Whom to worship- God or Karma?

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

Aumji, no one has answered, so let me try.

 

>

> 1- What is law of Karma? is it merely a mathematical formula of 2+2=4

 

No. If it were so simple, people would have beaten the system by now. 2+2 is not

4, it can be anything.

 

 

> 2- should a sadhaka expect god to interfere in his Karma ?

 

After some thought, I have come to think that one should not expect *any* help

in ones Karma. If one still gets it, its a blessing, but none should be

expected.

 

This gives a very liberating feeling- rather than constantly worrying about

pleasing this God or that, going to temples asking for help, one is left free to

face ones Karma. It also gives the thought,, that no matter how bad the external

circumstances are, they will have no effect on our Sadhna, as our Spiritual

progess is not tied to our Karmic state.

 

love,

s

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

> , " Jini " <senthil_sym@> wrote:

 

> In fact i was about to come to shakti, and you mentioned it. Shakti >has

created the universe, she runs the universe, and she destroys the >universe.

Saturn, Rahu, Kaal etc are her tools !and tools do not >disobey the master.

 

Aumji, the problem with this is: Adi Shakti is so high, her vision is so long,

that her view maybe useless to us. If I am in trouble now, how does it help me

that in a million years everyone will become enlightened, Earth will become

heaven etc etc, which is how Adi Shakti sees the Universe?

 

While it is true all Karma is done by Shakti, to me, this seems like dodging the

issue- the problem still remains: How do I deal with the Law of Karma today,

when it maybe causing problems in my spiritual life?

 

To give an example, once the allies smashed through Hitlers defences in France,

a General sitting in his desk might have thought " The War is over now, we will

eventually win " . While this is true, it doesnt help the soldier on the ground,

who maybe suffering from shortage of food, ammunition, medicine(which is what

actually happened). Telling the soldier that we are winning the war is of no

help to his daily problems!

 

The advice you give to the General will be different to the one you give to the

soldier.

So how do we, the soldiers in the trenches, deal with the battle of Karma?

 

love,

s

[Guest guest]

Pranam Shanji,

 

If Karma is responsible for everything in present Life, does this not imply LIFE

IS PREDETERMINED? I feel it is not the whole!

 

Does the KARMA created in Present life cycle have any impact on the present life

or its just deposited for our future births?

 

Great Saints like Paramahamsa, didnot want God to interfer and help, just becoz

they wanted to spendout thier Bad Karmas - Shakshi Bava?

 

Isn't FREEWILL an interference of GOD? a chance to create Good or Bad Karma?

 

Luv

[Guest guest]

, " Jini " <senthil_sym wrote:

>

>

>

> Pranam Shanji,

>

> If Karma is responsible for everything in present Life, does this not >imply

LIFE IS PREDETERMINED? I feel it is not the whole!

 

Senthilji, Karma not only means what we did in last life, but also what we are

doing in this life. We can use this lifes Karma(action) to offset some of last

lifes Karma(result of actions).

 

But at the end, it doesnt matter- we are still bound by the law of action &

reaction, the law of causality.

 

luv,

s

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

 

> So how do we, the soldiers in the trenches, deal with the battle of Karma?

 

 

This statement brought the discussion back to Square One .

 

 

aum

[Guest guest]

Karma is 'that which is done', it can be work, profession and duty; all

activities done by the body/kaayika, speech/vaachika and mind/manasa are karmas

only. Karma is an action that binds one to samsara/transmigratory existence.

 

Karma with the potential to produce its fruits are of three types: sanchita

karma/accumulated over several lives, praarabdha karma/those in the accumulated

karma that has begun to bear fruits in this life and aagaami karma/being

performed now and in future.

 

The effects of karmas done in one life cannot be expected to be exhausted in

that life itself. Hence, punarjanma/rebirth.

 

Jnana or spiritual wisdom resulting in the realization of ones's nature as the

immortal soul, destroys sanchitakarma completely and makes agamikarma incapable

of producing its results even as a burnt seed cannot sprout. However,

praarabdhakarma, since it has already started giving its results, has got to be

exhausted only through experiencing it.

