A puzzling case of twins!

April 29, 2009

Dear Krishna ji,

I am separating Timing of Event from Quality. I shall share my understanding.

As far as timing of event goes, Moon conjoining Ketu IN NAVAMSA, would make them

samdharmi and if for some reason Moon was not able to give the result then Ketu

can step in for Moon to furnish the result. That is the " use " as far as timing

of event goes.

Next, is quality. Moon is a very sensitive planet and that gets affected by

Rahu / Ketu as you know. The nodes distub the moon. " Chandmara " is also called

for a " mentally challenged " person and again here Chand or moon is used.

Now, say if a person is very brilliant then for such a person moon with rahu

might make them more obsessive but with a purpose. So certain geniuses you

might find them more escentric as well.

Now, if there is no intellgence and there are other factors that point to severe

condition then it might lead to a more severe problems. A person can have

persistent thoughts in mind etc. So if you reach that condition, then maybe

that might become a factor where moon is very spoilt i.e. the karak for 9th

house and 9th house is the mool karak sthan for marriage.

So here I am talking about quality of the moon.

As far as my analysis goes, I did factor that in, but related it with the nature

of the person ie. both the twins. I also factored that into the the

intelligence and the points that i wrote about their nature difference as well.

I also spoke about wavering mind though there i took more factors into

consideration for one twin.

In any case, that was my attempt, right or wrong I do not know, but with slight

nadi's changes the nature of the person can potentially become very different.

Also taking Moon as lagna, 1st and 9th from Moon and also taking sun as lagna,

lagna and 9th are in 5:9 or nav pancham.

For the second twin, Moon is in 4th house in navamsa and in Rasi his bindus are

more than 4 so that will make it eager to give 7th house so also ketu for that

matter in their antras. This is Assuming that Lagna is Vargottam i.e the house

repeat in rasi and navamsa so it has a special status.

One more thing, before i end this mail. Mo with ketu for the 2nd twin assuming

if its vargottam lagna, then that combination will make him think more about

security and 4th house matters which can also be enjoyment at physical level so

home, cars etc. 4th house is moksh trikon at physical level.

I hope that clarifies the way I have approached it.

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58

wrote:

>

> Dear Ash ji,

>

> I was looking at your analysis. You have indicated that Moon AD could be the

> probable period. However, I notice that Moon is conjunct Ketu in Navamsha.

> According to my understanding Ketu prevents marriage during Moon's AD. Do

> you consider this Ketu factor or not?

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

> kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> > Dear Ash ji,

> >

> > That is very kind of you to provide detailed calculations and analysis

> > based on my assumption. In fact, it was not a blind assumption! That is an

> > outcome of applying my BTR technique. I got the time as 23:13:56 for the

> > first and 23:20:23 for the second.

> >

> > Regarding the possibility of the recording errors, I guess that the doctor

> > may not have had the presence of mind to note down the time of birth for the

> > first baby as he/she had the job of clearing the second one. He/she might

> > have noted down the time for the second and might have deducted a couple of

> > minutes for the first. I know this is only speculation, but seems to have

> > high probability. One thing is for sure that the birth has taken place in

> > the hospital and not at home. In our community, I have not heard anyone

> > going for home delivery since ages. Knowing this family, I can vouch this

> > for sure. But, sure I will find out the truth from the father.

> >

> > In my own perspective, if one goes by navamsha chart, for Leo lagna, 7L

> > Saturn is in the 6H, but Jupiter is blessing the lagna and Venus in the 9th

> > supporting dharma. For Virgo navamsha lagna, 7L Jupiter is in the 12th from

> > lagna and Venus is also in a dusthana, indicating additional delays for the

> > second one.

> >

> > I have to go out for some urgent work now. I will come back and write

> > more...

> >

> > Regards,

> > Krishna

> >

> > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Ash's Corner <kaswrote:

> >

> >>

> >> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>

> >> Here is my attempt with Leo lagna. It does make sense.

> >>

> >> Calculation is as follows.

> >>

> >> For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its moderated by

> >> Guru. Whereas for Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam,

> >> there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru

> >> is causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin. For both

> >> case there is 1 zero in SAV due to Sa in 7h house.

> >>

> >> Calculation for delay for elder twin.

> >>

> >> Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord and 2nd lord in navamsa. This

> >> causes full delay. Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is

> >> moderating the delay. Guru is eager to give marriage being lord of

4thhouse being placed in 12

> >> th house (lord of upchay from 7th being placed in second upchay house

> >> from 7th). Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd lord but here it won't cause

> >> delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is Leo.

> >>

> >> Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is about 27 years,

> >> its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore delay is

about

> >> 24 years. So marriage can happen after that. Mercury antra run so sun's

> >> transit in sign/nak of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan

> >> 2004 or there abouts.

