Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

[Guest guest]

Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

 

Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to Jupiter.

Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura Guru,Vachas

pati etc are for Guru).

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add another view.

>

> The translation you give seems to imply that it is not intended to

convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could it not

also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's vicinity

as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in the

vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not

speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't understand

the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of Vak,

sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any evidence

for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the vedas

had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as used in

jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, rather than

being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits of

the source you quoted.

> Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it just

telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the time

Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was considered

important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras were a

later development.

> Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a modern

practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is saying

there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could not

be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya' and no

liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be an

imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source of

your quote is?

> I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more than

I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by Rajagopalachari

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

>

> Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

>

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> Good to read your mail.

>

> Bad things first:

>

> 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

This is so

> since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas

Mercury

> can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

degrees- thus

> venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign

but here

> moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be

> jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus.

>

> 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It

starts at

> the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5

muhurtha. As

> every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every

> possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in

pisces and

> lagna falling in cancer

>

> Now, the good things:

>

> 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological

> meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find

a spark

> 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth,

though

> trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to

Heavens

> bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times.

> Please fill me up.

>

> Thnks for the mail once again,.

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

> On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Kishore

> > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation

in, and

> > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury?

> > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so

Venus as

> > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is

ruled by

> > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of

Vak would

> > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit

> > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the

moon's

> > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

attention to an

> > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the

expected usual

> > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a

brilliant

> > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

during the

> > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

king of the

> > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an

allegory of

> > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Margaret

> >

> > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days.

I am

> > giving below the slokas connected with

> > the birth :

> >

> > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11

> >

> > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion;

> > R^ituuNaam

> > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

dvaadashe

> > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month

> > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day

> > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha

> > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing;

karkaTe

> > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

Speech's, Lord

> > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

raising �

> > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen

Kausalya;

> > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam=

by all,

> > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

along with;

> > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa

bhaagam=

> > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

delight of;

> > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

rakta oSTam=

> > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama

as; putram=

> > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> >

> > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> >

> > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > 4. Moon is in lagna

> >

> > The following two points are to be discussed.

> >

> > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

vakpati. Is it

> > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could

not be

> > with Moon on a Navami day.

> >

> > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or

> > uccha(exalted)

> > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets

which are in

> > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> >

> > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn.

While the

> > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

planets places

> > can be fixed only by discussion

> >

> > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a

> > navami

> > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108

degrees.

> > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the

place of

> > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries.

> >

> > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after

hearing from

> > all of you.

> >

> > with best regards,

> >

> > kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pradeep.

I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was Vak, are the two the

same? Vak means Vacha?

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

 

Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to Jupiter.

Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura Guru,Vachas

pati etc are for Guru).

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add another view.

>

> The translation you give seems to imply that it is not intended to

convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could it not

also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's vicinity

as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in the

vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not

speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't understand

the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of Vak,

sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any evidence

for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the vedas

had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as used in

jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, rather than

being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits of

the source you quoted.

> Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it just

telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the time

Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was considered

important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras were a

later development.

> Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a modern

practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is saying

there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could not

be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya' and no

liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be an

imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source of

your quote is?

> I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more than

I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by Rajagopalachari

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

>

> Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

>

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> Good to read your mail.

>

> Bad things first:

>

> 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

This is so

> since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas

Mercury

> can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

degrees- thus

> venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign

but here

> moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be

> jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus.

>

> 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It

starts at

> the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5

muhurtha. As

> every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every

> possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in

pisces and

> lagna falling in cancer

>

> Now, the good things:

>

> 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological

> meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find

a spark

> 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth,

though

> trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to

Heavens

> bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times.

> Please fill me up.

>

> Thnks for the mail once again,.

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

> On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Kishore

> > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation

in, and

> > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury?

> > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so

Venus as

> > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is

ruled by

> > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of

Vak would

> > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit

> > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the

moon's

> > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

attention to an

> > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the

expected usual

> > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a

brilliant

> > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

during the

> > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

king of the

> > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an

allegory of

> > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Margaret

> >

> > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days.

I am

> > giving below the slokas connected with

> > the birth :

> >

> > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11

> >

> > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion;

> > R^ituuNaam

> > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

dvaadashe

> > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month

> > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day

> > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha

> > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing;

karkaTe

> > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

Speech's, Lord

> > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

raising �

> > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen

Kausalya;

> > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam=

by all,

> > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

along with;

> > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa

bhaagam=

> > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

delight of;

> > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

rakta oSTam=

> > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama

as; putram=

> > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> >

> > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> >

> > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > 4. Moon is in lagna

> >

> > The following two points are to be discussed.

> >

> > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

vakpati. Is it

> > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could

not be

> > with Moon on a Navami day.

> >

> > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or

> > uccha(exalted)

> > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets

which are in

> > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> >

> > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn.

While the

> > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

planets places

> > can be fixed only by discussion

> >

> > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a

> > navami

> > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108

degrees.

> > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the

place of

> > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries.

> >

> > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after

hearing from

> > all of you.

> >

> > with best regards,

> >

> > kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I find it interesting that this google snippet arrives today when I was

conveying that the astronmer contact said there were 28 constellation used in

vedic times. If you follow this link it tells of another system of astrology

which also uses 28 asterisms

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn:80/showarticle.php?num=01BOO101107

-

Marg

Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:53 PM

Re: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

Thanks Pradeep.

I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was Vak, are the two

the same? Vak means Vacha?

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

 

Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to Jupiter.

Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura Guru,Vachas

pati etc are for Guru).

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add another view.

>

> The translation you give seems to imply that it is not intended to

convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could it not

also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's vicinity

as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in the

vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not

speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't understand

the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of Vak,

sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any evidence

for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the vedas

had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as used in

jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, rather than

being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits of

the source you quoted.

> Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it just

telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the time

Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was considered

important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras were a

later development.

> Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a modern

practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is saying

there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could not

be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya' and no

liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be an

imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source of

your quote is?

> I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more than

I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by Rajagopalachari

>

>

>

>

>

> -

> kishore patnaik

>

> Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

>

>

> Dear Marg,

>

> Good to read your mail.

>

> Bad things first:

>

> 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

This is so

> since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas

Mercury

> can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

degrees- thus

> venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign

but here

> moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be

> jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus.

>

> 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It

starts at

> the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5

muhurtha. As

> every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every

> possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in

pisces and

> lagna falling in cancer

>

> Now, the good things:

>

> 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological

> meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find

a spark

> 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth,

though

> trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to

Heavens

> bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times.

> Please fill me up.

>

> Thnks for the mail once again,.

>

> Kishore patnaik

> 98492 70729

>

> On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Kishore

> > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation

in, and

> > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury?

> > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so

Venus as

> > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is

ruled by

> > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of

Vak would

> > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit

> > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the

moon's

> > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

attention to an

> > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the

expected usual

> > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a

brilliant

> > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

during the

> > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

king of the

> > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an

allegory of

> > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think?

> >

> > best wishes

> > Margaret

> >

> > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days.

I am

> > giving below the slokas connected with

> > the birth :

> >

> > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11

> >

> > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion;

> > R^ituuNaam

> > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

dvaadashe

> > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month

> > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day

> > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha

> > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing;

karkaTe

> > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

Speech's, Lord

> > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

raising �

> > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen

Kausalya;

> > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam=

by all,

> > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

along with;

> > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa

bhaagam=

> > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

delight of;

> > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

rakta oSTam=

> > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama

as; putram=

> > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> >

> > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> >

> > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > 4. Moon is in lagna

> >

> > The following two points are to be discussed.

> >

> > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

vakpati. Is it

> > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could

not be

> > with Moon on a Navami day.

> >

> > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or

> > uccha(exalted)

> > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets

which are in

> > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> >

> > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn.

While the

> > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

planets places

> > can be fixed only by discussion

> >

> > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a

> > navami

> > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108

degrees.

> > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the

place of

> > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries.

> >

> > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after

hearing from

> > all of you.

> >

> > with best regards,

> >

> > kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

vedic astrology is aware of the 28th asterism. that is the abhijit asterism.

that is common knowledge. it is the Arabic astrology that held onto that

asterism. it was also present in ancient Babylonian astrology as well.

please comment if wrong or I need an enlightening reminder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________

 

Raja G. Gursahani

*: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

*: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Babylonian astrology begun its invent in the 2nd century BC.

At the most it could have originated 600 BC

Prior to these dates, mostly Omens were used as observations

to predict by them.

They may have had knowledge of the constellations, but

there is no source available which relates

that they had assimilated the 27 asterisms

as we know of them today, the way Vedic people have

done this.

The earliest reference to Arabian astronomy-astrology (???)

enters in the 8th century.

 

Our Vedic astrology can be referred to the times the

Vedas were written. Even Ramayana mentions certain

position of the Planets ( If I am not mistaken)

which showed of a impending uncertainty at time

of crowning ( ???). Same in Mahabharata.

 

Now if someone has to prove that some other country

has invented or discovered the Asterisms

before the Ramayana and Mahabharata era,

then they need to

bring forth the classics of that country with the dates

when they were written, which could prove the claim that

these countries knew about the 27(28) constellations

before the Vedic people discovered them.

 

The above revelations may be bettered by some

research oriented person, and by no means do

I intend not to acknowledge the contributions

of the Great Persians, Arabians and the Babylonians

who too have done a lot for the good of this great

Divine Science in their own ways

 

I think this topic would unnecessary open many

pockets which would be difficult to fill without

some heat created. What difference does it make now

to us who are destined to be put to dust after a few years

or more . We would also become history. Let us become

a good part of future history, instead of digging graves.

 

regards/Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> vedic astrology is aware of the 28th asterism. that is the abhijit

asterism.

> that is common knowledge. it is the Arabic astrology that held onto

that

> asterism. it was also present in ancient Babylonian astrology as

well.

> please comment if wrong or I need an enlightening reminder.

>

__________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Please give us the references which show that the Arabians

held to the Abhijit Nakshatra, and also the reference ,

which shows that it was present in the babylonian

astrology as well.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> vedic astrology is aware of the 28th asterism. that is the abhijit

asterism.

> that is common knowledge. it is the Arabic astrology that held onto

that

> asterism. it was also present in ancient Babylonian astrology as

well.

> please comment if wrong or I need an enlightening reminder.

>

__________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Raja

The Chinese use 28 asterisms also, in fact some astrological scholars believe

that the use of the 28 mansions was brought over to India and Arabia during the

Buddha's time during a great cultural interchange.

The Chinese use a five season year.

Chinese astrology is so very old that they have twice designated another star as

the pole star.

Given it has taken 4800 years for Thuban to move away and now for Polaris to

occupy the North Pole central position, this is quite some record keeping for

the Chinese if they have had to twice designate another star as their polar

reference.

It's amazing how astrological and astronomical knowledge can be enhanced by

studying the different systems, though of course it would be impossible to

master all of them I expect?

 

best wishes

margaret

 

 

-

Raja Gursahani

Monday, November 12, 2007 5:29 PM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

vedic astrology is aware of the 28th asterism. that is the abhijit asterism.

that is common knowledge. it is the Arabic astrology that held onto that

asterism. it was also present in ancient Babylonian astrology as well.

please comment if wrong or I need an enlightening reminder.

 

________

 

Raja G. Gursahani

*: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

*: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Marg,

 

Please let us know whether Buddha was older or

the Vedic era was older.,

and also whether Vedic era if it was before

the dawn of Buddha, were the ancient Vedic

civilisation not aware of the Asterisms ?

 

The Chinese have twice designated another

star as the Pole star . Did the Pole star

change position or was a new star given the

same designation ? Or did the Chniese

record the same Pole star in its long

span of change of position continously is

what You mean to say ? So how does this

recording make adeptthem good in Predictive

astrology ,and what should we learn from

them, so that we can better our learning

from the Vedic astrology ?

 

The use of the 28 mansions was brought to

India and Arabia during Buddhas time, is

news to me. Please give us the reference.

 

I can giveyou the refrence that on the

contrary that this knowledge was bought

to Arabia ny the Indians. But I

wont waste time over here.

 

Because there is nothing to prove,

there is nothing to gain even

if it is proved. only time is wasted.

Upmanship is prevalent throughout

and trying to support and side faulty

utterances. What is the sense of this

thread I am still unable to understand. It

gives a feel like a bunch missioanries are

trying to corrupt the people for

conversion with baseless unsupported talks,

claims and statements.

 

Bhaskar.

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> HI Raja

> The Chinese use 28 asterisms also, in fact some astrological

scholars believe that the use of the 28 mansions was brought over to

India and Arabia during the Buddha's time during a great cultural

interchange.

> The Chinese use a five season year.

> Chinese astrology is so very old that they have twice designated

another star as the pole star.

> Given it has taken 4800 years for Thuban to move away and now for

Polaris to occupy the North Pole central position, this is quite some

record keeping for the Chinese if they have had to twice designate

another star as their polar reference.

> It's amazing how astrological and astronomical knowledge can be

enhanced by studying the different systems, though of course it would

be impossible to master all of them I expect?

>

> best wishes

> margaret

>

>

> -

> Raja Gursahani

>

> Monday, November 12, 2007 5:29 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> vedic astrology is aware of the 28th asterism. that is the

abhijit asterism.

> that is common knowledge. it is the Arabic astrology that held

onto that

> asterism. it was also present in ancient Babylonian astrology as

well.

> please comment if wrong or I need an enlightening reminder.

>

> ________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bhaskar,

 

 

 

please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some discrepancy here.

what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the 28th asterism as

well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well. however the

main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates this and is

seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha Brahmana. The

first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha.

 

 

 

__________

 

Raja G. Gursahani

*: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

*: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

If You say that its origin predates to Vedanga

Jyotish Period, then theres no bone of contention

between us and if you say that the Arabs adopted

the 28th asterism, I still have no

bone of contention., but if you say vice versa

then it becomes difficult to digest, because

the Father of a Honourable child cannot be

changed. It would remain one only.In this

case our Vedic Jyotish culture is the Father

of the 28 asterisms., without doubt and

none can take claim over that.

 

So all arguments over now , I hope no

more discussions further on this.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> Bhaskar,

>

>

>

> please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some discrepancy

here.

> what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the 28th

asterism as

> well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well.

however the

> main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates this

and is

> seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha

Brahmana. The

> first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of

Lagadha.

>

>

>

> __________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

 

According to the famous a astrologer of Kerala,Bramashri Mithran

Namboodiripad, Lord Ram's birth on Navmi thidi on punarvasu asterism is correct.

In every 120 years, there is 30 seconds less in the rotation of the Earth. If

this has taken into acccount, the Navmi will come over Punartham star 12800

years ago. It reinforces that Lord Ram was born 12800 years ago. I request

the learnt members like Sri Bhaskar and other of this group have look into this

method and am sure you will be able to crack the ambiquity on the chart to Sri

Lord Rama.

 

It is infeasible to measure Lord Rama's chart with current planetry positions.

 

Thansk and best regards,

Raj

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

If You say that its origin predates to Vedanga

Jyotish Period, then theres no bone of contention

between us and if you say that the Arabs adopted

the 28th asterism, I still have no

bone of contention., but if you say vice versa

then it becomes difficult to digest, because

the Father of a Honourable child cannot be

changed. It would remain one only.In this

case our Vedic Jyotish culture is the Father

of the 28 asterisms., without doubt and

none can take claim over that.

 

So all arguments over now , I hope no

more discussions further on this.

 

Bhaskar.

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> Bhaskar,

>

>

>

> please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some discrepancy

here.

> what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the 28th

asterism as

> well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well.

however the

> main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates this

and is

> seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha

Brahmana. The

> first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of

Lagadha.

>

>

>

> ________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar,

 

As I said earlier the Chinese also use 28 lunar mansions and have done for

thousands of years. Please feel free to ignore future discussions of this by

those astrologers who find exchange of ideas promotes udnerstanding and

overcomes ignorance and bigotry. Most good astrologers want the truth, its as

simple as that.

best wishes

Margaret

-

RAJA NAIR

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:14 AM

Re: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

Dear Friends,

 

According to the famous a astrologer of Kerala,Bramashri Mithran

Namboodiripad, Lord Ram's birth on Navmi thidi on punarvasu asterism is correct.

In every 120 years, there is 30 seconds less in the rotation of the Earth. If

this has taken into acccount, the Navmi will come over Punartham star 12800

years ago. It reinforces that Lord Ram was born 12800 years ago. I request the

learnt members like Sri Bhaskar and other of this group have look into this

method and am sure you will be able to crack the ambiquity on the chart to Sri

Lord Rama.

 

It is infeasible to measure Lord Rama's chart with current planetry positions.

 

Thansk and best regards,

Raj

 

 

 

 

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

If You say that its origin predates to Vedanga

Jyotish Period, then theres no bone of contention

between us and if you say that the Arabs adopted

the 28th asterism, I still have no

bone of contention., but if you say vice versa

then it becomes difficult to digest, because

the Father of a Honourable child cannot be

changed. It would remain one only.In this

case our Vedic Jyotish culture is the Father

of the 28 asterisms., without doubt and

none can take claim over that.

 

So all arguments over now , I hope no

more discussions further on this.

 

Bhaskar.

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> Bhaskar,

>

>

>

> please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some discrepancy

here.

> what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the 28th

asterism as

> well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well.

however the

> main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates this

and is

> seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha

Brahmana. The

> first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of

Lagadha.

>

>

>

> ________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nairji,

 

Thank You.

This and other few reasons is what I was hinting

at in my previous mails. Which is why the Horoscope

as we know it, does not match in the parameters of

the modern day.

For any research oriented person who has the

luxury of time, in his hand, he may go for

extensive study into these reasons.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>

> As I said earlier the Chinese also use 28 lunar mansions and have

done for thousands of years. Please feel free to ignore future

discussions of this by those astrologers who find exchange of ideas

promotes udnerstanding and overcomes ignorance and bigotry. Most good

astrologers want the truth, its as simple as that.

> best wishes

> Margaret

> -

> RAJA NAIR

>

> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:14 AM

> Re: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> According to the famous a astrologer of Kerala,Bramashri Mithran

Namboodiripad, Lord Ram's birth on Navmi thidi on punarvasu asterism

is correct. In every 120 years, there is 30 seconds less in the

rotation of the Earth. If this has taken into acccount, the Navmi

will come over Punartham star 12800 years ago. It reinforces that

Lord Ram was born 12800 years ago. I request the learnt members like

Sri Bhaskar and other of this group have look into this method and am

sure you will be able to crack the ambiquity on the chart to Sri Lord

Rama.

>

> It is infeasible to measure Lord Rama's chart with current

planetry positions.

>

> Thansk and best regards,

> Raj

>

>

>

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> If You say that its origin predates to Vedanga

> Jyotish Period, then theres no bone of contention

> between us and if you say that the Arabs adopted

> the 28th asterism, I still have no

> bone of contention., but if you say vice versa

> then it becomes difficult to digest, because

> the Father of a Honourable child cannot be

> changed. It would remain one only.In this

> case our Vedic Jyotish culture is the Father

> of the 28 asterisms., without doubt and

> none can take claim over that.

>

> So all arguments over now , I hope no

> more discussions further on this.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Raja Gursahani "

> <rajagursahani@> wrote:

> >

> > Bhaskar,

> >

> >

> >

> > please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some

discrepancy

> here.

> > what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the

28th

> asterism as

> > well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well.

> however the

> > main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates

this

> and is

> > seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha

> Brahmana. The

> > first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of

> Lagadha.

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> >

> > Raja G. Gursahani

> > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Margaret,

 

Uptil now we were talking about

the asterisms. Now the term has been

changed into lunar mansions. I

hope it means the same thing, in the

context, we are talking of.

 

Just by Your saying, one cannot believe

that the Chinese knew about these 28

Lunar mansions, and have used this

for thousands of years, does not

make it the truth.

 

You advised me to ignore future

discussions of this by those astrologers

who find exchange of ideas promotes

understanding and overcomes ignorance

and bigotry

 

But one cannot ignore the untruth told as the truth.

 

If You want us to believe what You are saying, come

out with the references, dated back before the

Vedic culture, in the Chinese astrological

treatises, otherwise dont try to push

the untruth as truth , on us, just because you

said so.

 

A feeling rendered by an individual does

not stand as truth or reality, but

authentic data served as presentation stands

as the truth, whih only

has to be believed and not any

individuals limited understanding or biased

belief and opinion.

 

I hope in future whatever declarations

you make as such, would be supported

by commensurated and supplementated

data to prove your declarations.

 

And I am sure you will not be able to prove

about what You have said about the Chinese.

 

regards,

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Dear Bhaskar,

>

> As I said earlier the Chinese also use 28 lunar mansions and have

done for thousands of years. Please feel free to ignore future

discussions of this by those astrologers who find exchange of ideas

promotes udnerstanding and overcomes ignorance and bigotry. Most good

astrologers want the truth, its as simple as that.

> best wishes

> Margaret

> -

> RAJA NAIR

>

> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:14 AM

> Re: Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> Dear Friends,

>

> According to the famous a astrologer of Kerala,Bramashri Mithran

Namboodiripad, Lord Ram's birth on Navmi thidi on punarvasu asterism

is correct. In every 120 years, there is 30 seconds less in the

rotation of the Earth. If this has taken into acccount, the Navmi

will come over Punartham star 12800 years ago. It reinforces that

Lord Ram was born 12800 years ago. I request the learnt members like

Sri Bhaskar and other of this group have look into this method and am

sure you will be able to crack the ambiquity on the chart to Sri Lord

Rama.

>

> It is infeasible to measure Lord Rama's chart with current

planetry positions.

>

> Thansk and best regards,

> Raj

>

>

>

>

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:

> If You say that its origin predates to Vedanga

> Jyotish Period, then theres no bone of contention

> between us and if you say that the Arabs adopted

> the 28th asterism, I still have no

> bone of contention., but if you say vice versa

> then it becomes difficult to digest, because

> the Father of a Honourable child cannot be

> changed. It would remain one only.In this

> case our Vedic Jyotish culture is the Father

> of the 28 asterisms., without doubt and

> none can take claim over that.

>

> So all arguments over now , I hope no

> more discussions further on this.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Raja Gursahani "

> <rajagursahani@> wrote:

> >

> > Bhaskar,

> >

> >

> >

> > please explain about the 28th asterism if there is some

discrepancy

> here.

> > what I was saying was that the Arabic astrology adopted the

28th

> asterism as

> > well. Babylonian astrology also must have adopted it as well.

> however the

> > main reference for this asterism meaning its origin predates

this

> and is

> > seen in the Taittiriya Samhita and also in the Shatapatha

> Brahmana. The

> > first astronomy text that lists them is the Vedanga Jyotisha of

> Lagadha.

> >

> >

> >

> > ________

> >

> > Raja G. Gursahani

> > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that a group of

astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound conclusions then one

person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like please read

the following book which how I have come to this conclusion ( the wisdom of

crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer and rebuttal to

Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus even the

greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I would like

Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant doesn't give

him the power to control others as he really seems to think that the leo

ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light because if he

could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not controlling this

situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to bully us into

submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum in such a

manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this forum has lost

its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is dictated by a

totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer and individual

he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own discussion, but

instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he has been given

the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he continues to act like

this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the group will

convene in naturally and discipline him.

 

 

 

sincerely,

 

 

 

__________

 

Raja G. Gursahani

*: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

*: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mr. Raja,

 

A Group of astrologers, right but not two idiots.

