Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

November 15, 2007

Hi Dhanajay

First of all I think it is difficult today in a city to appreciate how bright

stars can be due to light pollution but we can still see the outlines of the

various constellations as they pass over.

If bright stars are dimmed then it is easy to know which stars are passing over

by watching the position of the Moon at night, and by knowing which phase the

Moon is in, it is easy to know where other planets are in relation to each

other on the ecliptic path.

This is why the full Moon in constellations are important in locating the time

of year and the season regulated by the Sun, because the full Moon is very

bright and easy to pick out even on some cloudy nights.

What is interesting is that the asterisms are not uniform in their size and

space they take up, so by knowing this and being able to locate the brightest

ones above it becomes easier to single out planetary positions in relation to

these asterisms.

How do you think they were able to locate the exact positions, it would be

interesting to share what we know.

best wishes

M

Original Message -----

gupta089

Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:10 AM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

Dear Marg

Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

ancient people used to see and calculate exact

position of planets

Dhananjay

November 15, 2007

Dear Dhananjay and those interested,

First of all sorry for untimely mails my server has had Mercury

retro.....................:-)

I also thought you might enjoy this little method employed by many ancient

astrologers to locate planetary positions exactly.

Chinese astrologers, and perhaps others we haven't yet found out about, though I

suspect the Egyptians too, use Ursa Major to tell the time.

First of all locate the constellation at a specific date and time and note which

architectural feature near your home the 'handle' is pointing to.

Ursa Major revolves around the sky once a day but gives a total rotation once a

year, so by watching it daily you can note the movement carefully yourself.

The position moves just short of one degree every four minutes, and one degree

is about twice the width of the full moon, so it gives a quarter of a revolution

every six hours. The position will have shifted one degree each day at the same

time, or a quarter turn every three months.

Over one lifetime this doesn't alter significantly, but over many millennia

precession affects it radically which is why there is a need to keep watching

which star is nearest the north pole, and changing the constellation you use in

order to tell the time.

As I mentioned earlier it takes 4800 years for Thuban to shift its location and

give way to Polaris at the North Pole. The total years for this precession of

the North to South constellational path is 25920 years, and it would affect

which constellations are visible above or below the horizon, also our clock

times would be out of synchrony with sun rising and setting times. For instance

in year 2500 9 o clock would be the new twelve o clock!

I also believe this is the method ancient astrologers used to give predictions

about the destiny of nations, and of the earth itself.

best wishes

M

Original Message -----

gupta089

Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:10 AM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

Dear Marg

Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

ancient people used to see and calculate exact

position of planets

Dhananjay

November 15, 2007

I HAVE ONE PROBLEM MY MESSAGES ARE POSTED

MUCH AFTER I SEND.

Interesting Marg

Interesting.

thnks for the reply

People think that i argue very much, this u also

must have noticed when i was dealing with " past

Karma and present Bhagya " in this group.

But i am in search of truth.

It does not matter for me who first invented

zodiac and nakshatra or who is superior or who

is inferior or which ascendent is most perfect.

Indians defeated and pushed back the Alexander

the Great, who suffered heavy loses.

As we ordinary people believe that ancient seers

in Vedic period possesed (Divya Dhristi)ie super-

natural sight through which they used to see exact

position of planets & nakshatra anywhere anytime.

It is true that Indians were very briliant in

mathematics in the past and they must have divided

the zodiac in 12 division and further into many divisions.

which is easy task.

AS we can today, they were also able to map Sun Moon

& Nakshatras in the sky and calculate their motion.

But it seems impossible to locate the planets

which do not emit light & then do calculation for

their exact path without the aid of telescope,

much earlier the birth of Christ.

What do u think

Waiting for reply of other members also.

Regards

Dhananjay

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Dhananjay and those interested,

>

> First of all sorry for untimely mails my server has had Mercury

retro.....................:-)

>

> I also thought you might enjoy this little method employed by many

ancient astrologers to locate planetary positions exactly.

>

> Chinese astrologers, and perhaps others we haven't yet found out

about, though I suspect the Egyptians too, use Ursa Major to tell the

time.

> First of all locate the constellation at a specific date and time

and note which architectural feature near your home the 'handle' is

pointing to.

>

> Ursa Major revolves around the sky once a day but gives a total

rotation once a year, so by watching it daily you can note the

movement carefully yourself.

>

> The position moves just short of one degree every four minutes, and

one degree is about twice the width of the full moon, so it gives a

quarter of a revolution every six hours. The position will have

shifted one degree each day at the same time, or a quarter turn every

three months.

>

> Over one lifetime this doesn't alter significantly, but over many

millennia precession affects it radically which is why there is a

need to keep watching which star is nearest the north pole, and

changing the constellation you use in order to tell the time.

>

> As I mentioned earlier it takes 4800 years for Thuban to shift its

location and give way to Polaris at the North Pole. The total years

for this precession of the North to South constellational path is

25920 years, and it would affect which constellations are visible

above or below the horizon, also our clock times would be out of

synchrony with sun rising and setting times. For instance in year

2500 9 o clock would be the new twelve o clock!

>

> I also believe this is the method ancient astrologers used to give

predictions about the destiny of nations, and of the earth itself.

> best wishes

> M

>

Original Message -----

> gupta089

>

> Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:10 AM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

> Dear Marg

> Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

> ancient people used to see and calculate exact

> position of planets

>

> Dhananjay

>

November 15, 2007

Dear Marg,

what are the books you are following?

kishore patnaik

98492 70729

November 15, 2007

// but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a

little clouded. //

Sorry anybody, I do not mean to interfere in this

thread. Nor wish to offend any one , neither the

querist nor the replier. But loose statements have

to be deleted .