 

Hari Om.

 

Thimmappa M S.

 

 

 

 

>

> Senthilji, Karma not only means what we did in last life, but also what we are

doing in this life. We can use this lifes Karma(action) to offset some of last

lifes Karma(result of actions).

>

> But at the end, it doesnt matter- we are still bound by the law of action &

reaction, the law of causality.

>

> luv,

> s

>

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

> This statement brought the discussion back to Square One .

 

Last night, in a discussion with a friend, another point came up.

 

We are like actors in a play, as many wise people have said. So we should just

live like ones. If its our role to be sad, thats what we should do completely.

If its our role to be rich & arrogant, that should be done thoroughly as well.

 

Asking God for help is like an actor trying to change the script- we were given

the option if we want to act or not, but once we choose, we are stuck with the

directors script.

 

People ask why bollywood movies have so many songs? There is a reason for that-

from the ancient times, plays were chosen to balance all our Gunas/Doshas(in

Ayurvedic terms) at the mental level. For this, plays had to have all the

emotions- love, anger, shame, disgust etc. Thats why you had a villain who was

magficently evil, hero/heroine crazy in love, singing songs all over the place,

injustice, fighting. This way all the emotions were balanced. If someone had too

much of 1 emotions(say anger), the play would help balance it. In ancient India,

plays were not just cheap entertainment, but yet another source of spiritual

growth.

 

In this play that is the world, a similar game rules. Thats why I dont like the

Kaliyuga theory- everyone is evil now, but they were good in ancient times etc

etc. If everyone was good in some mythical past, then there would have been no

reason for society, & such a society would have collapsed.

 

Instead, the play always had its melodrama-its villains, its heros, ite

beautiful heroines. The increase of bad in the world makes the good shine even

better. Injustice in the world makes our will stronger. It shows us what is

wrong, & what is right.

 

A Christian mystic(who also practiced Yoga) was aked why we come down to Earth.

He said that in higher planes, there is only light & love, but the beings there

dont appreciate what they have. By coming to Earth, the soul gets a better

understanding of Gods beauty.

 

Only a starving person can appreciate the value of food. Only someone lost in a

desert understands the value of 1 drop of water. Only a soul that has seen pain

& misery in this world can understand the value of Gods Love & Beauty. Thats why

the Souls who go from Earth to the Beyond, are higher than the Gods who only

live in the higher worlds. These souls are the ones who truly understand the

Beauty of God, which is why they are closer to God than the Angels/Gods who live

in heaven. Since they dont understand pain, dont know what Love is either.

 

Every pain, every misery in this world, is a stark reminder to us how much we

are missing my moving away from God.

 

So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama,

fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law,

inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by

someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it?

Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till

then, enjoy the play!

 

luv,

shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

>

 

> So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama,

fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law,

inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by

someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it?

Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till

then, enjoy the play!

>

> luv,

> shantnu

>

 

 

I think this is quite fascinating way to look at Law of Karma

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

For the past few days many members have raised the question whether to worship

karma or God, one should understand that the karma is not created by god .The

karma is of two kinds one is the prarabtha karma and the karma in this birth is

Sanjeetha karma. Praraptha karma is derived from the previous birth and the

other is in this birth So one has to do the karma with Karma yoga as difined by

Lord Krishna in Bagavath Geetha. You are able to fulfil the karmas in the right

direction  as directed by Lord Krishna. Then leave it to him He is the Only one

the super power inthe universe to take care of you. He knows what to be done and

to be given to his Bakthas . So one has to worship Only God and God alone.

 Hari Om

 

 On Wed, 10/3/10, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

 

aumji <no_reply >

 

 

 

 

@ s.com, shanracer <no_reply@.. .> wrote:

> So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama,

fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a

[Guest guest]

> Asking God for help is like an actor trying to change the script- we were

given the option if we want to act or not, but once we choose, we are stuck with

the directors script.