 

All know here that You are a first class idiot in astrology,

and spoiling name of this divine science and absolutely

unfit for same, which we have seen in your mails through

last so many months. I am feeling ashamed why I have

wasted my time in replying foolish people like you.

 

No body is trying to bully you or anyone here.

Dont use such type of language. This is not a childrens

playground. You are not worth bullying.

And what is the truth cmon please guide us properly

if you know it. Just because You or Marg said so, does

not mean that it becomes the Gospel.

 

I have forgiven you many times , at least a dozen times

for your trespasses, but you are shamelessly coming up

with idiotic insinuations and allegations. Stupidity

too has its limits. I have given you few mails

yesterday to answer, and instead of answering them, you

show your childlessness and ignorance by talking all other

rubbish apart from astrology. How do brainless and tactless

people get books on astrology to read, I am unable to

understand.

 

Dont make rubbish statements with no head or tail and expect

people to accept it as the truth.

 

And dont reply this mail please. Replying to you

back is like giving milk to a snake.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " Raja Gursahani "

<rajagursahani wrote:

>

> yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that a

group of

> astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound conclusions then

one

> person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like

please read

> the following book which how I have come to this conclusion ( the

wisdom of

> crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer and

rebuttal to

> Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus even

the

> greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I would

like

> Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant

doesn't give

> him the power to control others as he really seems to think that

the leo

> ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light

because if he

> could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not controlling

this

> situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to bully

us into

> submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum in

such a

> manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this forum

has lost

> its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is dictated by a

> totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer and

individual

> he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

discussion, but

> instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he has

been given

> the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he continues to

act like

> this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the group

will

> convene in naturally and discipline him.

>

>

>

> sincerely,

>

>

>

> __________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ms.Margaret

 

Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence i

need time.

 

But i can give views.

In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word and

vachana can mean divine word as well.

 

I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

 

But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the very

root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

 

Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads mouth

has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can be

loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse is

also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of Knowledge.One

being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

Vacha-Vachaspati.

Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered for

Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate Vacha

with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

conclusion.

 

They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i need

to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the answer

is sufficient:-).

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Thanks Pradeep.

> I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was Vak,

are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

>

> Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

Jupiter.

> Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

Guru,Vachas

> pati etc are for Guru).

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

another view.

> >

> > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

intended to

> convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

it not

> also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

vicinity

> as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in

the

> vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not

> speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

understand

> the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of

Vak,

> sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

evidence

> for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

> defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

vedas

> had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

used in

> jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

rather than

> being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits

of

> the source you quoted.

> > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

just

> telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the

time

> Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

considered

> important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

were a

> later development.

> > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

modern

> practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

saying

> there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could

not

> be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

and no

> liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be

an

> imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source

of

> your quote is?

> > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more

than

> I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

Rajagopalachari

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > kishore patnaik

> >

> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> >

> >

> > Dear Marg,

> >

> > Good to read your mail.

> >

> > Bad things first:

> >

> > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

> This is so

> > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

more ,whereas

> Mercury

> > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> degrees- thus

> > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a

sign

> but here

> > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got

to be

> > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

venus.

> >

> > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

falls.It

> starts at

> > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5

> muhurtha. As

> > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

every

> > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in

> pisces and

> > lagna falling in cancer

> >

> > Now, the good things:

> >

> > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

cosmological

> > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

find

> a spark

> > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

birth,

> though

> > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to

> Heavens

> > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's

times.

> > Please fill me up.

> >

> > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Kishore

> > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation

> in, and

> > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury?

> > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus,

so

> Venus as

> > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is

> ruled by

> > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

Lord of

> Vak would

> > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

abhijit

> > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with

the

> moon's

> > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> attention to an

> > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the

> expected usual

> > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana,

a

> brilliant

> > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> during the

> > > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

> king of the

> > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an

> allegory of

> > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you

think?

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > > Margaret

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

days.

> I am

> > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > the birth :

> > >

> > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-

18-11

> > >

> > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

completion;

> > > R^ituuNaam

> > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

> dvaadashe

> > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra

month

> > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

the day

> > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

swa uccha

> > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

positing;

> karkaTe

> > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> Speech's, Lord

> > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> raising �

> > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

Queen

> Kausalya;

> > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

namaskR^itam=

> by all,

> > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

> along with;

> > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

mahaa

> bhaagam=

> > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> delight of;

> > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

> rakta oSTam=

> > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

Rama

> as; putram=

> > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > >

> > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > >

> > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > >

> > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > >

> > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> vakpati. Is it

> > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

could

> not be

> > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > >

> > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or

> > > uccha(exalted)

> > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets

> which are in

> > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > >

> > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

Saturn.

> While the

> > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> planets places

> > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > >

> > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

cancer on a

> > > navami

> > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

108

> degrees.

> > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

the

> place of

> > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries.

> > >

> > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after

> hearing from

> > > all of you.

> > >

> > > with best regards,

> > >

> > > kishore patnaik

> > > 98492 70729

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this topic in a more

informative and intelligent way.

First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit translation of Valmikis

includes a reference to Karke?

Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the following are

actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and kendra?

best wishes

M

 

-

Raja Gursahani

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that a group of

astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound conclusions then one

person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like please read

the following book which how I have come to this conclusion ( the wisdom of

crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer and rebuttal to

Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus even the

greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I would like

Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant doesn't give

him the power to control others as he really seems to think that the leo

ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light because if he

could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not controlling this

situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to bully us into

submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum in such a

manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this forum has lost

its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is dictated by a

totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer and individual

he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own discussion, but

instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he has been given

the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he continues to act like

this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the group will

convene in naturally and discipline him.

 

sincerely,

 

________

 

Raja G. Gursahani

*: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

*: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

 

[Guest guest]

What a intelligent way to explore topics in a

more informative and intelligent way.

 

What a intelligent thread and topic to open, the

outcome of which would increase

our astrological level to a super level (???)

 

First your friend raja opens a stupid thread and then backs

out saying that he had written it hurriedly.

In the meanwhile you express your love, by supporting him

and declaring that the Chinese already knew about the 28

asterisms thousands of years ago, and they have been

using it since them. On asking you to support this

declaration with some authentic proof, and your inability

to produce the same, you jump on some other silly topic ,

so that we forget your past stupid declarations.

 

You are asking us why Valmiki gives reference to Karka ?

You never paused to think that we could also ask you why

Moses was named as he was in the Bible, and why

The Last Supper was named so, or why the

Holy Spirit is mentioned so, or why Virgin Mary

was mentioned so, when Lord Jesus Christ was.......

 

Now listen Margaret, dont stir up a hornets nest by

talking rubbish here.

Do not try any conversions here or try to confuse

the devout religious astrologers over here. Take your

baggage somewhere else with this filth.and

You are quite obvious in You anti Hindu stance.

 

Tomorrow you would ask us why the Greeks use

" Padre " word for Father or " Madre " for mother.

By reading few books do not try to appear as

knowledgable where there is none and only thrash

exists.

 

Anyway what are you trying to prove by these

senseless queries ? Your little knowledge of

Sanskrit which is non-existent ?

You should have done some homework

before putting this post here instead of looking

utterly stupid.

 

Now for your benefit, after which I expect you

to whamoosh with your dirty baggage ,please.

 

Sanskrit Meanings for " Karka "

1) Crab

2) Cancer ,the 4th sign of the Zodiac.

3) Fire.

4) A water jar.

5) A mirror.

6) A white horse.

 

Now dont ask us another silly question

as to why in this particular shloka

Karka means Cancer.

 

There is another word " Karkata "

with similiar meanings but add

one more meaning to it

1) A compass, circuit.

 

Okay You got the meanings. Now what great discovery

are you upto or some light dawning on us with some

super revelation by Your Smart self ?

 

panaphera, apoklima and kendra are Sanskrit or not ?

What difference does it make ?

A rose would remain a Rose by

whatever name You call it.

What are you trying to arrive at here ?