Neither in Valmikis days was this clouded and neither in

todays days. We wish to understand something for which

we need to have our own clouded mind cleared, instead

of presumtions and wild guesses, and making statements

that understanding of these terms, would have been

clouded in Valmikis days even.

Sanskrit is not a ordinary language to be just learnt

like abcd. One has to spend many decades to have a good

knowledge of the same. Because we dont understand does

not give us a right to call people of one section or

one time as clouded or incoherent .

There are so many words sounding same, meaning

same in majority, but all having seperate

demarcation lines, where the exact meaning is

to be professed.

Vak (Vaka)

Vakam

Vakyam

Vacha

Vach

Vachyam

Vachak

Vachanam

Vachik

Vachya

I have not listed many more words here, and neither

listed another hundrd words which can be added to above

and made another word, revealing different meanings.

I can give meanings of most above words

by heart without referring Sanskrit texts,

or grammar books because they form a

part of our culture.

Thus please do not call any people of Valmikis time as

Clouded brains.It is ones own mind which may be limited

in understanding, but not the language you are

referring to, and neither the people of ancient times,

born in era of Sage Valmiki and our Lord Shri Rama.

regards,

Bhaskar.

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi Pradeep,

>

> Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind of

you

> to take the time to write all that.

> I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there usually

is:-)

> I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and

Vaka,

> but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little clouded.

> best wishes

> Margaret

>

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

> Dear Ms.Margaret

>

> Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence

i

> need time.

>

> But i can give views.

> In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word and

> vachana can mean divine word as well.

>

> I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

>

> But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the very

> root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

>

> Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

mouth

> has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can

be

> loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse

is

> also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of

Knowledge.One

> being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> Vacha-Vachaspati.

> Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

for

> Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

> different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

Vacha

> with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> conclusion.

>

> They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i

need

> to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the

answer

> is sufficient:-).

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Pradeep.

> > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was

Vak,

> are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> >

> > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> Jupiter.

> > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> Guru,Vachas

> > pati etc are for Guru).

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> another view.

> > >

> > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> intended to

> > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

> it not

> > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> vicinity

> > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in

> the

> > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice,

not

> > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> understand

> > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of

> Vak,

> > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> evidence

> > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

> > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

> vedas

> > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

> used in

> > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> rather than

> > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

merits

> of

> > the source you quoted.

> > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

> just

> > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

the

> time

> > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> considered

> > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> were a

> > later development.

> > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> modern

> > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> saying

> > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

could

> not

> > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

> and no

> > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be

> an

> > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source

> of

> > your quote is?

> > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

more

> than

> > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> Rajagopalachari

> > >

> > > -

> > > kishore patnaik

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > >

> > > Dear Marg,

> > >

> > > Good to read your mail.

> > >

> > > Bad things first:

> > >

> > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

> > This is so

> > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> more ,whereas

> > Mercury

> > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > degrees- thus

> > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a

> sign

> > but here

> > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

got

> to be

> > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> venus.

> > >

> > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> falls.It

> > starts at

> > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till

8.5

> > muhurtha. As

> > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

> every

> > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun

in

> > pisces and

> > > lagna falling in cancer

> > >

> > > Now, the good things:

> > >

> > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> cosmological

> > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

> find

> > a spark

> > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

> birth,

> > though

> > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent

to

> > Heavens

> > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

Rama's

> times.

> > > Please fill me up.

> > >

> > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > > 98492 70729

> > >

> > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

interpretation

> > in, and

> > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

Mercury?

> > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus,

> so

> > Venus as

> > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which

is

> > ruled by

> > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> Lord of

> > Vak would

> > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

> abhijit

> > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with

> the

> > moon's

> > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > attention to an

> > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect

the

> > expected usual

> > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

Ramayana,

> a

> > brilliant

> > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> > during the

> > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

> > king of the

> > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is

an

> > allegory of

> > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

you

> think?

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Margaret

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > >

> > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

> days.

> > I am

> > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > the birth :

> > > >

> > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam ||

1-

> 18-11

> > > >

> > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> completion;

> > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

> > dvaadashe

> > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra

> month

> > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

> the day

> > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

> swa uccha

> > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> positing;

> > karkaTe

> > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> > Speech's, Lord

> > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > raising ï¿½

> > > > ascending, advancing daytime ï¿½ abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

> Queen

> > Kausalya;

> > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> namaskR^itam=

> > by all,

> > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

> > along with;

> > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

> mahaa

> > bhaagam=

> > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> > delight of;

> > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

armed;

> > rakta oSTam=

> > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> Rama

> > as; putram=

> > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > >

> > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > >

> > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > >

> > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> > vakpati. Is it

> > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

> could

> > not be

> > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own)

or

> > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

planets

> > which are in

> > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > >

> > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> Saturn.

> > While the

> > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> > planets places

> > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > >

> > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> cancer on a

> > > > navami

> > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

> 108

> > degrees.

> > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

> the

> > place of

> > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

aries.

> > > >

> > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

after

> > hearing from

> > > > all of you.

> > > >

> > > > with best regards,

> > > >

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

November 15, 2007

Dear Kishore

The Chinese technique for following time by anchoring the plough to a focal

point on earth I got from a book on Chinese astrology by Derek Walters--very

interesting.

