Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham.... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear L.Y.Rao ji,Thanks for valuable input!RegardsAdithOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham.... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child... " > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham.... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child... " > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?SunaparanthaPunit Pandey <punitp Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..." > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Hi Friends 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way or the other will have link. 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. My lagna lord is Saturn.star lord is jupiter and sub lord is Saturn and Moon at Venus sign , Jupiter star and Saturn sub . Lagna star and Moon star lord is Jupiter and Moon sub lord is Saturn and lagna sign lord is Saturn . But, i am the 2nd issue to my parents and 2,5,11th houses indicates first child. Further research will help in developping in the same SP KHULLLAR's CIL truely helps in such cases i feel. K.Bhaskaran's books also very good , i am in little cifussion in the same and mostly in a short period i will get the correct explanations. Sahhasra Saagara--- On Wed, 21/1/09, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath wrote: adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinathRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 1:49 PM Dear L.Y.Rao ji,Thanks for valuable input!RegardsAdith On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comTuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is " I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child... " > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Sagar ji, // 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way or the other will have link. 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. // The above is too far fetched and unpalatable. This cannot be done successfully, and no one can prove that the resultant conclusion would be the right one arrived at. From the above, mostly all the planets ( And they number only 9 ) will come in picture, and any body on postmartem can connect the findings to all these planets and say that he has got the right answer or the right time of Birth. A few examples and illustrations given with the above , could have confirmed that you are yourself satisfied with the above, and could have also made us learn some new techniques. regards/Bhaskar. , Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote:>> Hi Friends> 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way or the other will have link.> 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. >  > My lagna lord is Saturn.star lord is jupiter and sub lord is Saturn and Moon at Venus sign , Jupiter star and Saturn sub . >  > Lagna star and Moon star lord is Jupiter and Moon sub lord is Saturn and lagna sign lord is Saturn .>  > But, i am the 2nd issue to my parents and 2,5,11th houses indicates first child.>  > Further research will help in developping in the same >  > SP KHULLLAR's CIL truely helps in such cases i feel.> K.Bhaskaran's books also very good , i am in little cifussion in the same and mostly in a short period i will get the correct explanations.> Sahhasra Saagara> > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath wrote:> > adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...> > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 1:49 PM> > > > > > > Dear L.Y.Rao ji,> > Thanks for valuable input!> > Regards> Adith> > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear Punit,>                 If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not...>                 The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct...>    (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.)>                 The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ...>                 At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!>                 With kind regards,>                  L.Y.Rao.>                                               GOOD LUCK !>             >                  > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> @gro ups.com> Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM> Re: Re: female and male chart how?> > > > Dear Friends, > > Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. > > In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. > > Thanks & Regards,> > Punit Pandey> > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote:> > > > > > > Dear tw ji,> > the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! > > Regards> Adith> > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 tw853 > wrote:> > > > > > > Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB and> Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP related> theories.> > If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not> to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy?> > > > > @gro ups.com, "swami" swami@ wrote:> >> > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >> To:@gro ups.com>> > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> > female and male chart how?> > Dear Elders, > > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate> whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > > > > > Dear Friends,> > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after> paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or> how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both> have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but> also from conception chart.> > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar> mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post> conception In A & A.> > Just to quote :> > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A> April 1980.> > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady and> as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25> AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts> 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and> 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is> the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in> such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which> should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)> will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to> arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart> lord of sub -sub may be different.> > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord> because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the> required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited> in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is not> required one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can be> verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and> planetary positions. > > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan> is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SAT> and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but> SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant> factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken> in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who is> posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that> native is a female one.> > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri> K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a few> unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quoted> above.> > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP> method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> > May be who knows.> > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub will> also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to> understand why this theory is untouchable?> > With regards.> > > > R.C.Srivastava. .> > swami@ > > > > > Past mails summary.> > > > By the way rule was > > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear> Suneel,> >    If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P> method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar :>  "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a> star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a> male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> >                    So far, I have found this method extremely> accurate...           L.Y.Rao.> > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> > Dear sri Rao garu,  > > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of the> native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the> chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can we> use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? > Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,> Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > * Personally,I use the method given in  Astrosecrets & K.P by> Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but I> include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes> ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I> use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> >                        It is well to remember that, if> the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same as> the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, is> exact to the minute...> > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> > Dear sri Rao Garu,  > > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam's> method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How to> to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a> male or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the> Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the> native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the native> is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the> Birth Time of the chart is correct.> > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above> method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri> Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Time> is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be> periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female> signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.> approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all> the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the> births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male> and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > > Dhanabalan > > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but with> a Pail of salt> > raichur anant mumbai> > * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> >> > > > > > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to http://in.messenger./> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards, AJOY--- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote:Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...." > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine. regards, AJOY--- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is " I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> @gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child.... " > So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dears Punit,Ajoy,Sunaparantha, In the chapter "Advanced Stellar Astrology" in the excellent book, Astrosecrets & Krishnamurthi Padhdhati, Part II, very simple methods to check whether a given Birth Chart is correctly cast or not...along with the rationale,are given : I shall endeavour to outline these briefly... The Sun,Jupiter and Venus,alone, are the three planets mainly responsible for human births... i) Sun is the Athma Karaka-chief sigificator of the soul... ii) Jupiter is Putrakaraka-chief significator for childbirth... iii)Venus isKamakaraka-chief significator for sexual pleasure... It has been observed by the late M.P.Shanmugham (the author of the book mentioned above),that Sun or Jupiter or Venus, are always found as the starlord or sublord of the IXth cusp...(along with an example,to enable one to use this rule/method correctly... Thus emerges the method, that if the IXth sublord is found to be under the said circumstances(sic), the horoscope cast is correct...to the minute... ! In the context of Ajoy's feeling that a lot has been said...etc., I suggest we follow the above method to verify the correctness of a Birth Chart...and let the group know their findings...as for me I have found it very useful... Correct Birth Time theory is ..." the starlord of Lagna-sub lord,should indicate clearly the Moon sign or Birth-star of the native...and so on... To be absolutely sure,one should verify the correctness of the given TOB,using atleast 2 or 3 methods given in K.P. As per K.P.,the theory that the Moon's star-lord and sub-lord should appear as the Ascendant's sublord and sub-sub lord respectively is based on theory that roughly after 9 months after the epoch(fertilisation),because,the Moon transits in that position,when birth takes place...(this is the same position where the Ascendant was at the time of epoch)...This method has been observed to be correct in around 75 % cases... Revered Guruji maitained that as per the Karma Theory the Ruling Planets at the time of Judgement,will be the same,at the "sprouting" of the seed(fertilisation,9 months before,but translocated). If we combine the above two,we shall be reaching the 100% correct level,which our revered Guruji wanted us to arrive at... ! Yet another method,at the practical level(sic),it is avered that the sub has to be true in all aspects upto the sub-sub level...For this,the Meridian Colei method is recommended,i.e., the Xth cusp... Comparatively, the first two methods are recommended for accuracy... So far,I have been following these methods.. I invite your critique/comments on the above...and I shall be grateful to any one if he can inform me a better and more accurate method of Birth Time Verification... With regards and best wishes, L.Y.Rao. Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009 4:16:09 PMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comWednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Sagarji, I said That " could have also made us learn some new techniques " . Here I mean explicitly l that I am not interested in learning this technique. I am quite satisfied with Original KP. without any further corruptions. best wishes, Bhaskar. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Sagar ji, > > // 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th > cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of > native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way > or the other will have link. > 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub cuspal > sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha > periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. // The > above is too far fetched and unpalatable. This cannot be done > successfully, and no one can prove that the resultant conclusion would > be the right one arrived at. From the above, mostly all the planets ( > And they number only 9 ) will come in picture, and any body on > postmartem can connect the findings to all these planets and say that > he has got the right answer or the right time of Birth. A few examples > and illustrations given with the above , could have confirmed that you > are yourself satisfied with the above, and could have also made us learn > some new techniques. regards/Bhaskar. > > , Sagar S ssagar86@ wrote: > > > > Hi Friends > > 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th > cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of > native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way > or the other will have link. > > 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub > cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha > periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. > >  > > My lagna lord is Saturn.star lord is jupiter and sub lord is Saturn > and Moon at Venus sign , Jupiter star and Saturn sub . > >  > > Lagna star and Moon star lord is Jupiter and Moon sub lord is Saturn > and lagna sign lord is Saturn . > >  > > But, i am the 2nd issue to my parents and 2,5,11th houses indicates > first child. > >  > > Further research will help in developping in the same > >  > > SP KHULLLAR's CIL truely helps in such cases i feel. > > K.Bhaskaran's books also very good , i am in little cifussion in the > same and mostly in a short period i will get the correct explanations. > > Sahhasra Saagara > > > > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@ wrote: > > > > adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@ > > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived > at by RP method is correct or not... > > > > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear L.Y.Rao ji, > > > > Thanks for valuable input! > > > > Regards > > Adith > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) > co.in> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Punit, > >               >   If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other > method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB > arrived at, is correct or not... > >               >   The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord > and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... > >    (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. > Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) > >               >   The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is > the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the > native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be > connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... > >               >   At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a > Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate > and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the > sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! > >               >   With kind regards, > >               >    L.Y.Rao. > >               >               >               >     GOOD LUCK ! > >             > >               >    > > > > > > > > > > > > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > @gro ups.com > > Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM > > Re: Re: female and male chart how? > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise > latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for > cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also > though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among > westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any > reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. > > > > In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary > positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already > documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification > for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ > gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear tw ji, > > > > the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the > Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a > minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! > > > > Regards > > Adith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 tw853 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB and > > Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP related > > theories. > > > > If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not > > to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? > > > > > > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " swami@ wrote: > > > > > > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > > > To:@gro ups.com> > > > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM > > > female and male chart how? > > > Dear Elders, > > > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate > > whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > > > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after > > paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or > > how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native? > > > > > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both > > have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but > > also from conception chart. > > > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar > > mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post > > conception In A & A. > > > Just to quote : > > > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A > > April 1980. > > > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady and > > as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25 > > AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts > > 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30. > > > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and > > 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP . > > > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is > > the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in > > such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which > > should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > > > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant) > > will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born, > > > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to > > arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > > > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart > > lord of sub -sub may be different. > > > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord > > because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the > > required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited > > in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is not > > required one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > > > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can be > > verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and > > planetary positions. > > > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan > > is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SAT > > and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but > > SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant > > factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken > > in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who is > > posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that > > native is a female one. > > > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri > > K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a few > > unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quoted > > above. > > > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP > > method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji. > > > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology. > > > May be who knows. > > > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub will > > also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to > > understand why this theory is untouchable? > > > With regards. > > > > > > R.C.Srivastava. . > > > swami@ > > > > > > > > > Past mails summary. > > > > > > By the way rule was > > > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear > > Suneel, > > >    If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct > it as per K.P > > method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : > >  " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in > a > > star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a > > male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female > child... " > > >              >       So far, I have found this method extremely > > accurate...           > L.Y.Rao. > > > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > > > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM > > > Dear sri Rao garu,  > > > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of the > > native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the > > chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can we > > use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? > > Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road, > > Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > > * Personally,I use the method given in  Astrosecrets & > K.P by > > Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but I > > include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes > > ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I > > use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book... > > >              >           It is well to > remember that, if > > the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same > as > > the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, is > > exact to the minute... > > > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM > > > Dear sri Rao Garu,  > > > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam's > > method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to > > to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a > > male or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the > > Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the > > native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the native > > is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct. > > > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the > > Birth Time of the chart is correct. > > > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above > > method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri > > Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Time > > is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > > > Hope now I am clear. Regards. > > > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be > > periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female > > signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m. > > approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all > > the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the > > births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > > > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male > > and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female > sign. > > > Dhanabalan > > > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but with > > a Pail of salt > > > raichur anant mumbai > > > * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > > > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to > http://in.messenger./ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Ajoy, Thanks for your appriciation and encouragement. Regards Subhash Ektare ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:27:36 AMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY--- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...@gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comWednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Punit ji, It is in file section of the forum as New Approach to BTR. Subhash Ektare Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 5:38:59 AMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... @gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Sir, Plz confirm whether TOB in this chart is correct or not( same was corrected through RP method as described by Shri Shahasaneji in his book). Regards, CA ABHISHEK SHRIVASTAV On Behalf Of Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:55 PM Cc: Mr. Punit Pandey Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham.... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM Re: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji, the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! Regards Adith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB and Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP related theories. If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote: > > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > To:<@gro ups.com> > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM > female and male chart how? > Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends, > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native? > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but also from conception chart. > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post conception In A & A. > Just to quote : > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A April 1980. > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady and as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25 AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30. > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP . > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant) will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born, > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart lord of sub -sub may be different. > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is not required one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can be verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and planetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SAT and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who is posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that native is a female one. > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a few unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quoted above. > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji. > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology. > May be who knows. > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub will also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to understand why this theory is untouchable? > With regards. > > R.C.Srivastava. . > swami > Past mails summary. > > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear Suneel, > If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child... " > So far, I have found this method extremely accurate... L.Y.Rao. > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM > Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of the native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can we use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road, Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P by Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but I include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book... > It is well to remember that, if the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same as the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, is exact to the minute... > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM > Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam's method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a male or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the native is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct. > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the Birth Time of the chart is correct. > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Time is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards. > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m. approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but with a Pail of salt > raichur anant mumbai > * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 NewApproachBTR.pdf 'in the File section' New approach to Birth Time Rectification , Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: > > Dear Ajoy ji, > > I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central > idea of the method here. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Punit ji, > > > > Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you > > rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method. > > > > Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji > > Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify > > the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected > > Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it > > correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in > > the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine. > > > > regards, > > AJOY > > > > > > --- On *Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp* wrote: > > > > Punit Pandey <punitp > > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at > > by RP method is correct or not... > > > > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM > > > > Dear Sunaparantha ji, > > > > There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that > > even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any > > verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. > > Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not > > know whether the resultant time is correct or not. > > > > Thanks & Regards, > > > > Punit Pandey > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > > <sunaparantha> wrote: > > > >> Dear Punit ji. > >> > >> I appreciate yr great works at all times. > >> The good news I heard today is " I create a new method of birth time > >> rectification (Punit's method of BTR) > >> So can we too see the method? > >> > >> Sunaparantha > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> ** Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com <punitp> > >> *To:* @gro ups.com > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM > >> *Subject:* Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at > >> by RP method is correct or not... > >> > >> Dear Lajmi ji, > >> > >> I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on > >> Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in > >> this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing > >> practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness > >> practically. > >> > >> Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time > >> rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that *Sun's* star lord > >> and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. > >> I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I > >> mean by a method of practical verification. > >> > >> Thanks & Regards, > >> > >> Punit Pandey > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) > >> co.in <lyrastro1> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Punit, > >>> If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any > >>> other method), *there* *certainly is a method to check whether the TOB > >>> arrived at,* *is correct or not...* > >>> The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord *must appear as *the > >>> sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... > >>> (*Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited > >>> by Mr.K.Subramaniam.)* > >>> * The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the > >>> native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord > >>> of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should > >>> be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ...* > >>> At least,as for me, I follow this method to check > >>> whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite > >>> accurate and correct results...also one can even *fine-tune the > >>> TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!* > >>> With kind regards, > >>> L.Y.Rao. > >>> GOOD LUCK ! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> ** Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com <punitp> > >>> *To:* @gro ups.com > >>> > >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM > >>> *Subject:* Re: Re: female and male chart how? > >>> > >>> Dear Friends, > >>> > >>> Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise > >>> latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal > >>> positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP > >>> uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it > >>> for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for > >>> verification of birth time adds confusion to that. > >>> > >>> In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary > >>> positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already > >>> documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for > >>> the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. > >>> > >>> Thanks & Regards, > >>> > >>> Punit Pandey > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ > >>> gmail.com <gkadithkasinath> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Dear tw ji, > >>>> > >>>> the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the > >>>> Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute > >>>> difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> Adith > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 <tw853 > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB > >>>>> and > >>>>> Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP related > >>>>> theories. > >>>>> > >>>>> If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not > >>>>> to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> @gro ups.com <%40>, > >>>>> " swami " <swami@> wrote: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > > >>>>> To:<@gro ups.com> > >>>>> > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM > >>>>> > female and male chart how? > >>>>> > Dear Elders, > >>>>> > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate > >>>>> whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Dear Friends, > >>>>> > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > >>>>> > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after > >>>>> paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or > >>>>> how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native? > >>>>> > > >>>>> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both > >>>>> have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but > >>>>> also from conception chart. > >>>>> > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar > >>>>> mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post > >>>>> conception In A & A. > >>>>> > Just to quote : > >>>>> > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A > >>>>> April 1980. > >>>>> > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady and > >>>>> as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25 > >>>>> AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts > >>>>> 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30. > >>>>> > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and > >>>>> 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP . > >>>>> > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is > >>>>> the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in > >>>>> such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which > >>>>> should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > >>>>> > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant) > >>>>> will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born, > >>>>> > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to > >>>>> arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > >>>>> > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart > >>>>> lord of sub -sub may be different. > >>>>> > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord > >>>>> because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the > >>>>> required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited > >>>>> in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is not > >>>>> required one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > >>>>> > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can be > >>>>> verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and > >>>>> planetary positions. > >>>>> > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan > >>>>> is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SAT > >>>>> and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but > >>>>> SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant > >>>>> factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken > >>>>> in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who is > >>>>> posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that > >>>>> native is a female one. > >>>>> > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri > >>>>> K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a few > >>>>> unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quoted > >>>>> above. > >>>>> > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP > >>>>> method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji. > >>>>> > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology. > >>>>> > May be who knows. > >>>>> > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub will > >>>>> also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to > >>>>> understand why this theory is untouchable? > >>>>> > With regards. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > R.C.Srivastava. . > >>>>> > swami@ > >>>>> > Past mails summary. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > By the way rule was > >>>>> > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear > >>>>> Suneel, > >>>>> > If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P > >>>>> method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : > >>>>> " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a > >>>>> star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a > >>>>> male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female > >>>>> child.... " > >>>>> > So far, I have found this method extremely > >>>>> accurate... L.Y.Rao. > >>>>> > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > >>>>> > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM > >>>>> > Dear sri Rao garu, > >>>>> > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of the > >>>>> native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the > >>>>> chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can we > >>>>> use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? > >>>>> Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road, > >>>>> Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > >>>>> > * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P by > >>>>> Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but I > >>>>> include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes > >>>>> ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I > >>>>> use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book... > >>>>> > It is well to remember that, if > >>>>> the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same as > >>>>> the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, is > >>>>> exact to the minute... > >>>>> > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM > >>>>> > Dear sri Rao Garu, > >>>>> > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam's > >>>>> method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to > >>>>> to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a > >>>>> male or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the > >>>>> Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the > >>>>> native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the native > >>>>> is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct. > >>>>> > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the > >>>>> Birth Time of the chart is correct. > >>>>> > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above > >>>>> method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri > >>>>> Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Time > >>>>> is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > >>>>> > Hope now I am clear.. Regards. > >>>>> > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be > >>>>> periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female > >>>>> signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m. > >>>>> approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all > >>>>> the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the > >>>>> births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > >>>>> > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > >>>>> > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male > >>>>> and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > >>>>> > >>>>> > Dhanabalan > >>>>> > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but with > >>>>> a Pail of salt > >>>>> > raichur anant mumbai > >>>>> > * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Hasmukhrai J Mehta > >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab.<http://in.rd./tagline_dbid_5/*http://in.promos./address> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.<http://in.rd./tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger./invi\ te/> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Punitji, The main problem in finding out or fixing correct method of BTR is that , who will confirm that the result come after rectification is true i mean to say if TOB is not taken perfectly at it's true delivery. We will only say on assumtion if events of case is matching with kundli made by corrected time. What I feel personly that for having proved method of BTR ,we should have at least some say 25 to 50 cases with perfect birth time taken at hospital by nurse or doctor with perfectly mached time watch, considering all this cases with all available method , check wich method gives the answer(which is alreadyknown or noted at the time of birth) . This alltogether seems difficult but just an idea i am keeping & posting to forum. Here having cases of perfect birth time can be obtain from our contact of any maternity home asking for the same for case study. I hope you understand what I all mean to say in above , My english is not so perfect to express what I meant to say in HINDI.My english is just limited to only CIVIL Engineering. Thanks & Regards, Neeraj --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Punit Pandey <punitp wrote: Punit Pandey <punitpRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 1:38 PM Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... @gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions.. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed... And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Punit ji Please find the content from the book copied below. Cast the chart for the time and place of judgment. Note down the RP Ascendant and RP Moon correct up to sub-sub level. Also note down whom Rahu / Ketu represent. Calculate the position of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Then with the help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Note that here we are using RP Ascendant (fast moving object) to correct the longitude of Natal Moon (comparatively slow moving object). Thus strongest Ruling Planets – Ascendant sign lord and Ascendant star lord- are used in correcting the birth time.Corresponding to this corrected Natal moon position find out the Natal Ascendant(s). Now, check and correct the Natal Ascendant(s) with the RP moon. Here we are using pair of next powerful Ruling Planets-Moon sign lord and the star lord-to fine tune corrected Natal Ascendant(s). The time when this ascendant rises is found to be most accurate astrological birth time. regards, Ajoy - Punit Pandey Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:08 PM Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp > wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp >Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Tin Win, I have explained the rationale many a time...am re-sending it for your benefit...kindly revert in case you do not agree with this theory at all...In addition..I would,at the risk of repitition,inform as follows... In the foreword to Universal Table of Houses,by M/s S Balasunderam & A.R.Raichur, kindly read the "Preface" as well as the " Introduction"...written by the same authors...(3/12/1985). ZOLAR, in his work, "It's all in the Stars" avers that..."A newborn begins to exist as a separate being independent of it's mother, ONLY after the umbilical chord is severed...! Until then,the body is polarisedby the soul-force of it's parent and the planets alone can influence it by reflex action from the mother's organism..." Perhaps this needs to be remembered when examining the K.P. methods of Birth Time Rectification...? ! The true Test of K.P., is the position of the M.C.point...and comparing the M.C.Points of twins and explaining the variations in their lives is possible only by using K.P. ! That is what set our revered Guruji's mind to develop K.P. into an almost complete science... It is true that the great Indian Nadi work "The Satya Samhita", avers that although the Hindus regard the time of conception,the appearance of the head,and the complete birth of the child...as the TOB of the child, during Kali Yuga,the time of severence of the child,or complete birth of the child,is the correct time of Birth. I hope that the above inluding the letter to Punit et al,will go to show that, presently no better system than the combination of the 2 methods as practised by me, as mentioned,have been propounded or come to light...so far... With the very best wishes, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! ----- Forwarded Message ----Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 ; Mr.Punit Pandey <punitpCc: Mr.Ajoy Chomaal <ajoy_matchlessWednesday, 21 January, 2009 9:51:37 PMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dears Punit,Ajoy,Sunaparantha, In the chapter "Advanced Stellar Astrology" in the excellent book, Astrosecrets & Krishnamurthi Padhdhati, Part II, very simple methods to check whether a given Birth Chart is correctly cast or not...along with the rationale,are given : I shall endeavour to outline these briefly... The Sun,Jupiter and Venus,alone, are the three planets mainly responsible for human births... i) Sun is the Athma Karaka-chief sigificator of the soul... ii) Jupiter is Putrakaraka-chief significator for childbirth... iii)Venus isKamakaraka-chief significator for sexual pleasure... It has been observed by the late M.P.Shanmugham (the author of the book mentioned above),that Sun or Jupiter or Venus, are always found as the starlord or sublord of the IXth cusp...(along with an example,to enable one to use this rule/method correctly... Thus emerges the method, that if the IXth sublord is found to be under the said circumstances(sic), the horoscope cast is correct...to the minute... ! In the context of Ajoy's feeling that a lot has been said...etc., I suggest we follow the above method to verify the correctness of a Birth Chart...and let the group know their findings...as for me I have found it very useful... Correct Birth Time theory is ..." the starlord of Lagna-sub lord,should indicate clearly the Moon sign or Birth-star of the native...and so on... To be absolutely sure,one should verify the correctness of the given TOB,using atleast 2 or 3 methods given in K.P. As per K.P.,the theory that the Moon's star-lord and sub-lord should appear as the Ascendant's sublord and sub-sub lord respectively is based on theory that roughly after 9 months after the epoch(fertilisation),because,the Moon transits in that position,when birth takes place...(this is the same position where the Ascendant was at the time of epoch)...This method has been observed to be correct in around 75 % cases... Revered Guruji maitained that as per the Karma Theory the Ruling Planets at the time of Judgement,will be the same,at the "sprouting" of the seed(fertilisation,9 months before,but translocated). If we combine the above two,we shall be reaching the 100% correct level,which our revered Guruji wanted us to arrive at... ! Yet another method,at the practical level(sic),it is avered that the sub has to be true in all aspects upto the sub-sub level...For this,the Meridian Colei method is recommended,i.e., the Xth cusp... Comparatively, the first two methods are recommended for accuracy... So far,I have been following these methods.. I invite your critique/comments on the above...and I shall be grateful to any one if he can inform me a better and more accurate method of Birth Time Verification... With regards and best wishes, L.Y.Rao. Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009 4:16:09 PMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.comWednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Neeraj, I hope you will kindly appreciate the difficulty to note the correct TOB by the obstetrician as, according to K.P. Principles,one has to note the exact time of the first cry...or more correctly the exact time of the severing of the umbilical chord( as recommended by the Nadi work Satya Samhita,for Kaliyuga... That is the reason Birth Time Verification/Rectification is recommended before any Birth Chart or horoscope is analysed...and K.P. has developed a mehod to arrive at the correct TOB... L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Neeraj Chowksey <chowkseyneeraj Sent: Thursday, 22 January, 2009 11:35:06 AMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Punitji, The main problem in finding out or fixing correct method of BTR is that , who will confirm that the result come after rectification is true i mean to say if TOB is not taken perfectly at it's true delivery. We will only say on assumtion if events of case is matching with kundli made by corrected time. What I feel personly that for having proved method of BTR ,we should have at least some say 25 to 50 cases with perfect birth time taken at hospital by nurse or doctor with perfectly mached time watch, considering all this cases with all available method , check wich method gives the answer(which is alreadyknown or noted at the time of birth) . This alltogether seems difficult but just an idea i am keeping & posting to forum. Here having cases of perfect birth time can be obtain from our contact of any maternity home asking for the same for case study. I hope you understand what I all mean to say in above , My english is not so perfect to express what I meant to say in HINDI.My english is just limited to only CIVIL Engineering. Thanks & Regards, Neeraj --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...@gro ups.comWednesday, January 21, 2009, 1:38 PM Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... @gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions.. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed... And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Ajoy, The method given below is exacly the same as given by Mr. Khullar. Infact, Mr. Khullar gives more than this by further correcting various cusps by matching the stars of the relatives (Father, Mother etc) with the sub-sub of relevant cusps. This is for info only. Vijay Kumar - ajoy s. chomaal Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:15 PM Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Punit ji Please find the content from the book copied below. Cast the chart for the time and place of judgment. Note down the RP Ascendant and RP Moon correct up to sub-sub level. Also note down whom Rahu / Ketu represent. Calculate the position of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Then with the help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Note that here we are using RP Ascendant (fast moving object) to correct the longitude of Natal Moon (comparatively slow moving object). Thus strongest Ruling Planets – Ascendant sign lord and Ascendant star lord- are used in correcting the birth time.Corresponding to this corrected Natal moon position find out the Natal Ascendant(s). Now, check and correct the Natal Ascendant(s) with the RP moon. Here we are using pair of next powerful Ruling Planets-Moon sign lord and the star lord-to fine tune corrected Natal Ascendant(s). The time when this ascendant rises is found to be most accurate astrological birth time. regards, Ajoy - Punit Pandey Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:08 PM Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp > wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp >Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Neeraj Chowksey <chowkseyneeraj wrote: Neeraj Chowksey <chowkseyneerajRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not..."Yogesh Rao Lajmi" <lyrastro1Thursday, January 22, 2009, 7:47 AM Dear Lajmi Sir, Thanks for the mail , I fully agree with you. Thanks for your last mail addressed to Punitji, & others,stating about the role & connection of Sun, Jupiter,Ven with 9th cusp for BTR. all information given in mail will be help full in case study. Thanks & Regards, Neeraj --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote: Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Cc: "Neeraj Chowksey" <chowkseyneerajThursday, January 22, 2009, 7:13 AM Dear Neeraj, I hope you will kindly appreciate the difficulty to note the correct TOB by the obstetrician as, according to K.P. Principles,one has to note the exact time of the first cry...or more correctly the exact time of the severing of the umbilical chord( as recommended by the Nadi work Satya Samhita,for Kaliyuga... That is the reason Birth Time Verification/Rectification is recommended before any Birth Chart or horoscope is analysed...and K.P. has developed a mehod to arrive at the correct TOB... L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Neeraj Chowksey <chowkseyneeraj Sent: Thursday, 22 January, 2009 11:35:06 AMRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Punitji, The main problem in finding out or fixing correct method of BTR is that , who will confirm that the result come after rectification is true i mean to say if TOB is not taken perfectly at it's true delivery. We will only say on assumtion if events of case is matching with kundli made by corrected time. What I feel personly that for having proved method of BTR ,we should have at least some say 25 to 50 cases with perfect birth time taken at hospital by nurse or doctor with perfectly mached time watch, considering all this cases with all available method , check wich method gives the answer(which is alreadyknown or noted at the time of birth) . This alltogether seems difficult but just an idea i am keeping & posting to forum. Here having cases of perfect birth time can be obtain from our contact of any maternity home asking for the same for case study. I hope you understand what I all mean to say in above , My english is not so perfect to express what I meant to say in HINDI.My english is just limited to only CIVIL Engineering. Thanks & Regards, Neeraj --- On Wed, 1/21/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...@gro ups.comWednesday, January 21, 2009, 1:38 PM Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... @gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . . com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) . . com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions... Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.... And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Bhaskar Instead of New , i would like to say little addition or little improvement along with the same techniques. I made rectification of Birth time of KP follower Mr.Pundarish in Mysore and at the the time BTR Moon reflects my mind and I concluded that aspects of Mars on Venus and I fixed his Birth time will be 3 hrs 6 mts 53 seconds. Mr.Pundareesh replyed : "Your calculation is 100% correct , my birth time is 3 hrs 7 minits" In case of Mikhail Gorbachev too i got succeed in fixing the exact Birth time and Gorbachevs Mars dasha started on 18th August 1991 on the same day he was house arrested and he lost the position as Mars signifies 12th strongly. Regards Sahhasra Saagara--- On Wed, 21/1/09, Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 10:07 PM Dear Sagarji,I said That " could have also made us learn some new techniques ".Here I mean explicitly l that I am not interested in learning thistechnique. I am quite satisfied with Original KP. without any furthercorruptions.best wishes,Bhaskar.@gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>wrote:>>> Dear Sagar ji,>> // 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th> cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of> native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way> or the other will have link.> 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-subcuspal> sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha> periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. // The> above is too far fetched and unpalatable. This cannot be done> successfully, and no one can prove that the resultant conclusion would> be the right one arrived at. From the above, mostly all the planets (> And they number only 9 ) will come in picture, and any body on> postmartem can connect the findings to all these planets and say that> he has got the right answer or the right time of Birth. A few examples> and illustrations given with the above , could have confirmed that you> are yourself satisfied with the above, and could have also made uslearn> some new techniques. regards/Bhaskar.>> @gro ups.com, Sagar S ssagar86@ wrote:> >> > Hi Friends> > 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th> cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of> native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way> or the other will have link.> > 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub> cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana anddeha> periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level.> > Â> > My lagna lord is Saturn.star lord is jupiter and sub lord is Saturn> and Moon at Venus sign , Jupiter star and Saturn sub .> > Â> > Lagna star and Moon star lord is Jupiter and Moon sub lord is Saturn> and lagna sign lord is Saturn .> > Â> > But, i am the 2nd issue to my parents and 2,5,11th houses indicates> first child.> > Â> > Further research will help in developping in the same> > Â> > SP KHULLLAR's CIL truely helps in such cases i feel.> > K.Bhaskaran' s books also very good , i am in little cifussion in the> same and mostly in a short period i will get the correct explanations.> > Sahhasra Saagara> >> > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@ wrote:> >> > adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@> > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOBarrived> at by RP method is correct or not...> > @gro ups.com> > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 1:49 PM> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear L.Y.Rao ji,> >> > Thanks for valuable input!> >> > Regards> > Adith> >> >> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) > co.in> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Punit,> >             ÂÂ>   If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other> method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB> arrived at, is correct or not...> >             ÂÂ>   The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as thesub-lord> and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct...> >    (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P.> Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam. )> >             ÂÂ>   The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is> the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord ofthe> native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be> connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ...> >             ÂÂ>   At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a> Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate> and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the> sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!> >             ÂÂ>   With kind regards,> >             ÂÂ>    L.Y.Rao.> >             ÂÂ>              Â>              Â>     GOOD LUCK !> >            Â> >             ÂÂ>   Â> >> >> >> >> >> > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> > @gro ups.com> > Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM> > Re: Re: female and male chart how?> >> >> >> > Dear Friends,> >> > Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise> latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for> cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also> though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among> westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any> reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that.> >> > In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary> positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already> documented. Having said that, still there is no method forverification> for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR.> >> > Thanks & Regards,> >> > Punit Pandey> >> >> >> > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k<gkadithkasinath@> gmail.com> wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear tw ji,> >> > the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the> Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a> minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult torectify!> >> > Regards> > Adith> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 tw853 > wrote:> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KBand> > Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KPrelated> > theories.> >> > If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, whynot> > to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy?> >> >> >> >> > @gro ups.com, "swami" swami@ wrote:> > >> > > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >> > To:@ gro ups.com>> > > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> > > female and male chart how?> > > Dear Elders,Â> > > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate> > whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain..suniel> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Friends,> > > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread;> > > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after> > paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or> > how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > >> > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both> > have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but> > also from conception chart.> > > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar> > mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post> > conception In A & A.> > > Just to quote :> > > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A> > April 1980.> > > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the ladyand> > as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and2-25> > AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts> > 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> > > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and> > 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> > > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is> > the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in> > such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which> > should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> > > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna(Ascendant)> > will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> > > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to> > arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> > > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart> > lord of sub -sub may be different.> > > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord> > because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the> > required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited> > in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which isnot> > required one .This we should carefully bear in mind)> > > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not canbe> > verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and> > planetary positions.> > > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan> > is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a PlanetSAT> > and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but> > SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant> > factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken> > in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon whois> > posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that> > native is a female one.> > > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri> > K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring afew> > unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in examplequoted> > above.> > > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP> > method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> > > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KPAstrology.> > > May be who knows.> > > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-subwill> > also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to> > understand why this theory is untouchable?> > > With regards.> > >> > > R.C.Srivastava. .> > > swami@> >> >> >> > > Past mails summary.> > >> > > By the way rule was> > > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear> > Suneel,> > >    If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct> it as per K.P> > method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar:> >  "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if positedin> a> > star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is ofa> > male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female> child..."> > >             Â>       So far, I have found this methodextremely> > accurate...          Â> L.Y.Rao.> > > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: > > > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> > > Dear sri Rao garu, Â> > > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender ofthe> > native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the> > chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, canwe> > use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ?> > Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,> > Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > * Personally,I use the method given in  Astrosecrets & > K.P by> > Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but I> > include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but,sometimes> > ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that caseI> > use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> > >             Â>           It is well to> remember that, if> > the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same> as> > the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at,is> > exact to the minute...> > > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> > > Dear sri Rao Garu, Â> > > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referredShanmugam's> > method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How to> > to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a> > male or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the> > Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the> > native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign thenative> > is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> > > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the> > Birth Time of the chart is correct.> > > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above> > method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., ifsri> > Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider BirthTime> > is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR.Â> > > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> > > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be> > periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female> > signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.> > approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all> > the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that allthe> > births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide?> > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta.> > > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male> > and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female> sign.> > > DhanabalanÂ> > > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", butwith> > a Pail of salt> > > raichur anant mumbai> > > * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory.> > >> > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to> http://in.messenger ./> >> Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Friends Now a days BTR becomes very confussion as now we have to fix Lagna cusple sub-sub-sub lord for the very accurate time of Birth. Up to Lagna cusple sub lord will be easy but up to sub-sub and sub-sub-sub lord it is very difficult i feel BTR done by me till date based on KP original ayanamsha but now a days softwares gives different lagna cusple sub lords/sub-sub lords in difference softwares. Sahhasra Saagara--- On Thu, 22/1/09, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless wrote: ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchlessRe: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Date: Thursday, 22 January, 2009, 12:15 PM Dear Punit ji Please find the content from the book copied below. Cast the chart for the time and place of judgment. Note down the RP Ascendant and RP Moon correct up to sub-sub level. Also note down whom Rahu / Ketu represent. Calculate the position of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Then with the help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Note that here we are using RP Ascendant (fast moving object) to correct the longitude of Natal Moon (comparatively slow moving object). Thus strongest Ruling Planets – Ascendant sign lord and Ascendant star lord- are used in correcting the birth time.Corresponding to this corrected Natal moon position find out the Natal Ascendant(s) . Now, check and correct the Natal Ascendant(s) with the RP moon. Here we are using pair of next powerful Ruling Planets-Moon sign lord and the star lord-to fine tune corrected Natal Ascendant(s) . The time when this ascendant rises is found to be most accurate astrological birth time. regards, Ajoy - Punit Pandey @gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:08 PM Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Ajoy ji,I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: Dear Punit ji,Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method.Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine.regards,AJOY --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... @gro ups.comWednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM Dear Sunaparantha ji,There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: Dear Punit ji.I appreciate yr great works at all times.The good news I heard today is "I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR)So can we too see the method?Sunaparantha Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: Dear Punit, If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! With kind regards, L.Y.Rao. GOOD LUCK ! Punit Pandey <punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>@gro ups.com Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how? Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? @gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.> Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami > Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child...."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K..P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear.. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Sagar ji, If You can fix the correct ascendant with the study and observations of the influence of aspects, then I would say thats great and wonderful, and I submite that I cannot even dream of doing so. But all the same when people talk of sub Lords, and SubSubLords and SubSubSubLords, then I wonder what difference could these next 2 levels make to the prediction, apart from the predictions given through the Sub Lord. For instance, if I wonder what difference would be there in the predictions for our Quiz No. 1 Mer: signifies 2 in sub of ven (signifies 9). ven also sub lord of 2 & 6Ket: signifies 2 & 8 in the sub of jup (signifies 8 & 9)Moon: signifies 8 & 12 in the sub of ven ( signifies 9) She got a surgical treatment done ( this was the correct analysis done by Mr. Ajay in the Quiz using above Sub lords.) Can You or anyone else advocating subsequent levels of sublords, explain me, what is the difference going to be in the above prediction if we add the undermentioned to the above equations given by Shri Ajoy ? - SubSubLord to Mercury, SubSubLord to Ketu, SubSubLord to Moon, in the above equations ? AND, Also SubSubSub Lords to Mercury, Ketu and the Moons in the above equations ? regards, Bhaskar. , Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar> Instead of New , i would like to say little addition or little improvement along with the same techniques.> I made rectification of Birth time of KP follower Mr.Pundarish in Mysore and at the the time BTR Moon reflects my mind and I concluded that aspects of Mars on Venus and I fixed his Birth time will be 3 hrs 6 mts 53 seconds.> Mr.Pundareesh replyed : "Your calculation is 100% correct , my birth time is 3 hrs 7 minits"> In case of Mikhail Gorbachev too i got succeed in fixing the exact Birth time and Gorbachevs Mars dasha started on 18th August 1991 on the same day he was house arrested and he lost the position as Mars signifies 12th strongly.> Regards> Sahhasra Saagara> > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish wrote:> > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...> > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 10:07 PM> > > > > > > > Dear Sagarji,> > I said That " could have also made us learn some new techniques ".> > Here I mean explicitly l that I am not interested in learning this> technique. I am quite satisfied with Original KP. without any further> corruptions.> > best wishes,> > Bhaskar.> > @gro ups.com, "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish@ ...>> wrote:> >> >> > Dear Sagar ji,> >> > // 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th> > cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of> > native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way> > or the other will have link.> > 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub> cuspal> > sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and deha> > periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level. // The> > above is too far fetched and unpalatable. This cannot be done> > successfully, and no one can prove that the resultant conclusion would> > be the right one arrived at. From the above, mostly all the planets (> > And they number only 9 ) will come in picture, and any body on> > postmartem can connect the findings to all these planets and say that> > he has got the right answer or the right time of Birth. A few examples> > and illustrations given with the above , could have confirmed that you> > are yourself satisfied with the above, and could have also made us> learn> > some new techniques. regards/Bhaskar.> >> > @gro ups.com, Sagar S ssagar86@ wrote:> > >> > > Hi Friends> > > 1. BTR can be check by the dasha bhukti antara periods for the 9th> > cusp which should have link of 2,5,11 th houses that is the birth of> > native and its lagna sign lord,star lord and sub/sub-sub lords one way> > or the other will have link.> > > 2. Yes, if we go one/two steps further that is sp to sub-sub-sub> > cuspal sub-sub-sub level and dasha bhukti antara sookshma prana and> deha> > periods as well as planets positions of sub-sub-sub level.> > > Â> > > My lagna lord is Saturn.star lord is jupiter and sub lord is Saturn> > and Moon at Venus sign , Jupiter star and Saturn sub .> > > Â> > > Lagna star and Moon star lord is Jupiter and Moon sub lord is Saturn> > and lagna sign lord is Saturn .> > > Â> > > But, i am the 2nd issue to my parents and 2,5,11th houses indicates> > first child.> > > Â> > > Further research will help in developping in the same> > > Â> > > SP KHULLLAR's CIL truely helps in such cases i feel.> > > K.Bhaskaran' s books also very good , i am in little cifussion in the> > same and mostly in a short period i will get the correct explanations.> > > Sahhasra Saagara> > >> > > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@ wrote:> > >> > > adith kasinath.g.k gkadithkasinath@> > > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB> arrived> > at by RP method is correct or not...> > > @gro ups.com> > > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 1:49 PM> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear L.Y.Rao ji,> > >> > > Thanks for valuable input!> > >> > > Regards> > > Adith> > >> > >> > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) > > co.in> wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Punit,> > >             Â> Â> >   If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other> > method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB> > arrived at, is correct or not...> > >             Â> Â> >   The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the> sub-lord> > and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct...> > >    (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P.> > Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam. )> > >             Â> Â> >   The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is> > the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of> the> > native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be> > connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ...> > >             Â> Â> >   At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a> > Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate> > and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the> > sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!> > >             Â> Â> >   With kind regards,> > >             Â> Â> >    L.Y.Rao.> > >             Â> Â> >              Â> >              Â> >     GOOD LUCK !> > >            Â> > >             Â> Â> >   Â> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com>> > > @gro ups.com> > > Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM> > > Re: Re: female and male chart how?> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear Friends,> > >> > > Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise> > latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for> > cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also> > though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among> > westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any> > reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that.> > >> > > In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary> > positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already> > documented. Having said that, still there is no method for> verification> > for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR.> > >> > > Thanks & Regards,> > >> > > Punit Pandey> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k> <gkadithkasinath@> > gmail.com> wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dear tw ji,> > >> > > the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the> > Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a> > minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to> rectify!> > >> > > Regards> > > Adith> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 tw853 > wrote:> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB> and> > > Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP> related> > > theories.> > >> > > If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why> not> > > to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy?> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > @gro ups.com, "swami" swami@ wrote:> > > >> > > > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >> > > To:@ gro ups.com>> > > > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> > > > female and male chart how?> > > > Dear Elders,Â> > > > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate> > > whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain..> suniel> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Friends,> > > > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread;> > > > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after> > > paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or> > > how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > > >> > > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both> > > have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but> > > also from conception chart.> > > > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar> > > mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post> > > conception In A & A.> > > > Just to quote :> > > > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A> > > April 1980.> > > > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady> and> > > as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and> 2-25> > > AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts> > > 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> > > > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and> > > 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> > > > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is> > > the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in> > > such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which> > > should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> > > > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna> (Ascendant)> > > will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> > > > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to> > > arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> > > > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart> > > lord of sub -sub may be different.> > > > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord> > > because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the> > > required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited> > > in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is> not> > > required one .This we should carefully bear in mind)> > > > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can> be> > > verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and> > > planetary positions.> > > > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan> > > is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet> SAT> > > and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but> > > SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant> > > factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken> > > in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who> is> > > posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that> > > native is a female one.> > > > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri> > > K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a> few> > > unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example> quoted> > > above.> > > > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP> > > method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> > > > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP> Astrology.> > > > May be who knows.> > > > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub> will> > > also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to> > > understand why this theory is untouchable?> > > > With regards.> > > >> > > > R.C.Srivastava. .> > > > swami@> > >> > >> > >> > > > Past mails summary.> > > >> > > > By the way rule was> > > > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear> > > Suneel,> > > >    If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct> > it as per K.P> > > method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar> :> > >  "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited> in> > a> > > star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of> a> > > male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female> > child..."> > > >             Â> >       So far, I have found this method> extremely> > > accurate...          Â> > L.Y.Rao.> > > > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro> ups.com> > > > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> > > > Dear sri Rao garu, Â> > > > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of> the> > > native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the> > > chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can> we> > > use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ?> > > Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,> > > Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> > > > * Personally,I use the method given in  Astrosecrets & > > K.P by> > > Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but I> > > include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but,> sometimes> > > ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case> I> > > use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...> > > >             Â> >           It is well to> > remember that, if> > > the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same> > as> > > the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at,> is> > > exact to the minute...> > > > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> > > > Dear sri Rao Garu, Â> > > > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred> Shanmugam's> > > method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How to> > > to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a> > > male or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the> > > Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the> > > native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the> native> > > is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> > > > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the> > > Birth Time of the chart is correct.> > > > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above> > > method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if> sri> > > Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth> Time> > > is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR.Â> > > > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> > > > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be> > > periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female> > > signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.> > > approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all> > > the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all> the> > > births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide?> > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta.> > > > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male> > > and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female> > sign.> > > > DhanabalanÂ> > > > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but> with> > > a Pail of salt> > > > raichur anant mumbai> > > > * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory.> > > >> > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Check out the all-new Messenger 9.0! Go to> > http://in.messenger ./> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Dear Sagarji, // Up to Lagna cusple sub lord will be easy // If You find that easy, then what else more do You require ? People like me are still struggling even with fixing the Cuspal SubLord many a times, if I try to match the parameters that Shri Yogeshji has given us for actual real birth time, then on occasions I go even 30 minutes hither and thither of the recorded birth time, which is just not possible in most of the cases. What much difference it will make to the Ascendant figures and predictions that go alongwith, if you go to the SubSub, SubSubSub, and SubSubSubSub levels ? Dear friend a good KP astrologer should be able to predict even with just the Cuspal SubLord level maximum, and those who go further than that , i suppose are trying to take out skin from the hair ( Baal ki khaal nikalna). regards, Bhaskar. , Sagar S <ssagar86 wrote: > > Dear Friends > Now a days BTR becomes very confussion as now we have to fix Lagna cusple sub-sub-sub lord for the very accurate time of Birth. > Up to Lagna cusple sub lord will be easy but up to sub-sub and sub-sub-sub lord it is very difficult i feel > BTR done by me till date based on KP original ayanamsha but now a days softwares gives different lagna cusple sub lords/sub-sub lords in difference softwares. >  > Sahhasra Saagara > > --- On Thu, 22/1/09, ajoy s. chomaal ajoy_matchless wrote: > > ajoy s. chomaal ajoy_matchless > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... > > Thursday, 22 January, 2009, 12:15 PM > > Dear Punit ji > Please find the content from the book copied below. > Cast the chart for the time and place of judgment. Note down the RP Ascendant and RP Moon correct up to sub-sub level. Also note down whom Rahu / Ketu represent. > Calculate the position of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Then with the help of RP Ascendant and given time of birth correct the longitude of Natal Moon up to sub-sub level. Note that here we are using RP Ascendant (fast moving object) to correct the longitude of Natal Moon (comparatively slow moving object). Thus strongest Ruling Planets †" Ascendant sign lord and Ascendant star lord- are used in correcting the birth time.Corresponding to this corrected Natal moon position find out the Natal Ascendant(s) . > Now, check and correct the Natal Ascendant(s) with the RP moon. Here we are using pair of next powerful Ruling Planets-Moon sign lord and the star lord-to fine tune corrected Natal Ascendant(s) . The time when this ascendant rises is found to be most accurate astrological birth time. > regards, > Ajoy > > - > Punit Pandey > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:08 PM > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... > > > > Dear Ajoy ji, > > I am not aware of the Subhash ji's method. Can you please share the central idea of the method here. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:57 PM, ajoy s. chomaal <ajoy_matchless@ .co. in> wrote: > > > > > Dear Punit ji, > > Too much has been said and discussed too many times on this subject. As you rightly said, we cannot determine the correctness of any method. > > Having said this and also keeping in mind the fact that our Late Guruji Prof. K.S. Krishnamurti had elaborately considered ruling Planets to rectify the birth time, i have been using the method practiced by respected Mr.Subhash Ektare ji. His method is quiet convincing and i have found it correct in almost all of my cases requiring BTR. The same can be found in the April 2008 issue of Astrovision magazine. > > regards, > AJOY > > > > --- On Wed, 21/1/09, Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... > > @gro ups.com > Wednesday, 21 January, 2009, 4:16 PM > > > > > > Dear Sunaparantha ji, > > There is nothing like Punit's BTR method. I was kidding to communicate that even if I create one, there is no way to disprove it. Without any verification method, we can not determine the correctness of any method. Especially KP has no rules related to sub-sub, so astrologically we can not know whether the resultant time is correct or not. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Sunaparantha Kalyan <sunaparantha@ > wrote: > > > Dear Punit ji. > > I appreciate yr great works at all times. > The good news I heard today is " I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) > So can we too see the method? > > Sunaparantha > > Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > @gro ups.com > > > > Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:54:48 PM > Re: K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not... > Dear Lajmi ji, > > I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically. > > Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi lyrastro1 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Punit, >                 If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not... >                 The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant... if the Ascendant is correct... >    (Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.) >                 The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu.. .says the late Mr.Shanmugham. ... >                 At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...! >                 With kind regards, >                  L.Y.Rao. >                                               GOOD LUCK ! >             >                  Punit Pandey punitp (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > @gro ups.com > > > > Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PM > Re: Re: female and male chart how? > > Dear Friends, > > Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me.. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. > > In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented.. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. > > Thanks & Regards, > > Punit Pandey > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote: Dear tw ji, > > the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! > > Regards > Adith On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 tw853 > wrote: Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB and > Khullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP related > theories. > > If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not > to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy? > > > > > @gro ups.com, " swami " swami@ wrote: > > > > kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ > > To:@gro ups.com> > > Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM > > female and male chart how? > > Dear Elders, > > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminate > whether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question after > paraphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study or > how to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native? > > > > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology both > have principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but > also from conception chart. > > In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Kar > mentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also post > conception In A & A. > > Just to quote : > > Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A > April 1980. > > # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady and > as per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25 > AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts > 24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30. > > I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and > 22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP . > > At the end of consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub is > the strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this in > such a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign which > should be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ... > > Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant) > will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born, > > It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub to > arrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct. > > In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chart > lord of sub -sub may be different. > > (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lord > because he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the > required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be posited > in the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is not > required one .This we should carefully bear in mind) > > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can be > verified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp and > planetary positions. > > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan > is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SAT > and SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi but > SAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinant > factor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken > in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who is > posited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say that > native is a female one. > > I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri > K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a few > unknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quoted > above. > > Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KP > method < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji. > > I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology. > > May be who knows. > > Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub will > also be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want to > understand why this theory is untouchable? > > With regards. > > > > R.C.Srivastava. . > > swami@ > > > > > Past mails summary. > > > > By the way rule was > > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM Dear > Suneel, > >    If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P > method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : >  " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in a > star, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of a > male child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child.... " > >                    So far, I have found this method extremely > accurate...           L.Y.Rao. > > * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com > > Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM > > Dear sri Rao garu,  > > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of the > native of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the > chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can we > use this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? > Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road, > Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591. > > * Personally,I use the method given in  Astrosecrets & K..P by > Mr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II....but I > include the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes > ,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I > use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book... > >                        It is well to remember that, if > the Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same as > the st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, is > exact to the minute... > > * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM > > Dear sri Rao Garu,  > > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam's > method nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to > to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of a > male or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If the > Ascendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the > native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the native > is female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct. > > You said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when the > Birth Time of the chart is correct. > > I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the above > method works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri > Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Time > is correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > > Hope now I am clear.. Regards. > > * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be > periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or female > signs for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m. > approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, all > the planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the > births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are male > and the next fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > > Dhanabalan > > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but with > a Pail of salt > > raichur anant mumbai > > * Agreed.. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta > > > Get perfect Email ID for your Resume. Get before others grab. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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