 

Next time please come

with useful posts on astrology,

which actually help the Science and the practising

astrologers, and do not open up confusions or

controversies.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this topic in

a more informative and intelligent way.

> First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit translation

of Valmikis includes a reference to Karke?

> Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

> Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

> Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the

following are actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and kendra?

> best wishes

> M

>

> -

> Raja Gursahani

>

> Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that a

group of

> astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound conclusions

then one

> person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like

please read

> the following book which how I have come to this conclusion ( the

wisdom of

> crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer and

rebuttal to

> Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus even

the

> greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I

would like

> Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant

doesn't give

> him the power to control others as he really seems to think that

the leo

> ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light

because if he

> could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not controlling

this

> situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to

bully us into

> submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum in

such a

> manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this forum

has lost

> its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is dictated

by a

> totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer and

individual

> he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

discussion, but

> instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he has

been given

> the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he continues

to act like

> this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the

group will

> convene in naturally and discipline him.

>

> sincerely,

>

> ________

>

> Raja G. Gursahani

> *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are not talking astrology here, but

trying to prove that Indians borrowed words

from other civilisations.

So what is there about it I cant understand.

Mixture of cultures is nothing new, and so

is language, but this certainly does

not imply that the knowledge of asterisms

was taken from some outer influence.

Period.

 

Bhaskar.

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> What a intelligent way to explore topics in a

> more informative and intelligent way.

>

> What a intelligent thread and topic to open, the

> outcome of which would increase

> our astrological level to a super level (???)

>

> First your friend raja opens a stupid thread and then backs

> out saying that he had written it hurriedly.

> In the meanwhile you express your love, by supporting him

> and declaring that the Chinese already knew about the 28

> asterisms thousands of years ago, and they have been

> using it since them. On asking you to support this

> declaration with some authentic proof, and your inability

> to produce the same, you jump on some other silly topic ,

> so that we forget your past stupid declarations.

>

> You are asking us why Valmiki gives reference to Karka ?

> You never paused to think that we could also ask you why

> Moses was named as he was in the Bible, and why

> The Last Supper was named so, or why the

> Holy Spirit is mentioned so, or why Virgin Mary

> was mentioned so, when Lord Jesus Christ was.......

>

> Now listen Margaret, dont stir up a hornets nest by

> talking rubbish here.

> Do not try any conversions here or try to confuse

> the devout religious astrologers over here. Take your

> baggage somewhere else with this filth.and

> You are quite obvious in You anti Hindu stance.

>

> Tomorrow you would ask us why the Greeks use

> " Padre " word for Father or " Madre " for mother.

> By reading few books do not try to appear as

> knowledgable where there is none and only thrash

> exists.

>

> Anyway what are you trying to prove by these

> senseless queries ? Your little knowledge of

> Sanskrit which is non-existent ?

> You should have done some homework

> before putting this post here instead of looking

> utterly stupid.

>

> Now for your benefit, after which I expect you

> to whamoosh with your dirty baggage ,please.

>

> Sanskrit Meanings for " Karka "

> 1) Crab

> 2) Cancer ,the 4th sign of the Zodiac.

> 3) Fire.

> 4) A water jar.

> 5) A mirror.

> 6) A white horse.

>

> Now dont ask us another silly question

> as to why in this particular shloka

> Karka means Cancer.

>

> There is another word " Karkata "

> with similiar meanings but add

> one more meaning to it

> 1) A compass, circuit.

>

> Okay You got the meanings. Now what great discovery

> are you upto or some light dawning on us with some

> super revelation by Your Smart self ?

>

> panaphera, apoklima and kendra are Sanskrit or not ?

> What difference does it make ?

> A rose would remain a Rose by

> whatever name You call it.

> What are you trying to arrive at here ?

>

> Next time please come

> with useful posts on astrology,

> which actually help the Science and the practising

> astrologers, and do not open up confusions or

> controversies.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

, " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this topic

in

> a more informative and intelligent way.

> > First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit

translation

> of Valmikis includes a reference to Karke?

> > Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

> > Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

> > Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the

> following are actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and kendra?

> > best wishes

> > M

> >

> > -

> > Raja Gursahani

> >

> > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> >

> > yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that a

> group of

> > astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound conclusions

> then one

> > person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like

> please read

> > the following book which how I have come to this conclusion (

the

> wisdom of

> > crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer and

> rebuttal to

> > Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus

even

> the

> > greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I

> would like

> > Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant

> doesn't give

> > him the power to control others as he really seems to think

that

> the leo

> > ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light

> because if he

> > could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not

controlling

> this

> > situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to

> bully us into

> > submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum

in

> such a

> > manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this

forum

> has lost

> > its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is dictated

> by a

> > totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer and

> individual

> > he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

> discussion, but

> > instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he

has

> been given

> > the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he continues

> to act like

> > this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the

> group will

> > convene in naturally and discipline him.

> >

> > sincerely,

> >

> > ________

> >

> > Raja G. Gursahani

> > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskar ji,

 

Why to debate with those who are just annoying the topic.

 

One person from chennai developed some software and quoted that

Prabhu Shri Ram was borned on 10th janurary 5100 BC.

i donot know what the way he followed , but it was coming on Star

news.

 

So manipulation and giving fire to topics is a measure to obtain

popularity.

 

If we start to question on existence of Christian base of God and

other topics, no one would be able to answer.

 

Regards,

 

Tarun

 

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> You are not talking astrology here, but

> trying to prove that Indians borrowed words

> from other civilisations.

> So what is there about it I cant understand.

> Mixture of cultures is nothing new, and so

> is language, but this certainly does

> not imply that the knowledge of asterisms

> was taken from some outer influence.

> Period.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > What a intelligent way to explore topics in a

> > more informative and intelligent way.

> >

> > What a intelligent thread and topic to open, the

> > outcome of which would increase

> > our astrological level to a super level (???)

> >

> > First your friend raja opens a stupid thread and then backs

> > out saying that he had written it hurriedly.

> > In the meanwhile you express your love, by supporting him

> > and declaring that the Chinese already knew about the 28

> > asterisms thousands of years ago, and they have been

> > using it since them. On asking you to support this

> > declaration with some authentic proof, and your inability

> > to produce the same, you jump on some other silly topic ,

> > so that we forget your past stupid declarations.

> >

> > You are asking us why Valmiki gives reference to Karka ?

> > You never paused to think that we could also ask you why

> > Moses was named as he was in the Bible, and why

> > The Last Supper was named so, or why the

> > Holy Spirit is mentioned so, or why Virgin Mary

> > was mentioned so, when Lord Jesus Christ was.......

> >

> > Now listen Margaret, dont stir up a hornets nest by

> > talking rubbish here.

> > Do not try any conversions here or try to confuse

> > the devout religious astrologers over here. Take your

> > baggage somewhere else with this filth.and

> > You are quite obvious in You anti Hindu stance.

> >

> > Tomorrow you would ask us why the Greeks use

> > " Padre " word for Father or " Madre " for mother.

> > By reading few books do not try to appear as

> > knowledgable where there is none and only thrash

> > exists.

> >

> > Anyway what are you trying to prove by these

> > senseless queries ? Your little knowledge of

> > Sanskrit which is non-existent ?

> > You should have done some homework

> > before putting this post here instead of looking

> > utterly stupid.

> >

> > Now for your benefit, after which I expect you

> > to whamoosh with your dirty baggage ,please.

> >

> > Sanskrit Meanings for " Karka "

> > 1) Crab

> > 2) Cancer ,the 4th sign of the Zodiac.

> > 3) Fire.

> > 4) A water jar.

> > 5) A mirror.

> > 6) A white horse.

> >

> > Now dont ask us another silly question

> > as to why in this particular shloka

> > Karka means Cancer.

> >

> > There is another word " Karkata "

> > with similiar meanings but add

> > one more meaning to it

> > 1) A compass, circuit.

> >

> > Okay You got the meanings. Now what great discovery

> > are you upto or some light dawning on us with some

> > super revelation by Your Smart self ?