The Egyptian astrology I've been following for some time over the years as the

asterisms they used, as well as other cultures, are very similarly represented

on ancient archaeological finds like in tombs and in pyramids.

Also in Ireland they have an ancient cave with similar recordings of moon

patterns and cycles which have not yet been decisively dated but go back

millennia.

Not sure if this was the reply you were interested in?

As for my own theory that the north south constellational precession is crucial

to understanding the varying epochs of man and earth, this has been evolving

over some years now, and is not found in any particular book I have read to be

honest, though I have read many of the great ancient classics from varying

cultures.

This is why I felt the Rama topic is interesting. The epic poem no matter who it

is translated by, echoes of more profound truths based upon factual evolutionary

events, rather than mere myth and legends, same as Arjuna and the Mahabharata.

I do feel that many so called legends trivialised as mere religious beliefs by

archaeologists and many academics down the centuries, are much more than

''ancient primitive people's worshipping gods.''

This has been the tragedy of truth down the ages that someone invests religious

beliefs into something, instead of realising its true nature and value, and then

destroys it or pours scorn on it, so damaging the handing down of important

universal understandings.

Most important I have been studying astronomy above everything else.

best wishes

margaret

-

kishore patnaik

Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:41 PM

Re: Fw: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

Dear Marg,

what are the books you are following?

kishore patnaik

98492 70729

November 16, 2007

Hi Dhananjay

I would be interested to hear of any other method also.

I do think it is very easy to understand the motion and path of the planets

without a telescope. All you have to do it look at the sky, know the sky, its

seasons and its cyclic motions. The fact that some stars are not so bright is

not a problem.

The full moon is a good marker for planetary pathways and this is perhaps why

it was singled out as a key marker for events.

best wishes

m

-

gupta089

Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:45 PM

Fw: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

I HAVE ONE PROBLEM MY MESSAGES ARE POSTED

MUCH AFTER I SEND.

Interesting Marg

Interesting.

thnks for the reply

People think that i argue very much, this u also

must have noticed when i was dealing with " past

Karma and present Bhagya " in this group.

But i am in search of truth.

It does not matter for me who first invented

zodiac and nakshatra or who is superior or who

is inferior or which ascendent is most perfect.

Indians defeated and pushed back the Alexander

the Great, who suffered heavy loses.

As we ordinary people believe that ancient seers

in Vedic period possesed (Divya Dhristi)ie super-

natural sight through which they used to see exact

position of planets & nakshatra anywhere anytime.

It is true that Indians were very briliant in

mathematics in the past and they must have divided

the zodiac in 12 division and further into many divisions.

which is easy task.

AS we can today, they were also able to map Sun Moon

& Nakshatras in the sky and calculate their motion.

But it seems impossible to locate the planets

which do not emit light & then do calculation for

their exact path without the aid of telescope,

much earlier the birth of Christ.

What do u think

Waiting for reply of other members also.

Regards

Dhananjay

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Dhananjay and those interested,

>

> First of all sorry for untimely mails my server has had Mercury

retro.....................:-)

>

> I also thought you might enjoy this little method employed by many

ancient astrologers to locate planetary positions exactly.

>

> Chinese astrologers, and perhaps others we haven't yet found out

about, though I suspect the Egyptians too, use Ursa Major to tell the

time.

> First of all locate the constellation at a specific date and time

and note which architectural feature near your home the 'handle' is

pointing to.

>

> Ursa Major revolves around the sky once a day but gives a total

rotation once a year, so by watching it daily you can note the

movement carefully yourself.

>

> The position moves just short of one degree every four minutes, and

one degree is about twice the width of the full moon, so it gives a

quarter of a revolution every six hours. The position will have

shifted one degree each day at the same time, or a quarter turn every

three months.

>

> Over one lifetime this doesn't alter significantly, but over many

millennia precession affects it radically which is why there is a

need to keep watching which star is nearest the north pole, and

changing the constellation you use in order to tell the time.

>

> As I mentioned earlier it takes 4800 years for Thuban to shift its

location and give way to Polaris at the North Pole. The total years

for this precession of the North to South constellational path is

25920 years, and it would affect which constellations are visible

above or below the horizon, also our clock times would be out of

synchrony with sun rising and setting times. For instance in year

2500 9 o clock would be the new twelve o clock!

>

> I also believe this is the method ancient astrologers used to give

predictions about the destiny of nations, and of the earth itself.

> best wishes

> M

>

> Original Message -----

> gupta089

>

> Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:10 AM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

> Dear Marg

> Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

> ancient people used to see and calculate exact

> position of planets

>

> Dhananjay

>

November 16, 2007

Dear Tarunji,

Sorry for the delay in reply.

I thank you for the well meant advise.

Never underestimate the power of very stupid

people in large groups. They cany repair

their brakes, so they make their horns

louder.

I know many people in this world are

here to full other gullible

foolish innocent people. This is why the

world exists. If all were good,

then how could duality exist.

I normally dont enter threads where I

dont have knowledge, or they are

conversing on silly topics, but when it

comes to religion, or vedic astrology

which both we are practising, then

being present one is duty bound to

make corrections, if he is a real

devotee of His Lord, which I

normally do, otherwise we have enough

troubles of our own, to create or enter

new ones.

Most of these chaps want to become famous

by talking something spectacular like the

example you gave, but unfortunately

TV Shows are not live, and if invited I

could take them to task properly. There

is another Famous numerologist who practises

with his wife, and who cant sit properly too

decently and always speaks with a sly grin.