> So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama,

fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law,

inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by

someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it?

Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till

then, enjoy the play!

>

> luv,

> shantnu

>

 

Revered ShantanuJi,

From your post, Again i feel its a PREDETERMINED life. If someone has written

the script and we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need

to just enjoy it rather fighting it!

Choosing of character - again is it our will or even that is choosen by our past

karma?

 

In this case why did Paramahamsa, Aurobinda, Osho, Patanjali, Jesus preached us

- Did we not understand why they did so? or is it becoz that was their cast in

the whole Drama? Even then why did the script writter had such characters?

LUV.

[Guest guest]

, umashankar krishnamoorthy <sk_umashankar

wrote:

>

> Praraptha karma is derived from the previous birth and the other is in this

birth So one has to do the karma with Karma yoga as difined by Lord Krishna in

Bagavath Geetha. You are able to fulfil the karmas in the right direction  as

directed by Lord Krishna. Then leave it to him He is the Only one the super

power inthe universe to take care of you. He knows what to be done and to be

given to his Bakthas . So one has to worship Only God and God alone.

>  Hari Om

 

Pranam Umashankar Ji,

So can we take it like this as said in Geetha.( also as discussed by

Shantanuji), Due to Praraptha Karma we take birth with a karma to be done ( a

sort of pre determined life ). So after birth its our duty to go by Karma, adn

leave it to Krishna ( as said in Geetha ), so WHAT IS THE USE OF PRAYING /

WORSHIPING HIM ( KRISHNA ) AS HE SAYS JUST DO YOUR DUTIES ( KARMA ) AND LEAVE

THE REST TO ME I WILL TAKE CARE.

ShantanuJi raised a fantastic thought provoking question.

Luv.

[Guest guest]

we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need to just enjoy it

rather fighting it!

 

Senthil ji,

 

pranam.

 

Agree with you. I strongly feel that everything is predetermined. It seems but

there is nothing like free will. We all are puppets in the hands of almighty and

all the characters as they are programmed have to perform accordingly. In the

sequence of performing, whenever we associate anything with our ego--then it

becomes a karma to yield its result and whenever we perform taking it as a

duty-- it doesnot bind us in karma cycle.

 

 

so hum...

[Guest guest]

so WHAT IS THE USE OF PRAYING / WORSHIPING HIM ( KRISHNA ) AS HE SAYS JUST DO

YOUR DUTIES ( KARMA ) AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME I WILL TAKE CARE.

> ShantanuJi raised a fantastic thought provoking question.

> Luv.

>

 

becoz by worshiping you can do your duties 100% and and in true sense and then

only Shri Krshna will take care .

 

 

so hum...

[Guest guest]

>

> becoz by worshiping you can do your duties 100% and and in true sense and then

only Shri Krshna will take care .

>

>

> so hum...

>

Pranam So Hum ji,

So you mean to say God does interfere in our Karma? Could you pls elobrate.

LUV.

[Guest guest]

> we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need to just enjoy

it rather fighting it!

>

 

HARE RAM, HARE KRISHNA

 

THANKS TO ALL THE SADHAKAS FOR GREAT SATSANG

 

 

Even we know that we are the actors and our role is predetermined, we can not

enjoy as we are loaded with vikars. Though it is the begining that it should be

in our rememberance (SMRITI) all the time that everybody is playing his role and

every role has speciality perhaps we will start dissolving our ego , hatred and

jeoulous etc.

 

We have free will also we do not.

 

Even when you will be with the God, you will have free will to enter in the

world of illusion.

 

HARE RAM, HARE RAM, RAM RAM, HARE HARE, HARE KRISHNA, HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA

KRISHNA, HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

> So you mean to say God does interfere in our Karma? Could you pls elobrate.

> LUV.

>

 

Pranam,

i think, as i said in my earlier post on same topic, God is well above anything,

including karmas. Karmas are governed by the God and it is even ridiculous to

think of worshiping karmas insted of God. God better knows what fruit to give

for a particular kind of karma. In geeta thats why he has clearly advised not to

think about the fruit of karmas, and to just perform our duty with total

devotion. Its becoz we are not mature enough to even think of the fruit of our

karmas and act accordingly. Yes, God interfere in our karmas whenever he wishes

to do so. Moreover we generally think of our past recent lives and mostly with

our present life karmas. But we have lived endless no of lives and only He knows

what endless kinds of karmas we have accumulated.

One more thing, we start thinking of the karmas only when we witness something

which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is God as he has

given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and try to come

close to Him.

 

regards

 

so hum...

[Guest guest]

> One more thing, we start thinking of the karmas only when we witness something

which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is God as he has

given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and try to come

close to Him.

>

> regards

>

> so hum...

>

 

Respected So Hum ji,

Pranam.

In this dicussion no one is trying to say/state Karma is superior to God!

Due to the Law of Karma / Karmic Chain many people had obstacles in their

spiritual journey. Something like what i discussed quiet a long back, Even

though we are all so fond of Moksha why are we afraid of Death?

Just to clarify, how much does our prayers/worship/meditation cleans up the

accumulated Karmas we have in stock.

 

In no way i can compare with me to Paramahamsa, but still atleast for argument

sake, i donot have that maturity to be as Shakshi Bava, and i donot have

maturity not to ask God why am i in this state, what wrong did i do to be in

this state of suffering?

 

Wonderfully said by you sir, we start thinking of the karmas only when we

witness something which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is

God as he has given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and

try to come close to Him.,

but again when i suffer or i am in pain i feel like, God is not interfering in

my karmic cycle ( i understand it is childish to think so )

Thank you So HumJi.

[Guest guest]

> HARE RAM, HARE KRISHNA

 

Namaste all,

 

in our old discussion of whether God interferes in our Karma or not, another

point came to mind.

 

In the Gita, Krishna gives an option- either choose my huge army(power &

benefits of material world), or choose me. If you choose me, I will not fight or

help you in any way.

 

Every Duryodhan,(who is most people nowdays) always chooses the army. Only a

rare Arjuna chooses krishna. Yet Arjuna knows that he will get no help from

Krishna.

 

It is clear that if we choose God, we should help no help from him, no matter

how bad the circumstances are.

 

The army of Duryodhan always loses, yet Arjuna also has to suffer a lot in the

war. We should also expect to suffer in this war, yet with the full confidence

that we will finally win as we have Krishna with us.

 

love,

s

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

 

>

> in our old discussion of whether God interferes in our Karma or not, another

point came to mind.

>

> In the Gita, Krishna gives an option- either choose my huge army(power &

benefits of material world), or choose me. If you choose me, I will not fight or

help you in any way.

 

 

Well that is really a wonderful point you brought forward. That also solves the

mystery of Karma a little bit.

 

Can we say that Krishna gave a choice to Both Arjuna and duryodhana. With the

help of their free will, they chose one of the option. After that choice, the

law of Karma and energies of Universe take care of the option and God watches

the game as Sakshi.

 

For example Duryodhna selected the army and god gave it. Later when Duryodhana

found that army was useless and was dying, even if he would have worshipped

krishna to change course of the war and change the results of his choice,

Krishna would not interefere !

 

Is this not working in our life ? we are making some choices and god grants us

but later does not interfere into this ?

 

What do our wise sadhaka have to say on this viewpoint ? some thing to add or

remove ??

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

> Is this not working in our life ? we are making some choices and god >grants

us but later does not interfere into this ?

 

Aumji, I would like to add that: We dont even make the choices, are they are

made by our current mental/spiritual level.

 

Theres no way an angry, arrogant person like Duryodhan could have chosen

Krishna, so in practice, he never had an option.

 

The only free will we have is to raise our spiritual level, so we can make the

right decisions. Rather, God takes decisions through us, based on our current

spiritual level.

 

love,

shantnu