Guest guest Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Dear Learned Fraternity, Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac. Regards Amit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 Dear Amit ji, Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe in application of Tropical and viceversa. Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology. they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few weeks practise it can be done. regards/Bhaskar. , " amit.baid " <amit.baid wrote: > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac. > > Regards > > Amit > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Dear Bhaskar ji, First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that. Regards / Amit , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Amit ji, > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology. > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few > weeks practise it can be done. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > , " amit.baid " > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > Regards > > > > Amit > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Dear Amit ji, Sidereal is Indian system. Tropical is Western system. In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position of the planets in the sky as it is. In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). The above is in simple language. Both systems work well in hands of Experts. For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these. You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). Some good Books Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson An introduction to Astrology - William Lily All Books by Alan Leo. All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, first. And they are not Fat. You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, when sharing what one knows. regards/Bhaskar. , "amit.baid" <amit.baid wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that.> > Regards / Amit> > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both> > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe> > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors> > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these,> > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both> > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology.> > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj> > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and> > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations> > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few> > weeks practise it can be done.> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > , "amit.baid"> > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > >> > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and> > Tropical Zodiac.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Amit> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Dear Bhaskar ji, The thirst for knowledge actually increases when you try to quench it..... Thanks a ton for guidance. I guess the mail I have received is in unformatted text and hence I do not see which book is marked in Bold. May I request you to please number them and send it back. Can you please also suggest book on basic astronomy or a web link? So the actual position of planets is known by Tropical system. So which system one should follow? Tropical as it is / Sidereal by making adjustments or something in between? I am using Parashar Lite software. It gives " Bhava Sripati " ... is it the one based on Tropical? Please advise if one can see tropical horoscope in Parashar Lite. Regards / Amit , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > Dear Amit ji, > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > Tropical is Western system. > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position > of the planets in the sky as it is. > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the > Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > The above is in simple language. > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy > or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately > even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it > from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road > side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not > missing much by not having a formal training in these. > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in > your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student > of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > Some good Books > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > All Books by Alan Leo. > > All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. > > The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green > > Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) > > Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, > first. And they are not Fat. > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin > Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of > Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, > when sharing what one knows. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > , " amit.baid " > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and > Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at > all. I will learn that. > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > , " Bhaskar " > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont > believe > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological > authors > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on > these, > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of > both > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in > astrology. > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, > Raj > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > representations > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With > few > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " amit.baid " > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 Dear Amit ji, If You read my mail on the Group itself rather than in Your Inbox, you wills ee the Bold print. I do not use Parashar Lite. I use another Licensed softwrae which costs rs.15000- You can make any chart Tropical or Sidereal on the Jaganttah Hora. Just remove the ayansmha part from the J.Hora settings and you have the Sayana Chart. I have already provided you books on basic astronomy. That is enough for theoretical part. Now do not expect me to come to your home with all books, links and other such stuff please. Do some work yourself also. best wishes, Bhaskar. , " amit.baid " <amit.baid wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > The thirst for knowledge actually increases when you try to quench it..... Thanks a ton for guidance. > > I guess the mail I have received is in unformatted text and hence I do not see which book is marked in Bold. May I request you to please number them and send it back. > > Can you please also suggest book on basic astronomy or a web link? > > So the actual position of planets is known by Tropical system. So which system one should follow? Tropical as it is / Sidereal by making adjustments or something in between? > > I am using Parashar Lite software. It gives " Bhava Sripati " ... is it the one based on Tropical? Please advise if one can see tropical horoscope in Parashar Lite. > > Regards / Amit > > , " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position > > of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the > > Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy > > or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately > > even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it > > from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road > > side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not > > missing much by not having a formal training in these. > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in > > your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student > > of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > > > Some good Books > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > All Books by Alan Leo. > > > > All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. > > > > The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green > > > > Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) > > > > Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin > > Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of > > Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, > > when sharing what one knows. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , " amit.baid " > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and > > Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at > > all. I will learn that. > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > , " Bhaskar " > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont > > believe > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological > > authors > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on > > these, > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of > > both > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in > > astrology. > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, > > Raj > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > representations > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With > > few > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " amit.baid " > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Amitji just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude of planets. Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every year and is called Precession of equinox. Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth chart. I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. warm regards Amit Desai Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Dear Amit ji, Sidereal is Indian system. Tropical is Western system. In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position of the planets in the sky as it is. In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). The above is in simple language. Both systems work well in hands of Experts. For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these. You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). Some good Books Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson An introduction to Astrology - William Lily All Books by Alan Leo. All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, first. And they are not Fat. You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, when sharing what one knows. regards/Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" <amit.baid@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that.> > Regards / Amit> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both> > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe> > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors> > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these,> > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both> > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology.> > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj> > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and> > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations> > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few> > weeks practise it can be done.> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid"> > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > >> > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and> > Tropical Zodiac.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Amit> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Dear Amit-ji, To put it in simple language...... This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question, i.e., 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some reference point against which we can make this measurement. In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or tropic of cancer etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now if you are trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one problem will arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it slightly slips backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is approximately 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then again next year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find that it is slightly behind (by 50"). This precessional movement over the years has created enough difference between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of references'. Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to difference in opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 AD. Now they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & sidereal systems. 'hope it helps. regards Chakraborty On Behalf Of amit desaiFriday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Amitji just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude of planets. Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every year and is called Precession of equinox. Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth chart. I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. warm regards Amit Desai Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in> Sent: Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Dear Amit ji, Sidereal is Indian system. Tropical is Western system. In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position of the planets in the sky as it is. In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). The above is in simple language. Both systems work well in hands of Experts. For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these. You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). Some good Books Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson An introduction to Astrology - William Lily All Books by Alan Leo. All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, first. And they are not Fat. You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, when sharing what one knows. regards/Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" <amit.baid@.. .> wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar ji,> > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that.> > Regards / Amit> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both> > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe> > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors> > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these,> > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both> > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology.> > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj> > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and> > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations> > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few> > weeks practise it can be done.> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid"> > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > >> > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and> > Tropical Zodiac.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Amit> > >> >> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Dear Chakroborty ji and all, Thank You. Your explanations is good. This part I did not put out of fear that people will runaway if I put much technicals, and I want them to develop interest for further studies. Which is why I asked them to locate for videos on the Net and share it with us too, so that others can understand these concepts which are not understood just by theoretical presentations. best wishes, Bhaskar. , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote: > > Dear Amit-ji, > > To put it in simple language...... > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question, i.e., > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some reference > point against which we can make this measurement. > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or tropic of cancer > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now if you are > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one problem will > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it slightly slips > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is approximately > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then again next > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find that it is slightly > behind (by 50 " ). > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough difference > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of references'. > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to difference in > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 AD. Now > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & sidereal systems. > > 'hope it helps. > > regards > > Chakraborty > > ________________________________ > On Behalf Of amit desai > Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > Re: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > Amitji > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude of planets. > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " every year and is called Precession of equinox. > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth chart. > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > warm regards > > > Amit Desai > > > > ________________________________ > Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > > Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > Tropical is Western system. > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > The above is in simple language. > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these. > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > Some good Books > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > All Books by Alan Leo. > > All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. > > The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green > > Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) > > Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, first. And they are not Fat. > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, when sharing what one knows. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that. > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology. > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Dear Bhaskar-ji, Thanks a lot. regards Chakraborty On Behalf Of BhaskarFriday, April 09, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Dear Chakroborty ji and all,Thank You. Your explanations is good.This part I did not put out of fear that people will runaway if I putmuch technicals, and I want them to develop interest for furtherstudies.Which is why I asked them to locate for videos on the Net and share itwith us too, so that others can understand these concepts which are notunderstood just by theoretical presentations.best wishes,Bhaskar. , "Chakraborty, PL"<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Amit-ji,>> To put it in simple language......>> This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question,i.e.,> 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background>> In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need somereference> point against which we can make this measurement.>> In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator ortropic of cancer> etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'.>> In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Nowif you are> trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then oneproblem will> arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, itslightly slips> backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This isapproximately> 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...thenagain next> year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find thatit is slightly> behind (by 50").>> This precessional movement over the years has created enoughdifference> between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame ofreferences'.> Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due todifference in> opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point.>> Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197AD. Now> they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree.>> There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & sidereal systems.>> 'hope it helps.>> regards>> Chakraborty>> ________________________________> [ ] On Behalf Of amitdesai> Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM> > Re: Re: Sidereal and TropicalZodiac>>>> Amitji> just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said>> in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitudeof planets.> Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cosAries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year.The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year.> The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every yearand is called Precession of equinox.> Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here isfixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession ofequinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance movedso far is called Ayanamsa which is> 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010.> This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet andhouse cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will bedifferent by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birthchart.> I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system.>> warm regards>>> Amit Desai>>>> ________________________________> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish > Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM> Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac>>>> Dear Amit ji,>> Sidereal is Indian system.>> Tropical is Western system.>> In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positionsand then predict as to what results would be obtianed .>> In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actualposition of the planets in the sky as it is.>> In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times inthe Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead).>> The above is in simple language.>> Both systems work well in hands of Experts.>> For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books onAstronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search.Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renownedinstitution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted tostudents is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell youthat you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these.>> You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested inlearning the Western system. You must also learn to make chartsmanually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not gowaste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change inyour statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious studentof Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart).>> Some good Books>> Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D.>> The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal>> The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial>> Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B.>> Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson>> An introduction to Astrology - William Lily>> All Books by Alan Leo.>> All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.>> The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green>> Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)>> Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub).>> The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with,first. And they are not Fat.>> You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basicConcepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readinginBooks and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities ofAstrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these.>> remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back,Never, when sharing what one knows.>> regards/Bhaskar.>>>> ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid"amit.baid@ .> wrote:> >> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> >> > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropicaland Sidereal and shifting of equinox.> >> > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problemat all. I will learn that.> >> > Regards / Amit> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar"bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Amit ji,> > >> > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both> > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dontbelieve> > > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > >> > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrologicalauthors> > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book onthese,> > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in applicationof both> > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach inastrology.> > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, JapaYoga, Raj> > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > >> > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and> > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolicrepresentations> > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. Withfew> > > weeks practise it can be done.> > >> > > regards/Bhaskar.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid"> > > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > > >> > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and> > > Tropical Zodiac.> > > >> > > > Regards> > > >> > > > Amit> > > >> > >> >>>>> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi,India. The information contained in this electronic message and anyattachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of theaddressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privilegedinformation. If you are not the intended recipient, you should notdisseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the senderimmediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.>This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Dear Amit JI, //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra chakra (start from ashwini)........ Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra chakra...... Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right now....while Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are considered as not moving frame of reference)... Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in which Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base prediction required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric trend) ------------------ Regards, Devisingh Chakraborty, PL wrote: Dear Amit-ji, To put it in simple language...... This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question, i.e., 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some reference point against which we can make this measurement. In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or tropic of cancer etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now if you are trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one problem will arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it slightly slips backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is approximately 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then again next year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find that it is slightly behind (by 50"). This precessional movement over the years has created enough difference between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of references'. Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to difference in opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 AD. Now they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & sidereal systems. 'hope it helps. regards Chakraborty On Behalf Of amit desai Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM Re: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Amitji just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude of planets. Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every year and is called Precession of equinox. Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth chart. I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. warm regards Amit Desai Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish (AT) (DOT) co.in> Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM Subject: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac Dear Amit ji, Sidereal is Indian system. Tropical is Western system. In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual position of the planets in the sky as it is. In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). The above is in simple language. Both systems work well in hands of Experts. For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training in these. You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). Some good Books Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson An introduction to Astrology - William Lily All Books by Alan Leo. All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay. The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.) Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub). The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, first. And they are not Fat. You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when you get these. remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, Never, when sharing what one knows. regards/Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" <amit.baid@.. .> wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem at all. I will learn that. > > Regards / Amit > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application of both > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in astrology. > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa Yoga, Raj > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic representations > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Dear Devisingh ji, Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should corroborate with the zodiac sign. I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out to be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD which explains these fundamentals. Regards / Amit , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote: > > Dear Amit JI, > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra chakra > (start from ashwini)........ > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra chakra...... > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right now....while > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are considered > as not moving frame of reference)... > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in which > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base prediction > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric trend) > > ------------------ > Regards, > Devisingh > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question, i.e., > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some > > reference > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > tropic of cancer > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now > > if you are > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > problem will > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it > > slightly slips > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > approximately > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then > > again next > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find > > that it is slightly > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough difference > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of > > references'. > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > difference in > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 > > AD. Now > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & > > sidereal systems. > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > regards > > > > Chakraborty > > > > ------ > > ** > > *On Behalf Of *amit > > desai > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > Amitji > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude > > of planets. > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " every year > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth > > chart. > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > warm regards > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > ------ > > ** Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish > > *To:* > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training > > in these. > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub).* > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when > > you get these. > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application > > of both > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in > > astrology. > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa > > Yoga, Raj > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > representations > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Dear Amit JI, //Aren't both interrelated?// It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know Nakshatra of planet..... ------------------ Regards, Devisingh amit.baid wrote: Dear Devisingh ji, Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should corroborate with the zodiac sign. I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out to be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was produced by "History Channel". Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD which explains these fundamentals. Regards / Amit , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote: > > Dear Amit JI, > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra chakra > (start from ashwini)........ > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra chakra...... > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right now....while > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are considered > as not moving frame of reference)... > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in which > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base prediction > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric trend) > > ------------------ > Regards, > Devisingh > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single question, i.e., > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some > > reference > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > tropic of cancer > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now > > if you are > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > problem will > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it > > slightly slips > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > approximately > > 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then > > again next > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find > > that it is slightly > > behind (by 50"). > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough difference > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of > > references'. > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > difference in > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 > > AD. Now > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & > > sidereal systems. > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > regards > > > > Chakraborty > > > > ------------------------- > > ** > > *On Behalf Of *amit > > desai > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > *To:* > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > Amitji > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude > > of planets. > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. > > The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every year > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth > > chart. > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > warm regards > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > ** Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish > > *To:* > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal training > > in these. > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub).* > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding basic > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us when > > you get these. > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Bhaskar" > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont believe > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological authors > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book on these, > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application > > of both > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in > > astrology. > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa > > Yoga, Raj > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > representations > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. With few > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "amit.baid" > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like the Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name by the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the skies. regards/Bhaskar. , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote: > > Dear Amit JI, > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know Nakshatra of > planet..... > > ------------------ > Regards, > Devisingh > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out to > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra > > chakra > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra chakra...... > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > now....while > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are considered > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in which > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base prediction > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric trend) > > > > > > ------------------ > > > Regards, > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > question, i.e., > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need some > > > > reference > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed stars. Now > > > > if you are > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > > > problem will > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the Sun, it > > > > slightly slips > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > > > approximately > > > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some point...then > > > > again next > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will find > > > > that it is slightly > > > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > difference > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame of > > > > references'. > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > > > difference in > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference point. > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or 197 > > > > AD. Now > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the Tropical & > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > ** > > <%40> > > > > [ > > <%40>] *On Behalf Of *amit > > > > desai > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical longitude > > > > of planets. > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology b'cos > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every year. > > > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " every year > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here is > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession of > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the distance > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet and > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will be > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical birth > > > > chart. > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary positions > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times in > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign ahead). > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a renowned > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge imparted > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let me > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal > > training > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested in > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will not go > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree change > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a serious > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own Chart). > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan Pub).* > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin with, > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding > > basic > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with us > > when > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between Tropical > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no problem > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of both > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally dont > > believe > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign astrological > > authors > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book > > on these, > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in application > > > > of both > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach in > > > > astrology. > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, Japa > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to read and > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > representations > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about this. > > With few > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message and > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on average the tropical is more " scientific " as opposed to religious or mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather effect) was the first to use tropical. , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish wrote: > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like the > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name by > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > skies. > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > , devisigh > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know Nakshatra > of > > planet..... > > > > ------------------ > > Regards, > > Devisingh > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out > to > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra > > > chakra > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > chakra...... > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > now....while > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > considered > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > which > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > prediction > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric > trend) > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > Regards, > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > question, i.e., > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need > some > > > > > reference > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > stars. Now > > > > > if you are > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > > > > problem will > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the > Sun, it > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > > > > approximately > > > > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > point...then > > > > > again next > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > find > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > difference > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame > of > > > > > references'. > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > > > > difference in > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > point. > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or > 197 > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > Tropical & > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > ** > > > <%40> > > > > > [ > > > <%40>] *On Behalf Of > *amit > > > > > desai > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > *To:* > > > <%40> > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > longitude > > > > > of planets. > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > b'cos > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every > year. > > > > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " every > year > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here > is > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession > of > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > distance > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet > and > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will > be > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical > birth > > > > > chart. > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > *To:* > > > <%40> > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > positions > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times > in > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > renowned > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > imparted > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let > me > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal > > > training > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested > in > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will > not go > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree > change > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > serious > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > with, > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding > > > basic > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with > us > > > when > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > Tropical > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > problem > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of > both > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally > dont > > > believe > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > astrological > > > authors > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book > > > on these, > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > application > > > > > of both > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach > in > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > Japa > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to > read and > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > representations > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > this. > > > With few > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal > and > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message > and > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use > of > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and > any > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done. , " cjjohans " <cjjohans wrote: > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on average the tropical is more " scientific " as opposed to religious or mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather effect) was the first to use tropical. > > > , " Bhaskar " bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like the > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name by > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > > skies. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , devisigh > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know Nakshatra > > of > > > planet..... > > > > > > ------------------ > > > Regards, > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out > > to > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > > produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD > > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra > > > > chakra > > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > > chakra...... > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > > now....while > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > > considered > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > > which > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > > prediction > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric > > trend) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > > question, i.e., > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need > > some > > > > > > reference > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > > stars. Now > > > > > > if you are > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > > > > > problem will > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the > > Sun, it > > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > > point...then > > > > > > again next > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > > find > > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > > difference > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame > > of > > > > > > references'. > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > > > > > difference in > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or > > 197 > > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > > Tropical & > > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > ** > > > > <%40> > > > > > > [ > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf Of > > *amit > > > > > > desai > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40> > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > > longitude > > > > > > of planets. > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > > b'cos > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every > > year. > > > > > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " every > > year > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here > > is > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession > > of > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > > distance > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet > > and > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will > > be > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical > > birth > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40> > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical > > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > > positions > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times > > in > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign > > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > > renowned > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > > imparted > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let > > me > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal > > > > training > > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested > > in > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will > > not go > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree > > change > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > > serious > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan > > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > > with, > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding > > > > basic > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with > > us > > > > when > > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " amit.baid " > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > > Tropical > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > > problem > > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Bhaskar " > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of > > both > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally > > dont > > > > believe > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > > astrological > > > > authors > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book > > > > on these, > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > > application > > > > > > of both > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach > > in > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > > Japa > > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to > > read and > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > > representations > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > > this. > > > > With few > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal > > and > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message > > and > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use > > of > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > notify > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and > > any > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Dear cjjohans JI, I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or not....at least people can express what they have learned so far...thanks for reply to make thread inline western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are part of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are absurd... western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with Nakshatra.... Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all systems that tells why they are working since long time.... Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference again there..... ------------------ Regards, Devisingh Bhaskar wrote: I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done. , "cjjohans" <cjjohans wrote: > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on average the tropical is more "scientific" as opposed to religious or mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather effect) was the first to use tropical. > > > , "Bhaskar" bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like the > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name by > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > > skies. > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > , devisigh > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know Nakshatra > > of > > > planet..... > > > > > > ------------------ > > > Regards, > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star should > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned out > > to > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > > produced by "History Channel". Can anybody suggest some other DVD/CD > > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from aries..)2)nakshatra > > > > chakra > > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > > chakra...... > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > > now....while > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > > considered > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > > which > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > > prediction > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be Tantric > > trend) > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > > question, i.e., > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we need > > some > > > > > > reference > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches equator or > > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > > stars. Now > > > > > > if you are > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then one > > > > > > problem will > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round the > > Sun, it > > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This is > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > > point...then > > > > > > again next > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > > find > > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > > behind (by 50"). > > > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > > difference > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different 'frame > > of > > > > > > references'. > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist due to > > > > > > difference in > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD or > > 197 > > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > > Tropical & > > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > ** > > > > <%40> > > > > > > [ > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf Of > > *amit > > > > > > desai > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40> > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > > longitude > > > > > > of planets. > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > > b'cos > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes every > > year. > > > > > > The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" every > > year > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point here > > is > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This precession > > of > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > > distance > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > > 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every planet > > and > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree will > > be > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to Tropical > > birth > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 system. > > > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40> > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and Tropical > > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > > positions > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the actual > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% times > > in > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One sign > > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books on > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in search. > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > > renowned > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > > imparted > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so let > > me > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a formal > > > > training > > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are interested > > in > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make charts > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work will > > not go > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 Degree > > change > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > > serious > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor (Ranjan > > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > > with, > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for understanding > > > > basic > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through Theory > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools and > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share with > > us > > > > when > > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold back, > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com, "amit.baid" > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > > Tropical > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > > problem > > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com, "Bhaskar" > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages of > > both > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people normally > > dont > > > > believe > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > > astrological > > > > authors > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a book > > > > on these, > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > > application > > > > > > of both > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of approach > > in > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > > Japa > > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But to > > read and > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > > representations > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > > this. > > > > With few > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > "amit.baid" > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal > > and > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic message > > and > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use > > of > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > notify > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and > > any > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 // I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or not....at least people can express what they have learned so far...thanks for reply to make thread inline // Your reply is apparently specifically pointed at me. So let me explain. I am not here to give lessons on Western astrology to you as you ahve been demanding me for Indian astrology too, since few months. You are not paying me money to do this. I am not anybody's servant to express what I have learnt. Secondly this is a Group of Ancinet Indian astrology. Once in a while reference can be made to wetsern astrological concepts, but cannot put a full fledged discussion ere. The Moderators will be justified in throwing me out from here if they do so and I will not be eligible to register a complaint too for part has been specified clealry in the Forum Home Page. . // western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are part of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are absurd...// But who has said that this wheel is superior and that inferior ?//western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with Nakshatra....// Study well before making such comments.//Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all systems that tells why they are working since long time....Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference again there.....// What gibberish is this. Un-understandable what you are talking, what is there in your mind and what you are expressing. , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote:>> Dear cjjohans JI,> > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline> > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all > about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are part > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are > absurd...> > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with > Nakshatra....> > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all > systems that tells why they are working since long time....> > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > again there.....> > ------------------> Regards,> Devisingh> > > Bhaskar wrote:> > > >> >> > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they> > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also> > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy> > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda> > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done> > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done.> >> > > > <%40>, "cjjohans"> > cjjohans@ wrote:> > >> > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on> > average the tropical is more "scientific" as opposed to religious or> > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather> > effect) was the first to use tropical.> > >> > >> > > > > <%40>, "Bhaskar"> > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like> > the> > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both> > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name> > by> > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the> > > > skies.> > > >> > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > <%40>, devisigh> > > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Amit JI,> > > > >> > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?//> > > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets> > > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for> > > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know> > Nakshatra> > > > of> > > > > planet.....> > > > >> > > > > ------------------> > > > > Regards,> > > > > Devisingh> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > amit.baid wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a> > > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star> > should> > > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign.> > > > > >> > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned> > out> > > > to> > > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was> > > > > > produced by "History Channel". Can anybody suggest some other> > DVD/CD> > > > > > which explains these fundamentals.> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards / Amit> > > > > >> > > > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>, devisigh> > > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Amit JI,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.//> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from> > aries..)2)nakshatra> > > > > > chakra> > > > > > > (start from ashwini)........> > > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra> > > > chakra......> > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right> > > > > > now....while> > > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are> > > > considered> > > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)...> > > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in> > > > which> > > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base> > > > prediction> > > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be> > Tantric> > > > trend)> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > Devisingh> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > To put it in simple language......> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single> > > > > > question, i.e.,> > > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we> > need> > > > some> > > > > > > > reference> > > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches> > equator or> > > > > > > > tropic of cancer> > > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed> > > > stars. Now> > > > > > > > if you are> > > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then> > one> > > > > > > > problem will> > > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round> > the> > > > Sun, it> > > > > > > > slightly slips> > > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This> > is> > > > > > > > approximately> > > > > > > > 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some> > > > point...then> > > > > > > > again next> > > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will> > > > find> > > > > > > > that it is slightly> > > > > > > > behind (by 50").> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough> > > > > > difference> > > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different> > 'frame> > > > of> > > > > > > > references'.> > > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist> > due to> > > > > > > > difference in> > > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference> > > > point.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD> > or> > > > 197> > > > > > > > AD. Now> > > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the> > > > Tropical & > > > > > > > > sidereal systems.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 'hope it helps.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > regards> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Chakraborty> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > > ** > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > [ > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf> > Of> > > > *amit> > > > > > > > desai> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM> > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and> > > > > > Tropical Zodiac> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Amitji> > > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical> > > > longitude> > > > > > > > of planets.> > > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology> > > > b'cos> > > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes> > every> > > > year.> > > > > > > > The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year.> > > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50""> > every> > > > year> > > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox.> > > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point> > here> > > > is> > > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This> > precession> > > > of> > > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the> > > > distance> > > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is> > > > > > > > 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010.> > > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every> > planet> > > > and> > > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree> > will> > > > be> > > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to> > Tropical> > > > birth> > > > > > > > chart.> > > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2> > system.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > warm regards> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *Amit Desai*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM> > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and> > Tropical> > > > Zodiac> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary> > > > positions> > > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed .> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the> > actual> > > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99%> > times> > > > in> > > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One> > sign> > > > ahead).> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The above is in simple language.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books> > on> > > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in> > search.> > > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a> > > > renowned> > > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge> > > > imparted> > > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so> > let> > > > me> > > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a> > formal> > > > > > training> > > > > > > > in these.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are> > interested> > > > in> > > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make> > charts> > > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work> > will> > > > not go> > > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1> > Degree> > > > change> > > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a> > > > serious> > > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own> > > > Chart).> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor> > (Ranjan> > > > Pub).*> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin> > > > with,> > > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for> > understanding> > > > > > basic> > > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through> > Theory> > > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools> > and> > > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share> > with> > > > us> > > > > > when> > > > > > > > you get these.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold> > back,> > > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "amit.baid"> > > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between> > > > Tropical> > > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no> > > > problem> > > > > > > > at all. I will learn that.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > "Bhaskar"> > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages> > of> > > > both> > > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people> > normally> > > > dont> > > > > > believe> > > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign> > > > astrological> > > > > > authors> > > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a> > book> > > > > > on these,> > > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in> > > > application> > > > > > > > of both> > > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of> > approach> > > > in> > > > > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga,> > > > Japa> > > > > > > > Yoga, Raj> > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But> > to> > > > read and> > > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic> > > > > > > > representations> > > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about> > > > this.> > > > > > With few> > > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > > "amit.baid"> > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on> > Sidereal> > > > and> > > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Amit> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New> > > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic> > message> > > > and> > > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive> > use> > > > of> > > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or> > > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,> > you> > > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please> > > > notify> > > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message> > and> > > > any> > > > > > attachments.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 Dear Bhaskar JI, //Your reply is apparently specifically pointed at me. So let me explain. I am not here to give lessons on Western astrology to you as you ahve been demanding me for Indian astrology too, since few months. You are not paying me money to do this. I am not anybody's servant to express what I have learnt.// I apologies If you feel It is pointed at you...That was not intension behind if anybody can look that....but yes sorry if you take and find i hurt you.... I am not demanding lessons here (i know difference between lessons and teaching)...rather i am sharing which i know....do not make it personal...It does not remains discussions anymore... Have I demanded Money from anybody....that is secondary...Have i asked any more question to anybody since after if so sorry then for same...It is meaningless to see such things as far as astrology is concerned.....Make Astrology as Primary.... I never says anything without study first from my side.... ------------------ Regards, Devisingh Bhaskar wrote: // I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or not....at least people can express what they have learned so far...thanks for reply to make thread inline // Your reply is apparently specifically pointed at me. So let me explain. I am not here to give lessons on Western astrology to you as you ahve been demanding me for Indian astrology too, since few months. You are not paying me money to do this. I am not anybody's servant to express what I have learnt. Secondly this is a Group of Ancinet Indian astrology. Once in a while reference can be made to wetsern astrological concepts, but cannot put a full fledged discussion ere. The Moderators will be justified in throwing me out from here if they do so and I will not be eligible to register a complaint too for part has been specified clealry in the Forum Home Page. . // western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are part of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are absurd...// But who has said that this wheel is superior and that inferior ? //western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with Nakshatra....// Study well before making such comments. //Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all systems that tells why they are working since long time.... Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference again there.....// What gibberish is this. Un-understandable what you are talking, what is there in your mind and what you are expressing. , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote: > > Dear cjjohans JI, > > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline > > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all > about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are part > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are > absurd... > > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with > Nakshatra.... > > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all > systems that tells why they are working since long time.... > > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > again there..... > > ------------------ > Regards, > Devisingh > > > Bhaskar wrote: > > > > > > > > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they > > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also > > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy > > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda > > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done > > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done. > > > > > > <%40>, "cjjohans" > > cjjohans@ wrote: > > > > > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on > > average the tropical is more "scientific" as opposed to religious or > > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather > > effect) was the first to use tropical. > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, "Bhaskar" > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like > > the > > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name > > by > > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > > > > skies. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know > > Nakshatra > > > > of > > > > > planet..... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star > > should > > > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned > > out > > > > to > > > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > > > > produced by "History Channel". Can anybody suggest some other > > DVD/CD > > > > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from > > aries..)2)nakshatra > > > > > > chakra > > > > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > > > > chakra...... > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > > > > now....while > > > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > > > > considered > > > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > > > > which > > > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > > > > prediction > > > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be > > Tantric > > > > trend) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > > > > question, i.e., > > > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we > > need > > > > some > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches > > equator or > > > > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > > > > stars. Now > > > > > > > > if you are > > > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then > > one > > > > > > > > problem will > > > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round > > the > > > > Sun, it > > > > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This > > is > > > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > > > 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > > > > point...then > > > > > > > > again next > > > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > > > > find > > > > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > > > > behind (by 50"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different > > 'frame > > > > of > > > > > > > > references'. > > > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist > > due to > > > > > > > > difference in > > > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD > > or > > > > 197 > > > > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > > > > Tropical & > > > > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > ** > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > [ > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf > > Of > > > > *amit > > > > > > > > desai > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > > > > longitude > > > > > > > > of planets. > > > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > > > > b'cos > > > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes > > every > > > > year. > > > > > > > > The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50"" > > every > > > > year > > > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point > > here > > > > is > > > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This > > precession > > > > of > > > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > > > > distance > > > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > > > > 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every > > planet > > > > and > > > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree > > will > > > > be > > > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to > > Tropical > > > > birth > > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 > > system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and > > Tropical > > > > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > > > > positions > > > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the > > actual > > > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% > > times > > > > in > > > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One > > sign > > > > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books > > on > > > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in > > search. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > > > > renowned > > > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > > > > imparted > > > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so > > let > > > > me > > > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a > > formal > > > > > > training > > > > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are > > interested > > > > in > > > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make > > charts > > > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work > > will > > > > not go > > > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 > > Degree > > > > change > > > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > > > > serious > > > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > > > > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor > > (Ranjan > > > > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > > > > with, > > > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for > > understanding > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through > > Theory > > > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools > > and > > > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share > > with > > > > us > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold > > back, > > > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > "amit.baid" > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > > > > Tropical > > > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > > > > problem > > > > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > "Bhaskar" > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages > > of > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people > > normally > > > > dont > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > > > > astrological > > > > > > authors > > > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a > > book > > > > > > on these, > > > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > > > > application > > > > > > > > of both > > > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of > > approach > > > > in > > > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > > > > Japa > > > > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But > > to > > > > read and > > > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > > > > representations > > > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > > > > this. > > > > > > With few > > > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In ancient_indian_ astrology, > > > > "amit.baid" > > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on > > Sidereal > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic > > message > > > > and > > > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive > > use > > > > of > > > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, > > you > > > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > > > notify > > > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message > > and > > > > any > > > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 13, 2010 Report Share Posted April 13, 2010 // Make Astrology as Primary// Thats what I want to tell you. Thank You. regards, Bhaskar. , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar JI,> > //Your reply is apparently specifically pointed at me. So let me > explain. I am not here to give lessons on Western astrology to you as > you ahve been demanding me for Indian astrology too, since few months. > You are not paying me money to do this. I am not anybody's servant to > express what I have learnt.//> > I apologies If you feel It is pointed at you...That was not intension > behind if anybody can look that....but yes sorry if you take and find i > hurt you....> I am not demanding lessons here (i know difference between lessons and > teaching)...rather i am sharing which i know....do not make it > personal...It does not remains discussions anymore...> > Have I demanded Money from anybody....that is secondary...Have i asked > any more question to anybody since after if so sorry then for same...It > is meaningless to see such things as far as astrology is > concerned.....Make Astrology as Primary....> > I never says anything without study first from my side....> ------------------> Regards,> Devisingh> > > Bhaskar wrote:> > > > // I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline //> > > > Your reply is apparently specifically pointed at me. So let me > > explain. I am not here to give lessons on Western astrology to you as > > you ahve been demanding me for Indian astrology too, since few months. > > You are not paying me money to do this. I am not anybody's servant to > > express what I have learnt.