What he does, any 10th std.pass can do after

reading few books.There are many such people

on TV Shows, astrologers, Tarot card readers

etc. and most of them are fakes. You ask them

to predict and they will be looking sideways.

But this is the world. Dont we have many fakes

on Forum too ? Unfortunatelly for us and

fortunately for them, I have better work

to do, otherwise I would have exposed all these

hoodwinkers by now.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, " Tarun " <tarun.virgo wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar ji,

>

> Why to debate with those who are just annoying the topic.

>

> One person from chennai developed some software and quoted that

> Prabhu Shri Ram was borned on 10th janurary 5100 BC.

> i donot know what the way he followed , but it was coming on Star

> news.

>

> So manipulation and giving fire to topics is a measure to obtain

> popularity.

>

> If we start to question on existence of Christian base of God and

> other topics, no one would be able to answer.

>

> Regards,

>

> Tarun

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > You are not talking astrology here, but

> > trying to prove that Indians borrowed words

> > from other civilisations.

> > So what is there about it I cant understand.

> > Mixture of cultures is nothing new, and so

> > is language, but this certainly does

> > not imply that the knowledge of asterisms

> > was taken from some outer influence.

> > Period.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > What a intelligent way to explore topics in a

> > > more informative and intelligent way.

> > >

> > > What a intelligent thread and topic to open, the

> > > outcome of which would increase

> > > our astrological level to a super level (???)

> > >

> > > First your friend raja opens a stupid thread and then backs

> > > out saying that he had written it hurriedly.

> > > In the meanwhile you express your love, by supporting him

> > > and declaring that the Chinese already knew about the 28

> > > asterisms thousands of years ago, and they have been

> > > using it since them. On asking you to support this

> > > declaration with some authentic proof, and your inability

> > > to produce the same, you jump on some other silly topic ,

> > > so that we forget your past stupid declarations.

> > >

> > > You are asking us why Valmiki gives reference to Karka ?

> > > You never paused to think that we could also ask you why

> > > Moses was named as he was in the Bible, and why

> > > The Last Supper was named so, or why the

> > > Holy Spirit is mentioned so, or why Virgin Mary

> > > was mentioned so, when Lord Jesus Christ was.......

> > >

> > > Now listen Margaret, dont stir up a hornets nest by

> > > talking rubbish here.

> > > Do not try any conversions here or try to confuse

> > > the devout religious astrologers over here. Take your

> > > baggage somewhere else with this filth.and

> > > You are quite obvious in You anti Hindu stance.

> > >

> > > Tomorrow you would ask us why the Greeks use

> > > " Padre " word for Father or " Madre " for mother.

> > > By reading few books do not try to appear as

> > > knowledgable where there is none and only thrash

> > > exists.

> > >

> > > Anyway what are you trying to prove by these

> > > senseless queries ? Your little knowledge of

> > > Sanskrit which is non-existent ?

> > > You should have done some homework

> > > before putting this post here instead of looking

> > > utterly stupid.

> > >

> > > Now for your benefit, after which I expect you

> > > to whamoosh with your dirty baggage ,please.

> > >

> > > Sanskrit Meanings for " Karka "

> > > 1) Crab

> > > 2) Cancer ,the 4th sign of the Zodiac.

> > > 3) Fire.

> > > 4) A water jar.

> > > 5) A mirror.

> > > 6) A white horse.

> > >

> > > Now dont ask us another silly question

> > > as to why in this particular shloka

> > > Karka means Cancer.

> > >

> > > There is another word " Karkata "

> > > with similiar meanings but add

> > > one more meaning to it

> > > 1) A compass, circuit.

> > >

> > > Okay You got the meanings. Now what great discovery

> > > are you upto or some light dawning on us with some

> > > super revelation by Your Smart self ?

> > >

> > > panaphera, apoklima and kendra are Sanskrit or not ?

> > > What difference does it make ?

> > > A rose would remain a Rose by

> > > whatever name You call it.

> > > What are you trying to arrive at here ?

> > >

> > > Next time please come

> > > with useful posts on astrology,

> > > which actually help the Science and the practising

> > > astrologers, and do not open up confusions or

> > > controversies.

> > >

> > > Bhaskar.

> > >

> > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this

> topic

> > in

> > > a more informative and intelligent way.

> > > > First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit

> > translation

> > > of Valmikis includes a reference to Karke?

> > > > Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

> > > > Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

> > > > Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the

> > > following are actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and

kendra?

> > > > best wishes

> > > > M

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > Raja Gursahani

> > > >

> > > > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

> > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord

Rama/Vachaspati

> > > >

> > > > yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe

that

> a

> > > group of

> > > > astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound

> conclusions

> > > then one

> > > > person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would

> like

> > > please read

> > > > the following book which how I have come to this conclusion

> (

> > the

> > > wisdom of

> > > > crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer

> and

> > > rebuttal to

> > > > Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and

thus

> > even

> > > the

> > > > greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course.

I

> > > would like

> > > > Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo

> ascendant

> > > doesn't give

> > > > him the power to control others as he really seems to think

> > that

> > > the leo

> > > > ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the

light

> > > because if he

> > > > could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not

> > controlling

> > > this

> > > > situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying

to

> > > bully us into

> > > > submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this

> forum

> > in

> > > such a

> > > > manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this

> > forum

> > > has lost

> > > > its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is

> dictated

> > > by a

> > > > totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer

> and

> > > individual

> > > > he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

> > > discussion, but

> > > > instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if

he

> > has

> > > been given

> > > > the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he

> continues

> > > to act like

> > > > this child who has not been disciplined then well surely

the

> > > group will

> > > > convene in naturally and discipline him.

