Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense

November 6, 2009

Dear Friends, Let us put the theories into practice with a 'Hot Case'. Birth details: Boy Sept 13,1980 TOB 1559 hrs Place Dadar,Mumbai . What is the wedding date fixed. Regards, Satish--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey

<punitpRe: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 11:00 AM

Dear Atul ji,

Thanks for sharing this information. Though this is the fourth variation for Double-Transit that we are seeing here. Also this is NOT what Shri KN Rao has taught in his books. As far as I remember, he has not used lagna in Double Transit?

Anyways, this is another rule that I'll check and come back.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, atul m <atulmaydeo > wrote:

Dear AllI know this is not Parashari system forum but discussion started on Double transit of K N Rao so thought of sharing precise and complete details on this as per my knowledge and considering researched output from various eminent astrologers like M N Kedar, K N Rao, S N Kapoor, J N Gupta and Others -

Four Tier Scheme of Composite Transit for Marriage Timings as per eminent astrologers like M N Kedar, K N Rao (although K N Rao further ratifies with Jaimini system as well apart from Parashari) and others as per below -

1. Saturn & Jupiter - Should have in transit aspected or transited over: a) Lagna and 7th House; or b) Lagna and 7th Lord; or c) Lagna lord and 7th house or d) Lagna lord and 7th lord

(saturn within 27 months and jupiter within 12 months)2. Jupiter - a) Natal Venus and 5th house/lord or b) 5th house and 9th house or c) 5th lord and 9th house or d) 5th house and 9th lord or

e) 5th lord and 9th lord3. Mars - should have in transit covered within six months: a) what saturn and Jupiter must do, see(1) above; and b) what jupiter must do see (2) above4. The 7th lord -

the 7th lord, in transit within 40 days of any marriage must establish contact with any of the following: a) the 11th lord b) the 9th lord c) the lagna lordAlso, at the time of marriage the lords of 7th, 9th, 5th and lagna will be mutually connected (P-position, A- aspect, C-conjunction) and in most of the cases these will be around 7th, lagna or their lords.

Note - Retrograde planets aspect from previous house as well.The results are very positive (more than 90%) with the above schemes after applying on large number of horoscopes for predicting marriage timings.

if you tie-up with Jaimini dasha system then results are extreamly positive (97-98%).Although, normally it ties-up with Vimshottari Dasha system by all Parashari astrologers.Important - This applies considering horoscope does not have marriage denial features and in case of delayed horoscope, marriage turns up in 2nd round or some time 3rd round saturn and Jupiter transit as per above scheme.

Although, marriage denial and very delayed (computing delay fators) is a seprate topic.Also, you may have noticed that moon or aspect from moon is NOT considered in this rule for predicting marriage timing.

Hope this information is useful to all interested members.RegardsAtul Maydeo.(if you haven't tried, you haven't lived so keep trying...) --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense@gro ups.com

Friday, November 6, 2009, 12:02 AM

Dear Satish,

So the rule for marriage you are suggesting is -

Condition 1. Jupiter should aspect ascendant or 7th house and Saturn should aspect Moon or 7th house from Moon

Condition 2. Saturn should aspect ascendant or 7th house and Jupiter should aspect Moon or 7th house from Moon

One of the above condition should be fulfilled. Is it what you are suggesting?

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, my observation was based on Shri KN Rao's teaching of Saturn and Jupiter's aspect on 7th and 7th lord. What you are telling seems different. Anyways, I'll try it out sometime and see.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 7:30 PM, R Satish <rsatish1942@ > wrote:

Dear Punit,

What you say about Jup is perfect and easy to understand. When you take the Simultaneous transit of Sat over Lagna/7th or Moon/7th,these percentages get affected.

To clarify if Jup is aspecting Lagn/7th then Sat must aspect Moon/7th to fulfill the requirements.

As I mentioned,these happenings are not over 60% consistently. If it were so it would become a simple rule all emcompassing. To improve the % factor Venus/mars have been brought into the picture.

Even in KP,for marriages, we started with 2,7,11 houses. Later it became 2, 5,7 11 Astro secrets Pt 1). Then we added 5,8 houses to 2,7,11. Khullar has his rules so does Baskaran.. To add to this confusion, we added sub-sub theories.

It is a matter of time when the original formula would undergo such transformation, we would be unable to recognize the original.

Whether to use it for prediction or postmortem is a personal choice.Post mortem is easier to handle.However for predictions, we need the skills to try for corroboration one or more of these combinations for best-fit.

I for one, attempt to use KP + some others including Double-Transit of Jup/Sat (as I understand).

Failed predictions are a part of the game. I humbly accept,I am still a

learner and have many more miles to go.

