Guest guest Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich wrote: mssumich <mssumichBTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ramThursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959./message/28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_rammssumich <mssumichCc: Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 6, 2009 I support Senthiji in this since even my personal analysis speaks that ASC sub lord is not always same as Moon star due. With this rule, there are situations when there is assumed no birth taking place for nearly 20-30 minutes. regds Dev , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear MS. > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. > > http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > =14708.95833 per hour > = 245.1493056 per minute > = 4.085821759 per second. > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > Hope the above gives the required information. > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich wrote: > > > mssumich <mssumich > BTR Theory > " Senthil " <athi_ram > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > Dear Shri Senthil > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear. > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > Thanks > MS > > > > > Dear TinWin, > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > /message/28959 > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same. > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 6, 2009 Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote: Luther Rath <rathlutherRe: Re: BTR Theory Date: Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 7, 2009 Sir, Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. The next delevery times shall be as follows :- Capricorn 24-06-40 Aquarius 6-40-00 Pisces 1-20-00 Pisces 12-53-20 Pisces 24-06-40 Aries 5-33-20 Aries 18-06-40 Aries 29-13-20 Taurus 11-53-20 Taurus 24-06-40 Gemini 6-40-00 Cancer 1-20-00 Cancer 24-06-40 and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram Sent: Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 7, 2009 Dear Dr.Rath, I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. Hr.No. RASI Sgn Str Sub Degree Diff. 1 RA1 MAR KET KET 000:00:00 2 RA1 MAR KET VEN 000:46:40 3 RA1 MAR KET SUN 003:00:00 4 RA1 MAR KET MOO 003:40:00 5 RA1 MAR KET MAR 004:46:40 6 RA1 MAR KET RAH 005:33:20 011:26:40 7 RA1 MAR KET JUP 007:33:20 8 RA1 MAR KET SAT 009:20:00 9 RA1 MAR KET MER 011:26:40 10 RA1 MAR VEN VEN 013:20:00 11 RA1 MAR VEN SUN 015:33:20 12 RA1 MAR VEN MOO 016:13:20 13 RA1 MAR VEN MAR 017:20:00 14 RA1 MAR VEN RAH 018:06:40 012:33:20 15 RA1 MAR VEN JUP 020:06:40 16 RA1 MAR VEN SAT 021:53:20 17 RA1 MAR VEN MER 024:00:00 18 RA1 MAR VEN KET 025:53:20 19 RA1 MAR SUN SUN 026:40:00 20 RA1 MAR SUN MOO 027:20:00 21 RA1 MAR SUN MAR 028:26:40 22 RA1 MAR SUN RAH 029:13:20 011:06:40 23 RA2 VEN SUN RAH 030:00:00 24 RA2 VEN SUN JUP 031:13:20 25 RA2 VEN SUN SAT 033:00:00 26 RA2 VEN SUN MER 035:06:40 27 RA2 VEN SUN KET 037:00:00 28 RA2 VEN SUN VEN 037:46:40 29 RA2 VEN MOO MOO 040:00:00 30 RA2 VEN MOO MAR 041:06:40 31 RA2 VEN MOO RAH 041:53:20 011:53:20 32 RA2 VEN MOO JUP 043:53:20 33 RA2 VEN MOO SAT 045:40:00 34 RA2 VEN MOO MER 047:46:40 35 RA2 VEN MOO KET 049:40:00 36 RA2 VEN MOO VEN 050:26:40 37 RA2 VEN MOO SUN 052:40:00 38 RA2 VEN MAR MAR 053:20:00 39 RA2 VEN MAR RAH 054:06:40 012:13:20 40 RA2 VEN MAR JUP 056:06:40 41 RA2 VEN MAR SAT 057:53:20 42 RA3 MER MAR MER 060:00:00 43 RA3 MER MAR KET 061:53:20 44 RA3 MER MAR VEN 062:40:00 45 RA3 MER MAR SUN 064:53:20 46 RA3 MER MAR MOO 065:33:20 47 RA3 MER RAH RAH 066:40:00 012:33:20 48 RA3 MER RAH JUP 068:40:00 49 RA3 MER RAH SAT 070:26:40 50 RA3 MER RAH MER 072:33:20 51 RA3 MER RAH KET 074:26:40 52 RA3 MER RAH VEN 075:13:20 53 RA3 MER RAH SUN 077:26:40 54 RA3 MER RAH MOO 078:06:40 55 RA3 MER RAH MAR 079:13:20 56 RA3 MER JUP JUP 080:00:00 57 RA3 MER JUP SAT 081:46:40 58 RA3 MER JUP MER 083:53:20 59 RA3 MER JUP KET 085:46:40 60 RA3 MER JUP VEN 086:33:20 61 RA3 MER JUP SUN 088:46:40 62 RA3 MER JUP MOO 089:26:40 63 RA4 MOO JUP MOO 090:00:00 64 RA4 MOO JUP MAR 090:33:20 65 RA4 MOO JUP RAH 091:20:00 024:40:00 66 RA4 MOO SAT SAT 093:20:00 67 RA4 MOO SAT MER 095:26:40 68 RA4 MOO SAT KET 097:20:00 69 RA4 MOO SAT VEN 098:06:40 70 RA4 MOO SAT SUN 100:20:00 71 RA4 MOO SAT MOO 101:00:00 72 RA4 MOO SAT MAR 102:06:40 73 RA4 MOO SAT RAH 102:53:20 011:33:20 74 RA4 MOO SAT JUP 104:53:20 75 RA4 MOO MER MER 106:40:00 76 RA4 MOO MER KET 108:33:20 77 RA4 MOO MER VEN 109:20:00 78 RA4 MOO MER SUN 111:33:20 79 RA4 MOO MER MOO 112:13:20 80 RA4 MOO MER MAR 113:20:00 81 RA4 MOO MER RAH 114:06:40 011:13:20 82 RA4 MOO MER JUP 116:06:40 83 RA4 MOO MER SAT 117:53:20 The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther wrote: Luther Rath <rathlutherRe: Re: BTR Theory Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM Sir, Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. The next delevery times shall be as follows :- Capricorn 24-06-40 Aquarius 6-40-00 Pisces 1-20-00 Pisces 12-53-20 Pisces 24-06-40 Aries 5-33-20 Aries 18-06-40 Aries 29-13-20 Taurus 11-53-20 Taurus 24-06-40 Gemini 6-40-00 Cancer 1-20-00 Cancer 24-06-40 and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Dr.Rath, Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). AscendantSUBLORD Total Birth Zone(Degree) Total No Birth Zone(Degree) Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm) Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm) KET 21 339 1:24 22:36 VEN 60 300 4:00 20:00 SUN 18 342 1:12 22:48 MOO 30 330 2:00 22:00 MAR 21 339 1:24 22:36 RAH 54 306 3:36 20:24 JUP 48 312 3:12 20:48 SAT 57 303 3:48 20:12 MER 51 309 3:24 20:36 For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBLE. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote: Senthil <athi_ramRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: rathlutherDate: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM Dear Dr.Rath, I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. Hr.No. RASI Sgn Str Sub Degree Diff. 1 RA1 MAR KET KET 000:00:00 2 RA1 MAR KET VEN 000:46:40 3 RA1 MAR KET SUN 003:00:00 4 RA1 MAR KET MOO 003:40:00 5 RA1 MAR KET MAR 004:46:40 6 RA1 MAR KET RAH 005:33:20 011:26:40 7 RA1 MAR KET JUP 007:33:20 8 RA1 MAR KET SAT 009:20:00 9 RA1 MAR KET MER 011:26:40 10 RA1 MAR VEN VEN 013:20:00 11 RA1 MAR VEN SUN 015:33:20 12 RA1 MAR VEN MOO 016:13:20 13 RA1 MAR VEN MAR 017:20:00 14 RA1 MAR VEN RAH 018:06:40 012:33:20 15 RA1 MAR VEN JUP 020:06:40 16 RA1 MAR VEN SAT 021:53:20 17 RA1 MAR VEN MER 024:00:00 18 RA1 MAR VEN KET 025:53:20 19 RA1 MAR SUN SUN 026:40:00 20 RA1 MAR SUN MOO 027:20:00 21 RA1 MAR SUN MAR 028:26:40 22 RA1 MAR SUN RAH 029:13:20 011:06:40 23 RA2 VEN SUN RAH 030:00:00 24 RA2 VEN SUN JUP 031:13:20 25 RA2 VEN SUN SAT 033:00:00 26 RA2 VEN SUN MER 035:06:40 27 RA2 VEN SUN KET 037:00:00 28 RA2 VEN SUN VEN 037:46:40 29 RA2 VEN MOO MOO 040:00:00 30 RA2 VEN MOO MAR 041:06:40 31 RA2 VEN MOO RAH 041:53:20 011:53:20 32 RA2 VEN MOO JUP 043:53:20 33 RA2 VEN MOO SAT 045:40:00 34 RA2 VEN MOO MER 047:46:40 35 RA2 VEN MOO KET 049:40:00 36 RA2 VEN MOO VEN 050:26:40 37 RA2 VEN MOO SUN 052:40:00 38 RA2 VEN MAR MAR 053:20:00 39 RA2 VEN MAR RAH 054:06:40 012:13:20 40 RA2 VEN MAR JUP 056:06:40 41 RA2 VEN MAR SAT 057:53:20 42 RA3 MER MAR MER 060:00:00 43 RA3 MER MAR KET 061:53:20 44 RA3 MER MAR VEN 062:40:00 45 RA3 MER MAR SUN 064:53:20 46 RA3 MER MAR MOO 065:33:20 47 RA3 MER RAH RAH 066:40:00 012:33:20 48 RA3 MER RAH JUP 068:40:00 49 RA3 MER RAH SAT 070:26:40 50 RA3 MER RAH MER 072:33:20 51 RA3 MER RAH KET 074:26:40 52 RA3 MER RAH VEN 075:13:20 53 RA3 MER RAH SUN 077:26:40 54 RA3 MER RAH MOO 078:06:40 55 RA3 MER RAH MAR 079:13:20 56 RA3 MER JUP JUP 080:00:00 57 RA3 MER JUP SAT 081:46:40 58 RA3 MER JUP MER 083:53:20 59 RA3 MER JUP KET 085:46:40 60 RA3 MER JUP VEN 086:33:20 61 RA3 MER JUP SUN 088:46:40 62 RA3 MER JUP MOO 089:26:40 63 RA4 MOO JUP MOO 090:00:00 64 RA4 MOO JUP MAR 090:33:20 65 RA4 MOO JUP RAH 091:20:00 024:40:00 66 RA4 MOO SAT SAT 093:20:00 67 RA4 MOO SAT MER 095:26:40 68 RA4 MOO SAT KET 097:20:00 69 RA4 MOO SAT VEN 098:06:40 70 RA4 MOO SAT SUN 100:20:00 71 RA4 MOO SAT MOO 101:00:00 72 RA4 MOO SAT MAR 102:06:40 73 RA4 MOO SAT RAH 102:53:20 011:33:20 74 RA4 MOO SAT JUP 104:53:20 75 RA4 MOO MER MER 106:40:00 76 RA4 MOO MER KET 108:33:20 77 RA4 MOO MER VEN 109:20:00 78 RA4 MOO MER SUN 111:33:20 79 RA4 MOO MER MOO 112:13:20 80 RA4 MOO MER MAR 113:20:00 81 RA4 MOO MER RAH 114:06:40 011:13:20 82 RA4 MOO MER JUP 116:06:40 83 RA4 MOO MER SAT 117:53:20 The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comFriday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM Sir, Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. The next delevery times shall be as follows :- Capricorn 24-06-40 Aquarius 6-40-00 Pisces 1-20-00 Pisces 12-53-20 Pisces 24-06-40 Aries 5-33-20 Aries 18-06-40 Aries 29-13-20 Taurus 11-53-20 Taurus 24-06-40 Gemini 6-40-00 Cancer 1-20-00 Cancer 24-06-40 and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Senthil, You seem to be "at it" again... Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham...why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched"-but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation... As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly,refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking...are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! I have been getting a near 100% success-rate,when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK !--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote: Senthil <athi_ramRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: rathlutherDate: Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM Dear Dr.Rath, I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. Hr.No. RASI Sgn Str Sub Degree Diff. 1 RA1 MAR KET KET 000:00:00 2 RA1 MAR KET VEN 000:46:40 3 RA1 MAR KET SUN 003:00:00 4 RA1 MAR KET MOO 003:40:00 5 RA1 MAR KET MAR 004:46:40 6 RA1 MAR KET RAH 005:33:20 011:26:40 7 RA1 MAR KET JUP 007:33:20 8 RA1 MAR KET SAT 009:20:00 9 RA1 MAR KET MER 011:26:40 10 RA1 MAR VEN VEN 013:20:00 11 RA1 MAR VEN SUN 015:33:20 12 RA1 MAR VEN MOO 016:13:20 13 RA1 MAR VEN MAR 017:20:00 14 RA1 MAR VEN RAH 018:06:40 012:33:20 15 RA1 MAR VEN JUP 020:06:40 16 RA1 MAR VEN SAT 021:53:20 17 RA1 MAR VEN MER 024:00:00 18 RA1 MAR VEN KET 025:53:20 19 RA1 MAR SUN SUN 026:40:00 20 RA1 MAR SUN MOO 027:20:00 21 RA1 MAR SUN MAR 028:26:40 22 RA1 MAR SUN RAH 029:13:20 011:06:40 23 RA2 VEN SUN RAH 030:00:00 24 RA2 VEN SUN JUP 031:13:20 25 RA2 VEN SUN SAT 033:00:00 26 RA2 VEN SUN MER 035:06:40 27 RA2 VEN SUN KET 037:00:00 28 RA2 VEN SUN VEN 037:46:40 29 RA2 VEN MOO MOO 040:00:00 30 RA2 VEN MOO MAR 041:06:40 31 RA2 VEN MOO RAH 041:53:20 011:53:20 32 RA2 VEN MOO JUP 043:53:20 33 RA2 VEN MOO SAT 045:40:00 34 RA2 VEN MOO MER 047:46:40 35 RA2 VEN MOO KET 049:40:00 36 RA2 VEN MOO VEN 050:26:40 37 RA2 VEN MOO SUN 052:40:00 38 RA2 VEN MAR MAR 053:20:00 39 RA2 VEN MAR RAH 054:06:40 012:13:20 40 RA2 VEN MAR JUP 056:06:40 41 RA2 VEN MAR SAT 057:53:20 42 RA3 MER MAR MER 060:00:00 43 RA3 MER MAR KET 061:53:20 44 RA3 MER MAR VEN 062:40:00 45 RA3 MER MAR SUN 064:53:20 46 RA3 MER MAR MOO 065:33:20 47 RA3 MER RAH RAH 066:40:00 012:33:20 48 RA3 MER RAH JUP 068:40:00 49 RA3 MER RAH SAT 070:26:40 50 RA3 MER RAH MER 072:33:20 51 RA3 MER RAH KET 074:26:40 52 RA3 MER RAH VEN 075:13:20 53 RA3 MER RAH SUN 077:26:40 54 RA3 MER RAH MOO 078:06:40 55 RA3 MER RAH MAR 079:13:20 56 RA3 MER JUP JUP 080:00:00 57 RA3 MER JUP SAT 081:46:40 58 RA3 MER JUP MER 083:53:20 59 RA3 MER JUP KET 085:46:40 60 RA3 MER JUP VEN 086:33:20 61 RA3 MER JUP SUN 088:46:40 62 RA3 MER JUP MOO 089:26:40 63 RA4 MOO JUP MOO 090:00:00 64 RA4 MOO JUP MAR 090:33:20 65 RA4 MOO JUP RAH 091:20:00 024:40:00 66 RA4 MOO SAT SAT 093:20:00 67 RA4 MOO SAT MER 095:26:40 68 RA4 MOO SAT KET 097:20:00 69 RA4 MOO SAT VEN 098:06:40 70 RA4 MOO SAT SUN 100:20:00 71 RA4 MOO SAT MOO 101:00:00 72 RA4 MOO SAT MAR 102:06:40 73 RA4 MOO SAT RAH 102:53:20 011:33:20 74 RA4 MOO SAT JUP 104:53:20 75 RA4 MOO MER MER 106:40:00 76 RA4 MOO MER KET 108:33:20 77 RA4 MOO MER VEN 109:20:00 78 RA4 MOO MER SUN 111:33:20 79 RA4 MOO MER MOO 112:13:20 80 RA4 MOO MER MAR 113:20:00 81 RA4 MOO MER RAH 114:06:40 011:13:20 82 RA4 MOO MER JUP 116:06:40 83 RA4 MOO MER SAT 117:53:20 The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comFriday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM Sir, Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. The next delevery times shall be as follows :- Capricorn 24-06-40 Aquarius 6-40-00 Pisces 1-20-00 Pisces 12-53-20 Pisces 24-06-40 Aries 5-33-20 Aries 18-06-40 Aries 29-13-20 Taurus 11-53-20 Taurus 24-06-40 Gemini 6-40-00 Cancer 1-20-00 Cancer 24-06-40 and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Yogesh Lajmi, There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. RULE:1 ********* As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham??) , Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practical explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. RULE:2 ********* ===============Part of your message ID 29209==================== Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculously',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on... ============end of part message =============================== Reply: ==== This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it. Other RULES ========= No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member's review comments. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ramSaturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM Dear Senthil, You seem to be "at it" again... Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. .. As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK !--- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: Senthil <athi_ram >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: rathluther Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM Dear Dr.Rath, I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. Hr.No. RASI Sgn Str Sub Degree Diff. 1 RA1 MAR KET KET 000:00:00 2 RA1 MAR KET VEN 000:46:40 3 RA1 MAR KET SUN 003:00:00 4 RA1 MAR KET MOO 003:40:00 5 RA1 MAR KET MAR 004:46:40 6 RA1 MAR KET RAH 005:33:20 011:26:40 7 RA1 MAR KET JUP 007:33:20 8 RA1 MAR KET SAT 009:20:00 9 RA1 MAR KET MER 011:26:40 10 RA1 MAR VEN VEN 013:20:00 11 RA1 MAR VEN SUN 015:33:20 12 RA1 MAR VEN MOO 016:13:20 13 RA1 MAR VEN MAR 017:20:00 14 RA1 MAR VEN RAH 018:06:40 012:33:20 15 RA1 MAR VEN JUP 020:06:40 16 RA1 MAR VEN SAT 021:53:20 17 RA1 MAR VEN MER 024:00:00 18 RA1 MAR VEN KET 025:53:20 19 RA1 MAR SUN SUN 026:40:00 20 RA1 MAR SUN MOO 027:20:00 21 RA1 MAR SUN MAR 028:26:40 22 RA1 MAR SUN RAH 029:13:20 011:06:40 23 RA2 VEN SUN RAH 030:00:00 24 RA2 VEN SUN JUP 031:13:20 25 RA2 VEN SUN SAT 033:00:00 26 RA2 VEN SUN MER 035:06:40 27 RA2 VEN SUN KET 037:00:00 28 RA2 VEN SUN VEN 037:46:40 29 RA2 VEN MOO MOO 040:00:00 30 RA2 VEN MOO MAR 041:06:40 31 RA2 VEN MOO RAH 041:53:20 011:53:20 32 RA2 VEN MOO JUP 043:53:20 33 RA2 VEN MOO SAT 045:40:00 34 RA2 VEN MOO MER 047:46:40 35 RA2 VEN MOO KET 049:40:00 36 RA2 VEN MOO VEN 050:26:40 37 RA2 VEN MOO SUN 052:40:00 38 RA2 VEN MAR MAR 053:20:00 39 RA2 VEN MAR RAH 054:06:40 012:13:20 40 RA2 VEN MAR JUP 056:06:40 41 RA2 VEN MAR SAT 057:53:20 42 RA3 MER MAR MER 060:00:00 43 RA3 MER MAR KET 061:53:20 44 RA3 MER MAR VEN 062:40:00 45 RA3 MER MAR SUN 064:53:20 46 RA3 MER MAR MOO 065:33:20 47 RA3 MER RAH RAH 066:40:00 012:33:20 48 RA3 MER RAH JUP 068:40:00 49 RA3 MER RAH SAT 070:26:40 50 RA3 MER RAH MER 072:33:20 51 RA3 MER RAH KET 074:26:40 52 RA3 MER RAH VEN 075:13:20 53 RA3 MER RAH SUN 077:26:40 54 RA3 MER RAH MOO 078:06:40 55 RA3 MER RAH MAR 079:13:20 56 RA3 MER JUP JUP 080:00:00 57 RA3 MER JUP SAT 081:46:40 58 RA3 MER JUP MER 083:53:20 59 RA3 MER JUP KET 085:46:40 60 RA3 MER JUP VEN 086:33:20 61 RA3 MER JUP SUN 088:46:40 62 RA3 MER JUP MOO 089:26:40 63 RA4 MOO JUP MOO 090:00:00 64 RA4 MOO JUP MAR 090:33:20 65 RA4 MOO JUP RAH 091:20:00 024:40:00 66 RA4 MOO SAT SAT 093:20:00 67 RA4 MOO SAT MER 095:26:40 68 RA4 MOO SAT KET 097:20:00 69 RA4 MOO SAT VEN 098:06:40 70 RA4 MOO SAT SUN 100:20:00 71 RA4 MOO SAT MOO 101:00:00 72 RA4 MOO SAT MAR 102:06:40 73 RA4 MOO SAT RAH 102:53:20 011:33:20 74 RA4 MOO SAT JUP 104:53:20 75 RA4 MOO MER MER 106:40:00 76 RA4 MOO MER KET 108:33:20 77 RA4 MOO MER VEN 109:20:00 78 RA4 MOO MER SUN 111:33:20 79 RA4 MOO MER MOO 112:13:20 80 RA4 MOO MER MAR 113:20:00 81 RA4 MOO MER RAH 114:06:40 011:13:20 82 RA4 MOO MER JUP 116:06:40 83 RA4 MOO MER SAT 117:53:20 The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comFriday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM Sir, Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. The next delevery times shall be as follows :- Capricorn 24-06-40 Aquarius 6-40-00 Pisces 1-20-00 Pisces 12-53-20 Pisces 24-06-40 Aries 5-33-20 Aries 18-06-40 Aries 29-13-20 Taurus 11-53-20 Taurus 24-06-40 Gemini 6-40-00 Cancer 1-20-00 Cancer 24-06-40 and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >@gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Dr.Rath, Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: Luther Rath <rathluther >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM Dear Senthil, The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. Dr. Rath Senthil <athi_ram >mssumich <mssumich >Cc: @gro ups.comFri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM Re: BTR Theory Dear MS. Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births =14708.95833 per hour = 245.1493056 per minute = 4.085821759 per second. So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. Hope the above gives the required information. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: mssumich <mssumich >BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM Dear Shri SenthilIf I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.ThanksMSDear TinWin,Please see the message ID No.28959.http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.GOOD LUCK!D.Senthil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Senthil ji, I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : Rule 3: If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " Rule 4 : There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB... The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth Ven - is chief significator of Kama Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... *************** Thankyou, Best Wishes, Vijay Goel Jaipur. --- In , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, >  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. >  > RULE:1 > ********* > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham??) , >  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord >  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) >  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practical explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). >  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. >  >  > RULE:2 > ********* > ===============Part of your message ID 29209==================== > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculously',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on... > ============end of part message =============================== >  > Reply: > ==== > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it. >  > Other RULES > ========= > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. >  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. >  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member's review comments. >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil >  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM > > >  > > Dear Senthil, >                   You seem to be " at it " again... >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ... >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... >                  With best wishes, >                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                         \     GOOD LUCK ! > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM > > >  Dear Dr.Rath, >  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. >  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI > > > Sgn > > > Str > > > Sub > > > Degree > > Diff. > > > 1 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > KET > > 000:00:00 > >  > > > 2 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > VEN > > 000:46:40 > >  > > > 3 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > SUN > > 003:00:00 > >  > > > 4 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MOO > > 003:40:00 > >  > > > 5 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MAR > > 004:46:40 > >  > > > 6 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > RAH > > 005:33:20 > > 011:26:40 > > > 7 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > JUP > > 007:33:20 > >  > > > 8 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > SAT > > 009:20:00 > >  > > > 9 > > RA1 > > MAR > > KET > > MER > > 011:26:40 > >  > > > 10 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > VEN > > 013:20:00 > >  > > > 11 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > SUN > > 015:33:20 > >  > > > 12 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MOO > > 016:13:20 > >  > > > 13 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MAR > > 017:20:00 > >  > > > 14 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > RAH > > 018:06:40 > > 012:33:20 > > > 15 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > JUP > > 020:06:40 > >  > > > 16 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > SAT > > 021:53:20 > >  > > > 17 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > MER > > 024:00:00 > >  > > > 18 > > RA1 > > MAR > > VEN > > KET > > 025:53:20 > >  > > > 19 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > SUN > > 026:40:00 > >  > > > 20 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > MOO > > 027:20:00 > >  > > > 21 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > MAR > > 028:26:40 > >  > > > 22 > > RA1 > > MAR > > SUN > > RAH > > 029:13:20 > > 011:06:40 > > > 23 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > RAH > > 030:00:00 > >  > > > 24 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > JUP > > 031:13:20 > >  > > > 25 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > SAT > > 033:00:00 > >  > > > 26 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > MER > > 035:06:40 > >  > > > 27 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > KET > > 037:00:00 > >  > > > 28 > > RA2 > > VEN > > SUN > > VEN > > 037:46:40 > >  > > > 29 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MOO > > 040:00:00 > >  > > > 30 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MAR > > 041:06:40 > >  > > > 31 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > RAH > > 041:53:20 > > 011:53:20 > > > 32 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > JUP > > 043:53:20 > >  > > > 33 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > SAT > > 045:40:00 > >  > > > 34 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > MER > > 047:46:40 > >  > > > 35 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > KET > > 049:40:00 > >  > > > 36 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > VEN > > 050:26:40 > >  > > > 37 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MOO > > SUN > > 052:40:00 > >  > > > 38 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > MAR > > 053:20:00 > >  > > > 39 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > RAH > > 054:06:40 > > 012:13:20 > > > 40 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > JUP > > 056:06:40 > >  > > > 41 > > RA2 > > VEN > > MAR > > SAT > > 057:53:20 > >  > > > 42 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > MER > > 060:00:00 > >  > > > 43 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > KET > > 061:53:20 > >  > > > 44 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > VEN > > 062:40:00 > >  > > > 45 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > SUN > > 064:53:20 > >  > > > 46 > > RA3 > > MER > > MAR > > MOO > > 065:33:20 > >  > > > 47 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > RAH > > 066:40:00 > > 012:33:20 > > > 48 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > JUP > > 068:40:00 > >  > > > 49 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > SAT > > 070:26:40 > >  > > > 50 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MER > > 072:33:20 > >  > > > 51 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > KET > > 074:26:40 > >  > > > 52 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > VEN > > 075:13:20 > >  > > > 53 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > SUN > > 077:26:40 > >  > > > 54 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MOO > > 078:06:40 > >  > > > 55 > > RA3 > > MER > > RAH > > MAR > > 079:13:20 > >  > > > 56 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > JUP > > 080:00:00 > >  > > > 57 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > SAT > > 081:46:40 > >  > > > 58 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > MER > > 083:53:20 > >  > > > 59 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > KET > > 085:46:40 > >  > > > 60 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > VEN > > 086:33:20 > >  > > > 61 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > SUN > > 088:46:40 > >  > > > 62 > > RA3 > > MER > > JUP > > MOO > > 089:26:40 > >  > > > 63 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > MOO > > 090:00:00 > >  > > > 64 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > MAR > > 090:33:20 > >  > > > 65 > > RA4 > > MOO > > JUP > > RAH > > 091:20:00 > > 024:40:00 > > > 66 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > SAT > > 093:20:00 > >  > > > 67 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MER > > 095:26:40 > >  > > > 68 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > KET > > 097:20:00 > >  > > > 69 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > VEN > > 098:06:40 > >  > > > 70 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > SUN > > 100:20:00 > >  > > > 71 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MOO > > 101:00:00 > >  > > > 72 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > MAR > > 102:06:40 > >  > > > 73 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > RAH > > 102:53:20 > > 011:33:20 > > > 74 > > RA4 > > MOO > > SAT > > JUP > > 104:53:20 > >  > > > 75 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MER > > 106:40:00 > >  > > > 76 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > KET > > 108:33:20 > >  > > > 77 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > VEN > > 109:20:00 > >  > > > 78 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > SUN > > 111:33:20 > >  > > > 79 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MOO > > 112:13:20 > >  > > > 80 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > MAR > > 113:20:00 > >  > > > 81 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > RAH > > 114:06:40 > > 011:13:20 > > > 82 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > JUP > > 116:06:40 > >  > > > 83 > > RA4 > > MOO > > MER > > SAT > > 117:53:20 > >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). >  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. >  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: > > > Luther Rath <rathluther > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM > > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > The next delevery times shall be as follows :- > Capricorn 24-06-40 > Aquarius    6-40-00 > Pisces        1-20-00 > Pisces      12-53-20 > Pisces      24-06-40 > Aries         5-33-20 > Aries       18-06-40 > Aries      29-13-20 > Taurus     11-53-20 > Taurus     24-06-40 > Gemini       6-40-00 > Cancer      1-20-00 > Cancer     24-06-40 > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. > Dr. Rath > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > @gro ups.com > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >  Dear Dr.Rath, >  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther > wrote: > > > Luther Rath <rathluther > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM > > >  > > > > Dear Senthil, > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. > Dr. Rath > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > mssumich <mssumich > > Cc: @gro ups.com > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM > Re: BTR Theory > >  Dear MS. >  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. >  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html >  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                         \        =14708.95833 per hour >                                         \        = 245.1493056 per minute >                                         \        = 4.085821759 per second. >  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. >  > Hope the above gives the required information. >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil >  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: > > > mssumich <mssumich > > BTR Theory > " Senthil " <athi_ram > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > Dear Shri Senthil > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear. > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > Thanks > MS > > > > > Dear TinWin, > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same. > > GOOD LUCK! > > D.Senthil > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Vijay Goel, Thanks for the RULES these are available in Punit's compiled work. Please don't jump in to any other RULE. My interest is to know how far the RULE-1 is valid. I expect you to discuss your views/finding about RULE-1 only. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil--- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 3:51 AM Dear Senthil ji,I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :Rule 3:If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."Rule 4 :There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soulJup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirthVen - is chief significator of KamaWhenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...************ ***Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Yogesh Lajmi,>  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.>  > RULE:1> *********> As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,>  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord>  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)>  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).>  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.>  >  > RULE:2> *********> ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply:> ====> This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.>  > Other RULES> =========> No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.>  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.>  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@.. .>> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,>                   You seem to be "at it" again...>                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?>                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..>                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...>                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...>                  With best wishes,>                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> To: @gro ups.com> Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.>  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI> > > Sgn> > > Str> > > Sub> > > Degree> > Diff.> > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> >  > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> >  > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> >  > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> >  > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> >  > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> >  > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> >  > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> >  > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> >  > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> >  > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> >  > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> >  > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> >  > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> >  > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> >  > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> >  > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> >  > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> >  > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> >  > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> >  > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> >  > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> >  > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> >  > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> >  > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> >  > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> >  > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> >  > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> >  > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> >  > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> >  > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> >  > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> >  > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> >  > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> >  > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> >  > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> >  > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> >  > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> >  > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> >  > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> >  > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> >  > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> >  > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> >  > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> >  > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> >  > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> >  > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> >  > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> >  > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> >  > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> >  > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >  > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> >  > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> >  > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> >  > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> >  > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> >  > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> >  > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> >  > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> >  > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> >  > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> >  > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> >  > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> >  > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> >  > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> >  > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> >  > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> >  > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> >  > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> >  > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> >  > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> >  > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> >  > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> >  > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).>  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.>  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> Capricorn 24-06-40> Aquarius    6-40-00> Pisces        1-20-00> Pisces      12-53-20> Pisces      24-06-40> Aries         5-33-20> Aries       18-06-40> Aries      29-13-20> Taurus     11-53-20> Taurus     24-06-40> Gemini       6-40-00> Cancer      1-20-00> Cancer     24-06-40> and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> Re: Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >  > > > > Dear Senthil,> The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> mssumich <mssumich >> Cc: @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear MS.>  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.>  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html>  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour>                                                = 245.1493056 per minute>                                                = 4.085821759 per second.>  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.>  > Hope the above gives the required information.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote:> > > mssumich <mssumich >> BTR Theory> "Senthil" <athi_ram >> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > Dear Shri Senthil> If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> Thanks> MS> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > Please see the message ID No.28959.> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear Senthil, The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... BTR is as simple as that... Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM Dear Senthil ji,I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :Rule 3:If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."Rule 4 :There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soulJup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirthVen - is chief significator of KamaWhenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...************ ***Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Yogesh Lajmi,>  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.>  > RULE:1> *********> As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,>  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord>  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)>  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).>  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.>  >  > RULE:2> *********> ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply:> ====> This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.>  > Other RULES> =========> No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.>  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.>  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@.. .>> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,>                   You seem to be "at it" again...>                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?>                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ...>                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...>                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...>                  With best wishes,>                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> To: @gro ups.com> Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.>  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI> > > Sgn> > > Str> > > Sub> > > Degree> > Diff.> > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> >  > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> >  > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> >  > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> >  > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> >  > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> >  > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> >  > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> >  > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> >  > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> >  > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> >  > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> >  > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> >  > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> >  > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> >  > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> >  > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> >  > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> >  > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> >  > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> >  > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> >  > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> >  > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> >  > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> >  > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> >  > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> >  > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> >  > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> >  > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> >  > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> >  > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> >  > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> >  > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> >  > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> >  > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> >  > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> >  > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> >  > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> >  > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> >  > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> >  > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> >  > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> >  > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> >  > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> >  > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> >  > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> >  > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> >  > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> >  > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> >  > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> >  > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >  > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> >  > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> >  > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> >  > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> >  > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> >  > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> >  > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> >  > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> >  > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> >  > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> >  > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> >  > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> >  > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> >  > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> >  > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> >  > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> >  > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> >  > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> >  > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> >  > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> >  > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> >  > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> >  > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).>  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.>  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> Capricorn 24-06-40> Aquarius    6-40-00> Pisces        1-20-00> Pisces      12-53-20> Pisces      24-06-40> Aries         5-33-20> Aries       18-06-40> Aries      29-13-20> Taurus     11-53-20> Taurus     24-06-40> Gemini       6-40-00> Cancer      1-20-00> Cancer     24-06-40> and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> Re: Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >  > > > > Dear Senthil,> The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> mssumich <mssumich >> Cc: @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear MS.>  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.>  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html>  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour>                                                = 245.1493056 per minute>                                                = 4.085821759 per second.>  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.>  > Hope the above gives the required information.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote:> > > mssumich <mssumich >> BTR Theory> "Senthil" <athi_ram >> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > Dear Shri Senthil> If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> Thanks> MS> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > Please see the message ID No.28959.> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 8, 2009 Dear all KSK was in favour of correcting birth time in line with the method stated in Uttar Kalamrita by taking the Vighais. He sited two examples in his reader 3 and says, " According to Krishnamurty Padhati and the simplest method of multiplying the number of Vigatis from sunshine to the time of birth ......etc " Page 325. Anothe clue from him in the same reader : " Find out the lord of the lagna at the moment of analysis. this should have been the sub sub lord rising in the east at the time of birth " P329 Reader3 I think we have not yet discussed BTR in this Forum this way. Regards Suprakash , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: > > Dear Senthil, >                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... >                   BTR is as simple as that... >                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: > > > vijay.goel <goyalvj > Re: BTR Theory > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM > > >  > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji, > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : > > Rule 3: > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method).... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " > > Rule 4 : > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB... > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth > Ven - is chief significator of Kama > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... > > ************ *** > > Thankyou, > > Best Wishes, > Vijay Goel > Jaipur. > > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, > >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. > >  > > RULE:1 > > ********* > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) , > >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) > >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). > >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. > >  > >  > > RULE:2 > > ********* > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on... > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply: > > ==== > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it. > >  > > Other RULES > > ========= > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. > >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. > >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments. > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram@ .> > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil, > >                   You seem to be " at it " again... > >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? > >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. .. > >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... > >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ....? ! > >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... > >                  With best wishes, > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. > >                     \                     \     GOOD LUCK ! > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. > >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree > > > > Diff. > > > > > > 1 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > KET > > > > 000:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 2 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > VEN > > > > 000:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 3 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > SUN > > > > 003:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 4 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MOO > > > > 003:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 5 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MAR > > > > 004:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 6 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > RAH > > > > 005:33:20 > > > > 011:26:40 > > > > > > 7 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > JUP > > > > 007:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 8 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > SAT > > > > 009:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 9 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MER > > > > 011:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 10 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > VEN > > > > 013:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 11 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > 015:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 12 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > 016:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 13 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > 017:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 14 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > RAH > > > > 018:06:40 > > > > 012:33:20 > > > > > > 15 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > JUP > > > > 020:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 16 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > SAT > > > > 021:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 17 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MER > > > > 024:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 18 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > KET > > > > 025:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 19 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > SUN > > > > 026:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 20 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > MOO > > > > 027:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 21 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > MAR > > > > 028:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 22 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > RAH > > > > 029:13:20 > > > > 011:06:40 > > > > > > 23 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > RAH > > > > 030:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 24 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > JUP > > > > 031:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 25 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > SAT > > > > 033:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 26 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > MER > > > > 035:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 27 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > KET > > > > 037:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 28 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > VEN > > > > 037:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 29 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MOO > > > > 040:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 30 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MAR > > > > 041:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 31 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > RAH > > > > 041:53:20 > > > > 011:53:20 > > > > > > 32 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > 043:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 33 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > 045:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 34 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > 047:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 35 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > KET > > > > 049:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 36 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > VEN > > > > 050:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 37 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > SUN > > > > 052:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 38 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > MAR > > > > 053:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 39 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > RAH > > > > 054:06:40 > > > > 012:13:20 > > > > > > 40 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > JUP > > > > 056:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 41 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > SAT > > > > 057:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 42 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > MER > > > > 060:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 43 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > 061:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 44 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > 062:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 45 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > 064:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 46 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > MOO > > > > 065:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 47 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > RAH > > > > 066:40:00 > > > > 012:33:20 > > > > > > 48 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > JUP > > > > 068:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 49 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > SAT > > > > 070:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 50 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MER > > > > 072:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 51 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > KET > > > > 074:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 52 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > VEN > > > > 075:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 53 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > SUN > > > > 077:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 54 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MOO > > > > 078:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 55 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MAR > > > > 079:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 56 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > JUP > > > > 080:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 57 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > SAT > > > > 081:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 58 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > MER > > > > 083:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 59 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > KET > > > > 085:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 60 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > VEN > > > > 086:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 61 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > SUN > > > > 088:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 62 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > MOO > > > > 089:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 63 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > MOO > > > > 090:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 64 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > MAR > > > > 090:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 65 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > RAH > > > > 091:20:00 > > > > 024:40:00 > > > > > > 66 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > SAT > > > > 093:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 67 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MER > > > > 095:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 68 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > KET > > > > 097:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 69 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > VEN > > > > 098:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 70 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > SUN > > > > 100:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 71 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MOO > > > > 101:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 72 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MAR > > > > 102:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 73 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > RAH > > > > 102:53:20 > > > > 011:33:20 > > > > > > 74 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > JUP > > > > 104:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 75 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MER > > > > 106:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 76 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > KET > > > > 108:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 77 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > VEN > > > > 109:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 78 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > SUN > > > > 111:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 79 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MOO > > > > 112:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 80 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > 113:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 81 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > 114:06:40 > > > > 011:13:20 > > > > > > 82 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > 116:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 83 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > SAT > > > > 117:53:20 > > > >  > >  > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). > >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. > >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :- > > Capricorn 24-06-40 > > Aquarius    6-40-00 > > Pisces        1-20-00 > > Pisces      12-53-20 > > Pisces      24-06-40 > > Aries         5-33-20 > > Aries       18-06-40 > > Aries      29-13-20 > > Taurus     11-53-20 > > Taurus     24-06-40 > > Gemini       6-40-00 > > Cancer      1-20-00 > > Cancer     24-06-40 > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. > > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > @gro ups.com > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil, > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. > > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > mssumich <mssumich > > > Cc: @gro ups.com > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM > > Re: BTR Theory > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS. > >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. > >  > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html > >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                     \                     \        =14708.95833 per hour > >                     \                     \        = 245.1493056 per minute > >                     \                     \        = 4.085821759 per second. > >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > >  > > Hope the above gives the required information. > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: > > > > > > mssumich <mssumich > > > BTR Theory > > " Senthil " <athi_ram > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear. > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > > Thanks > > MS > > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin, > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same. > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > D.Senthil > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Vijay goel, From your below statements please clarify the following points. 1) moons star = ascendent sub..... You have to clearly state, WHICH MOON? IS IT NATAL MOON (OR) JUDGMENT TIME MOON? 2) While meeting with any people, at that point of time, Asc. star will be the persons moon's star..... If my understanding is correct the above point (2) can be written as shown below please confirm. MEETING TIME(JUDGMENT TIME) ASCENDENT STAR LORD = BIRTH MOON STAR LORD Regards, D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 4:38 AM Dear Lajmiji,//I am sad to observe that some people hail K.N.Rao's theory as very effective,while there is an equal number of people who do not think much of it...//It is the problem with people who donot want to understand the 'complete' teaching of KnRao, sticking with few popularised methods uneducatively.This same problem also you are facing with BTR rules you yourself experimenting, in this forum with the 'like minded people', what to say about others !. Your two experience on the works of KP :1) moons star = ascendent sub.....2) While meeting with any people, at that point of time, Asc. star will be the persons moon's star.....Is not easily digestable by like minded KP astrologers but you are successfully applying it.So this can never be an issue who is right and who is wrong.//Now you have a great opportunity to prove K.N.Rao and his theory correct...I am sure you will not like to miss it...//I donot require to proof anything to anybody, I am using it effectively and am convinced. I have given large number of successful prediction in my professional jyotishi career based on his teachings i am able to grasped.Astrology is a Holistic subject and requires SYSTEMATIC and holistic approach.I am open to all method which can help me to give more better prediction. I always move with open mind at all methods in astrology while listening.Your experience in 'Pure' KP methods is no doubt is respectable but giving disrespect to fellow astrologer will never bring any additional respect to you in this democratic country :)Thankyou,Regards,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Vijay,>               I am sad to observe that some people hail K.N.Rao's theory as very effective,while there is an equal number of people who do not think much of it...>              Therefore,I suggest Vijayji,you should give examples of atleast 5 predictions,> made in advance,divining/ predicting the correct date of marriage...using this theory of K.N.Rao...personall y,as said earlier,i have been watching KNrao on TV...but he seems to discuss the rationalisation to suit his "theory" using only past events... !>              Now you have a great opportunity to prove K.N.Rao and his theory correct...I am sure you will not like to miss it...>              With best wishes,>              Yogesh Lajmi. >                                         GOOD LUCK !>              > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj > wrote:> > > vijay.goel <goyalvj >> Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense> @gro ups.com> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 6:44 PM> > >  > > > > > > Dear All,> > Namaskar ,> > First of all double transit theory has been tested by hundreds of students, who learnt and follow shri K n Rao tested methodologies, [even by me several times as a professional astrologer].> > In Traditional astrology only transit does not matter completely, we have to see many other aspects and riders, even at transit Astakvarge plays an important role.> > Secondly 7th house does not only limited to first marriage. It has several other significance. To see which significance is going to fructity we must also look the 7th house of all other divisional charts.> > OKAY, i will give you one more sutra to check the possibility of marriage which also works 60%, just see when saturn has Rasi aspect (jaimini aspect) on the Dara Karak planet.> > For any new comer in KP system, one will get confused by seeing many houses getting activated in any set of DBAS and can come to many possibilities. But by proper practice and constant learning this type of doubts gets cleared.> > In short i will say that the most secret of Nadi principles of 'Double transit of saturn and jupiter' is ONLY exposed by shri K N Rao to the world at large with many proofs. Before it was practiced very secretly by very very few astrologer in India.> > Thankyou,> Regards,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > @gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear sir, > > No one denies Astrology to be a devine Science. In fact it is. But when it is a science, it definitely bases on Mathematics. From beginning of casting of a horoscope we all use mathematics. For determining the position os Planets in the heaven we use mathematics. And why diregard mathematics while going for prediction? Punitji is right in saying that 'Double Transit" could be seen in most of the charts as per rule of posibilities. So it cannot be a tool for predictions of marriage. He also says, it helps in post mortem cases. If any one supports this method let him predict 5 cases of marriage and prove it. Let us end the theoritical discussion on this issue but face it and prove it in practice. I do not mean to hurt any one but wish to come to the right track of learning.> > With due regards to all.> > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> > R Satish <rsatish1942@ ...>> > @gro ups.com> > Thu, November 5, 2009 11:27:00 AM> > Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense> > > >  > >   Dear Punit and friends, > > > >           I would suggest we also examine Lagna/7th  or Moon/7th being  aspected by both Jup and Sat simultaneously. Additionally on the day of marriage,Venus aspects Mars.> > > >           These will improve the strike rate. In any case % adove 60 is a myth  on CONSISTENT basis.> > > > > >            We trying to make a difficult job easier.Astrology cannot be reduced to mathematics, once we consider it a divine science.> > > >            Regards,> > > >            ; Satish> > > >            > >            > > --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:> > > > > > >Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> > > Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense> > >@gro ups.com> > >Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 6:52 PM> > >> > >> > > > > >Dear Friends,> > >> > >KP made timing an event much more easier. Though as a KP astrologer, I always feel that it will be nice to have another complementary method by which we can cross-check and confirm. In search of another such method for timing events, I looked into many methods and Shri KN Rao's double transit is among them. > > >> > >I personally feel that it is merely a tool for post-mortem and not useful for future predictions. Let us take an example of Marriage. Double-transit suggests that transiting Jupiter and Saturn will always be aspecting Natal 7th and 7th lord at the time of marriage. > > >> > >Now Jupiter has three aspects - 5,7, and 9. So including its own position, it will be influencing four houses in any chart. Which means that at any point of time the possibility of aspecting 7th is 33.33% and 7th lord is also 33.33%. If we take Jupiter's influence on either 7th OR 7th lord, possibility will double from 4/12 to 8/12 or 66.66%. So at any time, we have 66.66% possibility of Jupiter aspecting either 7th or 7th lord. In other words, around 66% of time in one's life, we will see that Jupiter is influencing either 7th or 7th. Of course, this calculation doesn't consider some of the possibility e.g. 7th lord is in 7th house itself. Anyways, I have seen Shri KN Rao is also checking Moon for transit other than Ascendant. Which doubles the possibility and if somehow Jupiter is not aspecting 7th and 7th lord counting from Lagna, it will aspect 7th or 7th lord from Moon. So in any point of one's life, if take transit from Moon as well as> Ascendant,> > it is almost certain that Jupiter will influencing either 7th from ascendant, or 7th lord from ascendant, or 7th from Moon, or 7th lord from Moon. > > >> > >Similarly, Saturn also has 3 aspects and the above write-up is true for Saturn as well. In other words, seeing the above possibility, I feel that Double-Transit doesn't make sense at all. > > >> > >To sound this method sensible and experimental purpose, I checked reducing the possibility by checking transit only from Ascendant. If I do that way, I have many cases where it fails. > > >> > >In other words, I do not find Double-transit theory useful at all. > > >> > >Thanks & Regards,> > >> > >Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > >On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:06 PM, aashish rai <raiaashish@ . co.in> wrote:> > >> > > > > >>Dear Sundar,> > >>> > >>In classical astrology there are so many dashas, if vimshottari was only required than why did Parashara muni talked about so many dashas. Other dashas like Yogini are showing it. > > >> > > >>Let’s forget about DBAs for time being as per double transit theory of Shri Kn rao  marriage chances are high when transit Saturn  and Jupiter aspect natal 1/7 axis or their natal lords. In rare cases 9th lord will be involved.> > >> > > >>Natal chart,> > >>Jupier is aspecting natal 7th lord, lagna lord and Lagna> > >>Saturn is sitting in Lagna itself, aspecting 7th house> > >> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Won’t be surprised if there is a child birth/pregency before end august 2010 !!!> > >>> > >>Regards,> > >>Aashish> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Sundar <sundar190561@ .co. in> > > >>> > >>@gro ups.com> > >>Wed, 4 November, 2009 10:31:33 AM> > >> Re: Post mortem analysis of marriage> > >>> > >> > > >>Dear Aashish> > >>> > >>I know you would say, venus is the UL lord, hence the marriage in venus PAD. But did you see venus was debilitated on the day of marriage?> > >>> > >>Thanks.... .. ....Sundar> > >>> > >>> > >>@gro ups.com, aashish rai <raiaashish@ ...> wrote:> > >>>> > >>> Dear Sundarji,> > >>> I have just started learning KP and yet to pick up the basics. but if you use traditional astrology it's very clear. As this forum is for KP only I am not elaborating.> > >>> > > >>> Regards,> > >>> Aashish> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __> > >>> Sundar <sundar190561@ ...>> > >>> @gro ups.com > > >>> > >>> Sun, 1 November, 2009 10:59:22 PM> > >>> Post mortem analysis of marriage> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Dear Learned members> > >>> > > >>> My neighbour go married on 21st Oct, 2009 between 9 to 10am. The transit of DBAS does not fully signify the event fully.> > >>> > > >>> dob: 25th Aug, 1979> > >>> tob: 9.37 (rectified)> > >>> pob: Mumbai> > >>> > > >>> Time of birth reported is 9.22am> > >>> Ayanamsha : 23.28.58> > >>> > > >>> dasha/bukti/ antra> > >>> > > >>> planet sgl stl sl > > >>> (MD)rahu(11) sun(11,12) venus(11,2-9) venus(11,2-9) > > >>> (AD)ketu(5) sat(12,5-6) rahu(11) venus(11,2-9)> > >>> (PAD)venus(11, 2-9) sun(11,12) ketu(5) jupiter(11,4- 7)> > >>> > > >>> rahu=sun(11, 12)> > >>> ketu=saturn( 12,5-6)> > >>> > > >>> Marriage on 21st October 2009 between 9 am to 10 am> > >>> > > >>> planet sgl stl sl > > >>> (MD)rahu(4) sat(12,5-6) sun(1,12) jupiter(5,4- 7)> > >>> (AD)ketu(10) moon(2,11) jupiter(5,4- 7) rahu-MD(4)> > >>> (PAD)venus(12, 2-9) mer(1,1-10) moon(2,11) rahu-MD(4)> > >>> > > >>> sun venus(12,2-9) mars(10,3-8) venus(12,2-9)> > >>> moon mars(10,3-8) sat(12,5-6) venus(12,2-9)> > >>> > > >>> Baed on the above it is seen that MD/AD/PAD does not fully signify DBAS (except for ketu, which is rahu's sub.> > >>> > > >>> In the light of the above how do we reconcile the timing of marriage.> > >>> > > >>> Thanks...... ...Sundar> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>__________ _________ _________ ____> > Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more.> > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Yogesh Lajmi, Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the correctness of the RULEs followed for RBT. Especially the RULE mentioned by, Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star lord Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB lord (for more closer results) If there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ramSunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM Dear Senthil, The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... BTR is as simple as that... Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM Dear Senthil ji,I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :Rule 3:If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."Rule 4 :There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soulJup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirthVen - is chief significator of KamaWhenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...************ ***Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Yogesh Lajmi,>  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.>  > RULE:1> *********> As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,>  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord>  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)>  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).>  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.>  >  > RULE:2> *********> ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply:> ====> This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.>  > Other RULES> =========> No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.>  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.>  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@.. .>> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,>                   You seem to be "at it" again...>                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?>                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ...>                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...>                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...>                  With best wishes,>                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.>  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI> > > Sgn> > > Str> > > Sub> > > Degree> > Diff.> > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> >  > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> >  > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> >  > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> >  > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> >  > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> >  > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> >  > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> >  > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> >  > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> >  > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> >  > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> >  > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> >  > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> >  > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> >  > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> >  > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> >  > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> >  > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> >  > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> >  > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> >  > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> >  > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> >  > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> >  > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> >  > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> >  > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> >  > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> >  > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> >  > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> >  > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> >  > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> >  > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> >  > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> >  > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> >  > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> >  > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> >  > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> >  > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> >  > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> >  > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> >  > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> >  > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> >  > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> >  > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> >  > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> >  > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> >  > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> >  > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> >  > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> >  > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >  > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> >  > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> >  > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> >  > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> >  > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> >  > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> >  > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> >  > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> >  > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> >  > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> >  > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> >  > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> >  > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> >  > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> >  > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> >  > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> >  > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> >  > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> >  > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> >  > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> >  > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> >  > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> >  > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).>  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.>  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> Capricorn 24-06-40> Aquarius    6-40-00> Pisces        1-20-00> Pisces      12-53-20> Pisces      24-06-40> Aries         5-33-20> Aries       18-06-40> Aries      29-13-20> Taurus     11-53-20> Taurus     24-06-40> Gemini       6-40-00> Cancer      1-20-00> Cancer     24-06-40> and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> Re: Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >  > > > > Dear Senthil,> The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> mssumich <mssumich >> Cc: @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear MS.>  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.>  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html>  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour>                                                = 245.1493056 per minute>                                                = 4.085821759 per second.>  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.>  > Hope the above gives the required information.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich (AT) (DOT) com> wrote:> > > mssumich <mssumich >> BTR Theory> "Senthil" <athi_ram >> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > Dear Shri Senthil> If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> Thanks> MS> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > Please see the message ID No.28959.> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Mr.Ghosh, Since that time...K.P., has developed much more...and the present thinking is now being discussed...thanks for your input,though... Yogesh Lajmi.--- On Sun, 11/8/09, Subha <suprakash.ghosh wrote: Subha <suprakash.ghosh Re: BTR Theory Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:25 PM Dear allKSK was in favour of correcting birth time in line with the method stated in Uttar Kalamrita by taking the Vighais.He sited two examples in his reader 3 and says, "According to Krishnamurty Padhati and the simplest method of multiplying the number of Vigatis from sunshine to the time of birth ......etc " Page 325. Anothe clue from him in the same reader :"Find out the lord of the lagna at the moment of analysis. this should have been the sub sub lord rising in the east at the time of birth" P329 Reader3I think we have not yet discussed BTR in this Forum this way.RegardsSuprakash@gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Senthil,>                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct...>                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used...>                   BTR is as simple as that...>                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj > wrote:> > > vijay.goel <goyalvj >> Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > >  > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :> > Rule 3:> If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method).... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."> > Rule 4 :> > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...> The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...> Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> Ven - is chief significator of Kama> Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...> > ************ ***> > Thankyou,> > Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.> >  > > RULE:1> > *********> > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord> >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)> >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).> >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.> >  > >  > > RULE:2> > *********> > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply:> > ====> > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.> >  > > Other RULES> > =========> > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.> >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.> >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@ .>> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> >                   You seem to be "at it" again...> >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?> >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ..> >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...> >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! > >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...> >                  With best wishes,> >                  Yogesh Lajmi. > >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI> > > > > > Sgn> > > > > > Str> > > > > > Sub> > > > > > Degree> > > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > KET> > > > 000:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 2> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > VEN> > > > 000:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 3> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SUN> > > > 003:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 4> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MOO> > > > 003:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 5> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MAR> > > > 004:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 6> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > RAH> > > > 005:33:20> > > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > JUP> > > > 007:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 8> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SAT> > > > 009:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 9> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MER> > > > 011:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 10> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > VEN> > > > 013:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 11> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > 015:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 12> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > 016:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 13> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > 017:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 14> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > RAH> > > > 018:06:40> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 15> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > JUP> > > > 020:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 16> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SAT> > > > 021:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 17> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MER> > > > 024:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 18> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > KET> > > > 025:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 19> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > SUN> > > > 026:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 20> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MOO> > > > 027:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 21> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MAR> > > > 028:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 22> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 029:13:20> > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 030:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 24> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > JUP> > > > 031:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 25> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > SAT> > > > 033:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 26> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > MER> > > > 035:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 27> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > KET> > > > 037:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 28> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > VEN> > > > 037:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 29> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MOO> > > > 040:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 30> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MAR> > > > 041:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 31> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > RAH> > > > 041:53:20> > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > 043:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 33> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > 045:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 34> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > 047:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 35> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > KET> > > > 049:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 36> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > VEN> > > > 050:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 37> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SUN> > > > 052:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 38> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > MAR> > > > 053:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 39> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > RAH> > > > 054:06:40> > > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > JUP> > > > 056:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 41> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > SAT> > > > 057:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 42> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MER> > > > 060:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 43> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > 061:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 44> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > 062:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 45> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > 064:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 46> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MOO> > > > 065:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 47> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > RAH> > > > 066:40:00> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > JUP> > > > 068:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 49> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SAT> > > > 070:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 50> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MER> > > > 072:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 51> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > KET> > > > 074:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 52> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > VEN> > > > 075:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 53> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SUN> > > > 077:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 54> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MOO> > > > 078:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 55> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MAR> > > > 079:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 56> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > JUP> > > > 080:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 57> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SAT> > > > 081:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 58> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MER> > > > 083:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 59> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > KET> > > > 085:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 60> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > VEN> > > > 086:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 61> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SUN> > > > 088:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 62> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 089:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 63> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 090:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 64> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MAR> > > > 090:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 65> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > RAH> > > > 091:20:00> > > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SAT> > > > 093:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 67> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MER> > > > 095:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 68> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > KET> > > > 097:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 69> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > VEN> > > > 098:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 70> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SUN> > > > 100:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 71> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MOO> > > > 101:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 72> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MAR> > > > 102:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 73> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > RAH> > > > 102:53:20> > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > JUP> > > > 104:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 75> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MER> > > > 106:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 76> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > KET> > > > 108:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 77> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > VEN> > > > 109:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 78> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SUN> > > > 111:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 79> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MOO> > > > 112:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 80> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > 113:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 81> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > 114:06:40> > > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > 116:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 83> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SAT> > > > 117:53:20> > > >  > >  > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius    6-40-00> > Pisces        1-20-00> > Pisces      12-53-20> > Pisces      24-06-40> > Aries         5-33-20> > Aries       18-06-40> > Aries      29-13-20> > Taurus     11-53-20> > Taurus     24-06-40> > Gemini       6-40-00> > Cancer      1-20-00> > Cancer     24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > mssumich <mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS.> >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> >  > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                                                =14708.95833 per hour> >                                                = 245.1493056 per minute> >                                                = 4.085821759 per second.> >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> >  > > Hope the above gives the required information.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich <mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" <athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Friends, This is not on BTR, but a valuable suggestion to all members.When we quote any references from any book, in support of proving the ideas and facts in a discussion, it is much better if we give the EDITION/YEAR together with the page numbers of the related book or magazine.Sometimes all members may posses all KP Readers, but all of them may have not gone on all the pages or sometimes some rules or references may have slipped off from the memory.And the editors of these books have changed the locations of some articles, updated and/or deleted or added when they publishing a new edition. So I wish to suggest all the members to furnish all the detail of the references as above.Everybody can follow the nicest way of Sri TW ji in giving such detail in his issues.RegardsKalyanSubha <suprakash.ghosh Sent: Sun, November 8, 2009 11:55:37 PM Re: BTR Theory Dear all KSK was in favour of correcting birth time in line with the method stated in Uttar Kalamrita by taking the Vighais. He sited two examples in his reader 3 and says, "According to Krishnamurty Padhati and the simplest method of multiplying the number of Vigatis from sunshine to the time of birth ......etc " Page 325. Anothe clue from him in the same reader : "Find out the lord of the lagna at the moment of analysis. this should have been the sub sub lord rising in the east at the time of birth" P329 Reader3 I think we have not yet discussed BTR in this Forum this way. Regards Suprakash @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Senthil, >                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... >                   BTR is as simple as that... >                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj > wrote: > > > vijay.goel <goyalvj > > Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM > > >  > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji, > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : > > Rule 3: > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method).... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..." > > Rule 4 : > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB... > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth > Ven - is chief significator of Kama > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... > > ************ *** > > Thankyou, > > Best Wishes, > Vijay Goel > Jaipur. > > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, > >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. > >  > > RULE:1 > > ********* > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) , > >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) > >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). > >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. > >  > >  > > RULE:2 > > ********* > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 9, 2009 Dear Friends,Better not to allow any further discussion on BTR henceforth. Everytime the discussion on BTR generates unnecessary heat and slinging mud on each other, losing patience etc.. It never ends in fruitful conclusion.Everyone follows what he thinks correct to himself. Several rules/methods of BTR are followed by KP followers. Every method/rule of BTR claims 80% and more success rate. KP followers follow KP because they think KP is the correct method. Similarly Vedic/traditional astrologers. Similarly western astrologers. Jesus is the only God for christians, Mohammed is the the only God for muslims, Similarly Hindus. All religions are exisitng, all systems of astrology are existing. Which God is correct ? which astrology system is correct ? Which BTR rule is correct ? It is futulie and foolish exercise.KP is the not the end of astrology. KP was there even before Guruji KSK, but Guruji only could recognise and evolved it. Laws of motion were there even before Newton. Microorganisms were existing even Microscope was invented. Coming generation may follow different/new system of astrology to be developed by some X in future. So it is foolishness to say what we know and practice is the only correct and true and all others are wrong, incorrect and unture. Have a rationale approach. Have not partisan attitude. Be broadminded. Be patient. Listen to everyone, analyse what is said, test it yourself, accept what you find correct and true and good. SURVIVAL IS THE FITTEST. Time will decide. We are in pursuit of TRUTH. Thanks,Naidu KP K. P. Naidu,Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta,VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.--- On Mon, 9/11/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote:Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmiRe: Re: BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ramCc: Date: Monday, 9 November, 2009, 10:35 AM Dear Senthil, When you visit a Temple/Church/ Synagogue/ Masjid isn't the objective to pray and try to realise God/Almighty ? It surely is not to verify whether God exists or not ? The approach to a problem is the decisive factor...for example a person of the thinking of for example, Prof.Narlikar, probably might,if at, all he visits a temple,his objective could most probably be, only to prove that God just not exist, and that it is simply a product of the fertile imagination of a species of animals called humans...! So Senthil,it depends on one's approach to a solution to a problem... It has been the experience of almost everyone who approaches a Govt. Officer seeking a solution to some problem...his approach is almost always..."...how the thing cannot be done...", and to this end he will quote the rule-book to back him up...whereas, if one approaches a Private Co. /Agency...most of the time the problem has the simplest solution,which they will only be too glad to offer you... This is the bureucratic attitude we have inherited from the British,and keep clinging to it...as it allows them to wield tremendous Power-of-Patronage over India's innocent/uneducated /poverty- ridden masses... Even today we find that our Managerial cadre,particularly the IAS...function more often than not,as Super-Head-Clerks. ..that is the bane of our Govt.'s thinking...In the last sixty years or so the major obstacle to speedy and systematic progress has been almost always stymied by our Super-Head-Clerks. ..cadre.. .or the IAS ! The above was only to illustrate what a difference in approach can help do... ! ! Never mind...if you still want to go on justifying the unjustifiable. ..it is your business...As for me,I have been practising the theory ,with my modification, since the last so many years and quite successfully too... Any ways...pl. follow what you think is correct according to your thinking... It hardly matters to me...as I will follow what has given me, over the years, extremely good results...surpassin g my own expectations. .. I do not wish to spend any more time on this futile discussion any more... SUBJECT CLOSED. ! Yogesh Lajmi --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: Senthil <athi_ram >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: yogeshlajmi@ Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:18 AM Dear Yogesh Lajmi, Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the correctness of the RULEs followed for RBT. Especially the RULE mentioned by, Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star lord Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB lord (for more closer results) If there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: "Senthil" <athi_ram >Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM Dear Senthil, The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... BTR is as simple as that... Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comSunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM Dear Senthil ji,I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :Rule 3:If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."Rule 4 :There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soulJup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirthVen - is chief significator of KamaWhenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...************ ***Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Yogesh Lajmi,>  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.>  > RULE:1> *********> As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,>  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord>  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)>  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).>  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.>  >  > RULE:2> *********> ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply:> ====> This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.>  > Other RULES> =========> No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.>  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.>  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@.. .>> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,>                   You seem to be "at it" again...>                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?>                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ...>                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...>                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...>                  With best wishes,>                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.>  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI> > > Sgn> > > Str> > > Sub> > > Degree> > Diff.> > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> >  > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> >  > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> >  > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> >  > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> >  > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> >  > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> >  > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> >  > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> >  > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> >  > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> >  > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> >  > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> >  > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> >  > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> >  > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> >  > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> >  > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> >  > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> >  > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> >  > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> >  > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> >  > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> >  > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> >  > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> >  > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> >  > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> >  > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> >  > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> >  > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> >  > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> >  > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> >  > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> >  > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> >  > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> >  > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> >  > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> >  > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> >  > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> >  > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> >  > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> >  > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> >  > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> >  > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> >  > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> >  > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> >  > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> >  > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> >  > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> >  > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> >  > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >  > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> >  > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> >  > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> >  > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> >  > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> >  > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> >  > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> >  > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> >  > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> >  > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> >  > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> >  > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> >  > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> >  > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> >  > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> >  > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> >  > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> >  > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> >  > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> >  > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> >  > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> >  > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> >  > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).>  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.>  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> Capricorn 24-06-40> Aquarius    6-40-00> Pisces        1-20-00> Pisces      12-53-20> Pisces      24-06-40> Aries         5-33-20> Aries       18-06-40> Aries      29-13-20> Taurus     11-53-20> Taurus     24-06-40> Gemini       6-40-00> Cancer      1-20-00> Cancer     24-06-40> and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> Re: Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >  > > > > Dear Senthil,> The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> mssumich <mssumich >> Cc: @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear MS.>  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.>  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html>  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour>                                                = 245.1493056 per minute>                                                = 4.085821759 per second.>  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.>  > Hope the above gives the required information.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich (AT) (DOT) com> wrote:> > > mssumich <mssumich >> BTR Theory> "Senthil" <athi_ram >> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > Dear Shri Senthil> If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> Thanks> MS> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > Please see the message ID No.28959.> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> India has a new look. Take a sneak peek. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2009 Dear Punit, I have clearly written to Senthil that I use the rule modified by me slightly,and with almost 100% success... but he seems to insist that he has found that the rule is wrong...and quotes K.Subramaniam's reply in defence...is he so naive that he cannot discriminate between an admission and a diplomatic reply...if what he says is true,wouldn't Mr.Subramaniam have given him an assurance to rectify this "wrong" in future editions... ? ! I had earlier written to him that in view of my personal successful experience with the rule...further discussion on this subject should be treated as closed...and many members have shared their own experience bearing my thinking out as correct on this very site,after all it is a theory...to be accepted or rejected ... I accept it..he rejects it...the heavens don't fall...but his "single-pointedness" to keep at it, betrays either his very childish behaviour or a compulsive behavioural disorder...the necessity to prove that he is right...makes me believe that it is mainly due to a severe inferiority complex ? I feel very sad for him...and hope and pray for some divine help...for him... Yogesh Lajmi. GOOD LUCK ! --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote: Senthil <athi_ramRe: Re: BTR Theory Cc: punitp, pandeypunitDate: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:04 AM Dear Punit, To my understanding the objective of this forum is to discuss the KP Rules or any other Rules/methods which can improve our prediction. Also the improvement of KP rules based on the individual findings, research, experience. But one of our member says that it is not so. Only the final result (prediction) only. Without RULE how the prediction comes first? Please clarify. When I talk about one RULE which is absolutely WRONG some of them are diverting the attention of the discussion by saying some other RBT theory etc what is this? When I was studying this KP system my teacher used to say one thing that "THE ASTROLOGY WILL NEVER FAIL BUT THE ASTROLOGER MAY FAIL". I have DISPROVED the method by simple logical calculation without giving any example though many have the charts in their hand and some DISPROVED the method with few charts. Many of them don’t have guts (I say those who know the astrology subject some extend) to talk/discuss/ opinion directly to say boldly that the method followed is RIGHT (or) WRONG. If the RULE doesn’t have logic there is no point in discussing about and it must be REJECTED. I don’t know why people are keeping quite. Yesterday(09. 11.2009) I had telephone conversation with EDITOR of Astro Secrets Book by M.P.Shanmugam and the RULE what we are talking is covered in one location but he told that it was for FURTHER RESEARCH ONLY. Moreover he confirmed that the RULE was not even tested with 50 or 100 charts and he accepted that the RULE will tally for 1 birth chart out of 100,000(1 Lakh = 0.1 million). So he advised that if the RULE is not having any meaning it can be simpley REJECTED. Many of our forum members are silent listeners and those who don’t know the astrology will become victims. I have spent lot of time to help the members but none of them have taken it in the right way. I respect each person’s knowledge and don’t have any personal feeling on any of our members and I have put my points with the basic knowledge available with me. So here after I don’t want to waste my time anymore let me either continue as a silent listener or withdraw my membership. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: BTR Theory"Senthil" <athi_ram >Cc: @gro ups.comSunday, November 8, 2009, 9:05 PM Dear Senthil, When you visit a Temple/Church/ Synagogue/ Masjid isn't the objective to pray and try to realise God/Almighty ? It surely is not to verify whether God exists or not ? The approach to a problem is the decisive factor...for example a person of the thinking of for example, Prof.Narlikar, probably might,if at, all he visits a temple,his objective could most probably be, only to prove that God just not exist, and that it is simply a product of the fertile imagination of a species of animals called humans...! So Senthil,it depends on one's approach to a solution to a problem... It has been the experience of almost everyone who approaches a Govt. Officer seeking a solution to some problem...his approach is almost always..."...how the thing cannot be done...", and to this end he will quote the rule-book to back him up...whereas, if one approaches a Private Co. /Agency...most of the time the problem has the simplest solution,which they will only be too glad to offer you... This is the bureucratic attitude we have inherited from the British,and keep clinging to it...as it allows them to wield tremendous Power-of-Patronage over India's innocent/uneducated /poverty- ridden masses... Even today we find that our Managerial cadre,particularly the IAS...function more often than not,as Super-Head-Clerks. ..that is the bane of our Govt.'s thinking...In the last sixty years or so the major obstacle to speedy and systematic progress has been almost always stymied by our Super-Head-Clerks. ..cadre.. .or the IAS ! The above was only to illustrate what a difference in approach can help do... ! ! Never mind...if you still want to go on justifying the unjustifiable. ..it is your business...As for me,I have been practising the theory ,with my modification, since the last so many years and quite successfully too... Any ways...pl. follow what you think is correct according to your thinking... It hardly matters to me...as I will follow what has given me, over the years, extremely good results...surpassin g my own expectations. .. I do not wish to spend any more time on this futile discussion any more... SUBJECT CLOSED. ! Yogesh Lajmi --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: Senthil <athi_ram >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: yogeshlajmi@ Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:18 AM Dear Yogesh Lajmi, Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the correctness of the RULEs followed for RBT. Especially the RULE mentioned by, Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star lord Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB lord (for more closer results) If there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. GOOD LUCK! D.Senthil --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >Re: Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comCc: "Senthil" <athi_ram >Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM Dear Senthil, The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... BTR is as simple as that... Yogesh Lajmi. --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comSunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM Dear Senthil ji,I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously :Rule 3:If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child..."Rule 4 :There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB...The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp...Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soulJup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirthVen - is chief significator of KamaWhenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally...************ ***Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur.@gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Yogesh Lajmi,>  > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first.>  > RULE:1> *********> As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,>  > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord>  > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds)>  > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed).>  > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone.>  >  > RULE:2> *********> ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ======> Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = >  > Reply:> ====> This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it.>  > Other RULES> =========> No comments and there is no discussion about other rules.>  > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members.>  > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: "Senthil" <athi_ram@.. .>> Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > >  > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,>                   You seem to be "at it" again...>                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ?>                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well-"researched" -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ...>                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das...>                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ...? ! >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...>                  With best wishes,>                  Yogesh Lajmi. >                                             GOOD LUCK !> > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Cc: rathluther > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.>  >  > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > RASI> > > Sgn> > > Str> > > Sub> > > Degree> > Diff.> > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> >  > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> >  > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> >  > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> >  > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> >  > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> >  > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> >  > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> >  > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> >  > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> >  > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> >  > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> >  > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> >  > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> >  > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> >  > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> >  > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> >  > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> >  > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> >  > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> >  > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> >  > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> >  > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> >  > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> >  > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> >  > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> >  > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> >  > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> >  > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> >  > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> >  > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> >  > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> >  > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> >  > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> >  > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> >  > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> >  > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> >  > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> >  > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> >  > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> >  > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> >  > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> >  > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> >  > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> >  > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> >  > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> >  > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> >  > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> >  > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> >  > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> >  > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> >  > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> >  > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> >  > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> >  > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> >  > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> >  > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> >  > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> >  > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> >  > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> >  > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> >  > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> >  > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> >  > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> >  > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> >  > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> >  > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> >  > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> >  > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> >  > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> >  > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> >  > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> >  > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> >  > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> >  >  >  > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).>  > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.>  > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > >  > > > > Sir, > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> Capricorn 24-06-40> Aquarius    6-40-00> Pisces        1-20-00> Pisces      12-53-20> Pisces      24-06-40> Aries         5-33-20> Aries       18-06-40> Aries      29-13-20> Taurus     11-53-20> Taurus     24-06-40> Gemini       6-40-00> Cancer      1-20-00> Cancer     24-06-40> and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> Re: Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,>  > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil> > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote:> > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> Re: Re: BTR Theory> @gro ups.com> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > >  > > > > Dear Senthil,> The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> Dr. Rath> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> mssumich <mssumich >> Cc: @gro ups.com> Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> Re: BTR Theory> >  > > > > > > > Dear MS.>  > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.>  > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html>  > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births >                                                =14708.95833 per hour>                                                = 245.1493056 per minute>                                                = 4.085821759 per second.>  > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.>  > Hope the above gives the required information.>  > GOOD LUCK!>  > D.Senthil>  > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich (AT) (DOT) com> wrote:> > > mssumich <mssumich >> BTR Theory> "Senthil" <athi_ram >> Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > Dear Shri Senthil> If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> Thanks> MS> > > > > Dear TinWin,> > Please see the message ID No.28959.> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > GOOD LUCK!> > D.Senthil> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2009 Dear Friends, This topic is becoming personal as well as repetative. We are not seeing any fresh ideas here. Everyone seems already made his points, so let us leave it to forum members to decide. Let us close this topic and move on. No further posts in this topic please. Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey Moderator , Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi wrote: > > Dear Punit, >                 I have clearly written to Senthil that I use the rule modified by me slightly,and with almost 100% success... but he seems to insist that he has found that the rule is wrong...and quotes K.Subramaniam's reply in defence...is he so naive that he cannot discriminate between an admission and a diplomatic reply...if what he says is true,wouldn't Mr.Subramaniam have given him an assurance to rectify this " wrong " in future editions... ? ! >                I had earlier written to him that in view of my personal successful experience with the rule...further discussion on this subject should be treated as closed...and many members have shared their own experience bearing my thinking out as correct on this very site,after all it is a theory...to be accepted or rejected ... I accept it..he rejects it...the heavens don't fall...but his " single-pointedness " to keep at it, betrays either his very childish behaviour or a compulsive behavioural disorder...the necessity to prove that he is right...makes me > believe that it is mainly due to a severe inferiority complex ? >               I feel very sad for him...and hope and pray for some divine help...for him... >               Yogesh Lajmi. >                                        GOOD LUCK ! >               >                 > > --- On Tue, 11/10/09, Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > > Senthil <athi_ram > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > Cc: punitp, pandeypunit > Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:04 AM > > >  > > > Dear Punit, >  > To my understanding the objective of this forum is to discuss the KP Rules or any other Rules/methods which can improve our prediction. Also the improvement of KP rules based on the individual findings, research, experience. But one of our member says that it is not so. Only the final result (prediction) only. Without RULE how the prediction comes first? Please clarify. >  >  > > When I talk about one RULE which is absolutely WRONG some of them are diverting the attention of the discussion by saying some other RBT theory etc what is this? >  > When I was studying this KP system my teacher used to say one thing that " THE ASTROLOGY WILL NEVER FAIL BUT THE ASTROLOGER MAY FAIL " . I have DISPROVED the method by simple logical calculation without giving any example though many have the charts in their hand and some DISPROVED the method with few charts. Many of them don’t have guts (I say those who know the astrology subject some extend) to talk/discuss/ opinion directly to say boldly that the method followed is RIGHT (or) WRONG. If the RULE doesn’t have logic there is no point in discussing about and it must be REJECTED. I don’t know why people are keeping quite. >  > Yesterday(09. 11.2009) I had telephone conversation with EDITOR of Astro Secrets Book by M.P.Shanmugam and the RULE what we are talking is covered in one location but he told that it was for FURTHER RESEARCH ONLY. Moreover he confirmed that the RULE was not even tested with 50 or 100 charts and he accepted that the RULE will tally for 1 birth chart out of 100,000(1 Lakh = 0.1 million). So he advised that if the RULE is not having any meaning it can be simpley REJECTED. >  > Many of our forum members are silent listeners and those who don’t know the astrology will become victims. I have spent lot of time to help the members but none of them have taken it in the right way. I respect each person’s knowledge and don’t have any personal feeling on any of our members and I have put my points with the basic knowledge available with me. So here after I don’t want to waste my time anymore let me either continue as a silent listener or withdraw my membership. >  > GOOD LUCK! >  > D.Senthil > > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > " Senthil " <athi_ram > > Cc: @gro ups.com > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 9:05 PM > > >  Dear Senthil, >                  When you visit a Temple/Church/ Synagogue/ Masjid isn't the objective to pray and try to realise God/Almighty ? It surely is not to verify whether God exists or not ? >                  The approach to a problem is the decisive factor...for example a person of the thinking of for example, Prof.Narlikar, probably might,if at, all he visits a temple,his objective could most probably be, only to prove that God just not exist, and that it is simply a product of the fertile imagination of a species of animals called humans...! >                  So Senthil,it depends on one's approach to a solution to a problem... >                   It has been the experience of almost everyone who approaches a Govt. Officer seeking a solution to some problem...his approach is almost always... " ...how the thing cannot be done... " , and to this end he will quote the rule-book to back him up...whereas, if one approaches a Private Co. /Agency...most of the time the problem has the simplest solution,which they will only be too glad to offer you... >                 This is the bureucratic attitude we have inherited from the British,and keep clinging to it...as it allows them to wield tremendous Power-of-Patronage over India's > innocent/uneducated /poverty- ridden masses... >                 Even today we find that our Managerial cadre,particularly the IAS...function more often than not,as Super-Head-Clerks. ...that is the bane of our Govt.'s thinking...In the last sixty years or so the major obstacle to speedy and systematic progress has been almost always stymied by our  Super-Head-Clerks. ..cadre.. .or the IAS ! >                  The above was only to illustrate what a difference in approach can help do... ! ! >                 Never mind...if you still want to go on justifying the unjustifiable. ..it is your business...As for me,I have been practising the theory ,with my modification, since the last so many years and quite successfully too... >                  Any ways...pl. follow what you think is correct according to your thinking... >                  It hardly matters to me...as I will follow what has given me, over the years, > extremely good results...surpassin g my own expectations. .. >                 I do not wish to spend any more time on this futile discussion any more... >                 SUBJECT CLOSED. ! >                 Yogesh Lajmi >                 > > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Cc: yogeshlajmi@ > Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:18 AM > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, >  > > > Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the correctness of the RULEs followed for RBT. > Especially the RULE mentioned by, > Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star lord > Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB lord (for more closer results) > If there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. > GOOD LUCK! > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > wrote: > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM > Dear Senthil, >                  The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is correct... >                  As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can also be used... >                   BTR is as simple as that... >                  Yogesh Lajmi.  > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM > > >  > > > > Dear Senthil ji, > > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji previously : > > Rule 3: > If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as per K.P. method)... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the chart is of a female child... " > > Rule 4 : > > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness of a given TOB... > The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul > Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth > Ven - is chief significator of Kama > Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method finally... > > ************ *** > > Thankyou, > > Best Wishes, > Vijay Goel > Jaipur. > > --- > In @gro ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear Yogesh Lajmi, > >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE first. > >  > > RULE:1 > > ********* > > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) , > >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord (for more closer values up to Seconds) > >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More FAILURE results noticed). > >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods now you should be able to tell key points (bullet points) about this RULE alone. > >  > >  > > RULE:2 > > ********* > > ============ ===Part of your message ID 29209===== ========= ====== > > Yet another method of Verification is to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if one escapes from having an almost fatal accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra operating at that time... these are among the methods which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on... > > ============ end of part message ============ ========= ========= = > >  > > Reply: > > ==== > > This may be used as an additional verification point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither faced it nor remembers it. > >  > > Other RULES > > ========= > > No comments and there is no discussion about other rules. > >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as well experience wise) many of our senior members are just watching our discussion and not coming forward to express their views except one or two members. You may be so much angry on me let me absorb / accept all your firing, angriness (if any) for the benefit of the forum members. > >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/ bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have put my points in a simply way for your/member' s review comments. > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram@ .> > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil, > >                   You seem to be " at it " again... > >                   Why are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a wrong premise...just to prove your point ? > >                  You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about K.P., first,before launching such well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of my giving you an explanation. ... > >                  As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... > >                   On this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per D/B/A/S ....? ! > >                  I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level... > >                  With best wishes, > >                  Yogesh Lajmi. > >                     \                     \     GOOD LUCK ! > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram > wrote: > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below. > >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree > > > > Diff. > > > > > > 1 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > KET > > > > 000:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 2 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > VEN > > > > 000:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 3 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > SUN > > > > 003:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 4 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MOO > > > > 003:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 5 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MAR > > > > 004:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 6 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > RAH > > > > 005:33:20 > > > > 011:26:40 > > > > > > 7 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > JUP > > > > 007:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 8 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > SAT > > > > 009:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 9 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > MER > > > > 011:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 10 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > VEN > > > > 013:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 11 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > 015:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 12 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > 016:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 13 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > 017:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 14 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > RAH > > > > 018:06:40 > > > > 012:33:20 > > > > > > 15 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > JUP > > > > 020:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 16 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > SAT > > > > 021:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 17 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > MER > > > > 024:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 18 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > KET > > > > 025:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 19 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > SUN > > > > 026:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 20 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > MOO > > > > 027:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 21 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > MAR > > > > 028:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 22 > > > > RA1 > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > RAH > > > > 029:13:20 > > > > 011:06:40 > > > > > > 23 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > RAH > > > > 030:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 24 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > JUP > > > > 031:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 25 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > SAT > > > > 033:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 26 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > MER > > > > 035:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 27 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > KET > > > > 037:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 28 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > SUN > > > > VEN > > > > 037:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 29 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MOO > > > > 040:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 30 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MAR > > > > 041:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 31 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > RAH > > > > 041:53:20 > > > > 011:53:20 > > > > > > 32 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > 043:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 33 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > 045:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 34 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > 047:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 35 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > KET > > > > 049:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 36 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > VEN > > > > 050:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 37 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MOO > > > > SUN > > > > 052:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 38 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > MAR > > > > 053:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 39 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > RAH > > > > 054:06:40 > > > > 012:13:20 > > > > > > 40 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > JUP > > > > 056:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 41 > > > > RA2 > > > > VEN > > > > MAR > > > > SAT > > > > 057:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 42 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > MER > > > > 060:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 43 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > KET > > > > 061:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 44 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > VEN > > > > 062:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 45 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > SUN > > > > 064:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 46 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > MOO > > > > 065:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 47 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > RAH > > > > 066:40:00 > > > > 012:33:20 > > > > > > 48 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > JUP > > > > 068:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 49 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > SAT > > > > 070:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 50 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MER > > > > 072:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 51 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > KET > > > > 074:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 52 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > VEN > > > > 075:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 53 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > SUN > > > > 077:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 54 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MOO > > > > 078:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 55 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > MAR > > > > 079:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 56 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > JUP > > > > 080:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 57 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > SAT > > > > 081:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 58 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > MER > > > > 083:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 59 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > KET > > > > 085:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 60 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > VEN > > > > 086:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 61 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > SUN > > > > 088:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 62 > > > > RA3 > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > MOO > > > > 089:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 63 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > MOO > > > > 090:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 64 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > MAR > > > > 090:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 65 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > JUP > > > > RAH > > > > 091:20:00 > > > > 024:40:00 > > > > > > 66 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > SAT > > > > 093:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 67 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MER > > > > 095:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 68 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > KET > > > > 097:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 69 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > VEN > > > > 098:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 70 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > SUN > > > > 100:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 71 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MOO > > > > 101:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 72 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > MAR > > > > 102:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 73 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > RAH > > > > 102:53:20 > > > > 011:33:20 > > > > > > 74 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > SAT > > > > JUP > > > > 104:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 75 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MER > > > > 106:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 76 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > KET > > > > 108:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 77 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > VEN > > > > 109:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 78 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > SUN > > > > 111:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 79 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MOO > > > > 112:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 80 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > MAR > > > > 113:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 81 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > RAH > > > > 114:06:40 > > > > 011:13:20 > > > > > > 82 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > JUP > > > > 116:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 83 > > > > RA4 > > > > MOO > > > > MER > > > > SAT > > > > 117:53:20 > > > >  > >  > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg). > >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only. > >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbir th around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :- > > Capricorn 24-06-40 > > Aquarius    6-40-00 > > Pisces        1-20-00 > > Pisces      12-53-20 > > Pisces      24-06-40 > > Aries         5-33-20 > > Aries       18-06-40 > > Aries      29-13-20 > > Taurus     11-53-20 > > Taurus     24-06-40 > > Gemini       6-40-00 > > Cancer      1-20-00 > > Cancer     24-06-40 > > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule. > > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > @gro ups.com > > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther> wrote: > > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther> > > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil, > > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR. > > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram > > > mssumich <mssumich > > > Cc: @gro ups.com > > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM > > Re: BTR Theory > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS. > >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics. > >  > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html > >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 births > >                     \                     \        =14708.95833 per hour > >                     \                     \        = 245.1493056 per minute > >                     \                     \        = 4.085821759 per second. > >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > >  > > Hope the above gives the required information. > >  > > GOOD LUCK! > >  > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich > wrote: > > > > > > mssumich <mssumich > > > BTR Theory > > " Senthil " <athi_ram > > > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil > > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear. > > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know. > > Thanks > > MS > > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin, > > > > Please see the message ID No.28959. > > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959 > > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same. > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > D.Senthil > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2009 Dear Chandra ji, Moderator doesn't decide the topic. Moderator has very limited influencing role on what is being discussed in the forum. You as a forum member decide what should be discussed here. If you want some topic to be discussed, go ahead and post it. Initiative required from your side. With all that 40 years of experience, I am sure the criteria suggested by you will be fulfilled. I would say that rather than waiting for system to change, let us come forward and take the initiative for changing the system. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:03 PM, ChandraMouliswer Ghatty <cghatty wrote: Dear Member friends,This group is mainly dedicated to discussion on KP system.I am not able to understand why somany members discussed abt KN Rao's theory which is not atall connected to KP.I have seen members going on posting their views on KN Rao's theory. While browsing I have completely deleted these mails. I request the Moderator to allow only to points connected to KP system. Let the members post anything they know abt this system and let them post any new theory/improvement observed by then while giving predections in KP system.I am regularly following the postings, sofar I have not seen a single new point brought out by the members. Everybody wanted to show their success.Please study some/few peculier charts they hace come across and let the members know their findings as per KP. Kindly discuss useful charts and do some research on the subject to enhance our skills to help the public who are in need of this Science.There is no point in repeating the rules in the books. Show the rule apllying to practical cases and I request the members not to take my remarks in negative way. In the interest of enhancing the knowledge of the system and after reading the postings sofar I have made these comments. Thanks to the Moderator for allowing my mail to the group of KP followers. When I saw this group, though I am a KP follower for past more than 40 years,I thought I can also learn some thing from the members who might have done some research work.Moderator of the group may Kindly excuse me for writing like this Thanks to the Group Headchandra ghattycghatty--- On Mon, 9/11/09, K. P. Naidu <konathalan wrote: > K. P. Naidu <konathalan > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > Monday, 9 November, 2009, 4:39 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear> Friends,> > Better not to allow any further discussion on BTR> henceforth. Everytime the discussion on BTR > generates unnecessary heat and slinging mud on each other, > losing patience etc.. It never ends in fruitful conclusion.> > Everyone follows what he thinks correct to himself. Several> rules/methods of BTR are followed by KP followers.> Every method/rule of BTR claims 80% and more success rate. > KP followers follow KP because they think KP is the correct> method. Similarly Vedic/traditional astrologers. Similarly> western astrologers. > > Jesus is the only God for christians, Mohammed is the the > only God for muslims, Similarly Hindus. All religions> are exisitng, all systems of astrology are existing. Which> God is correct ? which astrology system is correct ? > Which BTR rule is correct ? It is futulie and foolish > exercise.> > > KP is the not the end of astrology. KP was there even> before Guruji KSK, but Guruji only could recognise and> evolved it. Laws of motion were there even before> Newton. Microorganisms were existing even Microscope was > invented. Coming generation may follow different/new system> of astrology to be developed by some X in future. So it is> foolishness to say what we know and practice is the only> correct and true and all others are wrong, incorrect and > unture. > > Have a rationale approach. Have not partisan> attitude. Be broadminded. Be patient.> > Listen to everyone, analyse what is said, test it yourself,> accept what > you find correct and true and good. SURVIVAL IS THE> FITTEST. Time will> decide. We are in pursuit of TRUTH. > > > Thanks,> > Naidu KP> > > K. P. Naidu, > Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,> Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta,> VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.> Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > --- On Mon, 9/11/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@> > wrote: > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >> Re: Re: BTR Theory> " Senthil " <athi_ram > > Cc: @gro ups.com > Monday, 9 November, 2009, 10:35 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > When you visit a Temple/Church/ Synagogue/ Masjid isn't> the objective to pray and try to realise God/Almighty ?> It surely is not to verify whether God exists or> not ?> > The approach to a problem is the decisive factor...for> example a person of the thinking of for example,> Prof.Narlikar, probably might,if at, all he visits a> temple,his objective could most probably be, only to > prove that God just not exist, and that> it is simply a product of the> fertile imagination of a species of animals called> humans...!> > So Senthil,it depends on one's approach > to a solution to a problem...> It> has been the experience of almost everyone who approaches a> Govt. Officer seeking a solution to some problem...his> approach is almost always... " ...how the > thing cannot be done... " , and to this end he> will quote the rule-book to back him up...whereas, if one> approaches a Private Co. /Agency...most of the time the> problem has the simplest solution,which they will only be > too glad to offer you...> > This is the bureucratic attitude we have> inherited from the British,and keep clinging to it...as it> allows them to wield tremendous Power-of-Patronage > over India's> innocent/uneducated /poverty-> ridden masses...> > Even today we find that our Managerial> cadre,particularly the IAS...function more often than not,as > Super-Head-Clerks. ..that is the bane of our Govt.'s> thinking...In the last sixty years or so the major obstacle> to speedy and systematic progress has been almost always> stymied by our Super-Head-Clerks. ..cadre.. .or > the IAS !> The> above was only to illustrate what a difference in approach> can help do... ! !> > Never mind...if you still want to go on justifying the > unjustifiable. ..it is your business...As for> me,I have been practising the theory ,with my> modification, since the last so many years and quite> successfully too...> Any > ways...pl. follow what you think is correct according to> your thinking...> It> hardly matters to me...as I will follow what has given me,> over the years,> extremely good results...surpassin g my own > expectations. ..> > I do not wish to spend any more time on this futile> discussion any more...> > SUBJECT CLOSED. !> > Yogesh Lajmi > > > > > --- On Mon, 11/9/09, Senthil <athi_ram (AT) (DOT) > com> wrote:> > > Senthil <athi_ram >> Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com> Cc: yogeshlajmi@ > Monday, November 9, 2009, 12:18 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Yogesh> Lajmi,> > > > Sorry to say that the objective is to confirm the> correctness of the> RULEs followed for RBT. > > Especially the RULE mentioned by, > Birth Ascendant SUB lord = Birth MOON Star> lord > Birth Ascendant SUB-SUB lord = Birth MOON SUB> lord (for more closer results) > If > there is no logic in the RULE then there is no point is> strict to the RULE and it must be REJECTED. > GOOD> LUCK! > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ > > wrote:> > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ >> Re: Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com> Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram >> Sunday, November 8, 2009, 6:37 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The objective is to confirm the correctness of a given> TOB...therefore if any one of the rules mentioned are> satified one can conclude that the given Birth Time is > correct...> > As said by Vijayji,the gender rule of Mr.Gondhalekar can> also be used...> BTR> is as simple as that...> > Yogesh Lajmi. > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) > com> wrote:> > > vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> Re: BTR Theory > @gro ups.com> Sunday, November 8, 2009, 11:51 AM> > > > > > > Dear Senthil ji,> > I am adding few more verification given by Sri lajmiji> previously :> > Rule 3:> If the TOB given is the exact one,(if not, correct it as> per K.P. method)... > Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr.Sunil Gondhalekar : > " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if> posited in a star,whose lord is situated in a male sign then> the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign,then the> chart is of a female child... " > > Rule 4 :> > There is yet one more method of verifying the correctness> of a given TOB...> The planets Sun or Jup or Venus must be transitting the> st.lord or s/l of the IXth cusp... > Sun - is Atmakaraka,chief significator of the soul> Jup - is Putrakaraka chief significator of childbirth> Ven - is chief significator of Kama> Whenever even after applying the 2 methods given in my last > mail,if I am not satisfied completely,I use this method> finally...> > ************> ***> > Thankyou,> > Best Wishes,> Vijay Goel> Jaipur.> > --- > In @gro> ups.com, Senthil <athi_ram@.. .> wrote:> >> > Dear Yogesh Lajmi,> >  > > There may be many rules for BTR. Let us don't mix > any of the rules time being. We will talk about one RULE> first.> >  > > RULE:1> > *********> > As per you(or M.P. Shanmugham?? ) ,> >  > > Natal Asc Sub lord = Natal MOON Star lord > >  > > Natal Asc Sub-Sub lord = Natal MOON Sub lord> (for more closer values up to Seconds)> >  > > For this rule, i have given the full enough> theoritcal/practica l explanation how this RULE will FAIL? > Our one of the member also studied with 35 AA charts and> proved that the RULE/ method is not working Well(More> FAILURE results noticed).> >  > > Whether you will be able to prove that > the RULE is working FINE? As you have already gone through> M.P. Shanmugham's book understood his methods> now you should be able to tell key points (bullet> points) about this RULE alone. > >  > >  > > RULE:2> > *********> > ============ ===Part of your message> ID 29209===== ========= ======> > Yet another method of Verification is> to observe the time one gets a cut and blood oozes > out...the sublords of the houses IV,VIII & XII will be> ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthara lords...so also,if> one escapes from having an almost fatal> accident,'miraculou sly',the sublords of the houses > I,V & IX will be ruling the Dasa/Bhukti/ Anthra> operating at that time... these are among the methods> which can be used to rectify a Birth Chart...and so on...> >> ============ end of part message ============ ========= > ========= = > >  > > Reply:> > ====> > This may be used as an additional verification> point and not a RULE. Because we can't ask our client> for such accident happened or not? And many of them neither > faced it nor remembers it.> >  > > Other RULES> > =========> > No comments and there is no discussion about other> rules.> >  > > As you are the eldest (senior most) member (age as > well experience wise) many of our senior members are just> watching our discussion and not coming forward to express> their views except one or two members. You may be so much> angry on me let me absorb / accept all > your firing, angriness (if any) for the> benefit of the forum members.> >  > > There is no doubt about your knowledge and i salute/> bow my head for your knowledge, experience and age. I > repeat don't have any personal feeling on you and have> put my points in a simply way for your/member' s> review comments.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil > >  > > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@> ...> wrote:> > > > > > Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro> ups.com> > Cc: " Senthil " <athi_ram@.. .>> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 10:41 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> >>                   You > seem to be " at it " again...> >>                   Why> are you deliberately trying to be 'impossible' ? And> indulging in research in the wrong direction,and based on a > wrong premise...just to prove your point ?> >>                  > You seem to have got on to a single-minded objective,of> debunking one rule of BTR given by the late M.P. > Shanmugham.. .why don't you broaden your knowledge about> K.P., first,before launching such> well- " researched " -but-wasted efforts,inspite of> my giving you an explanation. ...> > >                  > As said earlier,there is more to BTR than what you seem to> focus on...and you do not seem to have read my mail to> you,directly, refering your mail to Ms.Sujata Das... > >>                   On> this very site many members other than Ms.Sujata Das have> reiterated that the Birth Times that they wanted to be> corrected by me using the same BTR that you seem so bent > upon debunking... are corroborating events correctly as per> D/B/A/S ...? ! > >>                  > I have been getting a near 100% success-rate, when I work> upto the sub-sub level...one can if one so desires work upto > the sub-sub or even sub-sub-sub level...> >>                  > With> best wishes,> >>                  > Yogesh Lajmi. > > >                                             > GOOD LUCK !> > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil <athi_ram (AT) (DOT) > com> wrote:> > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 5:21 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL> MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub> for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with> consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given > below.> >  > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI> > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str> > > > > > Sub> > > > > > Degree> > > > Diff.> > > > > > 1> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > KET> > > > 000:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 2> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > VEN> > > > 000:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 3> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > >> KET> > > > SUN> > > > 003:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 4 > > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MOO> > > > 003:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 5 > > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MAR> > > > 004:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 6 > > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > RAH> > > > 005:33:20> > > > 011:26:40> > > > > > 7> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > JUP> > > > 007:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 8> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > SAT> > > > 009:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 9> > > > RA1> >> > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > MER> > > > 011:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 10> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > VEN> > > > 013:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 11> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > 015:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 12> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > 016:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 13> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > 017:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 14> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > RAH> > > > 018:06:40> > > > 012:33:20 > > > > > >> 15> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > JUP> > > > 020:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 16> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > SAT> > > > 021:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 17> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > MER> > > > 024:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 18> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > KET> > > > 025:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 19> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > SUN> > > > 026:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 20> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MOO> > > > 027:20:00 > > > >>  > > > > > > 21> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > MAR> > > > 028:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 22> > > > RA1> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 029:13:20 > > > > 011:06:40> > > > > > 23> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > RAH> > > > 030:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 24> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > JUP> > > > 031:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 25> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > SAT> > > > 033:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 26> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > MER> >> > > 035:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 27> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > KET> > > > 037:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 28> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > SUN> > > > VEN> > > > 037:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 29> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MOO> > > > 040:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 30> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MAR> > > > 041:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 31> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > RAH> > > > 041:53:20 > > > > 011:53:20> > > > > > 32> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > >> MOO> > > > JUP> > > > 043:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 33> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SAT > > > > 045:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 34> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > MER > > > > 047:46:40> > > >  > > > > > > 35> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > KET > > > > 049:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 36> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > VEN > > > > 050:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 37> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MOO> > > > SUN > > > > 052:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 38> > > > RA2> >> > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > MAR> > > > 053:20:00> > > >  > > > > > > 39> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR > > > > RAH> > > > 054:06:40> > > > 012:13:20> > > > > > 40> > > > RA2> > > > VEN> > > > MAR> > > > JUP> > > > 056:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 41> > > > RA2> > > > VEN > > > > MAR> > > > SAT> > > > 057:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 42> > > > RA3> > > > MER > > > > MAR> > > > MER> > > > 060:00:00> > > >  > > > > > > 43> > > > RA3> > > > MER > > > > MAR> > > > KET> > > > 061:53:20> > > >  > > > > > >> 44> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > VEN> > > > 062:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 45> > > > RA3 > > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > SUN> > > > 064:53:20> > > >  > > > > > > 46> > > > RA3 > > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > MOO> > > > 065:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 47> > > > RA3 > > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > RAH> > > > 066:40:00> > > > 012:33:20> > > > > > 48> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > JUP> > > > 068:40:00> > > >  > > > > > > 49 > > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SAT> > > > 070:26:40> > > >>  > > > > > > 50> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MER> > > > 072:33:20> > > >  > > > > > > 51> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > KET> > > > 074:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 52> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > VEN> > > > 075:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 53> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > SUN> > > > 077:26:40> > > >  > > > > > > 54> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MOO> > > > 078:06:40> > > >  > > > > > > 55> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > MAR> >> > > 079:13:20> > > >  > > > > > > 56> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > JUP> > > > 080:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 57> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > SAT> > > > 081:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 58> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MER> > > > 083:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 59> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > KET> > > > 085:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 60> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > VEN> > > > 086:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 61> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > >> JUP> > > > SUN> > > > 088:46:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 62> > > > RA3> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 089:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 63> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MOO> > > > 090:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 64> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > MAR> > > > 090:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 65> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > JUP> > > > RAH> > > > 091:20:00 > > > > 024:40:00> > > > > > 66> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SAT> > > > 093:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 67> > > > RA4> >> > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MER> > > > 095:26:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 68> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > KET> > > > 097:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 69> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > VEN> > > > 098:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 70> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > SUN> > > > 100:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 71> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MOO> > > > 101:00:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 72> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > MAR> > > > 102:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > >> 73> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > RAH> > > > 102:53:20 > > > > 011:33:20> > > > > > 74> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > SAT> > > > JUP> > > > 104:53:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 75> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MER> > > > 106:40:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 76> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > KET> > > > 108:33:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 77> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > VEN> > > > 109:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 78> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SUN> > > > 111:33:20 > > > >>  > > > > > > 79> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MOO> > > > 112:13:20 > > > >  > > > > > > 80> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > MAR> > > > 113:20:00 > > > >  > > > > > > 81> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > RAH> > > > 114:06:40 > > > > 011:13:20> > > > > > 82> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > JUP> > > > 116:06:40 > > > >  > > > > > > 83> > > > RA4> > > > MOO> > > > MER> > > > SAT> > > > 117:53:20 > > > >  > >  > >  > > The Highest difference in degree between two> consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is> 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if > you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then> the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive> occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is> almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have > assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for> 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place> where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one> sign (which is 30Deg). > >  > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th> Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to> decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about> fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of > ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time> zone only.> >  > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap> between two consecutive childbir th around the> globe (for particular case) But now it > is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour> 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full> SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There> are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during > this time interval around the globe. So now you can> decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath <rathluther@ > . com> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com > > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu > in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take> birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations> in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant> rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. > So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery> should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the> east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till> again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises. > > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius    6-40-00> >> Pisces        > 1-20-00> > Pisces      > 12-53-20> > Pisces      > 24-06-40> >> Aries         > 5-33-20> >> Aries       > 18-06-40> > Aries      > 29-13-20 > >> Taurus     11-53-20> > Taurus     > 24-06-40> >> Gemini       > 6-40-00> > Cancer      > 1-20-00> > Cancer     > 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren> for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods> as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one> sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 > subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my> understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is> this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > >> > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> >  > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the > point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0> to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth> chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath <rathluther@> . com> wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath <rathluther>> > Re: Re: BTR Theory > > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > >  > > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take> place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be> any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 > births. I am not> here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that> there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the> position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying > the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > > > Senthil <athi_ram >> > mssumich <mssumich > > > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MS.> >  > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link> given below for Population Statistics. > >  > > http://www.wholesom> ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> >  > > No of birth per day in year 2009  = 353,015 > births > >> >                                                > =14708.95833 per hour> >>                                                > = 245.1493056 per minute> >> >                                                > = 4.085821759 per second.> >  > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens > at any of the places in this world. So the> lagna for some child at some place will> defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON> position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb. > >  > > Hope the above gives the required information.> >  > > GOOD LUCK!> >  > > D.Senthil> >  > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich <mssumich (AT) (DOT) > com> wrote:> > > > > > mssumich <mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > " Senthil " <athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM > > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that> there are so many births taking place every minute in this> world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's > star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the> proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me> know.> > Thanks> > MS > > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / > group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly> that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK.> As> per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall > within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON> position. Which means no birth should happen during this> period in the world. How can we say that this will not> happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will > FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & > lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with> practical example and thanks for the same. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. > Take a sneak peek.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! 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Guest guest Report post Posted November 10, 2009 Dear Mr. Senthil, // 1) moons star = ascendent sub..... >  > You have to clearly state, WHICH MOON? IS IT NATAL MOON (OR) JUDGMENT TIME MOON?// Here Natal MOON. //2) While meeting with any people, at that point of time, Asc. star will be the persons moon's star..... > > If my understanding is correct the above point (2) can be written as shown below please confirm. >  > MEETING TIME(JUDGMENT TIME) ASCENDENT STAR LORD = BIRTH MOON STAR LORD// you are right here, judgement time ascendent s\l - moon s\l. This is successfully applied by respected sri Lajmi ji. Thankyou, Best Wishes, Vijay Goel Jaipur. , Senthil <athi_ram wrote: > > Dear Vijay goel, >  > From your below statements please clarify the following points. > > 1) moons star = ascendent sub..... >  > You have to clearly state, WHICH MOON? IS IT NATAL MOON (OR) JUDGMENT TIME MOON? > > 2) While meeting with any people, at that point of time, Asc. star will be the persons moon's star..... > > If my understanding is correct the above point (2) can be written as shown below please confirm. >  > MEETING TIME(JUDGMENT TIME) ASCENDENT STAR LORD = BIRTH MOON STAR LORD >  > Regards, >  > D.Senthil > > --- On Sun, 11/8/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: > > > vijay.goel <goyalvj > Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense > > Sunday, November 8, 2009, 4:38 AM > > >  > > > > > > Dear Lajmiji, > > //I am sad to observe that some people hail K.N.Rao's theory as very effective,while there is an equal number of people who do not think much of it...// > > It is the problem with people who donot want to understand the 'complete' teaching of KnRao, sticking with few popularised methods uneducatively. > > This same problem also you are facing with BTR rules you yourself experimenting, in this forum with the 'like minded people', what to say about others !. > > Your two experience on the works of KP : > 1) moons star = ascendent sub..... > 2) While meeting with any people, at that point of time, Asc. star will be the persons moon's star..... > Is not easily digestable by like minded KP astrologers but you are successfully applying it. > > So this can never be an issue who is right and who is wrong. > > //Now you have a great opportunity to prove K.N.Rao and his theory correct...I am sure you will not like to miss it...// > > I donot require to proof anything to anybody, I am using it effectively and am convinced. I have given large number of successful prediction in my professional jyotishi career based on his teachings i am able to grasped. > > Astrology is a Holistic subject and requires SYSTEMATIC and holistic approach. > > I am open to all method which can help me to give more better prediction. I always move with open mind at all methods in astrology while listening. > > Your experience in 'Pure' KP methods is no doubt is respectable but giving disrespect to fellow astrologer will never bring any additional respect to you in this democratic country > > Thankyou, > Regards, > Vijay Goel > Jaipur. > > @gro ups.com, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Vijay, > >               I am sad to observe that some people hail K.N.Rao's theory as very effective,while there is an equal number of people who do not think much of it... > >              Therefore,I suggest Vijayji,you should give examples of atleast 5 predictions, > > made in advance,divining/ predicting the correct date of marriage...using this theory of K.N.Rao...personall y,as said earlier,i have been watching KNrao on TV...but he seems to discuss the rationalisation to suit his " theory " using only past events... ! > >              Now you have a great opportunity to prove K.N.Rao and his theory correct...I am sure you will not like to miss it... > >              With best wishes, > >              Yogesh Lajmi. > >                     \                     GOOD LUCK ! > >              > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj@ > wrote: > > > > > > vijay.goel <goyalvj@ > > > Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense > > @gro ups.com > > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 6:44 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Namaskar , > > > > First of all double transit theory has been tested by hundreds of students, who learnt and follow shri K n Rao tested methodologies, [even by me several times as a professional astrologer]. > > > > In Traditional astrology only transit does not matter completely, we have to see many other aspects and riders, even at transit Astakvarge plays an important role. > > > > Secondly 7th house does not only limited to first marriage. It has several other significance. To see which significance is going to fructity we must also look the 7th house of all other divisional charts. > > > > OKAY, i will give you one more sutra to check the possibility of marriage which also works 60%, just see when saturn has Rasi aspect (jaimini aspect) on the Dara Karak planet. > > > > For any new comer in KP system, one will get confused by seeing many houses getting activated in any set of DBAS and can come to many possibilities. But by proper practice and constant learning this type of doubts gets cleared. > > > > In short i will say that the most secret of Nadi principles of 'Double transit of saturn and jupiter' is ONLY exposed by shri K N Rao to the world at large with many proofs. Before it was practiced very secretly by very very few astrologer in India. > > > > Thankyou, > > Regards, > > Vijay Goel > > Jaipur. > > > > @gro ups.com, Luther Rath <rathluther@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear sir, > > > No one denies Astrology to be a devine Science. In fact it is. But when it is a science, it definitely bases on Mathematics. From beginning of casting of a horoscope we all use mathematics. For determining the position os Planets in the heaven we use mathematics. And why diregard mathematics while going for prediction? Punitji is right in saying that 'Double Transit " could be seen in most of the charts as per rule of posibilities. So it cannot be a tool for predictions of marriage. He also says, it helps in post mortem cases. If any one supports this method let him predict 5 cases of marriage and prove it. Let us end the theoritical discussion on this issue but face it and prove it in practice. I do not mean to hurt any one but wish to come to the right track of learning. > > > With due regards to all. > > > Dr. Rath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > R Satish <rsatish1942@ ...> > > > @gro ups.com > > > Thu, November 5, 2009 11:27:00 AM > > > Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense > > > > > >  > > >   Dear Punit and friends, > > > > > >           I would suggest we also examine Lagna/7th  or Moon/7th being  aspected by both Jup and Sat simultaneously. Additionally on the day of marriage,Venus aspects Mars. > > > > > >           These will improve the strike rate. In any case % adove 60 is a myth  on CONSISTENT basis. > > > > > > > > >            We trying to make a difficult job easier.Astrology cannot be reduced to mathematics, once we consider it a divine science. > > > > > >            Regards, > > > > > >            ; Satish > > > > > >            > > >            > > > --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > > > Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense > > > >@gro ups.com > > > >Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 6:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Friends, > > > > > > > >KP made timing an event much more easier. Though as a KP astrologer, I always feel that it will be nice to have another complementary method by which we can cross-check and confirm. In search of another such method for timing events, I looked into many methods and Shri KN Rao's double transit is among them. > > > > > > > >I personally feel that it is merely a tool for post-mortem and not useful for future predictions. Let us take an example of Marriage. Double-transit suggests that transiting Jupiter and Saturn will always be aspecting Natal 7th and 7th lord at the time of marriage. > > > > > > > >Now Jupiter has three aspects - 5,7, and 9. So including its own position, it will be influencing four houses in any chart. Which means that at any point of time the possibility of aspecting 7th is 33.33% and 7th lord is also 33.33%. If we take Jupiter's influence on either 7th OR 7th lord, possibility will double from 4/12 to 8/12 or 66.66%. So at any time, we have 66.66% possibility of Jupiter aspecting either 7th or 7th lord. In other words, around 66% of time in one's life, we will see that Jupiter is influencing either 7th or 7th. Of course, this calculation doesn't consider some of the possibility e.g. 7th lord is in 7th house itself. Anyways, I have seen Shri KN Rao is also checking Moon for transit other than Ascendant. Which doubles the possibility and if somehow Jupiter is not aspecting 7th and 7th lord counting from Lagna, it will aspect 7th or 7th lord from Moon. So in any point of one's life, if take transit from Moon as well as > > Ascendant, > > > it is almost certain that Jupiter will influencing either 7th from ascendant, or 7th lord from ascendant, or 7th from Moon, or 7th lord from Moon. > > > > > > > >Similarly, Saturn also has 3 aspects and the above write-up is true for Saturn as well. In other words, seeing the above possibility, I feel that Double-Transit doesn't make sense at all. > > > > > > > >To sound this method sensible and experimental purpose, I checked reducing the possibility by checking transit only from Ascendant. If I do that way, I have many cases where it fails. > > > > > > > >In other words, I do not find Double-transit theory useful at all. > > > > > > > >Thanks & Regards, > > > > > > > >Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:06 PM, aashish rai <raiaashish@ . co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Dear Sundar, > > > >> > > > >>In classical astrology there are so many dashas, if vimshottari was only required than why did Parashara muni talked about so many dashas. Other dashas like Yogini are showing it. > > > >> > > > >>Let’s forget about DBAs for time being as per double transit theory of Shri Kn rao  marriage chances are high when transit Saturn  and Jupiter aspect natal 1/7 axis or their natal lords. In rare cases 9th lord will be involved. > > > >> > > > >>Natal chart, > > > >>Jupier is aspecting natal 7th lord, lagna lord and Lagna > > > >>Saturn is sitting in Lagna itself, aspecting 7th house > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Won’t be surprised if there is a child birth/pregency before end august 2010 !!! > > > >> > > > >>Regards, > > > >>Aashish > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Sundar <sundar190561@ .co. in> > > > >> > > > >>@gro ups.com > > > >>Wed, 4 November, 2009 10:31:33 AM > > > >> Re: Post mortem analysis of marriage > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Dear Aashish > > > >> > > > >>I know you would say, venus is the UL lord, hence the marriage in venus PAD. But did you see venus was debilitated on the day of marriage? > > > >> > > > >>Thanks.... .. ....Sundar > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>@gro ups.com, aashish rai <raiaashish@ ...> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Sundarji, > > > >>> I have just started learning KP and yet to pick up the basics. but if you use traditional astrology it's very clear. As this forum is for KP only I am not elaborating. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> Aashish > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > >>> Sundar <sundar190561@ ...> > > > >>> @gro ups.com > > > >> > > > >>> Sun, 1 November, 2009 10:59:22 PM > > > >>> Post mortem analysis of marriage > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Dear Learned members > > > >>> > > > >>> My neighbour go married on 21st Oct, 2009 between 9 to 10am. The transit of DBAS does not fully signify the event fully. > > > >>> > > > >>> dob: 25th Aug, 1979 > > > >>> tob: 9.37 (rectified) > > > >>> pob: Mumbai > > > >>> > > > >>> Time of birth reported is 9.22am > > > >>> Ayanamsha : 23.28.58 > > > >>> > > > >>> dasha/bukti/ antra > > > >>> > > > >>> planet sgl stl sl > > > >>> (MD)rahu(11) sun(11,12) venus(11,2-9) venus(11,2-9) > > > >>> (AD)ketu(5) sat(12,5-6) rahu(11) venus(11,2-9) > > > >>> (PAD)venus(11, 2-9) sun(11,12) ketu(5) jupiter(11,4- 7) > > > >>> > > > >>> rahu=sun(11, 12) > > > >>> ketu=saturn( 12,5-6) > > > >>> > > > >>> Marriage on 21st October 2009 between 9 am to 10 am > > > >>> > > > >>> planet sgl stl sl > > > >>> (MD)rahu(4) sat(12,5-6) sun(1,12) jupiter(5,4- 7) > > > >>> (AD)ketu(10) moon(2,11) jupiter(5,4- 7) rahu-MD(4) > > > >>> (PAD)venus(12, 2-9) mer(1,1-10) moon(2,11) rahu-MD(4) > > > >>> > > > >>> sun venus(12,2-9) mars(10,3-8) venus(12,2-9) > > > >>> moon mars(10,3-8) sat(12,5-6) venus(12,2-9) > > > >>> > > > >>> Baed on the above it is seen that MD/AD/PAD does not fully signify DBAS (except for ketu, which is rahu's sub. > > > >>> > > > >>> In the light of the above how do we reconcile the timing of marriage. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks...... ...Sundar > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>__________ _________ _________ ____ > > > Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2009 Dear vijay, thats an unnecessary controversy. Both mother and father are equally responsible. Ur view isnt supported in any scripture. Hence you should take fourth house also, just as you take 9th house.ThanksSanthoshSent from BlackBerry® on Airtel "vijay.goel" <goyalvjThu, 12 Nov 2009 11:31:01 -0000 Re: BTR Theory Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur , "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> /message/26419> > > , "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBLE. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > -------------------------> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > -----------------> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 12, 2009 Dear Vijay, It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... ! With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi--- On Thu, 11/12/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj Re: BTR Theory Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 11:31 AM Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 13, 2009 I fully agree with Mr. Lajmiji. Dr. Rath Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi Cc: vijay.goel <goyalvjThu, November 12, 2009 9:03:42 PMRe: Re: BTR Theory Dear Vijay, It is safer,and better to take the mother...because only the mother knows who the real father is... ! With best wishes, Yogesh Lajmi--- On Thu, 11/12/09, vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: vijay.goel <goyalvj (AT) gmail (DOT) com> Re: BTR Theory@gro ups.comThursday, November 12, 2009, 11:31 AM Respected members,On BTR method:Since the birth of a child takes place when the father of the child runs the joint period of Planets that are fruitful significators of 2,5 and 11 we say that the Ascdt of the child should be co-ruled by Planets that are linked to 10,5 and 7 houses (i.e 2,5,and 11 from 9). I took father because he is mainly responsible for the seed and gender of the child.Did we had the discussion on this concept earlier, did we applied and checked the validity of above statement, is it logically correct as per KP methods to apply it. ???Just a curiocity !Thankyou,Best Wishes,Vijay GoelJaipur@gro ups.com, "TW" <tw853 wrote:>> http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 26419> > > @gro ups.com, "Suprakash Ghosh" suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> >> > I think Lajmiji's point is very easy to verify by being present at any Nursing Home and noting down the time of First Cry. The clock must be a digital one and tuned to atomic clock. 3-4 cases are sufficient to have a first cut idea. Any doc in this forum to help?> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > > > - > > Punit Pandey > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, November 10, 2009 5:39 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > > > Dear Suprakash ji,> > > > The topic is closed because there were no fresh ideas. We were not heading anywhere due to very limited participation. What we were seeing was 'repeatation' of whatever was already said. > > > > If there is something new and fresh, please feel free to start a new topic. We must always remember that is is never possible that all accept our points. Acceptation of rejection is one's own choice. What most we can do is put our point best of our understanding. Truly speaking, I myself lost interest in this topic, because every time we are discussing the same point for few years now and without any method of concluding anything. Probably we need to give more emphasis to event verification for the rectified time. That seems the only method to decide in such a situation. > > > > Thanks & Regards,> > > > Punit Pandey> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Suprakash Ghosh suprakash.ghosh@ wrote:> > > > > >  > > > > Dear Punitji> > > > I personally feel that Senthilji has valid logic. On the other hand Lajmiji has his experience. We have to meet the both ends. for that we need research and case study. Who else other than us can find a good theory with valid logic? Remember KSk was always for logical thinking.> > I think it is not wise to close the topic. It may generate heat..but that is a healthy sign .. solution comes from conflct...not bypassing it.> > > > Regards> > > > Suprakash> > > > - > > Senthil > > @gro ups.com > > Cc: rathluther@ > > Sunday, November 08, 2009 9:05 AM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath, > > > > > > Further to my E-mail below I would like to add some more points. I have taken the whole zodiac (360 Degree) and worked out the total Degree occupied by the each SUB lords. Which is actually equal to the respective planet’s Vimshotri Year x 3 (=Vimshotri Year /120 x 360 Deg). > > > > > > Ascendant> > SUB> > LORD> > Total Birth > > Zone> > (Degree)> > Total No > > Birth Zone> > (Degree)> > Total Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > Total No Birth Time Zone (hh:mm)> > > > KET> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > VEN> > 60> > 300> > 4:00> > 20:00> > > > SUN> > 18> > 342> > 1:12> > 22:48> > > > MOO> > 30> > 330> > 2:00> > 22:00> > > > MAR> > 21> > 339> > 1:24> > 22:36> > > > RAH> > 54> > 306> > 3:36> > 20:24> > > > JUP> > 48> > 312> > 3:12> > 20:48> > > > SAT> > 57> > 303> > 3:48> > 20:12> > > > MER> > 51> > 309> > 3:24> > 20:36> > > > > > > > > > > > For example if you take SUN sub, it is occupied in the different Sign, Star of the zodiac whose total degree workout to 18 Degree. This means that the total possible childbirth Zone (Ascendant movement zone) is 18 Degree only (1Hr: 12min). So the balance 342 Degree in the zodiac can be called as total NO BIRTH ZONE (Here No birth Zone word is appropriate instead of calling it as barren Zone which will confuse more) the corresponding total NO BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (22Hr: 48min). > > > > > > If you consider the MOON motion per day it varies from 11 Degree to 15 Degree depending upon the Sign, Star in which it is transiting. Suppose the MOON motion is 11Degree in a particular day who’s constellation is SUN then the MOON will take approximately 29 Hours to complete the Transit over SUN star. So the one full movement of ascendant will happen in 24 hours plus 5 hours in the next day also. Within these 5 hours the approximate movement of ascendant will 70 Degree (at the rate of 1 deg for 4 min). During this time the BIRTH ZONE(total) works out to 3Degree 20minute only (0Hr: 13min: 20Sec assuming that the ascendant transit happens from Zero Degree Aries to 15 Degree Gemini). So the balance 71Degree 40Minute in the zodiac the ascendant will transit again in NO BIRTH ZONE(total) corresponding NO BIRTH TIME ZONE(total) works out to 4Hr: 46min: 40Sec. > > > > > > Within 29 hours block time (worst case) as a total the NO BIRTH TIME ZONE and BIRTH TIME ZONE works out to (27Hr: 34min: 40Sec) and (1Hr: 25min: 20Sec) respectively. Kindly note that in this case the NATAL MOON position and the Ascendant need not be in closer range/orb and the Ascendant can be anywhere in the zodiac. So if the MOON is in SUN star, In this world no birth should happen for about 27Hr: 34min: 40Sec(as a total not consecutive time) out of 29 hours block time. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT/IMPOSSIBL E. THERE ARE AMPLE NO OF CHANCES THAT THE CHILDBIRTH CAN HAPPEN DURING THIS TIME INTERVAL AROUND THE WORLD AT SOMEWHERE AT SOME PLACE WHO’S ASCENDANT CAN BE IN THE NO BIRTH ZONE ALSO. SO NOW YOU CAN DECIDE THE RULE IS ACCEPTABLE OR NOT!!!!!!! > > > > > > GOOD LUCK! > > > > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Sat, 11/7/09, Senthil athi_ram@ wrote:> > > > > > Senthil athi_ram@> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Cc: rathluther@> > Saturday, November 7, 2009, 9:21 AM> > > > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > I have made some quick table for the typical NATAL MOON star position in RAH. The table for the ascendant sub for the first 120Deg in the zodiac is compared with consecutive occurrence of RAH sub and the results are given below.> > > > > > Hr.No. > > > > > > RASI > > > > > > Sgn > > > > > > Str > > > > > > Sub > > > > > > Degree> > Diff.> > > > 1> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > KET> > 000:00:00> > > > > > 2> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > VEN> > 000:46:40> > > > > > 3> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SUN> > 003:00:00> > > > > > 4> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MOO> > 003:40:00> > > > > > 5> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MAR> > 004:46:40> > > > > > 6> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > RAH> > 005:33:20> > 011:26:40> > > > 7> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > JUP> > 007:33:20> > > > > > 8> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > SAT> > 009:20:00> > > > > > 9> > RA1> > MAR> > KET> > MER> > 011:26:40> > > > > > 10> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > VEN> > 013:20:00> > > > > > 11> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SUN> > 015:33:20> > > > > > 12> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MOO> > 016:13:20> > > > > > 13> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MAR> > 017:20:00> > > > > > 14> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > RAH> > 018:06:40> > 012:33:20> > > > 15> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > JUP> > 020:06:40> > > > > > 16> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > SAT> > 021:53:20> > > > > > 17> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > MER> > 024:00:00> > > > > > 18> > RA1> > MAR> > VEN> > KET> > 025:53:20> > > > > > 19> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > SUN> > 026:40:00> > > > > > 20> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MOO> > 027:20:00> > > > > > 21> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > MAR> > 028:26:40> > > > > > 22> > RA1> > MAR> > SUN> > RAH> > 029:13:20> > 011:06:40> > > > 23> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > RAH> > 030:00:00> > > > > > 24> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > JUP> > 031:13:20> > > > > > 25> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > SAT> > 033:00:00> > > > > > 26> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > MER> > 035:06:40> > > > > > 27> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > KET> > 037:00:00> > > > > > 28> > RA2> > VEN> > SUN> > VEN> > 037:46:40> > > > > > 29> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MOO> > 040:00:00> > > > > > 30> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MAR> > 041:06:40> > > > > > 31> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > RAH> > 041:53:20> > 011:53:20> > > > 32> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > JUP> > 043:53:20> > > > > > 33> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SAT> > 045:40:00> > > > > > 34> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > MER> > 047:46:40> > > > > > 35> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > KET> > 049:40:00> > > > > > 36> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > VEN> > 050:26:40> > > > > > 37> > RA2> > VEN> > MOO> > SUN> > 052:40:00> > > > > > 38> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > MAR> > 053:20:00> > > > > > 39> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > RAH> > 054:06:40> > 012:13:20> > > > 40> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > JUP> > 056:06:40> > > > > > 41> > RA2> > VEN> > MAR> > SAT> > 057:53:20> > > > > > 42> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MER> > 060:00:00> > > > > > 43> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > KET> > 061:53:20> > > > > > 44> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > VEN> > 062:40:00> > > > > > 45> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > SUN> > 064:53:20> > > > > > 46> > RA3> > MER> > MAR> > MOO> > 065:33:20> > > > > > 47> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > RAH> > 066:40:00> > 012:33:20> > > > 48> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > JUP> > 068:40:00> > > > > > 49> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SAT> > 070:26:40> > > > > > 50> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MER> > 072:33:20> > > > > > 51> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > KET> > 074:26:40> > > > > > 52> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > VEN> > 075:13:20> > > > > > 53> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > SUN> > 077:26:40> > > > > > 54> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MOO> > 078:06:40> > > > > > 55> > RA3> > MER> > RAH> > MAR> > 079:13:20> > > > > > 56> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > JUP> > 080:00:00> > > > > > 57> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SAT> > 081:46:40> > > > > > 58> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MER> > 083:53:20> > > > > > 59> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > KET> > 085:46:40> > > > > > 60> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > VEN> > 086:33:20> > > > > > 61> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > SUN> > 088:46:40> > > > > > 62> > RA3> > MER> > JUP> > MOO> > 089:26:40> > > > > > 63> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MOO> > 090:00:00> > > > > > 64> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > MAR> > 090:33:20> > > > > > 65> > RA4> > MOO> > JUP> > RAH> > 091:20:00> > 024:40:00> > > > 66> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SAT> > 093:20:00> > > > > > 67> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MER> > 095:26:40> > > > > > 68> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > KET> > 097:20:00> > > > > > 69> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > VEN> > 098:06:40> > > > > > 70> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > SUN> > 100:20:00> > > > > > 71> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MOO> > 101:00:00> > > > > > 72> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > MAR> > 102:06:40> > > > > > 73> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > RAH> > 102:53:20> > 011:33:20> > > > 74> > RA4> > MOO> > SAT> > JUP> > 104:53:20> > > > > > 75> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MER> > 106:40:00> > > > > > 76> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > KET> > 108:33:20> > > > > > 77> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > VEN> > 109:20:00> > > > > > 78> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SUN> > 111:33:20> > > > > > 79> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MOO> > 112:13:20> > > > > > 80> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > MAR> > 113:20:00> > > > > > 81> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > RAH> > 114:06:40> > 011:13:20> > > > 82> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > JUP> > 116:06:40> > > > > > 83> > RA4> > MOO> > MER> > SAT> > 117:53:20> > > > > > > > > > > > The Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrence of RAH sub is 24Deg40m (= 1Hour 38Min 40 Sec). Amoung all the star if you assume NATAL MOON is deposited in SUN Star then the Highest difference in degree between two consecutive occurrences of SUN sub is 26Deg(= 1Hour 44Min which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac).Here we have assumed the average ascendant(lagna) motion about 4min for 1Deg. Actually it dependes upon the latitude of the place where some times it may take more than 2hours to cross one sign (which is 30Deg).> > > > In case of first childbirth we take the 5th Cusp sub lord & it's relation with barren Sign to decide the childbirth. Here there is no question about fruitful or barren. We are talking about movement of ascendant sub for possible childbirth at particular time zone only.> > > > Earlier i have mentioned about 54min time gap between two consecutive childbirth around the globe (for particular case) But now it is found that the highest time difference is about 1Hour 44Min (that is 26Deg, which is almost 87% of one full SIGN in the zodiac). This is absolutely impossible. There are plenty of chances that the childbirth can happen during this time interval around the globe. So now you can decide the RULE is acceptable or not!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Friday, November 6, 2009, 9:34 PM> > > > > > > > Sir, > > Today Moon is transiting in the constellation of Rahu in Gemini. So as per rule in question babies should take birth when Rahu sub arises in various constellations in various signs. Now when I am writing this the ascendant rising is 24 degrees Sagittarius. The rising sub is Mercury. So now there should be no deliveries. The next delevery should take place when 29-13-20 Sagittarius arises in the east till 1-13-20 Capricorn rises. Then deleveries stop till again 11-53-2o Capricorn rises.> > The next delevery times shall be as follows :-> > Capricorn 24-06-40> > Aquarius 6-40-00> > Pisces 1-20-00> > Pisces 12-53-20> > Pisces 24-06-40> > Aries 5-33-20> > Aries 18-06-40> > Aries 29-13-20> > Taurus 11-53-20> > Taurus 24-06-40> > Gemini 6-40-00> > Cancer 1-20-00> > Cancer 24-06-40> > and so on. So do we consider the other zones are baren for today? Shall there e no deleveries during other periods as long as Mon transits in constellation of Rahu? When one sub of a particular constellation is fruitful the other 8 subs are baren? I may please be corrected if my understanding is wrong. It is a mater of concern how for is this acceptable rule.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -> > Senthil athi_ram >> > @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 8:35:44 PM> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear Dr.Rath,> > > > Yes you are correct. It is an average only. But the point is that there are births can happen with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon and such birth chart i have seen already. > > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, Luther Rath rathluther > wrote:> > > > > > Luther Rath rathluther >> > Re: Re: BTR Theory> > @gro ups.com> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 10:36 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Senthil,> > The statictics is true. On an average there shall take place 4 births/second. But in some seconds there may not be any birth and in next second there may be more than 4 births. I am not here to emphasize this. I would like to emphasize that there can be births with in anorb of 0 to 3 degrees from the position of Moon. We should not forget this while applying the rule in question while conducting BTR.> > Dr. Rath> > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --> > Senthil athi_ram >> > mssumich mssumich >> > Cc: @gro ups.com> > Fri, November 6, 2009 5:27:00 AM> > Re: BTR Theory> > > > > > Dear MS.> > > > Yes your understanding is correct. Please see the link given below for Population Statistics.> > > > http://www.wholesom ewords.org/ missions/ greatc.html> > > > No of birth per day in year 2009 = 353,015 births > > =14708.95833 per hour> > = 245.1493056 per minute> > = 4.085821759 per second.> > > > So as an average per second 4 children birth happens at any of the places in this world. So the lagna for some child at some place will defenitely fall with in 0 to 3 deg orb from MOON position. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Hope the above gives the required information.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/5/09, mssumich mssumich > wrote:> > > > > > mssumich mssumich >> > BTR Theory> > "Senthil" athi_ram >> > Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:43 PM> > > > > > Dear Shri Senthil> > If I understood you correctly - you are saying that there are so many births taking place every minute in this world. Every time the Asc sublord will not be in Moon's star. - This rule will not hold true. The math part of the proof you gave is very clear.> > > > Have I understood you correctly Sir? Please let me know.> > Thanks> > MS> > > > > > > > > > Dear TinWin,> > > > Please see the message ID No.28959.> > http://groups. / group/k_p_ system/message/ 28959> > > > With the simple logical calculation shows very clearly that the method(RULE) WILL NOT WORK. As per the calculation no lagna(ascendant) position will fall within +/-13.5 deg (54minute time) from natal MOON position. Which means no birth should happen during this period in the world. How can we say that this will not happen? It is practically incorrect and thus the RULE will FAIL. I have seen charts where Natal MOON & lagna(ascendant) are in same sign within 3degree orb.> > > > Anyhow you have done some study to prove the same with practical example and thanks for the same.> > > > GOOD LUCK!> > > > D.Senthil> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