> >>

> >> Calculation for delay of younger twin.

> >>

> >> Here in this case, lagna is vargottam. Delay caused by Saturn remains

> >> same as Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and Venus

> >> who is 2nd lord in navamsa. So there is delay due to Saturn. This is

> >> again moderated by Guru who aspects Sa. However with lagna becoming

> >> vargottam, the house repeat in rasi and navamsa so here its special. Guru

> >> is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects Venus in both Rasi

> >> and Navamsa who is 2nd lord. This might cause Guru to give delay as

> >> well. Again there is 1 zero in Rasi due to Saturn in 7th house.

> >>

> >> So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows.

> >>

> >> Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder twin. So that is

> >> about 24 years as Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru. Now Guru

> >> is causing delay and both FK and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is

> >> also Moolkarak. So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3 aspects in

> >> transit to 7th lord or 7th house. So at the age of 24, Guru will be over

> >> natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when it

> >> enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th house will happen when Ju

> >> comes to Sco and then 3rd aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4thhouse

and from there it will aspect 7

> >> th lord Guru placed in 12th house. So delay will go upto 28 years or

> >> there abouts.

> >>

> >> So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very end. So we

> >> can skip the antra also Venus is in 6th house. After that now he is

> >> running the antra of Sun. Sun is powerful but its antra is running till

> >>

> >> *Sun*

> >>

> >> 2008-Aug-03

> >>

> >> 2009-May-22

> >>

> >> Sun's antra is powerful but Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so

> >> Karakansha is in 6th house so thereby its affected. Moon antra is next

> >> and Moon is powerful to give result of marriage.

> >>

> >> *Moon*

> >>

> >> 2009-May-22

> >>

> >> 2010-Sep-21

> >>

> >> So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the delays are

> >> fitting. The above procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts.

> >>

> >> Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is intelligent,

> >> can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy life.

> >> He will not oppose anyone on the face, and does not have fixed thoughts.

> >> His mind is also more wavering.

> >>

> >> Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a

> >> leadership quality as compared to the younger twin, and is more daring

> >> nature and can take more risk.

> >>

> >> The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more convincingly

> >> whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive. The older

> >> one is more firm in thoughts as compared to the younger one. The older

> >> one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more

> >> easily as compared to the younger one.

> >>

> >> Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji. If you can confirm these points

> >> above, it will be good learning for me.

> >>

> >> *Cheers !!!*

> >>

> >> *Ash -> **http://www.ashtro.ca*

> >>

> >> ** jyotish-vidya [

> >> jyotish-vidya ] *On Behalf Of *ashsam73

> >> *Sent:* Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58 PM

> >> *To:* jyotish-vidya

> >> *Subject:* Re: A puzzling case of twins!

> >>

> >> Dear Krishna ji,

> >>

> >> I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would

> >> indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

> >>

> >> Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo

> >> navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences

between

> >> the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance

> >> this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have

> >> said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house

> >> definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra

lagna

> >> Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

> >>

> >> With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing

> >> vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me

> >> (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that

you

> >> did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can

> >> find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling

> >> accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or

> >> something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in

> >> profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination

> >> towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one

> >> might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good

> >> student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or

> >> something else.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Cheers !!!

> >> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >>

> >> jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>,

> >> Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > Dear Ash ji,

> >> >

> >> > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to

> >> their

> >> > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> >> > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> >> > have to explore this further.

> >> >

> >> > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> >> > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> >> > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

> >> matter.

> >> >

> >> > Regards,

> >> > Krishna

> >> >

> >> > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> > > Dear Krishna ji,

> >> > >

> >> > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

> >> that

> >> > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

> >> it when

> >> > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> >> > >

> >> > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time

> >> i.e.

> >> > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

> >> hospital

> >> > > if they were born in a hospital?

> >> > >

> >> > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> >> 23:26

> >> > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That

> >> would

> >> > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> >> > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth

> >> of

> >> > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like

> >> that or

> >> > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe

> >> if you

> >> > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is

> >> there a

> >> > > possibility of such things happening?

> >> > >

> >> > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food,

> >> their

> >> > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working

> >> and

> >> > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

> >> difference

> >> > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be

> >> helpful

> >> > > for studying the same.

> >> > >

> >> > > Thanking you,

> >> > > Cheers !!!

> >> > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >> > >

> >> > > --- In

jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40><jyotish-vidya%

> >> 40>,

> >> > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Dear All,

> >> > > >

> >> > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two

> >> > > minutes

> >> > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is

> >> > > married

> >> > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

> >> > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage

> >> together (or

> >> > > a

> >> > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to

> >> give-in to

> >> > > the

> >> > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the

> >> elder son

> >> > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking

> >> that

> >> > > they

> >> > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly.

