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hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 



 

Dear Rafal,

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

this is helps.

 

Regards,

 

tarun

 

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 



Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

 

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on

this count.

 

Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

 

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

 

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

 

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa. com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

      (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

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Share on other sites

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Om Gurave Namah

Dear memebers of the thread,

Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes under the

influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in scriptures something

universal must be found.

I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic must be universal,

if not than it`s something else.

I don`t see how spirituality is different from any segment of life as

spirit resides in everything or?

One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit is thread, so

connection exist. The rest is for the experts to think about.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Anand ji,

>

> It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made cloth :-)

>

> as Bharat ji said

> " " If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual cloth -

then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to anyone.

Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which comes

from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just decide

which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any living

organism. " "

>

> The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be used in

those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now call

them saree actually.

>

> Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that , do he

want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to wear in

Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

>

> If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more detailed, but

Sari is not the exact term.

> Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age.

> as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

>

> " The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer

to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc.

> " "

>

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

>

-

> Anand Ravi

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> Om Namah Shivaya

>

> Dear Tarun, Namaste

>

> Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for

mummification too. Please correct me if

> Iam wrong.

>

> In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for

some special occation is tied in a specific

> way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times.

I remember they tied my dothi

> to in this way during Upanayanam.

>

> Rgds

> Anand

>

>

> On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo wrote:

> 

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

>

> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

this is helps.

>

> Regards,

>

> tarun

>

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tarun,

>

> Yes, what is the difference between current and those

described in Vedas - clear question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

>

> 

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> cheer means cloth, not sari.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shailesh,

>

> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-

Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over.

Agree?

>

> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans.

So clothes also.

>

> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

to answer.

>

> To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

>

> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

divine knowledge - not human.

>

> Your question relates to human practices.

>

> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is

no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

>

> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall

any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge

is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana'

episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

>

> Also, please appreciate that Vedas

represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural'

knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS

interchangeably.

>

> So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

>

> Regards,

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

>

> On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

>

> Tarun: So which state of India represents closest

form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

>

> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

>

> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

>

> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

>

>

>

> I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

count.

>

>

>

> Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †"

Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

>

>

>

> They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the

only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

>

>

>

> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

>

>

>

> These changed with the time, with the development

of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

> sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> sohamsa@ .com

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tijana,

>

> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious

from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

>

> It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC

CLOTHING.

>

> Thank You for help.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

> nix_nixen napisał(a):

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rafal,

> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

clothing than we can

> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

Mahabharata- the famous

> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

that proves long

> history of sari.

> One of the important thing about sari and other

traditional clothes

> is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

Modifications were

> done with coming of the Muslims and English.

Probably only Indian

> scholars of history of clothing and costume could

say what is

> traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together

a specific message

> and honestly i think that choice of saris and

dhotis of people today

> (especially from the west) is accidental or half-

understood.

> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

clothes and

> ornaments are important.

> Hope this helps in some way.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

> sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

<starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharat,

> >

> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes

are connected to

> culture

> > obviously. Differentation based on role in

society doesnt negate

> fact

> > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not.

I wanted to know how

> much

> > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis

and saris (esp

> those

> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very

easy for those who

> were

> > born in India .

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal@

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > >

> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

pramana to Satyam,

> isn't

> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

prescribed ochre

> robes

> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men

and Sanyasis have

> all

> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

different clothes.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@

wp.pl

> > > < starsuponme > wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > >

> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

debate with few

> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and

sari are not

> vedic

> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical

slokas which

> describe

> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

Dhoti/Sari? I

> tried to

> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit

word for Sari nor

> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to

name, but to

> form of

> > > that clothing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> --

> Shailesh C Chadha

>

> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are

and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those

who matter don't mind.

> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way.

Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

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Share on other sites

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Dear Rafal and others.May this web-site indulge you all about clothing and textiles post vedic or 3000BChttp://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/textiles

AnandOn 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

this is helps.

Regards,

tarun

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on

this count.

Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

Regards,

Shailesh

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa. com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

(Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- ThanksAnand Srivatsa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Anand,

 

Im grateful. Many interesting informations.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

Anand Srivatsa napisał(a):

 

 

Dear Rafal and others.

 

May this web-site indulge you all about clothing and textiles post

vedic or 3000BC

 

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/textiles

 

 

Anand

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme (AT) wp (DOT) pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah

adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email:

rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

 

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

this is helps.

 

Regards,

 

tarun

 

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the

'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

 

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct

on

this count.

 

Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

 

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

 

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

 

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme

>

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

      (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Thanks

Anand Srivatsa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Namaste Sri RafalTruly speaking, there is no such thing as a specified " Vedic Dress " . Let me attempt to answer your questions:

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?When Vedic principles are followed, then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes Vedic Management. Management may not be directly given in the Vedas.

If something is given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out the knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be " Vedic " . Since Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go against it, it can be called Vedic.

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?Not necessary to specify something as Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox people will start humiliating people by calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a categorization should not be done. Generally, clothing worn by those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause least harm to anyone.

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

It is a redundant question now in light of the above. There could be a question what type of clothing was prevalent at the time of the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian.

Thanks and RegardsBharat

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

this is helps.

Regards,

tarun

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@ .com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on

this count.

Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

Regards,

Shailesh

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa. com>

> >

> >

> >

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Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

(Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Namaste TijanaSpirit does not reside in everything. The correct statement is - Everything that is resides in the Lord (spirit, if you may call it).

The knower of the above isn't going to ask about Vedic clothes. However, a person who more and more identifies with this knowledge that all that is is the Lord, because deeply sensitive. For him/her the entireity is an expression of his real Self. To cause pain to anything is like causing pain to oneself. It is for this reason, the least painful becomes Sattwic and more spiritual.

This does not mean that people who wear cotton are spiritual. Just that people who tend to understand the truth of the first statement, tend to cause least harm.

For the same reason fruits are most Sattwic, since they cause the least harm. So on and so forth.Thanks and Regards

BharatOn 7/6/07, nix_nixen <

nix_nixen wrote:

 

 

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear memebers of the thread,

Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes under the

influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in scriptures something

universal must be found.

I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic must be universal,

if not than it`s something else.

I don`t see how spirituality is different from any segment of life as

spirit resides in everything or?

One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit is thread, so

connection exist. The rest is for the experts to think about.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Anand ji,

>

> It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made cloth :-)

>

> as Bharat ji said

> " " If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual cloth -

then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to anyone.

Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which comes

from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just decide

which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any living

organism. " "

>

> The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be used in

those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now call

them saree actually.

>

> Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that , do he

want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to wear in

Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

>

> If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more detailed, but

Sari is not the exact term.

> Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age.

> as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

>

> " The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer

to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc.

> " "

>

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> Anand Ravi

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> Om Namah Shivaya

>

> Dear Tarun, Namaste

>

> Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for

mummification too. Please correct me if

> Iam wrong.

>

> In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for

some special occation is tied in a specific

> way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times.

I remember they tied my dothi

> to in this way during Upanayanam.

>

> Rgds

> Anand

>

>

> On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo wrote:

> 

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

>

> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

this is helps.

>

> Regards,

>

> tarun

>

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tarun,

>

> Yes, what is the difference between current and those

described in Vedas - clear question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

>

> 

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> cheer means cloth, not sari.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shailesh,

>

> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-

Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is over.

Agree?

>

> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans.

So clothes also.

>

> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

to answer.

>

> To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

>

> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

divine knowledge - not human.

>

> Your question relates to human practices.

>

> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is

no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

>

> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall

any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge

is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana'

episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

>

> Also, please appreciate that Vedas

represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural'

knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS

interchangeably.

>

> So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

>

> Regards,

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

>

> On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

>

> Tarun: So which state of India represents closest

form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

>

> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

>

> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

>

> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

>

>

>

> I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

count.

>

>

>

> Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †"

Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

>

>

>

> They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the

only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

>

>

>

> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

>

>

>

> These changed with the time, with the development

of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

> sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> sohamsa@ .com

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tijana,

>

> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious

from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

>

> It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC

CLOTHING.

>

> Thank You for help.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

> nix_nixen napisał(a):

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rafal,

> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

clothing than we can

> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

Mahabharata- the famous

> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

that proves long

> history of sari.

> One of the important thing about sari and other

traditional clothes

> is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

Modifications were

> done with coming of the Muslims and English.

Probably only Indian

> scholars of history of clothing and costume could

say what is

> traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together

a specific message

> and honestly i think that choice of saris and

dhotis of people today

> (especially from the west) is accidental or half-

understood.

> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

clothes and

> ornaments are important.

> Hope this helps in some way.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

> sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

<starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharat,

> >

> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes

are connected to

> culture

> > obviously. Differentation based on role in

society doesnt negate

> fact

> > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not.

I wanted to know how

> much

> > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis

and saris (esp

> those

> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very

easy for those who

> were

> > born in India .

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal@

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > >

> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

pramana to Satyam,

> isn't

> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

prescribed ochre

> robes

> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men

and Sanyasis have

> all

> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

different clothes.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@

wp.pl

> > > < starsuponme > wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > >

> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

debate with few

> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and

sari are not

> vedic

> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical

slokas which

> describe

> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

Dhoti/Sari? I

> tried to

> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit

word for Sari nor

> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to

name, but to

> form of

> > > that clothing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> --

> Shailesh C Chadha

>

> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are

and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those

who matter don't mind.

> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way.

Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

 

 

 

 

 

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hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji,

 

Thank You.

 

#1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in Vedas/Puranas it

would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at least in

temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as stiched clothing is

prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule of the Vedas or Tantras

(Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be some philosophy behind it

which I thought we can find together

 

#2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt mean that

there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean that critic is

too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase Vedic Clothing.

 

There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it mean

spiritual people must wear it also?

 

I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris their

conciousness is better as they identify themselves with devotees of God.

 

#3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want to know

what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all times, or for

all times.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

 

 

Namaste Sri Rafal

 

 

Truly speaking,

there is no such thing as a specified "Vedic Dress". Let me attempt to

answer your questions:

 

 

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

When Vedic

principles are followed, then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you

follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it

to Management, it becomes Vedic Management. Management may not be

directly given in the Vedas. 

 

 

 

If something is

given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a

way of life born out the knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why,

it is not important for Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be

"Vedic". Since Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not

go against it, it can be called Vedic. 

 

 

 

#2 Is

there something like Vedic

Clothing?

Not necessary to

specify something as Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox

people will start humiliating people by calling them non-vedic on the

basis of a dress. Such a categorization should not be done. Generally,

clothing worn by those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause

least harm to anyone. 

 

 

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

It is a redundant

question now in light of the above. There could be a question what type

of clothing was prevalent at the time of the Vedas. For that you need

to ask a historian. 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme (AT) wp (DOT) pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah

adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email:

rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

this is helps.

 

Regards,

 

tarun

 

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the

'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

 

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct

on

this count.

 

Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

 

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

 

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

 

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme

>

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

      (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Namaste Sri Rafal#1 If a clothing is specified in the Vedas, then, it would qualify as Vedic. It wouldn't render the simple clothing based on " least harm principle " as unvedic.

#2 I wouldn't categorize. The main point is whether or not a person is understanding the Vedas, rather than wearing a particular dress. I have been to many ashrams and they all have a distinct Indian dress. I personally do not to the idea of using a dress to feel spiritual. Ofcourse, if one feels spiritual rather than " be spiritual " then, it is their choice.

#3 I meant a historian shall be able to tell you what kind of clothes were prevalent at the time of the Vedas. The next step would be to ask different people on why such clothes were prevalent. Whether some were prescribed for a particular reason or not.

Thanks and RegardsBharat

On 7/7/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji,

 

Thank You.

 

#1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in Vedas/Puranas it

would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at least in

temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as stiched clothing is

prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule of the Vedas or Tantras

(Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be some philosophy behind it

which I thought we can find together

 

#2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt mean that

there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean that critic is

too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase Vedic Clothing.

 

There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it mean

spiritual people must wear it also?

 

I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris their

conciousness is better as they identify themselves with devotees of God.

 

#3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want to know

what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all times, or for

all times.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

 

 

Namaste Sri Rafal

 

 

Truly speaking,

there is no such thing as a specified " Vedic Dress " . Let me attempt to

answer your questions:

 

 

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

When Vedic

principles are followed, then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you

follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it

to Management, it becomes Vedic Management. Management may not be

directly given in the Vedas.

 

 

 

If something is

given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a

way of life born out the knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why,

it is not important for Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be

" Vedic " . Since Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not

go against it, it can be called Vedic.

 

 

 

#2 Is

there something like Vedic

Clothing?

Not necessary to

specify something as Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox

people will start humiliating people by calling them non-vedic on the

basis of a dress. Such a categorization should not be done. Generally,

clothing worn by those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause

least harm to anyone.

 

 

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

It is a redundant

question now in light of the above. There could be a question what type

of clothing was prevalent at the time of the Vedas. For that you need

to ask a historian.

 

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah

adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email:

rafal

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

this is helps.

Regards,

tarun

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the

'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct

on

this count.

Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

Regards,

Shailesh

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme

>

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

(Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharat,

 

#1 Yes, right

 

#2 Yes, existence of main point dont exclude other points (detailed). I

dont feel this type of discussion as conclusive, so I know what You

mean. If one identify oneself with devotee of God then His service can

be on higher level - that was the sense of feeling.

 

#3 "Whether some were prescribed for a particular reason

or not" - That is the question!

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

Namaste Sri Rafal

 

 

#1 If a clothing is specified in the Vedas, then, it would

qualify as Vedic. It wouldn't render the simple clothing based on

"least harm principle" as unvedic. 

 

 

 

#2 I wouldn't categorize. The main point is whether or not a

person is understanding the Vedas, rather than wearing a particular

dress. I have been to many ashrams and they all have a distinct Indian

dress. I personally do not to the idea of using a dress to

feel spiritual. Ofcourse, if one feels spiritual rather than "be

spiritual" then, it is their choice. 

 

 

 

#3 I meant a historian shall be able to tell you what kind of

clothes were prevalent at the time of the Vedas. The next step would be

to ask different people on why such clothes were prevalent. Whether

some were prescribed for a particular reason or not.

 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 7/7/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji,

 

Thank You.