> > > >

> > > > sincerely,

> > > >

> > > > ________

> > > >

> > > > Raja G. Gursahani

> > > > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > > > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> > > >

November 16, 2007

Respected Marg

It is good for us that u are member of this

group. An astronomer in u is present here.

Ihave very little knowledge of astronomy, so I am

dependent on you.

Iwant to know just for my satisfaction because

my mind do not allow me to take any thing for granted.

Do u think that it was possible for people 2000 or

3000 years before Christ without using special Dhristi

or telescope to observe faraway planets such as Sat.

for astrological purpose. Ones i read that ancient

people do not know about retrogate planets or they

had some doubt.

Since u have scientific knowledge of astronomy,

just say yes or no and i will accept it.

What i mean to say that if suppose i start watching

sky (with some basic knowledge and assumption) without

telescope and continue it for years recording each

and every data about the planets and nakashtras then

at last will i be able to cast horoscope or develop

panchang

Suggest me some books on astronomy.

Regards

Dhananjay

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi Dhananjay

> I would be interested to hear of any other method also.

>

> I do think it is very easy to understand the motion and path of the

planets without a telescope. All you have to do it look at the sky,

know the sky, its seasons and its cyclic motions. The fact that some

stars are not so bright is not a problem.

> The full moon is a good marker for planetary pathways and this is

perhaps why it was singled out as a key marker for events.

> best wishes

> m

> -

> gupta089

>

> Thursday, November 15, 2007 2:45 PM

> Fw: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

> I HAVE ONE PROBLEM MY MESSAGES ARE POSTED

> MUCH AFTER I SEND.

>

> Interesting Marg

> Interesting.

> thnks for the reply

> People think that i argue very much, this u also

> must have noticed when i was dealing with " past

> Karma and present Bhagya " in this group.

> But i am in search of truth.

> It does not matter for me who first invented

> zodiac and nakshatra or who is superior or who

> is inferior or which ascendent is most perfect.

> Indians defeated and pushed back the Alexander

> the Great, who suffered heavy loses.

>

> As we ordinary people believe that ancient seers

> in Vedic period possesed (Divya Dhristi)ie super-

> natural sight through which they used to see exact

> position of planets & nakshatra anywhere anytime.

> It is true that Indians were very briliant in

> mathematics in the past and they must have divided

> the zodiac in 12 division and further into many divisions.

> which is easy task.

> AS we can today, they were also able to map Sun Moon

> & Nakshatras in the sky and calculate their motion.

> But it seems impossible to locate the planets

> which do not emit light & then do calculation for

> their exact path without the aid of telescope,

> much earlier the birth of Christ.

>

> What do u think

> Waiting for reply of other members also.

> Regards

> Dhananjay

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Dhananjay and those interested,

> >

> > First of all sorry for untimely mails my server has had Mercury

> retro.....................:-)

> >

> > I also thought you might enjoy this little method employed by

many

> ancient astrologers to locate planetary positions exactly.

> >

> > Chinese astrologers, and perhaps others we haven't yet found

out

> about, though I suspect the Egyptians too, use Ursa Major to tell

the

> time.

> > First of all locate the constellation at a specific date and

time

> and note which architectural feature near your home the 'handle'

is

> pointing to.

> >

> > Ursa Major revolves around the sky once a day but gives a total

> rotation once a year, so by watching it daily you can note the

> movement carefully yourself.

> >

> > The position moves just short of one degree every four minutes,

and

> one degree is about twice the width of the full moon, so it gives

a

> quarter of a revolution every six hours. The position will have

> shifted one degree each day at the same time, or a quarter turn

every

> three months.

> >

> > Over one lifetime this doesn't alter significantly, but over

many

> millennia precession affects it radically which is why there is a

> need to keep watching which star is nearest the north pole, and

> changing the constellation you use in order to tell the time.

> >

> > As I mentioned earlier it takes 4800 years for Thuban to shift

its

> location and give way to Polaris at the North Pole. The total

years

> for this precession of the North to South constellational path is

> 25920 years, and it would affect which constellations are visible

> above or below the horizon, also our clock times would be out of

> synchrony with sun rising and setting times. For instance in year

> 2500 9 o clock would be the new twelve o clock!

> >

> > I also believe this is the method ancient astrologers used to

give

> predictions about the destiny of nations, and of the earth itself.

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > Original Message -----

> > gupta089

> >

> > Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:10 AM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> > Dear Marg

> > Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

> > ancient people used to see and calculate exact

> > position of planets

> >

> > Dhananjay

> >

November 16, 2007

Dear Ms Margaret

Thanks for the reply.

Here are some more thoughts which came to my mind.5th house is also

defined as Vak-Sthana.As we Know Vak originates from Nabhi(Navel)

Region and is connected to Saraswati.That comes from mouth is also

Vak but the audible form(4th order).This can be termed as Vachana as

well as Vak.Perhaps origin of Vak is from Brahma Nabhi while

Saraswati is manifested in 2nd.Guru is also the Karaka for the 5th

house.The disciple also is represented by 5th house.Thus the effect

and the Pathi can be explained from 2nd as well as 5th house.

Regds

Pradeep

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi Pradeep,

>

> Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind of

you

> to take the time to write all that.

> I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there usually

is:-)

> I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and

Vaka,

> but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little clouded.

> best wishes

> Margaret

>

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

> Dear Ms.Margaret

>

> Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence

i

> need time.

>

> But i can give views.

> In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word

and

> vachana can mean divine word as well.

>

> I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

>

> But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the

very

> root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

>

> Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

mouth

> has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can

be

> loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse

is

> also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of

Knowledge.One

> being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> Vacha-Vachaspati.

> Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

for

> Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

> different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

Vacha

> with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> conclusion.

>

> They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i

need

> to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the

answer

> is sufficient:-).

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Pradeep.

> > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was

Vak,

> are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> >

> > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> Jupiter.

> > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> Guru,Vachas

> > pati etc are for Guru).

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> another view.

> > >

> > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> intended to

> > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

> it not

> > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> vicinity

> > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus

in

> the

> > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice,

not

> > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> understand

> > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator

of

> Vak,

> > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> evidence

> > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been

fully

> > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

> vedas

> > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

> used in

> > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> rather than

> > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

merits

> of

> > the source you quoted.

> > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

> just

> > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

the

> time

> > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> considered

> > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> were a

> > later development.

> > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> modern

> > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> saying

> > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

could

> not

> > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

> and no

> > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to

be

> an

> > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the

source

> of

> > your quote is?

> > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

more

> than

> > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> Rajagopalachari

> > >

> > > -

> > > kishore patnaik

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > >

> > > Dear Marg,

> > >

> > > Good to read your mail.

> > >

> > > Bad things first:

> > >

> > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami

day.

> > This is so

> > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> more ,whereas

> > Mercury

> > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > degrees- thus

> > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of

a

> sign

> > but here

> > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

got

> to be

> > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> venus.

> > >

> > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> falls.It

> > starts at

> > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till

8.5

> > muhurtha. As

> > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

> every

> > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun

in

> > pisces and

> > > lagna falling in cancer

> > >

> > > Now, the good things:

> > >

> > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> cosmological

> > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

> find

> > a spark

> > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

> birth,

> > though

> > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent

to

> > Heavens

> > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

Rama's

> times.

> > > Please fill me up.

> > >

> > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > > 98492 70729

> > >

> > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

interpretation

> > in, and

> > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

Mercury?

> > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules

Taurus,

> so

> > Venus as

> > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which

is

> > ruled by

> > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> Lord of

> > Vak would

> > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

> abhijit

> > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun

with

> the

> > moon's

> > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > attention to an

> > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect

the

> > expected usual

> > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

Ramayana,

> a

> > brilliant

> > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> > during the

> > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by

Trisanku,

> > king of the

> > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is

an

> > allegory of

> > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

you

> think?

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Margaret

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > >

> > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

> days.

> > I am

> > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > the birth :

> > > >

> > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

10

> > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam ||

1-

> 18-11

> > > >

> > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> completion;

> > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

then;

> > dvaadashe

> > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

chaitra

> month

> > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

> the day

> > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

> swa uccha

> > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> positing;

> > karkaTe

> > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> > Speech's, Lord

> > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > raising ï¿½

> > > > ascending, advancing daytime ï¿½ abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

> Queen

> > Kausalya;

> > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> namaskR^itam=

> > by all,

> > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine,

attributes,

> > along with;

> > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

> mahaa

> > bhaagam=

> > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> > delight of;

> > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

armed;

> > rakta oSTam=

> > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> Rama

> > as; putram=

> > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > >

> > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > >

> > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > >

> > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> > vakpati. Is it

> > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

> could

> > not be

> > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own)

or

> > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

planets

> > which are in

> > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > >

> > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> Saturn.

> > While the

> > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> > planets places

> > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > >

> > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> cancer on a

> > > > navami

> > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

> 108

> > degrees.

> > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

> the

> > place of

> > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

aries.

> > > >

> > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

after

> > hearing from

> > > > all of you.

> > > >

> > > > with best regards,

> > > >

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

November 16, 2007

Dear Vijay,

Please do not give your own definitions and meaningless interpretations.

First try to learn the sastra very faith fully instead of trying to

interpret everything that comes your way.

You dont seem to be knowing what is brma nabhi, where the Omkara , the

pranava emanates from.

I hope I am not harsh but it is not a good practice.

regards,

Kishore patnaik

98492 70729

On Nov 16, 2007 9:17 PM, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:

> Dear Ms Margaret

>

> Thanks for the reply.

> Here are some more thoughts which came to my mind.5th house is also

> defined as Vak-Sthana.As we Know Vak originates from Nabhi(Navel)

> Region and is connected to Saraswati.That comes from mouth is also

> Vak but the audible form(4th order).This can be termed as Vachana as

> well as Vak.Perhaps origin of Vak is from Brahma Nabhi while

> Saraswati is manifested in 2nd.Guru is also the Karaka for the 5th

> house.The disciple also is represented by 5th house.Thus the effect

> and the Pathi can be explained from 2nd as well as 5th house.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> <%40>,

> " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

> >

> > Hi Pradeep,

> >

> > Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind of

> you

> > to take the time to write all that.

> > I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there usually

> is:-)

> > I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and

> Vaka,

> > but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little clouded.

> > best wishes

> > Margaret

> >

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> > <%40>

> > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> > Dear Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> > The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence

> i

> > need time.

> >

> > But i can give views.

> > In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> > synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word

> and

> > vachana can mean divine word as well.

> >

> > I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> > Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

> >

> > But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the

> very

> > root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> > get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

> >

> > Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

> mouth

> > has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can

> be

> > loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse

> is

> > also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> > Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of

> Knowledge.One

> > being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> > Vacha-Vachaspati.

> > Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> > Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

> for

> > Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

> > different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> > Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

> Vacha

> > with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> > conclusion.

> >

> > They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i

> need

> > to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the

> answer

> > is sufficient:-).

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > <%40>,

> " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thanks Pradeep.

> > > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was

> Vak,

> > are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > > -

> > > vijayadas_pradeep

> > > <%40>

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> > >

> > > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> > >

> > > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> > Jupiter.

> > > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> > Guru,Vachas

> > > pati etc are for Guru).

> > >

> > > Hope this helps.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > <%40>,

> " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> > another view.

> > > >

> > > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> > intended to

> > > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

> > it not

> > > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> > vicinity

> > > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus

> in

> > the

> > > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice,

> not

> > > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> > understand

> > > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator

> of

> > Vak,

> > > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> > evidence

> > > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been

> fully

> > > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

> > vedas

> > > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

> > used in

> > > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> > rather than

> > > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

> merits

> > of

> > > the source you quoted.

> > > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

> > just

> > > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

> the

> > time

> > > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> > considered

> > > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> > were a

> > > later development.

> > > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> > modern

> > > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> > saying

> > > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

> could

> > not

> > > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

> > and no

> > > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to

> be

> > an

> > > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the

> source

> > of

> > > your quote is?

> > > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

> more

> > than

> > > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> > Rajagopalachari

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > <%40>

> > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > > Dear Marg,

> > > >

> > > > Good to read your mail.

> > > >

> > > > Bad things first:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami

> day.

> > > This is so

> > > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> > more ,whereas

> > > Mercury

> > > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > > degrees- thus

> > > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of

> a

> > sign

> > > but here

> > > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

> got

> > to be

> > > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> > venus.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> > falls.It

> > > starts at

> > > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till

> 8.5

> > > muhurtha. As

> > > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

> > every

> > > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun

> in

> > > pisces and

> > > > lagna falling in cancer

> > > >

> > > > Now, the good things:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> > cosmological

> > > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

> > find

> > > a spark

> > > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

> > birth,

> > > though

> > > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent

> to

> > > Heavens

> > > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

> Rama's

> > times.

> > > > Please fill me up.

> > > >

> > > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > > >

> > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

> > > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

> interpretation

> > > in, and

> > > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

> Mercury?

> > > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules

> Taurus,

> > so

> > > Venus as

> > > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which

> is

> > > ruled by

> > > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> > Lord of

> > > Vak would

> > > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

> > abhijit

> > > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun

> with

> > the

> > > moon's

> > > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > > attention to an

> > > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect

> the

> > > expected usual

> > > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

> Ramayana,

> > a

> > > brilliant

> > > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> > > during the

> > > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by

> Trisanku,

> > > king of the

> > > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is

> an

> > > allegory of

> > > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

> you

> > think?

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Margaret

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

> > days.

> > > I am

> > > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > > the birth :

> > > > >

> > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

> 10

> > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam ||

> 1-

> > 18-11

> > > > >

> > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> > completion;

> > > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

> then;

> > > dvaadashe

> > > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

> chaitra

> > month

> > > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

> > the day

> > > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

> > swa uccha

> > > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > positing;

> > > karkaTe

> > > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> > > Speech's, Lord

> > > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > > raising ï¿½

> > > > > ascending, advancing daytime ï¿½ abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

> > Queen

> > > Kausalya;

> > > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> > namaskR^itam=

> > > by all,

> > > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine,

> attributes,

> > > along with;

> > > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

> > mahaa

> > > bhaagam=

> > > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> > > delight of;

> > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

> armed;

> > > rakta oSTam=

> > > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> > Rama

> > > as; putram=

> > > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > > >

> > > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> > > vakpati. Is it

> > > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

> > could

> > > not be

> > > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own)

> or

> > > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

> planets

> > > which are in

> > > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> > Saturn.

> > > While the

> > > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> > > planets places

> > > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> > cancer on a

> > > > > navami

> > > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

> > 108

> > > degrees.

> > > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

> > the

> > > place of

> > > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

> aries.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

> after

> > > hearing from

> > > > > all of you.

> > > > >

> > > > > with best regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > > 98492 70729

> > > > >

November 16, 2007

Dear pradeepji,

Please guide which God/Goddess to worship

for Rahu pacification ? AND

Which God/Goddess to worship for Jupiter

pacification ?

Please no other member reply this, before

Pradeepji replies,and I reply him back.

regards/Bhaskar.

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Ms Margaret

>

> Thanks for the reply.

> Here are some more thoughts which came to my mind.5th house is also

> defined as Vak-Sthana.As we Know Vak originates from Nabhi(Navel)

> Region and is connected to Saraswati.That comes from mouth is also

> Vak but the audible form(4th order).This can be termed as Vachana

as

> well as Vak.Perhaps origin of Vak is from Brahma Nabhi while

> Saraswati is manifested in 2nd.Guru is also the Karaka for the 5th

> house.The disciple also is represented by 5th house.Thus the effect

> and the Pathi can be explained from 2nd as well as 5th house.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi Pradeep,

> >

> > Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind

of

> you

> > to take the time to write all that.

