Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , aumji <no_reply wrote: Aumji, no one has answered, so let me try. > > 1- What is law of Karma? is it merely a mathematical formula of 2+2=4 No. If it were so simple, people would have beaten the system by now. 2+2 is not 4, it can be anything. > 2- should a sadhaka expect god to interfere in his Karma ? After some thought, I have come to think that one should not expect *any* help in ones Karma. If one still gets it, its a blessing, but none should be expected. This gives a very liberating feeling- rather than constantly worrying about pleasing this God or that, going to temples asking for help, one is left free to face ones Karma. It also gives the thought,, that no matter how bad the external circumstances are, they will have no effect on our Sadhna, as our Spiritual progess is not tied to our Karmic state. love, s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , aumji <no_reply wrote: > , " Jini " <senthil_sym@> wrote: > In fact i was about to come to shakti, and you mentioned it. Shakti >has created the universe, she runs the universe, and she destroys the >universe. Saturn, Rahu, Kaal etc are her tools !and tools do not >disobey the master. Aumji, the problem with this is: Adi Shakti is so high, her vision is so long, that her view maybe useless to us. If I am in trouble now, how does it help me that in a million years everyone will become enlightened, Earth will become heaven etc etc, which is how Adi Shakti sees the Universe? While it is true all Karma is done by Shakti, to me, this seems like dodging the issue- the problem still remains: How do I deal with the Law of Karma today, when it maybe causing problems in my spiritual life? To give an example, once the allies smashed through Hitlers defences in France, a General sitting in his desk might have thought " The War is over now, we will eventually win " . While this is true, it doesnt help the soldier on the ground, who maybe suffering from shortage of food, ammunition, medicine(which is what actually happened). Telling the soldier that we are winning the war is of no help to his daily problems! The advice you give to the General will be different to the one you give to the soldier. So how do we, the soldiers in the trenches, deal with the battle of Karma? love, s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Pranam Shanji, If Karma is responsible for everything in present Life, does this not imply LIFE IS PREDETERMINED? I feel it is not the whole! Does the KARMA created in Present life cycle have any impact on the present life or its just deposited for our future births? Great Saints like Paramahamsa, didnot want God to interfer and help, just becoz they wanted to spendout thier Bad Karmas - Shakshi Bava? Isn't FREEWILL an interference of GOD? a chance to create Good or Bad Karma? Luv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , " Jini " <senthil_sym wrote: > > > > Pranam Shanji, > > If Karma is responsible for everything in present Life, does this not >imply LIFE IS PREDETERMINED? I feel it is not the whole! Senthilji, Karma not only means what we did in last life, but also what we are doing in this life. We can use this lifes Karma(action) to offset some of last lifes Karma(result of actions). But at the end, it doesnt matter- we are still bound by the law of action & reaction, the law of causality. luv, s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > So how do we, the soldiers in the trenches, deal with the battle of Karma? This statement brought the discussion back to Square One . aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 Karma is 'that which is done', it can be work, profession and duty; all activities done by the body/kaayika, speech/vaachika and mind/manasa are karmas only. Karma is an action that binds one to samsara/transmigratory existence. Karma with the potential to produce its fruits are of three types: sanchita karma/accumulated over several lives, praarabdha karma/those in the accumulated karma that has begun to bear fruits in this life and aagaami karma/being performed now and in future. The effects of karmas done in one life cannot be expected to be exhausted in that life itself. Hence, punarjanma/rebirth. Jnana or spiritual wisdom resulting in the realization of ones's nature as the immortal soul, destroys sanchitakarma completely and makes agamikarma incapable of producing its results even as a burnt seed cannot sprout. However, praarabdhakarma, since it has already started giving its results, has got to be exhausted only through experiencing it. Hari Om. Thimmappa M S. > > Senthilji, Karma not only means what we did in last life, but also what we are doing in this life. We can use this lifes Karma(action) to offset some of last lifes Karma(result of actions). > > But at the end, it doesnt matter- we are still bound by the law of action & reaction, the law of causality. > > luv, > s > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 , aumji <no_reply wrote: > This statement brought the discussion back to Square One . Last night, in a discussion with a friend, another point came up. We are like actors in a play, as many wise people have said. So we should just live like ones. If its our role to be sad, thats what we should do completely. If its our role to be rich & arrogant, that should be done thoroughly as well. Asking God for help is like an actor trying to change the script- we were given the option if we want to act or not, but once we choose, we are stuck with the directors script. People ask why bollywood movies have so many songs? There is a reason for that- from the ancient times, plays were chosen to balance all our Gunas/Doshas(in Ayurvedic terms) at the mental level. For this, plays had to have all the emotions- love, anger, shame, disgust etc. Thats why you had a villain who was magficently evil, hero/heroine crazy in love, singing songs all over the place, injustice, fighting. This way all the emotions were balanced. If someone had too much of 1 emotions(say anger), the play would help balance it. In ancient India, plays were not just cheap entertainment, but yet another source of spiritual growth. In this play that is the world, a similar game rules. Thats why I dont like the Kaliyuga theory- everyone is evil now, but