 

#1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in Vedas/Puranas it

would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at least in

temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as stiched clothing is

prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule of the Vedas or Tantras

(Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be some philosophy behind it

which I thought we can find together

 

#2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt mean that

there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean that critic is

too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase Vedic Clothing.

 

There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it mean

spiritual people must wear it also?

 

I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris their

conciousness is better as they identify themselves with devotees of God.

 

#3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want to know

what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all times, or for

all times.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

 

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

Namaste Sri Rafal

 

 

Truly speaking,

there is no such thing as a specified "Vedic Dress". Let me attempt to

answer your questions:

 

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

When Vedic

principles are followed, then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you

follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it

to Management, it becomes Vedic Management. Management may not be

directly given in the Vedas. 

 

 

If something is

given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a

way of life born out the knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why,

it is not important for Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be

"Vedic". Since Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not

go against it, it can be called Vedic. 

 

 

#2 Is

there something like Vedic

Clothing?

Not necessary to

specify something as Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox

people will start humiliating people by calling them non-vedic on the

basis of a dress. Such a categorization should not be done. Generally,

clothing worn by those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause

least harm to anyone. 

 

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

It is a redundant

question now in light of the above. There could be a question what type

of clothing was prevalent at the time of the Vedas. For that you need

to ask a historian. 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah

adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji & others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the

other say that definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of

Sastras were wearing this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should

also wear it, because it helps in spiritual culture/conciousnes s.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that

something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic

Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

 

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

stiching

that time.

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

this is helps.

 

Regards,

 

tarun

 

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisał(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

Rafal Gendarz

sohamsa@

..com

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal,

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible - to answer.

 

To start with, we do not know what is the

'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent divine knowledge - not human.

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge -

there

were no written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and

Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the

type of clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is all that

exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from

Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas

represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

 

I am afraid your ISKON friends are

correct

on

this count.

 

Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

 

They all seem so similar - all of them

wore

unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

 

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

 

These changed with the time, with the

development of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007

2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re:

Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT)

com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

      (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't

mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Om Gurave Namah

Pranam Bharatji,

I see your statement correct if we say that all resides with Lord as

If everything that is resides in the Lord it can not be separated

from Him which means that everything that is is the same with the

Lord so He resides in everything also being everything.

" The luminosity of Atman consists in the manifestation of all

objects. " -tat tvam asi

(AdiShankara)

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

 

sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

<astrologyhindu wrote:

>

> Namaste Tijana

> Spirit does not reside in everything. The correct statement is -

Everything

> that is resides in the Lord (spirit, if you may call it).

>

> The knower of the above isn't going to ask about Vedic clothes.

However, a

> person who more and more identifies with this knowledge that all

that is is

> the Lord, because deeply sensitive. For him/her the entireity is an

> expression of his real Self. To cause pain to anything is like

causing pain

> to oneself. It is for this reason, the least painful becomes

Sattwic and

> more spiritual.

>

> This does not mean that people who wear cotton are spiritual. Just

that

> people who tend to understand the truth of the first statement,

tend to

> cause least harm.

>

> For the same reason fruits are most Sattwic, since they cause the

least

> harm. So on and so forth.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

>

> On 7/6/07, nix_nixen <nix_nixen wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Dear memebers of the thread,

> > Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes under the

> > influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in scriptures

something

> > universal must be found.

> > I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic must be

universal,

> > if not than it`s something else.

> > I don`t see how spirituality is different from any segment of

life as

> > spirit resides in everything or?

> > One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit is thread, so

> > connection exist. The rest is for the experts to think about.

> > Warm regards,

> > Tijana

> >

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>, " ~Tarun~ " <

> > tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Anand ji,

> > >

> > > It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made

cloth :-)

> > >

> > > as Bharat ji said

> > > " " If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual

cloth -

> > then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to

anyone.

> > Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which

comes

> > from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just

decide

> > which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any

living

> > organism. " "

> > >

> > > The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be used in

> > those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now call

> > them saree actually.

> > >

> > > Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that , do he

> > want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to wear

in

> > Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

> > >

> > > If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more detailed,

but

> > Sari is not the exact term.

> > > Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age.

> > > as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

> > >

> > > " The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer

> > to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc.

> > > " "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Tarun

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Anand Ravi

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Om Namah Shivaya

> > >

> > > Dear Tarun, Namaste

> > >

> > > Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for

> > mummification too. Please correct me if

> > > Iam wrong.

> > >

> > > In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for

> > some special occation is tied in a specific

> > > way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times.

> > I remember they tied my dothi

> > > to in this way during Upanayanam.

> > >

> > > Rgds

> > > Anand

> > >

> > >

> > > On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > 

> > >

> > > Dear Rafal,

> > >

> > > The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

> > that time.

> > > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> > > they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> > >

> > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

> > this is helps.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > tarun

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > >

> > >

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear Tarun,

> > >

> > > Yes, what is the difference between current and those

> > described in Vedas - clear question.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal@

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > >

> > >

> > > ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > Dear Rafal,

> > >

> > > cheer means cloth, not sari.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Tarun

> > >

> > > -

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > >

> > >

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear Shailesh,

> > >

> > > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-

> > Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is

over.

> > Agree?

> > >

> > > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans.

> > So clothes also.

> > >

> > > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal@

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > >

> > >

> > > Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> > >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Rafal,

> > >

> > > Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

> > to answer.

> > >

> > > To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

> > >

> > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

> > divine knowledge - not human.

> > >

> > > Your question relates to human practices.

> > >

> > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

> > written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

there is

> > no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

> > >

> > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> > generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not

recall

> > any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or

knowledge

> > is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana'

> > episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

> > >

> > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas

> > represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or

the 'cultural'

> > knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS

> > interchangeably.

> > >

> > > So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Shailesh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

> > >

> > > Tarun: So which state of India represents closest

> > form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

> > >

> > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > >

> > >

> > > Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> > >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

> > count.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †"

> > Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

> > clothes???

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore

> > unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the

> > only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > These changed with the time, with the development

> > of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Shailesh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

> > . com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > hraum namah adityaya

> > >

> > > Dear Tijana,

> > >

> > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious

> > from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

> > >

> > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

> > DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

> > >

> > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC

> > CLOTHING.

> > >

> > > Thank You for help.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > >

> > > nix_nixen napisał(a):

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > Dear Rafal,

> > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

> > clothing than we can

> > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

> > Mahabharata- the famous

> > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

> > that proves long

> > > history of sari.

> > > One of the important thing about sari and other

> > traditional clothes

> > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

> > Modifications were

> > > done with coming of the Muslims and English.

> > Probably only Indian

> > > scholars of history of clothing and costume could

> > say what is

> > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together

> > a specific message

> > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and

> > dhotis of people today

> > > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-

> > understood.

> > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

> > clothes and

> > > ornaments are important.

> > > Hope this helps in some way.

> > > Warm regards,

> > > Tijana

> > >

> > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

> > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > >

> > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes

> > are connected to

> > > culture

> > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in

> > society doesnt negate

> > > fact

> > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not.

> > I wanted to know how

> > > much

> > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis

> > and saris (esp

> > > those

> > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very

> > easy for those who

> > > were

> > > > born in India .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal@

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > > >

> > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

> > pramana to Satyam,

> > > isn't

> > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

> > prescribed ochre

> > > robes

> > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men

> > and Sanyasis have

> > > all

> > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

> > different clothes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > Bharat

> > > > >

> > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@

> > wp.pl

> > > > > < starsuponme > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > > >

> > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

> > debate with few

> > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and

> > sari are not

> > > vedic

> > > > > clothes. Could You give me some classical

> > slokas which

> > > describe

> > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

> > Dhoti/Sari? I

> > > tried to

> > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit

> > word for Sari nor

> > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to

> > name, but to

> > > form of

> > > > > that clothing.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

> > http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Shailesh C Chadha

> > >

> > > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> > > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> > > Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> > > (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> > > ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are

> > and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and

those

> > who matter don't mind.

> > > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way.

> > Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Om Gurave Namah

Dear Bharatji,

what do you mean by-in the time of the Vedas? The time when they were

writed down?

Please correct me on this if you think it wrong-Vedas as an

expression of the universal knowledge don`t have beginning. What is

subdued to time is our understanding of that knowledge and it is

changing from age to age. The essence of the Veda remains the same.

It is we who are reading it and understanding it different.

This was my point when i said that Vedic must be universal as if not

then it falls into the maya of historic experience.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> #1 Yes, right

>

> #2 Yes, existence of main point dont exclude other points

(detailed). I

> dont feel this type of discussion as conclusive, so I know what You

> mean. If one identify oneself with devotee of God then His service

can

> be on higher level - that was the sense of feeling.

>

> #3 " Whether some were prescribed for a particular reason or not " -

That

> is the question!

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> >

> > #1 If a clothing is specified in the Vedas, then, it would

qualify as

> > Vedic. It wouldn't render the simple clothing based on " least

harm

> > principle " as unvedic.

> >

> > #2 I wouldn't categorize. The main point is whether or not a

person is

> > understanding the Vedas, rather than wearing a particular dress.

I

> > have been to many ashrams and they all have a distinct Indian

dress. I

> > personally do not to the idea of using a dress to feel

> > spiritual. Ofcourse, if one feels spiritual rather than " be

spiritual "

> > then, it is their choice.

> >

> > #3 I meant a historian shall be able to tell you what kind of

clothes

> > were prevalent at the time of the Vedas. The next step would be

to ask

> > different people on why such clothes were prevalent. Whether some

were

> > prescribed for a particular reason or not.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On 7/7/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharatji,

> >

> > Thank You.

> >

> > #1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in

Vedas/Puranas

> > it would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at

> > least in temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as

> > stiched clothing is prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule

of

> > the Vedas or Tantras (Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be

some

> > philosophy behind it which I thought we can find together

> >

> > #2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt

mean

> > that there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean

that

> > critic is too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase

Vedic

> > Clothing.

> >

> > There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it

> > mean spiritual people must wear it also?

> >

> > I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris

their

> > conciousness is better as they identify themselves with

devotees

> > of God.

> >

> > #3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want

to

> > know what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all

> > times, or for all times.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> >

> >> Namaste Sri Rafal

> >>

> >>

> >> Truly speaking, there is no such thing as a specified " Vedic

> >> Dress " . Let me attempt to answer your questions:

> >>

> >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> >> When Vedic principles are followed, then, it is called

Vedic. For

> >> example, if you follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or

> >> Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes Vedic

> >> Management. Management may not be directly given in the

Vedas.

> >>

> >> If something is given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely

> >> Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out the knowledge

> >> contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for

> >> Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be " Vedic " . Since

> >> Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go

> >> against it, it can be called Vedic.

> >>

> >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> >> Not necessary to specify something as Vedic Clothing, then,

many

> >> strangely orthodox people will start humiliating people by

> >> calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a

> >> categorization should not be done. Generally, clothing worn

by

> >> those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause least

harm

> >> to anyone.

> >>

> >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> >> It is a redundant question now in light of the above. There

could

> >> be a question what type of clothing was prevalent at the

time of

> >> the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian.

> >>

> >> Thanks and Regards

> >> Bharat

> >>

> >>

> >> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> >> <starsuponme> wrote:

> >>

> >> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>

> >> Dear Bharatji & others,

> >>

> >> Thank You.

> >>

> >> Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon

Swamis.

> >> One is proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic

> >> Clothing, while the other say that definitely Dhoti and

Sari

> >> are Vedic because Hero'es of Sastras were wearing this

kind

> >> of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should also wear it,

because

> >> it helps in spiritual culture/conciousnes s.

> >>

> >> So:

> >>

> >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> >>

> >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> >>

> >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Rafal Gendarz

> >> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>

> >>

> >> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>

> >>

> >> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> >>>

> >>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>

> >>> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

stiching

> >>> that time.

> >>> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> >>> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> >>>

> >>> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

> >>> this is helps.

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>>

> >>> tarun

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> -

> >>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

> >>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>> <sohamsa >

> >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> >>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> >>>

> >>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>

> >>> Dear Tarun,

> >>>

> >>> Yes, what is the difference between current and

those

> >>> described in Vedas - clear question.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> >>>

> >>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>

> >>>> cheer means cloth, not sari.

> >>>>

> >>>> Regards,

> >>>>

> >>>> Tarun

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> -

> >>>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

> >>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>>> <sohamsa >

> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> >>>>

> >>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Shailesh,

> >>>>

> >>>> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or

Purana

> >>>> (Panca-Veda) . If we could get accurate

description

> >>>> then our problem is over. Agree?

> >>>>

> >>>> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers

to

> >>>> humans. So clothes also.

> >>>>

> >>>> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is

question.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Regards,

> >>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> >>>>

> >>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

*

> >>>>>

> >>>>> **

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Your question is very difficult - almost

> >>>>> impossible - to answer.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> To start with, we do not know what is

the 'VEDIC

> >>>>> TIME'.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

> >>>>> represent divine knowledge - not human.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Your question relates to human practices.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

> >>>>> were no written books or pictorial

representations

> >>>>> at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of

the

> >>>>> clothing used at that time.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> >>>>> generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> >>>>>

like 'angavastra' , 'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' ,

> >>>>> etc. I do not recall any mention of the type

of

> >>>>> clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is

all

> >>>>> that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned,

> >>>>> 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so

> >>>>> welll-known.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

> >>>>> 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the

> >>>>> 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the

> >>>>> terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> So, the question may remain unresolved;

> >>>>> unfortunately.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> /Shailesh ///

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> >>>>> <starsuponme> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji,

Tarunji,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Tarun: So which state of India represents

> >>>>> closest form? Is some form closest to

Vedic?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic

Clothing?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Regards,

> >>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> >>>>> <rafal

> >>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> >>>>>

> >>>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| | *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> * *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I am afraid your ISKON friends are

correct on

> >>>>>> this count.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes

> >>>>>> †" Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient

Egyptian,

> >>>>>> Greece or even Roman clothes???