> > I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there usually

> is:-)

> > I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and

> Vaka,

> > but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little clouded.

> > best wishes

> > Margaret

> >

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> > Dear Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> > The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and

hence

> i

> > need time.

> >

> > But i can give views.

> > In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> > synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word

> and

> > vachana can mean divine word as well.

> >

> > I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> > Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

> >

> > But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the

> very

> > root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> > get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

> >

> > Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

> mouth

> > has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can

> be

> > loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara -

Horse

> is

> > also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> > Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of

> Knowledge.One

> > being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> > Vacha-Vachaspati.

> > Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> > Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

> for

> > Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but

through

> > different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> > Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

> Vacha

> > with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> > conclusion.

> >

> > They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i

> need

> > to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the

> answer

> > is sufficient:-).

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thanks Pradeep.

> > > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was

> Vak,

> > are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > > -

> > > vijayadas_pradeep

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> > >

> > > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> > >

> > > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> > Jupiter.

> > > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> > Guru,Vachas

> > > pati etc are for Guru).

> > >

> > > Hope this helps.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> > another view.

> > > >

> > > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> > intended to

> > > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon.

Could

> > it not

> > > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> > vicinity

> > > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus

> in

> > the

> > > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice,

> not

> > > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> > understand

> > > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator

> of

> > Vak,

> > > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> > evidence

> > > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been

> fully

> > > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

> > vedas

> > > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

> > used in

> > > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> > rather than

> > > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

> merits

> > of

> > > the source you quoted.

> > > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

> > just

> > > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

> the

> > time

> > > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> > considered

> > > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> > were a

> > > later development.

> > > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> > modern

> > > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> > saying

> > > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

> could

> > not

> > > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to

be 'Apourusheya'

> > and no

> > > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to

> be

> > an

> > > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the

> source

> > of

> > > your quote is?

> > > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

> more

> > than

> > > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> > Rajagopalachari

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > > Dear Marg,

> > > >

> > > > Good to read your mail.

> > > >

> > > > Bad things first:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami

> day.

> > > This is so

> > > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> > more ,whereas

> > > Mercury

> > > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > > degrees- thus

> > > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of

> a

> > sign

> > > but here

> > > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

> got

> > to be

> > > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> > venus.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> > falls.It

> > > starts at

> > > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till

> 8.5

> > > muhurtha. As

> > > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

> > every

> > > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with

sun

> in

> > > pisces and

> > > > lagna falling in cancer

> > > >

> > > > Now, the good things:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> > cosmological

> > > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if

I

> > find

> > > a spark

> > > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

> > birth,

> > > though

> > > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be

sent

> to

> > > Heavens

> > > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

> Rama's

> > times.

> > > > Please fill me up.

> > > >

> > > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > > >

> > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

> > > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

> interpretation

> > > in, and

> > > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

> Mercury?

> > > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules

> Taurus,

> > so

> > > Venus as

> > > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair,

which

> is

> > > ruled by

> > > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> > Lord of

> > > Vak would

> > > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure.

Isn't

> > abhijit

> > > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun

> with

> > the

> > > moon's

> > > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > > attention to an

> > > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect

> the

> > > expected usual

> > > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

> Ramayana,

> > a

> > > brilliant

> > > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> > > during the

> > > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by

> Trisanku,

> > > king of the

> > > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers

is

> an

> > > allegory of

> > > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

> you

> > think?

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Margaret

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past

few

> > days.

> > > I am

> > > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > > the birth :

> > > > >

> > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-

8

> > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

> 10

> > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam

||

> 1-

> > 18-11

> > > > >

> > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> > completion;

> > > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

> then;

> > > dvaadashe

> > > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

> chaitra

> > month

> > > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star

of

> > the day

> > > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

> > swa uccha

> > > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > positing;

> > > karkaTe

> > > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha=

when

> > > Speech's, Lord

> > > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > > raising ï¿½

> > > > > ascending, advancing daytime ï¿½ abhijit lagna;

kausalyaa=

> > Queen

> > > Kausalya;

> > > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> > namaskR^itam=

> > > by all,

> > > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine,

> attributes,

> > > along with;

> > > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of

Vishnu];

> > mahaa

> > > bhaagam=

> > > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku

dynasty,

> > > delight of;

> > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

> armed;

> > > rakta oSTam=

> > > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> > Rama

> > > as; putram=

> > > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of

Navami

> > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > > >

> > > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> > > vakpati. Is it

> > > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since

Mercury

> > could

> > > not be

> > > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa

(own)

> or

> > > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

> planets

> > > which are in

> > > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> > Saturn.

> > > While the

> > > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other

three

> > > planets places

> > > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> > cancer on a

> > > > > navami

> > > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more

than

> > 108

> > > degrees.

> > > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces.

Thus,

> > the

> > > place of

> > > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

> aries.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

> after

> > > hearing from

> > > > > all of you.

> > > > >

> > > > > with best regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > > 98492 70729

> > > > >

November 16, 2007

Dear Pradeep

Thanks for attempting to discern the differnce and similarities between the two

expressions.

I still understand that Vak= voice, which is different to speech.

The interpretation of Valmiki depends upon substantial knowledge of history,

cultural and ethnic variations, semantics, etymology as well as sanskrit, and of

course a very expert knowledge of the epoch he lived in, and the politics of his

day.

best wishes

Marg

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Friday, November 16, 2007 3:47 PM