Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2009 It's really interesting Dear Punitji. I mean to say regarding the verification and rectification of brth time. Verification means whether the time is correct or otherwise. If one can find out the correctness by verification he can also find out the way to correct if itis found to be incorrect. And the way of doing it is rectification. I hope I am correct. The multiplicity of the Rules explained by Sri Shanmugham bring-forths complicacy in BTR. How ever it can't be ingnored with trying to study its validity. Let us see what Senthil and me could do on this issue. I hope Senthil will come forward. My regards. Dr. Rath Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2009 Dear Lajmiji, Now I understand that you also include the sub-sub lord of the Ascendant; so the chances are doubled. How long should we be streatching the methods. Dr. Rath Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: Punit Pandey <punitpSun, November 15, 2009 7:41:57 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Punit, I follow most of the methods discussed in the interesting New book published by K.Subramaniam, "Rectification of Birth Time"... one by one depending upon whether the one arrived at satisfies the results expected or confirms results already experienced, as per the Dasa-Bhukti- Antharas. .. If the Given Birth Time,for correction is + or - 20 minutes from the true TOB...Mr.Shanmugham 's 1st method works out to be very correct...I have modified this method over the years,to include the sub-sublords of the Ascendant to also apear as the Moon's sublord... With kind regards, Yogesh Lajmi --- On Sun, 11/15/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comSunday, November 15, 2009, 12:22 PM Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > To: @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 26, 2009 Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 29, 2009 dear sir, i like to quote what ksk said about BTRin horary astrology reader vi Note the constallation in which lagna at the moment of judgement falls;than the lord of sign where ascendant is;find out in which constellation,moon is passing and know the lord of constellation and lord of rasi.you for the astrological purposes,take that the sunriseto next sunrise is a day.therefore,know the lord of the day.hence these five planets happen to be the rulling planets.. write down all these ruling planets.note which are deposited in the constallation of the planets in retrogade motion,reject them.then take those planets which are in constalletion of the planets in direct motion.you have to select the ascendant. it will fall in a sign and in that in a star and in that star in a sub and in that sub in a sub sub. the lords of all these must agree with theruling planets at the moment of judgement. if you get some three positions in the zodiac,you enquire the consultant whether he was born in the morning or day time or noght ; according to the date of birth find out in which sign he could have born.then in that sign select the constellation and sub governed by ruling planets.then this is the exact position of lagna. this method recommended is tested with many horoscopes of people knowing their bithtime found working satisfactorily. shrikant jinral shrikantjin Luther Rath <rathluther Sent: Thu, 26 November, 2009 10:08:27 AMRe: Re: BTR Theory Sorry to intervene. I may be excused. Mother is 100 % sure while father is not. But it should be a trade secret for all astrologers. Dr. Rath. "santhosh10@ " <santhosh10 >@gro ups.comFri, November 13, 2009 5:21:45 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes Santhosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST) <@gro ups.com> Cc: <Santhosh10 > Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Santhosh Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! ! It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel "vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000 <@gro ups.com> Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Dear Srikant, There quite a few methods for Rectification of Birth Time...recently a book,dedicated to this subject alone has been published wher many methods have been discussed...including the one mentioned by you... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi.--- On Sun, 11/29/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjinRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "punit pandey" <punitpSunday, November 29, 2009, 6:13 PM dear sir, i like to quote what ksk said about BTRin horary astrology reader vi Note the constallation in which lagna at the moment of judgement falls;than the lord of sign where ascendant is;find out in which constellation, moon is passing and know the lord of constellation and lord of rasi.you for the astrological purposes,take that the sunriseto next sunrise is a day.therefore, know the lord of the day.hence these five planets happen to be the rulling planets.. write down all these ruling planets.note which are deposited in the constallation of the planets in retrogade motion,reject them.then take those planets which are in constalletion of the planets in direct motion.you have to select the ascendant. it will fall in a sign and in that in a star and in that star in a sub and in that sub in a sub sub. the lords of all these must agree with theruling planets at the moment of judgement. if you get some three positions in the zodiac,you enquire the consultant whether he was born in the morning or day time or noght ; according to the date of birth find out in which sign he could have born.then in that sign select the constellation and sub governed by ruling planets.then this is the exact position of lagna. this method recommended is tested with many horoscopes of people knowing their bithtime found working satisfactorily. shrikant jinral shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 10:08:27 AMRe: Re: BTR Theory Sorry to intervene. I may be excused. Mother is 100 % sure while father is not. But it should be a trade secret for all astrologers. Dr. Rath. "santhosh10@ " <santhosh10 >@gro ups.comFri, November 13, 2009 5:21:45 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes Santhosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST) <@gro ups.com> Cc: <Santhosh10 > Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Santhosh Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! ! It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel "vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000 <@gro ups.com> Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 30, 2009 Dear Santosh, This is in reply to your mail about considering the Vth house for the male,or husband,regarding childbirth... Kindly refer Krishnamurthi Padhdhati Reader IV,p.227,(eleventh edition), 2006,wherein it is clearly stated that if the query is from the male (horary query),the XIth house is to be judged first,and then the Vth house... I hope this clarifies the issue,once,and for all... ! With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! --- On Sun, 11/29/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjinRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "punit pandey" <punitpSunday, November 29, 2009, 6:13 PM dear sir, i like to quote what ksk said about BTRin horary astrology reader vi Note the constallation in which lagna at the moment of judgement falls;than the lord of sign where ascendant is;find out in which constellation, moon is passing and know the lord of constellation and lord of rasi.you for the astrological purposes,take that the sunriseto next sunrise is a day.therefore, know the lord of the day.hence these five planets happen to be the rulling planets.. write down all these ruling planets.note which are deposited in the constallation of the planets in retrogade motion,reject them.then take those planets which are in constalletion of the planets in direct motion.you have to select the ascendant. it will fall in a sign and in that in a star and in that star in a sub and in that sub in a sub sub. the lords of all these must agree with theruling planets at the moment of judgement. if you get some three positions in the zodiac,you enquire the consultant whether he was born in the morning or day time or noght ; according to the date of birth find out in which sign he could have born.then in that sign select the constellation and sub governed by ruling planets.then this is the exact position of lagna. this method recommended is tested with many horoscopes of people knowing their bithtime found working satisfactorily. shrikant jinral shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 10:08:27 AMRe: Re: BTR Theory Sorry to intervene. I may be excused. Mother is 100 % sure while father is not. But it should be a trade secret for all astrologers. Dr. Rath. "santhosh10@ " <santhosh10 >@gro ups.comFri, November 13, 2009 5:21:45 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes Santhosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST) <@gro ups.com> Cc: <Santhosh10 > Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Santhosh Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! ! It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel "vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000 <@gro ups.com> Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 1, 2009 Dear Friends, For those friends willing to expand their knowledge on BTR, please visit my friend Krishnamurthy Seetarama''s blog >>> http:// astrokrishna.blogspot.com. Recently in another group he dealt with multiple births'issue. Regards, Satish--- On Mon, 11/30/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "santhosh10" <santhosh10Monday, November 30, 2009, 8:33 PM Dear Santosh, This is in reply to your mail about considering the Vth house for the male,or husband,regarding childbirth.. . Kindly refer Krishnamurthi Padhdhati Reader IV,p.227,(eleventh edition), 2006,wherein it is clearly stated that if the query is from the male (horary query),the XIth house is to be judged first,and then the Vth house... I hope this clarifies the issue,once,and for all... ! With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! --- On Sun, 11/29/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: "punit pandey" <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Sunday, November 29, 2009, 6:13 PM dear sir, i like to quote what ksk said about BTRin horary astrology reader vi Note the constallation in which lagna at the moment of judgement falls;than the lord of sign where ascendant is;find out in which constellation, moon is passing and know the lord of constellation and lord of rasi.you for the astrological purposes,take that the sunriseto next sunrise is a day.therefore, know the lord of the day.hence these five planets happen to be the rulling planets.. write down all these ruling planets.note which are deposited in the constallation of the planets in retrogade motion,reject them.then take those planets which are in constalletion of the planets in direct motion.you have to select the ascendant. it will fall in a sign and in that in a star and in that star in a sub and in that sub in a sub sub. the lords of all these must agree with theruling planets at the moment of judgement. if you get some three positions in the zodiac,you enquire the consultant whether he was born in the morning or day time or noght ; according to the date of birth find out in which sign he could have born.then in that sign select the constellation and sub governed by ruling planets.then this is the exact position of lagna. this method recommended is tested with many horoscopes of people knowing their bithtime found working satisfactorily. shrikant jinral shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther >@gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 10:08:27 AMRe: Re: BTR Theory Sorry to intervene. I may be excused. Mother is 100 % sure while father is not. But it should be a trade secret for all astrologers. Dr. Rath. "santhosh10@ " <santhosh10 >@gro ups.comFri, November 13, 2009 5:21:45 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Yogeshji, when u look at it so coldly, i think i should agree will agree with you. Anyway, since thats not always the case, i believe it wont be a bad idea to check fathers 5th house with childs 9th house.Best wishes Santhosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:44:58 -0800 (PST) <@gro ups.com> Cc: <Santhosh10 > Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Santhosh Cold logic alone,supports the view that only the mother knows for sure as to who is the Father of her child...! ! It would'nt it therefore be very logical to prefer to take the mother's Vth cusp... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! santhosh10 <santhosh10 >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 2:46 PM Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthosh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel "vijay.goel" <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000 <@gro ups.com> Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2009 dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra.it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin Luther Rath <rathluther Sent: Thu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ >@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. 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Guest guest Report post Posted December 19, 2009 Dear Shrikant ji, Rectifying the 7th Cuspal SubLord from the RP's as advocated by him , is undersrandable, but can you please provide the reference - Book Name and Page number, where he has mentioned about 7th Cuspal SubSublord also being rectified by the RP's ? regards/Bhaskar. , j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: > > dear sir, >            I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of >  maharashtra.it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the > ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord &  subsublord > should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord > using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk. > thanks & regards > shrikantjin > > > > > ________________________________ > Luther Rath <rathluther > > Thu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >  > Dear Kalyanji, > I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. > Dr. Rath > > > > > ________________________________ > Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > > @gro ups.com > Sun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PM > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >  > Dear Friends, > > BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution. > KP s of past have discussed. > Now, we KPs are discussing. > New comers will be discussed. > till the end of the era. > > Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future? > No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread. > > We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings. > Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji? > Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time. > Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory. > > Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in > A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members. > // " My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the " time " which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction " >    Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of " Astrology and Athrishtra " from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under. > ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... . > ............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ..// > //Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati " // > > //What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. . " // > //One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the " Ruling Planets " reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the " Ruling Planets " at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.// > > > Regards > > Kalyan > > > > > ________________________________ > Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > @gro ups.com > Sun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PM > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >  > Dear Vijay ji, > > I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. " > > Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. > > After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > > > On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > > >>Dear Punitji, > >> > >>//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically// > >> > >>Nice to see the use of word Holistically . > >> > >>***** > >> > >>Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all, > >> > >>I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star? > >>II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ? > >> > >>I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts. > >> > >>Thanking you, > >>Regards, > >>Vijay Goel > >>Jaipur. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@> wrote: > >>> > >>> Dear Friends, > >>> > >>> Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies > >>> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study > >>> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my > >>> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr. > >>> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned. > >>> > >>> I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record > >>> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the > >>> conditions (a to d)? > >>> > >>> Thanks & Regards, > >>> > >>> Punit Pandey > >>> > >> > >>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote: > >>> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all, > >>> > > >>> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP†" Part II " (M/s. > >>> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows : > >>> > > >>> > In his own words: > >>> > > >>> > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the > >>> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the > >>> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth > >>> > Star will be more correct. " > >>> > > >>> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star. > >>> > > >>> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent. > >>> > I) 'X' could be moon's star. > >>> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]* > >>> > > >>> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that > >>> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star. > >>> > * > >>> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y', > >>> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star > >>> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )] > >>> > > >>> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that > >>> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will > >>> > be the Birth Star. > >>> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then > >>> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama). > >>> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star. > >>> > * > >>> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub > >>> > (SS) is not taken here.]* > >>> > > >>> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a > >>> > Star†" Sub†" SubSub†" SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which > >>> > should tell the Birth Star. > >>> > > >>> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's > >>> > star.]* > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) , > >>> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such > >>> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone. > >>> > > >>> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as > >>> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth > >>> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to > >>> > Sookshama level at times. " * > >>> > > >>> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had > >>> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other > >>> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and > >>> > probabilites ratio will increase. > >>> > > >>> > Thankyou, > >>> > Regards, > >>> > Vijay Goel > >>> > Jaipur. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > Dear Senthil, > >>> > >                  The objective is to confirm the > >>> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned > >>> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... > >>> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of > >>> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... > >>> > >                   BTR is as simple as that... > >>> > > >>> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > >>> > > > >>> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@ > >>> > > >>> > > Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >  > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > Dear Senthil ji, > >>> > > > >>> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : > >>> > > > >>> > > Rule 3: > >>> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. > >>> > method).... > >>> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the > >>> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord > >>> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a > >>> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " > >>> > > > >>> > > Rule 4 : > >>> > > > >>> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given > >>> > TOB... > >>> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of > >>> > the IXth cusp... > >>> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul > >>> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth > >>> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama > >>> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am > >>> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... > >>> > > > >>> > > ************ *** > >>> > > > >>> > > Thankyou, > >>> > > > >>> > > Best Wishes, > >>> > > Vijay Goel > >>> > > Jaipur. > >>> > > > >>> > > --- > >>> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time > >>> > being. We will talk about one RULE first. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > RULE:1 > >>> > > > ********* > >>> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) , > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values > >>> > up to Seconds) > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l > >>> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with > >>> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More > >>> > FAILURE results noticed). > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? > >>> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his > >>> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) > >>> > about this RULE alone. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > RULE:2 > >>> > > > ********* > >>> > > >>> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > >>> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a > >>> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be > >>> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from > >>> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses > >>> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that > >>> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth > >>> > Chart...and so on... > >>> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Reply: > >>> > > > ==== > >>> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. > >>> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many > >>> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > Other RULES > >>> > > > ========= > >>> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience > >>> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not > >>> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be > >>> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, > >>> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for > >>> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling > >>> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s > >>> > review comments. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > GOOD LUCK! > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > D.Senthil > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> > >>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .> > >>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Senthil, > >>> > > > > >>> >                   You > >>> > seem to be " at it " again... > >>> > > > > >>> >                   Why > >>> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research > >>> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your > >>> > point ? > >>> > > >                  > >>> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule > >>> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your > >>> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " > >>> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. .. > >>> > > >>> > > >                  As > >>> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you > >>> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to > >>> > Ms.Sujata Das... > >>> > > > > >>> >                   On > >>> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that > >>> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR > >>> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly > >>> > as per D/B/A/S ...? ! > >>> > > >                  I > >>> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub > >>> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub > >>> > level... > >>> > > >                  > >>> > With best wishes, > >>> > > >                  > >>> > Yogesh Lajmi. > >>> > > > > >>> >                                             > >>> > GOOD LUCK ! > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Senthil athi_ram > > >>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Cc: rathluther > >>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position > >>> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac > >>> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given > >>> > below. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Hr.No. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RASI > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Sgn > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Str > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Sub > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Degree > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Diff. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 000:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 000:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 003:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 003:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 5 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 004:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 6 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 005:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 7 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 007:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 8 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 009:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 9 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 10 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 013:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 11 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 015:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 12 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 016:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 13 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 017:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 14 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 018:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 012:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 15 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 020:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 16 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 021:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 17 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 024:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 18 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 025:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 19 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 026:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 027:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 21 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 028:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 22 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA1 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 029:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 23 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 030:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 24 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 031:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 25 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 033:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 26 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 035:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 27 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 037:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 28 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 037:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 29 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 040:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 30 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 041:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 31 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 041:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 32 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 043:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 33 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 045:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 34 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 047:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 35 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 049:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 36 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 050:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 37 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 052:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 38 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 053:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 39 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 054:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 012:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 056:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 41 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA2 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 057:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 42 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 060:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 43 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 061:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 44 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 062:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 45 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 064:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 46 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 065:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 47 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 066:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 012:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 48 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 068:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 49 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 070:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 50 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 072:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 51 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 074:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 52 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 075:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 53 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 077:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 54 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 078:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 55 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 079:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 56 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 080:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 57 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 081:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 58 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 083:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 59 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 085:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 60 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 086:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 61 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 088:46:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 62 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA3 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 089:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 63 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 090:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 64 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 090:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 65 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 091:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 024:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 66 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 093:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 67 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 095:26:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 68 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 097:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 69 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 098:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 70 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 100:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 71 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 101:00:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 72 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 102:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 73 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 102:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 74 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 104:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 75 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 106:40:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 76 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > KET > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 108:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 77 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > VEN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 109:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 78 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SUN > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 111:33:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 79 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 112:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 80 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MAR > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 113:20:00 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 81 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RAH > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 114:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 011:13:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 82 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > JUP > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 116:06:40 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 83 