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> They all seem so similar - all of them

wore

> >>>>>> unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the

> >>>>>> traditional dhoti †" the only

difference was

> >>>>>> the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> These changed with the time, with the

> >>>>>> development of tailoring skills, and

with the

> >>>>>> local 'fashion'.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> /Shailesh ///

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> **sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>> [sohamsa] *On

Behalf

> >>>>>> Of *Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> >>>>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> *hraum namah adityaya *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Tijana,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so

> >>>>>> obvious from the sastras that I cant

> >>>>>> understand their arguments fully.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> It seems that they say that CURRENT

SARIS AND

> >>>>>> DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC

CLOTHING.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Therefore wanted to grasp information

about

> >>>>>> VEDIC CLOTHING.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Thank You for help.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> >>>>>> <rafal

> >>>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> nix_nixen napisał(a):

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Om Gurave Namah

> >>>>>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>>>> i`m sure there`s much more on

traditional

> >>>>>>> clothing than we can

> >>>>>>> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in

the

> >>>>>>> Mahabharata- the famous

> >>>>>>> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s

> >>>>>>> virtue that proves long

> >>>>>>> history of sari.

> >>>>>>> One of the important thing about sari

and

> >>>>>>> other traditional clothes

> >>>>>>> is believing that the unstitched fabric

is

> >>>>>>> pure. Modifications were

> >>>>>>> done with coming of the Muslims and

English.

> >>>>>>> Probably only Indian

> >>>>>>> scholars of history of clothing and

costume

> >>>>>>> could say what is

> >>>>>>> traditional in clothes we are seeing

today.

> >>>>>>> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring

> >>>>>>> together a specific message

> >>>>>>> and honestly i think that choice of

saris

> >>>>>>> and dhotis of people today

> >>>>>>> (especially from the west) is

accidental or

> >>>>>>> half-understood.

> >>>>>>> As for Devatas my guess is that the

color of

> >>>>>>> the clothes and

> >>>>>>> ornaments are important.

> >>>>>>> Hope this helps in some way.

> >>>>>>> Warm regards,

> >>>>>>> Tijana

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>>> <sohamsa%40>,

Rafal

> >>>>>>> Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Dear Bharat,

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture.

> >>>>>>> Clothes are connected to

> >>>>>>> culture

> >>>>>>> > obviously. Differentation based on

role in

> >>>>>>> society doesnt negate

> >>>>>>> fact

> >>>>>>> > that we can say some clothing is

Vedic or

> >>>>>>> not. I wanted to know how

> >>>>>>> much

> >>>>>>> > Devatas clothes are connected to

current

> >>>>>>> dhotis and saris (esp

> >>>>>>> those

> >>>>>>> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would

be

> >>>>>>> very easy for those who

> >>>>>>> were

> >>>>>>> > born in India .

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Regards,

> >>>>>>> > Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>>> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>>> > email: rafal@

> >>>>>>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/> . com

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one.

Veda as

> >>>>>>> a pramana to Satyam,

> >>>>>>> isn't

> >>>>>>> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi

> >>>>>>> Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

> >>>>>>> robes

> >>>>>>> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings,

learned

> >>>>>>> men and Sanyasis have

> >>>>>>> all

> >>>>>>> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They

all

> >>>>>>> wore different clothes.

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Thanks and Regards

> >>>>>>> > > Bharat

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz*

<starsuponme@

> >>>>>>> wp.pl

> >>>>>>> > > <starsuponme

> >>>>>>> <starsuponme>> wrote:

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Could you help me with one issue? I

have

> >>>>>>> one debate with few

> >>>>>>> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that

dhoti

> >>>>>>> and sari are not

> >>>>>>> vedic

> >>>>>>> > > clothes. Could You give me some

classical

> >>>>>>> slokas which

> >>>>>>> describe

> >>>>>>> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women

> >>>>>>> wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

> >>>>>>> tried to

> >>>>>>> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no

> >>>>>>> Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> >>>>>>> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not

attached

> >>>>>>> to name, but to

> >>>>>>> form of

> >>>>>>> > > that clothing.

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Regards,

> >>>>>>> > > Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>>> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>>> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

<rafal@ ...>

> >>>>>>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/>. com

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>>

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> --

> >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha

> >>>>>

> >>>>> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> >>>>> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> >>>>> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> >>>>> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who

you

> >>>>> are and say what you feel because those who

mind

> >>>>> don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

> >>>>> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a

way.

> >>>>> Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> >>>>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Namaste TijanaI agree it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fix the time of " Knowledge " (Vedas). I guess for history purposes and purpose of the discussion on Vedic Clothes, we can think of it as the time period when Sri Veda Vyasa compiled the Vedas. The time before him was also Vedic and that time continues for many now too. This is difficult to grasp for most. So for " practical " purposes time when Upanishads were taught to students desiring moksha, and in a general sense the purpose of the Vedas was not forgotten as it is now, we can call it the Vedic time period.

Ofcourse Vedas are universal as Sat can never be Asat and Vedas are the pramana. It is good to know that you are studying this subject. With your thinking and calibre, I think you should study it seriously, if not doing so already, under the guidance of an able Gurudev.

Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 7/7/07,

nix_nixen <nix_nixen wrote:

 

 

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Bharatji,

what do you mean by-in the time of the Vedas? The time when they were

writed down?

Please correct me on this if you think it wrong-Vedas as an

expression of the universal knowledge don`t have beginning. What is

subdued to time is our understanding of that knowledge and it is

changing from age to age. The essence of the Veda remains the same.

It is we who are reading it and understanding it different.

This was my point when i said that Vedic must be universal as if not

then it falls into the maya of historic experience.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> #1 Yes, right

>

> #2 Yes, existence of main point dont exclude other points

(detailed). I

> dont feel this type of discussion as conclusive, so I know what You

> mean. If one identify oneself with devotee of God then His service

can

> be on higher level - that was the sense of feeling.

>

> #3 " Whether some were prescribed for a particular reason or not " -

That

> is the question!

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> >

> > #1 If a clothing is specified in the Vedas, then, it would

qualify as

> > Vedic. It wouldn't render the simple clothing based on " least

harm

> > principle " as unvedic.

> >

> > #2 I wouldn't categorize. The main point is whether or not a

person is

> > understanding the Vedas, rather than wearing a particular dress.

I

> > have been to many ashrams and they all have a distinct Indian

dress. I

> > personally do not to the idea of using a dress to feel

> > spiritual. Ofcourse, if one feels spiritual rather than " be

spiritual "

> > then, it is their choice.

> >

> > #3 I meant a historian shall be able to tell you what kind of

clothes

> > were prevalent at the time of the Vedas. The next step would be

to ask

> > different people on why such clothes were prevalent. Whether some

were

> > prescribed for a particular reason or not.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On 7/7/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharatji,

> >

> > Thank You.

> >

> > #1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in

Vedas/Puranas

> > it would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at

> > least in temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as

> > stiched clothing is prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule

of

> > the Vedas or Tantras (Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be

some

> > philosophy behind it which I thought we can find together

> >

> > #2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt

mean

> > that there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean

that

> > critic is too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase

Vedic

> > Clothing.

> >

> > There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it

> > mean spiritual people must wear it also?

> >

> > I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris

their

> > conciousness is better as they identify themselves with

devotees

> > of God.

> >

> > #3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want

to

> > know what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all

> > times, or for all times.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> >

> >> Namaste Sri Rafal

> >>

> >>

> >> Truly speaking, there is no such thing as a specified " Vedic

> >> Dress " . Let me attempt to answer your questions:

> >>

> >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> >> When Vedic principles are followed, then, it is called

Vedic. For

> >> example, if you follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or

> >> Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes Vedic

> >> Management. Management may not be directly given in the

Vedas.

> >>

> >> If something is given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely

> >> Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out the knowledge

> >> contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for

> >> Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be " Vedic " . Since

> >> Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go

> >> against it, it can be called Vedic.

> >>

> >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> >> Not necessary to specify something as Vedic Clothing, then,

many

> >> strangely orthodox people will start humiliating people by

> >> calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a

> >> categorization should not be done. Generally, clothing worn

by

> >> those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause least

harm

> >> to anyone.

> >>

> >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> >> It is a redundant question now in light of the above. There

could

> >> be a question what type of clothing was prevalent at the

time of

> >> the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian.

> >>

> >> Thanks and Regards

> >> Bharat

> >>

> >>

> >> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> >> <starsuponme> wrote:

> >>

> >> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>

> >> Dear Bharatji & others,

> >>

> >> Thank You.

> >>

> >> Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon

Swamis.

> >> One is proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic

> >> Clothing, while the other say that definitely Dhoti and

Sari

> >> are Vedic because Hero'es of Sastras were wearing this

kind

> >> of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should also wear it,

because

> >> it helps in spiritual culture/conciousnes s.

> >>

> >> So:

> >>

> >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> >>

> >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> >>

> >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> >>

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Rafal Gendarz

> >> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>

> >>

> >> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>

> >>

> >> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> >>>

> >>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>

> >>> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

stiching

> >>> that time.

> >>> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> >>> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> >>>

> >>> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

hope

> >>> this is helps.

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>>

> >>> tarun

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> -

> >>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

> >>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>> <sohamsa >

> >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> >>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> >>>

> >>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>

> >>> Dear Tarun,

> >>>

> >>> Yes, what is the difference between current and

those

> >>> described in Vedas - clear question.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> >>>

> >>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>

> >>>> cheer means cloth, not sari.

> >>>>

> >>>> Regards,

> >>>>

> >>>> Tarun

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> -

> >>>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

> >>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>>> <sohamsa >

> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> >>>>

> >>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>

> >>>> Dear Shailesh,

> >>>>

> >>>> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or

Purana

> >>>> (Panca-Veda) . If we could get accurate

description

> >>>> then our problem is over. Agree?

> >>>>

> >>>> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers

to

> >>>> humans. So clothes also.

> >>>>

> >>>> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is

question.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Regards,

> >>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal

> >>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> >>>>

> >>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

*

> >>>>>

> >>>>> **

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Your question is very difficult - almost

> >>>>> impossible - to answer.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> To start with, we do not know what is

the 'VEDIC

> >>>>> TIME'.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

> >>>>> represent divine knowledge - not human.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Your question relates to human practices.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

> >>>>> were no written books or pictorial

representations

> >>>>> at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of

the

> >>>>> clothing used at that time.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> >>>>> generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> >>>>>

like 'angavastra' , 'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' ,

> >>>>> etc. I do not recall any mention of the type

of

> >>>>> clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is

all

> >>>>> that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned,

> >>>>> 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so

> >>>>> welll-known.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

> >>>>> 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the

> >>>>> 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the

> >>>>> terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> So, the question may remain unresolved;

> >>>>> unfortunately.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> /Shailesh ///

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> >>>>> <starsuponme> wrote:

> >>>>>

> >>>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji,

Tarunji,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Tarun: So which state of India represents

> >>>>> closest form? Is some form closest to

Vedic?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic

Clothing?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Regards,

> >>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> >>>>> <rafal

> >>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> >>>>>

> >>>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| | *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> * *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I am afraid your ISKON friends are

correct on

> >>>>>> this count.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Have you compared the so called Vedic

clothes

> >>>>>> �€ " Dhoti or saree �€ " with the ancient

Egyptian,

> >>>>>> Greece or even Roman clothes???

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> They all seem so similar - all of them

wore

> >>>>>> unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the

> >>>>>> traditional dhoti �€ " the only

difference was

> >>>>>> the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> These changed with the time, with the

> >>>>>> development of tailoring skills, and

with the

> >>>>>> local 'fashion'.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> /Shailesh ///

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> **sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>> [sohamsa] *On

Behalf

> >>>>>> Of *Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> >>>>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> *hraum namah adityaya *

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Dear Tijana,

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so

> >>>>>> obvious from the sastras that I cant

> >>>>>> understand their arguments fully.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> It seems that they say that CURRENT

SARIS AND

> >>>>>> DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC

CLOTHING.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Therefore wanted to grasp information

about

> >>>>>> VEDIC CLOTHING.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Thank You for help.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Regards,

> >>>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> >>>>>> <rafal

> >>>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

 

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> nix_nixen napisał(a):

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Om Gurave Namah

> >>>>>>> Dear Rafal,

> >>>>>>> i`m sure there`s much more on

traditional

> >>>>>>> clothing than we can

> >>>>>>> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in

the

> >>>>>>> Mahabharata- the famous

> >>>>>>> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s

> >>>>>>> virtue that proves long

> >>>>>>> history of sari.

> >>>>>>> One of the important thing about sari

and

> >>>>>>> other traditional clothes

> >>>>>>> is believing that the unstitched fabric

is

> >>>>>>> pure. Modifications were

> >>>>>>> done with coming of the Muslims and

English.

> >>>>>>> Probably only Indian

> >>>>>>> scholars of history of clothing and

costume

> >>>>>>> could say what is

> >>>>>>> traditional in clothes we are seeing

today.

> >>>>>>> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring

> >>>>>>> together a specific message

> >>>>>>> and honestly i think that choice of

saris

> >>>>>>> and dhotis of people today

> >>>>>>> (especially from the west) is

accidental or

> >>>>>>> half-understood.

> >>>>>>> As for Devatas my guess is that the

color of

> >>>>>>> the clothes and

> >>>>>>> ornaments are important.

> >>>>>>> Hope this helps in some way.

> >>>>>>> Warm regards,

> >>>>>>> Tijana

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> sohamsa@ .com

> >>>>>>> <sohamsa%40

>,

Rafal

> >>>>>>> Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Dear Bharat,

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture.

> >>>>>>> Clothes are connected to

> >>>>>>> culture

> >>>>>>> > obviously. Differentation based on

role in

> >>>>>>> society doesnt negate

> >>>>>>> fact

> >>>>>>> > that we can say some clothing is

Vedic or

> >>>>>>> not. I wanted to know how

> >>>>>>> much

> >>>>>>> > Devatas clothes are connected to

current

> >>>>>>> dhotis and saris (esp

> >>>>>>> those

> >>>>>>> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would

be

> >>>>>>> very easy for those who

> >>>>>>> were

> >>>>>>> > born in India .

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Regards,

> >>>>>>> > Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>>> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>>> > email: rafal@

> >>>>>>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/> . com

 

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one.

Veda as

> >>>>>>> a pramana to Satyam,

> >>>>>>> isn't

> >>>>>>> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi

> >>>>>>> Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

> >>>>>>> robes

> >>>>>>> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings,

learned

> >>>>>>> men and Sanyasis have

> >>>>>>> all

> >>>>>>> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They

all

> >>>>>>> wore different clothes.

