A puzzling case of twins!

[Guest guest]

Dear All,I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

The birth details are:DOB: Jan 28, 1980POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is concerned?

Regards,Krishna

[Guest guest]

Apologies if this comes through twice...having some problems with my

e-mail :-(

_________________________________

 

 

Dear Krishna,

 

In such instances it's absolutely vital to have a correct T.O.B.. It's

also necessary to have the precise date of the wedding and birth of the

child... Only then can we determine the promise of an event from the

actual fruition of that event.

 

Taking a cursory look at the two charts and stabbing at a date in 2003

(say 25 Mar?), we find that the promised event could have been supported

by pranadasa of Venus. For the younger twin this could have been blocked

by the pranadasa of Mars. Of course I'm only stabbing at a date here, but

in any case (whatever date it might be) we cannot ignore the influence of

pranadasa... you can see more here: http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm

 

Parashara says in BPHS Ch.63

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch63.htm

 

*83. -The revered sage Parasara said--O Brahmin! here I have described to

you the effects of Nakshatra (Vimsottari) Dasas etc. The good or adverse

predictions should be made after assessing judiciously the auspiciousness

and inauspiciousness of all the five, namely Dasa, Antardasa, Pratyantar

Dasa, Sookshma Dasa and Prana Dasa.*

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:12 PM

A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear All,

 

I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two

minutes

apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is

married

since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or

a

few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to

the

pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son

even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that

they

will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly.

Somehow,

they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are

into

family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys

look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and

I

have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

 

The birth details are:

 

DOB: Jan 28, 1980

POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

 

What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

concerned?

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mrs. Wendy,I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.

Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna,

 

In such instances it's absolutely vital to have a correct T.O.B.. It's

also necessary to have the precise date of the wedding and birth of the

child... Only then can we determine the promise of an event from the

actual fruition of that event.

 

Taking a cursory look at the two charts and stabbing at a date in 2003

(say 25 Mar?), we find that the promised event could have been supported

by pranadasa of Venus. Fo the younger twin this could have been blocked

by the pranadasa of Mars. Of course I'm only stabbing at a date here, but

in any case (whatever date it might be) we cannot ignore the influence of

pranadasa... you can see more here: http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm

 

Parashara says in BPHS Ch.63

http://jyotishvidya.com/ch63.htm

 

*83. -The revered sage Parasara said--O Brahmin! here I have described to

you the effects of Nakshatra (Vimsottari) Dasas etc. The good or adverse

predictions should be made after assessing judiciously the auspiciousness

and inauspiciousness of all the five, namely Dasa, Antardasa, Pratyantar

Dasa, Sookshma Dasa and Prana Dasa.*

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:12 PM

A puzzling case of twins!

 

Dear All,

 

I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two

minutes

apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is

married

since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or

a

few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to

the

pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son

even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that

they

will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly.

Somehow,

they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are

into

family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys

look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and

I

have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

 

The birth details are:

 

DOB: Jan 28, 1980

POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

 

What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

concerned?

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna,

 

/// However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child

birth of the elder boy.///

 

Well that is a shame as it denies the opportunity to study the different

influences in the lives of these twins. I would have liked the

opportunity to consider the influence of the smaller dasas and the

relative transits.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:21 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

 

I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the

date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mrs. Wendy,I got the info. through my cousin who mentioned to me that the father of the twins is keen on talking to me about the marriage prospects of their second son. Hopefully, I will be able to get the required data soon.

Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna,

 

/// However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child

birth of the elder boy.///

 

Well that is a shame as it denies the opportunity to study the different

influences in the lives of these twins. I would have liked the

opportunity to consider the influence of the smaller dasas and the

relative transits.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:21 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

Dear Mrs. Wendy,

 

I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their

astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the

date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy.

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna ji,

 

If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that is

recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when the

umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

 

Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. say if

the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital if they

were born in a hospital?

 

If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the

lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would also

place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the scenario were

that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of elder might be 23:25

and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or if the moment of first

cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you can get / ask the native's

father, could such a scenario exist or is there a possibility of such things

happening?

 

If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and the

other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference and some

significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful for studying

the same.

 

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58

wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes

> apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married

> since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

> married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a

> few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the

> pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son

> even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they

> will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow,

> they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into

> family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys

> look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I

> have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

> fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

>

> The birth details are:

>

> DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

>

> What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

> concerned?

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash ji,I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I have to explore this further.

Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

 

Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital if they were born in a hospital?

 

If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a possibility of such things happening?

 

If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful for studying the same.

 

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear All,

>

> I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes

> apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married

> since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

> married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a

> few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the

> pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son

> even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they

> will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow,

> they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into

> family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys

> look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I

> have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

> fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

>

> The birth details are:

>

> DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

>

> What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

> concerned?