> >> > > Somehow,

> >> > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys

> >> are

> >> > > into

> >> > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both

> >> boys

> >> > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a

> >> wedding and

> >> > > I

> >> > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

> >> > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their

> >> chart.

> >> > > >

> >> > > > The birth details are:

> >> > > >

> >> > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> >> > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> >> > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> >> > > >

> >> > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage

> >> is

> >> > > > concerned?

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Regards,

> >> > > > Krishna

> >> > > >

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

April 29, 2009

Dear Wendy,

Ok, so neither twin is married. Then in that case, the charts of both the

couple should also be seen. In any case, I will hold my thoughts and channel

them for now to solve the chart that Krishna ji has given and then I can focus

on your grand childrens chart and study it with due deligence and concentration.

If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a relationship

and the start date of those and also if possible their charts. I don't know if

its possible but if we can get that then we can do a more through analysis.

However as far as individual charts go, both your grandchildren are not married

and as far as birth of children are concerned its better to study the chart of

the couple or both couples.

If I have missed any points in your email, i shall re-read your email reply in

the evening.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> ///When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and

> what

> factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for

> the

> younger twin?///

>

> Neither twin is married...this is considered normal and quite acceptable

> in this hedonistic 21st century, I'm afraid :-(

>

> ///The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems

> from your

> post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am

> mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who

> are

> twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have

> used dasha and transits to calculate the delay.///

>

> Yes, you are mistaken Ash...

> Dasas/transits (as per Parashara) are used for the timing and fructifying

> of events.

>

> ///If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren

> after

> this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts.///

>

> By all means, I've actually (just now) included the birth data under

> their photo http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm for the benefit of those

> who want to take a look.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

> -

> " Ash's Corner " <kas

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:03 PM

> RE: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

>

> Dear Wendy,

>

> When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and

> what

> factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for

> the

> younger twin?

>

> What is the difference that has caused the delay between these twins?

> Please share your opinion as well on how you solve or approach the chart

> and

> what factors you use and the calculation for calculating delay w.r.t

> marriage in this case.

>

> The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems from

> your

> post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am

> mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who

> are

> twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have

> used dasha and transits to calculate the delay.

>

> If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after

> this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts.

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> ====================================

>

> jyotish-vidya

> [jyotish-vidya ]

> On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

> Tuesday April 28, 2009 11:41 PM

> jyotish-vidya

> Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> //1) Time is perfect and as given.//

>

> Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise.

>

> //2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

> might be different.//

>

> I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from

> the womb (capable of individual life).

>

> //3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin//

>

> Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this.

>

> //4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that

> opens up three possibility

> a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

> b) both twins are virgo

> c) both twins are libra//

>

> Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.

>

> I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only

> twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several

> years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was

> based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the

> best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't

> remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in

> more general terms.

>

> As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother

> (elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not

> only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was

> born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

April 29, 2009

Dear Ash,

As per the mail from Krishna (below) confirming the birth time, I feel it

would be prudent to wait until otherwise advised before considering other

possibilities.

Krishna Wrote:

///I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the

date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.///

You Wrote:

///If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.///

Certainly my granddaughter was/is in a stable relationship with her Son's

father. More than this I cannot tell as they live in another state now

and I have no contact details. I've just spoken to my Son (father of the

twins) and find out that I made a slight error in Sarah's time...It

should be 11:09 AM and not 11:06 AM as I had thought...should have dug

out my old hand-written charts and not relied on memory. Everything else

is okay and I've made the necessary correction on the website.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:41 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Wendy,

Ok, so neither twin is married. Then in that case, the charts of both

the couple should also be seen. In any case, I will hold my thoughts and

channel them for now to solve the chart that Krishna ji has given and

then I can focus on your grand childrens chart and study it with due

deligence and concentration.

If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.

However as far as individual charts go, both your grandchildren are not

married and as far as birth of children are concerned its better to study

the chart of the couple or both couples.

If I have missed any points in your email, i shall re-read your email

reply in the evening.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

May 8, 2009

Dear All,A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me that he will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet me. I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 20022. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 20043. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more like him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't know this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times is exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

I will collect more details when I personally meet him.Regards,Krishna On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

Dear Ash,

As per the mail from Krishna (below) confirming the birth time, I feel it

would be prudent to wait until otherwise advised before considering other

possibilities.

Krishna Wrote:

///I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the

date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.///

You Wrote:

///If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.///

Certainly my granddaughter was/is in a stable relationship with her Son's

father. More than this I cannot tell as they live in another state now

and I have no contact details. I've just spoken to my Son (father of the

twins) and find out that I made a slight error in Sarah's time...It

should be 11:09 AM and not 11:06 AM as I had thought...should have dug

out my old hand-written charts and not relied on memory. Everything else

is okay and I've made the necessary correction on the website.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:41 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Wendy,

Ok, so neither twin is married. Then in that case, the charts of both

the couple should also be seen. In any case, I will hold my thoughts and

channel them for now to solve the chart that Krishna ji has given and

then I can focus on your grand childrens chart and study it with due

deligence and concentration.