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > RA4 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MOO > >>> > > > > >>> > > > MER > >>> > > > > >>> > > > SAT > >>> > > > > >>> > > > 117:53:20 > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of > >>> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you > >>> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in > >>> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min > >>> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the > >>> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes > >>> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours > >>> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's > >>> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no > >>> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of > >>> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two > >>> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it > >>> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that > >>> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is > >>> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can > >>> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can > >>> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > GOOD LUCK! > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > D.Senthil > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > >>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Sir, > >>> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as > >>> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in > >>> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the > >>> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So > >>> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when > >>> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then > >>> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > >>> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :- > >>> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40 > >>> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00 > >>> > > > Pisces        1-20-00 > >>> > > > Pisces      12-53-20 > >>> > > > Pisces      24-06-40 > >>> > > > Aries         5-33-20 > >>> > > > Aries       18-06-40 > >>> > > > Aries      29-13-20 > >>> > > > Taurus     11-53-20 > >>> > > > Taurus     24-06-40 > >>> > > > Gemini       6-40-00 > >>> > > > Cancer      1-20-00 > >>> > > > Cancer     24-06-40 > >>> > > >>> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall > >>> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in > >>> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is > >>> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my > >>> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable > >>> > rule. > >>> > > > Dr. Rath > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Senthil athi_ram > > >>> > > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > >>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there > >>> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of > >>> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > GOOD LUCK! > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > D.Senthil > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > >>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Senthil, > >>> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 > >>> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next > >>> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I > >>> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 > >>> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying > >>> > the rule in question while conducting BTR. > >>> > > > Dr. Rath > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Senthil athi_ram > > >>> > > > mssumich mssumich > > >>> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com > >>> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM > >>> > > > Re: BTR Theory > >>> > > > > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear MS. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for > >>> > Population Statistics. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >>> > > > > >>> >                                                > >>> > =14708.95833 per hour > >>> > > > > >>> >                                                > >>> > = 245.1493056 per minute > >>> > > > > >>> >                                                > >>> > = 4.085821759 per second. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the > >>> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will > >>> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen > >>> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree > >>> > orb. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > Hope the above gives the required information. > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > GOOD LUCK! > >>> > > >  > >>> > > > D.Senthil > >>> > > >  > >>> > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > mssumich mssumich > > >>> > > > BTR Theory > >>> > > > " Senthil " athi_ram > > >>> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear Shri Senthil > >>> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many > >>> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord > >>> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of > >>> > the proof you gave is very clear. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > >>> > > > Thanks > >>> > > > MS > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Dear TinWin, > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > >>> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the > >>> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) > >>> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON > >>> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the > >>> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect > >>> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > >>> > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical > >>> > example and thanks for the same. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > GOOD LUCK! > >>> > > > > >>> > > > D.Senthil > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >> > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. http://in./ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Respected Yogesh Lajmiji I have gone through your messeges related to BTR. All are very informative, invaluable for learners of kp system. Thanx and Regards Anjna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Dear Members, See the Message ID for the discussion about RBT Rule(Asc Sub = Moon Star Rule) : /message/9596 GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Sun, 12/20/09, anjna agarwal <anu0562 wrote: anjna agarwal <anu0562Re: Re: BTR Theory , "Yogesh Lajmi" <yogeshlajmiSunday, December 20, 2009, 1:00 AM Respected Yogesh Lajmiji I have gone through your messeges related to BTR. All are very informative, invaluable for learners of kp system. Thanx and Regards Anjna Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine " Astrology & Athrishta. " how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin Punit Pandey <punitpj shrikant <shrikantjin Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra.it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin Luther Rath <rathluther Sent: Thu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed. Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread. We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time. Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.// " My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the " time " which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction " Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of " Astrology and Athrishtra " from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under. ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati " // //What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. . " ////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the " Ruling Planets " reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the " Ruling Planets " at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.// RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Sun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word " holistically " and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word " holistically " is a synonym with " absolutely correct " . Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word " holistically " doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make " holistically " a synonym for " correct. " Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically// Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all, I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ? I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies > (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr. > Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the > conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book " Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II " (M/s. > > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > * " If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the > > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct. " > > > > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]* > >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y', > > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that > > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama). > > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> > > > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's > > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone. > >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to > > Sookshama level at times. " *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other > > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur. > >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil, > > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... > > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> > > > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@ > >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM > > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : > > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the > > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " > > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of > > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama > > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > > > > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first. > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l > > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > >  > > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) > > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from > > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth > > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. > > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES > > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience > > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, > > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling > > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil > > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Cc: " Senthil " athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > > >                   You> > seem to be " at it " again...