Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 Dear Narendra, Amma does not require anyone to worship her as God. She doesnt even require that anyone belive in her as anything. In fact, she says that people need to believe in themselves instead. I met and got ot know the people around Amma at the MA Center -- meaning ashram residents and also people who attend satsang at the center--before I met Amma. One thing I really liked was that everybody was different. They were at all levels of maturity and development. There was no pressure for everyone to be the same as everyone else, unless you count wearing white and even that is pretty loose. This helped me appreciate that Amma really does accept people as they are, where they are. It helped me respect her as a good spiritual teacher, not someone who was trying to manufacture a type of person. All of us have had experiences with other groups. Some still are quite involved with another spiritual group as well as with Amma. There is a video showing Amma hugging people from all different religions so apparently Amma loves us whether we're still involved with such and such a group or whether we have never had a clue about religion or spirituality. People are human and have their opinions, as you have been reading. Follow your heart. Be sincere in what you do and pay attention to what happens. Jai Ma! Aikya Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Hi All, > > I have been taking Amma's darshan on and off for the last 15 years now! In > the beginning I only went because my mom dragged me to the Ashram. But over > the last few years I have started taking my own spiritual practices very > seriously. I have now reached a stage where I am convinced that I need a > guru. And it is for this reason that I am writing in this forum. > > I have no doubt that Amma is a great soul. I cannot even begin to > understand Amma's greatness. But having said this, there are a few things > that bother me and I would like to have clarification from the senior > devotees on this forum. > > I have no issues in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru. But where I have an > issue is with worshipping Amma as a bhagavan. It's pretty clear when one > goes to any of the center's that the whole organization is based on Amma as > the center. I kinda feel that even if Amma is a avatara still the whole > organization should be based on Krishna or Devi as the center. I find it > very disturbing when I see people worshipping her, singing bhagan's about > amma, doing the pada puja etc as if she were Devi incarnate. > > But having said all this, I can also see the miracle and the unconditional > love that is Amma. I cannot even fathom what Amma must be like to hug > millions of people, and listen to their problems and help people for no > personal reason. Its quite mind boggling. So in the end I get really > confused. > > > > Can someone try to explain to me who is Amma? > > > > Thank you > > -Narendra > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 Did anyone else hear this about Amma's comments on the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata at the Boston retreat? I am only inquiring to know more about context and if this was an extended discussion, or only very brief answer to a question or two. P. Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > >>> they may not understand. > > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? > > > > About the swami's being rude to me, it doesn't directly concern me. However > it does reflect upon the quality of these swami's. One measure of how > spiritually advanced a person is to see the humility within the person. If > the swami is too busy to talk that's perfectly understandable, however when > they are rude that's not cool. I expect much higher standard's from swami's > as compared to us regular folks. > > > > In any case I am not here to talk trash about anyone. In such a case it's > only my loss. What started all this off was when Amma said that Bhagavatham > and Mahabharat are just stories. This is something she said in a public > forum - Boston retreat. I tried my best to get to the bottom of this > statement and therefore asked other swami's. No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > > > From whatever little Bhagavatham I have read, I have grown really fond of > it. Its pretty obvious to me that this is no " story " . Just reading this book > has changed my life. So when a great leader such as Amma said that > Bhgavatham is just a story, I had to get to the bottom of this. There are > only two possibilities. Amma is right in which case Bhagavatham is a story > or Amma is wrong in which case, I have no idea what the implications are if > Amma is wrong. > > > > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my great shock I > found that my merely questioning Amma's words automatically made me a > " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is completely anti-hindu. In Bhgavad > Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has on many occasions clearly stated that a > person must use his intelligence to the best of his abilities. At no point > is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his eyes and blindly follow > his guru. > > > > This statement by Amma has lead me to question why is it that her devotee's > consider her a devi. What is the spiritual backing of this movement? Why is > the whole organization centered one human being instead of Krishna. Why is > Amma worshipped as a devi instead of as a sad-guru. As someone has rightly > pointed out, the position of a sad-guru is even higher than that of Devi. > Therefore there is no insult in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru instead of as > devi. Since I could not directly question Amma, I thought of looking at the > next best thing, her direct disciples. I can understand Malayalam very well. > So I was listening to their conversations. 100% of their conversation was > extremely materialistic. When I tried to talk to them, no one tried to clear > my questions. I spoke with some of the other devotees there. I heard some > rather scary stories on how Amma said one thing during one meeting and the > exact opposite thing in the next meeting. At the same time I hear miracle > stories, how Amma cured some disease, how Amma helped them. I can also see > how Amma is helping millions of poor people. So this only caused more > confusion and therefore my emails on this forum. > > > > -Narendra > Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of > ckeniley2003 > Friday, July 20, 2007 3:23 PM > Ammachi > Re: A sincere question...,,some perspective > > > > To be more accurate, most people will not follow Amma, most people > will not feel drawn to going to Amma. Then, of those who come, nbot > all will get it, or spend enough time around Amma being quiet enough > to get it. If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > they may not understand. > > Personally, I have not noticed that the swamis spend time > with " pretty women " . that does not seem accurate to me. They do spend > a lot of time with Indian families though, and that is part of their > role. > > Peace, > Chris > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , > " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > You have solved your own problem. > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > that > > what I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > You don't require anyone else to clear your doubts. " Pretty > women " can > > distract even the most devoted when they see how many of them there > are > > " out there " !!! > > > > P. > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , > " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki@> wrote: > > > > > > Well I personally have had no " magical " experiences with Amma. I > have > > made > > > an honest attempt to talk to some of the swami's present. What > bothers > > me > > > greatly is to see the swami's spent inordinate amount of time > talking > > to > > > pretty women while completely ignoring me and my mom. And trust > me, I > > wasn't > > > rude to anyone. I asked some of the swami's about what the whole > > philosophy > > > of the organization is beyond " love " and hugging people. I am not > > trying to > > > down play the importance of love, but having faith in a person > without > > > knowledge is very dangerous. I found it very disconcerting that I > > wasn't > > > able to find anyone who was willing to explain my questions and > clear > > my > > > doubts. > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > that what > > > I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because > > > 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> ] On > > Behalf Of > > > Mary Beth Hayman > > > Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:40 AM > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > > > Re: A sincere question > > > > > > Here are Amma's words... > > > > > > " The Inner Mother, whose true nature is infinitude and silence, > > manifests > > > visibly through this body so that her children can have a glimpse > of > > the > > > Mother who is deep within. The body is powerful; it has the power > to > > express > > > > > > the infinite inner power. The reason this external Mother exists > is to > > help > > > you reach the Inner Mother, the Mother of the " Mind of minds. " The > > Inner > > > Mother has none of the external qualities. It is totally silent > and > > > attributeless in the " Mind of minds. " Silence is the language of > this > > Inner > > > Mother. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pranada S. " daughterpranada@ > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > > > >Re: A sincere question > > > >Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:50:06 -0400 > > > > > > > >Namah Shivaya, Narendra, > > > > > > > >I am not by any stretch of the imagination a " senior " member of > this > > > >forum, nor could I begin to speak to the Krishna story, but I can > > tell > > > >you that Amma has said that all of creation was Her guru. She > has > > > >also said that Her mother, Damayanti-amma, was Her guru in a > sense, > > > >because she inculcated Her with such attention to detail, > charity, > > and > > > >cleanliness. > > > > > > > >I also believe that Jesus Christ was an avatar. Yet if He had a > > guru, > > > >that knowledge has been lost to us. > > > > > > > >Whether or not a guru is present in the body, or named, does that > > > >change what is? > > > > > > > >Amma has been asked in the past why everyone is worshipping > Her. She > > > >answered that actually She is the one worshipping them. She > sees God > > > >within everyone and She bows down to that. > > > > > > > >When people first started to come to Amma, She tried to shoo them > > away > > > >and drive them off, but because of their deep love for Her, they > > could > > > >not stand to leave, so finally She relented and allowed them to > stay. > > > >I don't think that She is concerned with whether there is a large > > > >organization around Her. She has said that even if all Her > swamis > > > >were to leave the ashram, She would continue to do what She is > doing > > - > > > >to embrace, to help the suffering. > > > > > > > >She has also said that today people might call Her Devi, tomorrow > > they > > > >might call Her a devil. She doesn't care. > > > > > > > >Ultimately, I think that there is no substitute for witnessing, > > > >first-hand, Her physical presence and the transformation > within. I > > > >absolutely do believe that Amma is Devi, not because of what > anyone > > > >has told me, but because of my own feelings and experiences. > But I > > > >can't give that belief to anyone else. > > > > > > > >On the intellectual level, it is simply impossible to grasp what > Amma > > > >is. If we try only intellectually, we will come to false > conclusion > > > >after false conclusion, positive and negative alike. I think > that > > > >intellect and discernment are not to be abandoned, by any > stretch; > > > >only recognized as not the ultimate arbiter when it comes to the > > > >nature of a Satguru or avatar. > > > > > > > >I don't understand Amma at all; the more I try, the more I find > that > > > >She is unknowable. It is actually kind of a relief: She is not, > > > >cannot be, limited to any intellectual conception of Her that I > may > > > >come up with. > > > > > > > >Jai Ma, > > > >Pranada > > > > > > > > > > > >On 7/18/07, Narendra Kulkarni nkulki@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thank you for your response. I do agree with your point > that > > > >ultimately > > > > > only I can figure out who Amma is. Even if someone else tells > me > > who > > > >Amma > > > > > is, I still won't understand. > > > > > > > >[text snipped by moderator] > > > > > > ________ > > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! > > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 Blessings, I suppose I could go on an on with the topics brought up in this thread and I am still new to Amma but I did just want to share that even though I only had my first retreat and experience with Amma I found over all that everyone was open and welcoming. We are of course all human and can get lost in negative thoughts and feelings from time to time but around Amma's presence it seemed to me that if a negative thought or judgement came into my mind it seemed to leave as quickly as it came. As for worshipping Amma I can't really comment to much on that, again cause I'm new but it seems to me that Amma, being a self realized soul has merged with and become one with God/Goddess and is a physical representation of that Divine love and compassion. So by serving the satguru we are in fact serving God/Goddess. After all everything is God and nothing is seperate. Amma has never from what I've read, heard and experienced asked anything of anyone but to have an open heart. Through our own experiences Amma becomes a relfection of what we need in the moment. I must say that I was a bit suprised to hear someone in an email seeing anything what Amma teaches and does as requiring blind faith. Yes, having faith in anything one believes is important but I've never read nor heard Amma ever say to take something completely on blind faith without experiencing it. Amma seems to stress faith in one's self and learning through experience before deciding on something but even in the end if you choose to see otherwise or go else where Amma places no judgment on your choice. Of course everyone has a right to their own feelings and beliefs. As for me I follow my intuition and experiences and I felt unconditional love and compassion completely from both Amma and her Swamis. In Love and Light, Stacey _______________ http://newlivehotmail.