> > > > Secondly this is a Group of Ancinet Indian astrology. Once in a while > > reference can be made to wetsern astrological concepts, but cannot put > > a full fledged discussion ere. The Moderators will be justified in > > throwing me out from here if they do so and I will not be eligible to > > register a complaint too for part has been specified clealry in the > > Forum Home Page. .> > > > // western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is > > all about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which > > are part of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of > > that unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean > > that unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such > > thinking are absurd...//> > > > But who has said that this wheel is superior and that inferior ?> >> > //western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we > > find that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do > > with Nakshatra....//> > > > Study well before making such comments.> >> > //Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in > > all systems that tells why they are working since long time....> >> > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > > again there.....//> > > > What gibberish is this. Un-understandable what you are talking, what > > is there in your mind and what you are expressing.> >> >> > > >> > , devisigh > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear cjjohans JI,> > >> > > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or> > > not....at least people can express what they have learned so> > > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline> > >> > > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all> > > about moving wheel....They never used so called Nakshatra which are > > part> > > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that> > > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that> > > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are> > > absurd...> > >> > > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find> > > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with> > > Nakshatra....> > >> > > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical> > > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360> > > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can> > > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in > > all> > > systems that tells why they are working since long time....> > >> > > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion> > > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and> > > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference> > > again there.....> > >> > > ------------------> > > Regards,> > > Devisingh> > >> > >> > > Bhaskar wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they> > > > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also> > > > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy> > > > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda> > > > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done> > > > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done.> > > >> > > > > > > > <%40>, "cjjohans"> > > > cjjohans@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on> > > > average the tropical is more "scientific" as opposed to religious or> > > > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a > > weather> > > > effect) was the first to use tropical.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > <%40>, "Bhaskar"> > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the > > Zodiac like> > > > the> > > > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate > > in both> > > > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a > > corresponding name> > > > by> > > > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the> > > > > > skies.> > > > > >> > > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh> > > > > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Amit JI,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?//> > > > > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets> > > > > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for> > > > > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know> > > > Nakshatra> > > > > > of> > > > > > > planet.....> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------> > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > Devisingh> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > amit.baid wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which > > define a> > > > > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star> > > > should> > > > > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned> > > > out> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. > > This was> > > > > > > > produced by "History Channel". Can anybody suggest some other> > > > DVD/CD> > > > > > > > which explains these fundamentals.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards / Amit> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh> > > > > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.//> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from> > > > aries..)2)nakshatra> > > > > > > > chakra> > > > > > > > > (start from ashwini)........> > > > > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra> > > > > > chakra......> > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right> > > > > > > > now....while> > > > > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are> > > > > > considered> > > > > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)...> > > > > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is > > present in> > > > > > which> > > > > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base> > > > > > prediction> > > > > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be> > > > Tantric> > > > > > trend)> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------> > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > Devisingh> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language......> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single> > > > > > > > question, i.e.,> > > > > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we> > > > need> > > > > > some> > > > > > > > > > reference> > > > > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches> > > > equator or> > > > > > > > > > tropic of cancer> > > > > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed> > > > > > stars. Now> > > > > > > > > > if you are> > > > > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, > > then> > > > one> > > > > > > > > > problem will> > > > > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round> > > > the> > > > > > Sun, it> > > > > > > > > > slightly slips> > > > > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This> > > > is> > > > > > > > > > approximately> > > > > > > > > > 50" per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some> > > > > > point...then> > > > > > > > > > again next> > > > > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, > > we will> > > > > > find> > > > > > > > > > that it is slightly> > > > > > > > > > behind (by 50").> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created > > enough> > > > > > > > difference> > > > > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different> > > > 'frame> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > references'.> > > > > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist> > > > due to> > > > > > > > > > difference in> > > > > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as > > reference> > > > > > point.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in > > 285 AD> > > > or> > > > > > 197> > > > > > > > > > AD. Now> > > > > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the> > > > > > Tropical & > > > > > > > > > > sidereal systems.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > regards> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > > > [ > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > <%40>] *On > > Behalf> > > > Of> > > > > > *amit> > > > > > > > > > desai> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM> > > > > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and> > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Amitji> > > > > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from > > Tropical> > > > > > longitude> > > > > > > > > > of planets.> > > > > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac > > astrology> > > > > > b'cos> > > > > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes> > > > every> > > > > > year.> > > > > > > > > > The change is appro 50"" (seconds in longitude) per year.> > > > > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50""> > > > every> > > > > > year> > > > > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox.> > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point> > > > here> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This> > > > precession> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the> > > > > > distance> > > > > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is> > > > > > > > > > 23*59"49"" as of jan 1st 2010.> > > > > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every> > > > planet> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna > > degree> > > > will> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to> > > > Tropical> > > > > > birth> > > > > > > > > > chart.> > > > > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2> > > > system.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > warm regards> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -------------------------> > > > > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@> > > > > > > > > > *To:* > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > <%40>> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and> > > > Tropical> > > > > > Zodiac> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the > > Planetary> > > > > > positions> > > > > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed .> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the> > > > actual> > > > > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99%> > > > times> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One> > > > sign> > > > > > ahead).> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books> > > > on> > > > > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in> > > > search.> > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years > > from a> > > > > > renowned> > > > > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical > > knowledge> > > > > > imparted> > > > > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for > > himself. so> > > > let> > > > > > me> > > > > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a> > > > formal> > > > > > > > training> > > > > > > > > > in these.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are> > > > interested> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make> > > > charts> > > > > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work> > > > will> > > > > > not go> > > > > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1> > > > Degree> > > > > > change> > > > > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a> > > > > > serious> > > > > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading > > your own> > > > > > Chart).> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan > > Leo/Jacobson> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar > > Pub.)*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor> > > > (Ranjan> > > > > > Pub).*> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should > > begin> > > > > > with,> > > > > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for> > > > understanding> > > > > > > > basic> > > > > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through> > > > Theory> > > > > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools> > > > and> > > > > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share> > > > with> > > > > > us> > > > > > > > when> > > > > > > > > > you get these.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold> > > > back,> > > > > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > > "amit.baid"> > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between> > > > > > Tropical> > > > > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding > > symbols, no> > > > > > problem> > > > > > > > > > at all. I will learn that.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > > "Bhaskar"> > > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji,> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with > > advantages> > > > of> > > > > > both> > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people> > > > normally> > > > > > dont> > > > > > > > believe> > > > > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign> > > > > > astrological> > > > > > > > authors> > > > > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may > > write a> > > > book> > > > > > > > on these,> > > > > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in> > > > > > application> > > > > > > > > > of both> > > > > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of> > > > approach> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > > > astrology.> > > > > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti > > Yoga,> > > > > > Japa> > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Raj> > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga...> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But> > > > to> > > > > > read and> > > > > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with > > symbolic> > > > > > > > > > representations> > > > > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great > > about> > > > > > this.> > > > > > > > With few> > > > > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology,> > > > > > "amit.baid"> > > > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity,> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on> > > > Sidereal> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac.> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging > > Gateway, New> > > > > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic> > > > message> > > > > > and> > > > > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive> > > > use> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or> > > > > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient,> > > > you> > > > > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please> > > > > > notify> > > > > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message> > > > and> > > > > > any> > > > > > > > attachments.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 , devisigh <devisingh.rajput wrote: > > Dear cjjohans JI, > > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline > > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all > about moving wheel.... Wrong there are people (in minority) who care more for the fixed zodiac. The others even choose to ignore that the first western astrologers (like Valens) used fixed zodiac. But I will grant to Bhaskar that most are at least aware of the issue, but go with the flow. They never used so called Nakshatra which are part > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are > absurd... > > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with > Nakshatra.... > Actually Westerners use both systems for mansions, so that says something about their confusion on the issue http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/mansionsmoon.html > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all > systems that tells why they are working since long time.... > Western astrology almost went extinct in the 18th century, so I'm not sure one can say it's working perfectly. (Of course that was not entirely the fault of the astrology, the increased science happened too.) > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > again there..... > > ------------------ > Regards, > Devisingh > > > Bhaskar wrote: > > > > > > > > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they > > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also > > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy > > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda > > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done > > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done. > > > > > > <%40>, " cjjohans " > > <cjjohans@> wrote: > > > > > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on > > average the tropical is more " scientific " as opposed to religious or > > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather > > effect) was the first to use tropical. > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " Bhaskar " > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like > > the > > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name > > by > > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > > > > skies. > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know > > Nakshatra > > > > of > > > > > planet..... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star > > should > > > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned > > out > > > > to > > > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > > > > produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other > > DVD/CD > > > > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from > > aries..)2)nakshatra > > > > > > chakra > > > > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > > > > chakra...... > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > > > > now....while > > > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > > > > considered > > > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > > > > which > > > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > > > > prediction > > > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be > > Tantric > > > > trend) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > > > > question, i.e., > > > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we > > need > > > > some > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches > > equator or > > > > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > > > > stars. Now > > > > > > > > if you are > > > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then > > one > > > > > > > > problem will > > > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round > > the > > > > Sun, it > > > > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This > > is > > > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > > > > point...then > > > > > > > > again next > > > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > > > > find > > > > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > > > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different > > 'frame > > > > of > > > > > > > > references'. > > > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist > > due to > > > > > > > > difference in > > > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD > > or > > > > 197 > > > > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > > > > Tropical & > > > > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > ** > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > [ > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf > > Of > > > > *amit > > > > > > > > desai > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > > > > longitude > > > > > > > > of planets. > > > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > > > > b'cos > > > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes > > every > > > > year. > > > > > > > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " > > every > > > > year > > > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point > > here > > > > is > > > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This > > precession > > > > of > > > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > > > > distance > > > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > > > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every > > planet > > > > and > > > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree > > will > > > > be > > > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to > > Tropical > > > > birth > > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 > > system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > > > > *To:* > > <%40> > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and > > Tropical > > > > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > > > > positions > > > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the > > actual > > > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% > > times > > > > in > > > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One > > sign > > > > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books > > on > > > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in > > search. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > > > > renowned > > > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > > > > imparted > > > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so > > let > > > > me > > > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a > > formal > > > > > > training > > > > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are > > interested > > > > in > > > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make > > charts > > > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work > > will > > > > not go > > > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 > > Degree > > > > change > > > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > > > > serious > > > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > > > > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor > > (Ranjan > > > > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > > > > with, > > > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for > > understanding > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through > > Theory > > > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools > > and > > > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share > > with > > > > us > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold > > back, > > > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > > > > Tropical > > > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > > > > problem > > > > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > " Bhaskar " > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages > > of > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people > > normally > > > > dont > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > > > > astrological > > > > > > authors > > > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a > > book > > > > > > on these, > > > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > > > > application > > > > > > > > of both > > > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of > > approach > > > > in > > > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > > > > Japa > > > > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But > > to > > > > read and > > > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > > > > representations > > > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > > > > this. > > > > > > With few > > > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > > > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on > > Sidereal > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic > > message > > > > and > > > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive > > use > > > > of > > > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, > > you > > > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > > > notify > > > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message > > and > > > > any > > > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Dear Johans, Western astrology of the Fixed Stars is a great extra input for those who can study it and gain from same. For instance if one checks the role of the Fixed Star Spica in Amitabh Bachhans Birth Chart, one would realise why he is, as he is. I can give more inputs on some more prominent personalities of India and the world but this is not the time to do so... best wishes, Bhaskar. , " cjjohans " <cjjohans wrote: > > > > , devisigh devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > Dear cjjohans JI, > > > > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline > > > > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all > > about moving wheel.... > > Wrong there are people (in minority) who care more for the fixed zodiac. The others even choose to ignore that the first western astrologers (like Valens) used fixed zodiac. But I will grant to Bhaskar that most are at least aware of the issue, but go with the flow. > > > They never used so called Nakshatra which are part > > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that > > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that > > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are > > absurd... > > > > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find > > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with > > Nakshatra.... > > > Actually Westerners use both systems for mansions, so that says something about their confusion on the issue > http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/mansionsmoon.html > > > > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all > > systems that tells why they are working since long time.... > > > Western astrology almost went extinct in the 18th century, so I'm not sure one can say it's working perfectly. (Of course that was not entirely the fault of the astrology, the increased science happened too.) > > > > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > > again there..... > > > > ------------------ > > Regards, > > Devisingh > > > > > > Bhaskar wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they > > > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also > > > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy > > > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda > > > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done > > > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done. > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " cjjohans " > > > <cjjohans@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on > > > average the tropical is more " scientific " as opposed to religious or > > > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather > > > effect) was the first to use tropical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, " Bhaskar " > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like > > > the > > > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both > > > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name > > > by > > > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the > > > > > skies. > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > > <devisingh.rajput@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > > > //Aren't both interrelated?// > > > > > > It appear but it is not, Both system are different and gets > > > > > > mixed...Nakshatra system not requires to know Sign for > > > > > > Prediction...likewise Sign system does not requires to know > > > Nakshatra > > > > > of > > > > > > planet..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amit.baid wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devisingh ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aren't both interrelated? It is stars (nakshtras) which define a > > > > > > > zodiac. Therefore, position of a planet in a particular star > > > should > > > > > > > corroborate with the zodiac sign. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have got a DVD on the planets and solar system but it turned > > > out > > > > > to > > > > > > > be a insight into various planets its environment etc. This was > > > > > > > produced by " History Channel " . Can anybody suggest some other > > > DVD/CD > > > > > > > which explains these fundamentals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>, devisigh > > > > > > > devisingh.rajput@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit JI, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider two chakra 1)Sign chakra (start from > > > aries..)2)nakshatra > > > > > > > chakra > > > > > > > > (start from ashwini)........ > > > > > > > > Prediction can be given by using Sign chakra or Nakshatra > > > > > chakra...... > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac tells Planet in present in which sign right > > > > > > > now....while > > > > > > > > Sidereal tell planets are present in which Star (as star are > > > > > considered > > > > > > > > as not moving frame of reference)... > > > > > > > > Steller Base prediction required to check Planet is present in > > > > > which > > > > > > > > Star.(may be Vedic tradition can not name)......Sign base > > > > > prediction > > > > > > > > required to check Planet is present in which Sign(may be > > > Tantric > > > > > trend) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Devisingh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty, PL wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To put it in simple language...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sidereal & tropical system originates from one single > > > > > > > question, i.e., > > > > > > > > > 'Frame of Reference' or some fixed background > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sky, if we have to measure the position of planets, we > > > need > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > reference > > > > > > > > > point against which we can make this measurement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In tropical system, the position of Sun as it touches > > > equator or > > > > > > > > > tropic of cancer > > > > > > > > > etc. are taken as 'Frame of Reference'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In sidereal system, the 'frame of reference' is some fixed > > > > > stars. Now > > > > > > > > > if you are > > > > > > > > > trying to make measurements against these fixed stars, then > > > one > > > > > > > > > problem will > > > > > > > > > arise. As earth rotates on its axis while revolving round > > > the > > > > > Sun, it > > > > > > > > > slightly slips > > > > > > > > > backward.....which is known as Precessional movement. This > > > is > > > > > > > > > approximately > > > > > > > > > 50 " per year. So, say today if we observed Sun at some > > > > > point...then > > > > > > > > > again next > > > > > > > > > year, at the same date & time if we look at the Sun, we will > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > that it is slightly > > > > > > > > > behind (by 50 " ). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This precessional movement over the years has created enough > > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > > > between Tropical & Sidereal observations due to different > > > 'frame > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > references'. > > > > > > > > > Among sidereal systems also, some minor differences exist > > > due to > > > > > > > > > difference in > > > > > > > > > opinion about which particular star to be taken as reference > > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both system showed same planetary degrees probably in 285 AD > > > or > > > > > 197 > > > > > > > > > AD. Now > > > > > > > > > they are apart by roughly 23.5 degree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some good artciles in Soulhealing.com about the > > > > > Tropical & > > > > > > > > > sidereal systems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'hope it helps. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chakraborty > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ** > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > [ > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40>] *On Behalf > > > Of > > > > > *amit > > > > > > > > > desai > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Friday, April 09, 2010 10:35 AM > > > > > > > > > *To:* > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Re: Sidereal and > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amitji > > > > > > > > > just to add little more to what Bhaskarji said > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in sidereal astrology the aynamsa is deducted from Tropical > > > > > longitude > > > > > > > > > of planets. > > > > > > > > > Tropical astrology is also called moveable Zodiac astrology > > > > > b'cos > > > > > > > > > Aries point in this astrology is not fixed and it changes > > > every > > > > > year. > > > > > > > > > The change is appro 50 " " (seconds in longitude) per year. > > > > > > > > > The Aries point in tropical astrology moves back by 50 " " > > > every > > > > > year > > > > > > > > > and is called Precession of equinox. > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is called Fixed Zodiac astrology and Aries point > > > here > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > fixed correspondig to chitra paksha asterism . This > > > precession > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > equinox is called Ayan gati in sidereal astrology and the > > > > > distance > > > > > > > > > moved so far is called Ayanamsa which is > > > > > > > > > 23*59 " 49 " " as of jan 1st 2010. > > > > > > > > > This amount is deducted from Tropical longitude of every > > > planet > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > house cusp to derive Sidereal longitude. Hence lagna degree > > > will > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > different by Aynamsa amount in Sidereal as compared to > > > Tropical > > > > > birth > > > > > > > > > chart. > > > > > > > > > I hope this will help u understand the diff. between 2 > > > system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > warm regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Amit Desai* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ** Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish@ > > > > > > > > > *To:* > > > <%40> > > > > > > > <%40> > > > > > > > > > *Sent:* Wed, April 7, 2010 12:17:19 PM > > > > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: Sidereal and > > > Tropical > > > > > Zodiac > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sidereal is Indian system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical is Western system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system we deduct the ayanamsha from the Planetary > > > > > positions > > > > > > > > > and then predict as to what results would be obtianed .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Tropical they dont deduct the ayanamsha but take the > > > actual > > > > > > > > > position of the planets in the sky as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Indian system suppose your Lagna is Taurus, then in 99% > > > times > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the Western system the Lagna would change to Gemini. (One > > > sign > > > > > ahead). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The above is in simple language. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both systems work well in hands of Experts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For shifting of Equinox You may refer some elemntary books > > > on > > > > > > > > > Astronomy or some web sites after putting these terms in > > > search. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately even after one Graduates after 5 years from a > > > > > renowned > > > > > > > > > institution be it from Bombay or Delhi, practical knowledge > > > > > imparted > > > > > > > > > to students is road side... One has to fend for himself. so > > > let > > > > > me > > > > > > > > > tell you that you are not missing much by not having a > > > formal > > > > > > > training > > > > > > > > > in these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must buy a Rapheals Ephemeris if you really are > > > interested > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > learning the Western system. You must also learn to make > > > charts > > > > > > > > > manually. I can vouch from experience that this hard work > > > will > > > > > not go > > > > > > > > > waste and you would recogbnise the importance of even 1 > > > Degree > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > in your statistics once you learn to do this (If You are a > > > > > serious > > > > > > > > > student of Astrology and not here just for reading your own > > > > > Chart). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *_Some good Books_* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology of the Seers - Frawley D. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Key and Guide to Astrology - Rapheal* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manual of Astrology - Sepharial > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dynamics of Aspects analysis - Tierney B. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Horary Astrology- Rapheal /Simmonite W.J./Alan Leo/Jacobson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An introduction to Astrology - William Lily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Books by Alan Leo*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *All Class Books by the Professors of BVB, Bombay.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *The Horoscope in detail by Alan Leo and H.S.Green* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Basic Astronomy for Astrologer by Deepak Nair (Sagar Pub.)* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Astronomy and Methematical Astrology by Deepak Kapoor > > > (Ranjan > > > > > Pub).* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Books mentioned in Bold are those which you should begin > > > > > with, > > > > > > > > > first. And they are not Fat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may also look up on some Videos on the Net for > > > understanding > > > > > > > basic > > > > > > > > > Concepts from Books which one cannot understand through > > > Theory > > > > > > > > > readingin Books and which they do not teach in Big Schools > > > and > > > > > > > > > universities of Astrology or Vidyalayas. And please share > > > with > > > > > us > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > you get these. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember Knowledge Shared is Knowledge Gained. Do not hold > > > back, > > > > > > > > > Never, when sharing what one knows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@ .> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I wish to understand the actual difference between > > > > > Tropical > > > > > > > > > and Sidereal and shifting of equinox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please suggest a good book on above. REgarding symbols, no > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > at all. I will learn that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards / Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, > > > " Bhaskar " > > > > > > > > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Amit ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very rarely will you find a single Book with advantages > > > of > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned at one place. Because Sidereral people > > > normally > > > > > dont > > > > > > > believe > > > > > > > > > > > in application of Tropical and viceversa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its better if you purchase some books by foreign > > > > > astrological > > > > > > > authors > > > > > > > > > > > and study on your own. maybe in 3-4 years I may write a > > > book > > > > > > > on these, > > > > > > > > > > > but as of now, not ready for the same. I beleieve in > > > > > application > > > > > > > > > of both > > > > > > > > > > > and do not bear any resentments to any systems of > > > approach > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > > they are all leading to the same God, be it Bhakti Yoga, > > > > > Japa > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Raj > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga, Jnana Yoga, Karma Yoga... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you require names ogf good authors. But > > > to > > > > > read and > > > > > > > > > > > udnerstand these, you must be well versant with symbolic > > > > > > > > > representations > > > > > > > > > > > of the planets, Houses and aspects. Nothing great about > > > > > this. > > > > > > > With few > > > > > > > > > > > weeks practise it can be done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards/Bhaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology@ . com, > > > > > " amit.baid " > > > > > > > > > > > <amit.baid@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on > > > Sidereal > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Amit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New > > > > > > > Delhi, India. The information contained in this electronic > > > message > > > > > and > > > > > > > any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive > > > use > > > > > of > > > > > > > the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or > > > > > > > privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, > > > you > > > > > > > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > > > > > notify > > > > > > > the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message > > > and > > > > > any > > > > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Dear Devi Singh ji,//> Wrong there are people (in minority) who care more for the fixed zodiac. The others even choose to ignore that the first western astrologers (like Valens) used fixed zodiac. But I will grant to Bhaskar that most are at least aware of the issue, but go with the flow.// I agree completely with cjjohans ji's learned opinion. Please note that - * Westerners (many before Ptolemy and few after Ptolemy) used fixed zodiac. For example Hipparchus used a fixed zodiac (even though the Ayanamsa he used was different). Actually almost all astrologers before Ptolemy used only fixed zodiac and not the moving one. I am saying 'almost' only because, I am not certain howmany of them were aware of or using tropical zodiac at that time. But certainly at that time as well Tropical astrology was in existence in India (as evident from Vedas) and was in existence in Babylonia (as evident from clay tablets). Similarly used of Fixed zodiac (Sidereal astrology) was in existence in India (as evident from Surya Siddhanta and ancient rishi horas) and was in existence in Greek and many other parts of the western land (as evident from Hipparchus works and other ancient evidences). As cjjohans ji rightly puts it "there are people (in minority) who care more for the fixed zodiac. The others even choose to ignore that the first western astrologers (like Valens) used fixed zodiac.". Right he is! The truth is - both Tropical Astrology as well as Sidereal astrology was in existence from ancient past; both the systems argue that one is better than the other; now we are in soup where it is difficult to understand which statement is said related to tropical astrology and which about sidereal astrology; the prediction statements made by astrologers of both these systems are mixed-up that much by the fools (like us) who followed! It is high time that this mistake is corrected. * When C J Johans ji states that - "most are at least aware of the issue, but go with the flow", then I cannot but agree, because numerous people in this group are well aware that - 1) Ancient Western astrology supported and used fixed zodiac. Ancient Indian astrology supported and used both Tropical zodiac and Sidereal zodiac (i.e. Vedic followers used mainly Tropical zodiac, and Tantric followers Sidereal zodiac). The use of zodiac, Prakrit (old Sanskrit) like Indo-European languages, fixed zodiac, idol worship etc etc are a wide spread phenomenon spanning both Asia and European continents. (This would be true whether we speak about Central russian cultures, celts, sumerians, hittites, Babylonians, Crete, Minnovens, Mesopotomians, Assyrians, Zorashtrians or what ever). Ofcourse the same can be stated about Fir worship, Tropical zodiac etc as well. The history is a mix, and almost everywhere you will find Fixed (Sidereal) as well as Tropical Zodiac - in one cult or the other. 2) Most of us who practice Sidereal astrology in this group know well that Vedas contain large amount of Tropical astrology as well. But true, "people prefer to go with the flow"! In west - with Tropical astrology, and in East (in India) with Sidereal astrology. We are contaminating the directions by stating 'east' 'west' etc here Is there other directions?! Whether there is any directions or not - the Celtic (European), Mayan (Meso-american), Chineese (Eastern?) and Egyptian (Western?) astrology has lost its wealthy roots and now it is difficult to ascertain from the rudimentary fragments available, their depth or whether they were Sidereal or Tropical in essential nature or something else altogether! Going with the flow is easy - but let us not loss our true understandings about the reality while in that flow. The truth is not for the masses, not present in the opinion of the masses; but would be present only in the statement of the one who toiled to realize it; and he is certain to be unacceptable and rejected; destined to be remained with the few, the few that takes a different path! Note: Thanks to C J Johans ji, who usually writes a few lines only, but line that are pregnant with great understanding and knowledge. Thanks for expressing. :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "cjjohans" <cjjohans wrote:>> > th> , devisigh devisingh.rajput@ wrote:> >> > Dear cjjohans JI,> > > > I was surprised since waiting does anyone knows western here or > > not....at least people can express what they have learned so > > far...thanks for reply to make thread inline> > > > western Astrology has nothing to do with unmoving wheel....It is all > > about moving wheel....> > Wrong there are people (in minority) who care more for the fixed zodiac. The others even choose to ignore that the first western astrologers (like Valens) used fixed zodiac. But I will grant to Bhaskar that most are at least aware of the issue, but go with the flow.> > > They never used so called Nakshatra which are part > > of fixed wheel...at least i have not encountered any use of that > > unmoving wheel into western moving wheel....this does not mean that > > unmoving wheel is superior or moving wheel superior...such thinking are > > absurd...> > > > western have provided a name Mansion...when we understand that we find > > that this is a 7th segment of 90 degree...It has nothing to do with > > Nakshatra....> > > Actually Westerners use both systems for mansions, so that says something about their confusion on the issue> http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/mansionsmoon.html> > > > Mansion start with Aries sign which is moving wheel Tropical > > Zpdiac....28 segment are marked start with Aries for whole 360 > > degree...I do not understand as far as prediction concern anybody can > > not see any complimentary system as a whole...I see what is 'arc' in all > > systems that tells why they are working since long time....> > > Western astrology almost went extinct in the 18th century, so I'm not sure one can say it's working perfectly. (Of course that was not entirely the fault of the astrology, the increased science happened too.)> > > > Nakshatra from sidereal system is Moola then as per western Mansion > > would be nearly more then 2-3 from that...since they consider 28 and > > segment are different...and yes momement in equinox makes difference > > again there.....> > > > ------------------> > Regards,> > Devisingh> > > > > > Bhaskar wrote:> > > > > >> > >> > > I am studying this since last 2 Years so am qualified to say that they> > > KNOW. Those who are not using it, is for the simple reasons which also> > > matches what most of Indian astrologers too do, that is, take the easy> > > way out, and read results of planets in signs or houses, from Linda> > > Goodmans, or other books in India, which requires no study to be done> > > BUT just simple verbal recitation from books to be done.> > >> > > > > > <%40>, "cjjohans"> > > <cjjohans@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Most Westerners don't use stars or nakshatras at all. They think on> > > average the tropical is more "scientific" as opposed to religious or> > > mystical. Ptolemy (a scientist who believed astrology is just a weather> > > effect) was the first to use tropical.> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > <%40>, "Bhaskar"> > > bhaskar_jyotish@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > The Westerners are quite aware of the Fixed Stars of the Zodiac like> > > the> > > > > Chitra or the Spica which is considered to be most fortunate in both> > > > > systems. Every Nakshatra of ours has been given a corresponding name> > > by> > > > > the Westerners through their own approach of loacting these in the> > > > > skies.> > > > >> > > > > regards/Bhaskar.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Dear Amit, For Sidereal astrology (I mean Nirayana astrology and NOT stellar astrology) read some good book on Indian astrology. (There are many in the market) For Tropical astrology (I mean Tropical astrology and NOT Sayana astrology) please read some good book on Western astrology. (There are many in the market). Please note that - * Sidereal astrology itself is neither eastern or western. (Many ancient Hellenistic astrologer followed Sidereal - i.e. fixed zodiac - system); similarly * Tropical astrology itself is neither eastern or western. (Many ancient Indian texts such as Vedsa refer to the extensive use of tropical astrology). It is just that later Sidereal astrology was seriously taken up by Indians and Tropical astrology by Westerners (Europeans and modern day Americans). Hope this helps.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "amit.baid" <amit.baid wrote:>> Dear Learned Fraternity,> > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and Tropical Zodiac.> > Regards> > Amit> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Dear Sreenadh ji, Sidereal is Nirayan is Stellar is Eastern. We knew about the 12 Spokes of the wheel, But did not use Raashis in the ancient times for Prediction purposes, except Nakshatras . Tropical is Sayana is Western because we in East do not follow it these days. The words mentioned as Directions are denoted as Eastern or Western only to bifercate the regions which use in Majority Tropical or Sidereal. Sayana was the Ancient astrology of India. But no more. Love and regards, Bhaskar. , " sreesog " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Amit, > For Sidereal astrology (I mean Nirayana astrology and NOT stellar > astrology) read some good book on Indian astrology. (There are many in > the market) > For Tropical astrology (I mean Tropical astrology and NOT Sayana > astrology) please read some good book on Western astrology. (There are > many in the market). > Please note that - > * Sidereal astrology itself is neither eastern or western. (Many > ancient Hellenistic astrologer followed Sidereal - i.e. fixed zodiac - > system); similarly > * Tropical astrology itself is neither eastern or western. (Many > ancient Indian texts such as Vedsa refer to the extensive use of > tropical astrology). > It is just that later Sidereal astrology was seriously taken up by > Indians and Tropical astrology by Westerners (Europeans and modern day > Americans). > Hope this helps. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " amit.baid " > amit.baid@ wrote: > > > > Dear Learned Fraternity, > > > > Kindly suggest a good book to clarify concepts on Sidereal and > Tropical Zodiac. > > > > Regards > > > > Amit > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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