If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.

However as far as individual charts go, both your grandchildren are not

married and as far as birth of children are concerned its better to study

the chart of the couple or both couples.

If I have missed any points in your email, i shall re-read your email

reply in the evening.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

May 10, 2009

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit Bangalore for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she was carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital and through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor exclaiming 'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was when they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could well be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event is very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that only close family members can see the difference and most others don't. Both of them were average students at school and used to score around the same level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a jewellary show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks at work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady mentioned that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and the second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate to speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with new ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger scale. The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no such hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. These attributes conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines to them.

My analysis is as follows:1. Elder TwinThough 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because Jup occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy got married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

2. Younger Twin7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There is a slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the same navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like Jup-Sun period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be out of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.Regards,KrishnaOn Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

Dear All,A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me that he will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet me. I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 20022. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 20043. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more like him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't know this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times is exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

I will collect more details when I personally meet him.Regards,Krishna On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

Dear Ash,

As per the mail from Krishna (below) confirming the birth time, I feel it

would be prudent to wait until otherwise advised before considering other

possibilities.

Krishna Wrote:

///I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the

date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.///

You Wrote:

///If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.///

Certainly my granddaughter was/is in a stable relationship with her Son's

father. More than this I cannot tell as they live in another state now

and I have no contact details. I've just spoken to my Son (father of the

twins) and find out that I made a slight error in Sarah's time...It

should be 11:09 AM and not 11:06 AM as I had thought...should have dug

out my old hand-written charts and not relied on memory. Everything else

is okay and I've made the necessary correction on the website.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:41 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Wendy,

Ok, so neither twin is married. Then in that case, the charts of both

the couple should also be seen. In any case, I will hold my thoughts and

channel them for now to solve the chart that Krishna ji has given and

then I can focus on your grand childrens chart and study it with due

deligence and concentration.

If possible can you find out if both your grand children were in a

relationship and the start date of those and also if possible their

charts. I don't know if its possible but if we can get that then we can

do a more through analysis.

However as far as individual charts go, both your grandchildren are not

married and as far as birth of children are concerned its better to study

the chart of the couple or both couples.

If I have missed any points in your email, i shall re-read your email

reply in the evening.

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

May 11, 2009

Dear Krishna,

Many thanks for that information. I'm going to need time to look at this

as I'm rather busy off-list at the moment.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

Bangalore

for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

was

carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

and

through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

exclaiming

'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

when

they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

well

be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

is

very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

Both

of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

jewellary

show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

at

work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

mentioned

that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

the

second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

to

speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

new

ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

scale.

The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

such

hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

to

them.

*

My analysis is as follows:

*1. Elder Twin*

Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

Jup

occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

got

married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

*2. Younger Twin*

7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

is a

slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

same

navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

Jup-Sun

period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

out

of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

kmurthys58 wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> that he

> will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> me.

> I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

>

> 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> like

> him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> know

> this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> is

> exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

>

> I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

May 11, 2009

Dear Mrs. Wendy,Please take your time. I look forward to your comments on this case.Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

Dear Krishna,

Many thanks for that information. I'm going to need time to look at this

as I'm rather busy off-list at the moment.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

Bangalore

for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

was

carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

and

through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

exclaiming

'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

when

they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

well

be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

is

very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

Both

of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

jewellary

show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

at

work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

mentioned

that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

the

second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

to

speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

new

ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

scale.

The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

such

hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

to

them.

*

My analysis is as follows:

*1. Elder Twin*

Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

Jup

occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

got

married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

*2. Younger Twin*

7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

is a

slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

same

navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

Jup-Sun

period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

out

of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

kmurthys58 wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> that he

> will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> me.

> I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

>

> 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> like

> him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> know

> this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> is

> exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

>

> I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

May 12, 2009

Dear Krishna,

First let me include here the response from you confirming the following

data for the twins.

DOB: Jan 28, 1980

POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

///I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same.///

I'm assuming here that the horoscopes would have been prepared by the

family astrologer when the twins were quite young and the parents memory

sharper than it would be now (29 yrs later)?? It seems quite feasible to

me that now, when suggested to them that the time difference could be

more than 2 mins, they might agree that this is possible. However a time

difference of 5-6 mins (as you say below) is an awful stretch, not only

from what is recorded on their original horoscope, but from the normal

procedure for delivering twins by C section. Taking 5-6 mins to deliver

the second child would, in my opinion, be extremely dangerous, if not

fatal, for both mother and child.