Regards,

Satish

--- On Thu, 11/5/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense

@gro ups.com

Thursday, November 5, 2009, 12:22 PM

Dear Satish,

What I am trying to convey that the rule will be true at any piont of time in one's life because it is too vague. Please go through my earlier email on this topic. The rule can not only justify marriage in 10 charts but in any chart.

Let us take today's chart as an example taking Leo as ascedant (12:06PM, Agra). Saturn is 7th lord from Leo and 7th sign from Leo is Aquarius.

Jupiter is aspecting 7th lord Saturn (1st year). Next year (2nd year), Jupiter will be transiting over 7th house. Next year to that (3rd year), Jupiter will again 7th aspecting 7th lord. 4th year, there will no aspect on 7th and 7th lord. 5th year Jupiter will have 5th aspect on 7th lord. 6th year, Jupiter will be aspecting 7th house. 7th year, Jupiter will be transiting over 7th lord from Moon. 8th year, Jupiter will be aspecting 7th house from 7th aspect. 9th year, Jupiter will be transiting over 7th lord. 10 year, Jupiter will have 5th aspect on 7th house. 11th year, Jupiter will be transiting 7th from Moon. 12th year, again Jupiter will be aspecting 7th lord.

Jupiter cycle repeats every 12 year, so it is safe to say that at almost any point of this person's life (born today at 12:06PM at Agra), Jupiter will be either aspecting 7th or 7th lord from Ascendant or Moon. 11/12 = 92% possibility. Even If we check the rule only from Ascendant (and ignore Moon), Jupiter will be aspecting 7th or 7th lord 9/12=75% of time. In other words, whatever year this person marries, double-transit will be able to justify it :-) Does Double Transit make any sense?

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:52 AM, R Satish <rsatish1942@ > wrote:

Dear Punit,

I refer to the book"ADVANCED TECHNIQUES OF ASTROLOGICAL

PREDICTIONS" edited Sri KN Rao.In one of the chapters 'Tajika Shastra and Marriage

timing of Event" by Dr R K Wishwakarma, he has given 8 rules for timing marriage date with

case studies. He validates 10 samples ,where Sat/Jup aspect 7th house/lord.

He adds further Venus/Mars interconnection on marriage date.

We can only try to minimise the number of rules,but cannot reduce

significantly, all introduced thru trial and error,like we are presently doing.

Regards,

Satish--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense

@gro ups.com

Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 11:15 PM

Dear Mssumich,

Please note few points -

1. A method needs to be mathematically correct first before we can talk about predictive aspect of the method. As I mentioned this method is fundamentally flawed and doesn't make sense. I have mentioned the reason and would love to hear if somebody can show that I am missing something.

2. Double transit, as mentioned by Paul Manley, is different from what Shri KN Rao has used in his books. By Double-Transit, Shri KN Rao doesn't mean that both the planet should aspect one single sign, but one planet aspecting the house and other house lord (generally). As I demonstrated, this condition will match almost 100% of time and hence it makes this tool a good tool for post-mortem and justification. Though not useful for predictions.

3. If a method doesn't work, we should leave it and move on. If we will not accept that the method doesn't make sense, we can not discard it. By saying something like "we need to check dasa and yoga etc.", we want to prove it some way or other. Why? If it doens't work, it doesn't work. We should not accpet anything blindly. There are quite a few teachings by Shri KN Rao that works and we should use them. Teachings that do not work, we should discard them.

4. I don not understand why you are mixing placidus with double-transit. Let us not mix both the threads. Though i guess that the way you asked your earlier question was not good for generating discussion. In my opinion, correct way for asking question is to present your own analysis and ask your question. If you are learner, you should present your detailed analysis. What is your analysis as per KP? What is your analysis as per Traditional? Saying that I am able to justify events using Traditional but not KP seems too vague a statement. I do not see reference of Sub in your post. I don't see reference of Nakshatra in your post. That doesn't qualify as a KP analysis and hence doesn't provoke any response. This I guess may be the reason you didn't get response.

Thanks & Regards,

Punit Pandey

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 9:45 PM, mssumich <mssumich > wrote:

Hi PunitLike many of the 100s of tools that Jyotish gives - don't believe in all the techniques that one comes up with. From Paul Manley's website here is what he says"What you'll see in the following illustrations is how the sign(s) that gets the double transit will shift, generally from year to year. In fact, there are only two positions of Jupiter and Saturn that will not have the double transit phenomenon â€“ when Jupiter is in the 8th or 12th house from Saturn. This means that 10 out of the 12 possible positions, or more than 80% of the time, there will be the double transit phenomenon happening in at least one sign, possibly two."

I have see this double transit work sometimes and sometimes not. Obviuosly we have to pay attention to sookshma transits (or finer transits) and just double transit.I urge some expert to answer my question on the Placidus house system for a chart that I put on the other day. One bhava covers 58 deg of zodiac, there are 3 planets in 8th house; This person is very succesful. I can explain every event using vedic astreology and nakshatra analysis. The moment I put 3 planets in 8th in this chart, I am lost.

For latititude that are closer to 66 deg N or S - I believe the Placidus system of houses give wierd house cusps(correct me if I am wrong). This actor was born in Scotland where latitude in 55deg. My question is for people born in such norhtern altitudes -what system works? Is it still Placidus wasy of calculating houses or something else. There should a clear answer from KP experts. I am hoping there is that person in this list.

thanks

@gro ups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:>> Dear Friends,>

> KP made timing an event much more easier. Though as a KP astrologer, I> always feel that it will be nice to have another complementary method by> which we can cross-check and confirm. In search of another such method for

> timing events, I looked into many methods and Shri KN Rao's double transit> is among them.> > I personally feel that it is merely a tool for post-mortem and not useful> for future predictions. Let us take an example of Marriage. Double-transit

> suggests that transiting Jupiter and Saturn will always be aspecting Natal> 7th and 7th lord at the time of marriage.> > Now Jupiter has three aspects - 5,7, and 9. So including its own position,

> it will be influencing four houses in any chart. Which means that at any> point of time the possibility of aspecting 7th is 33.33% and 7th lord is> also 33.33%. If we take Jupiter's influence on either 7th OR 7th lord,

> possibility will double from 4/12 to 8/12 or 66.66%. So at any time, we have> 66.66% possibility of Jupiter aspecting either 7th or 7th lord. In other> words, around 66% of time in one's life, we will see that Jupiter is

> influencing either 7th or 7th. Of course, this calculation doesn't consider> some of the possibility e.g. 7th lord is in 7th house itself. Anyways, I> have seen Shri KN Rao is also checking Moon for transit other than

> Ascendant. Which doubles the possibility and if somehow Jupiter is not> aspecting 7th and 7th lord counting from Lagna, it will aspect 7th or 7th> lord from Moon. So in any point of one's life, if take transit from Moon as

> well as Ascendant, it is almost certain that Jupiter will influencing either> 7th from ascendant, or 7th lord from ascendant, or 7th from Moon, or 7th> lord from Moon.> > Similarly, Saturn also has 3 aspects and the above write-up is true for

> Saturn as well. In other words, seeing the above possibility, I feel that> Double-Transit doesn't make sense at all.> > To sound this method sensible and experimental purpose, I checked reducing

> the possibility by checking transit only from Ascendant. If I do that way, I> have many cases where it fails.> > In other words, I do not find Double-transit theory useful at all.> > Thanks & Regards,

> > Punit Pandey> >

> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:06 PM, aashish rai <raiaashish@. ..> wrote:> > >> >> > Dear Sundar,> >> > In classical astrology there are so many dashas, if vimshottari was only

> > required than why did Parashara muni talked about so many dashas. Other> > dashas like Yogini are showing it.> >> >> >> > Let's forget about DBAs for time being as per double transit theory of Shri

> > Kn rao marriage chances are high when transit Saturn and Jupiter aspect> > natal 1/7 axis or their natal lords. In rare cases 9th lord will be> > involved.> >> >> >

> > Natal chart,> >> > Jupier is aspecting natal 7th lord, lagna lord and Lagna> >> > Saturn is sitting in Lagna itself, aspecting 7th house> >> >> >

> >> > Won't be surprised if there is a child birth/pregency before end august> > 2010 !!!> >> > Regards,> > Aashish> >> > ------------ --------- ---------

> > ** Sundar <sundar190561@ ...>> >> > *To:* @gro ups.com

> > *Sent:* Wed, 4 November, 2009 10:31:33 AM> > *Subject:* Re: Post mortem analysis of marriage> >> >> >> > Dear Aashish> >> > I know you would say, venus is the UL lord, hence the marriage in venus

> > PAD. But did you see venus was debilitated on the day of marriage?> >> > Thanks...... .....Sundar> >> > @gro ups.com <%40. com>, aashish > > rai <raiaashish@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sundarji,> > > I have just started learning KP and yet to pick up the basics. but if you> > use traditional astrology it's very clear. As this forum is for KP only I am

> > not elaborating.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Aashish> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Sundar <sundar190561@ ...>> > > @gro ups.com <%40. com>

> >> > > Sun, 1 November, 2009 10:59:22 PM> > > Post mortem analysis of marriage> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Learned members

> > >> > > My neighbour go married on 21st Oct, 2009 between 9 to 10am. The transit> > of DBAS does not fully signify the event fully.> > >> > > dob: 25th Aug, 1979

> > > tob: 9.37 (rectified)> > > pob: Mumbai> > >> > > Time of birth reported is 9.22am> > > Ayanamsha : 23.28.58> > >> > > dasha/bukti/ antra

> > >> > > planet sgl stl sl> > > (MD)rahu(11) sun(11,12) venus(11,2-9) venus(11,2-9)> > > (AD)ketu(5) sat(12,5-6) rahu(11) venus(11,2-9)> > > (PAD)venus(11, 2-9) sun(11,12) ketu(5) jupiter(11,4- 7)

> > >> > > rahu=sun(11, 12)> > > ketu=saturn( 12,5-6)> > >> > > Marriage on 21st October 2009 between 9 am to 10 am> > >> > > planet sgl stl sl

> > > (MD)rahu(4) sat(12,5-6) sun(1,12) jupiter(5,4- 7)> > > (AD)ketu(10) moon(2,11) jupiter(5,4- 7) rahu-MD(4)> > > (PAD)venus(12, 2-9) mer(1,1-10) moon(2,11) rahu-MD(4)> > >

> > > sun venus(12,2-9) mars(10,3-8) venus(12,2-9)> > > moon mars(10,3-8) sat(12,5-6) venus(12,2-9)> > >> > > Baed on the above it is seen that MD/AD/PAD does not fully signify DBAS

> > (except for ketu, which is rahu's sub.> > >> > > In the light of the above how do we reconcile the timing of marriage.> > >> > > Thanks...... ...Sundar

> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.

> > mail.. com/connectmore<http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore>> > >> >

> >> > ------------ --------- ---------> > Connect more, do more and share more with India Mail. Learn more<http://in.rd. / tagline_galaxy_ 3/*http:/ /in.overview. mail.. com/>

> > .> >> > > >>

November 6, 2009

ï»¿

Dear Satish

Marriage is promised very soon for this chart. It could happen anytime after November 21, 2009

Regards

Sudhir

-

R Satish

Friday, November 06, 2009 11:54 AM

Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense

Dear Friends,

Let us put the theories into practice with a 'Hot Case'.

Birth details: Boy Sept 13,1980 TOB 1559 hrs Place Dadar,Mumbai .

What is the wedding date fixed.

Regards,

Satish--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Punit Pandey <punitp > wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp >Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 11:00 AM

Dear Atul ji,

Thanks for sharing this information. Though this is the fourth variation for Double-Transit that we are seeing here. Also this is NOT what Shri KN Rao has taught in his books. As far as I remember, he has not used lagna in Double Transit?

Anyways, this is another rule that I'll check and come back.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:39 AM, atul m <atulmaydeo > wrote:

Dear AllI know this is not Parashari system forum but discussion started on Double transit of K N Rao so thought of sharing precise and complete details on this as per my knowledge and considering researched output from various eminent astrologers like M N Kedar, K N Rao, S N Kapoor, J N Gupta and Others - Four Tier Scheme of Composite Transit for Marriage Timings as per eminent astrologers like M N Kedar, K N Rao (although K N Rao further ratifies with Jaimini system as well apart from Parashari) and others as per below - 1. Saturn & Jupiter - Should have in transit aspected or transited over: a) Lagna and 7th House; or b) Lagna and 7th Lord; or c) Lagna lord and 7th house or d) Lagna lord and 7th lord (saturn within 27 months and jupiter within 12 months)2. Jupiter - a) Natal Venus and 5th house/lord or b) 5th house and 9th house or c) 5th lord and 9th house or d) 5th house and 9th lord or e) 5th lord and 9th lord3. Mars - should have in transit covered within six months: a) what saturn and Jupiter must do, see(1) above; and b) what jupiter must do see (2) above4. The 7th lord - the 7th lord, in transit within 40 days of any marriage must establish contact with any of the following: a) the 11th lord b) the 9th lord c) the lagna lordAlso, at the time of marriage the lords of 7th, 9th, 5th and lagna will be mutually connected (P-position, A- aspect, C-conjunction) and in most of the cases these will be around 7th, lagna or their lords.Note - Retrograde planets aspect from previous house as well.The results are very positive (more than 90%) with the above schemes after applying on large number of horoscopes for predicting marriage timings.if you tie-up with Jaimini dasha system then results are extreamly positive (97-98%).Although, normally it ties-up with Vimshottari Dasha system by all Parashari astrologers.Important - This applies considering horoscope does not have marriage denial features and in case of delayed horoscope, marriage turns up in 2nd round or some time 3rd round saturn and Jupiter transit as per above scheme.Although, marriage denial and very delayed (computing delay fators) is a seprate topic.Also, you may have noticed that moon or aspect from moon is NOT considered in this rule for predicting marriage timing.Hope this information is useful to all interested members.RegardsAtul Maydeo.(if you haven't tried, you haven't lived so keep trying...) --- On Fri, 11/6/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: Why Shri KN Rao's Double Transit doesn't make sense@gro ups.comFriday, November 6, 2009, 12:02 AM