they were good in ancient times etc etc. If everyone was good in some mythical past, then there would have been no reason for society, & such a society would have collapsed. Instead, the play always had its melodrama-its villains, its heros, ite beautiful heroines. The increase of bad in the world makes the good shine even better. Injustice in the world makes our will stronger. It shows us what is wrong, & what is right. A Christian mystic(who also practiced Yoga) was aked why we come down to Earth. He said that in higher planes, there is only light & love, but the beings there dont appreciate what they have. By coming to Earth, the soul gets a better understanding of Gods beauty. Only a starving person can appreciate the value of food. Only someone lost in a desert understands the value of 1 drop of water. Only a soul that has seen pain & misery in this world can understand the value of Gods Love & Beauty. Thats why the Souls who go from Earth to the Beyond, are higher than the Gods who only live in the higher worlds. These souls are the ones who truly understand the Beauty of God, which is why they are closer to God than the Angels/Gods who live in heaven. Since they dont understand pain, dont know what Love is either. Every pain, every misery in this world, is a stark reminder to us how much we are missing my moving away from God. So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama, fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law, inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it? Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till then, enjoy the play! luv, shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > > So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama, fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law, inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it? Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till then, enjoy the play! > > luv, > shantnu > I think this is quite fascinating way to look at Law of Karma Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 For the past few days many members have raised the question whether to worship karma or God, one should understand that the karma is not created by god .The karma is of two kinds one is the prarabtha karma and the karma in this birth is Sanjeetha karma. Praraptha karma is derived from the previous birth and the other is in this birth So one has to do the karma with Karma yoga as difined by Lord Krishna in Bagavath Geetha. You are able to fulfil the karmas in the right direction as directed by Lord Krishna. Then leave it to him He is the Only one the super power inthe universe to take care of you. He knows what to be done and to be given to his Bakthas . So one has to worship Only God and God alone.  Hari Om  On Wed, 10/3/10, aumji <no_reply > wrote: aumji <no_reply > @ s.com, shanracer <no_reply@.. .> wrote: > So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama, fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 > Asking God for help is like an actor trying to change the script- we were given the option if we want to act or not, but once we choose, we are stuck with the directors script. > So what to do about misery? Accept it, accept our role in th Cosmic Drama, fulfill our roles as actors, accept that the Law of Karma is a lower Law, inferior to the Universal Will. Once we realise we are in a script written by someone else, for someone elses enjoyment, why waste time trying to fight it? Once our role is over, we will bow & leave, never to return again, but till then, enjoy the play! > > luv, > shantnu > Revered ShantanuJi, From your post, Again i feel its a PREDETERMINED life. If someone has written the script and we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need to just enjoy it rather fighting it! Choosing of character - again is it our will or even that is choosen by our past karma? In this case why did Paramahamsa, Aurobinda, Osho, Patanjali, Jesus preached us - Did we not understand why they did so? or is it becoz that was their cast in the whole Drama? Even then why did the script writter had such characters? LUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 , umashankar krishnamoorthy <sk_umashankar wrote: > > Praraptha karma is derived from the previous birth and the other is in this birth So one has to do the karma with Karma yoga as difined by Lord Krishna in Bagavath Geetha. You are able to fulfil the karmas in the right direction as directed by Lord Krishna. Then leave it to him He is the Only one the super power inthe universe to take care of you. He knows what to be done and to be given to his Bakthas . So one has to worship Only God and God alone. >  Hari Om Pranam Umashankar Ji, So can we take it like this as said in Geetha.( also as discussed by Shantanuji), Due to Praraptha Karma we take birth with a karma to be done ( a sort of pre determined life ). So after birth its our duty to go by Karma, adn leave it to Krishna ( as said in Geetha ), so WHAT IS THE USE OF PRAYING / WORSHIPING HIM ( KRISHNA ) AS HE SAYS JUST DO YOUR DUTIES ( KARMA ) AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME I WILL TAKE CARE. ShantanuJi raised a fantastic thought provoking question. Luv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need to just enjoy it rather fighting it! Senthil ji, pranam. Agree with you. I strongly feel that everything is predetermined. It seems but there is nothing like free will. We all are puppets in the hands of almighty and all the characters as they are programmed have to perform accordingly. In the sequence of performing, whenever we associate anything with our ego--then it becomes a karma to yield its result and whenever we perform taking it as a duty-- it doesnot bind us in karma cycle. so hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 so WHAT IS THE USE OF PRAYING / WORSHIPING HIM ( KRISHNA ) AS HE SAYS JUST DO YOUR DUTIES ( KARMA ) AND LEAVE THE REST TO ME I WILL TAKE CARE. > ShantanuJi raised a fantastic thought provoking question. > Luv. > becoz by worshiping you can do your duties 100% and and in true sense and then only Shri Krshna will take care . so hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 > > becoz by worshiping you can do your duties 100% and and in true sense and then only Shri Krshna will take care . > > > so hum... > Pranam So Hum ji, So you mean to say God does interfere in our Karma? Could you pls elobrate. LUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 > we are just acting our part, it is PREDETERMINDED! We then need to just enjoy it rather fighting it! > HARE RAM, HARE KRISHNA THANKS TO ALL THE SADHAKAS FOR GREAT SATSANG Even we know that we are the actors and our role is predetermined, we can not enjoy as we are loaded with vikars. Though it is the begining that it should be in our rememberance (SMRITI) all the time that everybody is playing his role and every role has speciality perhaps we will start dissolving our ego , hatred and jeoulous etc. We have free will also we do not. Even when you will be with the God, you will have free will to enter in the world of illusion. HARE RAM, HARE RAM, RAM RAM, HARE HARE, HARE KRISHNA, HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA, HARE HARE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 > So you mean to say God does interfere in our Karma? Could you pls elobrate. > LUV. > Pranam, i think, as i said in my earlier post on same topic, God is well above anything, including karmas. Karmas are governed by the God and it is even ridiculous to think of worshiping karmas insted of God. God better knows what fruit to give for a particular kind of karma. In geeta thats why he has clearly advised not to think about the fruit of karmas, and to just perform our duty with total devotion. Its becoz we are not mature enough to even think of the fruit of our karmas and act accordingly. Yes, God interfere in our karmas whenever he wishes to do so. Moreover we generally think of our past recent lives and mostly with our present life karmas. But we have lived endless no of lives and only He knows what endless kinds of karmas we have accumulated. One more thing, we start thinking of the karmas only when we witness something which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is God as he has given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and try to come close to Him. regards so hum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 > One more thing, we start thinking of the karmas only when we witness something which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is God as he has given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and try to come close to Him. > > regards > > so hum... > Respected So Hum ji, Pranam. In this dicussion no one is trying to say/state Karma is superior to God! Due to the Law of Karma / Karmic Chain many people had obstacles in their spiritual journey. Something like what i discussed quiet a long back, Even though we are all so fond of Moksha why are we afraid of Death? Just to clarify, how much does our prayers/worship/meditation cleans up the accumulated Karmas we have in stock. In no way i can compare with me to Paramahamsa, but still atleast for argument sake, i donot have that maturity to be as Shakshi Bava, and i donot have maturity not to ask God why am i in this state, what wrong did i do to be in this state of suffering? Wonderfully said by you sir, we start thinking of the karmas only when we witness something which is not accepted by our mind, but just think how nice is God as he has given us such a wonderful birth in which we can worship Him, and try to come close to Him., but again when i suffer or i am in pain i feel like, God is not interfering in my karmic cycle ( i understand it is childish to think so ) Thank you So HumJi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 > HARE RAM, HARE KRISHNA Namaste all, in our old discussion of whether God interferes in our Karma or not, another point came to mind. In the Gita, Krishna gives an option- either choose my huge army(power & benefits of material world), or choose me. If you choose me, I will not fight or help you in any way. Every Duryodhan,(who is most people nowdays) always chooses the army. Only a rare Arjuna chooses krishna. Yet Arjuna knows that he will get no help from Krishna. It is clear that if we choose God, we should help no help from him, no matter how bad the circumstances are. The army of Duryodhan always loses, yet Arjuna also has to suffer a lot in the war. We should also expect to suffer in this war, yet with the full confidence that we will finally win as we have Krishna with us. love, s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 , shanracer <no_reply wrote: > > in our old discussion of whether God interferes in our Karma or not, another point came to mind. > > In the Gita, Krishna gives an option- either choose my huge army(power & benefits of material world), or choose me. If you choose me, I will not fight or help you in any way. Well that is really a wonderful point you brought forward. That also solves the mystery of Karma a little bit. Can we say that Krishna gave a choice to Both Arjuna and duryodhana. With the help of their free will, they chose one of the option. After that choice, the law of Karma and energies of Universe take care of the option and God watches the game as Sakshi. For example Duryodhna selected the army and god gave it. Later when Duryodhana found that army was useless and was dying, even if he would have worshipped krishna to change course of the war and change the results of his choice, Krishna would not interefere ! Is this not working in our life ? we are making some choices and god grants us but later does not interfere into this ? What do our wise sadhaka have to say on this viewpoint ? some thing to add or remove ?? Aum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 , aumji <no_reply wrote: > Is this not working in our life ? we are making some choices and god >grants us but later does not interfere into this ? Aumji, I would like to add that: We dont even make the choices, are they are made by our current mental/spiritual level. Theres no way an angry, arrogant person like Duryodhan could have chosen Krishna, so in practice, he never had an option. The only free will we have is to raise our spiritual level, so we can make the right decisions. Rather, God takes decisions through us, based on our current spiritual level. love, shantnu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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