///I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times is

exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.///

If you don't have a squeamish stomach the following link has a video of a

caesarean twin birth.

http://www.raising-twins.com/cesarean-twin-birth.html As you can see it

all happens very quickly.

Conceding that there could be a small difference in the birth times, I've

added 30 sec to the younger twins time...making his time 23:20:30 and

leaving the elder twin at the original time of 23:18:00. I really can't

see any logical reason to increase it more than that.

Using these times we find that the elder twin was born under the

influence of MA-MO-RA-JU whilst the influence at birth for the younger

twin was MA-MO-RA-SA. Already we see a difference influencing these twins

from the moment of birth.

On 21 Jun 2002 (marriage) the elder twin was enjoying sookshmantar of

Venus in Mars pratyantar...Venus was transiting 11th house of gains,

auspicious events etc. The younger twin was influenced by sookshmantar of

Sun.

On 24 Jun 2004 (daughter) the elder twin was under influence of

sookshmantar Moon who was transiting lagna (aspecting 7th). The younger

twin influenced by sookshmantar of Rahu who was transiting 8th...

I'll leave this here for now Krishna as it's getting quite late.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

Bangalore

for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

was

carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

and

through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

exclaiming

'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

when

they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

well

be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

is

very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

Both

of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

jewellary

show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

at

work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

mentioned

that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

the

second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

to

speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

new

ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

scale.

The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

such

hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

to

them.

*

My analysis is as follows:

*1. Elder Twin*

Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

Jup

occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

got

married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

*2. Younger Twin*

7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

is a

slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

same

navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

Jup-Sun

period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

out

of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

kmurthys58 wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> that he

> will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> me.

> I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

>

> 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> like

> him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> know

> this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> is

> exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

>

> I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

May 12, 2009

Dear Krishna,

///Hence, my guess that the doctor might not have not recorded the time

of birth of the first baby could well be correct!///

As you saw on the video (if you watched it) the doctor pronounces that

the child is born, as soon as it's born. However he himself doesn't

physically record the time. This is the responsibility (duty) of a

trained nurse who must accurately record all information i.e. time of

birth, baby's weight, length etc, etc.. Having been a nurse and aware of

the strict training involved, I'm confident that these same procedures

are adhered to throughout all hospitals world-wide.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

Bangalore

for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

was

carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

and

through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

exclaiming

'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

when

they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

well

be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

is

very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

Both

of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

jewellary

show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

at

work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

mentioned

that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

the

second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

to

speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

new

ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

scale.

The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

such

hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

to

them.

*

My analysis is as follows:

*1. Elder Twin*

Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

Jup

occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

got

married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

*2. Younger Twin*

7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

is a

slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

same

navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

Jup-Sun

period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

out

of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

kmurthys58 wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> that he

> will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> me.

> I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

>

> 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> like

> him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> know

> this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> is

> exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

>

> I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

May 13, 2009

Dear Mrs. Wendy,The point you have raised about the time gap between the two births is perfectly valid for normal situations. I am talking about a situation where the doctor and the staff were not geared up for a twin birth and they only discovered it during the operation. I am only saying that under such special situations, the difference of 5-6 minutes could be possible. I could be wrong. In any case, I am planning to talk to one of my cousins who is pediatrician and a neo natal specialist and running a nursing home in Bangalore about such a possibility. He has also worked in UK and Australian hospitals for 10-12 years before settling down in Bangalore. Last year alone his nursing home delivered about 500+ babies. I would like to take his opinion is on this issue before concluding anything.

I have one observation on using SAD to make a call. Normally, to deliniate a chart, we look at MD-AD-PD and ignore SAD in most cases as we are not sure of the accuracy of birth time. However, when it comes to twins, the tendency is to totally depend on SAD and not give much importance to the other three. The level of accuracy of the birth times are no different in case of twin births. Hence, I wonder why we tend to work this way!

Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

Dear Krishna,

///Hence, my guess that the doctor might not have not recorded the time

of birth of the first baby could well be correct!///

As you saw on the video (if you watched it) the doctor pronounces that

the child is born, as soon as it's born. However he himself doesn't

physically record the time. This is the responsibility (duty) of a

trained nurse who must accurately record all information i.e. time of

birth, baby's weight, length etc, etc.. Having been a nurse and aware of

the strict training involved, I'm confident that these same procedures

are adhered to throughout all hospitals world-wide.

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

Bangalore

for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

was

carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

and

through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

exclaiming

'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

when

they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

well

be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

is

very high.

They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

Both

of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

jewellary

show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

at

work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

mentioned

that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

the

second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

to

speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

new

ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

scale.

The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

such

hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

to

them.

*

My analysis is as follows:

*1. Elder Twin*

Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

Jup

occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

got

married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

*2. Younger Twin*

7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

is a

slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

same

navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

Jup-Sun

period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

out

of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

I request learned members to share their opinion.

Regards,

Krishna

On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

kmurthys58 wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> that he

> will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> me.

> I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

>

> 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> like

> him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> know

> this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> is

> exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

>

> I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

May 13, 2009

Dear Krishna ji,

I am pressed for time, however I wanted to share something quickly.

Another scenario also arises in which is can be ASSUMED that

1) The children were born 2 mins apart or 3 minutes apart

AND

2) The offset or the noting down of time of the first twin was off by 5 or 6

minutes.

So if you were to change the offset of the time of birth of the first twin by

5/6 mins and keep the difference between the 2 children to be 2 mins (i.e.

accouding to both of your definition of child birth), what Krishna ji is saying

can still be possible.

So we have 2 factors at play here.

So if the first twin came out 5 to 6 mins earlier then one might have navamsa

lagna to be libra and the other to be virgo.

Or in the other scenario, one can have virgo lagna and the other libra. This

scenario has not been studied in detail either.

That said, both of you have not given the reason for delay or the calculation?

Can anyone give that and what factors does one attribute to the nature

difference?

Why in one case the marriage is delayed by so much as compared to the other one

who was married earlier? What is the calculation of that and the reason behind

it?

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58

wrote:

>

> Dear Mrs. Wendy,

>

> The point you have raised about the time gap between the two births is

> perfectly valid for normal situations. I am talking about a situation where

> the doctor and the staff were not geared up for a twin birth and they only

> discovered it during the operation. I am only saying that under such special

> situations, the difference of 5-6 minutes could be possible. I could be

> wrong. In any case, I am planning to talk to one of my cousins who is

> pediatrician and a neo natal specialist and running a nursing home in

> Bangalore about such a possibility. He has also worked in UK and Australian

> hospitals for 10-12 years before settling down in Bangalore. Last year alone

> his nursing home delivered about 500+ babies. I would like to take his

> opinion is on this issue before concluding anything.

>

> I have one observation on using SAD to make a call. Normally, to deliniate a

> chart, we look at MD-AD-PD and ignore SAD in most cases as we are not sure

> of the accuracy of birth time. However, when it comes to twins, the tendency

> is to totally depend on SAD and not give much importance to the other three.

> The level of accuracy of the birth times are no different in case of twin

> births. Hence, I wonder why we tend to work this way!

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidyawrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Krishna,

> >

> > ///Hence, my guess that the doctor might not have not recorded the time

> > of birth of the first baby could well be correct!///

> >

> > As you saw on the video (if you watched it) the doctor pronounces that

> > the child is born, as soon as it's born. However he himself doesn't

> > physically record the time. This is the responsibility (duty) of a

> > trained nurse who must accurately record all information i.e. time of

> > birth, baby's weight, length etc, etc.. Having been a nurse and aware of

> > the strict training involved, I'm confident that these same procedures

> > are adhered to throughout all hospitals world-wide.

> >

> > Best Wishes,

> > Mrs. Wendy

> > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > ___

> >

> > -

> > " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58<kmurthys58%40gmail.com>

> > >

> > <jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>>

> > Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

> > Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

> >

> > Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

> >

> > Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

> >

> > Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

> > Bangalore

> > for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

> >

> > The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

> > was

> > carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

> > and

> > through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

> > exclaiming

> > 'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

> > when

> > they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

> > might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

> > well

> > be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

> > is

> > very high.

> >

> > They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

> > differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

> > only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

> > Both

> > of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

> > level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

> > their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

> > jewellary

> > show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

> > actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

> > at

> > work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

> > mentioned

> > that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

> > the

> > second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

> >

> > I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

> > them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

> > people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

> > younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

> > to

> > speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

> > new

> > ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

> > scale.

> > The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

> > such

> > hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

> > conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

> > younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

> > to

> > them.

> >

> > *

> > My analysis is as follows:

> >

> > *1. Elder Twin*

> >

> > Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

> > Jup

> > occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

> > navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

> > got

> > married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

> >

> > *2. Younger Twin*

> >

> > 7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

> > Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

> > is a

> > slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

> > same

> > navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

> > debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

> > Jup-Sun

> > period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

> > does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

> > out

> > of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

> >

> > I request learned members to share their opinion.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Krishna

> >

> > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

> > kmurthys58 <kmurthys58%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> > > that he

> > > will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> > > me.

> > > I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

> > >

> > > 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> > > 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> > > 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> > > pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> > > like

> > > him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> > > know

> > > this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> > > 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> > > is

> > > exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> > > mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

> > >

> > > I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> >

>

May 13, 2009

Dear Krishna ji and Mrs. Wendy,

My take away knowledge that I am looking for from this exercise is to

1) Find out the procedure in how you and Krishnaji and others if they would like

to share, on how the Delay is computed and the factors that go in.

2) The procedure for finding out the reason for the twins having different

natures. What factors go into it while delineating the same.

Can you and Krishnaji share the same, then atleast I can try to understand how

you are analyzing the same.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas wrote:

>

> Dear Krishna ji,

>

> I am pressed for time, however I wanted to share something quickly.

>

> Another scenario also arises in which is can be ASSUMED that

>

> 1) The children were born 2 mins apart or 3 minutes apart

> AND

> 2) The offset or the noting down of time of the first twin was off by 5 or 6

minutes.

>

> So if you were to change the offset of the time of birth of the first twin by

5/6 mins and keep the difference between the 2 children to be 2 mins (i.e.

accouding to both of your definition of child birth), what Krishna ji is saying

can still be possible.

>

> So we have 2 factors at play here.

>

> So if the first twin came out 5 to 6 mins earlier then one might have navamsa

lagna to be libra and the other to be virgo.

>

> Or in the other scenario, one can have virgo lagna and the other libra. This

scenario has not been studied in detail either.

>

> That said, both of you have not given the reason for delay or the calculation?

>

> Can anyone give that and what factors does one attribute to the nature

difference?

>

> Why in one case the marriage is delayed by so much as compared to the other

one who was married earlier? What is the calculation of that and the reason

behind it?

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mrs. Wendy,

> >

> > The point you have raised about the time gap between the two births is

> > perfectly valid for normal situations. I am talking about a situation where

> > the doctor and the staff were not geared up for a twin birth and they only

> > discovered it during the operation. I am only saying that under such special

> > situations, the difference of 5-6 minutes could be possible. I could be

> > wrong. In any case, I am planning to talk to one of my cousins who is

> > pediatrician and a neo natal specialist and running a nursing home in

> > Bangalore about such a possibility. He has also worked in UK and Australian

> > hospitals for 10-12 years before settling down in Bangalore. Last year alone

> > his nursing home delivered about 500+ babies. I would like to take his

> > opinion is on this issue before concluding anything.

> >

> > I have one observation on using SAD to make a call. Normally, to deliniate a

> > chart, we look at MD-AD-PD and ignore SAD in most cases as we are not sure

> > of the accuracy of birth time. However, when it comes to twins, the tendency

> > is to totally depend on SAD and not give much importance to the other three.

> > The level of accuracy of the birth times are no different in case of twin

> > births. Hence, I wonder why we tend to work this way!

> >

> > Regards,

> > Krishna

> >

> > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya@>wrote:

> >

> > >

> > > Dear Krishna,

> > >

> > > ///Hence, my guess that the doctor might not have not recorded the time

> > > of birth of the first baby could well be correct!///

> > >

> > > As you saw on the video (if you watched it) the doctor pronounces that

> > > the child is born, as soon as it's born. However he himself doesn't

> > > physically record the time. This is the responsibility (duty) of a

> > > trained nurse who must accurately record all information i.e. time of

> > > birth, baby's weight, length etc, etc.. Having been a nurse and aware of

> > > the strict training involved, I'm confident that these same procedures

> > > are adhered to throughout all hospitals world-wide.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes,

> > > Mrs. Wendy

> > > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > > ___

> > >

> > > -

> > > " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58@<kmurthys58%40gmail.com>

> > > >

> > > <jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>>

> > > Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:53 PM

> > > Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

> > >

> > > Dear Mrs. Wendy, Ash ji, and All,

> > >

> > > Here are the details about the twins as promised by me:

> > >

> > > Both the parents visited me yesterday itself as they had to visit

> > > Bangalore

> > > for some urgent purchases. Here is the story:

> > >

> > > The mother told me that no one had an idea including the doctor that she

> > > was

> > > carrying twins until they were actually born. Delivery was in a hospital

> > > and

> > > through a C-Section. The lady said that she remembers the doctor

> > > exclaiming

> > > 'Oh! there is one more baby!' after picking up the first baby. That was

> > > when

> > > they discovered it is a twin pregnancy. Hence, my guess that the doctor

> > > might not have not recorded the time of birth of the first baby could

> > > well

> > > be correct! The lady also thought that the probability of such an event

> > > is

> > > very high.

> > >

> > > They are not identical twins, are fraternal as there are some minor

> > > differences in their appearance according to the parents. They said that

> > > only close family members can see the difference and most others don't.

> > > Both

> > > of them were average students at school and used to score around the same

> > > level. They only completed High School and did not go to college. After

> > > their Metriculation they joined their family business. They run a

> > > jewellary

> > > show room. Currently, Both the parents and the two boys are all involved

> > > actively in the business. I believe that both the boys do similar tasks

> > > at

> > > work, no difference in their responsibilities. However, the lady

> > > mentioned

> > > that she notices some patches when the first boy is much more active and

> > > the

> > > second one is relaxed and vice-versa often.

> > >

> > > I understand that there are some distinct behavioural differences between

> > > them. The elder one is more mature, mingles with people, gives respect to

> > > people and is discrete while saying something to others. However, the

> > > younger one is agressive and has a don't care attitude, does not hesitate

> > > to

> > > speak his heart out. The younger one is more ambitious, comes out with

> > > new

> > > ideas and presses his father to expand the business to a much bigger

> > > scale.

> > > The younger one is also learning to play guitar. The elder one has no

> > > such

> > > hobbies, both of them enjoy listening to music though. *These attributes

> > > conirm my proposal that the elder one has Simha navamsha langa and the

> > > younger one has Kanya navamsha lagna, by looking at the planets in trines

> > > to

> > > them.

> > >

> > > *

> > > My analysis is as follows:

> > >

> > > *1. Elder Twin*

> > >

> > > Though 7L Jup is 12H in Rasi, the marriage happened quite early because

> > > Jup

> > > occupies navamsha langa. Venus in well placed in Navamsha. Though 7L in

> > > navamsha Saturn is in 6H, co-lord Rahu is exalted in Navamsha! The boy

> > > got

> > > married in Jup-Sat period, which is understandable.

> > >

> > > *2. Younger Twin*

> > >

> > > 7L Jup is in 12H in Rasi, and for his bad luck same gets repeated in

> > > Navamsha (virgo navamsha lagna). So, the problem gets compounded. There

> > > is a

> > > slim chance for marriage in Jup-Sun period as Sun and Rahu are in the

> > > same

> > > navamsha. I doubt if the marriage takes place during Jup-Moon as Moon is

> > > debilitated in Navamsha and conjunct Ketu. Jup-Mars period is like

> > > Jup-Sun

> > > period offering slim chance as Mars is with Rahu in Rasi. However, if he

> > > does not get married until Jup-Mars, I feel that all the hurdles will be

> > > out

> > > of the way and he will definitely get married in Jup-Rah.

> > >

> > > I request learned members to share their opinion.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <

> > > kmurthys58@ <kmurthys58%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > A few minutes back the father of the twins called me up and told me

> > > > that he

> > > > will be visiting Bangalore sometime next week and he will come and meet

> > > > me.

> > > > I did manage to get a couple of details over the phone:

> > > >

> > > > 1. Date of marriage of the elder twin - June 21, 2002

> > > > 2. Date of the birth of daughter for elder twin - June 24, 2004

> > > > 3. I understand that there is considerable difference in the behavioral

> > > > pattern of the two boys. The father told me that the elder boy is more

> > > > like

> > > > him and the younger one is more like the mother. However, as I don't

> > > > know

> > > > this couple well, that does not ring anything in my mind.

> > > > 4. I asked him to tell me whether the difference in their birth times

> > > > is

> > > > exactly 2 minutes or whether he feels it could be like 5-6 minutes. He

> > > > mentioned that it is possible that it could be more than two minutes.

> > > >

> > > > I will collect more details when I personally meet him.

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Krishna

> > >

> >

>

May 13, 2009

Dear Ash ji,I think I have already given answers to both of your questions in one of my earlier messages that I wrote after meeting the parents of the twins.Regards,Krishna

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:36 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

Dear Krishna ji and Mrs. Wendy,

My take away knowledge that I am looking for from this exercise is to

1) Find out the procedure in how you and Krishnaji and others if they would like to share, on how the Delay is computed and the factors that go in.

2) The procedure for finding out the reason for the twins having different natures. What factors go into it while delineating the same.

Can you and Krishnaji share the same, then atleast I can try to understand how you are analyzing the same.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas wrote:

>

> Dear Krishna ji,

>

> I am pressed for time, however I wanted to share something quickly.

>

> Another scenario also arises in which is can be ASSUMED that

>

> 1) The children were born 2 mins apart or 3 minutes apart

> AND

> 2) The offset or the noting down of time of the first twin was off by 5 or 6 minutes.

>

> So if you were to change the offset of the time of birth of the first twin by 5/6 mins and keep the difference between the 2 children to be 2 mins (i.e. accouding to both of your definition of child birth), what Krishna ji is saying can still be possible.

>

> So we have 2 factors at play here.

>

> So if the first twin came out 5 to 6 mins earlier then one might have navamsa lagna to be libra and the other to be virgo.

>

> Or in the other scenario, one can have virgo lagna and the other libra. This scenario has not been studied in detail either.

>

> That said, both of you have not given the reason for delay or the calculation?

>

> Can anyone give that and what factors does one attribute to the nature difference?

>

> Why in one case the marriage is delayed by so much as compared to the other one who was married earlier? What is the calculation of that and the reason behind it?

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: