Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Om Gurave Namah Dear Visti, Namaste. Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking. Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly feasible. So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct myself. 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, without any benefic intervention, is the classic " asatyavaadi yoga " ... (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in Almora. The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else can cause mistakes like the nodes. Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in 10H for this to happen:--)) Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the 12th month after conception. As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the term " Satya ParaakramaH " to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great devotion to Truth. If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) Regards, Lakshmi sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following sunrise, comes > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this the > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat was born > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a maximum > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40 hours > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed of 10 > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. Even if > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17 degrees > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using the > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to Pisces (8 > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in Pushya nakshatra. > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours after is > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra with > Pisces lagna. > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman and > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had Moon in > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during Rama's > birth to begin with. > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as nice > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's chart > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the Sun. > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from the Sun. > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major karma as > this is the abhijit rasi. > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and receives > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the Sun and > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha which > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? Dasaratha > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another father. > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga (second > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of Ayodhya. > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the tenth > giving political power which is required for kings and politicians alike. > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars would surely > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to avoid in > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is the > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > <http://srigaruda.com> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > Namaste. > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is indeed > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born at > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born on > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation in > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and Lakshmana > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had checked and > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & sattwik > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is conjunct > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in Martian > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any benefic > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more fiery and > > aggressive. > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it further. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40>, > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than starting > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are said to > > be > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from Ramas > > birth. > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu nakshatra, it > > means > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu until > > the > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. this is > > the > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of Pisces > > lagna. > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 degrees > > in 24 > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore after the > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > traversed > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya nakshatra. > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra is > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > -- > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga elements). > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, Pushya as the > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of Lakshmana and > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and others > > are > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice is to > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna > > nakshatra > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in > > certain > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra as the > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he would have > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying " born on Navami in > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra " . He did not even indicate clearly that Sun > > is in > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries and > > hence > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence conclude that > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be at the > > end > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn and > > nodes > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------------------- > > > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > Spirituality: > > <> > > > > < > > <>> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40> > > <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu during > > > > Sukla > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas of > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger between > > Moon > > > > and > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more information on > > this. > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha nakshatra > > in > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- nakshatra > > > > being > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in > > Cancer in > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore stronger than > > the > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day the > > Moon > > > > had > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which Lakshman was > > born. > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during that time > > > > from > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya during Sri > > > > Rama's > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few > > > > days. I > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18- 8 > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18- 10 > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1- > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > completion; > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; > > tataH= > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike > > > > tithau= > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > daivatye= > > > > star > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu > > > > graheSu > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH > > > > indunaa > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along > > with; > > > > pra > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime � > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > lakshana > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= Vishnu's; > > > > artham= > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly > > blessed > > > > one; > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita > > aksham= > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > > > > roseate, > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; > > putram= > > > > the > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury > > > > could > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that there > > are > > > > five > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and > > Saturn. > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the > > other > > > > three > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in > > cancer > > > > on a > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be more > > than > > > > 108 > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. > > > > Thus, > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, > > pisces > > > > or > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after > > > > hearing > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Lakshmi bahen, You wrote: >...Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, >with moon in lagna, >lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) What are the combination of a Shiva Avataar? Thakur might be a combined avataar if we apply a logic. His father got the realisation from Vishnu temple in Gaya and mother actually saw a pool of light entering her body from a small shiva shrine. Hence the birth story of Thakur actually provides a 'antidote' for the people who always try to belittle either Lord Vishnu or lord Shiva. It is an eye opener which proves that Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva are not different. sorry for deviating from the main topic. Warm Regards Utpal sohamsa , " b_lakshmi_ramesh " <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Visti, > > Namaste. > > Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking. > > Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly > feasible. > > So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct > myself. > > > 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, > without any benefic intervention, is the classic " asatyavaadi yoga " ... > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. > > Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna > Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. > > Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in > Almora. > > The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else > can cause mistakes like the nodes. > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in > 10H for this to happen:--)) > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the > 12th month after conception. > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the > term " Satya ParaakramaH " to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great > devotion to Truth. > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following sunrise, > comes > > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this the > > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat was > born > > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a > maximum > > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40 > hours > > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed of > 10 > > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. Even > if > > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17 > degrees > > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using the > > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to Pisces > (8 > > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in Pushya > nakshatra. > > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours > after is > > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra > with > > Pisces lagna. > > > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman > and > > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had Moon > in > > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during > Rama's > > birth to begin with. > > > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as nice > > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more > > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's > chart > > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the Sun. > > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from the > Sun. > > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major karma > as > > this is the abhijit rasi. > > > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and > receives > > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the Sun > and > > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha which > > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? > Dasaratha > > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another > father. > > > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga > (second > > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of > Ayodhya. > > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the tenth > > giving political power which is required for kings and politicians > alike. > > > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars would > surely > > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to avoid > in > > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is the > > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > -- > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is > indeed > > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born at > > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born on > > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation in > > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and > Lakshmana > > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had checked > and > > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & > sattwik > > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such > > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is > conjunct > > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in > Martian > > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any benefic > > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more fiery > and > > > aggressive. > > > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The > > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it further. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > 40>, > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than starting > > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are > said to > > > be > > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from Ramas > > > birth. > > > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu nakshatra, it > > > means > > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu > until > > > the > > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. this is > > > the > > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of > Pisces > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 > degrees > > > in 24 > > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore after > the > > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > > traversed > > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya nakshatra. > > > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra is > > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga > elements). > > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, Pushya > as the > > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of > Lakshmana and > > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and > others > > > are > > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice is > to > > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna > > > nakshatra > > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in > > > certain > > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra as > the > > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he would > have > > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying " born on > Navami in > > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra " . He did not even indicate clearly that > Sun > > > is in > > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries and > > > hence > > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence conclude > that > > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be at > the > > > end > > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn and > > > nodes > > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > > Spirituality: > > > <> > > > > > < > > > <>> > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > 40> > > > <sohamsa% > > > 40>, > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu > during > > > > > Sukla > > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas of > > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger > between > > > Moon > > > > > and > > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more information > on > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha > nakshatra > > > in > > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- > nakshatra > > > > > being > > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in > > > Cancer in > > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore stronger > than > > > the > > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day the > > > Moon > > > > > had > > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which Lakshman > was > > > born. > > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during that > time > > > > > from > > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya during > Sri > > > > > Rama's > > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > <http://srigaruda.com > > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few > > > > > days. I > > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1- 18- > 8 > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1- 18-9 > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1- 18- > 10 > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam > || 1- > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > completion; > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; > > > tataH= > > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre > naavamike > > > > > tithau= > > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > > daivatye= > > > > > star > > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; > panchasu > > > > > graheSu > > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, > highest, > > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH > > > > > indunaa > > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along > > > with; > > > > > pra > > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime > � > > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord > > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > > lakshana > > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= > Vishnu's; > > > > > artham= > > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly > > > blessed > > > > > one; > > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita > > > aksham= > > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta > oSTam= > > > > > roseate, > > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; > > > putram= > > > > > the > > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > Navami > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be > > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > Mercury > > > > > could > > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > (own) or > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that > there > > > are > > > > > five > > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular > > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and > > > Saturn. > > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the > > > other > > > > > three > > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in > > > cancer > > > > > on a > > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be > more > > > than > > > > > 108 > > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to > pisces. > > > > > Thus, > > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, > > > pisces > > > > > or > > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions > after > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Om Gurave Namah Dear Utpal Bhai, How are you? Happy Deepavali to all of you. I think Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is a Vishnu avatar. His father had a vision about Vishnu before Ramakrishna's birth and that's why Thakur's real name was Gadadhar. Apart from that i think tanother distinguishing feature of Vishnu avatars is worship of Divine Mother. whether as Rama, Krishna or Thakur, Vishnu always worshipped Divine Mother, as Durga, Katyayani, Kali etc. I really don't know about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. There's also that quote from Sri Ramakrishna, saying that ... " He who was Rama and Krishna is now Ramakrishna... " ! I consider Swami Vivekananda to be Shiva avatar. Vishnu and shiva are both necessary for dharma as Sun and Jupiter are...so you always find Shiva avatar in the story of Vishnu avatars..., like Hanuman in Ramayana. Regards, Lakshmi sohamsa , " utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak wrote: > > Lakshmi bahen, > > You wrote: > > >...Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, > >with moon in lagna, > >lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) > > What are the combination of a Shiva Avataar? > > Thakur might be a combined avataar if we apply a logic. His father > got the realisation from Vishnu temple in Gaya and mother actually > saw a pool of light entering her body from a small shiva shrine. > > Hence the birth story of Thakur actually provides a 'antidote' for > the people who always try to belittle either Lord Vishnu or lord > Shiva. It is an eye opener which proves that Lord Vishnu and Lord > Shiva are not different. > > sorry for deviating from the main topic. > > Warm Regards > > Utpal > > > sohamsa , " b_lakshmi_ramesh " > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > Namaste. > > > > Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking. > > > > Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and > > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around > 15 > > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting > > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that > > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and > > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly > > feasible. > > > > So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to > > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have > > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I > have > > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct > > myself. > > > > > > 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, > > without any benefic intervention, is the classic " asatyavaadi > yoga " ... > > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very > > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. > > > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for > > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. > You > > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. > > > > Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna > > Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, > > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, > > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by > > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, > > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart > Sun > > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. > > > > Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said > in > > Almora. > > > > The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th > > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one > else > > can cause mistakes like the nodes. > > > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in > > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be > in > > 10H for this to happen:--)) > > > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could > be > > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun > > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in > the > > 12th month after conception. > > > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the > > term " Satya ParaakramaH " to describe Sri Rama (he also called > Bharata > > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great > > devotion to Truth. > > > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > > > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following > sunrise, > > comes > > > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this > the > > > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > > > > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat > was > > born > > > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a > > maximum > > > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40 > > hours > > > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed > of > > 10 > > > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. > Even > > if > > > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17 > > degrees > > > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using > the > > > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to > Pisces > > (8 > > > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > > > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in > Pushya > > nakshatra. > > > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours > > after is > > > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra > > with > > > Pisces lagna. > > > > > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman > > and > > > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had > Moon > > in > > > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during > > Rama's > > > birth to begin with. > > > > > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as > nice > > > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more > > > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's > > chart > > > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the > Sun. > > > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from > the > > Sun. > > > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major > karma > > as > > > this is the abhijit rasi. > > > > > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and > > receives > > > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the > Sun > > and > > > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > > > > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > > > > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha > which > > > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? > > Dasaratha > > > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another > > father. > > > > > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga > > (second > > > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of > > Ayodhya. > > > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the > tenth > > > giving political power which is required for kings and > politicians > > alike. > > > > > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars > would > > surely > > > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to > avoid > > in > > > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is > the > > > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > -- > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com > > > <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is > > indeed > > > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born > at > > > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were > born on > > > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation > in > > > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and > > Lakshmana > > > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had > checked > > and > > > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & > > sattwik > > > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such > > > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is > > conjunct > > > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in > > Martian > > > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any > benefic > > > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more > fiery > > and > > > > aggressive. > > > > > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The > > > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it > further. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than > starting > > > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are > > said to > > > > be > > > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from > Ramas > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu > nakshatra, it > > > > means > > > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu > > until > > > > the > > > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. > this is > > > > the > > > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of > > Pisces > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 > > degrees > > > > in 24 > > > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore > after > > the > > > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > > > traversed > > > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya > nakshatra. > > > > > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra > is > > > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga > > elements). > > > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, > Pushya > > as the > > > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of > > Lakshmana and > > > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and > > others > > > > are > > > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice > is > > to > > > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna > > > > nakshatra > > > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in > > > > certain > > > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra > as > > the > > > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he > would > > have > > > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying " born on > > Navami in > > > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra " . He did not even indicate clearly > that > > Sun > > > > is in > > > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries > and > > > > hence > > > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence > conclude > > that > > > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be > at > > the > > > > end > > > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn > and > > > > nodes > > > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > Homam manual and audio: > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > <> > > > > > > < > > > > <>> > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > > http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > > 40> > > > > <sohamsa% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu > > during > > > > > > Sukla > > > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas > of > > > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger > > between > > > > Moon > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more > information > > on > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha > > nakshatra > > > > in > > > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- > > nakshatra > > > > > > being > > > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in > > > > Cancer in > > > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore > stronger > > than > > > > the > > > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day > the > > > > Moon > > > > > > had > > > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which > Lakshman > > was > > > > born. > > > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during > that > > time > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya > during > > Sri > > > > > > Rama's > > > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com > > > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past > few > > > > > > days. I > > > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1- > 18- > > 8 > > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu > pa.nchasu | > > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1- > 18-9 > > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1- > 18- > > 10 > > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi > svanam > > || 1- > > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > > completion; > > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed > by; > > > > tataH= > > > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre > > naavamike > > > > > > tithau= > > > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > > > daivatye= > > > > > > star > > > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; > > panchasu > > > > > > graheSu > > > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, > > highest, > > > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak > patiH > > > > > > indunaa > > > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, > along > > > > with; > > > > > > pra > > > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing > daytime > > � > > > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord > > > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > > > lakshana > > > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= > > Vishnu's; > > > > > > artham= > > > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly > > > > blessed > > > > > > one; > > > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita > > > > aksham= > > > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta > > oSTam= > > > > > > roseate, > > > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama > as; > > > > putram= > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > > Navami > > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said > to be > > > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > > Mercury > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > > (own) or > > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that > > there > > > > are > > > > > > five > > > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be > popular > > > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus > and > > > > Saturn. > > > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, > the > > > > other > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is > in > > > > cancer > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should > be > > more > > > > than > > > > > > 108 > > > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to > > pisces. > > > > > > Thus, > > > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- > aqua, > > > > pisces > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary > positions > > after > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 हरे राम कृष्ण॥ Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar Thank you for your reply. My comments to your points below. Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly feasible. Visti: Yes, this is what Narasimha has proposed. So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct myself. Visti: This is because in your previous mail you mentioned that Rama was born on the first day, followed by Bharata on the second day and the twins on the third day. Therefore i had to prove that theory wrong. 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"... (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. Visti: Kapata yoga is formed by planets in the lagna and fourth house. With two strong satvic grahas in the lagna, there isn't an untruthful bone in his body, but with Saturn in the fourth a great disappointment has to be seen. Second lord can therefore easily be in Aries. Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. Visti: Do you think Sri Chaitanya is a Yuga avatara? He surely is a Vishnu avatara, but... Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. Visti: Also see the previous sloka in Sarvartha Chintamani, viz. Sun in lagna with Jupiter and Saturn influencing the ninth house in eka-amsa bhaga (same navamsa?) - birth of a Muni. Further, the dictum for a yuga avatara must have i) moon in lagna; ii) Jupiter, Sun and Mars must be in makara-amsa and influence the ninth house. Therefore this dictum of having Sun influencing the ninth house is applicable to navamsa, but not at all necessary for rasi. Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in Almora. Visti: Guruji said that the ninth lord must have digbala and also be placed in abhijit rasi. This is what i've been repeating. The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else can cause mistakes like the nodes. Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in 10H for this to happen:--)) Visti: I disagree. Such a yoga is said to make one mahipati or ksitipati. This means lord of earth and isn't directly synonymous with occupying a throne (simhasana) but occupying vast amount of land which many prominent businessmen do these days. You will have to find a different justification for his simhasana yoga. Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the 12th month after conception. Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then the Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra avataras have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra).. therefore if anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka surya). This is further justified as Sri Krishna established the Somanatha jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama established the Rameshvara Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun. Sri Rama and his brothers were born in the 12th month after the puja, not twelfth month after conception. This is perfectly fine as they say the father begins to carry the seed for three months before conception. Further, how do you see the separation from family that Sri Rama experienced if Surya is not in the first/seventh from Lagna/AL and either exalted/debilitated. Sri Tathagatha avatara had to experience the same karma when he left his family to renounce, and he also had this combination in Aries for cancer lagna. Difference was that Arudha lagna was in Libra. Also see Jiddu Krishnamurty's chart for this yoga. As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great devotion to Truth. If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) Visti: I'm not sure we can use this as an example of 'love for dharma'. Please give a real dictum for this otherwise we are just inventing new principles. To me there is no doubt that Sri Rama was born with Sun in Aries in arudha lagna, and further in Deva Shastyamsa. Therefore the tradition teaches the relevance of Sri Rama's lagna nakshatra vs. the chandra nakshatra in defining the Janma nakshatra. Looking forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: Om Gurave Namah Dear Visti, Namaste. Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking. Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly feasible. So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct myself. 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"... (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in Almora. The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else can cause mistakes like the nodes. Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in 10H for this to happen:--)) Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the 12th month after conception. As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great devotion to Truth. If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) Regards, Lakshmi sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following sunrise, comes > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this the > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat was born > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a maximum > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40 hours > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed of 10 > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. Even if > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17 degrees > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using the > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to Pisces (8 > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in Pushya nakshatra. > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours after is > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra with > Pisces lagna. > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman and > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had Moon in > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during Rama's > birth to begin with. > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as nice > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's chart > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the Sun. > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from the Sun. > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major karma as > this is the abhijit rasi. > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and receives > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the Sun and > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha which > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? Dasaratha > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another father. > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga (second > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of Ayodhya. > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the tenth > giving political power which is required for kings and politicians alike. > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars would surely > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to avoid in > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is the > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > <http://srigaruda.com> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > Namaste. > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is indeed > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born at > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born on > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation in > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and Lakshmana > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had checked and > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & sattwik > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is conjunct > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in Martian > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any benefic > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more fiery and > > aggressive. > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it further. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40>, > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than starting > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are said to > > be > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from Ramas > > birth. > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu nakshatra, it > > means > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu until > > the > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. this is > > the > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of Pisces > > lagna. > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 degrees > > in 24 > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore after the > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > traversed > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya nakshatra. > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra is > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > -- > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga elements). > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, Pushya as the > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of Lakshmana and > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and others > > are > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice is to > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna > > nakshatra > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in > > certain > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra as the > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he would have > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying "born on Navami in > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra". He did not even indicate clearly that Sun > > is in > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries and > > hence > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence conclude that > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be at the > > end > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn and > > nodes > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------------------- > > > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > Spirituality: > > <> > > > > < > > <>> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% 40> > > <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu during > > > > Sukla > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas of > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger between > > Moon > > > > and > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more information on > > this. > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha nakshatra > > in > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- nakshatra > > > > being > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in > > Cancer in > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore stronger than > > the > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day the > > Moon > > > > had > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which Lakshman was > > born. > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during that time > > > > from > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya during Sri > > > > Rama's > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few > > > > days. I > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18- 8 > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18- 10 > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1- > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > completion; > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; > > tataH= > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike > > > > tithau= > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > daivatye= > > > > star > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu > > > > graheSu > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH > > > > indunaa > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along > > with; > > > > pra > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime � > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > lakshana > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= Vishnu's; > > > > artham= > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly > > blessed > > > > one; > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita > > aksham= > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > > > > roseate, > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; > > putram= > > > > the > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury > > > > could > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that there > > are > > > > five > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and > > Saturn. > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the > > other > > > > three > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in > > cancer > > > > on a > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be more > > than > > > > 108 > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. > > > > Thus, > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, > > pisces > > > > or > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after > > > > hearing > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Dear Ms Margaret I havent done any research on astronomical positions w.r to this chart. The suggestion given by you has six planets in own exalted.Thus even if Sun is considered to be in Pisces,it will meet the condition without including Rahu/Ketu. Jup/Moon/Saturn/Mars/Ve. Regds Pradeep , " Marg " <margie9 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > In September the British Association of Vedic Astrologers discussed Rama's chart and Krsn'a chart during an international conference call. > Rama's chart was suggested to be Jup/Mon Cancer lagna, Sun Merucry tenth house, Venus eleventh, Saturn fourth, Mars tenth, Rahu sixth house. > best wishes > M > > - > kishore patnaik > vedic astrology ; ; Astro_Remedies ; ; lalkitab ; naastrology ; SJC- Africa ; ; sohamsa ; Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18- 11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Hi Pradeep It was Andrew Foss who did the research for the chart I understand, we discussed it as a group and it came out in the interpretation as a fairly reasonable chart for such an icon of history. We actually looked at the chart on my original vedic astrology course. It's very interesting to interpret knowing as little as we do about the actual dates of life and times of such a person. best wishes M - vijayadas_pradeep Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:33 AM Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama Dear Ms Margaret I havent done any research on astronomical positions w.r to this chart. The suggestion given by you has six planets in own exalted.Thus even if Sun is considered to be in Pisces,it will meet the condition without including Rahu/Ketu. Jup/Moon/Saturn/Mars/Ve. Regds Pradeep , " Marg " <margie9 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > In September the British Association of Vedic Astrologers discussed Rama's chart and Krsn'a chart during an international conference call. > Rama's chart was suggested to be Jup/Mon Cancer lagna, Sun Merucry tenth house, Venus eleventh, Saturn fourth, Mars tenth, Rahu sixth house. > best wishes > M > > - > kishore patnaik > vedic astrology ; ; Astro_Remedies ; ; lalkitab ; naastrology ; SJC- Africa ; ; sohamsa ; Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18- 11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 हरे राम कृष्ण॥ Dear Nitish, Namaskar Each house has a 'main' karaka. These dominate over the other karakatvas of the house and should be worshiped to perform the 'utkilaka' or unlocking of the house and its effects. Therefore AK must be either Moon or Jupiter. Since Sri Rama is a yuga avatara his ninth lord Jupiter MUST be in Capricorn navamsa (just like Sri Krishna) and therefore be in the seventh navamsa. It can therefore be a contender for atmakaraka. Yours sincerely, -- Visti Larsen - SJC Guru Jaimini SJC - Denmark email: visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com yeeahoo_99 wrote: || OM TAT SAT || Dear visti, Just happened to read your mail. >Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then the Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra avataras have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra).. therefore if anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka surya). This is further justified as Sri Krishna established the Somanatha jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama established the Rameshvara Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun. Surya is a karaka for 1,9,10. So why the AK of Ram cannot be one of Ve,Ju,Mo? regards, nitish sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote: > > ??? ??? ?????? > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > > Thank you for your reply. > My comments to your points below. > > /Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama'//s was born in Karka lagna and > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...//which is perfectly > feasible. > /* > Visti: Yes, this is what Narasimha has proposed. > > */So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand..//.you must have > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct > myself. > / > > *Visti: This is because in your previous mail you mentioned that Rama > was born on the first day, followed by Bharata on the second day and the > twins on the third day. Therefore i had to prove that theory wrong. > * > > /2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, > without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"... > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations)//. Sun's exaltation could very > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. > / > > *Visti: Kapata yoga is formed by planets in the lagna and fourth house. > With two strong satvic grahas in the lagna, there isn't an untruthful > bone in his body, but with Saturn in the fourth a great disappointment > has to be seen. Second lord can therefore easily be in Aries.* > / > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. > / > > *Visti: Do you think Sri Chaitanya is a Yuga avatara? He surely is a > Vishnu avatara, but... > > */Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna > Paramahamsa'//s (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. > / > > *Visti: Also see the previous sloka in Sarvartha Chintamani, viz. Sun in > lagna with Jupiter and Saturn influencing the ninth house in eka-amsa > bhaga (same navamsa?) - birth of a Muni. > * > > *Further, the dictum for a yuga avatara must have i) moon in lagna; ii) > Jupiter, Sun and Mars must be in makara-amsa and influence the ninth > house. Therefore this dictum of having Sun influencing the ninth house > is applicable to navamsa, but not at all necessary for rasi. > > * > > /Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in > Almora. > / > > *Visti: Guruji said that the ninth lord must have digbala and also be > placed in abhijit rasi. This is what i've been repeating. > * > > /The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else > can cause mistakes like the nodes. > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in > 10H for this to happen:--))/ > > *Visti: I disagree. Such a yoga is said to make one mahipati or > ksitipati. This means lord of earth and isn't directly synonymous with > occupying a throne (simhasana) but occupying vast amount of land which > many prominent businessmen do these days. You will have to find a > different justification for his simhasana yoga. > */ > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the > 12th month after conception. > / > > *Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also > Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then the > Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra avataras > have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra).. therefore if > anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka surya). This is > further justified as Sri Krishna established the Somanatha jyotirlinga - > Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama established the Rameshvara > Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun. > * > > *Sri Rama and his brothers were born in the 12th month after the puja, > not twelfth month after conception. This is perfectly fine as they say > the father begins to carry the seed for three months before conception. > * > > *Further, how do you see the separation from family that Sri Rama > experienced if Surya is not in the first/seventh from Lagna/AL and > either exalted/debilitated. Sri Tathagatha avatara had to experience the > same karma when he left his family to renounce, and he also had this > combination in Aries for cancer lagna. Difference was that Arudha lagna > was in Libra. Also see Jiddu Krishnamurty's chart for this yoga.* > / > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the > term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great > devotion to Truth. > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > / > > *Visti: I'm not sure we can use this as an example of 'love for dharma'. > Please give a real dictum for this otherwise we are just inventing new > principles. > To me there is no doubt that Sri Rama was born with Sun in Aries in > arudha lagna, and further in Deva Shastyamsa. Therefore the tradition > teaches the relevance of Sri Rama's lagna nakshatra vs. the chandra > nakshatra in defining the Janma nakshatra. > * > > Looking forward to your reply. > > Yours sincerely, > > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > email: visti <visti > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > <http://srigaruda.com> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > Namaste. > > > > Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking. > > > > Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and > > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15 > > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting > > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that > > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and > > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly > > feasible. > > > > So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to > > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have > > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have > > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct > > myself. > > > > > > > 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, > > without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"... > > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very > > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. > > > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for > > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You > > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. > > > > Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna > > Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna, > > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, > > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by > > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, > > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun > > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. > > > > Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in > > Almora. > > > > The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th > > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else > > can cause mistakes like the nodes. > > > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in > > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in > > 10H for this to happen:--)) > > > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be > > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun > > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the > > 12th month after conception. > > > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the > > term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata > > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great > > devotion to Truth. > > > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > > > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following sunrise, > > comes > > > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this the > > > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > > > > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat was > > born > > > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a > > maximum > > > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40 > > hours > > > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed of > > 10 > > > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. Even > > if > > > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17 > > degrees > > > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using the > > > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to Pisces > > (8 > > > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > > > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in Pushya > > nakshatra. > > > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours > > after is > > > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra > > with > > > Pisces lagna. > > > > > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman > > and > > > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had Moon > > in > > > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during > > Rama's > > > birth to begin with. > > > > > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as nice > > > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more > > > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's > > chart > > > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the Sun. > > > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from the > > Sun. > > > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major karma > > as > > > this is the abhijit rasi. > > > > > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and > > receives > > > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the Sun > > and > > > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > > > > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > > > > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha which > > > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? > > Dasaratha > > > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another > > father. > > > > > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga > > (second > > > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of > > Ayodhya. > > > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the tenth > > > giving political power which is required for kings and politicians > > alike. > > > > > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars would > > surely > > > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to avoid > > in > > > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is the > > > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > -- > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is > > indeed > > > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born at > > > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born on > > > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation in > > > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and > > Lakshmana > > > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had checked > > and > > > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & > > sattwik > > > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such > > > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is > > conjunct > > > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in > > Martian > > > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any benefic > > > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more fiery > > and > > > > aggressive. > > > > > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The > > > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it further. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > > <sohamsa% > > 40>, > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than starting > > > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are > > said to > > > > be > > > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from Ramas > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu nakshatra, it > > > > means > > > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu > > until > > > > the > > > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. this is > > > > the > > > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of > > Pisces > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 > > degrees > > > > in 24 > > > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore after > > the > > > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > > > traversed > > > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya nakshatra. > > > > > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra is > > > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga > > elements). > > > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, Pushya > > as the > > > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of > > Lakshmana and > > > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and > > others > > > > are > > > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice is > > to > > > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna > > > > nakshatra > > > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in > > > > certain > > > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra as > > the > > > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he would > > have > > > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying "born on > > Navami in > > > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra". He did not even indicate clearly that > > Sun > > > > is in > > > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries and > > > > hence > > > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence conclude > > that > > > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be at > > the > > > > end > > > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn and > > > > nodes > > > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > Homam manual and audio: http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > > > > Spirituality: > > <> > > > > < > > <>> > > > > > > < > > <> > > > > < > > <>>> > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > > http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa% > > 40> > > > > <sohamsa% > > > > 40>, > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu > > during > > > > > > Sukla > > > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas of > > > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger > > between > > > > Moon > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more information > > on > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha > > nakshatra > > > > in > > > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- > > nakshatra > > > > > > being > > > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in > > > > Cancer in > > > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore stronger > > than > > > > the > > > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day the > > > > Moon > > > > > > had > > > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which Lakshman > > was > > > > born. > > > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during that > > time > > > > > > from > > > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya during > > Sri > > > > > > Rama's > > > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few > > > > > > days. I > > > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18- > > 8 > > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18- > > 10 > > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam > > || 1- > > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > > completion; > > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; > > > > tataH= > > > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre > > naavamike > > > > > > tithau= > > > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > > > daivatye= > > > > > > star > > > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; > > panchasu > > > > > > graheSu > > > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, > > highest, > > > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH > > > > > > indunaa > > > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along > > > > with; > > > > > > pra > > > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime > > � > > > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord > > > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > > > lakshana > > > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= > > Vishnu's; > > > > > > artham= > > > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly > > > > blessed > > > > > > one; > > > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita > > > > aksham= > > > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta > > oSTam= > > > > > > roseate, > > > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; > > > > putram= > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > > Navami > > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be > > > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > > Mercury > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > > (own) or > > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that > > there > > > > are > > > > > > five > > > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular > > > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and > > > > Saturn. > > > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the > > > > other > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in > > > > cancer > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be > > more > > > > than > > > > > > 108 > > > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to > > pisces. > > > > > > Thus, > > > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, > > > > pisces > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions > > after > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Om Gurave Namah Dear Visti, Namaste. Thanks for responding and I request you to clarify the following points as well. Lakshmi: Now that we agree that Lakshmana are Shatrughna are born nearly 40 hours from Sri Rama's birth, and not on the next day morning, we can examine other points. > *Visti: Kapata yoga is formed by planets in the lagna and fourth house. > With two strong satvic grahas in the lagna, there isn't an untruthful > bone in his body, but with Saturn in the fourth a great disappointment > has to be seen. Second lord can therefore easily be in Aries.* > / Lakshmi: One can be good hearted and can still be untruthful occasionally. Kapata yoga need not be there for untruthfulness to occur. What about the " asatyavaadi yoga " ? you have not commented about it. *Visti: Do you think Sri Chaitanya is a Yuga avatara? He surely is a > Vishnu avatara, but... Lakshmi: Visti, I only recall combinations for Vishnu avatars and not for yuga avatars of Vishnu. If it's specifically / separately mentioned, please let me know the dictum, so that i can undestand the difference. > *Visti: Also see the previous sloka in Sarvartha Chintamani, viz. Sun in > lagna with Jupiter and Saturn influencing the ninth house in eka- amsa > bhaga (same navamsa?) - birth of a Muni. > * > > *Further, the dictum for a yuga avatara must have i) moon in lagna; ii) > Jupiter, Sun and Mars must be in makara-amsa and influence the ninth > house. Therefore this dictum of having Sun influencing the ninth house > is applicable to navamsa, but not at all necessary for rasi. > Lakshmi: Say, if Rama was born in Pushyami nakshatra , as you say, on Navami tithi, at the most that would put Sun very much in the early degrees0-3 degrees of Aries...hence in Aries navamsa itself. Can you tell me how Sun can be in makara-amsa or influence makara-amsa from Aries? whereas Sun in Pisces will have distinct possibilities to be in makara-amsa or influence makara amsa!! > *Visti: Guruji said that the ninth lord must have digbala and also be > placed in abhijit rasi. This is what i've been repeating. Lakshmi: My copy of Sarvartha Chintamani does not have slokas (I must buy a different version) so i can not recall the dictum. Can you please help me out by giving the dictum? > *Visti: I disagree. Such a yoga is said to make one mahipati or > ksitipati. This means lord of earth and isn't directly synonymous with > occupying a throne (simhasana) but occupying vast amount of land which > many prominent businessmen do these days. You will have to find a > different justification for his simhasana yoga. Lakshmi: I refer to shloka 45 in Chapter 41 (Raja Yogas) from BPHS, and Parasara uses the unambiguous term of " Raja " to refer to someone who has 4 or 5 planets in exaltation or moolatrikona....hence there's no confusion about Kingship. Such a person, even if " base-born " (heena vamsa) will become the king, says Parasara...such is the power of this yoga and sri rama was born in the illustrious Ikshwaku vamsa!! > *Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also > Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then the > Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra avataras > have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra).. therefore if > anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka surya). This is > further justified as Sri Krishna established the Somanatha jyotirlinga - > Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama established the Rameshvara > Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun. Lakshmi: Your point is well taken. But are we not ignoring the basic fact that Sri Rama was born in Surya vamsa and hence carried the beeja/essence of Surya, hence He's the Surya avatara? Same is the case with Sri Krishna who was born in the Chandra Vamsa. > > *Sri Rama and his brothers were born in the 12th month after the puja, > not twelfth month after conception. This is perfectly fine as they say > the father begins to carry the seed for three months before conception. Lakshmi: Three months is the time taken by Father (Father's body) to condense/prepare semen from the food consumed. In this case, food/prasadam/payasam was directly consumed by the three queens, given to them by Dasaratha... so that was the time of conception. There was no physical transfer of beeja from father. So, 12 months from puja was 12 months from conception. > > *Further, how do you see the separation from family that Sri Rama > experienced if Surya is not in the first/seventh from Lagna/AL and > either exalted/debilitated. Sri Tathagatha avatara had to experience the > same karma when he left his family to renounce, and he also had this > combination in Aries for cancer lagna. Difference was that Arudha lagna > was in Libra. Also see Jiddu Krishnamurty's chart for this yoga.* Lakshmi: Mars in 7th or influencing the 7th can also cause separation from wife.. I had already mentioned nodal influence on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lords in 9th house...alienation from family caused by mistake of father. > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > / Lakshmi: I will certainly give, Visti, perhaps later in the night. I have to run away.. > > To me there is no doubt that Sri Rama was born with Sun in Aries in > arudha lagna, and further in Deva Shastyamsa. Therefore the tradition > teaches the relevance of Sri Rama's lagna nakshatra vs. the chandra > nakshatra in defining the Janma nakshatra. Lakshmi: i also have no doubt that Sri Rama's janma nakshatra is Punarvasu, which is also what tradition says. I always look forward to your replies, because i can learn so much from them. Regards, Lakshmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear Lakshmiji and other respected astrologers, It's interesting that Vivekananda, as quoted in his compiled works, has mentioned that his mother worshipped Lord Shiva for years, observing fasts etc. asking him to grant her a son like Himself. He was very naughty. The only way he could be silenced was for her to put him under running water and chant Shiva nama. Sometimes he jokingly wondered if Shiva had sent ghosts and other creatures that used to wander around him in his cremation ground meditation places instead of a noble soul! Also, given the way he was received while meeting Ramakrishna the first time, as a long waited for disciple, it seems that they have had previous incarnations working together. So what you have proposed seems to be true. Cheers Shiv sohamsa , " b_lakshmi_ramesh " <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Utpal Bhai, > > How are you? Happy Deepavali to all of you. > > I think Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa is a Vishnu avatar. His father > had a vision about Vishnu before Ramakrishna's birth and that's why > Thakur's real name was Gadadhar. > > Apart from that i think tanother distinguishing feature of Vishnu > avatars is worship of Divine Mother. whether as Rama, Krishna or > Thakur, Vishnu always worshipped Divine Mother, as Durga, Katyayani, > Kali etc. I really don't know about Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. > > There's also that quote from Sri Ramakrishna, saying that ... " He who > was Rama and Krishna is now Ramakrishna... " ! > > I consider Swami Vivekananda to be Shiva avatar. Vishnu and shiva are > both necessary for dharma as Sun and Jupiter are...so you always find > Shiva avatar in the story of Vishnu avatars..., like Hanuman in > Ramayana. > > Regards, > Lakshmi sohamsa , " utpal pathak " <vedic_pathak@> > wrote: > > > > Lakshmi bahen, > > > > You wrote: > > > > >...Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, > > >with moon in lagna, > > >lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) > > > > What are the combination of a Shiva Avataar? > > > > Thakur might be a combined avataar if we apply a logic. His father > > got the realisation from Vishnu temple in Gaya and mother actually > > saw a pool of light entering her body from a small shiva shrine. > > > > Hence the birth story of Thakur actually provides a 'antidote' for > > the people who always try to belittle either Lord Vishnu or lord > > Shiva. It is an eye opener which proves that Lord Vishnu and Lord > > Shiva are not different. > > > > sorry for deviating from the main topic. > > > > Warm Regards > > > > Utpal > > > > > > sohamsa , " b_lakshmi_ramesh " > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought > provoking. > > > > > > Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and > > > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around > > 15 > > > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting > > > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that > > > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and > > > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly > > > feasible. > > > > > > So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to > > > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have > > > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I > > have > > > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct > > > myself. > > > > > > > > > 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn, > > > without any benefic intervention, is the classic " asatyavaadi > > yoga " ... > > > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very > > > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech. > > > > > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun > for > > > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. > > You > > > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart. > > > > > > Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna > > > Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in > lagna, > > > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts, > > > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house > by > > > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma, > > > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart > > Sun > > > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled. > > > > > > Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said > > in > > > Almora. > > > > > > The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th > > > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one > > else > > > can cause mistakes like the nodes. > > > > > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in > > > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not > be > > in > > > 10H for this to happen:--)) > > > > > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun > could > > be > > > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun > > > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in > > the > > > 12th month after conception. > > > > > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used > the > > > term " Satya ParaakramaH " to describe Sri Rama (he also called > > Bharata > > > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great > > > devotion to Truth. > > > > > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i > > > think she also has Sun in 9th:--)) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar > > > > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following > > sunrise, > > > comes > > > > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this > > the > > > > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama. > > > > > > > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat > > was > > > born > > > > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a > > > maximum > > > > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of > 40 > > > hours > > > > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed > > of > > > 10 > > > > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. > > Even > > > if > > > > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of > 17 > > > degrees > > > > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using > > the > > > > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to > > Pisces > > > (8 > > > > signs * 2 hours=16 hours). > > > > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in > > Pushya > > > nakshatra. > > > > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours > > > after is > > > > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya > nakshatra > > > with > > > > Pisces lagna. > > > > > > > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when > Laxman > > > and > > > > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had > > Moon > > > in > > > > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during > > > Rama's > > > > birth to begin with. > > > > > > > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as > > nice > > > > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find > more > > > > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu > avatara's > > > chart > > > > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the > > Sun. > > > > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from > > the > > > Sun. > > > > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major > > karma > > > as > > > > this is the abhijit rasi. > > > > > > > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and > > > receives > > > > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the > > Sun > > > and > > > > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara. > > > > > > > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart? > > > > > > > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha > > which > > > > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away? > > > Dasaratha > > > > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another > > > father. > > > > > > > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga > > > (second > > > > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of > > > Ayodhya. > > > > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the > > tenth > > > > giving political power which is required for kings and > > politicians > > > alike. > > > > > > > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars > > would > > > surely > > > > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to > > avoid > > > in > > > > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is > > the > > > > greatness of the Surya-vamsa? > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > http://srigaruda.com > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > Namaste. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is > > > indeed > > > > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were > born > > at > > > > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were > > born on > > > > > the very next day? I have not come across any such > observation > > in > > > > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out. > > > > > > > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and > > > Lakshmana > > > > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had > > checked > > > and > > > > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time. > > > > > > > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & > > > sattwik > > > > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in > such > > > > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is > > > conjunct > > > > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in > > > Martian > > > > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any > > benefic > > > > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more > > fiery > > > and > > > > > aggressive. > > > > > > > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. > The > > > > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it > > further. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > > > 40>, > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > ??? ??? ?????? > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar > > > > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than > > starting > > > > > > Vimshottari dasa. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations* > > > > > > > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are > > > said to > > > > > be > > > > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from > > Ramas > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu > > nakshatra, it > > > > > means > > > > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of > Punarvasu > > > until > > > > > the > > > > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. > > this is > > > > > the > > > > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of > > > Pisces > > > > > lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15 > > > degrees > > > > > in 24 > > > > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore > > after > > > the > > > > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have > > > > > traversed > > > > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya > > nakshatra. > > > > > > > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's > nakshatra > > is > > > > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say? > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Visti, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga > > > elements). > > > > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, > > Pushya > > > as the > > > > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of > > > Lakshmana and > > > > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and > > > others > > > > > are > > > > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard > practice > > is > > > to > > > > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's > lagna > > > > > nakshatra > > > > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed > in > > > > > certain > > > > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra > > as > > > the > > > > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he > > would > > > have > > > > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying " born on > > > Navami in > > > > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra " . He did not even indicate clearly > > that > > > Sun > > > > > is in > > > > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in > Aries > > and > > > > > hence > > > > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence > > conclude > > > that > > > > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be > > at > > > the > > > > > end > > > > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn > > and > > > > > nodes > > > > > > > are in exaltation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > Homam manual and audio: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam> > > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > > > > > Spirituality: > > > > > <> > > > > > > > < > > > > > <>> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: > > > http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org > <http://www.SriJagannath.org>> > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa <sohamsa% > > > 40> > > > > > <sohamsa% > > > > > 40>, > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar > > > > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in > Punarvasu > > > during > > > > > > > Sukla > > > > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries. > > > > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the > slokas > > of > > > > > > > Satyacharya. > > > > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger > > > between > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more > > information > > > on > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha > > > nakshatra > > > > > in > > > > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna- > > > nakshatra > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna > in > > > > > Cancer in > > > > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore > > stronger > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > > > Moon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next > day > > the > > > > > Moon > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which > > Lakshman > > > was > > > > > born. > > > > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during > > that > > > time > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya > > during > > > Sri > > > > > > > Rama's > > > > > > > > birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > <http://srigaruda.com > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the > past > > few > > > > > > > days. I > > > > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with > > > > > > > > > the birth : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || > 1- > > 18- > > > 8 > > > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu > > pa.nchasu | > > > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1- > > 18-9 > > > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || > 1- > > 18- > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi > > svanam > > > || 1- > > > > > 18-11 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > > > > > completion; > > > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, > passed > > by; > > > > > tataH= > > > > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre > > > naavamike > > > > > > > tithau= > > > > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi > > > > > daivatye= > > > > > > > star > > > > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; > > > panchasu > > > > > > > graheSu > > > > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, > > > highest, > > > > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak > > patiH > > > > > > > indunaa > > > > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, > > along > > > > > with; > > > > > > > pra > > > > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing > > daytime > > > � > > > > > > > abhijit lagna; > > > > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', > lord > > > > > [Vishnu]; > > > > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya > > > > > lakshana > > > > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= > > > Vishnu's; > > > > > > > artham= > > > > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly > > > > > blessed > > > > > > > one; > > > > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > > lohita > > > > > aksham= > > > > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta > > > oSTam= > > > > > > > roseate, > > > > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama > > as; > > > > > putram= > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are > clear: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of > > > Navami > > > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said > > to be > > > > > > > vakpati. Is > > > > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since > > > Mercury > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa > > > (own) or > > > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that > > > there > > > > > are > > > > > > > five > > > > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be > > popular > > > > > refrain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus > > and > > > > > Saturn. > > > > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > > three > > > > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is > > in > > > > > cancer > > > > > > > on a > > > > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should > > be > > > more > > > > > than > > > > > > > 108 > > > > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to > > > pisces. > > > > > > > Thus, > > > > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- > > aqua, > > > > > pisces > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > aries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary > > positions > > > after > > > > > > > hearing > > > > > > > > > from all of you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > 98492 70729 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear Marg, Can you please send me the relevant papers presented? regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 On 11/5/07, Marg <margie9 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > In September the British Association of Vedic Astrologers discussed Rama's > chart and Krsn'a chart during an international conference call. > Rama's chart was suggested to be Jup/Mon Cancer lagna, Sun Merucry tenth > house, Venus eleventh, Saturn fourth, Mars tenth, Rahu sixth house. > best wishes > M > > - > kishore patnaik > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; > <%40.\ com>; > Astro_Remedies <Astro_Remedies%40> ; > <%40> ; > lalkitab <lalkitab%40> ; > naastrology <naastrology%40> ; > <%40> ; > <%40> ; > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> ; > Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad <Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad%40.\ com> > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; > R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a > navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear all, It is a matter of our merits that have been accumulated during our earlier births that we are spending this Diwali in the chant of Rama, rather than wasting our time otherwise. I wish everyone on the group a merry and a holy Diwali. Srimad Ramayana is a depository of several yogic and cosmic secrets. For eg., Sree Sundara Kanda is directly interpreted as the search of a yogi for the Kundalini downtrodden from Sahasrara to Muladhara. In fact, when I have raised the question, I have expected the Likes of PVR to search for an answer in that angle too,. Now, coming back to astrology, I always wondered why Valmiki had made so much out of the planetary positions of Rama when all the four brothers have shared the same D1, with Bharata's lagna being 9 houses away from others, a watery and shubha sthana nevertheless. More poignantly, shatrughan has shared the same D1 yet, he enjoyed a normal and smooth life, with some victories (such as over Ilasura) in his credit, as against the turbulent life that Rama has suffered. I think the secret lies in the Divisional charts. It is needless to point out that Moon of Sri Rama enjoys a Vargottama. As Visti has pointed out that it is quite possible that moon is at the very end of 4th pada of the asterism and this will make the Sun being in the last pada of Pisces(possibly) This will make the sun also vargottama. Now, sun must be betwen 27-30 degrees of the pisces, which will take the lagna to complete the same in 12 minutes. The remaining lagnas of Aries, Tarurus and Gemini can be complete in almost 6 hours - not withstanding the 12 minutes above- making the abhihjt lagna a possibility. In such an event , the lagna also falls in the first pada of Cancer, which will make lagna also vargottama. Now, I leave to the Group to discuss further if I am missing something. regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hare Rama Krishna Dear all, I'm curious , in earlier times, which ayanamsas did people use? Best wishes Lakshmi Kary kishore patnaik <kishorepatnaik09vedic astrology ; ; Astro_Remedies ; ; "lalkitab " <lalkitab >; naastrology ; ; ; sohamsa ; Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad ; jyotish_gangaSent: Thursday, November 8, 2007 7:29:25 AM Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama Dear all, It is a matter of our merits that have been accumulated during our earlier births that we are spending this Diwali in the chant of Rama, rather than wasting our time otherwise. I wish everyone on the group a merry and a holy Diwali. Srimad Ramayana is a depository of several yogic and cosmic secrets. For eg., Sree Sundara Kanda is directly interpreted as the search of a yogi for the Kundalini downtrodden from Sahasrara to Muladhara. In fact, when I have raised the question, I have expected the Likes of PVR to search for an answer in that angle too,. Now, coming back to astrology, I always wondered why Valmiki had made so much out of the planetary positions of Rama when all the four brothers have shared the same D1, with Bharata's lagna being 9 houses away from others, a watery and shubha sthana nevertheless. More poignantly, shatrughan has shared the same D1 yet, he enjoyed a normal and smooth life, with some victories (such as over Ilasura) in his credit, as against the turbulent life that Rama has suffered. I think the secret lies in the Divisional charts. It is needless to point out that Moon of Sri Rama enjoys a Vargottama. As Visti has pointed out that it is quite possible that moon is at the very end of 4th pada of the asterism and this will make the Sun being in the last pada of Pisces(possibly) This will make the sun also vargottama. Now, sun must be betwen 27-30 degrees of the pisces, which will take the lagna to complete the same in 12 minutes. The remaining lagnas of Aries, Tarurus and Gemini can be complete in almost 6 hours - not withstanding the 12 minutes above- making the abhihjt lagna a possibility. In such an event , the lagna also falls in the first pada of Cancer, which will make lagna also vargottama. Now, I leave to the Group to discuss further if I am missing something. regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hi I can send these to personal e mail for anyone who wants them, as a safe attachment, it will have Krsnas chart too, there is only the charts no exact dates. - kishore patnaik Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:23 AM Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama Dear Marg, Can you please send me the relevant papers presented? regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 On 11/5/07, Marg <margie9 wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > In September the British Association of Vedic Astrologers discussed Rama's > chart and Krsn'a chart during an international conference call. > Rama's chart was suggested to be Jup/Mon Cancer lagna, Sun Merucry tenth > house, Venus eleventh, Saturn fourth, Mars tenth, Rahu sixth house. > best wishes > M > > - > kishore patnaik > vedic astrology <vedic astrology%40> ; > <%40.\ com>; > Astro_Remedies <Astro_Remedies%40> ; > <%40> ; > lalkitab <lalkitab%40> ; > naastrology <naastrology%40> ; > <%40> ; > <%40> ; > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> ; > Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad <Vedic Astrology-Hyderabad%40.