Whom to worship- God or Karma?

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I think it is wrong to take a totally fatalist view brushing aside the grace of

God or Guru. I do not to the theory that God does not interfere with

the play of karma. It requires so much of a faith and devotion on our part to

seek God's intervention who out of His endless compassion may seek to deflect

the path of karma. In a way, karma is also the route through which God bestows

His grace. You grow stronger with adversity; a truly spiritual person never

seeks of the comforts but the strength to face and get better of challenges. It

is by undergoing the suffering for your karma, that you expiate your sins and

get release from the cycle of birth and death.

 

 

ulaganathan p

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

shanracer <no_reply >

 

Sat, 6 March, 2010 4:26:00 AM

Whom to worship- God or Karma?

 

 

Namaste,

 

A friend(who was once very religious) passed through great personal tragedy. We

all told him that its Karma, how even God doesnt even interfere with our Karma.

 

But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma? After all, if we get

no help from God, why waste time worshipping him/her?

 

I agree in principle with what he says. When everything is going ok in your

life, its easy to say " We should worship God for what he is, not expecting

anything in return " etc etc, but in times of great personal tragedy or pain,

everyone loses hope. Even Christ, for one second, said " Lord why have you

forsaken me? " before remembering who he was.

 

So why should we worship God? Why not, like the Buddhists, say there is no God,

only the Law of Karma, & our only goal is to extiniguish our mind into the void?

Buddhists quietly do their Karma, while preparing to merge their mind into the

void. That way, they dont have to blame some God for their troubles. Is this way

superior to the Hindu path?

 

love,

Shantnu

 

 

 

 

 

Your Mail works best with the New Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!

http://downloads./in/internetexplorer/

 

 

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> A friend(who was once very religious) passed through great personal tragedy.

We all told him that its Karma, how even God doesnt even interfere with our

Karma.

>

> But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma? After all, if we get

no help from God, why waste time worshipping him/her?

>

 

 

Really great Question !

 

and this question has haunted the minds of common people as well as sadhakas.

This also raises some very serious question which need to be analysed and

answered.

 

1- Does/can God interfere in the Karma results ?

 

2- If not does god care to interefere in karma of those who are seriously on the

path of Truth, and are down by Karma. Here if the sadhaka is not saved, he may

even leave the path.

 

3- Or if Karma itself is the system of God, should he not remove the bad karma

of sadhaka ?

 

4- Why should a serious sadhaka expect God to change his Karma ? will it be a

correct approach ?

 

5- If we see at our scriptures, God has in the past interfered into the karma.

Many significant examples are from Mahabharata. First when Draupadi was saved

from certain disrobing. Secondly when Krishna hid the sun, to enable Arjuna

kill Jayadrath. But the best example is bringing the dead child of Uttra back

to life, after he was killed by Ashwatthama.

 

6- Why does god interefere into someone's karma and someone's not.

 

7- Can grace of God dilute the result of bad karma ?

 

8- Or we have to suffer our karma and there is no way out. (examples are

Paramhansa suffering from cancer in old age, shankracharya from serious ailment,

Swami Dayananda poisoned etc etc. If such great Souls/rishis could not dilute

their bad karma, what about us, common sadhakas ?

 

What is the way out ?

 

love

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I think:

 

1 Karmas are not superior to God, nothing can be. Therefore if God wishes, He

can easily interfere with karmas.

 

2 Leaving or not leaving the path of truth is also as per God's wish. He is

purifying every soul, He better knows what path a sadhak should follow and for

how much cycles of birth and death.

 

3 Yes, karma it self is the system governed by God, he better know the

definition of Good or Bad karmas as compared to little knowledge of earthly

creatures like us.

 

4 A serious sadhak do not wish God to change his karmas, rather he witness the

impact and try to do good karmas for future.

 

5 Correct, the answers as no 1,2,3 above can be related to this.

 

6 no 3 above can be related.

 

7 Definitely, without any doubt.

 

8 The best way out is told in Geeta. We have our duty to do the best as per our

knowledge to do and not to think about the outcome. He better knows what is GOOD

and what is actually BAD.

 

We can not examine God by using our limited wit and brain.....otherwise brain

will become God...isnot it?

 

Swami Ramsukhdasji said if we try to test God with our brain....God will fail.

 

Regards to all sadhakas.

 

 

so hum...

[Guest guest]

Respected Members,

 

Jai Gurudev,

 

Sadar Pranaam,

 

The questions has a very simple answer : Worship That which is Eternal and won't

ever diminish. One's Karma, be it good or bad, never stays forever. GOD is

Eternal and inside everyone, and hence we all worship Him, just to realize at

the end of our Karmic Bondage, that our Real Nature is Truly Divine and nothing

else, i.e. We Are, Were and Would Be Eternal, i.e. AHAM BRAHMASMI.

 

With Regards,

 

Prabhat

 

____ _________ __

 

shanracer <no_reply@ s.com>

 

 

 

 

A friend(who was once very religious) passed through great personal tragedy. We

all told him that its Karma, how even God doesnt even interfere with our Karma.

 

 

 

But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma? After all, if we get

no help from God, why waste time worshipping him/her?

[Guest guest]

Very good discussion.

 

I think the views of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa are the best suited to reply all

the questions.

 

When his disciples asked him to request Mother Kali to remove his illness and

pain, Paramhansa replied- I dont want to insult my Mother by asking her. Does

she not know I am suffering ? and if she knows it and allowing it, who am i to

give her suggestions ?

 

When such total surrender is achieved, Karma have no value left

 

my thoughts

 

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

>

>

>

> , shanracer <no_reply@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > A friend(who was once very religious) passed through great personal tragedy.

We all told him that its Karma, how even God doesnt even interfere with our

Karma.

> >

> > But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma? After all, if we

get no help from God, why waste time worshipping him/her?

> >

>

>

> Really great Question !

>

> and this question has haunted the minds of common people as well as sadhakas.

This also raises some very serious question which need to be analysed and

answered.

>

> 1- Does/can God interfere in the Karma results ?

>

> 2- If not does god care to interefere in karma of those who are seriously on

the path of Truth, and are down by Karma. Here if the sadhaka is not saved, he

may even leave the path.

>

> 3- Or if Karma itself is the system of God, should he not remove the bad karma

of sadhaka ?

>

> 4- Why should a serious sadhaka expect God to change his Karma ? will it be a

correct approach ?

>

> 5- If we see at our scriptures, God has in the past interfered into the karma.

Many significant examples are from Mahabharata. First when Draupadi was saved

from certain disrobing. Secondly when Krishna hid the sun, to enable Arjuna

kill Jayadrath. But the best example is bringing the dead child of Uttra back

to life, after he was killed by Ashwatthama.

>

> 6- Why does god interefere into someone's karma and someone's not.

>

> 7- Can grace of God dilute the result of bad karma ?

>

> 8- Or we have to suffer our karma and there is no way out. (examples are

Paramhansa suffering from cancer in old age, shankracharya from serious ailment,

Swami Dayananda poisoned etc etc. If such great Souls/rishis could not dilute

their bad karma, what about us, common sadhakas ?

>

> What is the way out ?

>

> love

>

> Aum

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sohumji, Apunathaji, Jayaji & Prabhatji.

 

Most of the answers sem to say we should trust God, surrender to God etc.

 

Like I said in my original post, all this is ok when your life is good. In good

times everyone becomes spiritual.

 

But what do you say to people who have suffered extreme personal tragedy- death

of children/near ones, financial ruin, false imprisonment?

 

Not all of us are Ramakrishna Paramhansas- we cant mainatain Sakshi Bhaav(State

of Witness) in times of extreme pain/misery.

 

So what do we say to people in extreme misery?

 

love,

Shantnu

 

 

, jaya_sundram <no_reply wrote:

>

> Very good discussion.

>

> I think the views of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa are the best suited

[Guest guest]

In bad times too, people turn to spirituality. Adversity comes as a wake up

call, shows the transient nature of this world and makes one seek and find the

only permanent thing there is, the Self or God.

 

I know a woman, a simple uneducated one , who had lost her 23 year old engineer

son in a freak accident. She was devoted to her son and I thought that this

tragedy will crush her.But she said that God had given her so much(she had a

newly built beautiful house, her son had got a good job etc) that she had

forgotten Him. Now that He had reminded her ,she would  devote the rest of her

life to remembering Him and would do nothing else. And that is what she did.

Rabindranath had seen the untimely death of many loved ones in his life time,

his wife,son daughter and grand child .In a poem he says --

 

The night the storm broke open my doors,

I did not know

that You had entered my home

and that the storm

was Your victory flag

 

In another poem he says-

 

Across the river of tears

On the far bank

I see Your door

 

Regards

Rwitoja

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 6/3/10, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

 

 

shanracer <no_reply >

Re: Whom to worship- God or Karma?

 

Saturday, 6 March, 2010, 18:37

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Sohumji, Apunathaji, Jayaji & Prabhatji.

 

Most of the answers sem to say we should trust God, surrender to God etc.

 

Like I said in my original post, all this is ok when your life is good. In good

times everyone becomes spiritual.

 

But what do you say to people who have suffered extreme personal tragedy- death

of children/near ones, financial ruin, false imprisonment?

 

Not all of us are Ramakrishna Paramhansas- we cant mainatain Sakshi Bhaav(State

of Witness) in times of extreme pain/misery.

 

So what do we say to people in extreme misery?

 

love,

Shantnu

 

@ s.com, jaya_sundram <no_reply@.. .> wrote:

>

> Very good discussion.

>

> I think the views of Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa are the best suited

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear shanji,

 

Everyone have dear friends, close friends in life. People say when we are in

trouble, friends does help us. But if they didn;t help us,Do we hate them for

that? We try to understand their sutiation and we live and still take them us

our close friends too.

 

This is what is happening with god, while we face the bad karma. Why not we just

accept the god even if he didn;t help us? I use to pray like this. As per god

duty, i have to suffer and enjoy with the karma. But while beliving god as my

mother, father and friend. They also will sure do the duty as a mother and

father and as a friend too, to help me during my bad karma and enjoy with me

during my good karma.

 

I don;t know it is wrong or right. But i am following this for sure.

 

Sarvamaatha.

[Guest guest]

one has to be very clear and specific about what is karma and who is god within.

 

When one realizes the god within is beyond karma effect because he is

enlightened by godliness.

 

The one who is not realized the true status of self existence is under the karma

effects, because whatever he will do is bound with material bonds.

 

Hence just worship a god is some form is not enough to get freed from karma but

the only way is to get realized and enjoy the life with unbounded karmas.

 

--- On Sat, 6/3/10, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

 

shanracer <no_reply >

Whom to worship- God or Karma?

 

Saturday, 6 March, 2010, 4:26 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

 

 

A friend(who was once very religious) passed through great personal tragedy. We

all told him that its Karma, how even God doesnt even interfere with our Karma.

 

 

 

But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma? After all, if we get

no help from God, why waste time worshipping him/her?

 

 

 

I agree in principle with what he says. When everything is going ok in your

life, its easy to say " We should worship God for what he is, not expecting

anything in return " etc etc, but in times of great personal tragedy or pain,

everyone loses hope. Even Christ, for one second, said " Lord why have you

forsaken me? " before remembering who he was.

 

 

 

So why should we worship God? Why not, like the Buddhists, say there is no God,

only the Law of Karma, & our only goal is to extiniguish our mind into the void?

Buddhists quietly do their Karma, while preparing to merge their mind into the

void. That way, they dont have to blame some God for their troubles. Is this way

superior to the Hindu path?

 

 

 

love,

 

Shantnu

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- On Sat, 6/3/10, aumji <no_reply > wrote:

 

 

 

1- Does/can God interfere in the Karma results ?

 

God in form interferes and helps while suffering from karma effects but the true

nature of god keeps the devotee  away from the karma effects.One can say

devotion is medication of karma pains and self realization is prevention of

karma effects.

 

2- If not does god care to interfere in karma of those who are seriously on the

path of Truth, and are down by Karma. Here if the sadhaka is not saved, he may

even leave the path.

 

One individual can overcome karma suffering by own limited power,but If he has

devotion the power of god in form helps him to tackle the karma suffering, yet

the karma may remain and vanish after duly suffered with.Those who are serious

in path of truth dont see now position but keep an eye for the future.Hence even

they suffer today by their past karmas, they get better life tomorrow,the next

birth.

 

3- Or if Karma itself is the system of God, should he not remove the bad karma

of sadhaka ?Karma is system of non-god. The god dont remove the karmas but

soften them or save from their ill effects.

 

 

 

4- Why should a serious sadhaka expect God to change his Karma ? will it be a

correct approach ?

 

No sadhakt should expect to change the karma, but should expect from god to have

him courages and with strength to face the karma effects.

5- If we see at our scriptures, God has in the past interfered into the karma.

Many significant examples are from Mahabharata. First when Draupadi was saved

from certain disrobing. Secondly when Krishna hid the sun, to enable Arjuna

kill Jayadrath. But the best example is bringing the dead child of Uttra back

to life, after he was killed by Ashwatthama.Draupadi was first suffered and then

saved. Arjan was about to enter the fire. The child was first dead.God dont

wipes the karma .He lets the devotee first suffer them and at the end when the

karma is at borderline and is about to make another ill effect , the god comes

and saves.

6- Why does god interefere into someone's karma and someone's not.

 

It depends on the intensity of the devotee to allow self in the hands of god.

7- Can grace of God dilute the result of bad karma ?

 

God helps to break the karma cycle. One has to suffer first and the same time be

in devotion.

8- Or we have to suffer our karma and there is no way out. (examples are

Paramhansa suffering from cancer in old age, shankracharya from serious ailment,

Swami Dayananda poisoned etc etc. If such great Souls/rishis could not dilute

their bad karma, what about us, common sadhakas ?

 

 

 

What is the way out ?The karma cycle gets created by non-godliness. When one

becomes flute of god, the music of life ,starts geting played by its own

tune.one has to let god work through him.By this further karma cycle gets

broken. But old effects has to be suffered and finished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

 

 

[Guest guest]

, rwitoja mukherjee <r_mukherj wrote:

>

> In bad times too, people turn to spirituality. Adversity comes as a >wake up

call, shows the transient nature of this world and makes one >seek and find the

only permanent thing there is, the Self or God.

 

Thanks Rwitojaji, thats a true point.

 

In the same situation, I have seen atheists become believers, while believers

became atheists.

 

Most people, in my experience, temporarily become spiritual, then go back to old

ways once their problem vanishes.

 

But is suffering really necessary to turn towards God?

 

love,

S

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

>

> Really great Question !

>

> and this question has haunted the minds of common people as well as

 

Good points Aumji. I cant even try to answer them, as even the Gods are confused

by them!

 

Perhaps we can start by asking who the final Master/Mistress of the Law of Karma

is?

 

Is it the 9 planets? I dont think so-I think they are more like managers of

Karma.

 

Is is Higher level Gods like Vishnu / Shiva? But they them self fall to Karma.

Shiva to hide as elephant when Saturn cast his eye on him, Krishna had to suffer

Karma of killing Bali by deceit when he himself was killed.

 

Is it the Nirguna Brahm-but by defintion, the Nirguna has no interest in our

manifest Universe?

 

Or is finally Adi Shakti? But she herself is a very high force, very near to

Nirguna Brahm/Parama Shiva. How does she manage the actual details of the law of

Karma?

 

love,

shantnu

[Guest guest]

, sarvamaatha <no_reply wrote:

>

> Dear shanji,

>

> Everyone have dear friends, close friends in life. People say when

 

Sarvamaathaji, is God really our friend? As God sometimes acts more as an enemy

than friend?

 

love,

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

Shanji,

 

How do you say god sometimes acts as a enemy? God might be testing us to give

the fruit. So their god have to act as a enemy which is for our own good. Then

why to take him as an enemy. God is our friend being an enemy too. I don;t know

i gave the right answer. If i was wrong do correct it. I have written what i

have in my mind.

 

Sarvamaatha.

 

 

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

> Sarvamaathaji, is God really our friend? As God sometimes acts more as an

enemy than friend?

>

> love,

> Shantnu

>

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

" But is suffering really necessary to turn towards God? "

 

Shantnu, this is another gem question you brought out.

 

This question has a deep connection with the theory of Karma and Fate. We

suffer due to our past karma and are purged, and become ready to advance on the

path of truth, if we do not create further bad karma.

 

There seems to be no end to this chain of Karma. We do a bad karma, we suffer,

we create more karma by trying to reconcile to our suffering, by creating

sufferings for others, or generating negative energies by our thinking or

sankalpa against the person who gave us pains, and thus the chain never ends.

 

The main reason to be bound by this chain is the basic Avidya. As long as we

are confined to the doer-ship of the karma, this chain can not be broken.

 

Buddhas ideas was thus, to detach ourselves from any karma and see ourselves as

a Sakshi only. It was simply a crude form of the Karma theory, already given by

Krishna. Krishna had already gone many steps ahead of Buddha and cleared many

doubts about Karma principle.

 

About Suffering, the views of Shri Aurobindo are quite interesting.

 

God is sure of his aim and success and cares not if he breaks his work a

hundered times to bring it nearer perfection. Patience is our first great

necessary lesson, but not the dull slowness to move of the timid, the skeptical,

the weary, the slothful, unambitious, or the weakling; a patience full of calm

and gathering strength which watches and prepares itself for the hour of swift

great strokes, few but enough to change destiny.

 

Wherefore God hammers so fierce at his world, tramples and kneads it like dough,

casts it so often into the blood bath and the red hell heat of the furnace ?

 

Because humanity in the mass is still a hard, crude and vile ore which will not

otherwise be smelted and shaped; as is his material, so is his method

 

Let it help transmute itself into nobler and purer metal, his ways with it will

be gentler and sweeter, much loftier and fairer its uses.

 

 

Let us think of Pandavas, had pandava not been hiding in jungles after Laksha

Griha, and had not been exiled for 12 years, we would not have the 1000s of

temples today spread across Himalayas, and other forests of the plains.

 

For Pandavas, it was sufferings, and for us it was a boon that we could find

such beautiful temples, still making us remember our past glory.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

, sarvamaatha <no_reply wrote:

> How do you say god sometimes acts as a enemy? God might be testing

 

Sarvmathaji, can we say God acts like a parent- usually indulging, but sometimes

very strict? Children think the parents are their enemy, but parents dont care

at all-they have a job to do, they will do it regardless?

 

luv,

s

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

>

 

> This question has a deep connection with the theory of Karma and

 

 

In continuin with our discussion, perhaps it would be wise to ask if we even

know what the law of karma is?

 

Most people assume it to be: Be good, & good will happen to you. But if the law

were so simple, humans, who are very smart at finding patterns & trying to

cheat, would have found a way to " game " the system, & everyone would have gotten

Moksha by now. But this does not happen, which shows the law of karma doesnt

work as we expect it to.

 

Many say " Surrender to God, & God will protect you " . Arjuna had surrendered to

God, yet his son was killed. Parikshit, who wasnt even born, was saved by

Krishna. How can someone not even born have surrendered to God?

 

I think the whole " surrender " to God is also a way to cheat the system, as in

I'll worship you, you save me. The Puranas have spread this myth a lot- spend

all ife being evil, at last time, take Gods name, & you will be saved! If it

were so simple.

 

Why was Krishna so selective in this case? I think maybe God doesnt care about

our surrender. It was Abhimanyus Karma to die, Parikshit to be saved. Krishna

was merely following the law of Karma. God continues to do what he does, when

his actions help us, we claim its our great " Bhakti " , yet when his actions go

against us, we complain!

 

Its like a Sadhu giving ashes to everyone. Out to 10 people who visit him, 2-3

will be healed, & they will proclaim loudly he has powers, when their healing is

just a coincidence, the Sadhu had no interest in healing them.

 

A related question is: Why do we expect God to interefere in our Karma? Its our

Karma, why should God or someone else take over it?

 

 

love,

 

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

How people react to adversity depends on their degree of advancement on the

spiritual path. A more advanced person will turn to God while another may be

angry, disappointed and turn away. But nobody can really turn away from God as

He is all there is. This person will continue experiencing the bitter and sweet

fruits of life till he gains enough maturity to turn inwards.

Regards

Rwitoja

 

--- On Sun, 7/3/10, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

 

 

shanracer <no_reply >

Re: Whom to worship- God or Karma?

 

Sunday, 7 March, 2010, 1:42

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ s.com, rwitoja mukherjee <r_mukherj@. ..> wrote:

>

> In bad times too, people turn to spirituality. Adversity comes as a >wake up

call, shows the transient nature of this world and makes one >seek and find the

only permanent thing there is, the Self or God.

 

Thanks Rwitojaji, thats a true point.

 

In the same situation, I have seen atheists become believers, while believers

became atheists.

 

Most people, in my experience, temporarily become spiritual, then go back to old

ways once their problem vanishes.

 

But is suffering really necessary to turn towards God?

 

love,

S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Shanji,

 

My belive them as my parents in my first place. Sometimes like when i enjoy some

jokes from TV or someone, At that time, my mind automatically goes to friends

place and later as parents. At the time of sutiation, my heart will tend to take

them as parents when it has to be and sometimes as friends when it has to be. I

also belive friends will also be strict when we do mistake. They surely try to

change us to go in good direction as like of parents do.

 

I do once thought that my dad was like enemy. But now i am grown up and i am

changed and can understand him a lot. Now i do not think like enemy. He is also

a friend to be now. It's all to an understandings. If i miss something. Let me

know.

 

Sarvamaathaji.

 

 

> Sarvmathaji, can we say God acts like a parent- usually indulging, but

sometimes very strict? Children think the parents are their enemy, but parents

dont care at all-they have a job to do, they will do it regardless?

>

> luv,

> s

>

[Guest guest]

When we are studying in school. Our teacher teaches us and give some homework.

Sometimes at home we are trying to slove ourselves, but when we could not slove

it. We need our parents to help out and either mom or dad will help us.

 

I belive it's the same as karma here. We try to tolerate the most. When we are

not able to,we pray god, we are relaxed and try to concentrate on how to tackle

it. It's how god help us during our karma.

 

Sarvamaatha.

 

 

>

> A related question is: Why do we expect God to interefere in our Karma? Its

our Karma, why should God or someone else take over it?

>

>

> love,

>

> Shantnu

>

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>

 

>

> In continuin with our discussion, perhaps it would be wise to ask if we even

know what the law of karma is?

>

 

Before answering and analysing such situations, we must first be sure of two

questions

 

1- What is law of Karma? is it merely a mathematical formula of 2+2=4 ?

 

2- should a sadhaka expect god to interfere in his Karma ?

[Guest guest]

Namaste all.

 

Happy Women's day !

 

The following verses are part of a prayer by Queen Kunti devi, mother of

Pandavas,

to Sri Krishna when He is about to depart from them after the war.

 

tathA paramahaMsAnAM munInAM amalAtmanAM

bhakti yoga vidhAnArthaM kathaM pazyema hi striyaH

 

How, then, can we " women folk " perceive You, Who have appeared in our midst just

to engender Devotion in the heart of Paramahamsas (those endowed with the Eye

distinguishing the material from the spiritual) who are given to contemplation

and pure of heart?

 

Salutations to Krishna born of Vasudeva and Devaki !

Salutations again and again to the Brahman of the Upanishads

Who has appeared in his sportive manifestation as the son of Nanda.

 

O Teacher of all the worlds ! Let Perils face us at every step; for it is in

dangerous situations that we feel the presence of you, whose vision bestows

freedom from rebirth. 1

 

No one can understand the real intentions of Your sportive actions when You

simulate the ways of men in Your incarnations. None is friendly or inimical to

You. You come only to redeem Jivas and even the destruction of so called enemies

is only to bless them and give them salvation thereby.

 

Jaya Sri Radhe!

 

> How people react to adversity depends on their degree of advancement on the

spiritual path.

[Guest guest]

Pranam Aumji, Shanji, and all other respected Sadhaks.

Wonderfull satsung going on.

From my point of view i would like to add a few questions/details.

 

If Karma is the cause of all happenings, who is the author/authority of Karma,

is there someone other than God who controlls it? or did God creat this system

even applicable to him aswell? Did God give a partial rights to the 9 planets to

influence the Karma?

 

Next to understand Karma, if i do good / charity will this have a good impact on

the next birth or will it have an adverse effect? to explain this, if a person -

philanthropist makes charitable donations intended to well-being of poor and

deserved, then will he in his next birth have more wealth to do the same thing

or ...will he give birth to some thing that is not related?

 

So Karma is such a complex system to understand or manipulate.

 

Can we opine like Mother SHAKTHI is the author / uthority of Karma., as without

ADHI SHAKTHI Shiva was just a Sava? So Mother SHAKTHI is the energy that made

SHIVA, and the Universe?

 

How many Purana or Literature states about SHAKTHI was influenced by Saturn? or

by the Planets? - i haven't heard so. ( pls correct i may be wrong as i have

very very little knowledge of Puranas and Literature ).

 

So when does Adhisakthi / God interfere in the chain of Karma? Is it during the

progress of Life or during our stay in differnt Astral planes?

 

Thought provoking Satsang. Thank you Revered ShanJi, AumJi for enkindly us.

 

 

 

> But then, he replied, why shouldnt we just worship Karma?

> Shantnu

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Shantanu ji,

 

Jai Gurudev,

 

Sadar Pranaam,

 

We all have taken birth to learn from life lessons (based on our Karmic

backlogs) to go beyond pain and pleasure to obtain the sanidhya of the Supreme.

Nothing is permanent, neither pain nor pleasure. We suffer because of our own

past mistakes. We feel happy because of our own good actions. Both of them are

fleeting. Realizing this truth takes us towards Eternal Bliss.

 

With Regards,

 

Prabhat

 

--- On Sat, 6/3/10, shanracer <no_reply > wrote:

 

shanracer <no_reply >

 

Most of the answers sem to say we should trust God, surrender to God etc.

But what do you say to people who have suffered extreme personal tragedy- death

of children/near ones, financial ruin, false imprisonment?

 

Not all of us are Ramakrishna Paramhansas- we cant mainatain Sakshi Bhaav(State

of Witness) in times of extreme pain/misery.

[Guest guest]

, " Jini " <senthil_sym wrote:

 

 

> How many Purana or Literature states about SHAKTHI was influenced by Saturn?

or by the Planets? - i haven't heard so. ( pls correct i may be wrong as i have

very very little knowledge of Puranas and Literature ).

>

 

 

Thanks senthil for your Ahuti in this Yagya of satsang.

 

In fact i was about to come to shakti, and you mentioned it. Shakti has created

the universe, she runs the universe, and she destroys the universe. Saturn,

Rahu, Kaal etc are her tools !and tools do not disobey the master.

 

Shakti's role was even accepted by great Rishi Shri Shankracharya, who was

otherwise a great advocate of Advaita.

 

The Question still remains, as should a serious Sadhka expect God to interfere

in his karma ? Example of Paramhansa Ramakrishna goes against it, as he refused

to even tell kali to remove his sufferings.

 

What we ask from God or ask him to interefere may be logically correct, in

view of our present matrix of mind and body. But that may not be necessary, if

we watch ourselves from a little above, and when God sees us from beyond the

time our demands, may look like a childs naggings to him.

 

I will cite one example. My late father's guruji, Shri Paramananda is a

great soul of the era. Contrary to his caliber on Vedanta, he has the least

number of disciples in comparison to other equivalent saints - no wonder !

 

Saint Parmananda was given place for his Ashram in our area by a particular

ethnic group and they used to give him donations and celebrated his birthday

with great pomp and show. Since the community was a business oriented one,

there was no shortage of funds for any function of swamiji.

 

Once, one person from the community (and a great donor) was caught by police

for selling fake drugs. So all the community members approached swamiji and

asked him to talk to senior police officers, who were his disciples, to tone

down the charges and let him be released.

 

Swamiji became very stern and told them - Look children if that person was

indeed selling fake drugs, he must be punished by the law, because it is a big

crime to play with the health of innocent people. If he has been arrested

wrongly, I will pray god to help him in the court and be released. BUT I WILL

NOT INTEREFERE IN POLICE INVESTIGATIONS.

 

The community tried their best, but swamiji remained stern. The person got

entangled into a network of fake drug dealers.

 

The community was so angry with Swamiji that they did not celebrate his birthday

that year and stopped all donations.

 

Swamiji still unmoved, left the Ashram and went to another area.

 

Now this example can we compare with law of Karma ? God is far above swamiji and

knows better when we should suffer and when we should be rewarded.

 

For a serious sadhaka, the game of Karma and its results becomes more

complex, because good karmas by him are not given results and bad Karma of many

births are brought forward to be killed.

 

 

Aum