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Thanks and Regards

> >>>>>>> > > Bharat

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz*

<starsuponme@

> >>>>>>> wp.pl

> >>>>>>> > > <starsuponme

> >>>>>>> <starsuponme>> wrote:

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Could you help me with one issue? I

have

> >>>>>>> one debate with few

> >>>>>>> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that

dhoti

> >>>>>>> and sari are not

> >>>>>>> vedic

> >>>>>>> > > clothes. Could You give me some

classical

> >>>>>>> slokas which

> >>>>>>> describe

> >>>>>>> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women

> >>>>>>> wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

> >>>>>>> tried to

> >>>>>>> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no

> >>>>>>> Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> >>>>>>> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not

attached

> >>>>>>> to name, but to

> >>>>>>> form of

> >>>>>>> > > that clothing.

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > > Regards,

> >>>>>>> > > Rafal Gendarz

> >>>>>>> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> >>>>>>> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

<rafal@ ...>

> >>>>>>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/>. com

 

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa. com

> >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>>

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> > >

> >>>>>>> >

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> --

> >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha

> >>>>>

> >>>>> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> >>>>> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> >>>>> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> >>>>> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who

you

> >>>>> are and say what you feel because those who

mind

> >>>>> don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

> >>>>> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a

way.

> >>>>> Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> >>>>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest guest

Dear Sailesh,

 

What is your reference, or source of information regarding ancient

greeks and egyptians wearing unstiched clothes?

 

Forget about just documentry evidence, there is physical evidence in

terms of ancient clothes retrieved from burial sites. Not just

royality but even poor ancient egyptians wore stitched clothes.

 

I hardly think a purely " visual " comparison of what supposed pictures

look like between these 3 cultures warrants such a conclusion, or the

extrapolation that current sari dhoti clothing is non vedic.

 

Whether it is or isn't non vedic clothing, i don't know.

 

peace

charu

 

 

 

sohamsa , " Shailesh C Chadha " <scchadha wrote:

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya||

>

>

>

> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

>

>

>

> I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count.

>

>

>

> Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes - Dhoti or saree -

with the

> ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???

>

>

>

> They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely

> resembling the traditional dhoti - the only difference was the type, and

> direction, of the wrap.

>

>

>

> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

>

>

>

> These changed with the time, with the development of tailoring

skills, and

> with the local 'fashion'.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

> _____

>

> sohamsa [sohamsa ] On

Behalf Of

> Rafal Gendarz

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> sohamsa

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tijana,

>

> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I

> cant understand their arguments fully.

>

> It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to

do with

> VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Thank You for help.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) <rafal com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. <http://www.rohinaa.com> com

>

> nix_nixen napisa³(a):

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rafal,

> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous

> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

> history of sari.

> One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

> is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

> done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

> scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

> traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

> and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

> (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

> ornaments are important.

> Hope this helps in some way.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

> sohamsa@ <sohamsa%40> .com,

Rafal

> Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharat,

> >

> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

> culture

> > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

> fact

> > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how

> much

> > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

> those

> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

> were

> > born in India.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal@

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > >

> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam,

> isn't

> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

> robes

> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have

> all

> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > <starsuponme@>> wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > >

> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

> vedic

> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

> describe

> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

> tried to

> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

> form of

> > > that clothing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.

> <http://www.rohinaa.com> com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Dear Tarun,

 

About your last sentence asking about the colour orange....

 

Orange is not our vedic/sacred colour. Orange is the colour worn by

renouciates, by brahmcharis, by sanyaasis. That does not make them

vedic or sacred. Rishis of old if they were married did not wear orange.

 

The reason for orange is that this color supresses venus, supresses

ojas and therefore assists in giving up all that is associated with

venus/shukra. Sex,and rajas guna things and activites, al the things

that a celibate and/or sanyaasi has to give up.

 

 

peace

charu

 

sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Scholars,

>

> The Rishis were to wear different clothes, than the Kshatriya,

> The general people / farmer / traders, they were to wear different

clothes.

> The fabric used was different.

>

> The region, like the Kashi vishwanath 's traditional clothes or say

the Priest / Pujari wear different clothes than the south india.

> The Gujrati Clothes / Punjabi Clothes / Marathi Culture, Rajasthani

Culture. West Bengal, Kashmir.

> each state have different type of traditional clothing.

>

> The current Sari and Dhoti donot have direct relation with Vedic but

they have relation to the culture of the state.

> Sari is wore in different styles in each state.

> and the similar thing among all the rituals followed in india is the

COLOUR, and the colour can be termed as Vedic not the clothes.

> Nepal is pure Hindu Country and there culture is also different.

>

> Do Someone knows why Orange is our sacred / Vedic colour ??????

neither red, nor green nor white ...

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

>

>

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tijana,

>

> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras

that I cant understand their arguments fully.

>

> It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing

to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Thank You for help.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

> nix_nixen napisal(a):

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rafal,

> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous

> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

> history of sari.

> One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

> is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

> done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

> scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

> traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

> and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people

today

> (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

> ornaments are important.

> Hope this helps in some way.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

> sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharat,

> >

> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

> culture

> > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

> fact

> > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to

know how

> much

> > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

> those

> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

> were

> > born in India.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal@

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > >

> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam,

> isn't

> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

> robes

> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have

> all

> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > <starsuponme@>> wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > >

> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

> vedic

> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

> describe

> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

> tried to

> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

> form of

> > > that clothing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Dear Tarun,

 

what is your reference for this seemingly very clear cut definite answer?

 

peace

charu

 

sohamsa , " ~Tarun~ " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time.

> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

>

> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this is

helps.

>

> Regards,

>

> tarun

>

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tarun,

>

> Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas - clear question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

>

> 

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> cheer means cloth, not sari.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> -

> Rafal Gendarz

> sohamsa

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shailesh,

>

> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana

(Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is

over. Agree?

>

> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So

clothes also.

>

> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

>

> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

> Dear Rafal,

>

> Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - to

answer.

>

> To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

>

> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divine

knowledge - not human.

>

> Your question relates to human practices.

>

> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is

no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

>

> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally

refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra',

'adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing

- not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as

Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so

welll-known.

>

> Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual'

knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would

not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

>

> So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

>

> Regards,

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

>

> On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

>

> Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is

some form closest to Vedic?

>

> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

>

> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

>

> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

>

>

>

> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

>

>

>

> I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count.

>

>

>

> Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †" Dhoti

or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???

>

>

>

> They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched

cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the only

difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

>

>

>

> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

>

>

>

> These changed with the time, with the development of

tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Shailesh

>

>

>

> sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> sohamsa@ .com

> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

>

>

>

> hraum namah adityaya

>

> Dear Tijana,

>

> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from

the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

>

> It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS

have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

>

> Thank You for help.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

>

> nix_nixen napisał(a):

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rafal,

> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing

than we can

> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-

the famous

> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that

proves long

> history of sari.

> One of the important thing about sari and other

traditional clothes

> is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

Modifications were

> done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably

only Indian

> scholars of history of clothing and costume could say

what is

> traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a

specific message

> and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis

of people today

> (especially from the west) is accidental or

half-understood.

> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

clothes and

> ornaments are important.

> Hope this helps in some way.

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

> sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

<starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Bharat,

> >

> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are

connected to

> culture

> > obviously. Differentation based on role in society

doesnt negate

> fact

> > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I

wanted to know how

> much

> > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and

saris (esp

> those

> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy

for those who

> were

> > born in India .

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal@

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> >

> >

> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > >

> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > >

> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

pramana to Satyam,

> isn't

> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

prescribed ochre

> robes

> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and

Sanyasis have

> all

> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

different clothes.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > <starsuponme > wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > >

> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

debate with few

> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari

are not

> vedic

> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas

which

> describe

> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

Dhoti/Sari? I

> tried to

> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word

for Sari nor

> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name,

but to

> form of

> > > that clothing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

<http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> --

> Shailesh C Chadha

>

> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and

say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who

matter don't mind.

> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who

don't will find an EXCUSE.

> ____________ _________ _________ __

>

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Dear Bharat and Tijana,

 

Tijana is right.

Vishnu avatar Narsimha exploded out of a pillar when Prahlad was

challenged " is your god in everything? Is your god in this pillar?? " I

think we all know how the rest of this particular incidnece went and

concluded!

 

Om Namo Bhagvate Narsimha Devaya!

 

peace

charu

 

 

 

 

 

sohamsa , " nix_nixen " <nix_nixen wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Pranam Bharatji,

> I see your statement correct if we say that all resides with Lord as

> If everything that is resides in the Lord it can not be separated

> from Him which means that everything that is is the same with the

> Lord so He resides in everything also being everything.

> " The luminosity of Atman consists in the manifestation of all

> objects. " -tat tvam asi

> (AdiShankara)

> Warm regards,

> Tijana

>

>

> sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

> <astrologyhindu@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Tijana

> > Spirit does not reside in everything. The correct statement is -

> Everything

> > that is resides in the Lord (spirit, if you may call it).

> >

> > The knower of the above isn't going to ask about Vedic clothes.

> However, a

> > person who more and more identifies with this knowledge that all

> that is is

> > the Lord, because deeply sensitive. For him/her the entireity is an

> > expression of his real Self. To cause pain to anything is like

> causing pain

> > to oneself. It is for this reason, the least painful becomes

> Sattwic and

> > more spiritual.

> >

> > This does not mean that people who wear cotton are spiritual. Just

> that

> > people who tend to understand the truth of the first statement,

> tend to

> > cause least harm.

> >

> > For the same reason fruits are most Sattwic, since they cause the

> least

> > harm. So on and so forth.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > On 7/6/07, nix_nixen <nix_nixen@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > Dear memebers of the thread,

> > > Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes under the

> > > influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in scriptures

> something

> > > universal must be found.

> > > I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic must be

> universal,

> > > if not than it`s something else.

> > > I don`t see how spirituality is different from any segment of

> life as

> > > spirit resides in everything or?

> > > One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit is thread, so

> > > connection exist. The rest is for the experts to think about.

> > > Warm regards,

> > > Tijana

> > >

> > >

> > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

> 40>, " ~Tarun~ " <

> > > tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Anand ji,

> > > >

> > > > It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made

> cloth :-)

> > > >

> > > > as Bharat ji said

> > > > " " If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual

> cloth -

> > > then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to

> anyone.

> > > Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk which

> comes

> > > from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just

> decide

> > > which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any

> living

> > > organism. " "

> > > >

> > > > The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be used in

> > > those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now call

> > > them saree actually.

> > > >

> > > > Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that , do he

> > > want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to wear

> in

> > > Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

> > > >

> > > > If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more detailed,

> but

> > > Sari is not the exact term.

> > > > Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age.

> > > > as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

> > > >

> > > > " The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally refer

> > > to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc.

> > > > " "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Tarun

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Anand Ravi

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Om Namah Shivaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tarun, Namaste

> > > >

> > > > Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for

> > > mummification too. Please correct me if

> > > > Iam wrong.

> > > >

> > > > In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree for

> > > some special occation is tied in a specific

> > > > way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic times.

> > > I remember they tied my dothi

> > > > to in this way during Upanayanam.

> > > >

> > > > Rgds

> > > > Anand

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > >

> > > > The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

> > > that time.

> > > > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> > > > they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> > > >

> > > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

> > > this is helps.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > tarun

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tarun,

> > > >

> > > > Yes, what is the difference between current and those

> > > described in Vedas - clear question.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal@

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > >

> > > > cheer means cloth, not sari.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Tarun

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shailesh,

> > > >

> > > > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-

> > > Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem is

> over.

> > > Agree?

> > > >

> > > > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans.

> > > So clothes also.

> > > >

> > > > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal@

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > >

> > > > Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

> > > to answer.

> > > >

> > > > To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

> > > >

> > > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

> > > divine knowledge - not human.

> > > >

> > > > Your question relates to human practices.

> > > >

> > > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

> > > written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

> there is

> > > no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

> > > >

> > > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> > > generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not

> recall

> > > any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or

> knowledge

> > > is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana'

> > > episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

> > > >

> > > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas

> > > represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or

> the 'cultural'

> > > knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS

> > > interchangeably.

> > > >

> > > > So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Shailesh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

> > > >

> > > > Tarun: So which state of India represents closest

> > > form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

> > > >

> > > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

> > > count.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †"

> > > Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

> > > clothes???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore

> > > unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti †" the

> > > only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > These changed with the time, with the development

> > > of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Shailesh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

> > > . com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > >

> > > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious

> > > from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

> > > >

> > > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

> > > DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

> > > >

> > > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC

> > > CLOTHING.

> > > >

> > > > Thank You for help.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > >

> > > > nix_nixen napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

> > > clothing than we can

> > > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

> > > Mahabharata- the famous

> > > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

> > > that proves long

> > > > history of sari.

> > > > One of the important thing about sari and other

> > > traditional clothes

> > > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

> > > Modifications were

> > > > done with coming of the Muslims and English.

> > > Probably only Indian

> > > > scholars of history of clothing and costume could

> > > say what is

> > > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> > > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together

> > > a specific message

> > > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and

> > > dhotis of people today

> > > > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-

> > > understood.

> > > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

> > > clothes and

> > > > ornaments are important.

> > > > Hope this helps in some way.

> > > > Warm regards,

> > > > Tijana

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

> > > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > >

> > > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes

> > > are connected to

> > > > culture

> > > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in

> > > society doesnt negate

> > > > fact

> > > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not.

> > > I wanted to know how

> > > > much

> > > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis

> > > and saris (esp

> > > > those

> > > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very

> > > easy for those who

> > > > were

> > > > > born in India .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

> > > pramana to Satyam,

> > > > isn't

> > > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

> > > prescribed ochre

> > > > robes

> > > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men

> > > and Sanyasis have

> > > > all

> > > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

> > > different clothes.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@

> > > wp.pl

> > > > > > < starsuponme > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

> > > debate with few

> > > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and

> > > sari are not

> > > > vedic

> > > > > > clothes. Could You give me some classical

> > > slokas which

> > > > describe

> > > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

> > > Dhoti/Sari? I

> > > > tried to

> > > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit

> > > word for Sari nor

> > > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to

> > > name, but to

> > > > form of

> > > > > > that clothing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>

> > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

> > > http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --

> > > > Shailesh C Chadha

> > > >

> > > > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> > > > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> > > > Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> > > > (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are

> > > and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and

> those

> > > who matter don't mind.

> > > > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way.

> > > Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Om Gurave Namah

Dear Bharat,

Thank you for your kind words.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

<astrologyhindu wrote:

>

> Namaste Tijana

> I agree it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to fix the

time of

> " Knowledge " (Vedas). I guess for history purposes and purpose of the

> discussion on Vedic Clothes, we can think of it as the time period

when Sri

> Veda Vyasa compiled the Vedas. The time before him was also Vedic

and that

> time continues for many now too. This is difficult to grasp for

most. So for

> " practical " purposes time when Upanishads were taught to students

desiring

> moksha, and in a general sense the purpose of the Vedas was not

forgotten as

> it is now, we can call it the Vedic time period.

>

> Ofcourse Vedas are universal as Sat can never be Asat and Vedas are

the

> pramana.

>

>

> It is good to know that you are studying this subject. With your

thinking

> and calibre, I think you should study it seriously, if not doing so

already,

> under the guidance of an able Gurudev.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

> On 7/7/07, nix_nixen <nix_nixen wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Dear Bharatji,

> > what do you mean by-in the time of the Vedas? The time when they

were

> > writed down?

> > Please correct me on this if you think it wrong-Vedas as an

> > expression of the universal knowledge don`t have beginning. What

is

> > subdued to time is our understanding of that knowledge and it is

> > changing from age to age. The essence of the Veda remains the

same.

> > It is we who are reading it and understanding it different.

> > This was my point when i said that Vedic must be universal as if

not

> > then it falls into the maya of historic experience.

> > Warm regards,

> > Tijana

> >

> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, Rafal

Gendarz

> > <starsuponme@> wrote:

> > >

> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > >

> > > Dear Bharat,

> > >

> > > #1 Yes, right

> > >

> > > #2 Yes, existence of main point dont exclude other points

> > (detailed). I

> > > dont feel this type of discussion as conclusive, so I know what

You

> > > mean. If one identify oneself with devotee of God then His

service

> > can

> > > be on higher level - that was the sense of feeling.

> > >

> > > #3 " Whether some were prescribed for a particular reason or

not " -

> > That

> > > is the question!

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > email: rafal@

> >

> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > >

> > >

> > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > #1 If a clothing is specified in the Vedas, then, it would

> > qualify as

> > > > Vedic. It wouldn't render the simple clothing based on " least

> > harm

> > > > principle " as unvedic.

> > > >

> > > > #2 I wouldn't categorize. The main point is whether or not a

> > person is

> > > > understanding the Vedas, rather than wearing a particular

dress.

> > I

> > > > have been to many ashrams and they all have a distinct Indian

> > dress. I

> > > > personally do not to the idea of using a dress to

feel

> > > > spiritual. Ofcourse, if one feels spiritual rather than " be

> > spiritual "

> > > > then, it is their choice.

> > > >

> > > > #3 I meant a historian shall be able to tell you what kind of

> > clothes

> > > > were prevalent at the time of the Vedas. The next step would

be

> > to ask

> > > > different people on why such clothes were prevalent. Whether

some

> > were

> > > > prescribed for a particular reason or not.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > Bharat

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On 7/7/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > > <starsuponme@>> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >

> > > > Dear Bharatji,

> > > >

> > > > Thank You.

> > > >

> > > > #1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in

> > Vedas/Puranas

> > > > it would be Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at

> > > > least in temple with good standarts) You must have dhoti, as

> > > > stiched clothing is prohibited for Deity worship. So its rule

> > of

> > > > the Vedas or Tantras (Pancaratra Pradipika). So there must be

> > some

> > > > philosophy behind it which I thought we can find together

> > > >

> > > > #2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt

> > mean

> > > > that there is no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean

> > that

> > > > critic is too hasty and shallow. Im sure we can use phrase

> > Vedic

> > > > Clothing.

> > > >

> > > > There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it

> > > > mean spiritual people must wear it also?

> > > >

> > > > I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris

> > their

> > > > conciousness is better as they identify themselves with

> > devotees

> > > > of God.

> > > >

> > > > #3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want

> > to

> > > > know what is the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all

> > > > times, or for all times.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisał(a):

> > > >

> > > >> Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Truly speaking, there is no such thing as a specified " Vedic

> > > >> Dress " . Let me attempt to answer your questions:

> > > >>

> > > >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> > > >> When Vedic principles are followed, then, it is called

> > Vedic. For

> > > >> example, if you follow the principles of Sri Bhagavad Gita or

> > > >> Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes Vedic

> > > >> Management. Management may not be directly given in the

> > Vedas.

> > > >>

> > > >> If something is given in the Vedas, then, too it is surely

> > > >> Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out the knowledge

> > > >> contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for

> > > >> Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be " Vedic " . Since

> > > >> Astrology follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go

> > > >> against it, it can be called Vedic.

> > > >>

> > > >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> > > >> Not necessary to specify something as Vedic Clothing, then,

> > many

> > > >> strangely orthodox people will start humiliating people by

> > > >> calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a

> > > >> categorization should not be done. Generally, clothing worn

> > by

> > > >> those spiritual is simple, made from things that cause least

> > harm

> > > >> to anyone.

> > > >>

> > > >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> > > >> It is a redundant question now in light of the above. There

> > could

> > > >> be a question what type of clothing was prevalent at the

> > time of

> > > >> the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian.

> > > >>

> > > >> Thanks and Regards

> > > >> Bharat

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > >> <starsuponme@>> wrote:

> > > >>

> > > >> *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>

> > > >> Dear Bharatji & others,

> > > >>

> > > >> Thank You.

> > > >>

> > > >> Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon

> > Swamis.

> > > >> One is proclaiming that there is no such concept as Vedic

> > > >> Clothing, while the other say that definitely Dhoti and

> > Sari

> > > >> are Vedic because Hero'es of Sastras were wearing this

> > kind

> > > >> of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should also wear it,

> > because

> > > >> it helps in spiritual culture/conciousnes s.

> > > >>

> > > >> So:

> > > >>

> > > >> #1 What it means that something is Vedic?

> > > >>

> > > >> #2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

> > > >>

> > > >> #3 What means Vedic clothing?

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Regards,

> > > >> Rafal Gendarz

> > > >> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Rafal,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

> > stiching

> > > >>> that time.

> > > >>> Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> > > >>> they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I

> > hope

> > > >>> this is helps.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Regards,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> tarun

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> -

> > > >>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@>

> > > >>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > >>> <sohamsa <sohamsa%40>>

> > > >>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> > > >>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >>>

> > > >>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Dear Tarun,

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Yes, what is the difference between current and

> > those

> > > >>> described in Vedas - clear question.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Regards,

> > > >>> Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > >>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> Dear Rafal,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> cheer means cloth, not sari.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Tarun

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> -

> > > >>>> ** Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@>

> > > >>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > >>>> <sohamsa <sohamsa%

40>>

> > > >>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> > > >>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Dear Shailesh,

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or

> > Purana

> > > >>>> (Panca-Veda) . If we could get accurate

> > description

> > > >>>> then our problem is over. Agree?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers

> > to

> > > >>>> humans. So clothes also.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is

> > question.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Regards,

> > > >>>> Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>

> > > >>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > >>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > *

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> **

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Dear Rafal,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Your question is very difficult - almost

> > > >>>>> impossible - to answer.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> To start with, we do not know what is

> > the 'VEDIC

> > > >>>>> TIME'.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

> > > >>>>> represent divine knowledge - not human.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Your question relates to human practices.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

> > > >>>>> were no written books or pictorial

> > representations

> > > >>>>> at that time. So, there is no 'evidence' of

> > the

> > > >>>>> clothing used at that time.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> > > >>>>> generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > >>>>>

> > like 'angavastra' , 'kativastra' , 'adhovastra' ,

> > > >>>>> etc. I do not recall any mention of the type

> > of

> > > >>>>> clothing - not that my stdies or knowledge is

> > all

> > > >>>>> that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned,

> > > >>>>> 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so

> > > >>>>> welll-known.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

> > > >>>>> 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the

> > > >>>>> 'cultural' knowledge. And, I would not use the

> > > >>>>> terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> So, the question may remain unresolved;

> > > >>>>> unfortunately.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> /Shailesh ///

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> On 7/6/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > > >>>>> <starsuponme@>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji,

> > Tarunji,

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Tarun: So which state of India represents

> > > >>>>> closest form? Is some form closest to

> > Vedic?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic

> > Clothing?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > >>>>> <rafal@>

> > > >>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > >>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>> *|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

> > Naraayanaaya| | *

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> * *

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I am afraid your ISKON friends are

> > correct on

> > > >>>>>> this count.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Have you compared the so called Vedic

> > clothes

> > > >>>>>> �€ " Dhoti or saree �€ " with the ancient

> > Egyptian,

> > > >>>>>> Greece or even Roman clothes???

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> They all seem so similar - all of them

> > wore

> > > >>>>>> unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the

> > > >>>>>> traditional dhoti �€ " the only

> > difference was

> > > >>>>>> the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> These changed with the time, with the

> > > >>>>>> development of tailoring skills, and

> > with the

> > > >>>>>> local 'fashion'.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> /Shailesh ///

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> **sohamsa@ .com

> > > >>>>>> [sohamsa] *On

> > Behalf

> > > >>>>>> Of *Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> > > >>>>>> *To:* sohamsa@ .com

> > > >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Re: Vedic

> > Clothes

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> *hraum namah adityaya *

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Dear Tijana,

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so

> > > >>>>>> obvious from the sastras that I cant

> > > >>>>>> understand their arguments fully.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> It seems that they say that CURRENT

> > SARIS AND

> > > >>>>>> DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC

> > CLOTHING.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Therefore wanted to grasp information

> > about

> > > >>>>>> VEDIC CLOTHING.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Thank You for help.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Regards,

> > > >>>>>> Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>>>> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>>>>> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > >>>>>> <rafal@>

> > > >>>>>> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > >>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> nix_nixen napisał(a):

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> Om Gurave Namah

> > > >>>>>>> Dear Rafal,

> > > >>>>>>> i`m sure there`s much more on

> > traditional

> > > >>>>>>> clothing than we can

> > > >>>>>>> imagine. There`s a mention of sari in

> > the

> > > >>>>>>> Mahabharata- the famous

> > > >>>>>>> story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s

> > > >>>>>>> virtue that proves long

> > > >>>>>>> history of sari.

> > > >>>>>>> One of the important thing about sari

> > and

> > > >>>>>>> other traditional clothes

> > > >>>>>>> is believing that the unstitched fabric

> > is

> > > >>>>>>> pure. Modifications were

> > > >>>>>>> done with coming of the Muslims and

> > English.

> > > >>>>>>> Probably only Indian

> > > >>>>>>> scholars of history of clothing and

> > costume

> > > >>>>>>> could say what is

> > > >>>>>>> traditional in clothes we are seeing

> > today.

> > > >>>>>>> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring

> > > >>>>>>> together a specific message

> > > >>>>>>> and honestly i think that choice of

> > saris

> > > >>>>>>> and dhotis of people today

> > > >>>>>>> (especially from the west) is

> > accidental or

> > > >>>>>>> half-understood.

> > > >>>>>>> As for Devatas my guess is that the

> > color of

> > > >>>>>>> the clothes and

> > > >>>>>>> ornaments are important.

> > > >>>>>>> Hope this helps in some way.

> > > >>>>>>> Warm regards,

> > > >>>>>>> Tijana

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>>> sohamsa@ .com

> > > >>>>>>> <sohamsa% <sohamsa%25>40>,

> > Rafal

> > > >>>>>>> Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> > Dear Bharat,

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture.

> > > >>>>>>> Clothes are connected to

> > > >>>>>>> culture

> > > >>>>>>> > obviously. Differentation based on

> > role in

> > > >>>>>>> society doesnt negate

> > > >>>>>>> fact

> > > >>>>>>> > that we can say some clothing is

> > Vedic or

> > > >>>>>>> not. I wanted to know how

> > > >>>>>>> much

> > > >>>>>>> > Devatas clothes are connected to

> > current

> > > >>>>>>> dhotis and saris (esp

> > > >>>>>>> those

> > > >>>>>>> > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would

> > be

> > > >>>>>>> very easy for those who

> > > >>>>>>> were

> > > >>>>>>> > born in India .

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> > Regards,

> > > >>>>>>> > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>>>>> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>>>>>> > email: rafal@

> > > >>>>>>> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> > > >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/> . com

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>> > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one.

> > Veda as

> > > >>>>>>> a pramana to Satyam,

> > > >>>>>>> isn't

> > > >>>>>>> > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi

> > > >>>>>>> Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

> > > >>>>>>> robes

> > > >>>>>>> > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings,

> > learned

> > > >>>>>>> men and Sanyasis have

> > > >>>>>>> all

> > > >>>>>>> > > been the knowers of the Truth. They

> > all

> > > >>>>>>> wore different clothes.

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > >>>>>>> > > Bharat

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz*

> > <starsuponme@

> > > >>>>>>> wp.pl

> > > >>>>>>> > > <starsuponme

> > > >>>>>>> <starsuponme>> wrote:

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Could you help me with one issue? I

> > have

> > > >>>>>>> one debate with few

> > > >>>>>>> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that

> > dhoti

> > > >>>>>>> and sari are not

> > > >>>>>>> vedic

> > > >>>>>>> > > clothes. Could You give me some

> > classical

> > > >>>>>>> slokas which

> > > >>>>>>> describe

> > > >>>>>>> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women

> > > >>>>>>> wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

> > > >>>>>>> tried to

> > > >>>>>>> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no

> > > >>>>>>> Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> > > >>>>>>> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not

> > attached

> > > >>>>>>> to name, but to

> > > >>>>>>> form of

> > > >>>>>>> > > that clothing.

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > > Regards,

> > > >>>>>>> > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > >>>>>>> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > >>>>>>> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > <rafal@ ...>

> > > >>>>>>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

> > > >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa/>. com

> > > >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa. com

> > > >>>>>>> <http://www.rohinaa.com/>>

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> > >

> > > >>>>>>> >

> > > >>>>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> --

> > > >>>>> Shailesh C Chadha

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> > > >>>>> Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> > > >>>>> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> > > >>>>> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> > > >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who

> > you

> > > >>>>> are and say what you feel because those who

> > mind

> > > >>>>> don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

> > > >>>>> - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a

> > way.

> > > >>>>> Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> > > >>>>> ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > >>>>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Dear Charu,

 

I guess reading shastra's and interpretation is a part of SJC parampara, and because Rafal was not able to get the answer in parampara's library he tried to ask that on forum.

 

So i think that Vedic Clothing is to be a pure clothing to worship god.

 

All the sciences or vedas are for human welfare not for telling them what to wear.

 

if you say in Himalayas there was different clothing culture according to vedas. ?? or if one is feeling cold and he should not wear anything protective or thik as not specified in vedas ??

 

if one is in desert and dont get shivering winters than wht ??

 

So Vedas can never do partial contents abt such thing. They say to maintain pureity in clothing , in whatever you wear.

 

you can see Boddha Dharm followers, wht they wear ? They just cover around unstiched clothes on their body.

 

Yes food habits are specific as it says real Dharm Follower should not take non-vegeterian food and those who do take alcohal and do take non-vegeterian food are not Dharmic.

 

Regards

 

Tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

charu2250

sohamsa

Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:22 AM

Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

Dear Sailesh,What is your reference, or source of information regarding ancientgreeks and egyptians wearing unstiched clothes?Forget about just documentry evidence, there is physical evidence interms of ancient clothes retrieved from burial sites. Not justroyality but even poor ancient egyptians wore stitched clothes.I hardly think a purely "visual" comparison of what supposed pictureslook like between these 3 cultures warrants such a conclusion, or theextrapolation that current sari dhoti clothing is non vedic.Whether it is or isn't non vedic clothing, i don't know.peacecharusohamsa , "Shailesh C Chadha" <scchadha wrote:>> || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya||> > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana,> > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count.> > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes - Dhoti or saree -with the> ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???> > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched cloths, loosely> resembling the traditional dhoti - the only difference was the type, and> direction, of the wrap.> > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans.> > > > These changed with the time, with the development of tailoringskills, and> with the local 'fashion'.> > > > Regards,> > > > Shailesh > > > > _____ > > sohamsa [sohamsa ] OnBehalf Of> Rafal Gendarz> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM> sohamsa > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes> > > > hraum namah adityaya> > Dear Tijana,> > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I> cant understand their arguments fully.> > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing todo with> VEDIC CLOTHING. > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.> > Thank You for help.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) <rafal com> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. <http://www.rohinaa.com> com> > nix_nixen napisa³(a): > > Om Gurave Namah> Dear Rafal,> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long > history of sari.> One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were > done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian > scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message > and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and > ornaments are important.> Hope this helps in some way. > Warm regards,> Tijana > > sohamsa@ <sohamsa%40> .com,Rafal> Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> > > > Dear Bharat,> > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to > culture > > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate > fact > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how > much > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp > those > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who > were > > born in India.> > > > > > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal@> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> > >> > > Namaste Sri Rafal> > >> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, > isn't > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre > robes > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have > all > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> > >> > > Thanks and Regards> > > Bharat> > >> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > > <starsuponme@>> wrote:> > >> > > *hraum namah adityaya*> > >> > > Dear Jyotishas,> > >> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not > vedic> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which > describe> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I > tried to> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to > form of> > > that clothing.> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > > Rafal Gendarz> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.> <http://www.rohinaa.com> com>> > >> > >> > >> >>

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|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal,

We have absolutely NO authoritative information about the clothings

of the ancients; the excavated statues, etc also represent artistic

understanding, or expression of the time when these statues, etc. were

executed.

 

One more small bit of information – the die-hard

traditionalists insist on performing pujas without any clothes; hence the unstitched

‘wraps’ – dhoti, etc – are only a compromise on account

of social norms.

 

The basic idea seems to be purity and simplicity – more clothing,

and more stitching denotes more materialism.

 

If I come across any more relevant information, I will pass it on.

    

 

Regards,

Shailesh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

sohamsa [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:34

PM

sohamsa

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji,

 

Thank You.

 

#1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in Vedas/Puranas it would be

Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at least in temple with good

standarts) You must have dhoti, as stiched clothing is prohibited for Deity

worship. So its rule of the Vedas or Tantras (Pancaratra Pradipika). So there

must be some philosophy behind it which I thought we can find together

 

#2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt mean that there is

no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean that critic is too hasty and

shallow. Im sure we can use phrase Vedic Clothing.

 

There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it mean spiritual

people must wear it also?

 

I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris their conciousness

is better as they identify themselves with devotees of God.

 

#3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want to know what is

the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all times, or for all times.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath

Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a):

 

 

Namaste

Sri Rafal

 

 

 

 

Truly speaking, there is no such thing

as a specified " Vedic Dress " . Let me attempt to answer your

questions:

 

 

 

 

 

#1 What it means that something is Vedic?

 

 

When Vedic principles are followed,

then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you follow the principles of Sri

Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes Vedic

Management. Management may not be directly given in the Vedas.

 

 

 

 

 

If something is given in the Vedas,

then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out the

knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for

Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be " Vedic " . Since Astrology

follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go against it, it can be called

Vedic.

 

 

 

 

 

#2 Is there

something like Vedic Clothing?

 

 

Not necessary to specify something as

Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox people will start humiliating

people by calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a categorization

should not be done. Generally, clothing worn by those spiritual is simple, made

from things that cause least harm to anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

It is a redundant question now in light

of the above. There could be a question what type of clothing was prevalent at the

time of the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

 

 

Bharat

 

 

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme (AT) wp (DOT) pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji

& others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is proclaiming

that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the other say that

definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of Sastras were wearing

this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should also wear it, because it helps

in spiritual culture/conciousness.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

 

Sri Jagannath

Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

 

 

 

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

 

 

 

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

stiching that time.

 

 

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

 

 

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

 

 

 

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body.

I hope this is helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

Rafal

Gendarz

 

 

To:

sohamsa@ .com

 

 

Sent:

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

 

 

Subject:

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in Vedas -

clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisa³(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

 

 

 

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

Tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

Rafal

Gendarz

 

 

To:

sohamsa@ .com

 

 

Sent:

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

 

 

Subject:

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we could

get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

Dear Rafal,

 

Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

to answer.

 

 

 

 

 

To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

 

 

 

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

divine knowledge - not human.

 

 

 

 

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is no

'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

 

 

 

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' , 'kativastra'

, 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing - not

that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned,

'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I

would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

 

 

 

 

So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme@

wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India

represents closest form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

count.

Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes –

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes???

They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstiched

cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference

was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

These changed with the time, with the development of

tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

Regards,

Shailesh

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Rafal

Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that I cant

understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do with

VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath

Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisa³(a):

 

 

Om

Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India

..

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center

Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

(Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you feel

because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will find an

EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Shaileshji,

 

Thank You.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo

Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal,

We have absolutely NO authoritative information about the

clothings

of the ancients; the excavated statues, etc also represent artistic

understanding, or expression of the time when these statues, etc. were

executed.

 

One more small bit of information – the die-hard

traditionalists insist on performing pujas without any clothes; hence

the unstitched

‘wraps’ – dhoti, etc – are only a compromise on account

of social norms.

 

The basic idea seems to be purity and simplicity – more

clothing,

and more stitching denotes more materialism.

 

If I come across any more relevant information, I will

pass it on.

    

 

Regards,

Shailesh

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa] On

Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

Saturday, July 07, 2007 5:34

PM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji,

 

Thank You.

 

#1 Yes, so when we find fragments about clothing in Vedas/Puranas it

would be

Vedic Clothing. For example for Deity Worship (at least in temple with

good

standarts) You must have dhoti, as stiched clothing is prohibited for

Deity

worship. So its rule of the Vedas or Tantras (Pancaratra Pradipika). So

there

must be some philosophy behind it which I thought we can find together

 

#2 If someone would categorize based on clothing, it doesnt mean that

there is

no such thing like Vedic clothing, it just mean that critic is too

hasty and

shallow. Im sure we can use phrase Vedic Clothing.

 

There is objection: If the Devas wears Dhoti and Sari, does it mean

spiritual

people must wear it also?

 

I recognize that people in west, if wear this Dhotis, Saris their

conciousness

is better as they identify themselves with devotees of God.

 

#3 I dont care about wearing in some time in history, I want to know

what is

the standart of Veda/Purana about clothing in all times, or for all

times.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

 

 

Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa³(a):

 

 

Namaste

Sri Rafal

 

 

 

 

Truly speaking, there is no such thing

as a specified "Vedic Dress". Let me attempt to answer your

questions:

 

 

 

 

 

#1 What it means that something is Vedic?

 

 

When Vedic principles are followed,

then, it is called Vedic. For example, if you follow the principles of

Sri

Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads and apply it to Management, it becomes

Vedic

Management. Management may not be directly given in the Vedas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If something is given in the Vedas,

then, too it is surely Vedic. Vedic relates to a way of life born out

the

knowledge contained in the Vedas. That is why, it is not important for

Astrology to be contained in the Vedas to be "Vedic". Since Astrology

follows the know-how of the Vedas and does not go against it, it can be

called

Vedic. 

 

 

 

 

 

#2 Is there

something like Vedic Clothing?

 

 

Not necessary to specify something as

Vedic Clothing, then, many strangely orthodox people will start

humiliating

people by calling them non-vedic on the basis of a dress. Such a

categorization

should not be done. Generally, clothing worn by those spiritual is

simple, made

from things that cause least harm to anyone. 

 

 

 

 

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

It is a redundant question now in light

of the above. There could be a question what type of clothing was

prevalent at the

time of the Vedas. For that you need to ask a historian. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks and Regards

 

 

Bharat

 

 

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme@

wp.pl>

wrote:

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Bharatji

& others,

 

Thank You.

 

Discussion was arised as debate between two Iskcon Swamis. One is

proclaiming

that there is no such concept as Vedic Clothing, while the other say

that

definitely Dhoti and Sari are Vedic because Hero'es of Sastras were

wearing

this kind of clothes, so Iskcon devotees should also wear it, because

it helps

in spiritual culture/conciousnes s.

 

So:

 

#1 What it means that something is Vedic?

 

#2 Is there something like Vedic Clothing?

 

#3 What means Vedic clothing?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

 

 

 

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Tarun~ napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

 

 

 

 

The clear answer is that there was no such kind of

stiching that time.

 

 

Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

 

 

 

they were to use cotton made fabrics.

 

 

 

 

 

They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body.

I hope this is helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

Rafal

Gendarz

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com

 

 

 

Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

 

 

 

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Tarun,

 

Yes, what is the difference between current and those described in

Vedas -

clear question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

~Tarun~ napisa³(a):

 

 

 

Dear Rafal,

 

 

 

 

 

cheer means cloth, not sari.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

 

Tarun

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

 

 

 

Rafal

Gendarz

 

 

 

sohamsa@ .com

 

 

 

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

 

 

 

Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Shailesh,

 

#1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-Veda) . If we

could

get accurate description then our problem is over. Agree?

 

#2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. So clothes

also.

 

#3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh Chadha napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

 

Dear Rafal,

 

Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible -

to answer.

 

 

 

 

 

To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC

TIME'.

 

 

 

 

 

To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent

divine knowledge - not human.

 

 

 

 

 

Your question relates to human practices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no

written books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there is

no

'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

 

 

 

 

 

The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra' ,

'kativastra'

, 'adhovastra' , etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of

clothing - not

that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana

mentioned,

'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent

'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge.

And, I

would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably.

 

 

 

 

 

So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

On 7/6/07, Rafal

Gendarz <starsuponme@

wp.pl> wrote:

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

 

Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

 

Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Is some form

closest to Vedic?

 

Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

 

Shailesh C Chadha napisa³(a):

 

 

 

 

 

 

|| Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya|

|

 

Dear Rafal & Tijana,

 

I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on

this

count.

 

Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes

Dhoti or saree – with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman

clothes???

 

They all seem so similar - all of them wore

unstiched

cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti – the only difference

was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

 

So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

 

 

These changed with the time, with the

development of

tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

 

Regards,

 

Shailesh

 

 

sohamsa@

..com [sohamsa@

. com] On Behalf Of Rafal

Gendarz

Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35

AM

sohamsa@ .com

Re: Re: Vedic

Clothes

 

 

 

 

 

hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Tijana,

 

Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastras that

I cant

understand their arguments fully.

 

It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothing to do

with

VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.

 

Thank You for help.

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com

 

nix_nixen napisa³(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Rafal,

i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can

imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata- the famous

story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long

history of sari.

One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes

is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were

done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian

scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is

traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message

and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of people today

(especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.

As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and

ornaments are important.

Hope this helps in some way.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa@

..com, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Bharat,

>

> Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to

culture

> obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate

fact

> that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted to know

how

much

> Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp

those

> worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who

were

> born in India .

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa

.. com

>

>

> Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> >

> > Namaste Sri Rafal

> >

> > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to

Satyam,

isn't

> > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre

 

robes

> > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis

have

all

> > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different

clothes.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

> >

> > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl

> > <starsuponme >

wrote:

> >

> > *hraum namah adityaya*

> >

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> >

> > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few

> > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not

vedic

> > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which

describe

> > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I

tried to

> > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari

nor

> > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to

form of

> > that clothing.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> > Rafal Gendarz

> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@

....>

> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.

com <http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> >

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Shailesh C Chadha

 

#18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

      (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are and say what you

feel

because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

- Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those who don't will

find an

EXCUSE.

____________ _________ _________ __

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dear Charu,

 

I guess you yourself are confused that Orange / Bhagwa is not our sacred colour.

 

Well , one more thing that then why Red is colour in china and Green in middle-east.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

 

-

charu2250

sohamsa

Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:30 AM

Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

Dear Tarun,About your last sentence asking about the colour orange....Orange is not our vedic/sacred colour. Orange is the colour worn byrenouciates, by brahmcharis, by sanyaasis. That does not make themvedic or sacred. Rishis of old if they were married did not wear orange.The reason for orange is that this color supresses venus, supressesojas and therefore assists in giving up all that is associated withvenus/shukra. Sex,and rajas guna things and activites, al the thingsthat a celibate and/or sanyaasi has to give up.peacecharu sohamsa , "~Tarun~" <tarun.virgo wrote:>> Dear Scholars,> > The Rishis were to wear different clothes, than the Kshatriya, > The general people / farmer / traders, they were to wear differentclothes. > The fabric used was different.> > The region, like the Kashi vishwanath 's traditional clothes or saythe Priest / Pujari wear different clothes than the south india.> The Gujrati Clothes / Punjabi Clothes / Marathi Culture, RajasthaniCulture. West Bengal, Kashmir. > each state have different type of traditional clothing. > > The current Sari and Dhoti donot have direct relation with Vedic butthey have relation to the culture of the state.> Sari is wore in different styles in each state. > and the similar thing among all the rituals followed in india is theCOLOUR, and the colour can be termed as Vedic not the clothes.> Nepal is pure Hindu Country and there culture is also different.> > Do Someone knows why Orange is our sacred / Vedic colour ??????neither red, nor green nor white ...> > Regards,> > Tarun> > > > > - > Rafal Gendarz > sohamsa > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes> > > hraum namah adityaya> > Dear Tijana,> > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious from the sastrasthat I cant understand their arguments fully.> > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIS have nothingto do with VEDIC CLOTHING. > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.> > Thank You for help.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > nix_nixen napisal(a): > > Om Gurave Namah> Dear Rafal,> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothing than we can > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue that proves long > history of sari.> One of the important thing about sari and other traditional clothes > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure. Modifications were > done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probably only Indian > scholars of history of clothing and costume could say what is > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together a specific message > and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotis of peopletoday > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-understood.> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the clothes and > ornaments are important.> Hope this helps in some way. > Warm regards,> Tijana > > sohamsa , Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@> wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya*> > > > Dear Bharat,> > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes are connected to > culture > > obviously. Differentation based on role in society doesnt negate > fact > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. I wanted toknow how > much > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis and saris (esp > those > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easy for those who > were > > born in India.> > > > > > Regards,> > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal@> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> > >> > > Namaste Sri Rafal> > >> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a pramana to Satyam, > isn't > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya prescribed ochre > robes > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men and Sanyasis have > all > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore different clothes.> > >> > > Thanks and Regards> > > Bharat> > >> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > > <starsuponme@>> wrote:> > >> > > *hraum namah adityaya*> > >> > > Dear Jyotishas,> > >> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not > vedic> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokas which > describe> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I > tried to> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor> > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name, but to > form of> > > that clothing.> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > > Rafal Gendarz> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <http://www.rohinaa.com>> > >> > >> > >> >>

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Hello Charu,

 

I donot have any reference but do u have reference to show the Clothes defined, and if you donot have anything to prove according to Vedas then my answer is more authentic.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

-

charu2250

sohamsa

Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:33 AM

Re: Vedic Clothes

 

 

Dear Tarun,what is your reference for this seemingly very clear cut definite answer?peacecharusohamsa , "~Tarun~" <tarun.virgo wrote:>> Dear Rafal,> > The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching that time. > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done> they were to use cotton made fabrics. > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope this ishelps.> > Regards,> > tarun> > > - > Rafal Gendarz > sohamsa > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes> > > hraum namah adityaya> > Dear Tarun,> > Yes, what is the difference between current and those described inVedas - clear question.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > > ~Tarun~ napisaÅ‚(a): > >  > > Dear Rafal,> > cheer means cloth, not sari.> > Regards,> > Tarun> > - > Rafal Gendarz > sohamsa > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes> > > hraum namah adityaya> > Dear Shailesh,> > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana(Panca-Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem isover. Agree?> > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans. Soclothes also.> > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com> > > Shailesh Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | > > > Dear Rafal, > > Your question is very difficult - almost impossible - toanswer. > > To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'. > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent divineknowledge - not human. > > Your question relates to human practices. > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were nowritten books or pictorial representations at that time. So, there isno 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time. > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generallyrefer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths', like 'angavastra', 'kativastra','adhovastra', etc. I do not recall any mention of the type of clothing- not that my stdies or knowledge is all that exhaustive. But asTijana mentioned, 'cheera-harana' episode from Mahabharata is sowelll-known. > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas represent 'spiritual'knowledge, not the 'social' or the 'cultural' knowledge. And, I wouldnot use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS interchangeably. > > So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately. > > Regards, > > Shailesh > > > > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote: > hraum namah adityaya > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,> > Tarun: So which state of India represents closest form? Issome form closest to Vedic? > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?> > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com> > > Shailesh C Chadha napisaÅ‚(a): > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| | > > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana, > > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this count. > > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes â€" Dhotior saree â€" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even Roman clothes??? > > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore unstichedcloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti â€" the onlydifference was the type, and direction, of the wrap. > > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans. > > > > These changed with the time, with the development oftailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'. > > > > Regards, > > > > Shailesh > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa ] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz> Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM> sohamsa@ .com> Re: Re: Vedic Clothes > > > > hraum namah adityaya > > Dear Tijana,> > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious fromthe sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.> > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND DHOTIShave nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING. > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC CLOTHING.> > Thank You for help.> > > Regards,> Rafal Gendarz > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com > > nix_nixen napisaÅ‚(a): > > Om Gurave Namah> Dear Rafal,> i`m sure there`s much more on traditional clothingthan we can > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the Mahabharata-the famous > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue thatproves long > history of sari.> One of the important thing about sari and othertraditional clothes > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.Modifications were > done with coming of the Muslims and English. Probablyonly Indian > scholars of history of clothing and costume could saywhat is > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.> Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together aspecific message > and honestly i think that choice of saris and dhotisof people today > (especially from the west) is accidental orhalf-understood.> As for Devatas my guess is that the color of theclothes and > ornaments are important.> Hope this helps in some way. > Warm regards,> Tijana > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz<starsuponme@ ...> wrote:> >> > *hraum namah adityaya* > > > > Dear Bharat,> > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes areconnected to > culture > > obviously. Differentation based on role in societydoesnt negate > fact > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not. Iwanted to know how > much > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis andsaris (esp > those > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very easyfor those who > were > > born in India .> > > > > > Regards, > > Rafal Gendarz> > Sri Jagannath Center Guru> > email: rafal@> > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com> > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):> > >> > > Namaste Sri Rafal> > >> > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as apramana to Satyam, > isn't > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharyaprescribed ochre > robes > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men andSanyasis have > all > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all woredifferent clothes.> > >> > > Thanks and Regards> > > Bharat> > >> > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@ wp.pl > > > <starsuponme > wrote:> > >> > > *hraum namah adityaya*> > >> > > Dear Jyotishas,> > >> > > Could you help me with one issue? I have onedebate with few> > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sariare not > vedic> > > clothes. Could You give me some classical slokaswhich > describe> > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearingDhoti/Sari? I > tried to> > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit wordfor Sari nor > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to name,but to > form of> > > that clothing.> > >> > >> > > Regards,> > > Rafal Gendarz> > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <rafal@ ...>> > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com<http://www.rohinaa. com>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > Shailesh C Chadha> > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally, > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA> Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®> (Cell) +91 984 999 4837> ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are andsay what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those whomatter don't mind. > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way. Those whodon't will find an EXCUSE.> ____________ _________ _________ __>

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Om Gurave Namah

Dear Charu,

Tijana was just inspired by what Bharatji said. If she was right she

would not ponder over what is obvious. Talking about God is as a

blind man`s talk about light, but nevertheless it remains the only

subject that is worth to be talked.

May Great Narasimha bless you.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa , " charu2250 " <charu2250 wrote:

>

> Dear Bharat and Tijana,

>

> Tijana is right.

> Vishnu avatar Narsimha exploded out of a pillar when Prahlad was

> challenged " is your god in everything? Is your god in this

pillar?? " I

> think we all know how the rest of this particular incidnece went and

> concluded!

>

> Om Namo Bhagvate Narsimha Devaya!

>

> peace

> charu

>

>

>

>

>

> sohamsa , " nix_nixen " <nix_nixen@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Pranam Bharatji,

> > I see your statement correct if we say that all resides with Lord

as

> > If everything that is resides in the Lord it can not be separated

> > from Him which means that everything that is is the same with the

> > Lord so He resides in everything also being everything.

> > " The luminosity of Atman consists in the manifestation of all

> > objects. " -tat tvam asi

> > (AdiShankara)

> > Warm regards,

> > Tijana

> >

> >

> > sohamsa , " Bharat - Hindu Astrology "

> > <astrologyhindu@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Tijana

> > > Spirit does not reside in everything. The correct statement is -

 

> > Everything

> > > that is resides in the Lord (spirit, if you may call it).

> > >

> > > The knower of the above isn't going to ask about Vedic clothes.

> > However, a

> > > person who more and more identifies with this knowledge that

all

> > that is is

> > > the Lord, because deeply sensitive. For him/her the entireity

is an

> > > expression of his real Self. To cause pain to anything is like

> > causing pain

> > > to oneself. It is for this reason, the least painful becomes

> > Sattwic and

> > > more spiritual.

> > >

> > > This does not mean that people who wear cotton are spiritual.

Just

> > that

> > > people who tend to understand the truth of the first statement,

> > tend to

> > > cause least harm.

> > >

> > > For the same reason fruits are most Sattwic, since they cause

the

> > least

> > > harm. So on and so forth.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 7/6/07, nix_nixen <nix_nixen@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > Dear memebers of the thread,

> > > > Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes under the

> > > > influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in scriptures

> > something

> > > > universal must be found.

> > > > I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic must be

> > universal,

> > > > if not than it`s something else.

> > > > I don`t see how spirituality is different from any segment of

> > life as

> > > > spirit resides in everything or?

> > > > One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit is thread,

so

> > > > connection exist. The rest is for the experts to think about.

> > > > Warm regards,

> > > > Tijana

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%

> > 40>, " ~Tarun~ " <

> > > > tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Anand ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it was hand made

> > cloth :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > as Bharat ji said

> > > > > " " If the question pertains to what qualifies as a spiritual

> > cloth -

> > > > then, it would mean the one that has come after least harm to

> > anyone.

> > > > Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely not silk

which

> > comes

> > > > from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic rule - just

> > decide

> > > > which disturbs the nature least and causes least harm to any

> > living

> > > > organism. " "

> > > > >

> > > > > The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra was to be

used in

> > > > those times ,and no where we can find the term saree. We now

call

> > > > them saree actually.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to Rafal that ,

do he

> > > > want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear and how to

wear

> > in

> > > > Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or more

detailed,

> > but

> > > > Sari is not the exact term.

> > > > > Saree is an updated thing which is worn in current age.

> > > > > as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

> > > > >

> > > > > " The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas - generally

refer

> > > > to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc.

> > > > > " "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Anand Ravi

> > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Namah Shivaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tarun, Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was used in Egypt for

> > > > mummification too. Please correct me if

> > > > > Iam wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri) dhoti and saree

for

> > > > some special occation is tied in a specific

> > > > > way. Is this very close to the ones done during the Vedic

times.

> > > > I remember they tied my dothi

> > > > > to in this way during Upanayanam.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rgds

> > > > > Anand

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > The clear answer is that there was no such kind of stiching

> > > > that time.

> > > > > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was done

> > > > > they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> > > > >

> > > > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around there body. I hope

> > > > this is helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > tarun

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tarun,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, what is the difference between current and those

> > > > described in Vedas - clear question.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > cheer means cloth, not sari.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shailesh,

> > > > >

> > > > > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or Purana (Panca-

> > > > Veda). If we could get accurate description then our problem

is

> > over.

> > > > Agree?

> > > > >

> > > > > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers to humans.

> > > > So clothes also.

> > > > >

> > > > > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is question.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question is very difficult - almost impossible -

> > > > to answer.

> > > > >

> > > > > To start with, we do not know what is the 'VEDIC TIME'.

> > > > >

> > > > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they represent

> > > > divine knowledge - not human.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question relates to human practices.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there were no

> > > > written books or pictorial representations at that time. So,

> > there is

> > > > no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

> > > > >

> > > > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> > > > generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra', 'adhovastra', etc. I do not

> > recall

> > > > any mention of the type of clothing - not that my stdies or

> > knowledge

> > > > is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned, 'cheera-

harana'

> > > > episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas

> > > > represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social' or

> > the 'cultural'

> > > > knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and PURANAS

> > > > interchangeably.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, the question may remain unresolved; unfortunately.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@ wp.pl> wrote:

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun: So which state of India represents closest

> > > > form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on this

> > > > count.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes †"

> > > > Dhoti or saree †" with the ancient Egyptian, Greece or even

Roman

> > > > clothes???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore

> > > > unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the traditional dhoti

†" the

> > > > only difference was the type, and direction, of the wrap.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > These changed with the time, with the development

> > > > of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

> > > > . com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > >

> > > > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so obvious

> > > > from the sastras that I cant understand their arguments fully.

> > > > >

> > > > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

> > > > DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about VEDIC

> > > > CLOTHING.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank You for help.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > >

> > > > > nix_nixen napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

> > > > clothing than we can

> > > > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

> > > > Mahabharata- the famous

> > > > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

> > > > that proves long

> > > > > history of sari.

> > > > > One of the important thing about sari and other

> > > > traditional clothes

> > > > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is pure.

> > > > Modifications were

> > > > > done with coming of the Muslims and English.

> > > > Probably only Indian

> > > > > scholars of history of clothing and costume could

> > > > say what is

> > > > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> > > > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring together

> > > > a specific message

> > > > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and

> > > > dhotis of people today

> > > > > (especially from the west) is accidental or half-

> > > > understood.

> > > > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of the

> > > > clothes and

> > > > > ornaments are important.

> > > > > Hope this helps in some way.

> > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > Tijana

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

> > > > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture. Clothes

> > > > are connected to

> > > > > culture

> > > > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in

> > > > society doesnt negate

> > > > > fact

> > > > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or not.

