Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear All,I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. The birth details are:DOB: Jan 28, 1980POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20)TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is concerned? Regards,Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Apologies if this comes through twice...having some problems with my e-mail :-( _________________________________ Dear Krishna, In such instances it's absolutely vital to have a correct T.O.B.. It's also necessary to have the precise date of the wedding and birth of the child... Only then can we determine the promise of an event from the actual fruition of that event. Taking a cursory look at the two charts and stabbing at a date in 2003 (say 25 Mar?), we find that the promised event could have been supported by pranadasa of Venus. For the younger twin this could have been blocked by the pranadasa of Mars. Of course I'm only stabbing at a date here, but in any case (whatever date it might be) we cannot ignore the influence of pranadasa... you can see more here: http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm Parashara says in BPHS Ch.63 http://jyotishvidya.com/ch63.htm *83. -The revered sage Parasara said--O Brahmin! here I have described to you the effects of Nakshatra (Vimsottari) Dasas etc. The good or adverse predictions should be made after assessing judiciously the auspiciousness and inauspiciousness of all the five, namely Dasa, Antardasa, Pratyantar Dasa, Sookshma Dasa and Prana Dasa.* Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:12 PM A puzzling case of twins! Dear All, I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. The birth details are: DOB: Jan 28, 1980 POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is concerned? Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Mrs. Wendy,I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy. Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote: Dear Krishna, In such instances it's absolutely vital to have a correct T.O.B.. It's also necessary to have the precise date of the wedding and birth of the child... Only then can we determine the promise of an event from the actual fruition of that event. Taking a cursory look at the two charts and stabbing at a date in 2003 (say 25 Mar?), we find that the promised event could have been supported by pranadasa of Venus. Fo the younger twin this could have been blocked by the pranadasa of Mars. Of course I'm only stabbing at a date here, but in any case (whatever date it might be) we cannot ignore the influence of pranadasa... you can see more here: http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm Parashara says in BPHS Ch.63 http://jyotishvidya.com/ch63.htm *83. -The revered sage Parasara said--O Brahmin! here I have described to you the effects of Nakshatra (Vimsottari) Dasas etc. The good or adverse predictions should be made after assessing judiciously the auspiciousness and inauspiciousness of all the five, namely Dasa, Antardasa, Pratyantar Dasa, Sookshma Dasa and Prana Dasa.* Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:12 PM A puzzling case of twins! Dear All, I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. The birth details are: DOB: Jan 28, 1980 POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is concerned? Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Krishna, /// However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy./// Well that is a shame as it denies the opportunity to study the different influences in the lives of these twins. I would have liked the opportunity to consider the influence of the smaller dasas and the relative transits. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:21 PM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Mrs. Wendy, I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Mrs. Wendy,I got the info. through my cousin who mentioned to me that the father of the twins is keen on talking to me about the marriage prospects of their second son. Hopefully, I will be able to get the required data soon. Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote: Dear Krishna, /// However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy./// Well that is a shame as it denies the opportunity to study the different influences in the lives of these twins. I would have liked the opportunity to consider the influence of the smaller dasas and the relative transits. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:21 PM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Mrs. Wendy, I confirm that time of birth is based on horoscopes prepared by their astrologer. I have obtained a copy of the same. However, I don't have the date of marriage and the date of child birth of the elder boy. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Krishna ji, If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital if they were born in a hospital? If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful for studying the same. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > The birth details are: > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > concerned? > > Regards, > Krishna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash ji,I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I have to explore this further. Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. Regards,KrishnaOn Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: Dear Krishna ji, If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital if they were born in a hospital? If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful for studying the same. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear All, > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two minutes > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is married > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or a > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to the > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that they > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. Somehow, > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are into > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and I > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > The birth details are: > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > concerned? > > Regards, > Krishna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Krishna ji, I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath). Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house. With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or something else. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear Ash ji, > > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I > have to explore this further. > > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. > > Regards, > Krishna > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital > > if they were born in a hospital? > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a > > possibility of such things happening? > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful > > for studying the same. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two > > minutes > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is > > married > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or > > a > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to > > the > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that > > they > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. > > Somehow, > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are > > into > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and > > I > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > > > > > The birth details are: > > > > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > > > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > > > concerned? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash, ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.../// That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) have identical horoscopes. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ashsam73 " <kas <jyotish-vidya > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Krishna ji, If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital if they were born in a hospital? If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful for studying the same. Thanking you, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Wendy, Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one. Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all angles and make a sincere attempt. I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna, the solution would become simple? On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can control that. Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work around this. In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.../// > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) > have identical horoscopes. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ___ > > > - > " ashsam73 " <kas > <jyotish-vidya > > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM > Re: A puzzling case of twins! > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time > that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was > it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the > hospital if they were born in a hospital? > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. > That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. > So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the > birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something > like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? > So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario > exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working > and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ > difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it > will be helpful for studying the same. > > Thanking you, > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash, Perhaps I misread your post? I thought you meant that lagna would change for one of the twins (only). Far too late here, I'm afraid, so will go over it again tomorrow with a fresh mind. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ashsam73 " <kas <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:10 AM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Wendy, Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one. Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all angles and make a sincere attempt. I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna, the solution would become simple? On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can control that. Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work around this. In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then > at > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the > younger.../// > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) > have identical horoscopes. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Gaurav ji, Making a sincere attempt is in our hands with whatsoever little knowledge we all have and sharing the same. We all might come out more knowledgable and learn some new things from new and fresh perspective of other learned members. Krishna ji mentioned about his gut of studying Leo navamsa, which again changes by making the time a few minutes earlier, my making it 5 mins later the lagna changes. As things stand now, we 1) do not have a lot of data to work with 2) we did some prelim or high level study like navamsa changes / rasi changes etc. 3) Krishna ji said he will get back to us with more data when he has privy to it. 4) Wendy ji gave us her experience of her granson's twins experience. This is the basic ground work and churning of thoughts. Now we each have our own approach to the chart using the techniques we have learnt or have been taught or gained though practice. So when we get more data, we all can share our perspective keeping the main theme of Parasara on this list and working within the frame work and parameters as laid down by Wendyji. So after the through study, we can reach some conclusion or not, but one thing, we all will be wealther with more knowledge as Wendy ji, Krishna ji, yourself and I hope others too will contribute. You are absolutely correct, twins charts should be the take only after one has got a good and strong grip on the basics. There are alot of things that are still unknown, but atleast we can work with the things we know in the hope that with the collective knowledge we can try to being the understand the unknown. If this chart takes us one step close, i think its good learning. We may or may not be able to understand it all, but we sure well can give it our sincere attempt with whatever little we know. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear Ash & Mrs.Wendy, > It is one of the most of the difficult area, perhaps have been covered by many esteemed astrologers, scholars & amateurs, but could we really solve it out--the actual birth time? > It will remain to be a mystery till our death--sometimes we swear by the medical certificate that *This is my right time of birth*, but on what basis? > Now we may speak about watch, what about those days, when there was no watch, no ephimeris, no almanac---only calculations by looking at the sky? > Thank you, > Gaurav. > > jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Wendy, > > > > Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one. > > > > Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all angles and make a sincere attempt. > > > > I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna, the solution would become simple? > > > > On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can control that. > > > > Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work around this. > > > > In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > > > > > jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.../// > > > > > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from > > > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) > > > > > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and > > > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still > > > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) > > > have identical horoscopes. > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Mrs. Wendy > > > http://JyotishVidya.com > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > - > > > " ashsam73 " <kas@> > > > <jyotish-vidya > > > > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM > > > Re: A puzzling case of twins! > > > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time > > > that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was > > > it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the > > > hospital if they were born in a hospital? > > > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. > > > That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. > > > So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the > > > birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something > > > like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? > > > So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario > > > exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? > > > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working > > > and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ > > > difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it > > > will be helpful for studying the same. > > > > > > Thanking you, > > > Cheers !!! > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Wendy ji, Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email with a fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned members at the same time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might round ridicilous but then please be patient as not everyone is at the same level of understanding this shastra so please forgive me if certain things might sound obvious. I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji will share what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him. In the mean time, here are the possibilities which one can think off. Please feel free to add your thoughts or some scenario that i might have overlooked or missed. 1) Time is perfect and as given. 2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different. 3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin 4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra 5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or there is a chance that the watch might be wrong. 6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know if someone was sleepy when recording the time :-). We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at home? These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add or delete options. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > Perhaps I misread your post? I thought you meant that lagna would change > for one of the twins (only). Far too late here, I'm afraid, so will go > over it again tomorrow with a fresh mind. > > Best Wishes, > Mrs. Wendy > http://JyotishVidya.com > ___ > > > - > " ashsam73 " <kas > <jyotish-vidya > > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:10 AM > Re: A puzzling case of twins! > > > Dear Wendy, > > Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one. > > Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the > rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore > it from all angles and make a sincere attempt. > > I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the > lagna, the solution would become simple? > > On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, > however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " > nature and can control that. > > Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive > naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced > techniques to work around this. > > In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can > provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members. > > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then > > at > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the > > younger.../// > > > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from > > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) > > > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and > > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still > > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) > > have identical horoscopes. > > > > Best Wishes, > > Mrs. Wendy > > http://JyotishVidya.com > > ___ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Respected Gurujan, Having a case study about twins is such a rare event. Currently In this case we do not have much specifics etc., I was wondering if esteemed members could post some information about how to go about charting and judging charts of Twins. In this case we are unsure about the exact time and due to the deviation in their destinies we are theorizing their navamsa lagnas to be different. But it would great if the Seniors - could write up about how to chart birth data of twins - who are born say 2-3 minutes apart - without any " Watch error " - Add to this how to judge and read charts of twins, characteristics, tendencies, personalities - how to separate one from another at a specific level. In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and Narasimhaji had used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their personalities. Not sure if this is a gold standard for this purpose. If other members have any examples of birth data of twins - we can share it with the group - may be few life events will go a long way. I dont wish this thread to become a boring/long winding thread - but would hate to lose this golden opportunity to explore and learn about judging charts of twins. Thanks. Shrikanth jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas wrote: > > Dear Krishna ji, > > I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath). > > Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house. > > With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or something else. > > Thanks, > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > Dear Ash ji, > > > > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their > > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha > > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I > > have to explore this further. > > > > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you > > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or > > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. > > > > Regards, > > Krishna > > > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that > > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when > > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital > > > if they were born in a hospital? > > > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 > > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would > > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the > > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of > > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or > > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you > > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a > > > possibility of such things happening? > > > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and > > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference > > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful > > > for studying the same. > > > > > > Thanking you, > > > Cheers !!! > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > > > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two > > > minutes > > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is > > > married > > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or > > > a > > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to > > > the > > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that > > > they > > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. > > > Somehow, > > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are > > > into > > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and > > > I > > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > > > > > > > The birth details are: > > > > > > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > > > > > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > > > > concerned? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Krishna ji, Here is my attempt with Leo lagna. It does make sense. Calculation is as follows. For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its moderated by Guru. Whereas for Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam, there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin. For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due to Sa in 7h house. Calculation for delay for elder twin. Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord and 2nd lord in navamsa. This causes full delay. Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay. Guru is eager to give marriage being lord of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th). Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is Leo. Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore delay is about 24 years. So marriage can happen after that. Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts. Calculation for delay of younger twin. Here in this case, lagna is vargottam. Delay caused by Saturn remains same as Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa. So there is delay due to Saturn. This is again moderated by Guru who aspects Sa. However with lagna becoming vargottam, the house repeat in rasi and navamsa so here its special. Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord. This might cause Guru to give delay as well. Again there is 1 zero in Rasi due to Saturn in 7th house. So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows. Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder twin. So that is about 24 years as Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru. Now Guru is causing delay and both FK and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak. So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3 aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house. So at the age of 24, Guru will be over natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house. So delay will go upto 28 years or there abouts. So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very end. So we can skip the antra also Venus is in 6th house. After that now he is running the antra of Sun. Sun is powerful but its antra is running till Sun 2008-Aug-03 2009-May-22 Sun’s antra is powerful but Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha is in 6th house so thereby its affected. Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful to give result of marriage. Moon 2009-May-22 2010-Sep-21 So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the delays are fitting. The above procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts. Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy life. He will not oppose anyone on the face, and does not have fixed thoughts. His mind is also more wavering. Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk. The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive. The older one is more firm in thoughts as compared to the younger one. The older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more easily as compared to the younger one. Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji. If you can confirm these points above, it will be good learning for me. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ] On Behalf Of ashsam73 Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58 PM jyotish-vidya Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Krishna ji, I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath). Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house. With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or something else. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear Ash ji, > > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I > have to explore this further. > > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. > > Regards, > Krishna > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital > > if they were born in a hospital? > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a > > possibility of such things happening? > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful > > for studying the same. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two > > minutes > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is > > married > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or > > a > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to > > the > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that > > they > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. > > Somehow, > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are > > into > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and > > I > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > > > > > The birth details are: > > > > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > > > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > > > concerned? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash, //1) Time is perfect and as given.// Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise. //2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different.// I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from the womb (capable of individual life). //3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin// Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this. //4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra// Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely. I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in more general terms. As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother (elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ashsam73 " <kas <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:56 AM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Wendy ji, Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email with a fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned members at the same time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might round ridicilous but then please be patient as not everyone is at the same level of understanding this shastra so please forgive me if certain things might sound obvious. I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji will share what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him. In the mean time, here are the possibilities which one can think off. Please feel free to add your thoughts or some scenario that i might have overlooked or missed. 1) Time is perfect and as given. 2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different. 3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin 4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra 5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or there is a chance that the watch might be wrong. 6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know if someone was sleepy when recording the time :-). We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at home? These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add or delete options. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Wendy, You wrote ////4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra// Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely.// Ash : Is there any particular reason as to why you think in India and in a smaller town this is not possible? Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Wendy, When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and what factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for the younger twin? What is the difference that has caused the delay between these twins? Please share your opinion as well on how you solve or approach the chart and what factors you use and the calculation for calculating delay w.r.t marriage in this case. The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems from your post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who are twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have used dasha and transits to calculate the delay. If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ] On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy Tuesday April 28, 2009 11:41 PM jyotish-vidya Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Ash, //1) Time is perfect and as given.// Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise. //2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different.// I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from the womb (capable of individual life). //3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin// Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this. //4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra// Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely. I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in more general terms. As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother (elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " ashsam73 " <kas <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:56 AM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Wendy ji, Yes, infact I did mean that as a possibility. Yes, please read my email with a fresh perspective. I am here to learn from all the learned members at the same time share my thoughts as well. Sometimes they might round ridicilous but then please be patient as not everyone is at the same level of understanding this shastra so please forgive me if certain things might sound obvious. I was trying to see the time given from different angles. Krishna ji will share what he finds out when the natives father comes to see him. In the mean time, here are the possibilities which one can think off. Please feel free to add your thoughts or some scenario that i might have overlooked or missed. 1) Time is perfect and as given. 2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different. 3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin 4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra 5) The birth time might be approximate or rectified by some astrologer or there is a chance that the watch might be wrong. 6) The birth time might have a very large difference and it might be approximate. The birth time is very close to midnight so we do not know if someone was sleepy when recording the time :-). We do not know if the delivery took place in the hospital or it was at home? These are the possibilities i could think off. Please feel free to add or delete options. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash, ///When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and what factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for the younger twin?/// Neither twin is married...this is considered normal and quite acceptable in this hedonistic 21st century, I'm afraid :-( ///The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems from your post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who are twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have used dasha and transits to calculate the delay./// Yes, you are mistaken Ash... Dasas/transits (as per Parashara) are used for the timing and fructifying of events. ///If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts./// By all means, I've actually (just now) included the birth data under their photo http://jyotishvidya.com/twins.htm for the benefit of those who want to take a look. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Ash's Corner " <kas <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:03 PM RE: Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Wendy, When you get a chance, can you also give the calculation of Delay and what factors do you think have contributed in causing delay of marriage for the younger twin? What is the difference that has caused the delay between these twins? Please share your opinion as well on how you solve or approach the chart and what factors you use and the calculation for calculating delay w.r.t marriage in this case. The way I use Dasha and Transits is for timing of events, it seems from your post that you are using it as a means to calculate delay (unless I am mistaken) as you have written that in the case of your grandchildren who are twins, one has a child and the other does not and it seems that you have used dasha and transits to calculate the delay. If you do not mind, can we take up the chart of your grandchildren after this chart is over. That way, we can get to solve two twin charts. Cheers !!! Ash -> <http://www.ashtro.ca/> http://www.ashtro.ca ==================================== jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ] On Behalf Of Mrs. Wendy Tuesday April 28, 2009 11:41 PM jyotish-vidya Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Ash, //1) Time is perfect and as given.// Of course we have to assume this until we hear otherwise. //2) There is a possibility of difference in time. The first cry times might be different.// I do believe that a child is born as soon as it has been delivered from the womb (capable of individual life). //3) With few mins earlier, navamsa will change to Leo for one twin// Well we will have to wait for confirmation of this. //4) With few mins ahead i.e. 5 or so, the Lagna will change and that opens up three possibility a) one twin is libra lagna and other is virgo b) both twins are virgo c) both twins are libra// Five minutes is a huge discrepancy which I don't think very likely. I have given my reasons for the differences between people (not only twins) with seemingly identical horoscopes in the article I wrote several years ago. I have had to change the wording slightly as some of it was based on the dasas/transits as they were at the time of writing. To the best of my knowledge that was approx. 2/3 yrs ago but I really can't remember exactly when that was now, so have had to word (some of it) in more general terms. As I said earlier, my twin granddaughter has a son whilst her brother (elder by 4 mins) is childless. I would like to point out here that not only can we see differences in the dasas/transits when the child was born, we would also see similar differences at the time of conception. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Ash ji,That is very kind of you to provide detailed calculations and analysis based on my assumption. In fact, it was not a blind assumption! That is an outcome of applying my BTR technique. I got the time as 23:13:56 for the first and 23:20:23 for the second. Regarding the possibility of the recording errors, I guess that the doctor may not have had the presence of mind to note down the time of birth for the first baby as he/she had the job of clearing the second one. He/she might have noted down the time for the second and might have deducted a couple of minutes for the first. I know this is only speculation, but seems to have high probability. One thing is for sure that the birth has taken place in the hospital and not at home. In our community, I have not heard anyone going for home delivery since ages. Knowing this family, I can vouch this for sure. But, sure I will find out the truth from the father. In my own perspective, if one goes by navamsha chart, for Leo lagna, 7L Saturn is in the 6H, but Jupiter is blessing the lagna and Venus in the 9th supporting dharma. For Virgo navamsha lagna, 7L Jupiter is in the 12th from lagna and Venus is also in a dusthana, indicating additional delays for the second one. I have to go out for some urgent work now. I will come back and write more...Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Ash's Corner <kas wrote: Dear Krishna ji, Here is my attempt with Leo lagna. It does make sense. Calculation is as follows. For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its moderated by Guru. Whereas for Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam, there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin. For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due to Sa in 7h house. Calculation for delay for elder twin. Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord and 2nd lord in navamsa. This causes full delay. Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay. Guru is eager to give marriage being lord of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th). Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is Leo. Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore delay is about 24 years. So marriage can happen after that. Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts. Calculation for delay of younger twin. Here in this case, lagna is vargottam. Delay caused by Saturn remains same as Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa. So there is delay due to Saturn. This is again moderated by Guru who aspects Sa. However with lagna becoming vargottam, the house repeat in rasi and navamsa so here its special. Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord. This might cause Guru to give delay as well. Again there is 1 zero in Rasi due to Saturn in 7th house. So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows. Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder twin. So that is about 24 years as Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru. Now Guru is causing delay and both FK and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak. So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3 aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house. So at the age of 24, Guru will be over natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house. So delay will go upto 28 years or there abouts. So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very end. So we can skip the antra also Venus is in 6th house. After that now he is running the antra of Sun. Sun is powerful but its antra is running till Sun 2008-Aug-03 2009-May-22 Sun’s antra is powerful but Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha is in 6th house so thereby its affected. Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful to give result of marriage. Moon 2009-May-22 2010-Sep-21 So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the delays are fitting. The above procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts. Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy life. He will not oppose anyone on the face, and does not have fixed thoughts. His mind is also more wavering. Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk. The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive. The older one is more firm in thoughts as compared to the younger one. The older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more easily as compared to the younger one. Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji. If you can confirm these points above, it will be good learning for me. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ] On Behalf Of ashsam73 Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58 PM jyotish-vidya Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Krishna ji, I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath). Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house. With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or something else. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear Ash ji, > > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I > have to explore this further. > > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. > > Regards, > Krishna > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital > > if they were born in a hospital? > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a > > possibility of such things happening? > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful > > for studying the same. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two > > minutes > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is > > married > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or > > a > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to > > the > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that > > they > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. > > Somehow, > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are > > into > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and > > I > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > > > > > The birth details are: > > > > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > > > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > > > concerned? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Dear Krishna, If I might be permitted, I'd like to make a comment here... ///What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord?/// Lotus birthing, an ancient tradition, is practised by many today...see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Birth So that's one assumption (cutting of umbilical cord) that we can put to rest. This topic BTW was discussed at length some years back if my memory serves me...long-term members might recall this :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:43 AM Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Ash ji, I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I have to explore this further. Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Dear Mrs. Wendy,Yes, I have gone through this article earlier and have reached the same conclusion as you have. In fact, I believe that the birth takes place when the head of the baby comes into the open. I hope I will have some supporting data to justify this soon. Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Mrs. Wendy <jyotishvidya wrote: Dear Krishna, If I might be permitted, I'd like to make a comment here... ///What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord?/// Lotus birthing, an ancient tradition, is practised by many today...see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Birth So that's one assumption (cutting of umbilical cord) that we can put to rest. This topic BTW was discussed at length some years back if my memory serves me...long-term members might recall this :-) Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Krishnamurthy Seetharama " <kmurthys58 <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:43 AM Re: Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Ash ji, I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I have to explore this further. Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. Regards, Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Dear Shrikanth, ///In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and Narasimhaji had used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their personalities. Not sure if this is a gold standard for this purpose./// Narasimha Rao has his own ideas/methodology which are (generally) not in accord with JV. So, I hope you won't mind if we don't base our discussions on his writings. Best Wishes, Mrs. Wendy http://JyotishVidya.com ___ - " Shrikanth Gopalan " <vgshrikanth <jyotish-vidya > Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:28 AM Re: A puzzling case of twins! Respected Gurujan, Having a case study about twins is such a rare event. Currently In this case we do not have much specifics etc., I was wondering if esteemed members could post some information about how to go about charting and judging charts of Twins. In this case we are unsure about the exact time and due to the deviation in their destinies we are theorizing their navamsa lagnas to be different. But it would great if the Seniors - could write up about how to chart birth data of twins - who are born say 2-3 minutes apart - without any " Watch error " - Add to this how to judge and read charts of twins, characteristics, tendencies, personalities - how to separate one from another at a specific level. In PVR Narasimhaji's Book - there is an example about twins and Narasimhaji had used the D27 Nakshatramsa to separate their personalities. Not sure if this is a gold standard for this purpose. If other members have any examples of birth data of twins - we can share it with the group - may be few life events will go a long way. I dont wish this thread to become a boring/long winding thread - but would hate to lose this golden opportunity to explore and learn about judging charts of twins. Thanks. Shrikanth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Dear Ash ji,I was looking at your analysis. You have indicated that Moon AD could be the probable period. However, I notice that Moon is conjunct Ketu in Navamsha. According to my understanding Ketu prevents marriage during Moon's AD. Do you consider this Ketu factor or not? Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: Dear Ash ji,That is very kind of you to provide detailed calculations and analysis based on my assumption. In fact, it was not a blind assumption! That is an outcome of applying my BTR technique. I got the time as 23:13:56 for the first and 23:20:23 for the second. Regarding the possibility of the recording errors, I guess that the doctor may not have had the presence of mind to note down the time of birth for the first baby as he/she had the job of clearing the second one. He/she might have noted down the time for the second and might have deducted a couple of minutes for the first. I know this is only speculation, but seems to have high probability. One thing is for sure that the birth has taken place in the hospital and not at home. In our community, I have not heard anyone going for home delivery since ages. Knowing this family, I can vouch this for sure. But, sure I will find out the truth from the father. In my own perspective, if one goes by navamsha chart, for Leo lagna, 7L Saturn is in the 6H, but Jupiter is blessing the lagna and Venus in the 9th supporting dharma. For Virgo navamsha lagna, 7L Jupiter is in the 12th from lagna and Venus is also in a dusthana, indicating additional delays for the second one. I have to go out for some urgent work now. I will come back and write more...Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 8:30 AM, Ash's Corner <kas wrote: Dear Krishna ji, Here is my attempt with Leo lagna. It does make sense. Calculation is as follows. For Leo lagna, there is only delay due to Saturn and its moderated by Guru. Whereas for Virgo lagna which has Virgo navamsa i.e. vargottam, there is delay caused by Saturn which is moderated by Guru as well as Guru is causing additional delay which is not so for the elder twin. For both case there is 1 zero in SAV due to Sa in 7h house. Calculation for delay for elder twin. Sa is aspecting 7th house, 11th lord and 2nd lord in navamsa. This causes full delay. Guru is in Leo which aspects Sa, so this is moderating the delay. Guru is eager to give marriage being lord of 4th house being placed in 12th house (lord of upchay from 7th being placed in second upchay house from 7th). Guru aspects Venus which is 2nd lord but here it won’t cause delay due to the fact that navamsa lagna is Leo. Sa is at 3 degrees therefore regular delay , so delay is about 27 years, its moderated and assuming marriage is 21 for male, therefore delay is about 24 years. So marriage can happen after that. Mercury antra run so sun’s transit in sign/nak of Sun and Guru is powerful to give marriage i.e. Jan 2004 or there abouts. Calculation for delay of younger twin. Here in this case, lagna is vargottam. Delay caused by Saturn remains same as Sa aspects 7th house in Rasi, 11th lord Moon in Rasi and Venus who is 2nd lord in navamsa. So there is delay due to Saturn. This is again moderated by Guru who aspects Sa. However with lagna becoming vargottam, the house repeat in rasi and navamsa so here its special. Guru is 7th lord in both Rasi and Navamsa and Guru aspects Venus in both Rasi and Navamsa who is 2nd lord. This might cause Guru to give delay as well. Again there is 1 zero in Rasi due to Saturn in 7th house. So the calculation for the younger twin is as follows. Delay caused due to Saturn is same as for the elder twin. So that is about 24 years as Sa is at 3 deg in Rasi and moderated by Guru. Now Guru is causing delay and both FK and NK, Venus is in 6th house and Venus is also Moolkarak. So Jupiter will have to make atleast 3 aspects in transit to 7th lord or 7th house. So at the age of 24, Guru will be over natal Guru and then the first aspect to 7th house will happen when it enters 1st house and then 2nd aspect to 7th house will happen when Ju comes to Sco and then 3rd aspect will happen when Guru will enter 4th house and from there it will aspect 7th lord Guru placed in 12th house. So delay will go upto 28 years or there abouts. So that time Venus antra is running and its towards the very end. So we can skip the antra also Venus is in 6th house. After that now he is running the antra of Sun. Sun is powerful but its antra is running till Sun 2008-Aug-03 2009-May-22 Sun’s antra is powerful but Sun is again in navamsa of Taurus so Karakansha is in 6th house so thereby its affected. Moon antra is next and Moon is powerful to give result of marriage. Moon 2009-May-22 2010-Sep-21 So, after studying this in detail w.r.t timing of events, the delays are fitting. The above procedure I have used is repeatable in all charts. Regarding the nature of the younger twin, the younger twin is intelligent, can pick things up very fast, has street smarts, and like to enjoy life. He will not oppose anyone on the face, and does not have fixed thoughts. His mind is also more wavering. Regarding the nature of the elder twin, with leo navamsa, has more of a leadership quality as compared to the younger twin, and is more daring nature and can take more risk. The younger one is more diplomatic and will speak more convincingly whereas the speech of the older one will be more assertive. The older one is more firm in thoughts as compared to the younger one. The older one might have a more fragile ego or might be prone to get offended more easily as compared to the younger one. Thanks for giving this chart Krishna ji. If you can confirm these points above, it will be good learning for me. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya [jyotish-vidya ] On Behalf Of ashsam73 Tuesday April 28, 2009 12:58 PM jyotish-vidya Re: A puzzling case of twins! Dear Krishna ji, I consider the time of the first cry as the birth time (first cry would indicate the first breath and death would be considred as the last breath). Regarding the chart its quite possible, I haven't checked with Leo navamsa, but once we know the birth time and other finer differences between the two, we will be able to study these charts further. If I get a chance this evening, I will try to also look at Leo Navamsa as per what you have said and try to work out the delay calculation. With Sa in 5th house definitely indicates delay and that is the standard law and with libra lagna Guru would become the 6th lord with more than 4 bindus in 11th house. With libra lagna and with the data u have given now, both are showing vargottam lagna, libra as well as with virgo. From what you have told me (and I read your mail the second time, first time was in haste) was that you did mention that both are doing their fathers business. However, if you can find out what both the boys are doing i.e say one might be handling accounting and the other can be with marketing or say production or something like that, then that would also indicate the difference in profession. Also during their school years, what was their inclination towards? it can be that one took commerce and other science or arts or one might be more clever than the other or one can be an exceptional good student and the other an average student but exception in say arts or something else. Thanks, Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58 wrote: > > Dear Ash ji, > > I will try to get as many details as possible when I get a chance to their > father. My gut feel is that the elder one might be having Leo navamsha > lagna, with birth time around 23:14. It is just an initial assumption, I > have to explore this further. > > Also, what is your personal take on the event of 'birth'. What do you > consider to be THE event? Is it the head coming out, or the first cry or > cutting the umbilical cord? Would like to hear your opinion on this matter. > > Regards, > Krishna > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time that > > is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was it when > > the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the hospital > > if they were born in a hospital? > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at 23:26 > > the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. That would > > also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. So if the > > scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the birth of > > elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something like that or > > if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? So maybe if you > > can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario exist or is there a > > possibility of such things happening? > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working and > > the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ difference > > and some significant events if you can get those as well, it will be helpful > > for studying the same. > > > > Thanking you, > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > jyotish-vidya <jyotish-vidya%40>, > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama <kmurthys58@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I have come across a puzzling case of twins. They are born about two > > minutes > > > apart. Their Navamsha lagna is also same. However, the elder boy is > > married > > > since about 5-6 years and has a daughter. The younger boy is yet get > > > married. Initially, parents wanted to conduct their marriage together (or > > a > > > few days/ months apart if not feasible). However, they had to give-in to > > the > > > pressure from the girl's side and conducted the marriage of the elder son > > > even before the match was finalized for the younger one thinking that > > they > > > will be able to get a match for the younger one too pretty quickly. > > Somehow, > > > they are not able to find the match for the second son. Both boys are > > into > > > family business working with their father. They are well to do. Both boys > > > look very similar. I have only seen them from a distance at a wedding and > > I > > > have not spoken to them. But, I don't know if they are identical or > > > fraternal twins. I guess they are not idenical looking at their chart. > > > > > > The birth details are: > > > > > > DOB: Jan 28, 1980 > > > POB: Tumkur (77E06, 13N20) > > > TOB: elder twin - 23:18, Younger twin - 23:20 > > > > > > What is the reason for such big difference as far as their marriage is > > > concerned? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Dear Ash ji,I agree with each sentence you have written here. I couldn't agree more when you say: " There are a lot of things that are still unknown, but at least we can work with the things we know in the hope that with the collective knowledge we can try to being the understand the unknown. If this chart takes us one step close, i think its good learning. " In fact, precisely for the same reason I posted this chart to the list.Regards,KrishnaOn Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:04 AM, ashsam73 <kas wrote: Dear Gaurav ji, Making a sincere attempt is in our hands with whatsoever little knowledge we all have and sharing the same. We all might come out more knowledgable and learn some new things from new and fresh perspective of other learned members. Krishna ji mentioned about his gut of studying Leo navamsa, which again changes by making the time a few minutes earlier, my making it 5 mins later the lagna changes. As things stand now, we 1) do not have a lot of data to work with 2) we did some prelim or high level study like navamsa changes / rasi changes etc. 3) Krishna ji said he will get back to us with more data when he has privy to it. 4) Wendy ji gave us her experience of her granson's twins experience. This is the basic ground work and churning of thoughts. Now we each have our own approach to the chart using the techniques we have learnt or have been taught or gained though practice. So when we get more data, we all can share our perspective keeping the main theme of Parasara on this list and working within the frame work and parameters as laid down by Wendyji. So after the through study, we can reach some conclusion or not, but one thing, we all will be wealther with more knowledge as Wendy ji, Krishna ji, yourself and I hope others too will contribute. You are absolutely correct, twins charts should be the take only after one has got a good and strong grip on the basics. There are alot of things that are still unknown, but atleast we can work with the things we know in the hope that with the collective knowledge we can try to being the understand the unknown. If this chart takes us one step close, i think its good learning. We may or may not be able to understand it all, but we sure well can give it our sincere attempt with whatever little we know. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca jyotish-vidya , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear Ash & Mrs.Wendy, > It is one of the most of the difficult area, perhaps have been covered by many esteemed astrologers, scholars & amateurs, but could we really solve it out--the actual birth time? > It will remain to be a mystery till our death--sometimes we swear by the medical certificate that *This is my right time of birth*, but on what basis? > Now we may speak about watch, what about those days, when there was no watch, no ephimeris, no almanac---only calculations by looking at the sky? > Thank you, > Gaurav. > > jyotish-vidya , " ashsam73 " <kas@> wrote: > > > > Dear Wendy, > > > > Yes, its not the question of a simple solution or a difficult one. > > > > Its the question of birth time. In this case, with 5 mins difference the rasi changes. If one wants to take up such charts then, we must explore it from all angles and make a sincere attempt. > > > > I am curious to understand, what makes you say that just by changing the lagna, the solution would become simple? > > > > On another note, a good period might be running in both the charts, however, by taking birth control measures, one can have a " workaround " nature and can control that. > > > > Same way for childless couples for who, its not possible to conceive naturally, now with medical advancement can have IVF or other advanced techniques to work around this. > > > > In any case, you might know about you grand childen best and you can provide the reasons and it will be good learning for all list members. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > > > > > jyotish-vidya , " Mrs. Wendy " <jyotishvidya@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > > > ///If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger.../// > > > > > > That would certainly be the most simple solution and would save us from > > > having to look too deeply into the dasas/transits :-) > > > > > > However, in the case of my own twin grandchildren (identical rasi and > > > navamsha), one has a son (born 5 Nov 2005) whilst the other is still > > > childless... This disparity is often found with twins who (seemingly) > > > have identical horoscopes. > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Mrs. Wendy > > > http://JyotishVidya.com > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > - > > > " ashsam73 " <kas@> > > > <jyotish-vidya > > > > Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:35 PM > > > Re: A puzzling case of twins! > > > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > > > If you also get a chance, can you also get the details behind the time > > > that is recorded i.e. was the time recorded when the head came out or was > > > it when the umbinical cord was cut or was it the first cry. > > > > > > Also is there a chance if there could be some slight change in time i.e. > > > say if the watch was 5 mins ahead or some error on the clock of the > > > hospital if they were born in a hospital? > > > > > > If there is a possibility that the watch might be a bit ahead then at > > > 23:26 the lagna changes to Libra and say if the time of the younger. > > > That would also place Sa in the 5th house in Navamsa indicating delay. > > > So if the scenario were that if the watch was about 6 mins ahead then the > > > birth of elder might be 23:25 and the elder might be 23:27 or something > > > like that or if the moment of first cry might be more than 2 mins apart? > > > So maybe if you can get / ask the native's father, could such a scenario > > > exist or is there a possibility of such things happening? > > > > > > If also finer things like their occupation, likes in taste in food, their > > > inteligence, some distinguishing habbits, like one can be hard working > > > and the other might like to enjoy luxuries or take it easy, their IQ > > > difference and some significant events if you can get those as well, it > > > will be helpful for studying the same. > > > > > > Thanking you, > > > Cheers !!! > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.