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna ji,

 

I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate

the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

 

Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but

once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will

be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will

try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out

the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that

is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with

more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

 

With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam

lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your

mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that

both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both

the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be

with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also

indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was

their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science

or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional

good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or

something else.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58

wrote:

>

> Dear Ash ji,

>

> I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their

> father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> have to explore this further.

>

> Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Krishna ji,

> >

> > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that

> > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when

> > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> >

> > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

> > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital

> > if they were born in a hospital?

> >

> > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26

> > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would

> > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of

> > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or

> > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you

> > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a

> > possibility of such things happening?

> >

> > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

> > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and

> > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference

> > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful

> > for studying the same.

> >

> > Thanking you,

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>,

> > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two

> > minutes

> > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is

> > married

> > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

> > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or

> > a

> > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to

> > the

> > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son

> > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that

> > they

> > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly.

> > Somehow,

> > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are

> > into

> > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys

> > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and

> > I

> > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

> > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

> > >

> > > The birth details are:

> > >

> > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> > >

> > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

> > > concerned?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger...///

 

That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

 

However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

have identical horoscopes.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

 

Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

hospital if they were born in a hospital?

 

If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.

That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay.

So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the

birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something

like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart?

So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario

exist or is there a possibility of such things happening?

 

If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working

and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it

will be helpful for studying the same.

 

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one.

 

Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi

changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all

angles and make a sincere attempt.

 

I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna,

the solution would become simple?

 

On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by

taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can

control that.

 

Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally,

now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work

around this.

 

In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the

reasons and it will be good learning for all list members.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger...///

>

> That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

> having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

>

> However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

> navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

> childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

> have identical horoscopes.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

>

> -

> " ashsam73 " <kas

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM

> Re: A puzzling case of twins!

>

>

> Dear Krishna ji,

>

> If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

> that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

> it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

>

> Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

> say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

> hospital if they were born in a hospital?

>

> If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.

> That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay.

> So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the

> birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something

> like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart?

> So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario

> exist or is there a possibility of such things happening?

>

> If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

> inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working

> and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

> difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it

> will be helpful for studying the same.

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

Perhaps I misread your post? I thought you meant that lagna would change

for one of the twins (only). Far too late here, I'm afraid, so will go

over it again tomorrow with a fresh mind.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:10 AM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one.

 

Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the

rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore

it from all angles and make a sincere attempt.

 

I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the

lagna, the solution would become simple?

 

On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts,

however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround "

nature and can control that.

 

Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive

naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced

techniques to work around this.

 

In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can

provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya

wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then

> at

> 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the

> younger...///

>

> That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

> having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

>

> However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

> navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

> childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

> have identical horoscopes.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

[Guest guest]

Dear Gaurav ji,

 

Making a sincere attempt is in our hands with whatsoever little knowledge we all

have and sharing the same. We all might come out more knowledgable and learn

some new things from new and fresh perspective of other learned members.

 

Krishna ji mentioned about his gut of studying Leo navamsa, which again changes

by making the time a few minutes earlier, my making it 5 mins later the lagna

changes. As things stand now, we

 

1) do not have a lot of data to work with

2) we did some prelim or high level study like navamsa changes / rasi changes

etc.

3) Krishna ji said he will get back to us with more data when he has privy to

it.

4) Wendy ji gave us her experience of her granson's twins experience.

 

This is the basic ground work and churning of thoughts. Now we each have our

own approach to the chart using the techniques we have learnt or have been

taught or gained though practice. So when we get more data, we all can share

our perspective keeping the main theme of Parasara on this list and working

within the frame work and parameters as laid down by Wendyji.

 

So after the through study, we can reach some conclusion or not, but one thing,

we all will be wealther with more knowledge as Wendy ji, Krishna ji, yourself

and I hope others too will contribute.

 

You are absolutely correct, twins charts should be the take only after one has

got a good and strong grip on the basics.

 

There are alot of things that are still unknown, but atleast we can work with

the things we know in the hope that with the collective knowledge we can try to

being the understand the unknown. If this chart takes us one step close, i

think its good learning.

 

We may or may not be able to understand it all, but we sure well can give it our

sincere attempt with whatever little we know.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote:

>

> ||Jai Ramakrishna||

> Dear Ash & Mrs.Wendy,

> It is one of the most of the difficult area, perhaps have been covered by many

esteemed astrologers, scholars & amateurs, but could we really solve it out--the

actual birth time?

> It will remain to be a mystery till our death--sometimes we swear by the

medical certificate that *This is my right time of birth*, but on what basis?

> Now we may speak about watch, what about those days, when there was no watch,

no ephimeris, no almanac---only calculations by looking at the sky?

> Thank you,

> Gaurav.

>

> jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Wendy,

> >

> > Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one.

> >

> > Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the

rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from

all angles and make a sincere attempt.

> >

> > I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the

lagna, the solution would become simple?

> >

> > On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however,

by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can

control that.

> >

> > Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive

naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced

techniques to work around this.

> >

> > In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide

the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members.

> >

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ash,

> > >

> > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger...///

> > >

> > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

> > > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

> > >

> > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

> > > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

> > > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

> > > have identical horoscopes.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes,

> > > Mrs. Wendy

> > > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > > ___

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " ashsam73 " <kas@>

> > > <jyotish-vidya >

> > > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM

> > > Re: A puzzling case of twins!

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Krishna ji,

> > >

> > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

> > > that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

> > > it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> > >

> > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

> > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

> > > hospital if they were born in a hospital?

> > >

> > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.

> > > That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay.

> > > So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the

> > > birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something

> > > like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart?

> > > So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario

> > > exist or is there a possibility of such things happening?

> > >

> > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

> > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working

> > > and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

> > > difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it

> > > will be helpful for studying the same.

> > >

> > > Thanking you,

> > > Cheers !!!

> > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy ji,

 

Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email with a

fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned members at the same

time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might round ridicilous but then

please be patient as not everyone is at the same level of understanding this

shastra so please forgive me if certain things might sound obvious.

 

I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji will share

what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him. In the mean time,

here are the possibilities which one can think off. Please feel free to add

your thoughts or some scenario that i might have overlooked or missed.

 

1) Time is perfect and as given.

2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be

different.

3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin

4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up

three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra

5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or there

is a chance that the watch might be wrong.

6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be

approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know if

someone was sleepy when recording the time :-).

 

We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at home?

 

These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add or

delete options.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

>

> Perhaps I misread your post? I thought you meant that lagna would change

> for one of the twins (only). Far too late here, I'm afraid, so will go

> over it again tomorrow with a fresh mind.

>

> Best Wishes,

> Mrs. Wendy

> http://JyotishVidya.com

> ___

>

>

> -

> " ashsam73 " <kas

> <jyotish-vidya >

> Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:10 AM

> Re: A puzzling case of twins!

>

>

> Dear Wendy,

>

> Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one.

>

> Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the

> rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore

> it from all angles and make a sincere attempt.

>

> I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the

> lagna, the solution would become simple?

>

> On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts,

> however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround "

> nature and can control that.

>

> Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive

> naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced

> techniques to work around this.

>

> In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can

> provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members.

>

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

>

>

>

> jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ash,

> >

> > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then

> > at

> > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the

> > younger...///

> >

> > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

> > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

> >

> > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

> > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

> > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

> > have identical horoscopes.

> >

> > Best Wishes,

> > Mrs. Wendy

> > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > ___

>

[Guest guest]

Respected Gurujan,

 

Having a case study about twins is such a rare event. Currently In this case we

do not have much specifics etc.,

 

I was wondering if esteemed members could post some information about how to go

about charting and judging charts of Twins. In this case we are unsure about the

exact time and due to the deviation in their destinies we are theorizing their

navamsa lagnas to be different.

 

But it would great if the Seniors - could write up about how to chart birth data

of twins - who are born say 2-3 minutes apart - without any " Watch error " - Add

to this how to judge and read charts of twins, characteristics, tendencies,

personalities - how to separate one from another at a specific level.

 

In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and Narasimhaji had

used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their personalities. Not sure if this is a

gold standard for this purpose.

 

If other members have any examples of birth data of twins - we can share it with

the group - may be few life events will go a long way.

 

I dont wish this thread to become a boring/long winding thread - but would hate

to lose this golden opportunity to explore and learn about judging charts of

twins.

 

Thanks.

Shrikanth

 

 

jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas wrote:

>

> Dear Krishna ji,

>

> I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would

indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

>

> Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa,

but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we

will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I

will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work

out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and

that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord

with more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

>

> With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing

vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I

read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did

mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find

out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and

the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then

that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school

years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and

other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be

an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in

say arts or something else.

>

> Thanks,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

>

> jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ash ji,

> >

> > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their

> > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> > have to explore this further.

> >

> > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Krishna

> >

> > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas@> wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Krishna ji,

> > >

> > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

that

> > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it

when

> > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> > >

> > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

> > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

hospital

> > > if they were born in a hospital?

> > >

> > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26

> > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would

> > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of

> > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that

or

> > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if

you

> > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there

a

> > > possibility of such things happening?

> > >

> > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

> > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and

> > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

difference

> > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be

helpful

> > > for studying the same.

> > >

> > > Thanking you,

> > > Cheers !!!

> > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> > >

> > >

> > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>,

> > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > >

> > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two

> > > minutes

> > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is

> > > married

> > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get

> > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together

(or

> > > a

> > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to

> > > the

> > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder

son

> > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that

> > > they

> > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly.

> > > Somehow,

> > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are

> > > into

> > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both

boys

> > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding

and

> > > I

> > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or

> > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart.

> > > >

> > > > The birth details are:

> > > >

> > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> > > >

> > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is

> > > > concerned?

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Krishna

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna ji,

 

Here is my attempt with Leo lagna. It does make sense.

 

Calculation is as follows.

 

For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its

moderated by Guru. Whereas for

Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam,

there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is

causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin. For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due

to Sa in 7h house.

 

Calculation for delay for elder twin.

 

Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord

and 2nd lord in navamsa.

This causes full delay.

Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay. Guru is eager to give marriage being lord

of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay

from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th). Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd

lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is

Leo.

 

Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is

about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore

delay is about 24 years. So

marriage can happen after that.

Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak

of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts.

 

 

Calculation for delay of younger twin.

 

Here in this case, lagna is vargottam. Delay caused by Saturn remains same as

Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and

Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa. So there is delay due to Saturn. This is again moderated by Guru who

aspects Sa. However with lagna becoming

vargottam, the house repeat in rasi

and navamsa so here its special.

Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects

Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord. This might cause Guru to give delay as

well. Again there is 1 zero in Rasi

due to Saturn in 7th house.

 

So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows.

 

Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder

twin. So that is about 24 years as

Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru. Now Guru is causing delay and both FK

and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak. So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3

aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house. So at the age of 24, Guru will be over

natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when

it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th

house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd

aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it

will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house. So delay will go upto

28 years or there abouts.

 

So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very

end. So we can skip the antra also

Venus is in 6th house.

After that now he is running the antra of Sun. Sun is powerful but its antra is running

till

 

 

 

 

Sun

 

 

2008-Aug-03

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

 

 

Sun’s antra is powerful but Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha

is in 6th house so thereby its affected. Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful

to give result of marriage.

 

 

 

 

Moon

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

2010-Sep-21

 

 

 

 

 

So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the

delays are fitting. The above

procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts.

 

Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is

intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy

life. He will not oppose anyone on

the face, and does not have fixed thoughts. His mind is also more wavering.

 

Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared

to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk.

 

The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more

convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive. The older one is more firm in thoughts

as compared to the younger one. The

older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more

easily as compared to the younger one.

 

Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji. If you can confirm these points above,

it will be good learning for me.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of ashsam73

Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58

PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: A

puzzling case of twins!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would

indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

 

Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but

once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we

will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I

will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work

out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and

that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord

with more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

 

With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam

lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your

mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that

both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both

the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can

be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would

also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years,

what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other

science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an

exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say

arts or something else.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya ,

Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Ash ji,

>

> I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their

> father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> have to explore this further.

>

> Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

matter.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Krishna ji,

> >

> > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the

time that

> > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

it when

> > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> >

> > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time

i.e.

> > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

hospital

> > if they were born in a hospital?

> >

> > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26

> > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That

would

> > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth

of

> > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like

that or

> > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe

if you

> > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is

there a

> > possibility of such things happening?

> >

> > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food,

their

> > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard

working and

> > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

difference

> > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be

helpful

> > for studying the same.

> >

> > Thanking you,

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>,

> > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about

two

> > minutes

> > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy

is

> > married

> > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet

get

> > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage

together (or

> > a

> > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to

give-in to

> > the

> > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the

elder son

> > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking

that

> > they

> > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty

quickly.

> > Somehow,

> > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both

boys are

> > into

> > > family business working with their father. They are well to do.

Both boys

> > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a

wedding and

> > I

> > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical

or

> > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their

chart.

> > >

> > > The birth details are:

> > >

> > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> > >

> > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their

marriage is

> > > concerned?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

//1) Time is perfect and as given.//

 

Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise.

 

//2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

might be different.//

 

I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from

the womb (capable of individual life).

 

//3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin//

 

Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this.

 

//4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that

opens up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra//

 

Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.

 

I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only

twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several

years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was

based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the

best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't

remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in

more general terms.

 

As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother

(elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not

only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was

born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:56 AM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Wendy ji,

 

Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email

with a fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned

members at the same time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might

round ridicilous but then please be patient as not everyone is at the

same level of understanding this shastra so please forgive me if certain

things might sound obvious.

 

I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji

will share what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him.

In the mean time, here are the possibilities which one can think off.

Please feel free to add your thoughts or some scenario that i might have

overlooked or missed.

 

1) Time is perfect and as given.

2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

might be different.

3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin

4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens

up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra

5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or

there is a chance that the watch might be wrong.

6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be

approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know

if someone was sleepy when recording the time :-).

 

We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at

home?

 

These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add

or delete options.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

You wrote

 

////4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the

Lagna will change and that

opens up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra//

 

Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.//

 

Ash : Is there any

particular reason as to why you think in India and in a smaller town this is

not possible?

 

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Wendy,

 

When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of

Delay and what factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of

marriage for the younger twin?

 

What is the difference that has caused the delay between

these twins? Please share your

opinion as well on how you solve or approach the chart and what factors you use

and the calculation for calculating delay w.r.t marriage in this case.

 

The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it

seems from your post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay

(unless I am mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren

who are twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you

have used dasha and transits to calculate the delay.

 

If you do not

mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after this chart is

over. That way, we can get to solve

two twin charts.

 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday April 28, 2009 11:41

PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: A

puzzling case of twins!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

//1) Time is perfect and as given.//

 

Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise.

 

//2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

might be different.//

 

I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from

the womb (capable of individual life).

 

//3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin//

 

Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this.

 

//4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that

opens up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra//

 

Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.

 

I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only

twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several

years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was

based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the

best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't

remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in

more general terms.

 

As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother

(elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not

only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was

born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" ashsam73 " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:56 AM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

Dear Wendy ji,

 

Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email

with a fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned

members at the same time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might

round ridicilous but then please be patient as not everyone is at the

same level of understanding this shastra so please forgive me if certain

things might sound obvious.

 

I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji

will share what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him.

In the mean time, here are the possibilities which one can think off.

Please feel free to add your thoughts or some scenario that i might have

overlooked or missed.

 

1) Time is perfect and as given.

2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

might be different.

3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin

4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens

up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra

5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or

there is a chance that the watch might be wrong.

6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be

approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know

if someone was sleepy when recording the time :-).

 

We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at

home?

 

These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add

or delete options.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash,

 

///When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and

what

factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for

the

younger twin?///

 

Neither twin is married...this is considered normal and quite acceptable

in this hedonistic 21st century, I'm afraid :-(

 

///The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems

from your

post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am

mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who

are

twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have

used dasha and transits to calculate the delay.///

 

Yes, you are mistaken Ash...

Dasas/transits (as per Parashara) are used for the timing and fructifying

of events.

 

///If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren

after

this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts.///

 

By all means, I've actually (just now) included the birth data under

their photo http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm for the benefit of those

who want to take a look.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Ash's Corner " <kas

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:03 PM

RE: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Wendy,

 

When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and

what

factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for

the

younger twin?

 

What is the difference that has caused the delay between these twins?

Please share your opinion as well on how you solve or approach the chart

and

what factors you use and the calculation for calculating delay w.r.t

marriage in this case.

 

The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems from

your

post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am

mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who

are

twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have

used dasha and transits to calculate the delay.

 

If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after

this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

====================================

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ]

On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy

Tuesday April 28, 2009 11:41 PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Ash,

 

//1) Time is perfect and as given.//

 

Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise.

 

//2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times

might be different.//

 

I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from

the womb (capable of individual life).

 

//3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin//

 

Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this.

 

//4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that

opens up three possibility

a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo

b) both twins are virgo

c) both twins are libra//

 

Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.

 

I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only

twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several

years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was

based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the

best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't

remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in

more general terms.

 

As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother

(elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not

only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was

born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash ji,That is very kind of you to provide detailed calculations and analysis based on my assumption. In fact, it was not a blind assumption! That is an outcome of applying my BTR technique. I got the time as 23:13:56 for the first and 23:20:23 for the second.

Regarding the possibility of the recording errors, I guess that the doctor may not have had the presence of mind to note down the time of birth for the first baby as he/she had the job of clearing the second one. He/she might have noted down the time for the second and might have deducted a couple of minutes for the first. I know this is only speculation, but seems to have high probability. One thing is for sure that the birth has taken place in the hospital and not at home. In our community, I have not heard anyone going for home delivery since ages. Knowing this family, I can vouch this for sure. But, sure I will find out the truth from the father.

In my own perspective, if one goes by navamsha chart, for Leo lagna, 7L Saturn is in the 6H, but Jupiter is blessing the lagna and Venus in the 9th supporting dharma. For Virgo navamsha lagna, 7L Jupiter is in the 12th from lagna and Venus is also in a dusthana, indicating additional delays for the second one.

I have to go out for some urgent work now. I will come back and write more...Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Ash's Corner <kas wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

Here is my attempt with Leo lagna.  It does make sense.

 

Calculation is as follows.

 

For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its

moderated by Guru.  Whereas for

Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam,

there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is

causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin.  For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due

to Sa in 7h house.

 

Calculation for delay for elder twin.

 

Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord

and 2nd lord in navamsa. 

This causes full delay.  

Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay.  Guru is eager to give marriage being lord

of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay

from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th).  Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd

lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is

Leo.

 

Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is

about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore

delay is about 24 years.  So

marriage can happen after that. 

Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak

of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts.

 

 

Calculation for delay of younger twin.

 

Here in this case, lagna is vargottam.  Delay caused by Saturn remains same as

Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and

Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa.  So there is delay due to Saturn.  This is again moderated by Guru who

aspects Sa.  However with lagna becoming

vargottam, the house repeat in rasi

and navamsa so here its special. 

Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects

Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord.  This might cause Guru to give delay as

well.  Again there is 1 zero in Rasi

due to Saturn in 7th house.

 

So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows.

 

Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder

twin.  So that is about 24 years as

Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru.  Now Guru is causing delay and both FK

and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak.  So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3

aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house.  So at the age of 24, Guru will be over

natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when

it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th

house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd

aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it

will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house.  So delay will go upto

28 years or there abouts.

 

So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very

end.  So we can skip the antra also

Venus is in 6th house. 

After that now he is running the antra of Sun.  Sun is powerful but its antra is running

till

 

 

 

 

Sun

 

 

2008-Aug-03

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

 

 

Sun’s antra is powerful but  Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha

is in 6th house so thereby its affected.  Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful

to give result of marriage.

 

 

 

 

Moon

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

2010-Sep-21

 

 

 

 

 

So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the

delays are fitting.  The above

procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts.

 

Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is

intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy

life.  He will not oppose anyone on

the face, and does not have fixed thoughts.  His mind is also more wavering.

 

Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared

to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk. 

 

The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more

convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive.  The older one is more firm in thoughts

as compared to the younger one.  The

older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more

easily as compared to the younger one.

 

Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji.  If you can confirm these points above,

it will be good learning for me. 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of ashsam73

Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58

PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: A

puzzling case of twins!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would

indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

 

Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but

once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we

will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I

will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work

out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and

that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord

with more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

 

With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam

lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your

mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that

both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both

the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can

be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would

also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years,

what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other

science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an

exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say

arts or something else.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya ,

Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Ash ji,

>

> I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their

> father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> have to explore this further.

>

> Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

matter.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Krishna ji,

> >

> > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the

time that

> > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

it when

> > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> >

> > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time

i.e.

> > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

hospital

> > if they were born in a hospital?

> >

> > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26

> > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That

would

> > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth

of

> > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like

that or

> > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe

if you

> > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is

there a

> > possibility of such things happening?

> >

> > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food,

their

> > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard

working and

> > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

difference

> > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be

helpful

> > for studying the same.

> >

> > Thanking you,

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>,

> > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about

two

> > minutes

> > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy

is

> > married

> > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet

get

> > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage

together (or

> > a

> > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to

give-in to

> > the

> > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the

elder son

> > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking

that

> > they

> > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty

quickly.

> > Somehow,

> > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both

boys are

> > into

> > > family business working with their father. They are well to do.

Both boys

> > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a

wedding and

> > I

> > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical

or

> > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their

chart.

> > >

> > > The birth details are:

> > >

> > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> > >

> > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their

marriage is

> > > concerned?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Krishna,

 

If I might be permitted, I'd like to make a comment here...

 

///What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or

the first cry or

cutting the umbilical cord?///

 

Lotus birthing, an ancient tradition, is practised by many today...see

here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Birth

 

So that's one assumption (cutting of umbilical cord) that we can put to

rest. This topic BTW was discussed at length some years back if my memory

serves me...long-term members might recall this :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:43 AM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Dear Ash ji,

 

I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to

their

father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

have to explore this further.

 

Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

matter.

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mrs. Wendy,Yes, I have gone through this article earlier and have reached the same conclusion as you have. In fact, I believe that the birth takes place when the head of the baby comes into the open. I hope I will have some supporting data to justify this soon.

Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna,

 

If I might be permitted, I'd like to make a comment here...

 

///What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or

the first cry or

cutting the umbilical cord?///

 

Lotus birthing, an ancient tradition, is practised by many today...see

here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Birth

 

So that's one assumption (cutting of umbilical cord) that we can put to

rest. This topic BTW was discussed at length some years back if my memory

serves me...long-term members might recall this :-)

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

-

" Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:43 AM

Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

Dear Ash ji,

 

I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to

their

father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

have to explore this further.

 

Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

matter.

 

Regards,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Shrikanth,

 

///In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and

Narasimhaji had used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their

personalities. Not sure if this is a gold standard for this purpose.///

 

Narasimha Rao has his own ideas/methodology which are (generally) not in

accord with JV. So, I hope you won't mind if we don't base our

discussions on his writings.

 

Best Wishes,

Mrs. Wendy

http://JyotishVidya.com

___

 

 

-

" Shrikanth Gopalan " <vgshrikanth

<jyotish-vidya >

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:28 AM

Re: A puzzling case of twins!

 

 

Respected Gurujan,

 

Having a case study about twins is such a rare event. Currently In this

case we do not have much specifics etc.,

 

I was wondering if esteemed members could post some information about how

to go about charting and judging charts of Twins. In this case we are

unsure about the exact time and due to the deviation in their destinies

we are theorizing their navamsa lagnas to be different.

 

But it would great if the Seniors - could write up about how to chart

birth data of twins - who are born say 2-3 minutes apart - without any

" Watch error " - Add to this how to judge and read charts of twins,

characteristics, tendencies, personalities - how to separate one from

another at a specific level.

 

In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and

Narasimhaji had used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their

personalities. Not sure if this is a gold standard for this purpose.

 

If other members have any examples of birth data of twins - we can share

it with the group - may be few life events will go a long way.

 

I dont wish this thread to become a boring/long winding thread - but

would hate to lose this golden opportunity to explore and learn about

judging charts of twins.

 

Thanks.

Shrikanth

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash ji,I was looking at your analysis. You have indicated that Moon AD could be the probable period. However, I notice that Moon is conjunct Ketu in Navamsha. According to my understanding Ketu prevents marriage during Moon's AD. Do you consider this Ketu factor or not?

Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

Dear Ash ji,That is very kind of you to provide detailed calculations and analysis based on my assumption. In fact, it was not a blind assumption! That is an outcome of applying my BTR technique. I got the time as 23:13:56 for the first and 23:20:23 for the second.

Regarding the possibility of the recording errors, I guess that the doctor may not have had the presence of mind to note down the time of birth for the first baby as he/she had the job of clearing the second one. He/she might have noted down the time for the second and might have deducted a couple of minutes for the first. I know this is only speculation, but seems to have high probability. One thing is for sure that the birth has taken place in the hospital and not at home. In our community, I have not heard anyone going for home delivery since ages. Knowing this family, I can vouch this for sure. But, sure I will find out the truth from the father.

In my own perspective, if one goes by navamsha chart, for Leo lagna, 7L Saturn is in the 6H, but Jupiter is blessing the lagna and Venus in the 9th supporting dharma. For Virgo navamsha lagna, 7L Jupiter is in the 12th from lagna and Venus is also in a dusthana, indicating additional delays for the second one.

I have to go out for some urgent work now. I will come back and write more...Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Ash's Corner <kas wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

Here is my attempt with Leo lagna.  It does make sense.

 

Calculation is as follows.

 

For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its

moderated by Guru.  Whereas for

Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam,

there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is

causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin.  For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due

to Sa in 7h house.

 

Calculation for delay for elder twin.

 

Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord

and 2nd lord in navamsa. 

This causes full delay.  

Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay.  Guru is eager to give marriage being lord

of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay

from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th).  Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd

lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is

Leo.

 

Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is

about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore

delay is about 24 years.  So

marriage can happen after that. 

Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak

of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts.

 

 

Calculation for delay of younger twin.

 

Here in this case, lagna is vargottam.  Delay caused by Saturn remains same as

Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and

Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa.  So there is delay due to Saturn.  This is again moderated by Guru who

aspects Sa.  However with lagna becoming

vargottam, the house repeat in rasi

and navamsa so here its special. 

Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects

Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord.  This might cause Guru to give delay as

well.  Again there is 1 zero in Rasi

due to Saturn in 7th house.

 

So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows.

 

Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder

twin.  So that is about 24 years as

Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru.  Now Guru is causing delay and both FK

and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak.  So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3

aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house.  So at the age of 24, Guru will be over

natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when

it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th

house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd

aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it

will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house.  So delay will go upto

28 years or there abouts.

 

So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very

end.  So we can skip the antra also

Venus is in 6th house. 

After that now he is running the antra of Sun.  Sun is powerful but its antra is running

till

 

 

 

 

Sun

 

 

2008-Aug-03

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

 

 

Sun’s antra is powerful but  Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha

is in 6th house so thereby its affected.  Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful

to give result of marriage.

 

 

 

 

Moon

 

 

2009-May-22

 

 

2010-Sep-21

 

 

 

 

 

So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the

delays are fitting.  The above

procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts.

 

Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is

intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy

life.  He will not oppose anyone on

the face, and does not have fixed thoughts.  His mind is also more wavering.

 

Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared

to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk. 

 

The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more

convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive.  The older one is more firm in thoughts

as compared to the younger one.  The

older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more

easily as compared to the younger one.

 

Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji.  If you can confirm these points above,

it will be good learning for me. 

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

 

 

 

jyotish-vidya

[jyotish-vidya ] On

Behalf Of ashsam73

Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58

PM

jyotish-vidya

Re: A

puzzling case of twins!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Krishna ji,

 

I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would

indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath).

 

Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but

once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we

will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I

will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work

out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and

that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord

with more than 4 bindus in 11th house.

 

With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam

lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your

mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that

both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both

the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can

be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would

also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years,

what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other

science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an

exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say

arts or something else.

 

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya ,

Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote:

>

> Dear Ash ji,

>

> I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their

> father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha

> lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I

> have to explore this further.