\ com> > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; > R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a > navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear Ms Margaret Thanks for the info.I think Mr.Foss is well aware of the technical aspects behind such a derivation(Astrological program).This effort is noteworthy.However there is another angle. There are two aspects w.r to time in this context.One is to understand the process of time and its evolution and the other is to position and trace events at a particular slot within a relative time scale.I have limitations and hence i refrain. Yuga and Yuga Avatars have higher meaning.Though Rama is a historical figure (mentioned in Ithihaas) there are higher meanings to it. Satapatha Brahmana(Sacrificial Procedures are mentioned here) etc do mention the significance of Aswamedha Yajna and they do explain the procedures.They do say YEAR is EVERYTHING and ASWAMEDHA is EVERYTHING.When we go at a slow pace we will gain all knowledge as and when it is destined.Essence of Aswamedha can only reveal the purpose of the Yajna done by Dasaratha. Moreover Lord in Bhagawat Gita has mentioned that for self - realization there is a special practise for every Yuga.In Treta Yuga ,the time of Lord Ramachandra,YAJNA was the method for realization.In Kali Yuga chanting etc is the one prescribed. Moreover physically unertaking an Yajna without understanding the significance is a mock process.The Aswa will not make a round.And One will become a donkey and Raja is no Raja.These are also present in the scriptures. What are the limbs of a horse is clear in Brihadarnyaka etc.If one reads Satapatha Brahmana the picture will be come more clear.If we sacrifice a horse in real then what we will become is also clear.Why every spring is chosen and why one waits until a spring etc are just clues.The Zodiac itself has all the story ,but it is multilayered and we may have to patiently seek and wait.Who is Rishyashringa itself will be there ,up in the sky. Thus i feel the current approach in fixing Ramas time is not the proper one. This is my personal feeling and the learned ones may forgive. Happy Diwali. Pradeep , " Marg " <margie9 wrote: > > Hi Pradeep > It was Andrew Foss who did the research for the chart I understand, we discussed it as a group and it came out in the interpretation as a fairly reasonable chart for such an icon of history. > We actually looked at the chart on my original vedic astrology course. It's very interesting to interpret knowing as little as we do about the actual dates of life and times of such a person. > best wishes > M > > - > vijayadas_pradeep > > Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:33 AM > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > Dear Ms Margaret > > I havent done any research on astronomical positions w.r to this > chart. > The suggestion given by you has six planets in own exalted.Thus even > if Sun is considered to be in Pisces,it will meet the condition > without including Rahu/Ketu. > > Jup/Moon/Saturn/Mars/Ve. > > Regds > Pradeep > , " Marg " <margie9@> wrote: > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > In September the British Association of Vedic Astrologers > discussed Rama's chart and Krsn'a chart during an international > conference call. > > Rama's chart was suggested to be Jup/Mon Cancer lagna, Sun Merucry > tenth house, Venus eleventh, Saturn fourth, Mars tenth, Rahu sixth > house. > > best wishes > > M > > > > - > > kishore patnaik > > vedic astrology ; > ; > Astro_Remedies ; ; > lalkitab ; naastrology ; SJC- > Africa ; ; > sohamsa ; Vedic Astrology- Hyderabad > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. > I am > > giving below the slokas connected with > > the birth : > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1- 18- > 11 > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on > completion; R^ituuNaam > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; > dvaadashe > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the > day > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa > uccha > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; > karkaTe > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when > Speech's, Lord > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when > raising � > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen > Kausalya; > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= > by all, > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, > along with; > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa > bhaagam= > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, > delight of; > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; > rakta oSTam= > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama > as; putram= > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be > vakpati. Is it > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could > not be > > with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > uccha(exalted) > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets > which are in > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. > While the > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three > planets places > > can be fixed only by discussion > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer > on a navami > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 > degrees. > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the > place of > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after > hearing from > > all of you. > > > > with best regards, > > > > kishore patnaik > > 98492 70729 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 || Hare Rama Krushna ||Namaskaar Visti Ji,> Since Sri Rama is a yuga avatara his ninth lord Jupiter MUST > be in Capricorn navamsa (just like Sri Krishna) and therefore be in the > seventh navamsa.Why must Guru be debilitated for a Yuga Avataara? I understand that Makara is a Kali Yuga rasi. However, I am not able to digest Guru's debilitation in Navamsa whilst exalted in Rasi as in Bhagawan Sri Rama's chart for Sri Vishnu avataara, and that too, a Dasavataara. This debilitation of Guru in Dharmamsa would ruin the Karakatva of Guru, which among many things include knowledge and wisdom.I think I should extend my question - why must these three grahas specifically - Guru, Mangal, and Surya - associate with Makara?Kindly explain.May Sri Vishnu bless us all,Reema.sohamsa , Visti Larsen <visti wrote:>> ??? ??? ??????> > Dear Nitish, Namaskar> Each house has a 'main' karaka. These dominate over the other karakatvas > of the house and should be worshiped to perform the 'utkilaka' or > unlocking of the house and its effects. Therefore AK must be either Moon > or Jupiter. Since Sri Rama is a yuga avatara his ninth lord Jupiter MUST > be in Capricorn navamsa (just like Sri Krishna) and therefore be in the > seventh navamsa. It can therefore be a contender for atmakaraka.> > Yours sincerely,> > -- > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> Jaimini SJC - Denmark> email: visti <visti For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: http://srigaruda.com > <http://srigaruda.com>> > yeeahoo_99 wrote:> >> > || OM TAT SAT ||> > Dear visti,> > Just happened to read your mail.> >> > >Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also> > Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then> > the Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra> > avataras have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra)..> > therefore if anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka> > surya). This is further justified as Sri Krishna established the> > Somanatha jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama> > established the Rameshvara Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun.> >> > Surya is a karaka for 1,9,10. So why the AK of Ram cannot be one of> > Ve,Ju,Mo?> >> > regards,> > nitish> >> > sohamsa <sohamsa%40>, > > Visti Larsen visti@ wrote:> > >> > > ??? ??? ??????> > >> > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar> > >> > > Thank you for your reply.> > > My comments to your points below.> > >> > > /Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama'//s was born in Karka lagna and> > > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15> > > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting> > > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that> > > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and> > > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...//which is perfectly> > > feasible.> > > /*> > > Visti: Yes, this is what Narasimha has proposed.> > >> > > */So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to> > > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand..//.you must have> > > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have> > > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct> > > myself.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: This is because in your previous mail you mentioned that Rama> > > was born on the first day, followed by Bharata on the second day and> > the> > > twins on the third day. Therefore i had to prove that theory wrong.> > > *> > >> > > /2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn,> > > without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"...> > > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations)//. Sun's exaltation could very> > > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: Kapata yoga is formed by planets in the lagna and fourth house.> > > With two strong satvic grahas in the lagna, there isn't an untruthful> > > bone in his body, but with Saturn in the fourth a great disappointment> > > has to be seen. Second lord can therefore easily be in Aries.*> > > /> > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for> > > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You> > > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: Do you think Sri Chaitanya is a Yuga avatara? He surely is a> > > Vishnu avatara, but...> > >> > > */Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna> > > Paramahamsa'//s (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna,> > > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts,> > > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by> > > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma,> > > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun> > > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: Also see the previous sloka in Sarvartha Chintamani, viz.> > Sun in> > > lagna with Jupiter and Saturn influencing the ninth house in eka-amsa> > > bhaga (same navamsa?) - birth of a Muni.> > > *> > >> > > *Further, the dictum for a yuga avatara must have i) moon in lagna; ii)> > > Jupiter, Sun and Mars must be in makara-amsa and influence the ninth> > > house. Therefore this dictum of having Sun influencing the ninth house> > > is applicable to navamsa, but not at all necessary for rasi.> > >> > > *> > >> > > /Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in> > > Almora.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: Guruji said that the ninth lord must have digbala and also be> > > placed in abhijit rasi. This is what i've been repeating.> > > *> > >> > > /The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th> > > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else> > > can cause mistakes like the nodes.> > >> > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in> > > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in> > > 10H for this to happen:--))/> > >> > > *Visti: I disagree. Such a yoga is said to make one mahipati or> > > ksitipati. This means lord of earth and isn't directly synonymous with> > > occupying a throne (simhasana) but occupying vast amount of land which> > > many prominent businessmen do these days. You will have to find a> > > different justification for his simhasana yoga.> > > */> > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be> > > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun> > > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the> > > 12th month after conception.> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: So is Sri Krishna also Surya avatara? His atmakaraka is also> > > Surya? How about Chaitanya whose atmakaraka was Shani... is he then the> > > Shani avatara? No, instead see that the two Krishna/Chandra avataras> > > have Atmakaraka in the fourth house (karaka chandra).. therefore if> > > anything then Rama's atmakaraka must be in Lagna (karaka surya).> > This is> > > further justified as Sri Krishna established the Somanatha> > jyotirlinga -> > > Exaltation of Moon, whilst Sri Rama established the Rameshvara> > > Jyotirlinga - Exaltation of Sun.> > > *> > >> > > *Sri Rama and his brothers were born in the 12th month after the puja,> > > not twelfth month after conception. This is perfectly fine as they say> > > the father begins to carry the seed for three months before conception.> > > *> > >> > > *Further, how do you see the separation from family that Sri Rama> > > experienced if Surya is not in the first/seventh from Lagna/AL and> > > either exalted/debilitated. Sri Tathagatha avatara had to experience> > the> > > same karma when he left his family to renounce, and he also had this> > > combination in Aries for cancer lagna. Difference was that Arudha lagna> > > was in Libra. Also see Jiddu Krishnamurty's chart for this yoga.*> > > /> > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the> > > term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata> > > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great> > > devotion to Truth.> > >> > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i> > > think she also has Sun in 9th:--))> > > /> > >> > > *Visti: I'm not sure we can use this as an example of 'love for> > dharma'.> > > Please give a real dictum for this otherwise we are just inventing new> > > principles.> > > To me there is no doubt that Sri Rama was born with Sun in Aries in> > > arudha lagna, and further in Deva Shastyamsa. Therefore the tradition> > > teaches the relevance of Sri Rama's lagna nakshatra vs. the chandra> > > nakshatra in defining the Janma nakshatra.> > > *> > >> > > Looking forward to your reply.> > >> > > Yours sincerely,> > >> > > --> > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > email: visti@ <visti@> > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > >> > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:> > > >> > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > >> > > > Dear Visti,> > > >> > > > Namaste.> > > >> > > > Thanks for your response and as usual it's very thought provoking.> > > >> > > > Coming to Bharata's birth...Rama's was born in Karka lagna and> > > > Bharata was born in Meena lagna, vide Valmiki. That means around 15> > > > hours from Rama's birth. If Rama was born at noon, then counting> > > > forward it would be early hours of next day, in Pushyami, that> > > > Bharata would be born. On the next day morning, Lakshmana and> > > > Shatrughna were born in Aasresha nakshatra...which is perfectly> > > > feasible.> > > >> > > > So, I am at a loss to understand about the 40 hour calculation to> > > > Bharata's birth!! honestly, i tried to understand...you must have> > > > meant around 40 hours to Lakshmana and shatrughna's birth. If I have> > > > overlooked something, please let me know, so that i can correct> > > > myself.> > > >> > >> > > >> > > > 2nd lord in martian houses and associated with Mars and Saturn,> > > > without any benefic intervention, is the classic "asatyavaadi yoga"...> > > > (ref: B.V. Raman's 300 combinations). Sun's exaltation could very> > > > well give brilliant speech, but not truthful speech.> > > >> > > > Further, talking about 9th lord being Abhijit rasi in from Sun for> > > > Vishnu avatars ...I think it's there only in Sri Krishna's chart. You> > > > can't find it in Sri Chaitanya's chart.> > > >> > > > Whereas from Sri Krishna's, Sri Chaitanya's and Sri Ramakrishna> > > > Paramahamsa's (I consider him a vishnu avatar, with moon in lagna,> > > > lagna lord in Devaloka amsa in 9H, 9th lord exalted etc) charts,> > > > you'd find that Sun and Jupiter jointly influence the 9th house by> > > > placement, lordship or rasi/graha drishti. As Karakas for dharma,> > > > their influence is pivotal for Dharma sthana. If in Rama's chart Sun> > > > is in aries, I don't think this condition is fulfilled.> > > >> > > > Btw, Sun in 9H also has digbala..i think that's what Guruji said in> > > > Almora.> > > >> > > > The pitri dosha could be caused by the nodal aspects on the 9th> > > > house. The dosha was caused by Dasaratha's mistake...and no one else> > > > can cause mistakes like the nodes.> > > >> > > > Visti, I am sure you very well know that five planets in> > > > own/exaltation is a yoga for a King of Kings! 2nd lord need not be in> > > > 10H for this to happen:--))> > > >> > > > Sri Rama is definitely Surya avatara...as Narasimha says Sun could be> > > > the AK. If you draw the adhana chakra, perhaps you'd find Sun> > > > exalted in Aries, because valmiki said that Sri Rama was born in the> > > > 12th month after conception.> > > >> > > > As for paraakrama, you'd find sage valmiki had repeatedly used the> > > > term "Satya ParaakramaH" to describe Sri Rama (he also called Bharata> > > > the same some times). Sri Rama's valour stemmed from His great> > > > devotion to Truth.> > > >> > > > If you want to know about love for Dharma...better ask Branka, i> > > > think she also has Sun in 9th:--))> > > >> > > > Regards,> > > > Lakshmi> > > >> > > > sohamsa <sohamsa%40> > > <sohamsa%40>,> > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > >> > > > > Dear Lakshmi, Namaskar> > > > > The only reference to 'the next day', i.e. the following sunrise,> > > > comes> > > > > with the description of Laxman and Satrughna's birth. From this the> > > > > assumption is that Bharata was born on the same day of Sri Rama.> > > > >> > > > > Astronomically, If we apply your assumption and say that Bharat was> > > > born> > > > > the day after Rama, then 24+20 hours would pass. 20 hours is a> > > > maximum> > > > > which we could shorten down to 16 hours, therefore a total of 40> > > > hours> > > > > from Rama's birth to Bharata's. Even at the Moons slowest speed of> > > > 10> > > > > degrees, 20 minutes the Moon would have traversed 17 degrees. Even> > > > if> > > > > the Moon had been at the beginning of Cancer this movement of 17> > > > degrees> > > > > would put it straight into Asleesha nakshatra, and thats using the> > > > > _slowest motion_ and _shortest possible time_ from Cancer to Pisces> > > > (8> > > > > signs * 2 hours=16 hours).> > > > > So even that is not possible to justify Bharata's birth in Pushya> > > > nakshatra.> > > > > In fact Bharata born on the same day as Rama, only a few hours> > > > after is> > > > > the best possible justification of his birth in Pushya nakshatra> > > > with> > > > > Pisces lagna.> > > > >> > > > > But, the following sunrise is only a few hours after when Laxman> > > > and> > > > > Satrughna are born, and being that the following sunrise had Moon> > > > in> > > > > Aslesha nakshatra it is unlikely that Moon was in Pushya during> > > > Rama's> > > > > birth to begin with.> > > > >> > > > > Astrologically an exalted second lord would have given just as nice> > > > > speech as the second lord joined exalted Venus. Yet, i find more> > > > > importantly that if we are indeed speaking of a Vishnu avatara's> > > > chart> > > > > then the ninth lord must be placed in the abhijit rasi from the Sun.> > > > > That is, ninth lord Jupiter must be placed in the fourth from the> > > > Sun.> > > > > Here Jupiter receives digbala and is also showing his major karma> > > > as> > > > > this is the abhijit rasi.> > > > >> > > > > Similarly in Sri Krishna's chart, Saturn is the ninth lord and> > > > receives> > > > > digbala in the seventh, where it is also in the fourth from the Sun> > > > and> > > > > therefore in Abhijit rasi... surely a dharma-avatara.> > > > >> > > > > How do you see 'love for dharma' in a chart?> > > > >> > > > > More so, with Sun in Pisces, what happened to the pitri-dosha which> > > > > caused his father the great sorrow of having to send him away?> > > > Dasaratha> > > > > earned this bad karma due to having killed the son of another> > > > father.> > > > >> > > > > There are a few more important factors, such as simhasansa yoga> > > > (second> > > > > lord in tenth), without which he would not become the king of> > > > Ayodhya.> > > > > Rajya sambandha yoga of Rahu associated with that Sun in the tenth> > > > > giving political power which is required for kings and politicians> > > > alike.> > > > >> > > > > Now, without Sun exalted on the arudha lagna, the lord Mars would> > > > surely> > > > > take over and all those martian qualities which you wanted to avoid> > > > in> > > > > Lord Rama would have become ever more prominent. Then where is the> > > > > greatness of the Surya-vamsa?> > > > >> > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > >> > > > > --> > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:> > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > >> > > > > b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks for patiently forwarding your mail to Narasimha. It is> > > > indeed> > > > > > true that Valmiki said that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born at> > > > > > sunrise. But did he say that Lakshmana and Shatrughna were born on> > > > > > the very next day? I have not come across any such observation in> > > > > > Valmiki Ramayan, but ofcourse I could have missed it out.> > > > > >> > > > > > The way I look at it, Bharata was born on the next day and> > > > Lakshmana> > > > > > and Shatrughna were born at Sunrise on 3rd day....I had checked> > > > and> > > > > > the Moon would very much be in Aaslesha at that time.> > > > > >> > > > > > I also feel that Sun in Pisces justifies Sri Rama's sweet & > > > > sattwik> > > > > > talk and great adherence to Truth, because the 2nd lord in such> > > > > > scenario, would be disposited and aspected by Jupiter and is> > > > conjunct> > > > > > Mercury and Venus. Sun in aries, though exalted, would be in> > > > Martian> > > > > > sign, powerfully aspected by Mars and Saturn...without any benefic> > > > > > intervention whatsoever...so speech is bound to be far more fiery> > > > and> > > > > > aggressive.> > > > > >> > > > > > Sun in 9th also indicates His overwhelming love for Dharma. The> > > > > > conjunction of Venus, the 4th Lord, would only deepen it further.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > Lakshmi> > > > > >> > > > > > sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%40>> > > > <sohamsa%> > > > 40>,> > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ??? ??? ??????> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Narasimha, Namaskar> > > > > > > Satyacharya uses the lagna nakshatra for much more than starting> > > > > > > Vimshottari dasa.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Astronomical calculations*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > When describing the birth of Laxman and Satrughna, they are> > > > said to> > > > > > be> > > > > > > born on the sunrise of the next day (abhyudite ravau) from Ramas> > > > > > birth.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Assuming that Moon was in fact placed in Punarvasu nakshatra, it> > > > > > means> > > > > > > that the Moon would have traversed from the end of Punarvasu> > > > until> > > > > > the> > > > > > > beginning of Asleesha in approximately 18-20 hours, i.e. this is> > > > > > the> > > > > > > maximum time from beginning of Cancer Lagna till the end of> > > > Pisces> > > > > > lagna.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The moon at its perihelion will traverse approximately 15> > > > degrees> > > > > > in 24> > > > > > > hours, i.e. this is the fastest speed possible. Therefore after> > > > the> > > > > > > maximum of 20 hours (which is unlikely) the Moon would have> > > > > > traversed> > > > > > > 12 degrees 30 minutes thereby barely covering Pushya nakshatra.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In light of this it is highly unlikely that Rama's nakshatra is> > > > > > > punarvasu nakshatra. What do you say?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Looking forward to your reply.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > --> > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:> > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Narasimha Rao wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Visti,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The verse mentions the tithi and nakshatra (panchanga> > > > elements).> > > > > > > > Valmiki mentions Punarvasu as the nakshatra of Rama, Pushya> > > > as the> > > > > > > > nakshatra of Bharata and Asresha as the nakshatra of> > > > Lakshmana and> > > > > > > > Satrughna. To say that one of them is lagna nakshatra and> > > > others> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > Moon's nakshatras seems far-fetched to me.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > When mentioning someone's nakshatra, the standard practice is> > > > to> > > > > > > > mention Moon's nakshatra. I have never seen anybody's lagna> > > > > > nakshatra> > > > > > > > mentioned as one's nakshatra in any other scripture.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > If lagna is stronger than Moon, taking lagna as the seed in> > > > > > certain> > > > > > > > dasas is fine. But you don't mention the lagna nakshatra as> > > > the> > > > > > > > person's nakshatra. Moreover, if Valmiki did that, he would> > > > have> > > > > > > > explicitly mentioned it instead of just saying "born on> > > > Navami in> > > > > > > > Punarvasu nakshatra". He did not even indicate clearly that> > > > Sun> > > > > > is in> > > > > > > > Aries. How can he expect you to guess that Sun is in Aries and> > > > > > hence> > > > > > > > conclude that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and hence conclude> > > > that> > > > > > > > Punarvasu must be the lagna nakshatra?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Nothing that Valmiki wrote binds Sun to Aries. Sun can be at> > > > the> > > > > > end> > > > > > > > of Pisces and be atma karaka, while Jupiter, Mars, Saturn and> > > > > > nodes> > > > > > > > are in exaltation.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > Narasimha> > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > > Homam manual and audio: > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>> > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org/homam>>>>> > > > > > > > Spirituality: > > <>> > > > > <>>> > > > > > > <>> > > > > <>>>> > > > > > > > > <>> > > > > <>>> > > > > > > <>> > > > > <>>>>> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):> > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>>> > > > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>> > > > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>> > > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > <http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net>>>>> > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):> > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>> > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>> > > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > > <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org <http://www.VedicAstrologer.org>>>>> > > > > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:> > > > http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>>> > > > > > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>> > > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > <http://www.SriJagannath.org <http://www.SriJagannath.org>>>>> > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > sohamsa > > <sohamsa%40>> > > > <sohamsa%40> <sohamsa%> > > > 40>> > > > > > <sohamsa%> > > > > > 40>,> > > > > > > > Visti Larsen <visti@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > हरà¥++ राम à¤.à¥fषà¥?ण॥> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, Namaskar> > > > > > > > > Your absolutely correct that Moon cannot be in Punarvasu> > > > during> > > > > > > > Sukla> > > > > > > > > Navami IF Sun is in Aries.> > > > > > > > > Now, the tradition uses this example to prove the slokas of> > > > > > > > Satyacharya.> > > > > > > > > I.e. the nakshatra of birth depends among the stronger> > > > between> > > > > > Moon> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > Lagna. You can refer to Satya Jatakam for more information> > > > on> > > > > > this.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This would likely put the Moon in Pushya or Asleesha> > > > nakshatra> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > actuality, and instead the reference is to the Lagna-> > > > nakshatra> > > > > > > > being> > > > > > > > > Punarvasu for Rama. This is justified being that Lagna in> > > > > > Cancer in> > > > > > > > > Punarvasu would make it Vargottama and therefore stronger> > > > than> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > Moon.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This is further substantiated being that on the next day the> > > > > > Moon> > > > > > > > had> > > > > > > > > actually entered Asleesha nakshatra during which Lakshman> > > > was> > > > > > born.> > > > > > > > > Therefore unless the Moon moved unusually fast during that> > > > time> > > > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > Punarvasu to Asleesha, the Moon was likely in Pushya during> > > > Sri> > > > > > > > Rama's> > > > > > > > > birth.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hope this helps.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yours sincerely,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > > Visti Larsen - SJC Guru> > > > > > > > > Jaimini SJC - Denmark> > > > > > > > > email: visti@ <visti@>> > > > > > > > > For consultations, free mp3's and articles visit:> > > > > > > > http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>> > > > > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> <http://srigaruda.com > > <http://srigaruda.com>>>> > > > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com> > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>> > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>> > > > <http://srigaruda.com <http://srigaruda.com>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear all,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few> > > > > > > > days. I> > > > > > > > > > am giving below the slokas connected with> > > > > > > > > > the birth :> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH |> > > > > > > > > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-> > > > 8> > > > > > > > > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu |> > > > > > > > > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9> > > > > > > > > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam |> > > > > > > > > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-> > > > 10> > > > > > > > > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam |> > > > > > > > > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam> > > > || 1-> > > > > > 18-11> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on> > > > > > completion;> > > > > > > > > > R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by;> > > > > > tataH=> > > > > > > > > > then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre> > > > naavamike> > > > > > > > tithau=> > > > > > > > > > chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi> > > > > > daivatye=> > > > > > > > star> > > > > > > > > > of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi;> > > > panchasu> > > > > > > > graheSu> > > > > > > > > > swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own,> > > > highest,> > > > > > > > > > positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH> > > > > > > > indunaa> > > > > > > > > > saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along> > > > > > with;> > > > > > > > pra> > > > > > > > > > udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime> > > > �> > > > > > > > abhijit lagna;> > > > > > > > > > kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord> > > > > > [Vishnu];> > > > > > > > > > sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya> > > > > > lakshana> > > > > > > > > > samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH=> > > > Vishnu's;> > > > > > > > artham=> > > > > > > > > > epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly> > > > > > blessed> > > > > > > > one;> > > > > > > > > > ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita> > > > > > aksham=> > > > > > > > > > lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta> > > > oSTam=> > > > > > > > roseate,> > > > > > > > > > lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as;> > > > > > putram=> > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > son; ajanayat= gave birth.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of> > > > Navami> > > > > > > > > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra> > > > > > > > > > 3. The lagna is Cancer> > > > > > > > > > 4. Moon is in lagna> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The following two points are to be discussed.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be> > > > > > > > vakpati. Is> > > > > > > > > > it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since> > > > Mercury> > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > > > not be with Moon on a Navami day.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa> > > > (own) or> > > > > > > > > > uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that> > > > there> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > five> > > > > > > > > > planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular> > > > > > refrain> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and> > > > > > Saturn.> > > > > > > > > > While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > three> > > > > > > > > > planets places can be fixed only by discussion> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in> > > > > > cancer> > > > > > > > on a> > > > > > > > > > navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be> > > > more> > > > > > than> > > > > > > > 108> > > > > > > > > > degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to> > > > pisces.> > > > > > > > Thus,> > > > > > > > > > the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua,> > > > > > pisces> > > > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > > aries.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions> > > > after> > > > > > > > hearing> > > > > > > > > > from all of you.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > with best regards,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > kishore patnaik> > > > > > > > > > 98492 70729> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear all, It is a matter of our merits that have been accumulated during our earlier births that we are spending this Diwali in the chant of Rama, rather than wasting our time otherwise. I wish everyone on the group a merry and a holy Diwali. Srimad Ramayana is a depository of several yogic and cosmic secrets. For eg., Sree Sundara Kanda is directly interpreted as the search of a yogi for the Kundalini downtrodden from Sahasrara to Muladhara. In fact, when I have raised the question, I have expected the Likes of PVR to search for an answer in that angle too,. Now, coming back to astrology, I always wondered why Valmiki had made so much out of the planetary positions of Rama when all the four brothers have shared the same D1, with Bharata's lagna being 9 houses away from others, a watery and shubha sthana nevertheless. More poignantly, shatrughan has shared the same D1 yet, he enjoyed a normal and smooth life, with some victories (such as over Ilasura) in his credit, as against the turbulent life that Rama has suffered. I think the secret lies in the Divisional charts. It is needless to point out that Moon of Sri Rama enjoys a Vargottama. As Visti has pointed out that it is quite possible that moon is at the very end of 4th pada of the asterism and this will make the Sun being in the last pada of Pisces(possibly) This will make the sun also vargottama. Now, sun must be betwen 27-30 degrees of the pisces, which will take the lagna to complete the same in 12 minutes. The remaining lagnas of Aries, Tarurus and Gemini can be complete in almost 6 hours - not withstanding the 12 minutes above- making the abhihjt lagna a possibility. In such an event , the lagna also falls in the first pada of Cancer, which will make lagna also vargottama. Now, I leave to the Group to discuss further if I am missing something. regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Dear all, Kindly contact on my private mail if any one is working in TTD, Thirumala. regards, Kishore patnaik 9849270729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Dear all, Kindly contact on my private mail if any one is working in TTD, Thirumala. regards, Kishore patnaik 9849270729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Dear all, Kindly let me know if any one is working in TTD, Thirumala. best regards, Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 DEAR MEMBERS happy deepawali. what is the problem my message is not posted. , " kishore patnaik " <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear all, > > It is a matter of our merits that have been accumulated during our earlier > births that we are spending this Diwali in the chant of Rama, rather than > wasting our time otherwise. I wish everyone on the group a merry and a holy > Diwali. > > Srimad Ramayana is a depository of several yogic and cosmic secrets. For > eg., Sree Sundara Kanda is directly interpreted as the search of a yogi for > the Kundalini downtrodden from Sahasrara to Muladhara. In fact, when I have > raised the question, I have expected the Likes of PVR to search for an > answer in that angle too,. > > Now, coming back to astrology, I always wondered why Valmiki had made so > much out of the planetary positions of Rama when all the four brothers have > shared the same D1, with Bharata's lagna being 9 houses away from others, a > watery and shubha sthana nevertheless. More poignantly, shatrughan has > shared the same D1 yet, he enjoyed a normal and smooth life, with some > victories (such as over Ilasura) in his credit, as against the turbulent > life that Rama has suffered. > > I think the secret lies in the Divisional charts. > > It is needless to point out that Moon of Sri Rama enjoys a Vargottama. As > Visti has pointed out that it is quite possible that moon is at the very end > of 4th pada of the asterism and this will make the Sun being in the last > pada of Pisces(possibly) This will make the sun also vargottama. > > Now, sun must be betwen 27-30 degrees of the pisces, which will take the > lagna to complete the same in 12 minutes. The remaining lagnas of Aries, > Tarurus and Gemini can be complete in almost 6 hours - not withstanding the > 12 minutes above- making the abhihjt lagna a possibility. In such an event > , the lagna also falls in the first pada of Cancer, which will make lagna > also vargottama. > > Now, I leave to the Group to discuss further if I am missing something. > > regards, > > Kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hi Everyone I was contemplating the chart of Rama and would suggest perhaps Benus should be in ninth in Pisces due to the nature of Asita's role in his life. In Taurus this would give a materialistic and sensuous wife, whilst in Pisces in ninth we have a devoted nature, and one who follows great dharma surely? I also suggest Surya in Aries as Rama is know for being the greatest of leaders in the field of dharma. Exalted Saturn's mutual aspect on exalted Sun gives the highest capability for spiritual austerity in life, and Sun's dispositor Mars gives him the warrior leader nature which enabled him to fight and defeat the rakshasa. Lord Rama is primarily a warrior leader, Sun in Aries bestows this capability better than sun in ninth house. he followed a dharmic path on his crusade to battle evil, and Jupiter as ruler of ninth exalted in first enables him to rise above misfortune due to his virtuous behaviour and conduct. he had right on his side, good nature support from heavenly realms, as well as bringing with him strong military ability from the past due to exalted Mars rulership of fifth house. The mutual aspect between Jupiter Mars, both exalted, link past with future ensuring his ability to predict outcomes and work with forces for good would help him defeat all ills for past present and future times. Also with ex Mars in seventh gives him military type friends, and with Gurus aspect these people are good advisers who also follow the law of dharma. Also exalted Sun mutual aspect on exalted Saturn shines out the enlightenment with which Rama fought on every level. It is a classic example of a life fighting the war against wrong, and the enlightenment to discern the difference between right and wrong when going into battle. We mut ot foget that Rama knew his destiny before birth and brought knowledge of it with him into this life. I think Jupiter will be exalted in many amsas as this great a great jyotish too. In the golden era they had no need of astrology because all enlightened souls already knew their destiny and lived in accord with it. We only use astrology in kali yuga due to liviing in discord with the laws of the universe. Why do we live in discord with the laws of the universe? The modern calendar itself is one of the influences away from right action. It is not helping us align with universal forces, but forces us to work with material goals in mind. It distracts from the greater harmonies of living in accord with universal law, and oppresses us by focussing our attention on worldly events and people. The calendar itself and the names of days are very much ways of reminding us of Romans rulers and Roman Gods, rather than allowing our sights to set higher on the heavens above,their cycles and our true relationship wth them, and our natural place in the scheme of things. Happy Divali everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Dear Kishore Please would you identify the source of your information? I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation in, and would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury? Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so Venus as ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is ruled by Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of Vak would therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely? Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the moon's motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing attention to an adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the expected usual distance between sun and moon on navami? Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a brilliant epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is during the creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku, king of the solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an allegory of the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think? best wishes Margaret Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM Horoscope of Lord Rama Dear all, I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am giving below the slokas connected with the birth : tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; R^ituuNaam SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= the son; ajanayat= gave birth. if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra 3. The lagna is Cancer 4. Moon is in lagna The following two points are to be discussed. 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be with Moon on a Navami day. 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or uccha(exalted) positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places can be fixed only by discussion 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a navami day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from all of you. with best regards, kishore patnaik 98492 70729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Dear Marg, Good to read your mail. Bad things first: 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day. This is so since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas Mercury can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72 degrees- thus venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign but here moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus. 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It starts at the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5 muhurtha. As every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in pisces and lagna falling in cancer Now, the good things: 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find a spark 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth, though trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to Heavens bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times. Please fill me up. Thnks for the mail once again,. Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 wrote: > > > Dear Kishore > Please would you identify the source of your information? > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation in, and > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury? > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so Venus as > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is ruled by > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of Vak would > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely? > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the moon's > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing attention to an > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the expected usual > distance between sun and moon on navami? > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a brilliant > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is during the > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku, king of the > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an allegory of > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think? > > best wishes > Margaret > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; > R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a > navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Hi Thank you for the reply Kishore but I would like to add another view. The translation you give seems to imply that it is not intended to convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could it not also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's vicinity as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in the vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't understand the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of Vak, sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any evidence for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics. Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the vedas had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as used in jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, rather than being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits of the source you quoted. Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it just telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the time Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was considered important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras were a later development. Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a modern practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is saying there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27: ''One of the original nakshatras had to be deleted. This could not be done easily as the Vedas are considered to be 'Apourusheya' and no liberties are allowed. hence perhaps Abhijit was declared to be an imaginary nakshatra meant only for phala'' This is another reason I am asking who and how old the source of your quote is? I am sure that by reading Rama yourself you will find out more than I can convey in an e mail, my version is translated by Rajagopalachari - kishore patnaik Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama Dear Marg, Good to read your mail. Bad things first: 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day. This is so since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas Mercury can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72 degrees- thus venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign but here moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus. 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It starts at the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5 muhurtha. As every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in pisces and lagna falling in cancer Now, the good things: 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find a spark 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth, though trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to Heavens bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times. Please fill me up. Thnks for the mail once again,. Kishore patnaik 98492 70729 On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 wrote: > > > Dear Kishore > Please would you identify the source of your information? > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation in, and > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury? > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so Venus as > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is ruled by > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of Vak would > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely? > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the moon's > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing attention to an > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the expected usual > distance between sun and moon on navami? > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a brilliant > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is during the > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku, king of the > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an allegory of > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think? > > best wishes > Margaret > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > Dear all, > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > giving below the slokas connected with > the birth : > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; > R^ituuNaam > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, Lord > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa bhaagam= > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta oSTam= > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; putram= > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > 3. The lagna is Cancer > 4. Moon is in lagna > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is it > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > with Moon on a Navami day. > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > uccha(exalted) > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are in > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While the > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets places > can be fixed only by discussion > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a > navami > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing from > all of you. > > with best regards, > > kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 Dear Marg, Good that someone is talking academics at last. where were you all these years? Offhand, I am afraid I may not be totally right in some of my replies and in any case, I am not comprehensive. 1. The translation you give seems to imply that it is not intended to convey that Vak's ruleC is positively conjunct the Moon. Could it not also imply that the lord of Vak is rising within the moon's vicinity as lagna rises in purnavasu, and this would then allow Venus in the vicinity as lord of Vak. I also understand that Vak is voice, not speech, so still feel that Venus is a contender, and don't understand the reasoning behind Jupiter being chosen to be significator of Vak, sorry if this upsets anyone, but I am willing to look at any evidence for your 'tradition' of Vak's lord from classics. My reply: Generally, Vakpati is Mercury. Vak stands for actually speech- the vagdevi being Mother Saraswati. Vakya is something said, a sentence. Avakya is speechless Vakti is to tell. A Vakta is one who speaks- orator. Ava vaktaram = please protect the speaker. However, vaak can also stand for language, voice, sound etc. The next contender, may be a poor one, is Jupiter being the signficator for knowledge. Venus, so far as i know, is not a contender for this significance. As I have said, Jupiter had to be chosen only cause it is virtually impossible for Mercury to be in Cancer along with moon on a navami day. 2.Is it being taken as inarguable that the zodiac had been fully defined and was being used in vedic times? I thought that the vedas had no reference to the formal divisions of the nakshatras as used in jyotish, and that the Moon merely pointing to Aditi alone, rather than being in any ''pada'' was the way the vedas would refer to constellational influences? This is why I asked about the merits of the source you quoted. Does the reading really imply moon is in purnavasu or is it just telling us that this is the constellation which is rising at the time Rama is born? It was the constellation rising which was considered important in vedic times surely, and divisions of nakshatras were a later development. My reply: Yes, you are right. During Vedic jyotisham days, we do not know how they have divided the zodiac space. Here, we take the moon to be in the 4th pada, thanks to the word Kataka used. If you want to place sun in Aries, you are only making it all the more impossible to advance moon into punarvasu's earlier padas. Many argue that there was no concept of rasi (zodiac signs) during vedic and ramayan times. But that may not true. Just as we all know the arudha system but hardly use it, Rsis of yore might have not relied on Rasi system much. In fact, Sachi, a vedic rsi gives a formula to find out the name of the year based on meena rasi. It is a different matter if you dismiss it as interpolation. 3.Abhijit being employed in the manner you suggest is also a modern practise surely.I'm quoting an expert astronomer here who is saying there were originally 28 nakshatras in vedic times, not 27: My reply: While there was the use of Abhijit, the more popular system of stars during Vedic times have employed only 27 stars. For eg., the Jaudhi system that enumerates stars and their adhi devatas mention only 27 stars. Abhijit was used for a specific purpose and otherwise, the count of stars is only 27. Btw, the abhijeet lagna has got nothing to do with abhijeet star. it is the specific time of every day which is supposed to be auspicious for any work to be done, irrespective of lagna ascending at that time and the gochara, the planetary positions. Hope I am clear, regards, kishore patnaik 98492 70729 > > > - > kishore patnaik > <%40> > Sunday, November 11, 2007 12:50 PM > Re: Horoscope of Lord Rama > > Dear Marg, > > Good to read your mail. > > Bad things first: > > 1. Mercury or Venus can not conjuct with moon on a navami day. This is so > since the sun maintains a distance of 96 degrees or more ,whereas Mercury > can not be more than 28 degrees away from sun and venus, 72 degrees- thus > venus has some chance if the moon is in the last degrees of a sign but > here > moon is in the very beginning of the cancer. Hence, it has got to be > jupiter. Btw, traditionally vakpati means mercury and not venus. > > 2. Abhijit lagna is that muhurtha during which the noon falls.It starts at > the end of 7.5 muhurtha after the sun rise and goes on till 8.5 muhurtha. > As > every other muhurtha, it lasts for 48 minutes. So, there is every > possibility that Rama was born in abhijeet muhurtha with sun in pisces and > lagna falling in cancer > > Now, the good things: > > 1. Great to see that you are now trying to interpret the cosmological > meaning of the slokas Please keep it up I will catch up if I find a spark > 2. I do not know about relation between trisanku and rama's birth, though > trisanku was indeed rama's ancestor and was tried to be sent to Heavens > bodily by Viswamitra who again played a big role during Rama's times. > Please fill me up. > > Thnks for the mail once again,. > > Kishore patnaik > 98492 70729 > > On 11/11/07, Marg <margie9 <margie9%40talktalk.net>> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kishore > > Please would you identify the source of your information? > > I have just re read the mail you sent with the interpretation in, and > > would like query that the ruler of Vak is Jupiter or Mercury? > > Vak is voice, voice is ruled by Taurus, Venus rules Taurus, so Venus as > > ruler of vak must be in first house with the Moon. > > Voice is different to speech , a third house affair, which is ruled by > > Mercury. One can have vak or voice, but no speech. Venus Lord of Vak > would > > therefore appear to be in Cancer in the ascendant surely? > > Also the reference to abhijijit is a little obscure. Isn't abhijit > > employed as an intercalary adjustment to align the sun with the moon's > > motion? If abhijit is being referred to is it directing attention to an > > adjustment to nomral motion being made,which might affect the expected > usual > > distance between sun and moon on navami? > > Out of interest sake I just re read the opening of Ramayana, a brilliant > > epic, and realised that the epoch at which Rama is born is during the > > creation of constellations in the southern path by Trisanku, king of the > > solar dynasty.In fact the birth of Ram and his brothers is an allegory > of > > the creation of Aries, Taurus and the twins Gemini don't you think? > > > > best wishes > > Margaret > > > > Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:24 AM > > Horoscope of Lord Rama > > > > Dear all, > > > > I am looking at the horoscope of Sri Rama for the past few days. I am > > giving below the slokas connected with > > the birth : > > > > tato yaj~ne samaapte tu R^itUnaam SaT samatyayuH | > > tataH ca dvaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau || 1-18-8 > > nakxatre aditi daivatye sva ucCha sa.nstheShu pa.nchasu | > > graheShu kar.hkaTe lagne vaakpataa i.ndunaa saha || 1-18-9 > > prodyamaane jagannaatham sarva loka namaskR^itam | > > kausalyaa ajanayat raamam sarva lakSaNa sa.myutam || 1-18-10 > > viSNoH ardham mahaabhaagam putram aixvaaku na.ndanam | > > lohitaaksham mahaabaahum rak{}ta oSTam du.ndubhi svanam || 1-18-11 > > > > 8, 9, 10, 11. tataH yaj~ne samaapte= then, ritual, on completion; > > R^ituuNaam > > SaT sam atyayuH= seasons, six, well, passed by; tataH= then; dvaadashe > > maase= in twelfth, month; chaitre naavamike tithau= chaitra month > > [April-May], ninth, day; nakshatre aditi daivatye= star of the day > > [punarvasu,] [whose presiding is] Aditi; panchasu graheSu swa uccha > > samstheshu= of five, planets, in their own, highest, positing; karkaTe > > lagne= in Cancer [of Zodiac]; vaak patiH indunaa saha= when Speech's, > Lord > > [Jupiter,] is [with] Moon, along with; pra udyamane= when raising � > > ascending, advancing daytime � abhijit lagna; kausalyaa= Queen Kausalya; > > jagat naatham= worlds', lord [Vishnu]; sarva loka namaskR^itam= by all, > > worlds, adored; divya lakshana samyutam= divine, attributes, along with; > > viSNoH= Vishnu's; artham= epitome of [not half of Vishnu]; mahaa > bhaagam= > > greatly blessed one; ikshwaaku nandanam= Ikshvaaku dynasty, delight of; > > lohita aksham= lotus-red, eyes; mahaa baahum= lengthy, armed; rakta > oSTam= > > roseate, lips; dundubhi svanam= drumbeat, voiced; raamam= Rama as; > putram= > > the son; ajanayat= gave birth. > > > > if you carefully look at this, the following are clear: > > > > 1. The birth occured in chaitra masa on the tithi of Navami > > 2. The birth occured in Punarvasu nakshatra > > 3. The lagna is Cancer > > 4. Moon is in lagna > > > > The following two points are to be discussed. > > > > 1. here, the planet with which moon is there is said to be vakpati. Is > it > > Mercury or Jupiter? Obviously, he is Jupiter since Mercury could not be > > with Moon on a Navami day. > > > > 2. The five planets mentioned here are either in swa (own) or > > uccha(exalted) > > positions. It should not be taken that there are five planets which are > in > > exaltation, which seems to be popular refrain > > > > 3. These five planets are Moon, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn. While > the > > sloka fixes the places of Moon and Jupiter, the other three planets > places > > can be fixed only by discussion > > > > 4. Clearly, Sun can not be in exaltation when Moon is in cancer on a > > navami > > day. The distance between moon and sun should be more than 108 degrees. > > hence, the place of sun also can be fixed to pisces. Thus, the place of > > mercury is to be bound by three rasis- aqua, pisces or aries. > > > > Hence, I would post my reasoning of planetary positions after hearing > from > > all of you. > > > > with best regards, > > > > kishore patnaik > > 98492 70729 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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