K.P. method to check whether TOB arrived at by RP method is correct or not...

January 21, 2009

Dear Punit,

If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not...

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct...

(Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.)

The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham....

At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!

With kind regards,

L.Y.Rao.

GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp Sent: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how?

Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that. In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR. Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote:

Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify! RegardsAdith

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why notto go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy?

@gro ups.com, "swami" <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders, > One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread; > Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study

orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart butalso from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & AApril 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of

consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in therequired Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we

should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant laganis to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be takenin to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to ShriK.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.>

Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.> > R.C.Srivastava. .> swami

> Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.Pmethod). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : "If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child..."> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that thechart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case Iuse the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...>

It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query "How toto acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? ". You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign thenative of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You

said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sriGondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may beperiods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2Â¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all thebirths during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next

fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not "a pinch", but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory. > > Hasmukhrai J Mehta>

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January 21, 2009

Dear L.Y.Rao ji,Thanks for valuable input!RegardsAdithOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote:

Dear Punit,

If the TOB arrived at by using the RP method,(or any other method), there certainly is a method to check whether the TOB arrived at, is correct or not...

The Moon's star-lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sublord of the Ascendant...if the Ascendant is correct...

(Ref: K.P. & Astrology,Part II. by late Shri M.P. Shanmugham & Edited by Mr.K.Subramaniam.)

The Lagna-sub should tell the birth-star of the native...is the rule...if Rahu/Kethu happen to be the agent of the star-lord of the native, then,the Lagna-sublord in whose star it is,that star should be connected to Rahu/Kethu...says the late Mr.Shanmugham....

At least,as for me, I follow this method to check whether a Chart cast is correct or not...so far,I've been getting quite accurate and correct results...also one can even fine-tune the TOB...upto the sub-sub level or,in other words to the second...!

With kind regards,

L.Y.Rao.

GOOD LUCK !

Punit Pandey <punitp

Tuesday, 20 January, 2009 11:28:26 PMRe: Re: female and male chart how?

Dear Friends, Seeing differences in calculations, ayanamsa, and not using precise latitude, geocentric vs. geographic latitude etc., taking sub-sub for cuspal positions in predictions seems a little bit risky to me. Also though KP uses Placidus house system, there is controversy among westerns for using it for higher latitudes. Also unavailability of any reliable method for verification of birth time adds confusion to that.

In my opinion, though, it is OK to take sub-sub for the planetary positions. Sub-sub is also OK for BTR, because the process is already documented. Having said that, still there is no method for verification for the sub-sub that comes out using RP based BTR.

Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:05 PM, adith kasinath.g.k <gkadithkasinath@ gmail.com> wrote:

Dear tw ji,the sub sub theory may be useful only in the horary but not in the Natal, as there are chances of difference in the sub sub even for a minute difference in the birth time which is very difficult to rectify!

RegardsAdith

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:36 PM, tw853 <tw853 > wrote:

Dr. Kar calls his sub sub theory as Kar Padhdhati, Baskaran as KB andKhullar KCIL without mixing up with KP for their own way of KP relatedtheories.If the sub sub is supposed to give better accurate prediction, why not

to go further to the sub sub sub for the best accuracy?

@gro ups.com, " swami " <swami wrote:>> kondapaneni suneel <ksuneel_dhamma@ >

To:<@gro ups.com>> Wednesday, 7 January, 2009 10:08:46 AM> female and male chart how?> Dear Elders,

> One date of birth is given or chart is given how to discriminatewhether given is that of male or female chart? Please explain.. suniel > > > > Dear Friends,> In continuation to discussion so far on this thread;

> Sometimes we miss the point. To my understanding Question afterparaphrasing was How to find sex of native from chart under study

orhow to verify chart erected on birth data confirms sex of Native?> > If this inference is correct Sub theory and Vedic astrology bothhave principles to determine sex not only from the birth chart but

also from conception chart.> In KP Literature I have come across writing by Pdt K.R.Karmentioning rules about how to judge Sex of native. And also postconception In A & A.> Just to quote :> Ref Dedicated To Learners- Beginners Events that came true. In A & A

April 1980.> # A Krishna Murti follower furnished the birth data of the lady andas per him, her birth might have taken place between 2-15 AM and 2-25AM on 19 th July 1952 which He corrected and arrived at 2 hrs 25 Mts

24 sec AM IST for 87E30 and 22N30.> I took the matter for judgment on 9-6-79 at 8-45 P.M. at 85E20 and22N06....He continues to examine as per KP guide lines... using RP .> At the end of

consideration of RP planets He continues: Sub-sub isthe strongest lord and we should attach careful attention to this insuch a way that its star lord should be posited in the sign whichshould be a female sign (the case is for female birth) ...

> Further his argument was, The sub- sub lord of the lagna (Ascendant)will decide whether the native is a male born or a female born,> It is true that on the basis of RP we can select the sub- sub toarrive at the conclusion that may not always be correct.