> >

> > panaphera, apoklima and kendra are Sanskrit or not ?

> > What difference does it make ?

> > A rose would remain a Rose by

> > whatever name You call it.

> > What are you trying to arrive at here ?

> >

> > Next time please come

> > with useful posts on astrology,

> > which actually help the Science and the practising

> > astrologers, and do not open up confusions or

> > controversies.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this

topic

> in

> > a more informative and intelligent way.

> > > First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit

> translation

> > of Valmikis includes a reference to Karke?

> > > Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

> > > Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

> > > Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the

> > following are actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and kendra?

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > -

> > > Raja Gursahani

> > >

> > > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> > >

> > >

> > > yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that

a

> > group of

> > > astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound

conclusions

> > then one

> > > person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would

like

> > please read

> > > the following book which how I have come to this conclusion

(

> the

> > wisdom of

> > > crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer

and

> > rebuttal to

> > > Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus

> even

> > the

> > > greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I

> > would like

> > > Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo

ascendant

> > doesn't give

> > > him the power to control others as he really seems to think

> that

> > the leo

> > > ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light

> > because if he

> > > could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not

> controlling

> > this

> > > situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to

> > bully us into

> > > submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this

forum

> in

> > such a

> > > manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this

> forum

> > has lost

> > > its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is

dictated

> > by a

> > > totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer

and

> > individual

> > > he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

> > discussion, but

> > > instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he

> has

> > been given

> > > the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he

continues

> > to act like

> > > this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the

> > group will

> > > convene in naturally and discipline him.

> > >

> > > sincerely,

> > >

> > > ________

> > >

> > > Raja G. Gursahani

> > > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Marg

Can u explain how without the aid of telescope

ancient people used to see and calculate exact

position of planets

 

Dhananjay

 

 

, " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish

wrote:

>

> You are not talking astrology here, but

> trying to prove that Indians borrowed words

> from other civilisations.

> So what is there about it I cant understand.

> Mixture of cultures is nothing new, and so

> is language, but this certainly does

> not imply that the knowledge of asterisms

> was taken from some outer influence.

> Period.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

>

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@>

> wrote:

> >

> > What a intelligent way to explore topics in a

> > more informative and intelligent way.

> >

> > What a intelligent thread and topic to open, the

> > outcome of which would increase

> > our astrological level to a super level (???)

> >

> > First your friend raja opens a stupid thread and then backs

> > out saying that he had written it hurriedly.

> > In the meanwhile you express your love, by supporting him

> > and declaring that the Chinese already knew about the 28

> > asterisms thousands of years ago, and they have been

> > using it since them. On asking you to support this

> > declaration with some authentic proof, and your inability

> > to produce the same, you jump on some other silly topic ,

> > so that we forget your past stupid declarations.

> >

> > You are asking us why Valmiki gives reference to Karka ?

> > You never paused to think that we could also ask you why

> > Moses was named as he was in the Bible, and why

> > The Last Supper was named so, or why the

> > Holy Spirit is mentioned so, or why Virgin Mary

> > was mentioned so, when Lord Jesus Christ was.......

> >

> > Now listen Margaret, dont stir up a hornets nest by

> > talking rubbish here.

> > Do not try any conversions here or try to confuse

> > the devout religious astrologers over here. Take your

> > baggage somewhere else with this filth.and

> > You are quite obvious in You anti Hindu stance.

> >

> > Tomorrow you would ask us why the Greeks use

> > " Padre " word for Father or " Madre " for mother.

> > By reading few books do not try to appear as

> > knowledgable where there is none and only thrash

> > exists.

> >

> > Anyway what are you trying to prove by these

> > senseless queries ? Your little knowledge of

> > Sanskrit which is non-existent ?

> > You should have done some homework

> > before putting this post here instead of looking

> > utterly stupid.

> >

> > Now for your benefit, after which I expect you

> > to whamoosh with your dirty baggage ,please.

> >

> > Sanskrit Meanings for " Karka "

> > 1) Crab

> > 2) Cancer ,the 4th sign of the Zodiac.

> > 3) Fire.

> > 4) A water jar.

> > 5) A mirror.

> > 6) A white horse.

> >

> > Now dont ask us another silly question

> > as to why in this particular shloka

> > Karka means Cancer.

> >

> > There is another word " Karkata "

> > with similiar meanings but add

> > one more meaning to it

> > 1) A compass, circuit.

> >

> > Okay You got the meanings. Now what great discovery

> > are you upto or some light dawning on us with some

> > super revelation by Your Smart self ?

> >

> > panaphera, apoklima and kendra are Sanskrit or not ?

> > What difference does it make ?

> > A rose would remain a Rose by

> > whatever name You call it.

> > What are you trying to arrive at here ?

> >

> > Next time please come

> > with useful posts on astrology,

> > which actually help the Science and the practising

> > astrologers, and do not open up confusions or

> > controversies.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Glad to hear from all those who also want to explore this

topic

> in

> > a more informative and intelligent way.

> > > First of all I'd be interested to know why the sanskrit

> translation

> > of Valmikis includes a reference to Karke?

> > > Isn't Kulira the sanskrit term for Cancer?

> > > Isn't Karkinos the Greek term for Cancer?

> > > Also can anyone with knowledge of sanskrit confirm that the

> > following are actually sanskrit:- panaphera, apoklima and kendra?

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > >

> > > -

> > > Raja Gursahani

> > >

> > > Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:47 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> > >

> > >

> > > yes marg, the reason for the inquiry is this, I believe that

a

> > group of

> > > astrologers has a better chance at coming to sound

conclusions

> > then one

> > > person diving into the truth by themselves. if you would like

> > please read

> > > the following book which how I have come to this conclusion (

> the

> > wisdom of

> > > crowds by jame surowiecki) . I am in support of your answer

and

> > rebuttal to

> > > Bhaskar. it appears that the truth is always needed and thus

> even

> > the

> > > greatest astrologer is always learning in his dear course. I

> > would like

> > > Bhaskar to understand that just because he is a leo ascendant

> > doesn't give

> > > him the power to control others as he really seems to think

> that

> > the leo

> > > ascendant can control others. I guess he can't see the light

> > because if he

> > > could, he would realize that the leo ascendant is not

> controlling

> > this

> > > situation. instead this ascendant manifestation is trying to

> > bully us into

> > > submission. so please marg feel free to comment on this forum

> in

> > such a

> > > manner so that it brings life to others who feel that this

> forum

> > has lost

> > > its egalitarianism as well as democracy and instead is

dictated

> > by a

> > > totalitarian figure. actually if he was a normal astrologer

and

> > individual

> > > he would just ignore the discussion and carry on his own

> > discussion, but

> > > instead he leaves emails for everyone in this group as if he

> has

> > been given

> > > the right to participate in such a vile manner. If he

continues

> > to act like

> > > this child who has not been disciplined then well surely the

> > group will

> > > convene in naturally and discipline him.

> > >

> > > sincerely,

> > >

> > > ________

> > >

> > > Raja G. Gursahani

> > > *: 314.761.3134 (Clovis, CA)

> > > *: rajagursahani(atgmail.com)

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

With all ur collected knowledge, u r so much in dark, u dont know.

I have got at least dozens of times maa sharada's vision like i see

any human being and what vak shuddhi and siddhi u are saying, i have

all that.

 

what u have studied, i live that in my daily life, if it's not

there, i w'd not have dared speaking to you like this, it's not u

but ur amma only can understand me.

 

remember, what i said, " you will see, proven, flawlesss practical

spirituality " .

 

right, dont be a double standard person and dont get intoxicated in

some of the books that u have studied.

 

~Lalit.

 

 

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Ms.Margaret

>

> Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence i

> need time.

>

> But i can give views.

> In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word and

> vachana can mean divine word as well.

>

> I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

>

> But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the very

> root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

>

> Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

mouth

> has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can be

> loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse

is

> also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of Knowledge.One

> being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> Vacha-Vachaspati.

> Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

for

> Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

> different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

Vacha

> with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> conclusion.

>

> They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i need

> to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the answer

> is sufficient:-).

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Pradeep.

> > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was Vak,

> are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > -

> > vijayadas_pradeep

> >

> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> >

> >

> > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> >

> > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> Jupiter.

> > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> Guru,Vachas

> > pati etc are for Guru).

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> another view.

> > >

> > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> intended to

> > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

> it not

> > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> vicinity

> > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus

in

> the

> > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice,

not

> > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> understand

> > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator

of

> Vak,

> > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> evidence

> > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been

fully

> > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

> vedas

> > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

> used in

> > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> rather than

> > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

merits

> of

> > the source you quoted.

> > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

> just

> > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

the

> time

> > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> considered

> > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> were a

> > later development.

> > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> modern

> > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> saying

> > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

could

> not

> > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

> and no

> > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to

be

> an

> > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the

source

> of

> > your quote is?

> > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

more

> than

> > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> Rajagopalachari

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > kishore patnaik

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Marg,

> > >

> > > Good to read your mail.

> > >

> > > Bad things first:

> > >

> > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami

day.

> > This is so

> > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> more ,whereas

> > Mercury

> > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > degrees- thus

> > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of

a

> sign

> > but here

> > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

got

> to be

> > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> venus.

> > >

> > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> falls.It

> > starts at

> > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till

8.5

> > muhurtha. As

> > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

> every

> > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun

in

> > pisces and

> > > lagna falling in cancer

> > >

> > > Now, the good things:

> > >

> > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> cosmological

> > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

> find

> > a spark

> > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

> birth,

> > though

> > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent

to

> > Heavens

> > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

Rama's

> times.

> > > Please fill me up.

> > >

> > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > > 98492 70729

> > >

> > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

interpretation

> > in, and

> > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

Mercury?

> > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules

Taurus,

> so

> > Venus as

> > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which

is

> > ruled by

> > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> Lord of

> > Vak would

> > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

> abhijit

> > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun

with

> the

> > moon's

> > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > attention to an

> > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect

the

> > expected usual

> > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

Ramayana,

> a

> > brilliant

> > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> > during the

> > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by

Trisanku,

> > king of the

> > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is

an

> > allegory of

> > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

you

> think?

> > > >

> > > > best wishes

> > > > Margaret

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > >

> > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

> days.

> > I am

> > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > the birth :

> > > >

> > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-

10

> > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam ||

1-

> 18-11

> > > >

> > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> completion;

> > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

then;

> > dvaadashe

> > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

chaitra

> month

> > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

> the day

> > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

> swa uccha

> > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> positing;

> > karkaTe

> > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> > Speech's, Lord

> > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > raising �

> > > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

> Queen

> > Kausalya;

> > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> namaskR^itam=

> > by all,

> > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine,

attributes,

> > along with;

> > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

> mahaa

> > bhaagam=

> > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> > delight of;

> > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

armed;

> > rakta oSTam=

> > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

> Rama

> > as; putram=

> > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > >

> > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > >

> > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > >

> > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > >

> > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> > vakpati. Is it

> > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

> could

> > not be

> > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > >

> > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own)

or

> > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

planets

> > which are in

> > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > >

> > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> Saturn.

> > While the

> > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> > planets places

> > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > >

> > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> cancer on a

> > > > navami

> > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

> 108

> > degrees.

> > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

> the

> > place of

> > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

aries.

> > > >

> > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

after

> > hearing from

> > > > all of you.

> > > >

> > > > with best regards,

> > > >

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Sorry (This mail is addressed to Viajaya Dasha Pradeep)

 

 

> With all ur collected knowledge, u r so much in dark, u dont know.

> I have got at least dozens of times maa sharada's vision like i

see

> any human being and what vak shuddhi and siddhi u are saying, i

have

> all that.

>

> what u have studied, i live that in my daily life, if it's not

> there, i w'd not have dared speaking to you like this, it's not u

> but ur amma only can understand me.

>

> remember, what i said, " you will see, proven, flawlesss practical

> spirituality " .

>

> right, dont be a double standard person and dont get intoxicated

in

> some of the books that u have studied.

>

> ~Lalit.

>

>

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ms.Margaret

> >

> > Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

> > The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence

i

> > need time.

> >

> > But i can give views.

> > In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

> > synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word

and

> > vachana can mean divine word as well.

> >

> > I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

> > Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

> >

> > But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the

very

> > root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

> > get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

> >

> > Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads

> mouth

> > has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can

be

> > loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse

> is

> > also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

> > Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of

Knowledge.One

> > being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

> > Vacha-Vachaspati.

> > Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

> > Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered

> for

> > Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

> > different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

> > Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate

> Vacha

> > with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

> > conclusion.

> >

> > They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i

need

> > to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the

answer

> > is sufficient:-).

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thanks Pradeep.

> > > I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was

Vak,

> > are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> > > -

> > > vijayadas_pradeep

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

> > >

> > > Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

> > Jupiter.

> > > Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

> > Guru,Vachas

> > > pati etc are for Guru).

> > >

> > > Hope this helps.

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hi

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

> > another view.

> > > >

> > > > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

> > intended to

> > > convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon.

Could

> > it not

> > > also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

> > vicinity

> > > as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus

> in

> > the

> > > vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is

voice,

> not

> > > speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

> > understand

> > > the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator

> of

> > Vak,

> > > sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

> > evidence

> > > for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > > > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been

> fully

> > > defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that

the

> > vedas

> > > had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras

as

> > used in

> > > jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

> > rather than

> > > being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> > > constellational influences? This is why I asked about the

> merits

> > of

> > > the source you quoted.

> > > > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is

it

> > just

> > > telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at

> the

> > time

> > > Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

> > considered

> > > important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

> > were a

> > > later development.

> > > > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

> > modern

> > > practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

> > saying

> > > there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > > > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This

> could

> > not

> > > be done easily as the Vedas are considered to

be 'Apourusheya'

> > and no

> > > liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to

> be

> > an

> > > imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > > > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the

> source

> > of

> > > your quote is?

> > > > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out

> more

> > than

> > > I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

> > Rajagopalachari

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > kishore patnaik

> > > >

> > > > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > > > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Marg,

> > > >

> > > > Good to read your mail.

> > > >

> > > > Bad things first:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami

> day.

> > > This is so

> > > > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

> > more ,whereas

> > > Mercury

> > > > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> > > degrees- thus

> > > > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees

of

> a

> > sign

> > > but here

> > > > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has

> got

> > to be

> > > > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

> > venus.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

> > falls.It

> > > starts at

> > > > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on

till

> 8.5

> > > muhurtha. As

> > > > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there

is

> > every

> > > > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with

sun

> in

> > > pisces and

> > > > lagna falling in cancer

> > > >

> > > > Now, the good things:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

> > cosmological

> > > > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if

I

> > find

> > > a spark

> > > > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and

rama's

> > birth,

> > > though

> > > > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be

sent

> to

> > > Heavens

> > > > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during

> Rama's

> > times.

> > > > Please fill me up.

> > > >

> > > > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> > > >

> > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > 98492 70729

> > > >

> > > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kishore

> > > > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the

> interpretation

> > > in, and

> > > > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or

> Mercury?

> > > > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules

> Taurus,

> > so

> > > Venus as

> > > > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair,

which

> is

> > > ruled by

> > > > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

> > Lord of

> > > Vak would

> > > > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure.

Isn't

> > abhijit

> > > > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun

> with

> > the

> > > moon's

> > > > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> > > attention to an

> > > > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might

affect

> the

> > > expected usual

> > > > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of

> Ramayana,

> > a

> > > brilliant

> > > > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born

is

> > > during the

> > > > > creation of constellations in the southern path by

> Trisanku,

> > > king of the

> > > > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers

is

> an

> > > allegory of

> > > > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't

> you

> > think?

> > > > >

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > Margaret

> > > > >

> > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past

few

> > days.

> > > I am

> > > > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > > > the birth :

> > > > >

> > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-

18-8

> > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-

9

> > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-

18-

> 10

> > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam

||

> 1-

> > 18-11

> > > > >

> > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

> > completion;

> > > > > R^ituuNaam

> > > > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH=

> then;

> > > dvaadashe

> > > > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau=

> chaitra

> > month

> > > > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star

of

> > the day

> > > > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu

graheSu

> > swa uccha

> > > > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

> > positing;

> > > karkaTe

> > > > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha=

when

> > > Speech's, Lord

> > > > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> > > raising �

> > > > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

> > Queen

> > > Kausalya;

> > > > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

> > namaskR^itam=

> > > by all,

> > > > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine,

> attributes,

> > > along with;

> > > > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of

Vishnu];

> > mahaa

> > > bhaagam=

> > > > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku

dynasty,

> > > delight of;

> > > > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy,

> armed;

> > > rakta oSTam=

> > > > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced;

raamam=

> > Rama

> > > as; putram=

> > > > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > > > >

> > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of

Navami

> > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > > > >

> > > > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to

be

> > > vakpati. Is it

> > > > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since

Mercury

> > could

> > > not be

> > > > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa

(own)

> or

> > > > > uccha(exalted)

> > > > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five

> planets

> > > which are in

> > > > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

> > Saturn.

> > > While the

> > > > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other

three

> > > planets places

> > > > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

> > cancer on a

> > > > > navami

> > > > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more

than

> > 108

> > > degrees.

> > > > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces.

Thus,

> > the

> > > place of

> > > > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or

> aries.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions

> after

> > > hearing from

> > > > > all of you.

> > > > >

> > > > > with best regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > kishore patnaik

> > > > > 98492 70729

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Pradeep,

 

Thanks ever so much for this thoughtful reply, it was very kind of you

to take the time to write all that.

I'm sure as you say that there is a lot more to it, there usually is:-)

I did think there might be a subtle difference between Vak and Vaka,

but even in Valmiki's day this may have become a little clouded.

best wishes

Margaret

 

-

vijayadas_pradeep

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:30 PM

Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

 

 

Dear Ms.Margaret

 

Sorry for the delay due to other priorities.

The question is not simple.The answer can go very deep and hence i

need time.

 

But i can give views.

In my daily parlance(Mothertongue) - Vacha and Vak are used as

synonymns.(Vachanam and Vak).They in literal sense means word and

vachana can mean divine word as well.

 

I tried to check classics(Varahamihira Hora) and translation of

Vacha was given as Vak.Thus they can mean the same.

 

But Vak can have higher meanings as it can also point to the very

root or origin source of knowledge.Astrologers do pray to

get ''Vak'' as a boon before starting any work.

 

Brihaspati has Karakatwa over 2nd house and as per Upanishads mouth

has some principle which cannot be destroyed by demons.This can be

loosely termed as Fire principle.The mouth of Vaiswanara - Horse is

also linked to Fire.Thus Vak is not a mere word when we go deep.

Thus Mercury and Jupiter can point to two aspects of Knowledge.One

being the Vak itself and the other being the Pati or lord.

Vacha-Vachaspati.

Vag-Devatha Saraswati rides a Swan(Hamsa).Hamsa has links with

Jupiter.Similarly Mercury's placement in 2nd is also considered for

Saraswati Yoga.Thus both are related to Vag or Vacha,but through

different tattwas.Now sages have placed Mercury under Vacha and

Jupiter under Vachaspati.Translations (ancient one) do equate Vacha

with Vak.Thus Vachaspati can be Vakapati is my understanding or

conclusion.

 

They have a common root is the essence.I have to admit that i need

to study more and your question is not that simple.Hope the answer

is sufficient:-).

 

Regds

Pradeep

 

, " Marg " <margie9 wrote:

>

> Thanks Pradeep.

> I understand Vacha is synonym for Mercury, but the word was Vak,

are the two the same? Vak means Vacha?

> -

> vijayadas_pradeep

>

> Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:25 PM

> Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama/Vachaspati

>

>

> Dear Ms Margaret and Mr.Patnaik

>

> Vacha is a synonymn for Mercury while Vachaspati points to

Jupiter.

> Thus Vak is Mercury and Vakpati is Brihaspati.Angiras,Sura

Guru,Vachas

> pati etc are for Guru).

>

> Hope this helps.

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add

another view.

> >

> > The translation you give seems to imply that it is not

intended to

> convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could

it not

> also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's

vicinity

> as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in

the

> vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not

> speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't

understand

> the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of

Vak,

> sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any

evidence

> for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics.

> > Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully

> defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the

vedas

> had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as

used in

> jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone,

rather than

> being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to

> constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits

of

> the source you quoted.

> > Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it

just

> telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the

time

> Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was

considered

> important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras

were a

> later development.

> > Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a

modern

> practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is

saying

> there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27:

> > ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could

not

> be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya'

and no

> liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be

an

> imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala''

> > This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source

of

> your quote is?

> > I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more

than

> I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by

Rajagopalachari

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -

> > kishore patnaik

> >

> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM

> > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama

> >

> >

> > Dear Marg,

> >

> > Good to read your mail.

> >

> > Bad things first:

> >

> > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day.

> This is so

> > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or

more ,whereas

> Mercury

> > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72

> degrees- thus

> > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a

sign

> but here

> > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got

to be

> > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not

venus.

> >

> > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon

falls.It

> starts at

> > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5

> muhurtha. As

> > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is

every

> > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in

> pisces and

> > lagna falling in cancer

> >

> > Now, the good things:

> >

> > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the

cosmological

> > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I

find

> a spark

> > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's

birth,

> though

> > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to

> Heavens

> > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's

times.

> > Please fill me up.

> >

> > Thnks for the mail once again,.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> > 98492 70729

> >

> > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Kishore

> > > Please would you identify the source of your information?

> > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation

> in, and

> > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury?

> > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus,

so

> Venus as

> > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon.

> > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is

> ruled by

> > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus

Lord of

> Vak would

> > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely?

> > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't

abhijit

> > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with

the

> moon's

> > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing

> attention to an

> > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the

> expected usual

> > > distance between sun and moon on navami?

> > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana,

a

> brilliant

> > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is

> during the

> > > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku,

> king of the

> > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an

> allegory of

> > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you

think?

> > >

> > > best wishes

> > > Margaret

> > >

> > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM

> > > Horoscope of Lord Rama

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few

days.

> I am

> > > giving below the slokas connected with

> > > the birth :

> > >

> > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |

> > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8

> > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |

> > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9

> > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |

> > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10

> > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |

> > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-

18-11

> > >

> > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on

completion;

> > > R^ituuNaam

> > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then;

> dvaadashe

> > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra

month

> > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of

the day

> > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu

swa uccha

> > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest,

positing;

> karkaTe

> > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when

> Speech's, Lord

> > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when

> raising �

> > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa=

Queen

> Kausalya;

> > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka

namaskR^itam=

> by all,

> > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes,

> along with;

> > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu];

mahaa

> bhaagam=

> > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty,

> delight of;

> > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed;

> rakta oSTam=

> > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam=

Rama

> as; putram=

> > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth.

> > >

> > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:

> > >

> > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami

> > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra

> > > 3. The lagna is Cancer

> > > 4. Moon is in lagna

> > >

> > > The following two points are to be discussed.

> > >

> > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be

> vakpati. Is it

> > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury

could

> not be

> > > with Moon on a Navami day.

> > >

> > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or

> > > uccha(exalted)

> > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets

> which are in

> > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain

> > >

> > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and

Saturn.

> While the

> > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three

> planets places

> > > can be fixed only by discussion

> > >

> > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in

cancer on a

> > > navami

> > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than

108

> degrees.

> > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus,

the

> place of

> > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries.

> > >

> > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after

> hearing from

> > > all of you.

> > >

> > > with best regards,

> > >

> > > kishore patnaik

> > > 98492 70729

> > >

> > >