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 What a great answer Stacy. I have been going to see Amma for about seven years and doing meditation for about three. One of the reasons I was attracted to Amma in the beginning was because I wasn't asked to join anything, pay anything or be part of some religion or group, Amma was all about giving and love - nothing else. That is the test of a truly enlightened and spiritual soul. In seven years I've spent a total of $180 on one retreat - which I didn't have to do. I could have learned the meditation and everything else for free. And once I donated money to the tsunami victims through Amma's organization of my own accord - that's all I ever spent. I think Amma is truly a mystery and a miracle. She runs an organization that raises and gives away millions of dollars - she asks for nothing yet receives much- she even has her Indian " store " around her to raise money in a totally non-coercive way. All this while spending most of her time hugging people - having a fourth grade education - and speaking only Malayalam. Plus she reaches people profoundly and changes lives. She certainly changed mine. How much more miracles can anyone want to see than all of that? Ammachi , " Stacey Rossignol " <Chamunda77 wrote: > > Blessings, > > I suppose I could go on an on with the topics brought up in this thread and > I am still new to Amma but I did just want to share that even though I only > had my first retreat and experience with Amma I found over all that everyone > was open and welcoming. We are of course all human and can get lost in > negative thoughts and feelings from time to time but around Amma's presence > it seemed to me that if a negative thought or judgement came into my mind it > seemed to leave as quickly as it came. > > As for worshipping Amma I can't really comment to much on that, again cause > I'm new but it seems to me that Amma, being a self realized soul has merged > with and become one with God/Goddess and is a physical representation of > that Divine love and compassion. So by serving the satguru we are in fact > serving God/Goddess. After all everything is God and nothing is seperate. > Amma has never from what I've read, heard and experienced asked anything of > anyone but to have an open heart. Through our own experiences Amma becomes > a relfection of what we need in the moment. > > I must say that I was a bit suprised to hear someone in an email seeing > anything what Amma teaches and does as requiring blind faith. Yes, having > faith in anything one believes is important but I've never read nor heard > Amma ever say to take something completely on blind faith without > experiencing it. Amma seems to stress faith in one's self and learning > through experience before deciding on something but even in the end if you > choose to see otherwise or go else where Amma places no judgment on your > choice. > > Of course everyone has a right to their own feelings and beliefs. As for me > I follow my intuition and experiences and I felt unconditional love and > compassion completely from both Amma and her Swamis. > > In Love and Light, > Stacey > > _______________ > http://newlivehotmail.com > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 Ok guys, I've been following this thread since the beginning and I have to admit it's been very engaging. We all have our our own questions and doubts, and they are all valid. We should respect where everyone is on the path, and do our best to help each other out in gaining spiritual knowledge whether Amma devotees or not. I have one thing to add while on the subject of Amma being a Deity or God/Goddess. Last November while at the Detroit retreat, my friend and I were talking about Amma while sitting about 20 feet in front of her. My friend was excitedly talking in my ear about how Amma is a Deity that has reincarnated. Right at that moment Amma, with someone on her lap, looked at me and gave me this huge smile as if she knew what was being said. I was just shocked! Also while in NYC last week, another friend was talking about how while in NYC she turns into Kali.....again she looked right at us with this fierce look. Either she knows everything and is just playing with us, or it is true that she is a Devi incarnate. My heart tells me the latter, but everyone is justified in their beliefs. Pretty cool tho, haha Madhurima Ammachi , " Darien Cabral " <cabral wrote: > > > What a great answer Stacy. I have been going to see Amma for about > seven years and doing meditation for about three. One of the reasons I > was attracted to Amma in the beginning was because I wasn't asked to > join anything, pay anything or be part of some religion or group, Amma > was all about giving and love - nothing else. That is the test of a > truly enlightened and spiritual soul. > > In seven years I've spent a total of $180 on one retreat - which I > didn't have to do. I could have learned the meditation and everything > else for free. And once I donated money to the tsunami victims through > Amma's organization of my own accord - that's all I ever spent. > > I think Amma is truly a mystery and a miracle. She runs an > organization that raises and gives away millions of dollars - she asks > for nothing yet receives much- she even has her Indian " store " around > her to raise money in a totally non-coercive way. All this while > spending most of her time hugging people - having a fourth grade > education - and speaking only Malayalam. Plus she reaches people > profoundly and changes lives. She certainly changed mine. How much > more miracles can anyone want to see than all of that? > > > > Ammachi , " Stacey Rossignol " <Chamunda77@> wrote: > > > > Blessings, > > > > I suppose I could go on an on with the topics brought up in this > thread and > > I am still new to Amma but I did just want to share that even though > I only > > had my first retreat and experience with Amma I found over all that > everyone > > was open and welcoming. We are of course all human and can get lost in > > negative thoughts and feelings from time to time but around Amma's > presence > > it seemed to me that if a negative thought or judgement came into my > mind it > > seemed to leave as quickly as it came. > > > > As for worshipping Amma I can't really comment to much on that, > again cause > > I'm new but it seems to me that Amma, being a self realized soul has > merged > > with and become one with God/Goddess and is a physical > representation of > > that Divine love and compassion. So by serving the satguru we are > in fact > > serving God/Goddess. After all everything is God and nothing is > seperate. > > Amma has never from what I've read, heard and experienced asked > anything of > > anyone but to have an open heart. Through our own experiences Amma > becomes > > a relfection of what we need in the moment. > > > > I must say that I was a bit suprised to hear someone in an email seeing > > anything what Amma teaches and does as requiring blind faith. Yes, > having > > faith in anything one believes is important but I've never read nor > heard > > Amma ever say to take something completely on blind faith without > > experiencing it. Amma seems to stress faith in one's self and learning > > through experience before deciding on something but even in the end > if you > > choose to see otherwise or go else where Amma places no judgment on > your > > choice. > > > > Of course everyone has a right to their own feelings and beliefs. > As for me > > I follow my intuition and experiences and I felt unconditional love and > > compassion completely from both Amma and her Swamis. > > > > In Love and Light, > > Stacey > > > > _______________ > > http://newlivehotmail.com > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 23, 2007 Ok guys, I've been following this thread since the beginning and I have to admit it's been very engaging. We all have our our own questions and doubts, and they are all valid. We should respect where everyone is on the path, and do our best to help each other out in gaining spiritual knowledge whether Amma devotees or not. I have one thing to add while on the subject of Amma being a Deity or God/Goddess. Last November while at the Detroit retreat, my friend and I were talking about Amma while sitting about 20 feet in front of her. My friend was excitedly talking in my ear about how Amma is a Deity that has reincarnated. Right at that moment Amma, with someone on her lap, looked at me and gave me this huge smile as if she knew what was being said. I was just shocked! Also while in NYC last week, another friend was talking about how while in NYC she turns into Kali.....again she looked right at us with this fierce look. Either she knows everything and is just playing with us, or it is true that she is a Devi incarnate. My heart tells me the latter, but everyone is justified in their beliefs. Pretty cool tho, haha Madhurima Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Well beautifully replied! My whole dilemma has started from my own desire to seek a guru. > There is no greater DHARMA than surrendering to your Guru (who is > verily Krishna himself, never mind what ISCKON may think about this). I agree with this statement 100%. I think the goal of one's life is to find the right guru. However, I believe that no guru is better than a bad guru/cheat. There is a beautiful story from " Autobiography of a Yogi " . Swami Yoganada is sitting with his guru and other disciples on top of a remote mountain in Himalayas. All of a sudden a man walks upto them and tell his Guru (Bapa Lahiri if I remember the name correctly) and says " Master please accept me as your disciple. Else I will jump off this cliff this very moment " . The guru says, " I cannot accept you as my disciple " . The man promptly jumps off the cliff. Everyone is completely stunned by this incident. Meanwhile guru asks his disciples to bring the now dead body back to him. He then revives the man and says that due to his karma he could not accept the man as his disciple in his past life. But now that he was dead and revived, he was fit to be a disciple. This story to me shows the kind of faith that a disciple must invest in his guru. However in this age of Kali it would be extremely foolish to place this kind of belief in a person. So the question really boils down to what are the qualifications that one must seek in a guru. Also I am curious about your ISKCON remark. I go to the ISKCON temple near my very regularly and I have never heard any negative comment about surrendering to guru. In fact its only because I have been going to this temple that I find a urgent need to seek a guru. -Narendra Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of manoj_menon Friday, July 20, 2007 8:30 PM Ammachi Re: A sincere question Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > >>> they may not understand. > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? Go with an open mind and heart and see what Amma does. Forget all you learned in your past before you do this, I dare say, even your Bhagavatam (a book even I am very fond of). THEN, decide for yourself who Amma is. > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my > great shock I found that my merely questioning Amma's words > automatically made me a " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is > completely anti-hindu. Perhaps this is your projection of their attitudes. They love Amma, and probably can't understand why you question so much. And they may not have answers for your intricate question and may not desire to have this answer as keenly as you obviously do. think about it, this is an akward situation; most people try to get out of such situations. why judge them as " judging " you as a sinner for this? Did anyone passionately say " Narendra, you are a SINNER for eVen thinking so? " . probably not. if you have indeed leaped to a conclusion, think calmly about what happened and re-evaluate. consider your own motivations during that interaction (and I mean this respectfully). Amma IS Krishna. She realized at 16 (or earlier) with intense and all- pervading visions of Krishna. She manifested Krishna Bhava till 1985. I guess She knows what She is saying. But I don't know if Amma said what you reported (Krishna is a brahmachari and Bhagavatam is a story etc), atleast I did not see that reported as such in the websites or anywhere. If She did say so, it sounds pretty original and interesting, if not controversial. But there are lots of orgs who have similar beliefs. SRCM (www.srcm.org) belief Krishna was at best married to only 1 and not 16,000+ wives. It also says Yogiraj Shankar (Shiva) is never married; and the story of Parvati married to Shiva is a hoax. That Parvati is, at best, a demi-goddess. I read this in their books, I don't have a link to prove this here. So beliefs can be of any shape or form; ultimately you just need to follow your guru. Why try to fit the Infinite > In Bhgavad Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has > on many occasions clearly stated that a person must use his > intelligence to the best of his abilities. Absolutely, BUT ..... > At no point is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his > eyes and blindly follow his guru. " Abandoning all DHARMAS (of body, mind, and intellect), take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not. " - Srimad Bhagavad Geeta (18:66) There is no greater DHARMA than surrendering to your Guru (who is verily Krishna himself, never mind what ISCKON may think about this). Jai Ma! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Well this was on Tuesday evening during the Question and Answer session. This has nothing to do with since I did not ask the question. There was some other devotee who asked AMma the question regarding Krishn'a 16,108 wives. There were many people who heard this answer. I don't know how many present there were bothered enough to try and get to the bottom of this. Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of parzival35 Monday, July 23, 2007 4:48 AM Ammachi Re: A sincere question Did anyone else hear this about Amma's comments on the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata at the Boston retreat? I am only inquiring to know more about context and if this was an extended discussion, or only very brief answer to a question or two. P. Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > >>> they may not understand. > > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? > > > > About the swami's being rude to me, it doesn't directly concern me. However > it does reflect upon the quality of these swami's. One measure of how > spiritually advanced a person is to see the humility within the person. If > the swami is too busy to talk that's perfectly understandable, however when > they are rude that's not cool. I expect much higher standard's from swami's > as compared to us regular folks. > > > > In any case I am not here to talk trash about anyone. In such a case it's > only my loss. What started all this off was when Amma said that Bhagavatham > and Mahabharat are just stories. This is something she said in a public > forum - Boston retreat. I tried my best to get to the bottom of this > statement and therefore asked other swami's. No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > > > From whatever little Bhagavatham I have read, I have grown really fond of > it. Its pretty obvious to me that this is no " story " . Just reading this book > has changed my life. So when a great leader such as Amma said that > Bhgavatham is just a story, I had to get to the bottom of this. There are > only two possibilities. Amma is right in which case Bhagavatham is a story > or Amma is wrong in which case, I have no idea what the implications are if > Amma is wrong. > > > > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my great shock I > found that my merely questioning Amma's words automatically made me a > " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is completely anti-hindu. In Bhgavad > Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has on many occasions clearly stated that a > person must use his intelligence to the best of his abilities. At no point > is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his eyes and blindly follow > his guru. > > > > This statement by Amma has lead me to question why is it that her devotee's > consider her a devi. What is the spiritual backing of this movement? Why is > the whole organization centered one human being instead of Krishna. Why is > Amma worshipped as a devi instead of as a sad-guru. As someone has rightly > pointed out, the position of a sad-guru is even higher than that of Devi. > Therefore there is no insult in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru instead of as > devi. Since I could not directly question Amma, I thought of looking at the > next best thing, her direct disciples. I can understand Malayalam very well. > So I was listening to their conversations. 100% of their conversation was > extremely materialistic. When I tried to talk to them, no one tried to clear > my questions. I spoke with some of the other devotees there. I heard some > rather scary stories on how Amma said one thing during one meeting and the > exact opposite thing in the next meeting. At the same time I hear miracle > stories, how Amma cured some disease, how Amma helped them. I can also see > how Amma is helping millions of poor people. So this only caused more > confusion and therefore my emails on this forum. > > > > -Narendra > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> ] On Behalf Of > ckeniley2003 > Friday, July 20, 2007 3:23 PM > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Re: A sincere question...,,some perspective > > > > To be more accurate, most people will not follow Amma, most people > will not feel drawn to going to Amma. Then, of those who come, nbot > all will get it, or spend enough time around Amma being quiet enough > to get it. If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > they may not understand. > > Personally, I have not noticed that the swamis spend time > with " pretty women " . that does not seem accurate to me. They do spend > a lot of time with Indian families though, and that is part of their > role. > > Peace, > Chris > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> , > " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > You have solved your own problem. > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > that > > what I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > You don't require anyone else to clear your doubts. " Pretty > women " can > > distract even the most devoted when they see how many of them there > are > > " out there " !!! > > > > P. > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> , > " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki@> wrote: > > > > > > Well I personally have had no " magical " experiences with Amma. I > have > > made > > > an honest attempt to talk to some of the swami's present. What > bothers > > me > > > greatly is to see the swami's spent inordinate amount of time > talking > > to > > > pretty women while completely ignoring me and my mom. And trust > me, I > > wasn't > > > rude to anyone. I asked some of the swami's about what the whole > > philosophy > > > of the organization is beyond " love " and hugging people. I am not > > trying to > > > down play the importance of love, but having faith in a person > without > > > knowledge is very dangerous. I found it very disconcerting that I > > wasn't > > > able to find anyone who was willing to explain my questions and > clear > > my > > > doubts. > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > that what > > > I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because > > > 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> ] On > > Behalf Of > > > Mary Beth Hayman > > > Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:40 AM > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > Re: A sincere question > > > > > > Here are Amma's words... > > > > > > " The Inner Mother, whose true nature is infinitude and silence, > > manifests > > > visibly through this body so that her children can have a glimpse > of > > the > > > Mother who is deep within. The body is powerful; it has the power > to > > express > > > > > > the infinite inner power. The reason this external Mother exists > is to > > help > > > you reach the Inner Mother, the Mother of the " Mind of minds. " The > > Inner > > > Mother has none of the external qualities. It is totally silent > and > > > attributeless in the " Mind of minds. " Silence is the language of > this > > Inner > > > Mother. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pranada S. " daughterpranada@ > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > >Re: A sincere question > > > >Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:50:06 -0400 > > > > > > > >Namah Shivaya, Narendra, > > > > > > > >I am not by any stretch of the imagination a " senior " member of > this > > > >forum, nor could I begin to speak to the Krishna story, but I can > > tell > > > >you that Amma has said that all of creation was Her guru. She > has > > > >also said that Her mother, Damayanti-amma, was Her guru in a > sense, > > > >because she inculcated Her with such attention to detail, > charity, > > and > > > >cleanliness. > > > > > > > >I also believe that Jesus Christ was an avatar. Yet if He had a > > guru, > > > >that knowledge has been lost to us. > > > > > > > >Whether or not a guru is present in the body, or named, does that > > > >change what is? > > > > > > > >Amma has been asked in the past why everyone is worshipping > Her. She > > > >answered that actually She is the one worshipping them. She > sees God > > > >within everyone and She bows down to that. > > > > > > > >When people first started to come to Amma, She tried to shoo them > > away > > > >and drive them off, but because of their deep love for Her, they > > could > > > >not stand to leave, so finally She relented and allowed them to > stay. > > > >I don't think that She is concerned with whether there is a large > > > >organization around Her. She has said that even if all Her > swamis > > > >were to leave the ashram, She would continue to do what She is > doing > > - > > > >to embrace, to help the suffering. > > > > > > > >She has also said that today people might call Her Devi, tomorrow > > they > > > >might call Her a devil. She doesn't care. > > > > > > > >Ultimately, I think that there is no substitute for witnessing, > > > >first-hand, Her physical presence and the transformation > within. I > > > >absolutely do believe that Amma is Devi, not because of what > anyone > > > >has told me, but because of my own feelings and experiences. > But I > > > >can't give that belief to anyone else. > > > > > > > >On the intellectual level, it is simply impossible to grasp what > Amma > > > >is. If we try only intellectually, we will come to false > conclusion > > > >after false conclusion, positive and negative alike. I think > that > > > >intellect and discernment are not to be abandoned, by any > stretch; > > > >only recognized as not the ultimate arbiter when it comes to the > > > >nature of a Satguru or avatar. > > > > > > > >I don't understand Amma at all; the more I try, the more I find > that > > > >She is unknowable. It is actually kind of a relief: She is not, > > > >cannot be, limited to any intellectual conception of Her that I > may > > > >come up with. > > > > > > > >Jai Ma, > > > >Pranada > > > > > > > > > > > >On 7/18/07, Narendra Kulkarni nkulki@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thank you for your response. I do agree with your point > that > > > >ultimately > > > > > only I can figure out who Amma is. Even if someone else tells > me > > who > > > >Amma > > > > > is, I still won't understand. > > > > > > > >[text snipped by moderator] > > > > > > ________ > > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! > > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Well beautifully replied! > > My whole dilemma has started from my own desire to seek a guru. > > > > There is no greater DHARMA than surrendering to your Guru (who is > > verily Krishna himself, never mind what ISCKON may think about this). > >>> Namaste Narendra, Perhaps these words of Amma will help to understand what " spiritual surrender " is all about : Questioner: Will I attain samadhi (enlightenment) in this lifetime? Amma: Why not? Questioner: If so, what should I do to accelerate the process? Amma: First of all, forget about samadhi and focus completely on your sadhana (spiritual practices) with strong faith. A true sadhak (spiritual seeker) believes more in the present than in the future. When we lay our faith in the " present moment, " all our energy will also be " here and now. " The result is surrender. Surrender to the present moment, and it will happen. ~~~~~ Also, you may want to read " Awaken Children " Vol VII which is the quintessence of Vedanta according to Swamiji. My advice: Don't get stuck on some one negative thought, doubt or experience. Push forward. Read spiritual books. Ask questions like you're doing, etc. Did you say you speak Malayalam? If so, why not ask Amma directly? Should be easier than for the rest of us who need an interpreter. Overall, seems that you will be fine and I hope benefiting from the many beautiful responses. Amma Bless You, amarnath Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Sometimes...What is percieved is real.Follow your gut. Noone is better then you or holier then you. We are all Gods children and will be held accountable for our actions. You have a holy spirit that talks to you all day long. Have you heard ? You are special and you seem really nice and like I said what is percieved may very well be REAL ! God Bless Narendra Kulkarni <nkulki wrote: Well this was on Tuesday evening during the Question and Answer session. This has nothing to do with since I did not ask the question. There was some other devotee who asked AMma the question regarding Krishn'a 16,108 wives. There were many people who heard this answer. I don't know how many present there were bothered enough to try and get to the bottom of this. Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of parzival35 Monday, July 23, 2007 4:48 AM Ammachi Re: A sincere question Did anyone else hear this about Amma's comments on the Bhagavatam and Mahabharata at the Boston retreat? I am only inquiring to know more about context and if this was an extended discussion, or only very brief answer to a question or two. P. Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > >>> they may not understand. > > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? > > > > About the swami's being rude to me, it doesn't directly concern me. However > it does reflect upon the quality of these swami's. One measure of how > spiritually advanced a person is to see the humility within the person. If > the swami is too busy to talk that's perfectly understandable, however when > they are rude that's not cool. I expect much higher standard's from swami's > as compared to us regular folks. > > > > In any case I am not here to talk trash about anyone. In such a case it's > only my loss. What started all this off was when Amma said that Bhagavatham > and Mahabharat are just stories. This is something she said in a public > forum - Boston retreat. I tried my best to get to the bottom of this > statement and therefore asked other swami's. No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > > > From whatever little Bhagavatham I have read, I have grown really fond of > it. Its pretty obvious to me that this is no " story " . Just reading this book > has changed my life. So when a great leader such as Amma said that > Bhgavatham is just a story, I had to get to the bottom of this. There are > only two possibilities. Amma is right in which case Bhagavatham is a story > or Amma is wrong in which case, I have no idea what the implications are if > Amma is wrong. > > > > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my great shock I > found that my merely questioning Amma's words automatically made me a > " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is completely anti-hindu. In Bhgavad > Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has on many occasions clearly stated that a > person must use his intelligence to the best of his abilities. At no point > is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his eyes and blindly follow > his guru. > > > > This statement by Amma has lead me to question why is it that her devotee's > consider her a devi. What is the spiritual backing of this movement? Why is > the whole organization centered one human being instead of Krishna. Why is > Amma worshipped as a devi instead of as a sad-guru. As someone has rightly > pointed out, the position of a sad-guru is even higher than that of Devi. > Therefore there is no insult in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru instead of as > devi. Since I could not directly question Amma, I thought of looking at the > next best thing, her direct disciples. I can understand Malayalam very well. > So I was listening to their conversations. 100% of their conversation was > extremely materialistic. When I tried to talk to them, no one tried to clear > my questions. I spoke with some of the other devotees there. I heard some > rather scary stories on how Amma said one thing during one meeting and the > exact opposite thing in the next meeting. At the same time I hear miracle > stories, how Amma cured some disease, how Amma helped them. I can also see > how Amma is helping millions of poor people. So this only caused more > confusion and therefore my emails on this forum. > > > > -Narendra > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> ] On Behalf Of > ckeniley2003 > Friday, July 20, 2007 3:23 PM > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Re: A sincere question...,,some perspective > > > > To be more accurate, most people will not follow Amma, most people > will not feel drawn to going to Amma. Then, of those who come, nbot > all will get it, or spend enough time around Amma being quiet enough > to get it. If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > they may not understand. > > Personally, I have not noticed that the swamis spend time > with " pretty women " . that does not seem accurate to me. They do spend > a lot of time with Indian families though, and that is part of their > role. > > Peace, > Chris > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> , > " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > You have solved your own problem. > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > that > > what I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > You don't require anyone else to clear your doubts. " Pretty > women " can > > distract even the most devoted when they see how many of them there > are > > " out there " !!! > > > > P. > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> , > " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki@> wrote: > > > > > > Well I personally have had no " magical " experiences with Amma. I > have > > made > > > an honest attempt to talk to some of the swami's present. What > bothers > > me > > > greatly is to see the swami's spent inordinate amount of time > talking > > to > > > pretty women while completely ignoring me and my mom. And trust > me, I > > wasn't > > > rude to anyone. I asked some of the swami's about what the whole > > philosophy > > > of the organization is beyond " love " and hugging people. I am not > > trying to > > > down play the importance of love, but having faith in a person > without > > > knowledge is very dangerous. I found it very disconcerting that I > > wasn't > > > able to find anyone who was willing to explain my questions and > clear > > my > > > doubts. > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > that what > > > I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > just > > because > > > 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> ] On > > Behalf Of > > > Mary Beth Hayman > > > Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:40 AM > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > Re: A sincere question > > > > > > Here are Amma's words... > > > > > > " The Inner Mother, whose true nature is infinitude and silence, > > manifests > > > visibly through this body so that her children can have a glimpse > of > > the > > > Mother who is deep within. The body is powerful; it has the power > to > > express > > > > > > the infinite inner power. The reason this external Mother exists > is to > > help > > > you reach the Inner Mother, the Mother of the " Mind of minds. " The > > Inner > > > Mother has none of the external qualities. It is totally silent > and > > > attributeless in the " Mind of minds. " Silence is the language of > this > > Inner > > > Mother. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pranada S. " daughterpranada@ > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > > >Re: A sincere question > > > >Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:50:06 -0400 > > > > > > > >Namah Shivaya, Narendra, > > > > > > > >I am not by any stretch of the imagination a " senior " member of > this > > > >forum, nor could I begin to speak to the Krishna story, but I can > > tell > > > >you that Amma has said that all of creation was Her guru. She > has > > > >also said that Her mother, Damayanti-amma, was Her guru in a > sense, > > > >because she inculcated Her with such attention to detail, > charity, > > and > > > >cleanliness. > > > > > > > >I also believe that Jesus Christ was an avatar. Yet if He had a > > guru, > > > >that knowledge has been lost to us. > > > > > > > >Whether or not a guru is present in the body, or named, does that > > > >change what is? > > > > > > > >Amma has been asked in the past why everyone is worshipping > Her. She > > > >answered that actually She is the one worshipping them. She > sees God > > > >within everyone and She bows down to that. > > > > > > > >When people first started to come to Amma, She tried to shoo them > > away > > > >and drive them off, but because of their deep love for Her, they > > could > > > >not stand to leave, so finally She relented and allowed them to > stay. > > > >I don't think that She is concerned with whether there is a large > > > >organization around Her. She has said that even if all Her > swamis > > > >were to leave the ashram, She would continue to do what She is > doing > > - > > > >to embrace, to help the suffering. > > > > > > > >She has also said that today people might call Her Devi, tomorrow > > they > > > >might call Her a devil. She doesn't care. > > > > > > > >Ultimately, I think that there is no substitute for witnessing, > > > >first-hand, Her physical presence and the transformation > within. I > > > >absolutely do believe that Amma is Devi, not because of what > anyone > > > >has told me, but because of my own feelings and experiences. > But I > > > >can't give that belief to anyone else. > > > > > > > >On the intellectual level, it is simply impossible to grasp what > Amma > > > >is. If we try only intellectually, we will come to false > conclusion > > > >after false conclusion, positive and negative alike. I think > that > > > >intellect and discernment are not to be abandoned, by any > stretch; > > > >only recognized as not the ultimate arbiter when it comes to the > > > >nature of a Satguru or avatar. > > > > > > > >I don't understand Amma at all; the more I try, the more I find > that > > > >She is unknowable. It is actually kind of a relief: She is not, > > > >cannot be, limited to any intellectual conception of Her that I > may > > > >come up with. > > > > > > > >Jai Ma, > > > >Pranada > > > > > > > > > > > >On 7/18/07, Narendra Kulkarni nkulki@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thank you for your response. I do agree with your point > that > > > >ultimately > > > > > only I can figure out who Amma is. Even if someone else tells > me > > who > > > >Amma > > > > > is, I still won't understand. > > > > > > > >[text snipped by moderator] > > > > > > ________ > > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! > > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > There is no greater DHARMA than surrendering to your Guru (who is > > verily Krishna himself, never mind what ISCKON may think about >> this). > > Also I am curious about your ISKCON remark. I go to the ISKCON > temple near my very regularly and I have never heard any negative > comment about surrendering to guru. In fact its only because I have > been going to this temple that I find a urgent need to seek a guru. > > -Narendra > Hi Narendra: I am glad you liked my reply. Never mind my above comment on ISCKON; it was probably out of place. I like ISCKON but I feel it gets too possessive of and Krishna to see any other deity or appreciate that people may have other ishta devatas. Jai Ma! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Dear Narendra, I believe it is actually the story of the 16,000 gopis you refer to, when Krishna manifested himself in 16,000 forms, one for each, and made love to each one in the way she most desired. I don't believe these gopis were ever " wives " in any sense so much as lovers of Krishna. This appears not only in the Bhagavatam but also in the Skanda Purana and some bhakti poetry of Krishna devotion. It is a well known account of rasa lila. The rasa lila is metaphoric. It shouldn't necessarily be read as literal, such that any swami would feel the need to declare poetry or myth as " just stories " - that misses the entire point of the play. http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/mamata.html <http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/mamata.html> http://krsnabook.com/ch31.html <http://krsnabook.com/ch31.html> http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/andal_marvelly.htm <http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/andal_marvelly.htm> Furthermore, this declaration of the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, and Brahma Sutras as the only genuine books of Hinduism probably comes from the Arya Samaj and Swami Dayanand Saraswati: http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/ <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/> http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154 <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda> P. Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Well this was on Tuesday evening during the Question and Answer session. > This has nothing to do with since I did not ask the question. There was some > other devotee who asked AMma the question regarding Krishn'a 16,108 wives. > There were many people who heard this answer. I don't know how many present > there were bothered enough to try and get to the bottom of this. > > > > > > Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of > parzival35 > Monday, July 23, 2007 4:48 AM > Ammachi > Re: A sincere question > > > > Did anyone else hear this about Amma's comments on the Bhagavatam and > Mahabharata at the Boston retreat? I am only inquiring to know more > about context and if this was an extended discussion, or only very > brief answer to a question or two. > > P. > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , > " Narendra Kulkarni " nkulki@ wrote: > > > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > > >>> they may not understand. > > > > > > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? > > > > > > > > About the swami's being rude to me, it doesn't directly concern me. > However > > it does reflect upon the quality of these swami's. One measure of how > > spiritually advanced a person is to see the humility within the > person. If > > the swami is too busy to talk that's perfectly understandable, > however when > > they are rude that's not cool. I expect much higher standard's from > swami's > > as compared to us regular folks. > > > > > > > > In any case I am not here to talk trash about anyone. In such a case > it's > > only my loss. What started all this off was when Amma said that > Bhagavatham > > and Mahabharat are just stories. This is something she said in a public > > forum - Boston retreat. I tried my best to get to the bottom of this > > statement and therefore asked other swami's. No swami was able to > explain to > > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . > Instead of > > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever > says this > > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > > > > > > > From whatever little Bhagavatham I have read, I have grown really > fond of > > it. Its pretty obvious to me that this is no " story " . Just reading > this book > > has changed my life. So when a great leader such as Amma said that > > Bhgavatham is just a story, I had to get to the bottom of this. > There are > > only two possibilities. Amma is right in which case Bhagavatham is a > story > > or Amma is wrong in which case, I have no idea what the implications > are if > > Amma is wrong. > > > > > > > > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my great > shock I > > found that my merely questioning Amma's words automatically made me a > > " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is completely anti-hindu. In Bhgavad > > Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has on many occasions clearly stated that a > > person must use his intelligence to the best of his abilities. At no > point > > is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his eyes and > blindly follow > > his guru. > > > > > > > > This statement by Amma has lead me to question why is it that her > devotee's > > consider her a devi. What is the spiritual backing of this movement? > Why is > > the whole organization centered one human being instead of Krishna. > Why is > > Amma worshipped as a devi instead of as a sad-guru. As someone has > rightly > > pointed out, the position of a sad-guru is even higher than that of > Devi. > > Therefore there is no insult in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru > instead of as > > devi. Since I could not directly question Amma, I thought of looking > at the > > next best thing, her direct disciples. I can understand Malayalam > very well. > > So I was listening to their conversations. 100% of their > conversation was > > extremely materialistic. When I tried to talk to them, no one tried > to clear > > my questions. I spoke with some of the other devotees there. I heard > some > > rather scary stories on how Amma said one thing during one meeting > and the > > exact opposite thing in the next meeting. At the same time I hear > miracle > > stories, how Amma cured some disease, how Amma helped them. I can > also see > > how Amma is helping millions of poor people. So this only caused more > > confusion and therefore my emails on this forum. > > > > > > > > -Narendra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> ] On > Behalf Of > > ckeniley2003 > > Friday, July 20, 2007 3:23 PM > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > > Re: A sincere question...,,some perspective > > > > > > > > To be more accurate, most people will not follow Amma, most people > > will not feel drawn to going to Amma. Then, of those who come, nbot > > all will get it, or spend enough time around Amma being quiet enough > > to get it. If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > > they may not understand. > > > > Personally, I have not noticed that the swamis spend time > > with " pretty women " . that does not seem accurate to me. They do spend > > a lot of time with Indian families though, and that is part of their > > role. > > > > Peace, > > Chris > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> , > > " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > > > You have solved your own problem. > > > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > that > > > what I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > > just > > > because 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > You don't require anyone else to clear your doubts. " Pretty > > women " can > > > distract even the most devoted when they see how many of them there > > are > > > " out there " !!! > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> , > > " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I personally have had no " magical " experiences with Amma. I > > have > > > made > > > > an honest attempt to talk to some of the swami's present. What > > bothers > > > me > > > > greatly is to see the swami's spent inordinate amount of time > > talking > > > to > > > > pretty women while completely ignoring me and my mom. And trust > > me, I > > > wasn't > > > > rude to anyone. I asked some of the swami's about what the whole > > > philosophy > > > > of the organization is beyond " love " and hugging people. I am not > > > trying to > > > > down play the importance of love, but having faith in a person > > without > > > > knowledge is very dangerous. I found it very disconcerting that I > > > wasn't > > > > able to find anyone who was willing to explain my questions and > > clear > > > my > > > > doubts. > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > > that what > > > > I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > > just > > > because > > > > 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> ] On > > > Behalf Of > > > > Mary Beth Hayman > > > > Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:40 AM > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > Re: A sincere question > > > > > > > > Here are Amma's words... > > > > > > > > " The Inner Mother, whose true nature is infinitude and silence, > > > manifests > > > > visibly through this body so that her children can have a glimpse > > of > > > the > > > > Mother who is deep within. The body is powerful; it has the power > > to > > > express > > > > > > > > the infinite inner power. The reason this external Mother exists > > is to > > > help > > > > you reach the Inner Mother, the Mother of the " Mind of minds. " The > > > Inner > > > > Mother has none of the external qualities. It is totally silent > > and > > > > attributeless in the " Mind of minds. " Silence is the language of > > this > > > Inner > > > > Mother. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pranada S. " daughterpranada@ > > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > >Re: A sincere question > > > > >Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:50:06 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >Namah Shivaya, Narendra, > > > > > > > > > >I am not by any stretch of the imagination a " senior " member of > > this > > > > >forum, nor could I begin to speak to the Krishna story, but I can > > > tell > > > > >you that Amma has said that all of creation was Her guru. She > > has > > > > >also said that Her mother, Damayanti-amma, was Her guru in a > > sense, > > > > >because she inculcated Her with such attention to detail, > > charity, > > > and > > > > >cleanliness. > > > > > > > > > >I also believe that Jesus Christ was an avatar. Yet if He had a > > > guru, > > > > >that knowledge has been lost to us. > > > > > > > > > >Whether or not a guru is present in the body, or named, does that > > > > >change what is? > > > > > > > > > >Amma has been asked in the past why everyone is worshipping > > Her. She > > > > >answered that actually She is the one worshipping them. She > > sees God > > > > >within everyone and She bows down to that. > > > > > > > > > >When people first started to come to Amma, She tried to shoo them > > > away > > > > >and drive them off, but because of their deep love for Her, they > > > could > > > > >not stand to leave, so finally She relented and allowed them to > > stay. > > > > >I don't think that She is concerned with whether there is a large > > > > >organization around Her. She has said that even if all Her > > swamis > > > > >were to leave the ashram, She would continue to do what She is > > doing > > > - > > > > >to embrace, to help the suffering. > > > > > > > > > >She has also said that today people might call Her Devi, tomorrow > > > they > > > > >might call Her a devil. She doesn't care. > > > > > > > > > >Ultimately, I think that there is no substitute for witnessing, > > > > >first-hand, Her physical presence and the transformation > > within. I > > > > >absolutely do believe that Amma is Devi, not because of what > > anyone > > > > >has told me, but because of my own feelings and experiences. > > But I > > > > >can't give that belief to anyone else. > > > > > > > > > >On the intellectual level, it is simply impossible to grasp what > > Amma > > > > >is. If we try only intellectually, we will come to false > > conclusion > > > > >after false conclusion, positive and negative alike. I think > > that > > > > >intellect and discernment are not to be abandoned, by any > > stretch; > > > > >only recognized as not the ultimate arbiter when it comes to the > > > > >nature of a Satguru or avatar. > > > > > > > > > >I don't understand Amma at all; the more I try, the more I find > > that > > > > >She is unknowable. It is actually kind of a relief: She is not, > > > > >cannot be, limited to any intellectual conception of Her that I > > may > > > > >come up with. > > > > > > > > > >Jai Ma, > > > > >Pranada > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 7/18/07, Narendra Kulkarni nkulki@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thank you for your response. I do agree with your point > > that > > > > >ultimately > > > > > > only I can figure out who Amma is. Even if someone else tells > > me > > > who > > > > >Amma > > > > > > is, I still won't understand. > > > > > > > > > >[text snipped by moderator] > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! > > > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:38:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. My understanding is that the same guy, Vyasa, wrote the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam and the Brahma Sutra, so it would be hard to believe that one of his works is legitimate and the other " mere stories. " why would he do such a thing write one legitimate work and one illegitimate work? Furthermore, the Gita is part of the Mahabharata, so if the latter is dismissed as illegitimate, then how could the former be legitimate? Where are our Vedic scholars when you need them? Avram, legitimately illegitimate ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 Darlings and joy to all, I reread this post and later realized that even an ANTI Amma group would hardly be objective! LOL..So consider this, trying to use empirical data,- as in scientifically objective is impossible with regards to the spiritual realm. Science is limited..and..lol..finding someone " objective " -sheesh who has that anyway regarding anything? We all have opinions, beliefs and feelings that we use every day in our interpretation of the world. Even some reporters who tried to be " objective " walked away changed from Amma's embrace. For those of us who are devoted to Amma, nothing else really matters much since we surrender all to Her beloved, lotus covered feet. For those of us who have her as our guru, we feel blessed, fortunate and immensely joyful beyond any words. Every day life is easier to face- no matter what obstacles come my way, at least. I know Amma is always with me. Swamini's new book (Torrential Love) had a great story in it-true as well. Her father is aging and longed to find this great peace and joy that Swamini also found in being with Amma. He trecked the same Asian countries and paths that she had taken early in her youth when she first discovered Amma. Once arriving at the ashram to meet Amma, he simply shook Her hand (though Amma gave him Her " hug " :)Once finished with his journeys, he felt pretty much unchanged and could not figure out what his daughter, Amma's right hand swamini, had found in Her presence. The moral of the story is we can copy others, do what they do in spiritual practice, follow their guru around,-but we may not walk away with the same results. It does require surrending your ego-not an easy task as someone else also pointed out. Simply doing the walk is not enough. in Amma's divine love always, adriane Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves wrote: > > Dear Narendra, > > Perhaps this forum is not the best place to get an unbiased answer. > It's a little bit like going to the National Rifle Association and > explaining that you don't understand why guns should be legal. Asking > a swami would be the equivalent of asking Charlton Heston the same. > Consider your sources in your quest for unbiased answers. > > Devotees don't like questions like this, either. That may be helpful > to remember as well. When you ask questions like this, it tends to > threaten the good feelings that devotees have about Amma. Of course, > no one likes it when something meddles with their good feelings. > > Try the Ex Amma . They are a little more open to > conversation about things like this over there. > > -Violet > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 24, 2007 I think Violet's point was that some of Amma's " very devoted " children act like fanatics at times such that they actually cause harm to those " outside " the group through a sort of persecution, if anyone questions their religious authori-ty. In the interest of being defensive of spirituality, the acquisitive ego may tend to see things through rose colored glasses while avoiding anything that tends to be either contradictory or controversial. It becomes very easy to consider someone's point of view as an outsider when there is no insight at all into their perspective, or why they may feel or think as they do. What this requires of everyone is deep introspection on all our parts as to how we treat people who are devotees and people who are not, especially when those who are not devotees are regarded as being " materialistic " or " anti-religious " or against spirituality simply because they may be either atheist, agnostic, or of a political persuasion that favors an anti-religious point of view, or no point of view at all. For the most part, it seems that those who actually do not believe that religion has any benefits at all, often tend to look at the tacit and conformist aspects of control that religious authority can confer on " the righteous " - in other words, it becomes very easy to always be right when we think that " God " is on our side - and that is a form of religious fanaticism, or it can become so. So, I am very much in agreement with everything you just posted, adriane! It was very well put, with those examples from Swamini's book! That was kind of funny! Thanks! Moreover, the " realized " may not have any particular point of view they hold at all! P. Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > Darlings and joy to all, > I reread this post and later realized that even an ANTI Amma group > would hardly be objective! LOL..So consider this, trying to use > empirical data,- as in scientifically objective is impossible with > regards to the spiritual realm. Science is limited..and..lol..finding > someone " objective " -sheesh who has that anyway regarding anything? We > all have opinions, beliefs and feelings that we use every day in our > interpretation of the world. Even some reporters who tried to > be " objective " walked away changed from Amma's embrace. > > For those of us who are devoted to Amma, nothing else really matters > much since we surrender all to Her beloved, lotus covered feet. For > those of us who have her as our guru, we feel blessed, fortunate and > immensely joyful beyond any words. Every day life is easier to face- > no matter what obstacles come my way, at least. I know Amma is always > with me. > > Swamini's new book (Torrential Love) had a great story in it-true as > well. Her father is aging and longed to find this great peace and joy > that Swamini also found in being with Amma. He trecked the same Asian > countries and paths that she had taken early in her youth when she > first discovered Amma. Once arriving at the ashram to meet Amma, he > simply shook Her hand (though Amma gave him Her " hug " :)Once finished > with his journeys, he felt pretty much unchanged and could not figure > out what his daughter, Amma's right hand swamini, had found in Her > presence. > > The moral of the story is we can copy others, do what they do in > spiritual practice, follow their guru around,-but we may not walk > away with the same results. It does require surrending your ego-not > an easy task as someone else also pointed out. Simply doing the walk > is not enough. > > in Amma's divine love always, > adriane > > > Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > Perhaps this forum is not the best place to get an unbiased answer. > > It's a little bit like going to the National Rifle Association and > > explaining that you don't understand why guns should be legal. > Asking > > a swami would be the equivalent of asking Charlton Heston the same. > > Consider your sources in your quest for unbiased answers. > > > > Devotees don't like questions like this, either. That may be helpful > > to remember as well. When you ask questions like this, it tends to > > threaten the good feelings that devotees have about Amma. Of course, > > no one likes it when something meddles with their good feelings. > > > > Try the Ex Amma . They are a little more open to > > conversation about things like this over there. > > > > -Violet > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 25, 2007 Thank you Darling Parzival35 (grin) I think Amma would simply say to treat everyone with love. And boy if that isn't hard to do at times. I am thinking of my work day at the call center today and one person after another began to irritate me with their seemingly petty concerns and moreso when they became impatient or confused by my attempted explanations. Oh woe is me! My little hothead inside realized that I was getting just a LITTLE impatient myself and had to stop and treat each person with respect, forgetting that perhaps I was the confusing one! It does not come easy-as Ringo Starr once said. You know it don't come easy...open up your heart.... Are we fanatics? LOL..I am sure that I am! I understand how people view Amma devotees as a bit " out there " since I was someone who once had that perception. After a friend tried to get me to see Amma for 2 yrs, I finally went to get the famous hug. I was in my deceased father's bedroom gazing out the window when I suddenly said " Amma. " Her name just manifested on my lips. I thought, that is weird, I was not even thinking of Amma. Then immediately thought, I must go see Amma this year! A few months later I found myself in Fairfield to visit the woman Amma, who I now call my guru. I walked into the gym to find Amma already hugging people, many people walking around in white and strange music playing. I thought " What a circus! " I will NOT be coming back to this crazy affair. WELL...HA! What did I know anyway? Not much apparently. I had to wait a little while based on my token number. (Back then you could actually get TWO hugs in one day! Wow I did not realize how short lived that would be and what a fortunate thing!) I spent my time waiting interviewing others who had had their hug. Everyone reported pretty much the same thing, they felt this incredible happiness. One person actually said they felt " stoned " . I got my hug but became increasingly angry that Amma would not look at me! Before going up I noticed she gazed at others, smiling, etc. Even after my second hug in the evening program, I still did not get much attention it seemed to me. Then, it was Devi Bhava night that She made me realize who SHE IS. It's a long story but She flipped me upside down and rocked my world in a way that no one has EVER done. I had an instance where I realized She was able to know my thoughts. Approaching her for my hug that fateful, life changing night, I was crying like I had not ever cried before. A Swami caught my eye and just nodded his head in understanding. When Amma hugged me, everything disappeared. She asked me to sit by Her and I could barely walk after She finished hugging me and I cannot explain that at all. It was like I was drunk on God. Once I quit crying, it was like something popped off of me and I felt this exquisite bliss that I never have had before. Words won't really explain this at all. I was bubbling over with incredible joy. Much more happened that night-something like a book's worth. Another newcomer and I had many things happen that made us aware of Amma's greatness. I will not ever forget and I hope I am forever humbled. Amma is always working on this baby. in Amma's love, adriane Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2 wrote: I think Violet's point was that some of Amma's " very devoted " children act like fanatics at times such that they actually cause harm to those " outside " the group through a sort of persecution, if anyone questions their religious authori-ty. In the interest of being defensive of spirituality, the acquisitive ego may tend to see things through rose colored glasses while avoiding anything that tends to be either contradictory or controversial. It becomes very easy to consider someone's point of view as an outsider when there is no insight at all into their perspective, or why they may feel or think as they do. What this requires of everyone is deep introspection on all our parts as to how we treat people who are devotees and people who are not, especially when those who are not devotees are regarded as being " materialistic " or " anti-religious " or against spirituality simply because they may be either atheist, agnostic, or of a political persuasion that favors an anti-religious point of view, or no point of view at all. For the most part, it seems that those who actually do not believe that religion has any benefits at all, often tend to look at the tacit and conformist aspects of control that religious authority can confer on " the righteous " - in other words, it becomes very easy to always be right when we think that " God " is on our side - and that is a form of religious fanaticism, or it can become so. So, I am very much in agreement with everything you just posted, adriane! It was very well put, with those examples from Swamini's book! That was kind of funny! Thanks! Moreover, the " realized " may not have any particular point of view they hold at all! P. Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2 wrote: > > I think Violet's point was that some of Amma's " very devoted " children > act like fanatics at times such that they actually cause harm to those > " outside " the group through a sort of persecution, if anyone questions > their religious authori-ty. > > In the interest of being defensive of spirituality, the acquisitive > ego may tend to see things through rose colored glasses while avoiding > anything that tends to be either contradictory or controversial. It > becomes very easy to consider someone's point of view as an outsider > when there is no insight at all into their perspective, or why they > may feel or think as they do. > > What this requires of everyone is deep introspection on all our parts > as to how we treat people who are devotees and people who are not, > especially when those who are not devotees are regarded as being > " materialistic " or " anti-religious " or against spirituality simply > because they may be either atheist, agnostic, or of a political > persuasion that favors an anti-religious point of view, or no point of > view at all. > > For the most part, it seems that those who actually do not believe > that religion has any benefits at all, often tend to look at the tacit > and conformist aspects of control that religious authority can confer > on " the righteous " - in other words, it becomes very easy to always be > right when we think that " God " is on our side - and that is a form of > religious fanaticism, or it can become so. > > So, I am very much in agreement with everything you just posted, > adriane! It was very well put, with those examples from Swamini's > book! That was kind of funny! Thanks! > > Moreover, the " realized " may not have any particular point of view > they hold at all! > > P. > > > Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > Darlings and joy to all, > > I reread this post and later realized that even an ANTI Amma group > > would hardly be objective! LOL..So consider this, trying to use > > empirical data,- as in scientifically objective is impossible with > > regards to the spiritual realm. Science is limited..and..lol..finding > > someone " objective " -sheesh who has that anyway regarding anything? We > > all have opinions, beliefs and feelings that we use every day in our > > interpretation of the world. Even some reporters who tried to > > be " objective " walked away changed from Amma's embrace. > > > > For those of us who are devoted to Amma, nothing else really matters > > much since we surrender all to Her beloved, lotus covered feet. For > > those of us who have her as our guru, we feel blessed, fortunate and > > immensely joyful beyond any words. Every day life is easier to face- > > no matter what obstacles come my way, at least. I know Amma is always > > with me. > > > > Swamini's new book (Torrential Love) had a great story in it-true as > > well. Her father is aging and longed to find this great peace and joy > > that Swamini also found in being with Amma. He trecked the same Asian > > countries and paths that she had taken early in her youth when she > > first discovered Amma. Once arriving at the ashram to meet Amma, he > > simply shook Her hand (though Amma gave him Her " hug " :)Once finished > > with his journeys, he felt pretty much unchanged and could not figure > > out what his daughter, Amma's right hand swamini, had found in Her > > presence. > > > > The moral of the story is we can copy others, do what they do in > > spiritual practice, follow their guru around,-but we may not walk > > away with the same results. It does require surrending your ego- not > > an easy task as someone else also pointed out. Simply doing the walk > > is not enough. > > > > in Amma's divine love always, > > adriane > > > > > > Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > > > Perhaps this forum is not the best place to get an unbiased answer. > > > It's a little bit like going to the National Rifle Association and > > > explaining that you don't understand why guns should be legal. > > Asking > > > a swami would be the equivalent of asking Charlton Heston the same. > > > Consider your sources in your quest for unbiased answers. > > > > > > Devotees don't like questions like this, either. That may be helpful > > > to remember as well. When you ask questions like this, it tends to > > > threaten the good feelings that devotees have about Amma. Of course, > > > no one likes it when something meddles with their good feelings. > > > > > > Try the Ex Amma . They are a little more open to > > > conversation about things like this over there. > > > > > > -Violet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 25, 2007 Call center, huh? You have it easy. You don't have to listen to the endless and petty demands of devotees. " Sankalpa this and sankalpa that! Please give me enlightenment, Mother! I want it oh, so badly! I promise I will serve you for the rest of my miserable worm existence with all the angst of my insignificant little being. Make me free Amma! Give me Moksha! Moksha! Moksha! " Adriane, just take the next call and get the difficult guy off the phone with some finesse. P. Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane wrote: > > Thank you Darling Parzival35 (grin) > I think Amma would simply say to treat everyone with love. And boy if > that isn't hard to do at times. I am thinking of my work day at the > call center today and one person after another began to irritate me > with their seemingly petty concerns and moreso when they became > impatient or confused by my attempted explanations. Oh woe is me! My > little hothead inside realized that I was getting just a LITTLE > impatient myself and had to stop and treat each person with respect, > forgetting that perhaps I was the confusing one! It does not come > easy-as Ringo Starr once said. You know it don't come easy...open up > your heart.... > > Are we fanatics? LOL..I am sure that I am! I understand how people > view Amma devotees as a bit " out there " since I was someone who once > had that perception. After a friend tried to get me to see Amma for 2 > yrs, I finally went to get the famous hug. I was in my deceased > father's bedroom gazing out the window when I suddenly said " Amma. " > Her name just manifested on my lips. I thought, that is weird, I was > not even thinking of Amma. Then immediately thought, I must go see > Amma this year! > > A few months later I found myself in Fairfield to visit the woman > Amma, who I now call my guru. I walked into the gym to find Amma > already hugging people, many people walking around in white and > strange music playing. I thought " What a circus! " I will NOT be > coming back to this crazy affair. WELL...HA! What did I know anyway? > Not much apparently. I had to wait a little while based on my token > number. (Back then you could actually get TWO hugs in one day! Wow I > did not realize how short lived that would be and what a fortunate > thing!) > > I spent my time waiting interviewing others who had had their hug. > Everyone reported pretty much the same thing, they felt this > incredible happiness. One person actually said they felt " stoned " . > > I got my hug but became increasingly angry that Amma would not look > at me! Before going up I noticed she gazed at others, smiling, etc. > Even after my second hug in the evening program, I still did not get > much attention it seemed to me. > > Then, it was Devi Bhava night that She made me realize who SHE IS. > It's a long story but She flipped me upside down and rocked my world > in a way that no one has EVER done. I had an instance where I > realized She was able to know my thoughts. Approaching her for my hug > that fateful, life changing night, I was crying like I had not ever > cried before. A Swami caught my eye and just nodded his head in > understanding. When Amma hugged me, everything disappeared. She asked > me to sit by Her and I could barely walk after She finished hugging > me and I cannot explain that at all. It was like I was drunk on God. > Once I quit crying, it was like something popped off of me and I felt > this exquisite bliss that I never have had before. Words won't really > explain this at all. I was bubbling over with incredible joy. > > Much more happened that night-something like a book's worth. Another > newcomer and I had many things happen that made us aware of Amma's > greatness. I will not ever forget and I hope I am forever humbled. > Amma is always working on this baby. > > in Amma's love, > adriane > > Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > I think Violet's point was that some of Amma's " very devoted " children > act like fanatics at times such that they actually cause harm to those > " outside " the group through a sort of persecution, if anyone questions > their religious authori-ty. > > In the interest of being defensive of spirituality, the acquisitive > ego may tend to see things through rose colored glasses while avoiding > anything that tends to be either contradictory or controversial. It > becomes very easy to consider someone's point of view as an outsider > when there is no insight at all into their perspective, or why they > may feel or think as they do. > > What this requires of everyone is deep introspection on all our parts > as to how we treat people who are devotees and people who are not, > especially when those who are not devotees are regarded as being > " materialistic " or " anti-religious " or against spirituality simply > because they may be either atheist, agnostic, or of a political > persuasion that favors an anti-religious point of view, or no point of > view at all. > > For the most part, it seems that those who actually do not believe > that religion has any benefits at all, often tend to look at the tacit > and conformist aspects of control that religious authority can confer > on " the righteous " - in other words, it becomes very easy to always be > right when we think that " God " is on our side - and that is a form of > religious fanaticism, or it can become so. > > So, I am very much in agreement with everything you just posted, > adriane! It was very well put, with those examples from Swamini's > book! That was kind of funny! Thanks! > > Moreover, the " realized " may not have any particular point of view > they hold at all! > > P. > > Ammachi , " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > I think Violet's point was that some of Amma's " very devoted " > children > > act like fanatics at times such that they actually cause harm to > those > > " outside " the group through a sort of persecution, if anyone > questions > > their religious authori-ty. > > > > In the interest of being defensive of spirituality, the acquisitive > > ego may tend to see things through rose colored glasses while > avoiding > > anything that tends to be either contradictory or controversial. It > > becomes very easy to consider someone's point of view as an outsider > > when there is no insight at all into their perspective, or why they > > may feel or think as they do. > > > > What this requires of everyone is deep introspection on all our > parts > > as to how we treat people who are devotees and people who are not, > > especially when those who are not devotees are regarded as being > > " materialistic " or " anti-religious " or against spirituality simply > > because they may be either atheist, agnostic, or of a political > > persuasion that favors an anti-religious point of view, or no point > of > > view at all. > > > > For the most part, it seems that those who actually do not believe > > that religion has any benefits at all, often tend to look at the > tacit > > and conformist aspects of control that religious authority can > confer > > on " the righteous " - in other words, it becomes very easy to always > be > > right when we think that " God " is on our side - and that is a form > of > > religious fanaticism, or it can become so. > > > > So, I am very much in agreement with everything you just posted, > > adriane! It was very well put, with those examples from Swamini's > > book! That was kind of funny! Thanks! > > > > Moreover, the " realized " may not have any particular point of view > > they hold at all! > > > > P. > > > > > > Ammachi , " n2amma " <a1driane@> wrote: > > > > > > Darlings and joy to all, > > > I reread this post and later realized that even an ANTI Amma > group > > > would hardly be objective! LOL..So consider this, trying to use > > > empirical data,- as in scientifically objective is impossible > with > > > regards to the spiritual realm. Science is > limited..and..lol..finding > > > someone " objective " -sheesh who has that anyway regarding > anything? We > > > all have opinions, beliefs and feelings that we use every day in > our > > > interpretation of the world. Even some reporters who tried to > > > be " objective " walked away changed from Amma's embrace. > > > > > > For those of us who are devoted to Amma, nothing else really > matters > > > much since we surrender all to Her beloved, lotus covered feet. > For > > > those of us who have her as our guru, we feel blessed, fortunate > and > > > immensely joyful beyond any words. Every day life is easier to > face- > > > no matter what obstacles come my way, at least. I know Amma is > always > > > with me. > > > > > > Swamini's new book (Torrential Love) had a great story in it-true > as > > > well. Her father is aging and longed to find this great peace and > joy > > > that Swamini also found in being with Amma. He trecked the same > Asian > > > countries and paths that she had taken early in her youth when > she > > > first discovered Amma. Once arriving at the ashram to meet Amma, > he > > > simply shook Her hand (though Amma gave him Her " hug " :)Once > finished > > > with his journeys, he felt pretty much unchanged and could not > figure > > > out what his daughter, Amma's right hand swamini, had found in > Her > > > presence. > > > > > > The moral of the story is we can copy others, do what they do in > > > spiritual practice, follow their guru around,-but we may not walk > > > away with the same results. It does require surrending your ego- > not > > > an easy task as someone else also pointed out. Simply doing the > walk > > > is not enough. > > > > > > in Amma's divine love always, > > > adriane > > > > > > > > > Ammachi , " violetdoves " <violetdoves@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > > > > > Perhaps this forum is not the best place to get an unbiased > answer. > > > > It's a little bit like going to the National Rifle Association > and > > > > explaining that you don't understand why guns should be legal. > > > Asking > > > > a swami would be the equivalent of asking Charlton Heston the > same. > > > > Consider your sources in your quest for unbiased answers. > > > > > > > > Devotees don't like questions like this, either. That may be > helpful > > > > to remember as well. When you ask questions like this, it tends > to > > > > threaten the good feelings that devotees have about Amma. Of > course, > > > > no one likes it when something meddles with their good feelings. > > > > > > > > Try the Ex Amma . They are a little more open to > > > > conversation about things like this over there. > > > > > > > > -Violet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 25, 2007 parzival35 <parzival2 wrote: Furthermore, this declaration of the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, and Brahma Sutras as the only genuine books of Hinduism probably comes from the Arya Samaj and Swami Dayanand Saraswati: http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/ <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/> http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154 <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda> Bull'seye, Parzival, I am brought up in Arya Samaj family, I was planning to respond to Narendra's email. However, due to time constraints I couldn't reply. There is great difference between 'Sruti' and a 'Smriti' Gita and Bhgavatham are entirely distinct and products of two different time periods. Anyway, I will respond later when time permits. Aum Avinash Recent Activity 2 New Members Visit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. HotJobs Career change time? Explore companies and new careers Mail You're invited! Try the all-new Mail Beta . Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Games. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 25, 2007 Sporse, Bhagavtham is very recent and no way related to Mahabarath. Bhagavtham or 'Srimad Bhagavatham' orginated when Sri Vaishnava movement became popular, Post Sri-Ramanujacharya (11th century) of Visista-Advaitya. Its essentilay a epic of Vaishnava Sect. Aum Avinash sprose1 wrote: In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:38:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi writes: No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. My understanding is that the same guy, Vyasa, wrote the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam and the Brahma Sutra, so it would be hard to believe that one of his works is legitimate and the other " mere stories. " why would he do such a thing write one legitimate work and one illegitimate work? Furthermore, the Gita is part of the Mahabharata, so if the latter is dismissed as illegitimate, then how could the former be legitimate? Where are our Vedic scholars when you need them? Avram, legitimately illegitimate ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2007 In a message dated 7/26/2007 4:53:12 PM Mountain Daylight Time, manoj_menon writes: the Bhagavatham is not a Vedic scripture; it is a Purana. important difference. I was thinking that myself. Vedic scriptures are the Vedas. Supplimentary scriptures are just that, supplimentary per each of the sects. ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2007 Avinash, Please do not spread false information on this public forum. You are 100% wrong. As far as the knowledge contained in Bhgavatham it has always existed. However in the current form it's a conversation between Sree Sukadeva and Maharaja Parikchit. It has been written by Veda Vyasa himself. Actually if any one even reads the first few chapters from a proper teacher, I can promise you that you will get hooked. Its that beautiful. That's why I was so shocked when it was said that Bhgavatham is false or that Krishna never had 16,108 wives. Either we have to accept Vedic scriptures or not accept them at all. But accepting some and not the other is complete BS. I have also been reading some books on Amma and its pretty obvious if you cared to look that Amma herself claims that she is a avatar. There are quotes straight from Amma's own publications. Even Krishna never openly declared that he was God. This information was only known to a very select few. Think about it, if Duryodhana knew Krishna was Lord Krishna would he have dared to fight - NO. Its only now that we worship Krishna as the Lord. BTW Krishna lifted Govardhana mountain and performed many other miracles. Through out our history we have examples of bonafide Krishna devotees. If Amma is a avatar every single statement of hers MUST be true. Since she is perfect, she can never make a false statement. This is quite disturbing. Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of avinash ramidi Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:18 AM Ammachi Re: Re: A sincere question Sporse, Bhagavtham is very recent and no way related to Mahabarath. Bhagavtham or 'Srimad Bhagavatham' orginated when Sri Vaishnava movement became popular, Post Sri-Ramanujacharya (11th century) of Visista-Advaitya. Its essentilay a epic of Vaishnava Sect. Aum Avinash sprose1 <sprose1%40aol.com> wrote: In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:38:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Ammachi <Ammachi%40> writes: No swami was able to explain to > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . Instead of > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever says this > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. My understanding is that the same guy, Vyasa, wrote the Mahabharata and the Bhagavatam and the Brahma Sutra, so it would be hard to believe that one of his works is legitimate and the other " mere stories. " why would he do such a thing write one legitimate work and one illegitimate work? Furthermore, the Gita is part of the Mahabharata, so if the latter is dismissed as illegitimate, then how could the former be legitimate? Where are our Vedic scholars when you need them? Avram, legitimately illegitimate ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 26, 2007 You are confusing two stories. Rasa Lila is very different from the marriage with 16,108 wives. He never married any of the gopies. I think you are totally confusing two stories. Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of parzival35 Monday, July 23, 2007 8:03 PM Ammachi Re: A sincere question Dear Narendra, I believe it is actually the story of the 16,000 gopis you refer to, when Krishna manifested himself in 16,000 forms, one for each, and made love to each one in the way she most desired. I don't believe these gopis were ever " wives " in any sense so much as lovers of Krishna. This appears not only in the Bhagavatam but also in the Skanda Purana and some bhakti poetry of Krishna devotion. It is a well known account of rasa lila. The rasa lila is metaphoric. It shouldn't necessarily be read as literal, such that any swami would feel the need to declare poetry or myth as " just stories " - that misses the entire point of the play. http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/mamata.html <http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/mamata.html> http://krsnabook.com/ch31.html <http://krsnabook.com/ch31.html> http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/andal_marvelly.htm <http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/andal_marvelly.htm> Furthermore, this declaration of the Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, and Brahma Sutras as the only genuine books of Hinduism probably comes from the Arya Samaj and Swami Dayanand Saraswati: http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/ <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/> http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154 <http://www.aryasamaj.org/newsite/node/154> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Dayananda> P. Ammachi <Ammachi%40> , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Well this was on Tuesday evening during the Question and Answer session. > This has nothing to do with since I did not ask the question. There was some > other devotee who asked AMma the question regarding Krishn'a 16,108 wives. > There were many people who heard this answer. I don't know how many present > there were bothered enough to try and get to the bottom of this. > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> ] On Behalf Of > parzival35 > Monday, July 23, 2007 4:48 AM > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> > Re: A sincere question > > > > Did anyone else hear this about Amma's comments on the Bhagavatam and > Mahabharata at the Boston retreat? I am only inquiring to know more > about context and if this was an extended discussion, or only very > brief answer to a question or two. > > P. > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> , > " Narendra Kulkarni " nkulki@ wrote: > > > > >>> If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > > >>> they may not understand. > > > > > > > > Point well taken. What is it that you suggest then? > > > > > > > > About the swami's being rude to me, it doesn't directly concern me. > However > > it does reflect upon the quality of these swami's. One measure of how > > spiritually advanced a person is to see the humility within the > person. If > > the swami is too busy to talk that's perfectly understandable, > however when > > they are rude that's not cool. I expect much higher standard's from > swami's > > as compared to us regular folks. > > > > > > > > In any case I am not here to talk trash about anyone. In such a case > it's > > only my loss. What started all this off was when Amma said that > Bhagavatham > > and Mahabharat are just stories. This is something she said in a public > > forum - Boston retreat. I tried my best to get to the bottom of this > > statement and therefore asked other swami's. No swami was able to > explain to > > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . > Instead of > > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever > says this > > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > > > > > > > From whatever little Bhagavatham I have read, I have grown really > fond of > > it. Its pretty obvious to me that this is no " story " . Just reading > this book > > has changed my life. So when a great leader such as Amma said that > > Bhgavatham is just a story, I had to get to the bottom of this. > There are > > only two possibilities. Amma is right in which case Bhagavatham is a > story > > or Amma is wrong in which case, I have no idea what the implications > are if > > Amma is wrong. > > > > > > > > Since then I talked to other Amma's devotees in Seattle. To my great > shock I > > found that my merely questioning Amma's words automatically made me a > > " sinner " . This kind of blind belief is completely anti-hindu. In Bhgavad > > Gita and Bhgavatham Krishna has on many occasions clearly stated that a > > person must use his intelligence to the best of his abilities. At no > point > > is it ever mentioned that a devotee should close his eyes and > blindly follow > > his guru. > > > > > > > > This statement by Amma has lead me to question why is it that her > devotee's > > consider her a devi. What is the spiritual backing of this movement? > Why is > > the whole organization centered one human being instead of Krishna. > Why is > > Amma worshipped as a devi instead of as a sad-guru. As someone has > rightly > > pointed out, the position of a sad-guru is even higher than that of > Devi. > > Therefore there is no insult in worshipping Amma as a sad-guru > instead of as > > devi. Since I could not directly question Amma, I thought of looking > at the > > next best thing, her direct disciples. I can understand Malayalam > very well. > > So I was listening to their conversations. 100% of their > conversation was > > extremely materialistic. When I tried to talk to them, no one tried > to clear > > my questions. I spoke with some of the other devotees there. I heard > some > > rather scary stories on how Amma said one thing during one meeting > and the > > exact opposite thing in the next meeting. At the same time I hear > miracle > > stories, how Amma cured some disease, how Amma helped them. I can > also see > > how Amma is helping millions of poor people. So this only caused more > > confusion and therefore my emails on this forum. > > > > > > > > -Narendra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> ] On > Behalf Of > > ckeniley2003 > > Friday, July 20, 2007 3:23 PM > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > > Re: A sincere question...,,some perspective > > > > > > > > To be more accurate, most people will not follow Amma, most people > > will not feel drawn to going to Amma. Then, of those who come, nbot > > all will get it, or spend enough time around Amma being quiet enough > > to get it. If someone just goes to one Devi Bhava for a few hours, > > they may not understand. > > > > Personally, I have not noticed that the swamis spend time > > with " pretty women " . that does not seem accurate to me. They do spend > > a lot of time with Indian families though, and that is part of their > > role. > > > > Peace, > > Chris > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> , > > " parzival35 " <parzival2@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Narendra, > > > > > > You have solved your own problem. > > > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > that > > > what I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > > just > > > because 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > You don't require anyone else to clear your doubts. " Pretty > > women " can > > > distract even the most devoted when they see how many of them there > > are > > > " out there " !!! > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> , > > " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I personally have had no " magical " experiences with Amma. I > > have > > > made > > > > an honest attempt to talk to some of the swami's present. What > > bothers > > > me > > > > greatly is to see the swami's spent inordinate amount of time > > talking > > > to > > > > pretty women while completely ignoring me and my mom. And trust > > me, I > > > wasn't > > > > rude to anyone. I asked some of the swami's about what the whole > > > philosophy > > > > of the organization is beyond " love " and hugging people. I am not > > > trying to > > > > down play the importance of love, but having faith in a person > > without > > > > knowledge is very dangerous. I found it very disconcerting that I > > > wasn't > > > > able to find anyone who was willing to explain my questions and > > clear > > > my > > > > doubts. > > > > I am the kind of person who will follow 100% once I am convinced > > > that what > > > > I am doing is correct. However I will not believe in something > > just > > > because > > > > 100 other people are following some idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > [Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> ] On > > > Behalf Of > > > > Mary Beth Hayman > > > > Thursday, July 19, 2007 10:40 AM > > > > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > Re: A sincere question > > > > > > > > Here are Amma's words... > > > > > > > > " The Inner Mother, whose true nature is infinitude and silence, > > > manifests > > > > visibly through this body so that her children can have a glimpse > > of > > > the > > > > Mother who is deep within. The body is powerful; it has the power > > to > > > express > > > > > > > > the infinite inner power. The reason this external Mother exists > > is to > > > help > > > > you reach the Inner Mother, the Mother of the " Mind of minds. " The > > > Inner > > > > Mother has none of the external qualities. It is totally silent > > and > > > > attributeless in the " Mind of minds. " Silence is the language of > > this > > > Inner > > > > Mother. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Pranada S. " daughterpranada@ > > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > >Ammachi <Ammachi%40> <Ammachi%40> > <Ammachi%40> > > > > >Re: A sincere question > > > > >Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:50:06 -0400 > > > > > > > > > >Namah Shivaya, Narendra, > > > > > > > > > >I am not by any stretch of the imagination a " senior " member of > > this > > > > >forum, nor could I begin to speak to the Krishna story, but I can > > > tell > > > > >you that Amma has said that all of creation was Her guru. She > > has > > > > >also said that Her mother, Damayanti-amma, was Her guru in a > > sense, > > > > >because she inculcated Her with such attention to detail, > > charity, > > > and > > > > >cleanliness. > > > > > > > > > >I also believe that Jesus Christ was an avatar. Yet if He had a > > > guru, > > > > >that knowledge has been lost to us. > > > > > > > > > >Whether or not a guru is present in the body, or named, does that > > > > >change what is? > > > > > > > > > >Amma has been asked in the past why everyone is worshipping > > Her. She > > > > >answered that actually She is the one worshipping them. She > > sees God > > > > >within everyone and She bows down to that. > > > > > > > > > >When people first started to come to Amma, She tried to shoo them > > > away > > > > >and drive them off, but because of their deep love for Her, they > > > could > > > > >not stand to leave, so finally She relented and allowed them to > > stay. > > > > >I don't think that She is concerned with whether there is a large > > > > >organization around Her. She has said that even if all Her > > swamis > > > > >were to leave the ashram, She would continue to do what She is > > doing > > > - > > > > >to embrace, to help the suffering. > > > > > > > > > >She has also said that today people might call Her Devi, tomorrow > > > they > > > > >might call Her a devil. She doesn't care. > > > > > > > > > >Ultimately, I think that there is no substitute for witnessing, > > > > >first-hand, Her physical presence and the transformation > > within. I > > > > >absolutely do believe that Amma is Devi, not because of what > > anyone > > > > >has told me, but because of my own feelings and experiences. > > But I > > > > >can't give that belief to anyone else. > > > > > > > > > >On the intellectual level, it is simply impossible to grasp what > > Amma > > > > >is. If we try only intellectually, we will come to false > > conclusion > > > > >after false conclusion, positive and negative alike. I think > > that > > > > >intellect and discernment are not to be abandoned, by any > > stretch; > > > > >only recognized as not the ultimate arbiter when it comes to the > > > > >nature of a Satguru or avatar. > > > > > > > > > >I don't understand Amma at all; the more I try, the more I find > > that > > > > >She is unknowable. It is actually kind of a relief: She is not, > > > > >cannot be, limited to any intellectual conception of Her that I > > may > > > > >come up with. > > > > > > > > > >Jai Ma, > > > > >Pranada > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 7/18/07, Narendra Kulkarni nkulki@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thank you for your response. I do agree with your point > > that > > > > >ultimately > > > > > > only I can figure out who Amma is. Even if someone else tells > > me > > > who > > > > >Amma > > > > > > is, I still won't understand. > > > > > > > > > >[text snipped by moderator] > > > > > > > > ________ > > > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! > > > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 27, 2007 Let me take a moment to ask what does this mean? " Either we have to accept Vedic scriptures or not accept them at all. But accepting some and not the other is complete BS. " He already pointed out that there is a difference between Sruti and Smriti. This should even be evident in the use of Sanskrit language in all different forms of Sanskrit literature. I don't see how this is BS, Narendra. Call one thing a scripture and another not a scripture simply because a text might be dated differently? But what is the message within the text itself? Is that not the point? What does the Srimad Bhagavatam convey? P. Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Avinash, > > Please do not spread false information on this public forum. You are 100% > wrong. As far as the knowledge contained in Bhgavatham it has always > existed. However in the current form it's a conversation between Sree > Sukadeva and Maharaja Parikchit. It has been written by Veda Vyasa himself. > Actually if any one even reads the first few chapters from a proper teacher, > I can promise you that you will get hooked. Its that beautiful. > > > > That's why I was so shocked when it was said that Bhgavatham is false or > that Krishna never had 16,108 wives. Either we have to accept Vedic > scriptures or not accept them at all. But accepting some and not the other > is complete BS. > > I have also been reading some books on Amma and its pretty obvious if you > cared to look that Amma herself claims that she is a avatar. There are > quotes straight from Amma's own publications. Even Krishna never openly > declared that he was God. This information was only known to a very select > few. Think about it, if Duryodhana knew Krishna was Lord Krishna would he > have dared to fight - NO. Its only now that we worship Krishna as the Lord. > BTW Krishna lifted Govardhana mountain and performed many other miracles. > Through out our history we have examples of bonafide Krishna devotees. > > > > If Amma is a avatar every single statement of hers MUST be true. Since she > is perfect, she can never make a false statement. This is quite disturbing. > > > > Ammachi [Ammachi ] On Behalf Of > avinash ramidi > Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:18 AM > Ammachi > Re: Re: A sincere question > > > > Sporse, > > Bhagavtham is very recent and no way related to Mahabarath. Bhagavtham or > 'Srimad Bhagavatham' orginated when Sri Vaishnava movement became popular, > Post Sri-Ramanujacharya (11th century) of Visista-Advaitya. Its essentilay a > epic of Vaishnava Sect. > > Aum > Avinash > > sprose1 <sprose1%40aol.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/24/2007 2:38:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Ammachi <Ammachi%40> writes: > > No swami was able to > explain to > > me why Bhagavtham and Mahabharat are considered " just stories " . > Instead of > > trying to clear my confusion they seemed to be pissed off with me and > > completely avoided the question. I am even willing to entertain the > > possibility that these books are " just stories " . However whoever > says this > > must back this up. I further enquired what books are considered genuine. > > Apparently only upanishad's, Gita and Brahma Sutra are proper books. > > Apparently even the Vedas are bogus. > > My understanding is that the same guy, Vyasa, wrote the Mahabharata and the > Bhagavatam and the Brahma Sutra, so it would be hard to believe that one of > his works is legitimate and the other " mere stories. " why would he do such a > > thing write one legitimate work and one illegitimate work? Furthermore, the > Gita is part of the Mahabharata, so if the latter is dismissed as > illegitimate, > then how could the former be legitimate? > > Where are our Vedic scholars when you need them? > > Avram, legitimately illegitimate > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL > at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 27, 2007 Amma IS an AVATAR. No doubt. Not disturbing to me at all. Why is that disturbing? Krishna never married anyone from what I know. Many women longed for Krishna but he never married any gopis or any women from my limited understanding. Everything Amma speaks are pearls of love from God divine. JAI MA! love adriane Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > Avinash, > > Please do not spread false information on this public forum. You are 100% > wrong. As far as the knowledge contained in Bhgavatham it has always > existed. However in the current form it's a conversation between Sree > Sukadeva and Maharaja Parikchit. It has been written by Veda Vyasa himself. > Actually if any one even reads the first few chapters from a proper teacher, > I can promise you that you will get hooked. Its that beautiful. > > > > That's why I was so shocked when it was said that Bhgavatham is false or > that Krishna never had 16,108 wives. Either we have to accept Vedic > scriptures or not accept them at all. But accepting some and not the other > is complete BS. > \ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 27, 2007 Ammachi , " Narendra Kulkarni " <nkulki wrote: > > > That's why I was so shocked when it was said that Bhgavatham is > false or > that Krishna never had 16,108 wives. Either we have to accept Vedic > scriptures or not accept them at all. But accepting some and not > the other is complete BS. > the Bhagavatham is not a Vedic scripture; it is a Purana. important difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