> > > >> >                   Why > > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                  > > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " > > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you > > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On > > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly > > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub > > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                  > > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                             > > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram > > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac > > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn > > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree > > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > > > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > > > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20 > > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > > > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > > > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > > > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > > > > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > > > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > > > > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR > > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > > > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > > > > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > > > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > > > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > > > > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > > > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > > > > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40 > > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN > > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > > > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > > > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > > > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > > > > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > > > > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > > > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > > > > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > > > > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER > > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > > > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > > > > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > > > > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > > > > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > > > > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > > > > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20 > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > > > > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > > > > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40 > > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO > > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > > > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > > > > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of > > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min > > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours > > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no > > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two > > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is > > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! > > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir, > > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the > > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then > > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00 > > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20 > > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40 > > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall > > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my > > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of > > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com > > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil, > > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I > > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR. > > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich > > > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory > > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > >  > >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html > > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                                > > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                                > > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                                > > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will > > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > >  > >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > >  > >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich > > > > > BTR Theory> > > > " Senthil " athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord > > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON > > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same. > > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Dear Punit, After this exercise, we have used all the astrologer's RP to FIX ONE RBT and we found that the RP's of the various astrologer at different place gives same result only(Refer Power point presentation by Dr.Rath in the same studies folder).However the individual's interpretation of RP & methods used to choose the planets various between them and hence the outputs are different for all. This is for your information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 4:31 AM Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 dear punitji sir, you have more than 3000 members in the forum you can get their birth details.everybody knows their correct birth time.you can give everyday quiz.you can give the birth details withot mentioning name of person.by this you can find out correct birthtime rectification method.there can be no question of whether the time of birth ,is correct or not ,since it will be mentioned by known person. thanks regards shrikantjin Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 6:01:34 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2009 Dear Senthil, The Birth Time of 03-20-00 AM confirms the by now famous K.P., rule that the Ascendant sublord and sub-sublord appear as the Moon's starlord and sublord respectively... (using K.P. SW and New K.P. Ayanamsa...) Thank you Mr.Senthil, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! Senthil <athi_ram Sent: Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:31:08 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Members, See the Message ID for the discussion about RBT Rule(Asc Sub = Moon Star Rule) : http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 9596 GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Sun, 12/20/09, anjna agarwal <anu0562 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: anjna agarwal <anu0562 (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.com, "Yogesh Lajmi" <yogeshlajmi@ >Sunday, December 20, 2009, 1:00 AM Respected Yogesh Lajmiji I have gone through your messeges related to BTR. All are very informative, invaluable for learners of kp system. Thanx and Regards Anjna See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009 Dear shrikant/Punit, Our member VGR has already started the exercise and here participation of at least 300 members (10% of group strength) is more important than collecting/using the data. If the members are not supporting for the exercise and what is the use/point in keeping 3000 data with us. Many of them are talking /dictating but not participating, so what is the use. Many of the members are keep on talking by questing the recorded birth time etc not allowing us to proceed with exercise. We can talk everything such as recorded birth time, RBT Rules etc after the completion of RBT exercise only. I request all the members (astrologers) to participate the exercise/quiz conducted by VGR and let us find some way forward. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 12/20/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjinRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "punit pandey" <punitpSunday, December 20, 2009, 5:51 AM dear punitji sir, you have more than 3000 members in the forum you can get their birth details.everybody knows their correct birth time.you can give everyday quiz.you can give the birth details withot mentioning name of person.by this you can find out correct birthtime rectification method.there can be no question of whether the time of birth ,is correct or not ,since it will be mentioned by known person. thanks regards shrikantjin@ Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, 20 December, 2009 6:01:34 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009  I also think VGR is on the right method. We all must support him by participating and providing clinically correct birth data (as VGR collects it directly from nursing home stuffs). Regards Suprakash - Senthil Cc: punitp ; vgr_pavan1 Monday, December 21, 2009 6:21 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear shrikant/Punit, Our member VGR has already started the exercise and here participation of at least 300 members (10% of group strength) is more important than collecting/using the data. If the members are not supporting for the exercise and what is the use/point in keeping 3000 data with us. Many of them are talking /dictating but not participating, so what is the use. Many of the members are keep on talking by questing the recorded birth time etc not allowing us to proceed with exercise. We can talk everything such as recorded birth time, RBT Rules etc after the completion of RBT exercise only. I request all the members (astrologers) to participate the exercise/quiz conducted by VGR and let us find some way forward. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 12/20/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjin (AT) (DOT) co.in>Re: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "punit pandey" <punitp >Sunday, December 20, 2009, 5:51 AM dear punitji sir, you have more than 3000 members in the forum you can get their birth details.everybody knows their correct birth time.you can give everyday quiz.you can give the birth details withot mentioning name of person.by this you can find out correct birthtime rectification method.there can be no question of whether the time of birth ,is correct or not ,since it will be mentioned by known person. thanks regards shrikantjin@ Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, 20 December, 2009 6:01:34 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ .>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009 Dear Suprakash, We all know that the TOB given by the doctor/nursing staff is almost always wrong,or rather almost always needs to be corrected...! Have you thought about that...there is a mail from a doctor in fact there are two mails...pl read them and then give your opinion... Yogesh Lajmi. Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 12:48:26 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory  I also think VGR is on the right method. We all must support him by participating and providing clinically correct birth data (as VGR collects it directly from nursing home stuffs). Regards Suprakash - Senthil @gro ups.com Cc: punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com ; vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.in Monday, December 21, 2009 6:21 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear shrikant/Punit, Our member VGR has already started the exercise and here participation of at least 300 members (10% of group strength) is more important than collecting/using the data. If the members are not supporting for the exercise and what is the use/point in keeping 3000 data with us. Many of them are talking /dictating but not participating, so what is the use. Many of the members are keep on talking by questing the recorded birth time etc not allowing us to proceed with exercise. We can talk everything such as recorded birth time, RBT Rules etc after the completion of RBT exercise only. I request all the members (astrologers) to participate the exercise/quiz conducted by VGR and let us find some way forward. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 12/20/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: "punit pandey" <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Sunday, December 20, 2009, 5:51 AM dear punitji sir, you have more than 3000 members in the forum you can get their birth details.everybody knows their correct birth time.you can give everyday quiz.you can give the birth details withot mentioning name of person.by this you can find out correct birthtime rectification method.there can be no question of whether the time of birth ,is correct or not ,since it will be mentioned by known person. thanks regards shrikantjin@ Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, 20 December, 2009 6:01:34 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta.."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion.. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs.. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... .......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ ..>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > To: @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius.. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world.. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 21, 2009  Lajmiji Thats true, but it is nearest to the actual timing if the doctor/nurse are cautious and notes down the time. What i understand from VGR's mails is that he has some connection with doc/nurses of the nursing home and they were instructed properly before to take the time as accurately as possible. Pavan, your comments please. Regards Suprakash - Yogesh Lajmi Cc: Suprakash Ghosh Monday, December 21, 2009 3:01 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Suprakash, We all know that the TOB given by the doctor/nursing staff is almost always wrong,or rather almost always needs to be corrected...! Have you thought about that...there is a mail from a doctor in fact there are two mails...pl read them and then give your opinion... Yogesh Lajmi. Suprakash Ghosh <suprakash.ghosh Sent: Mon, 21 December, 2009 12:48:26 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory  I also think VGR is on the right method. We all must support him by participating and providing clinically correct birth data (as VGR collects it directly from nursing home stuffs). Regards Suprakash - Senthil @gro ups.com Cc: punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com ; vgr_pavan1 (AT) (DOT) co.in Monday, December 21, 2009 6:21 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear shrikant/Punit, Our member VGR has already started the exercise and here participation of at least 300 members (10% of group strength) is more important than collecting/using the data. If the members are not supporting for the exercise and what is the use/point in keeping 3000 data with us. Many of them are talking /dictating but not participating, so what is the use. Many of the members are keep on talking by questing the recorded birth time etc not allowing us to proceed with exercise. We can talk everything such as recorded birth time, RBT Rules etc after the completion of RBT exercise only. I request all the members (astrologers) to participate the exercise/quiz conducted by VGR and let us find some way forward. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 12/20/09, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: "punit pandey" <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Sunday, December 20, 2009, 5:51 AM dear punitji sir, you have more than 3000 members in the forum you can get their birth details.everybody knows their correct birth time.you can give everyday quiz.you can give the birth details withot mentioning name of person.by this you can find out correct birthtime rectification method.there can be no question of whether the time of birth ,is correct or not ,since it will be mentioned by known person. thanks regards shrikantjin@ Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comSun, 20 December, 2009 6:01:34 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, I am aware of this. Our concern is not limited to rectification but verification as well. For example, we conducted a kind of quiz (RBT-Compilation by Dr.Rath & D.Senthil.pdf in http://groups. / group/k_p_ system Studies/) where everybody used RP method but they arrived at different rectified time. So, rectification alone is not enough, verification after rectification is also very important and we want to conclude on that as well. Without verification method, rectification alone is not much useful. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 5:46 PM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear punitji pranam, sir,I am quoting the ksks words you may get a clue for verification of BRT. I HAVE ALREADY QUOTED RECTIFICATION BY RULING PLANETS IN KSKS WORDS IN PREVIOUS MAIL.FURTHER KSK SAYS. above rule had been tested by most inteligent students,highly qualified,very well placed in life who used to put the query in the class and used to ask the correct time of their birth.already they know their correct time ;but to ascertain whether this method works correctly hundreds and hundreds of the students have tested,verified and very happyreaders will be pleased to understand that everywhere i came very correct.they were also very much impressed,convinced and absolutely satisfied.I had already published in the magazine "Astrology & Athrishta.."how without seeing the native I had given correct time of birth,the nakshatra of birth,the rashi of birth,etc.,to the interested party who had the real urge.I had not tested with people who are not known to many,but with people holding such positions which will be even- today from 1 to 10,in India.therefore ,the above method alone is to be followed to find out the correct time of birth and also to find out correct position of lagna. THIS QUOTE IS FROM READER 6 HORARY ASTROLOGY PAGE 138/139 Our beloved guruji has given the answer for your question. GOOD LUCK shrikantjin@ yhoo.com Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in>Sun, 20 December, 2009 4:28:55 PM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Shrikant ji, The method you are suggesting is for rectification. We also need a method for verification. For example, how to find out the sub lord thus arrived is correct? This is what we mean by verification. Also, I believe we are diverting a little bit as the point of discussion is not rectification of cuspal sub lord but rectification and verification of birth time. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:49 AM, j shrikant <shrikantjin@ .co. in> wrote: dear sir, I would like to quote one method of rectifying birth advocated by late.shri. suresh shasane of maharashtra. it is practical approch,when a querist comes to an astrologer.he should note down the ruling planets.when the query is put .for example about marriage.then the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord should be from the ruling planets.if it is not, you can correct the 7th cuspal sublord & subsublord using ruling planets in order of strength.this method was used by ksk.thanks & regards shrikantjin@ Luther Rath <rathluther > @gro ups.comThu, 26 November, 2009 11:12:52 AM Re: Re: BTR Theory Dear Kalyanji, I am a member of your School of Thought as regards BTR. But I would like to examine the other thoughts as well for the group. Dr. Rath Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > @gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 8:06:32 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Friends,BTR Theory is running from very past, more than three decades as a serious confusion.. But so far no group was able to come to an end and unanimity with a reasonable solution.KP s of past have discussed.Now, we KPs are discussing.New comers will be discussed.till the end of the era.Are we justifiable to keep an endless discussion to the future?No, we should not. We must make a conclusion for this firing thread.We are KPs.. We are following KP rules as it is. We have gained many successes with KP teachings.Then why we neglect the teachings of our Guruji?Shri KSK is the one and only profounder of RP system. In BTR/BTVR, he has mentioned several times, the correctness of RP. We can see many of examples, from the dates of KSK a lot of sralwarts have boldly and bravely used RP system for rectification of birth time.Personally I suggest all members to follow first RP theory for BTR and if we fail to come toa conclusion, we may go ahead with any other theory.Befroe I finish this write up, I wish to reproduce some parts of an article appeared in A & A of July 1975, by Jyotish Kesari M.C.Khare Ji of Bhopal. for the consoderation of our learned members.//"My date of birth is not known, but it is near about the 3rd to 10th Dec. 1919. The time of birth is about dawn, as heared from some of my relatives, but I cant say positively. Though I subnitted one and the same data to many Astrologers, yet each of them differs. It is the "time"which will judge the things. I suppose, the otherwise, every astrologer claims to be true and rights, well, let me see what 1974 speaks of them. Hope yu would let me have the horoscope(prepared by you) with your concidered prediction" Given above is thje version of the letter, I received from a reader of "Astrology and Athrishtra" from Punjab. He had been contacting various astrologers of the country from North to South, and as remarked by him he has received different replies from them. Some of the Astrologers have calculated his birth time and date as under............. ......... ......... ......... ......... ............. ......... .......... ......... ......... ..////Any Astrologer of the traditional school receiving such a letter would be hard put to undertake the task of setting up a true map of heavens at birth but this poses no difficult problem to those earnestly practising 'Krishnamurti Paddhati"////What our revered Guruji has said: " God will always be alert and be giving wonderful guidance to the astrologer.. ."////One of the greatest achievement of Krishnamurti Paddhati is its success in finding out that the "Ruling Planets" reveal the truth and guide one to correctly predict. The Late Prof. K.S.Krishnamurti had proved that the "Ruling Planets" at the time of judgement at birth and also at the time of fructification of the event.//RegardsKalyan Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.comSun, November 15, 2009 5:52:01 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay ji, I am not aware of any patent on the word "holistically" and hence used the word. By the way, your indirect comment is not appreciated because when I wanted to discuss the topic, you backed out and now this indirect comment which is trying to convey that the word "holistically" is a synonym with "absolutely correct". Whenever you have interest in discussing Double-Transit, would appreciate that you respond my questions in that topic which helps your point of view and hence take the discussion forward. My usage of word "holistically" doesn't add anything to that discussion, it doesn't make "holistically" a synonym for "correct." Coming to Shanmugam ji method, I do not have any opinion to share with the forum. I personally do not use this method because I see no logic on various facets like why Ascendant sub and not Moon's sub? Why Moon's nakshatra but not Ascedant's nakshtra? I do not have any good logical explanation for myself and hence I do not use it. Though I also felt that all our discussion and study is mostly surrounding first point and not on all four points as suggested by Shanmugam ji. It also look like Lajmi ji also use first point only and not all four points most of the time. I didn't write about it earlier because of lack of interest in this topic. We would have discussed this topic 100+ times in the past and without any conclusion and hence no interest. After so many discussions on this topic, I emphesize verification framework which is not very strong in KP. There is needed some simple and straight-forward way to verify whether the time is correct or not. In my opinion, we need to work on verification method first before talking about the rectification method. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 2:06 PM, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Dear Punitji,//Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically//Nice to see the use of word Holistically .*****Beside looking up all the factors (from point b to d) statically from KP experts as done for point [a], i have one major query from you all,I) Why planet 'Y's' Sub sub (SS) is left out when Y itself, its sub & sub sub sub (SSS) is considered for moon's star?II) Why only sub sub sub (SSS) of planet 'Z' is considered ?I am expecting some logical explanation to improve my KP understanding from KP experts.Thanking you,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur. @gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,> > Vijay ji has made an important point. Senthil ji and all previous studies> (e.g. Tw ji's study) touched only condition (a). As none of the the study> has touched the Asc-Moon connection method by Shanmugam holistically, in my> opinion all those studies should not be called conclusive as far as Mr.> Shanmugam's Asc-Moon rule of BTR is concerned.> > I also want to confirm once again with Lajmi ji (just for the record> purpose), does he follow only first condition (condition 'a') or all the> conditions (a to d)?> > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 7:54 PM, vijay.goel goyalvj wrote:> > >> >> > Respected Yogeshji , Senthilji, Punitji & all,> >> > Late Shri.M.P.Shanmugam, in the book "Astro-Secrets and KP– Part II" (M/s.> > Krishman & Co., Chennai) presented the BTR as follows :> >> > In his own words:> >> > *"If one has to know, whether the given birth time is correct or wrong, the> > method is the Birth Lagna Cusp Sublord should tell the Birth Star or the> > Moon Sign directly or in one way or the other. To tell the very Birth> > Star will be more correct."> >> > a) The Birth Lagna Sublord itself may be the Birth Star.> >> > *[say 'X' is the sublord of ascendent.> > I) 'X' could be moon's star.> > This Yogeshji is using successfully in his long experience]*> >> > b) The Birth Lagna Sublord, in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord or Sublord may come as Birth Star.> > *> > [if we take the star lord of 'X' (sub lord of ascendent) as planet 'Y',> > II) 'Y' could be moon's star> > III) Y's sub could be moon's star (*Take this planet as 'Z'* )]> >> > *c) The Birth Lagna Sublord in whose constellation it is, that> > Constellation Lord's area has to be looked up to Sookshama level, which will> > be the Birth Star.> > i.e. Lagna Sublord is in a Star(Dasa) - then Sub(Bhukthi) - then> > SubSub(Anthara) -and then in a SubSubSub (Sookshama).> > This SubSubSub lord (SSS lord) will be the Birth Star.> > *> > [ IV) Y 's sub sub sub (SSS) could be moon's star, please note that sub sub> > (SS) is not taken here.]*> >> > d) The Birth Lagna Sub, in which Sub it is, that Sub will be in a> > Star–Sub–SubSub– SSS Here, we must take the SubSubSub lord (SSS), which> > should tell the Birth Star.> >> > *[ V) Sub sub sub (SSS) of Planet 'Z' as taken earlier could be the moon's> > star.]*> >> >> > A Birth has several stages like first cry, placed on earth (boopadhana) ,> > Siras Udhayam, Normal delivery, Caessarean, and so on. Under such> > circumstances, you cannot stick to one method of thinking alone.> >> > As the Birth Lagna Sublord has interconnection with Moon by four levels as> > explained above, this Lagna Sub if it, in any manner, touches the Birth> > Star, that time is the Correct Birth Time. You may have to work up to> > Sookshama level at times." *> >> > Just I want to say to Senthilji that the statistical relation he had> > provided earlier is only explaining the point number a), if we chose other> > factors stated in other points we can see many more possibilities and> > probabilites ratio will increase.> >> > Thankyou,> > Regards,> > Vijay Goel> > Jaipur.> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi yogeshlajmi@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Senthil,> > >                  The objective is to confirm the> > correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned> > are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...> > >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of> > Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...> > >                   BTR is as simple as that...> >> > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. Â> > >> > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel goyalvj@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > vijay.goel goyalvj@> >> > > Re: BTR Theory> > > @gro ups.com> > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >> > >> > > Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Senthil ji,> > >> > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > >> > > Rule 3:> > > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P.> > method)....> > > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the> > sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord> > is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a> > female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > >> > > Rule 4 :> > >> > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given> > TOB...> > > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of> > the IXth cusp...> > > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> > > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> > > Ven - is chief significator of Kama> > > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am> > not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > >> > > ************ ***> > >> > > Thankyou,> > >> > > Best Wishes,> > > Vijay Goel> > > Jaipur.> > >> > > ---> > > In @gro ups.com, Senthil athi_ram@ .> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time> > being. We will talk about one RULE first.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > RULE:1> > > > *********> > > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values> > up to Seconds)> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l> > explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with> > 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> > FAILURE results noticed).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE?> > As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his> > methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points)ÂÂ> > about this RULE alone.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > RULE:2> > > > *********> >> > > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a> > cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> > ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from> > having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses> > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that> > time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth> > Chart...and so on...> > > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= =ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Reply:> > > > ====> > > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE.> > Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many> > of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Other RULES> > > > =========> > > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience> > wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not> > coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be> > so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing,> > angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for> > your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling> > on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> > review comments.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: "Senthil" athi_ram@ ..>> > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > >> >                   You> > seem to be "at it" again...> > > >> >                   Why> > are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research> > in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your> > point ?> > > >                 ÂÂ> > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule> > of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your> > knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"> > -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >> > > >                  As> > said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you> > do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to> > Ms.Sujata Das...> > > >> >                   On> > this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that> > the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR> > that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly> > as per D/B/A/S ...? !> > > >                  I> > have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub> > level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub> > level...> > > >                 ÂÂ> > With best wishes,> > > >                 ÂÂ> > Yogesh Lajmi.> > > >> >                                            ÂÂ> > GOOD LUCK !> >> > > >> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Cc: rathluther > > > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position> > in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac> > is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given> > below.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Hr.No.> > > >> > > >> > > > RASI> > > >> > > >> > > > Sgn> > > >> > > >> > > > Str> > > >> > > >> > > > Sub> > > >> > > >> > > > Degree> > > >> > > > Diff.> > > >> > > >> > > > 1> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 000:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 2> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 000:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 3> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 003:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 4> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 003:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 5> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 004:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 6> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 005:33:20> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 7> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 007:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 8> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 009:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 9> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 011:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 10> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 013:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 11> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 015:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 12> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 016:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 13> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 017:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 14> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 018:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 15> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 020:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 16> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 021:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 17> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 024:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 18> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 025:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 19> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 026:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 20> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 027:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 21> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 028:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 22> > > >> > > > RA1> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 029:13:20> > > >> > > > 011:06:40> > > >> > > >> > > > 23> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 030:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 24> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 031:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 25> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 033:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 26> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 035:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 27> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 037:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 28> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 037:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 29> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 040:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 30> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 041:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 31> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 041:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:53:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 32> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 043:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 33> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 045:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 34> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 047:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 35> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 049:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 36> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 050:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 37> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 052:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 38> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 053:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 39> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 054:06:40> > > >> > > > 012:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 40> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 056:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 41> > > >> > > > RA2> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 057:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 42> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 060:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 43> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 061:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 44> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 062:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 45> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 064:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 46> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 065:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 47> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 066:40:00> > > >> > > > 012:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 48> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 068:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 49> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 070:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 50> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 072:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 51> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 074:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 52> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 075:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 53> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 077:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 54> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 078:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 55> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 079:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 56> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 080:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 57> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 081:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 58> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 083:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 59> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 085:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 60> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 086:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 61> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 088:46:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 62> > > >> > > > RA3> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 089:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 63> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 090:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 64> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 090:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 65> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 091:20:00> > > >> > > > 024:40:00> > > >> > > >> > > > 66> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 093:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 67> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 095:26:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 68> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 097:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 69> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 098:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 70> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 100:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 71> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 101:00:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 72> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 102:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 73> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 102:53:20> > > >> > > > 011:33:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 74> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 104:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 75> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > 106:40:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 76> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > KET> > > >> > > > 108:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 77> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > VEN> > > >> > > > 109:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 78> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SUN> > > >> > > > 111:33:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 79> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > 112:13:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 80> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > MAR> > > >> > > > 113:20:00> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 81> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > RAH> > > >> > > > 114:06:40> > > >> > > > 011:13:20> > > >> > > >> > > > 82> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > JUP> > > >> > > > 116:06:40> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > >> > > > 83> > > >> > > > RA4> > > >> > > > MOO> > > >> > > > MER> > > >> > > > SAT> > > >> > > > 117:53:20> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > ÂÂ> > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of> > RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you> > assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in> > degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min> > which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the> > average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes> > upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours> > to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > ÂÂ> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's> > relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no> > question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of> > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two> > consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it> > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that> > is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is> > absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can> > happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can> > decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sir,> > > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as> > per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in> > various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the> > ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius.. The rising sub is Mercury. So> > now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when> > 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then> > deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > > > Capricorn 24-06-40> > > > Aquarius    6-40-00> > > > Pisces        1-20-00> > > > Pisces      12-53-20> > > > Pisces      24-06-40> > > > Aries         5-33-20> > > > Aries       18-06-40> > > > Aries      29-13-20> > > > Taurus     11-53-20> > > > Taurus     24-06-40> > > > Gemini       6-40-00> > > > Cancer      1-20-00> > > > Cancer     24-06-40> >> > > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall> > there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in> > constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is> > fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> > understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable> > rule.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > ÂÂ> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there> > are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of> > Moon and such birth chart i have seen already.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > @gro ups.com> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Senthil,> > > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4> > births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next> > second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I> > would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3> > degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying> > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > > > Dr. Rath> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Senthil athi_ram >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > > > Re: BTR Theory> > > >> > > > ÂÂ> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear MS.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for> > Population Statistics.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > ÂÂ> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > =14708.95833 per hour> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > > >> >                                               ÂÂ> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the> > places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will> > defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen> > charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree> > orb.> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > ÂÂ> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > ÂÂ> > > > D.Senthil> > > > ÂÂ> >> > > >> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > mssumich mssumich >> > > > BTR Theory> > > > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many> > births taking place every minute in this world.. Every time the Asc sublord> > will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of> > the proof you gave is very clear.> > > >> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > > > Thanks> > > > MS> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear TinWin,> > > >> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > >> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the> > method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant)> > position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> > position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the> > world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect> > and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > >> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical> > example and thanks for the same.> > > >> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > >> > > > D.Senthil> > > >> > >> >> > > >> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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