> > > > I wanted to know how

> > > > > much

> > > > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current dhotis

> > > > and saris (esp

> > > > > those

> > > > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be very

> > > > easy for those who

> > > > > were

> > > > > > born in India .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one. Veda as a

> > > > pramana to Satyam,

> > > > > isn't

> > > > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi Sankaracharya

> > > > prescribed ochre

> > > > > robes

> > > > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings, learned men

> > > > and Sanyasis have

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They all wore

> > > > different clothes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz* <starsuponme@

> > > > wp.pl

> > > > > > > < starsuponme > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I have one

> > > > debate with few

> > > > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that dhoti and

> > > > sari are not

> > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > clothes. Could You give me some classical

> > > > slokas which

> > > > > describe

> > > > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women wearing

> > > > Dhoti/Sari? I

> > > > > tried to

> > > > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no Sanskrit

> > > > word for Sari nor

> > > > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not attached to

> > > > name, but to

> > > > > form of

> > > > > > > that clothing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com < rafal@ ...>

> > > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

> > > > http://www.rohinaa. com>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Shailesh C Chadha

> > > > >

> > > > > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> > > > > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> > > > > Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> > > > > (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who you are

> > > > and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and

> > those

> > > > who matter don't mind.

> > > > > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a way.

> > > > Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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hraum namah adityaya

 

Dear Jyotishas,

 

Why unstiched cloth is more satvic? Why on altar we shouldnt have

stiched cloth?

 

 

Regards,

Rafal Gendarz

Sri Jagannath Center Guru

email: rafal

Jyotish pages:

www.rohinaa.com

 

 

nix_nixen napisał(a):

 

 

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Charu,

Tijana was just inspired by what Bharatji said. If she was right she

would not ponder over what is obvious. Talking about God is as a

blind man`s talk about light, but nevertheless it remains the only

subject that is worth to be talked.

May Great Narasimha bless you.

Warm regards,

Tijana

 

sohamsa ,

"charu2250" <charu2250 wrote:

>

> Dear Bharat and Tijana,

>

> Tijana is right.

> Vishnu avatar Narsimha exploded out of a pillar when Prahlad was

> challenged "is your god in everything? Is your god in this

pillar??" I

> think we all know how the rest of this particular incidnece went

and

> concluded!

>

> Om Namo Bhagvate Narsimha Devaya!

>

> peace

> charu

>

>

>

>

>

> sohamsa ,

"nix_nixen" <nix_nixen@> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Pranam Bharatji,

> > I see your statement correct if we say that all resides with

Lord

as

> > If everything that is resides in the Lord it can not be

separated

> > from Him which means that everything that is is the same with

the

> > Lord so He resides in everything also being everything.

> > "The luminosity of Atman consists in the manifestation of all

 

> > objects."-tat tvam asi

> > (AdiShankara)

> > Warm regards,

> > Tijana

> >

> >

> > sohamsa ,

"Bharat - Hindu Astrology"

> > <astrologyhindu@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Tijana

> > > Spirit does not reside in everything. The correct

statement is -

 

> > Everything

> > > that is resides in the Lord (spirit, if you may call it).

> > >

> > > The knower of the above isn't going to ask about Vedic

clothes.

> > However, a

> > > person who more and more identifies with this knowledge

that

all

> > that is is

> > > the Lord, because deeply sensitive. For him/her the

entireity

is an

> > > expression of his real Self. To cause pain to anything

is like

> > causing pain

> > > to oneself. It is for this reason, the least painful

becomes

> > Sattwic and

> > > more spiritual.

> > >

> > > This does not mean that people who wear cotton are

spiritual.

Just

> > that

> > > people who tend to understand the truth of the first

statement,

> > tend to

> > > cause least harm.

> > >

> > > For the same reason fruits are most Sattwic, since they

cause

the

> > least

> > > harm. So on and so forth.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > On 7/6/07, nix_nixen <nix_nixen@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > Dear memebers of the thread,

> > > > Vastram dehine Shukra. The enitire phenomenon comes

under the

> > > > influence of the Shukra so folowing this line in

scriptures

> > something

> > > > universal must be found.

> > > > I think that Rafal raised good question as Vedic

must be

> > universal,

> > > > if not than it`s something else.

> > > > I don`t see how spirituality is different from any

segment of

> > life as

> > > > spirit resides in everything or?

> > > > One of the meanings of the word sarit in sanskrit

is thread,

so

> > > > connection exist. The rest is for the experts to

think about.

> > > > Warm regards,

> > > > Tijana

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%

> > 40>, "~Tarun~" <

> > > > tarun.virgo@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Anand ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > It was cotton or linen , but the thing is it

was hand made

> > cloth :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > as Bharat ji said

> > > > > ""If the question pertains to what qualifies

as a spiritual

> > cloth -

> > > > then, it would mean the one that has come after

least harm to

> > anyone.

> > > > Let's say - cotton, jute, leafs, etc. Definitely

not silk

which

> > comes

> > > > from harming a whole load of insects. As a basic

rule - just

> > decide

> > > > which disturbs the nature least and causes least

harm to any

> > living

> > > > organism. ""

> > > > >

> > > > > The Term Saree is not the correct word, Vastra

was to be

used in

> > > > those times ,and no where we can find the term

saree. We now

call

> > > > them saree actually.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes thats wht i asked in my previous mail to

Rafal that ,

do he

> > > > want to find wht Vedas say to wear or wht to wear

and how to

wear

> > in

> > > > Temples or Havan Yagya etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > If we go by term then it will be Angvastra, or

more

detailed,

> > but

> > > > Sari is not the exact term.

> > > > > Saree is an updated thing which is worn in

current age.

> > > > > as Shailesh ji too said in his mail

> > > > >

> > > > > "The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas

- generally

refer

> > > > to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra',

'adhovastra', etc.

> > > > > ""

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Anand Ravi

> > > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 5:28 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Namah Shivaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tarun, Namaste

> > > > >

> > > > > Cotton or Linen - I trust linen. Linen was

used in Egypt for

> > > > mummification too. Please correct me if

> > > > > Iam wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > In South India (Esp. Hindu and Nambootri)

dhoti and saree

for

> > > > some special occation is tied in a specific

> > > > > way. Is this very close to the ones done

during the Vedic

times.

> > > > I remember they tied my dothi

> > > > > to in this way during Upanayanam.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rgds

> > > > > Anand

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 7/6/07, ~Tarun~ <tarun.virgo@>

wrote:

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > The clear answer is that there was no such

kind of stiching

> > > > that time.

> > > > > Neither the use of silk or other fabric was

done

> > > > > they were to use cotton made fabrics.

> > > > >

> > > > > They were to wrap around the Cloth around

there body. I hope

> > > > this is helps.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > tarun

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 3:07 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tarun,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, what is the difference between current

and those

> > > > described in Vedas - clear question.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ~Tarun~ napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > 

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > cheer means cloth, not sari.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > sohamsa

<sohamsa%40>

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:45 PM

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shailesh,

> > > > >

> > > > > #1 Vedic means what is described by Veda or

Purana (Panca-

> > > > Veda). If we could get accurate description then

our problem

is

> > over.

> > > > Agree?

> > > > >

> > > > > #2 Divine is author, but subject surely refers

to humans.

> > > > So clothes also.

> > > > >

> > > > > #3 How Cheera differs from Sari - that is

question.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh Chadha napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question is very difficult - almost

impossible -

> > > > to answer.

> > > > >

> > > > > To start with, we do not know what is the

'VEDIC TIME'.

> > > > >

> > > > > To me, Vedas are eternal - SHASHWAT; they

represent

> > > > divine knowledge - not human.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your question relates to human practices.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, Vedas are part of oral knowledge - there

were no

> > > > written books or pictorial representations at that

time. So,

> > there is

> > > > no 'evidence' of the clothing used at that time.

> > > > >

> > > > > The ancient literature - Puranas and Itihaas -

> > > > generally refer to 'VASTRA', meaning 'cloths',

> > > > like 'angavastra', 'kativastra',

'adhovastra', etc. I do not

> > recall

> > > > any mention of the type of clothing - not that my

stdies or

> > knowledge

> > > > is all that exhaustive. But as Tijana mentioned,

'cheera-

harana'

> > > > episode from Mahabharata is so welll-known.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, please appreciate that Vedas

> > > > represent 'spiritual' knowledge, not the 'social'

or

> > the 'cultural'

> > > > knowledge. And, I would not use the terms VEDAS and

PURANAS

> > > > interchangeably.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, the question may remain unresolved;

unfortunately.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 7/6/07, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme@

wp.pl> wrote:

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shaileshji, Tijanaji, Bharatji, Tarunji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Tarun: So which state of India represents

closest

> > > > form? Is some form closest to Vedic?

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh: yes, but what was the Vedic Clothing?

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh C Chadha napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Gurave Namah | Om Namo Naraayanaaya| |

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal & Tijana,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I am afraid your ISKON friends are correct on

this

> > > > count.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Have you compared the so called Vedic clothes

â€"

> > > > Dhoti or saree â€" with the ancient Egyptian,

Greece or even

Roman

> > > > clothes???

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > They all seem so similar - all of them wore

> > > > unstiched cloths, loosely resembling the

traditional dhoti

â€" the

> > > > only difference was the type, and direction, of the

wrap.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So also for the head-gear, or turbans.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > These changed with the time, with the

development

> > > > of tailoring skills, and with the local 'fashion'.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Shailesh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com [sohamsa@

> > > > . com] On Behalf Of Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Friday, July 06, 2007 2:35 AM

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com

> > > > > Re: Re: Vedic Clothes

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > hraum namah adityaya

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tijana,

> > > > >

> > > > > Exactly! I gave the same example. Its so

obvious

> > > > from the sastras that I cant understand their

arguments fully.

> > > > >

> > > > > It seems that they say that CURRENT SARIS AND

> > > > DHOTIS have nothing to do with VEDIC CLOTHING.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore wanted to grasp information about

VEDIC

> > > > CLOTHING.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thank You for help.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com

> > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com

> > > > >

> > > > > nix_nixen napisał(a):

> > > > >

> > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > > i`m sure there`s much more on traditional

> > > > clothing than we can

> > > > > imagine. There`s a mention of sari in the

> > > > Mahabharata- the famous

> > > > > story of Krisna`s protecting Draupadi`s virtue

> > > > that proves long

> > > > > history of sari.

> > > > > One of the important thing about sari and other

> > > > traditional clothes

> > > > > is believing that the unstitched fabric is

pure.

> > > > Modifications were

> > > > > done with coming of the Muslims and English.

> > > > Probably only Indian

> > > > > scholars of history of clothing and costume

could

> > > > say what is

> > > > > traditional in clothes we are seeing today.

> > > > > Color, fabric, ornaments, wearing bring

together

> > > > a specific message

> > > > > and honestly i think that choice of saris and

> > > > dhotis of people today

> > > > > (especially from the west) is accidental or

half-

> > > > understood.

> > > > > As for Devatas my guess is that the color of

the

> > > > clothes and

> > > > > ornaments are important.

> > > > > Hope this helps in some way.

> > > > > Warm regards,

> > > > > Tijana

> > > > >

> > > > > sohamsa@ .com, Rafal Gendarz

> > > > <starsuponme@ ...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Indeed Veda is worrying about culture.

Clothes

> > > > are connected to

> > > > > culture

> > > > > > obviously. Differentation based on role in

> > > > society doesnt negate

> > > > > fact

> > > > > > that we can say some clothing is Vedic or

not.

> > > > I wanted to know how

> > > > > much

> > > > > > Devatas clothes are connected to current

dhotis

> > > > and saris (esp

> > > > > those

> > > > > > worn by Iskcon). I thought that would be

very

> > > > easy for those who

> > > > > were

> > > > > > born in India .

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > email: rafal@

> > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa . com

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bharat - Hindu Astrology napisa?(a):

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Sri Rafal

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vedic Clothes? That is a new one.

Veda as a

> > > > pramana to Satyam,

> > > > > isn't

> > > > > > > worried about clothes. Sri Adi

Sankaracharya

> > > > prescribed ochre

> > > > > robes

> > > > > > > for those taking Sanyasa. Kings,

learned men

> > > > and Sanyasis have

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > been the knowers of the Truth. They

all wore

> > > > different clothes.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, *Rafal Gendarz*

<starsuponme@

> > > > wp.pl

> > > > > > > < starsuponme >

wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *hraum namah adityaya*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Could you help me with one issue? I

have one

> > > > debate with few

> > > > > > > iskcon devotees which proclaim that

dhoti and

> > > > sari are not

> > > > > vedic

> > > > > > > clothes. Could You give me some

classical

> > > > slokas which

> > > > > describe

> > > > > > > that Devatas, Rsis or Sastric Women

wearing

> > > > Dhoti/Sari? I

> > > > > tried to

> > > > > > > seek in Bhagavatam, but there is no

Sanskrit

> > > > word for Sari nor

> > > > > > > Dhoti. What is Your view? Im not

attached to

> > > > name, but to

> > > > > form of

> > > > > > > that clothing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz

> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> > > > > > > email: rafal (AT) rohinaa (DOT) com <

rafal@ ...>

> > > > > > > Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa. com <

> > > > http://www.rohinaa.

com>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > Shailesh C Chadha

> > > > >

> > > > > #18A, St#11, Lane#2, East Marredpally,

> > > > > Secunderabad [AP] - 5000 026, INDIA

> > > > > Tel:+91 40-27733478( O);27737779 ®

> > > > > (Cell) +91 984 999 4837

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ ____- Be who

you are

> > > > and say what you feel because those who mind don't

matter and

> > those

> > > > who matter don't mind.

> > > > > - Those who want to be SUCCESSFUL will find a

way.

> > > > Those who don't will find an EXCUSE.

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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rafal there is no so called vadic clothes, yes for diffrent worships

their are some advice to wear type of cloths or color.

 

 

, Rafal Gendarz <starsuponme

wrote:

>

> *hraum namah adityaya*

>

> Dear Jyotishas,

>

> Could you help me with one issue? I have one debate with few iskcon

> devotees which proclaim that dhoti and sari are not vedic clothes.

Could

> You give me some classical slokas which describe that Devatas, Rsis

or

> Sastric Women wearing Dhoti/Sari? I tried to seek in Bhagavatam,

but

> there is no Sanskrit word for Sari nor Dhoti. What is Your view? Im

not

> attached to name, but to form of that clothing.

>

>

> Regards,

> Rafal Gendarz

> Sri Jagannath Center Guru

> email: rafal

> Jyotish pages: www.rohinaa.com

>

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