>

> Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you

> consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or

> cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this

matter.

>

> Regards,

> Krishna

>

> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Krishna ji,

> >

> > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the

time that

> > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

it when

> > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> >

> > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time

i.e.

> > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

hospital

> > if they were born in a hospital?

> >

> > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

23:26

> > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That

would

> > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the

> > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth

of

> > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like

that or

> > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe

if you

> > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is

there a

> > possibility of such things happening?

> >

> > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food,

their

> > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard

working and

> > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

difference

> > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be

helpful

> > for studying the same.

> >

> > Thanking you,

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya

<jyotish-vidya%40>,

> > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > >

> > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about

two

> > minutes

> > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy

is

> > married

> > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet

get

> > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage

together (or

> > a

> > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to

give-in to

> > the

> > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the

elder son

> > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking

that

> > they

> > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty

quickly.

> > Somehow,

> > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both

boys are

> > into

> > > family business working with their father. They are well to do.

Both boys

> > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a

wedding and

> > I

> > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical

or

> > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their

chart.

> > >

> > > The birth details are:

> > >

> > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980

> > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)

> > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20

> > >

> > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their

marriage is

> > > concerned?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Krishna

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ash ji,I agree with each sentence you have written here. I couldn't agree more when you say: " There are a lot of things that are still unknown, but at least we can

work with the things we know in the hope that with the collective

knowledge we can try to being the understand the unknown. If this chart

takes us one step close, i think its good learning. " In fact, precisely for the same reason I posted this chart to the list.Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:04 AM, ashsam73 <kas wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Gaurav ji,

 

Making a sincere attempt is in our hands with whatsoever little knowledge we all have and sharing the same. We all might come out more knowledgable and learn some new things from new and fresh perspective of other learned members.

 

Krishna ji mentioned about his gut of studying Leo navamsa, which again changes by making the time a few minutes earlier, my making it 5 mins later the lagna changes. As things stand now, we

 

1) do not have a lot of data to work with

2) we did some prelim or high level study like navamsa changes / rasi changes etc.

3) Krishna ji said he will get back to us with more data when he has privy to it.

4) Wendy ji gave us her experience of her granson's twins experience.

 

This is the basic ground work and churning of thoughts. Now we each have our own approach to the chart using the techniques we have learnt or have been taught or gained though practice. So when we get more data, we all can share our perspective keeping the main theme of Parasara on this list and working within the frame work and parameters as laid down by Wendyji.

 

So after the through study, we can reach some conclusion or not, but one thing, we all will be wealther with more knowledge as Wendy ji, Krishna ji, yourself and I hope others too will contribute.

 

You are absolutely correct, twins charts should be the take only after one has got a good and strong grip on the basics.

 

There are alot of things that are still unknown, but atleast we can work with the things we know in the hope that with the collective knowledge we can try to being the understand the unknown. If this chart takes us one step close, i think its good learning.

 

We may or may not be able to understand it all, but we sure well can give it our sincere attempt with whatever little we know.

 

Cheers !!!

Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

 

jyotish-vidya , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote:

>

> ||Jai Ramakrishna||

> Dear Ash & Mrs.Wendy,

> It is one of the most of the difficult area, perhaps have been covered by many esteemed astrologers, scholars & amateurs, but could we really solve it out--the actual birth time?

> It will remain to be a mystery till our death--sometimes we swear by the medical certificate that *This is my right time of birth*, but on what basis?

> Now we may speak about watch, what about those days, when there was no watch, no ephimeris, no almanac---only calculations by looking at the sky?

> Thank you,

> Gaurav.

>

> jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Wendy,

> >

> > Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one.

> >

> > Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all angles and make a sincere attempt.

> >

> > I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna, the solution would become simple?

> >

> > On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can control that.

> >

> > Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work around this.

> >

> > In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members.

> >

> > Cheers !!!

> > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Ash,

> > >

> > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger...///

> > >

> > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from

> > > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-)

> > >

> > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and

> > > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still

> > > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly)

> > > have identical horoscopes.

> > >

> > > Best Wishes,

> > > Mrs. Wendy

> > > http://JyotishVidya.com

> > > ___

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > " ashsam73 " <kas@>

> > > <jyotish-vidya >

> > > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM

> > > Re: A puzzling case of twins!

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Krishna ji,

> > >

> > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time

> > > that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was

> > > it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry.

> > >

> > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e.

> > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the

> > > hospital if they were born in a hospital?

> > >

> > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at

> > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.

> > > That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay.

> > > So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the

> > > birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something

> > > like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart?

> > > So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario

> > > exist or is there a possibility of such things happening?

> > >

> > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their

> > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working

> > > and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ

> > > difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it

> > > will be helpful for studying the same.

> > >

> > > Thanking you,

> > > Cheers !!!

> > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca

> > >

> >

>