> In ruling planets, lords of Sub- sub may be one but in Birth chartlord of sub -sub may be different.> (for example, suppose we wisely selected planet A as Sub- sub lordbecause he is posited in the star of planet B who is posited in the

required Rasi but while birth chart is erected A may not be positedin the star of B , He may have shifted to some other Rasi which is notrequired one .This we

should carefully bear in mind) > Whether consideration of Saturn sub- sub is justified or not can beverified from the birth chart when we will erect her cusp andplanetary positions. > * To determine the sex of native, sub- sub lord of Ascendant lagan

is to be examined. The sub -sub lord of the lagan is Say a Planet SATand SAT is posited at Virgo - kanya and SAT is a female rasi butSAT s occupancy in the female sign is not the final determinantfactor. Star position of the planet in stellar method is to be taken

in to deep consideration. Saturn is posited in the star of Moon who isposited in the female sign of Taurus- Rishaba. So we can say thatnative is a female one.> I appreciate The Answer given by Sri Lajmi ji and agree to Shri

K.P.Naidu if any rule applies Reverse may also be true (barring a fewunknown parameters ) as its application is discussed in example quotedabove.>

Although I could not understand>if not, correct it is as per KPmethod < in the statement of Shri lajmi ji.> I hope Now Hard liner will say That Pdt Kar was not in KP Astrology.> May be who knows.

> Lastly every body knows lagan is fastest so with time, Sub-sub willalso be very fast and Star lord is also going to change, I want tounderstand why this theory is untouchable?> With regards.>

> R.C.Srivastava. .> swami

> Past mails summary.> > By the way rule was > * Yogesh Rao Lajmi Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 7:53 PM DearSuneel,> If the TOB given is the exact one, (if not, correct it as per K.P

method). Then, pl. follow the method given by Mr. Sunil Gondhalekar : " If the sub-lord of the sub-lord of the Ascendant, if posited in astar, whose lord is situated in a male sign then the chart is of amale child... if in a female sign, then the chart is of a female child... "

> So far, I have found this method extremelyaccurate... L.Y.Rao.> * K. P. Naidu konathalan (AT) (DOT) co.in o: @gro ups.com

> Thursday, 8 January, 2009 9:44:54 PM> Dear sri Rao garu, > If the method of sri Gondhalekar for ascertaining the gender of thenative of the given chart, proved correct, can we confirm that the

chart is correct and the Birth Date is correct. In other wards, can weuse this Gondhalekar; s method to rectify/correct the Birth Time ? Regards. K. P. Naidu, Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts., Nowroji Road,Maharanipeta, VISAKHAPATNAM 530002. Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.

> * Personally,I use the method given in Astrosecrets & K.P byMr.K.Subramaniam and the late Shri M.P. Shanmugham, Part II...but Iinclude the sub and sub-sub also to fine-tune the TOB...but, sometimes,rarely though, this method does not seem practicable, in that case I

use the Ruling Planets method described in the same book...>

It is well to remember that, ifthe Ascendant's sub lord and the sub-sub lord appear to the same asthe st.-lord and sub-lord of the Moon...such a TOB arrived at, isexact to the minute...

> * K. P. Naidu Friday, 9 January, 2009, 10:19 PM> Dear sri Rao Garu, > I am sorry, the matter is deviated. I have not referred Shanmugam'smethod nor RP method. Some reader in this forum raised query " How to

to acertain the gender of the native of a given chart - whether of amale or female ? " . You have replied Gondhalekar' s method - If theAscendant's sub lord's sub lord's star lord falls in a male sign the

native of the given chart is Male, if falls in female sign the nativeis female child. All this holds good, if the Birth Time is correct.> You

said the above Gondhalekar' s method will work only when theBirth Time of the chart is correct.> I, therefore, asked you in my previous message, whether the abovemethod works in reverse order to rectify Birth Time. i.e., if sri

Gondhalekar' s method gives correct result, can we consider Birth Timeis correct ? If yes, this method can be used for BTR. > Hope now I am clear. Regards.> * This theory should be taken with a pinch of salt. There may be

periods when all the planets happen to occupy either male or femalesigns for up to 2¼ days. For example, from 12-10-2009 2 a...m.approximately to 14-10-2009 approx 3.30 a.m. about over 2 days, allthe planets will occupy female signs. Can it be possible that all the

births during these 2 days would be only girls worldwide? > Hasmukhrai J Mehta. > * Dear Mehta In the male sign, the first fifteen degrees are maleand the next

fifteen degrees are female and vice versa for female sign. > Dhanabalan > * The theory, untested should be taken with not " a pinch " , but witha Pail of salt> raichur anant mumbai> * Agreed. And, I thnik that KP does not recognize this theory.

> > Hasmukhrai J Mehta>

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January 21, 2009

Dear Lajmi ji,I am aware of this method and I am also aware of the dispute on Moon-Ascendant connection method. There is also a statistical research in this forum which disproves it. Though in my opinion, without knowing practical application of sub-sub, there is no way to check the correctness practically.

Let me put it this way, suppose I create a new method of birth time rectification (Punit's method of BTR) where I say that Sun's star lord and sub-lord must appear as the sub-lord and sub-sub lord of the ascendant. I claim that it is correct. Now how you will prove or disprove it? This is I mean by a method of practical verification.

Thanks & Regards,Punit PandeyOn Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Yogesh Rao Lajmi <lyrastro1 wrote: