Upayagers or Astrologers ?

June 1, 2009

Dear Members,The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is correctly calculated or not.As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never have given such a strong statement.My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves. But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last horoscope he did.There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future, normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed to guard against.No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only Upayas, however relevant they may be.I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal Kitab astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?Best regards,Finn Wandahl

June 1, 2009

Dear Finn,Thanks for starting such a wonderful discussion. It has become a common practice for many astrologers to give remedies rather than predictions.Some astrologers even dont bother to check the accuracy or the horoscope. I think many astrologers

indulge in such malpractice they recommend remedies because its easy to make money fromgemstones, remedies, pooja anushtans etc rather from predictions.Some pundit like astrologers they just spit out sanskrit verses and take their clients for a ride.

Its the moral duty of an astrologer to give the timing of events in a natives chart when asked, atleast this will confirmwether the astrologer is genuine or not, there is no use if the predictions go wrong.If we believe in astrology, plantery effects on the natives life then an event it bound to happen and one must focus on correct

timing of such events.As you rightly said many of the astrologers are turning into upayagars.Regards,GautamOn Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl wrote:

Dear Members,The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is correctly calculated or not.

As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never have given such a strong statement.

My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves. But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last horoscope he did.

There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future, normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed to guard against.

No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only Upayas, however relevant they may be.

I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal Kitab astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?

Best regards,Finn Wandahl

June 2, 2009

Sir, to check and verify the nature of planets corresponding to past

events and present/prevailing conditions like vaastu, physique, palm,

status of and with different relatives and to suggest remedies to the

native to enhance positive planatary influence and minimise negative

influence to take benefit of doubt is one thing. To predict future is

totally different aspect. Lalkitab places a certain degree of command

in native's hands which he may use either way. So how is it possible

to predict future with certainity. Also e.g. In case of Combined

destiny of father-son. Or like in some cases like the one discussed in

the last part of 1952 edition the birth of the son brought a windfall

gains in the father's life. How can u predict when the son is still

not born. Another e.g. is the case of copper mixed gold bangles which

were cut and resulted in misfortune. Lalkitab in its introduction says

that the purpose of the book is to nullify hinderances in results

promised by stars and provide some sort of protective gear against

possible calamities. Only major events can be foretoled that too which

are of the capacity to be written with INK OF BLOOD. Lalkitab emphasis

that Astrology is the study of planatary TENDENCIES. when tendency is

not certain how can the predictions be pin point? Regards. Kulbir.

On 6/2/09, Finn Wandahl <finn.wandahl wrote:

> Dear Members,

>

> The discussion going on at the moment is very interesting to follow. The

> importance of Tewa Darusthi is being emphasized, which is always very

> good, since Lal Kitab is an Ascendant-based kind of astrology. I have

> been able to notice bad examples of Lal Kitab astrologers giving out

> Upayas to people without doing any kind of Tewa Darusthi. This means

> these ignorant astrologers cannot possibly be sure if the chart is

> correctly calculated or not.

>

> As a matter of fact this is not the first time a problem like this have

> been seen in India. Around the 7th century AD the great

> astronomer/astrologer Varaha Mihira wrote that a miscalculation of an

> astrologer is as sinful as the murder of a Brahmin. Actually, I think

> this proves that there was astrologers who was indiscriminately using

> wrong chart even at the time of Varaha Mihira. Otherwise he would never

> have given such a strong statement.

>

> My personal opinion is that any astrologer who is using an

> Ascendant-based kind of astrology without verifying whether or not the

> Ascendant is correct is nothing but a big charlatan. However, this goes

> on every day and it surely gives a bad name to Lal Kitab, when the

> charlatans belong to this category of astrologers. Anyway, there is not

> so much we can do about this problem, except to do our very best when

> we, who are supposed to be the good guys, do the horoscopes ourselves.

> But are we really doing our best, or are some of us perhaps getting a

> little lazy? This is actually a very important question. Since - after

> all - no astrologer, however big or famous, is any better than the last

> horoscope he did.

>

> There is a certain critizism about Lal Kitab astrologers that I have

> often among the other kinds of Hindu astrologers and even among some few

> western astrologers as well. They say, when you consult a Lal Kitab

> astrologer, he will ask you a number of highly relevant questions about

> your life, which clearly confirms the correctness of your chart, and he

> would even pin-point at certain events going on in certain years of the

> past. He may even say thing about the present situations, being

> precisely correct. But when it comes to the future, he either can or

> will not give any predictions at all, but rather gives a large number of

> Upayas (remedies) to guard agains any bad elements in the near future,

> normally without even telling what malefic event the remedy is supposed

> to guard against.

>

> No doubt a lot of relevant things are being said during an Lal Kitab

> consultation. I mean say, if Saturn is malefic in the 6th in the

> Varshphal we would caution against buying new leather shoes in that

> year. This is in my opinion a good and sound piece of astrological

> advice. And we have a lot of relevant information like that to share

> with our clients. But given the knowledge about the past and present

> that we present to the client, isn't it only natural that he/she also

> expect something like that to be said about the future? And not only

> Upayas, however relevant they may be.

>

> I think there is some element of truth is this critizism against Lal

> Kitab astrologers. If I am right then we need to ask ourselves some

> questions: Are we becoming so arrogant against astrology that we no

> longer care about giving predictions about the future? Did Pt. Roop

> Chand Joshi ever say anything against giving predictions about the

> future? (Except of course that predictions should be given with due

> caution and all the necessary ethical consideration, etc. etc.). Are we

> somehow forgetting what it means to be astrologers? Are we developing

> into Upayagers rather then Astrologers?

>

> Best regards,

> Finn Wandahl

>

--

Sent from my mobile device

June 2, 2009

I usually practice KP system of astrology, I have been able to make many successful predictions both on horary and natal chart.This year in delhi a Nakshatra exhibition was held, out of curiousity i went to a stall which

was dedicated to lal kitab books, the author was present there. I too bought couple of books, i asked him how to make predictions using lal kitab he said thatpredictions cannot be made from lal kitab, its main use is to neutralise the bad planetary effects.

Gautam.On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45 AM, kulbir bance <kulbirbance wrote: