Greeks vs Indians HOLY JEUS!

April 1, 2009

@ Bhaskar Jee :

I detest the use of first name. Even servants were called with " Jee " in my

family. We are strangers here in forums, and I will prefer to remain a

stranger to almost everyone here.

Mr Bhaskar says : " I would like you to predict here too on the groups so that

all could witness your predictive abilities. "

I will like to elaborate my methods in forums. But I will be very busy in

near future.

-VJ

________________________________

Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish

Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:56:18 PM

Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

Dear Vinay,

I would like you to predict here too on the groups so that all could witness

your predictive abilities, which you mentioned in the below mail. But

Computational and Mathematical skills are not required o be showcased, as I dont

think anybody would be interested in that,this being an astrology Forum and not

a maths one.

By the way I am fighting your battle which you began here by trying to impress

on Marg the origin of Indian vedic astrology which you could not. I have also

fought for you in the past without any thanksgivings. One should go and try

proving something which can be proved, or else not claim about anything.

Otherwise one makes a fool of himself. And others have to defend him with their

time and efforts.

Nothing is going to be achieved by proving the origin to anybody. This is

actually a waste of time. Instead of taking up easy and unverifiable issues ,

why not pick up some astrological principles and use them effectively here to

show how you can predict so wonderfully as you have claimed in this mail. In

this way the thread can become interesting and we all can learn from you.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> A reader in Department of Jyotisha in KSD Sanskrit University tested me before

many scholars. Then the Head of Department of Grammar in the same university

tested me (he asked me a simpler question : 786 raised to the power 8, which I

answered within seconds without using paper or any tool. Then he replied that I

must have used some tricks !!! It is impossible to satisfy such sceptics. If

Sunil ji wants that I should stop my research work and become a madaari

demonstrating my computational ability, he will be discouraged.

> I am not Ramanujam, and I acquired some mathematical talents which I really

needed. I learnt logarithmic and antilog tables and a lot more by rote in early

boyhood.

> -VJ

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a

>

> Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:32:19 AM

> Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

>

> Dear Vinayji,

>

> You said that you can compute faster than a computer. In this age people want

proof and do not want to believe in assertions because anybody can get away with

assertions. So may I request you to get your computing power publicly

demonstrated and reliably reported so that people will not doubt what you say.

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

>

> --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

>

> Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

> Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

>

> Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 11:21 AM

>

> As I had suspected, Marg entirely missed the points raised by me, and is

deliberately harping on physical proofs of what I say are metaphysical entities.

Bhaskar ji can give her planetary positions without using any physical tools,

and I can demonstrate that I can compute faster than a computer. Margie is not

interested in knowing the marvels of Vedic astrology, and is more keen on

proving the superiority of non-Indian astrology. Earlier too, I had tried to

attract her attention towards secret methods of Vedic mundane astrology, but to

no avail. Even if someone finds physical evidences of Indian or non-Indian

astrology in 20000000 BC, it will help nobody. Veda and Vedic Astrology are

parts of Eternal Religion (Sanatana Dharma), and religion is personal experience

which can be taught and learnt only through a guru-shishya tradition. Sterile

discussion will lead us nowhere.

> -VJ

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

>

> Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:36:16 PM

> Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

>

> I can give you the planetary positions of any date in future sitting in

> a closed room without going to a observatory or physical observation, or

> access to any Table, Ephemeris, Computer or Almanac. That must be enough

> proof of the Ancient Indian knowledge of observing the heavens, who had

> after observing for centuries, and through their intellect , developed

> so much analytical powers that even modern day astrologers like me can

> make use of their findings and talk. What more further proof is

> required ? I can also give geographical proof to a worthy and actual

> serious enquirist who is unbiased. But otherwise would not like to

> fritter this knowledge for the sake of some people who may wish to

> collect this, and write a book in their name, and sell it for money .

> But if I show someone a place and tell him that this existed in 2,50000

> BC, then how many will be able to test this , how many will have the

> capacity and apparatus to test this. Or are they going to take the

> bricks for Carbon testing ? For being accessible to such knowledge one

> has to be a worthy and unsuspecting invitee who must not have any qualms

> of prejudices of " My country " or " Your country " etc.

>

> Bhaskar.

>

> , " Marg " <margie9@ > wrote:

> >

> > Hi Vinay

> > you say:

> > ''and some concepts of astrology an be traced back torock paintings of

> even 30000 BC''

> > So these torock paintings exist, can be viewed and were first

> discovered in India?

> > Is there any other physical evidence in India to show recording of

> planets or constellations? Pyramids, stone circles, caves with paintings

> on the wall, or any other structures at all which demonstrate an ancient

> Indian system of observing the heavens pre 250,000 BC?

> > best wishes

> > M

> > -

> > Vinay Jha

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:13 PM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Fine question by Margie. The answer formed gist of my lecture at

> Kalidasa Academy in April 2008 titled " Contribution of Indian Astrology

> To the World Astrology " (in Hindi). The article, in Hindi, can be read

> in full at my website. Here I can offer only a brief answer, which may

> not satisfy readers.

> >

> > Indian Jyotisha is regarded as a Vedaanga (part of Veda). Since Vedas

> are said to be composed after 1500 BC, its part cannot predate it. But

> proofs of astrology with 12 house concept and other paraphernalia

> existed in ancient civilizations around 3000 BC, and some concepts of

> astrology an be traced back torock paintings of even 30000 BC. Hence,

> the very topic " Contribution of Indian Astrology... " is meaningless,

> unless we prove that the dating of Vedas should be advanced

> considerably. This was how I introduced the topic, and then discussed

> the unscientific method of comparative linguistics of 19th century

> linguists. I devoted 12 years in this field. I found no concrete

> evidence in favour of dating of the Vedas, only opinions were forwarded.

> Rgvedic society was believed to be a pastoral one, and was therefore

> held to be at par with Greeks at the time of Battle of Troy, which was

> the earliest known historical event in the West. Hence, 1200 BC was said

> to

> > be the mean date of Rgveda. But when Michael Ventris proved that

> Mycenaean Greeks enjoyed urban civilization around the middle of 2nd

> millenium BC, it proved that their pastoral ancestors must have lived

> befor 2000 BC. Taking into account the presence of Harappan

> civilization, Rgvedic civilization could not be possible after 3000 BC,

> if the logic of 19th century linguists was to be applied.

> >

> > Then, I applied the methods of modern linguistics, and assuming that

> we do not know which IE branch was more archaic I applied equal

> weightage to all major IE branches, and took statistical averages for

> all consonants and vowels separately, and to my surprize found that the

> PIE etymon exactly copied the Vedic form in almost all cases !!!

> >

> > Such a result contradicted the prevalent opinion. I had no doubt in

> the accuracy of my results, because I checked it again and again for

> years. For one month, I was profoundly disturbed. Then I decided to

> carry on my research into historical semantics, and unexpectedly arrived

> at far more bizarre conclusions. For instance, there is no root for

> " brother " in any IE language. In the Rgveda, bhraatr and its derivatives

> occur 33 times. At 32 places, it means " Sun " . At 33th instance, it is

> used for 'Yama', who is a son of Sun as well as a brother of Yami. That

> is why ancient grammarians deduced bhraatr from the root bhraash which

> meant " to shine " . the meaning " brother " was a later development, a

> Laukika (worldly) usage.

> >

> > Similarly, Agni was derived from a root which meant " to move

> tortuously " . The Vedic god Agni was believed to move tortuously to all

> worlds, and was therefore believed to fetch oblations to all gods, and

> was therefore eulogized as the real purohita. When works were being

> formed out of roots, physical " fire " was absent, social " brother " was

> absent. Only divine terms and meanings were present. Does it mean that

> Veda preceded society and world ??? Atheists will laugh at such ideas,

> but all ancient grammarians believed so.

> >

> > Instead of proving my views, I have put forth the problem. Solve it.

> >

> > Now come to the second proble. The concept of 12 astrological houses

> existed in all ancient civilizations, from China and India to Sumer and

> Egypt. In most societies, even their names had similar meanings and

> significances. It points to some common origins. Where is that common

> origin???

> >

> > Lagna (ascendant) is defined as the rising point of ec loptic at

> eastern horizon. it symbolizes Body and worldy life. opposite is 7th

> house, which signifies Kaama (libido). Nishkaama state gives the state

> of Videha, and Kaama gives bondage into Deha (flesh). Both have cause :

> consequence relation.

> >

> > 2nd house is maarkesh, cause of death, and opposite is Death (8th

> house). Aparigraha and Indriya-nigraha gives deliverance from Death,

> while wealth and sensory pleasures lead to death. Hence, senses and

> wealth are related to maarkesh.

> >

> > 3rd house is paraakrama (valour, vigour) and opposite is the result ;

> bhaagya (Fortune).

> >

> > At the foot lies Earth, the mother, and vehicle also lies below the

> rider. Hence, 4th house is below. 10th house is heaven, Father, glory,

> and the consequence of Land(4th house) in the form of State and Power.

> >

> > 5th house is Vidyaa (knowledge) and opposite is its consequence :

> > income / profit. 6thy house is enemy or disease and opposite is its

> > result : loss.

> >

> > Thus, all 12 houses have cause : consequence relation between

> contrasting and opposite houses. There is a discernible logical design

> behind the concept of 12 houses, and this logic was present in the

> common origin wherefrom this concept spread to other lands.

> >

> > The source of this common origin is not difficult to discern. As shown

> above, the philosophy of Deha versus Kaama, and Videha versus Nishkaama

> underlied the concepts behind first and seventh houses. Similarly, the

> ideas of sensory pleasures and wealth being related to cause of death

> and renunciation as a means of liberation from the cycles of death and

> birth was behind the idea of 2nd and 8th houses. Such a philosophy

> existed only in India. We cannot find such philosophies elesewhere.

> >

> > Now come to the third point : Why physical remains are not found in

> India. There are two causes . Their is no dearth of physical remains

> related to non-Vedic but hindu (ie, Asuric) cultures, but there is a

> lack of political will to accept the truth. For instance, the state

> symbol of Magadha was solar chakra consisting of 24 spokes as 24 ritus.

> It was adopted by Buddhism, and came to be known as Dhamma-chakka,

> whence modern India adopted it as its emblem. These " experts "

> deliberately forget that all punched-marked coins of Magadha right from

> earliest times contain this sun sign. The concept of 24 ritus is Vedic.

> But the second cause is more profound, and less marked. Real experts of

> Vedic astrology used Suryasiddhanta whose planets differed from those of

> physical astronomy and were believed to be deities , ie conscious

> elements. Deities could not be seen through human eyes. Hence there was

> no need of any observatory & c. But Drikpakshiya astronomy was not

> > unknown, although it was not used in astrology by most astrologers.

> >

> > It is a mere summary, which will not satisfy many readers. the proof

> of Indian astrology is neither logical discussion nor correlation with

> physical astronomy, but predictive astrology, which is highly precise if

> Suryasiddhantic mathematics is followed.

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Marg margie9@

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:42:05 PM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Thankyou for your reply Vinay, you are so obviously an expert on many

> cultures. Perhaps you can help me with a query?

> > As you know there are signs all over the planet of star and moon

> watching by ancient civilisations, and even astrological practise which

> are constantly being rediscovered by archaeology. For instance in

> Ireland there are caves thought to be inhabited circa 5000 BC which show

> careful calculations of moon phases and star knowledge. We know the

> Egyptians have star diagrams due to the engravings and paintings on

> pyramid walls possible circa 2500BC and beyond. Reindeer and mammoth

> tusks found on mainland Europe over 25,000 years old are known to have

> notches on them which represent the phases of the moon.

> > Yet I have no knowledge of anything similar being found in India,

> which is odd when so many believe astrology was founded there don't you

> think?

> > I wonder if you know where in India there is similar physical evidence

> of very early observation of the sky, not in a book, but actual

> geographically located physical evidence of early skywatching? I would

> really appreciate knowing this

> > thanks

> > M

> > -

> > Vinay Jha

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:51 AM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > No. Modern India still preserves the archaic culture and religion to a

> great extent, but modern Greece or Iran or Egypt or Mesopotamia contain

> only relics of the past. China officially disowns its cultural roots,

> and does nor preserve pre-Confucian or pre-Buddhist culture. India is an

> exception. Not even 1% of modern Indians fully adhere to the ancient

> ways, but millions try to adhere to ancient norms...

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Marg margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:10:56 PM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Similarly modern Indians :-)

> > -

> > Vinay Jha

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:13 AM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Modern Iranians cannot be said to represent the ancient Babylonians

> culturally.

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Marg margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:22:07 PM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Dear R

> > I think the Babylonians aka Persians aka Iranians are still delivering

> readings?

> > -

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > Monday, March 30, 2009 3:21 AM

> > Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > How many Babylonians are still giving astrology readings to those who

> need same?

> >

> > How many Indians (by birth, soul-connections or otherwise!) are doing

> the same?

> >

> > Case closed?

> >

> > For me it is! Karma = Action (not speeches and pontifications! )

> >

> > RR

> >

April 1, 2009

Dear Vinay jee,

That may have been a mistake on my part, but for just once. I normally

address even my servants as " jee " .

Good, so you have already been ready with an alibi, to back out when

confronted to prove your predictive abilities.

But I will wait.

Bhaskar.

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> @ Bhaskar Jee :

>

> I detest the use of first name. Even servants were called with " Jee "

in my family. We are strangers here in forums, and I will prefer

to remain a stranger to almost everyone here.

>

> Mr Bhaskar says : " I would like you to predict here too on the groups

so that all could witness your predictive abilities. "

>

> I will like to elaborate my methods in forums. But I will be

very busy in near future.

>

> -VJ

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Wednesday, April 1, 2009 6:56:18 PM

> Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

>

> Dear Vinay,

>

> I would like you to predict here too on the groups so that all could

witness your predictive abilities, which you mentioned in the below

mail. But Computational and Mathematical skills are not required o be

showcased, as I dont think anybody would be interested in that,this

being an astrology Forum and not a maths one.

>

> By the way I am fighting your battle which you began here by trying to

impress on Marg the origin of Indian vedic astrology which you could

not. I have also fought for you in the past without any thanksgivings.

One should go and try proving something which can be proved, or else not

claim about anything. Otherwise one makes a fool of himself. And others

have to defend him with their time and efforts.

>

> Nothing is going to be achieved by proving the origin to anybody. This

is actually a waste of time. Instead of taking up easy and unverifiable

issues , why not pick up some astrological principles and use them

effectively here to show how you can predict so wonderfully as you have

claimed in this mail. In this way the thread can become interesting and

we all can learn from you.

>

> best wishes,

> Bhaskar.

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > A reader in Department of Jyotisha in KSD Sanskrit University tested

me before many scholars. Then the Head of Department of Grammar in the

same university tested me (he asked me a simpler question : 786 raised

to the power 8, which I answered within seconds without using paper or

any tool. Then he replied that I must have used some tricks !!! It is

impossible to satisfy such sceptics. If Sunil ji wants that I should

stop my research work and become a madaari demonstrating my

computational ability, he will be discouraged.

> > I am not Ramanujam, and I acquired some mathematical talents which I

really needed. I learnt logarithmic and antilog tables and a lot more by

rote in early boyhood.

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a

> >

> > Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:32:19 AM

> > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Dear Vinayji,

> >

> > You said that you can compute faster than a computer. In this age

people want proof and do not want to believe in assertions because

anybody can get away with assertions. So may I request you to get your

computing power publicly demonstrated and reliably reported so that

people will not doubt what you say.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> >

> > --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> >

> > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 11:21 AM

> >

> > As I had suspected, Marg entirely missed the points raised by me,

and is deliberately harping on physical proofs of what I say are

metaphysical entities. Bhaskar ji can give her planetary positions

without using any physical tools, and I can demonstrate that I can

compute faster than a computer. Margie is not interested in knowing the

marvels of Vedic astrology, and is more keen on proving the superiority

of non-Indian astrology. Earlier too, I had tried to attract her

attention towards secret methods of Vedic mundane astrology, but to no

avail. Even if someone finds physical evidences of Indian or non-Indian

astrology in 20000000 BC, it will help nobody. Veda and Vedic Astrology

are parts of Eternal Religion (Sanatana Dharma), and religion is

personal experience which can be taught and learnt only through a

guru-shishya tradition. Sterile discussion will lead us nowhere.

> > -VJ

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Bhaskar <bhaskar_jyotish@ .co. in>

> >

> > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:36:16 PM

> > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> >

> > I can give you the planetary positions of any date in future sitting

in

> > a closed room without going to a observatory or physical

observation, or

> > access to any Table, Ephemeris, Computer or Almanac. That must be

enough

> > proof of the Ancient Indian knowledge of observing the heavens, who

had

> > after observing for centuries, and through their intellect ,

developed

> > so much analytical powers that even modern day astrologers like me

can

> > make use of their findings and talk. What more further proof is

> > required ? I can also give geographical proof to a worthy and actual

> > serious enquirist who is unbiased. But otherwise would not like to

> > fritter this knowledge for the sake of some people who may wish to

> > collect this, and write a book in their name, and sell it for money

..

> > But if I show someone a place and tell him that this existed in

2,50000

> > BC, then how many will be able to test this , how many will have the

> > capacity and apparatus to test this. Or are they going to take the

> > bricks for Carbon testing ? For being accessible to such knowledge

one

> > has to be a worthy and unsuspecting invitee who must not have any

qualms

> > of prejudices of " My country " or " Your country " etc.

> >

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , " Marg " <margie9@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hi Vinay

> > > you say:

> > > ''and some concepts of astrology an be traced back torock

paintings of

> > even 30000 BC''

> > > So these torock paintings exist, can be viewed and were first

> > discovered in India?

> > > Is there any other physical evidence in India to show recording of

> > planets or constellations? Pyramids, stone circles, caves with

paintings

> > on the wall, or any other structures at all which demonstrate an

ancient

> > Indian system of observing the heavens pre 250,000 BC?

> > > best wishes

> > > M

> > > -

> > > Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:13 PM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Fine question by Margie. The answer formed gist of my lecture at

> > Kalidasa Academy in April 2008 titled " Contribution of Indian

Astrology

> > To the World Astrology " (in Hindi). The article, in Hindi, can be

read

> > in full at my website. Here I can offer only a brief answer, which

may

> > not satisfy readers.

> > >

> > > Indian Jyotisha is regarded as a Vedaanga (part of Veda). Since

Vedas

> > are said to be composed after 1500 BC, its part cannot predate it.

But

> > proofs of astrology with 12 house concept and other paraphernalia

> > existed in ancient civilizations around 3000 BC, and some concepts

of

> > astrology an be traced back torock paintings of even 30000 BC.

Hence,

> > the very topic " Contribution of Indian Astrology... " is

meaningless,

> > unless we prove that the dating of Vedas should be advanced

> > considerably. This was how I introduced the topic, and then

discussed

> > the unscientific method of comparative linguistics of 19th century

> > linguists. I devoted 12 years in this field. I found no concrete

> > evidence in favour of dating of the Vedas, only opinions were

forwarded.

> > Rgvedic society was believed to be a pastoral one, and was therefore

> > held to be at par with Greeks at the time of Battle of Troy, which

was

> > the earliest known historical event in the West. Hence, 1200 BC was

said

> > to

> > > be the mean date of Rgveda. But when Michael Ventris proved that

> > Mycenaean Greeks enjoyed urban civilization around the middle of 2nd

> > millenium BC, it proved that their pastoral ancestors must have

lived

> > befor 2000 BC. Taking into account the presence of Harappan

> > civilization, Rgvedic civilization could not be possible after 3000

BC,

> > if the logic of 19th century linguists was to be applied.

> > >

> > > Then, I applied the methods of modern linguistics, and assuming

that

> > we do not know which IE branch was more archaic I applied equal

> > weightage to all major IE branches, and took statistical averages

for

> > all consonants and vowels separately, and to my surprize found that

the

> > PIE etymon exactly copied the Vedic form in almost all cases !!!

> > >

> > > Such a result contradicted the prevalent opinion. I had no doubt

in

> > the accuracy of my results, because I checked it again and again for

> > years. For one month, I was profoundly disturbed. Then I decided to

> > carry on my research into historical semantics, and unexpectedly

arrived

> > at far more bizarre conclusions. For instance, there is no root for

> > " brother " in any IE language. In the Rgveda, bhraatr and its

derivatives

> > occur 33 times. At 32 places, it means " Sun " . At 33th instance, it

is

> > used for 'Yama', who is a son of Sun as well as a brother of Yami.

That

> > is why ancient grammarians deduced bhraatr from the root bhraash

which

> > meant " to shine " . the meaning " brother " was a later development, a

> > Laukika (worldly) usage.

> > >

> > > Similarly, Agni was derived from a root which meant " to move

> > tortuously " . The Vedic god Agni was believed to move tortuously to

all

> > worlds, and was therefore believed to fetch oblations to all gods,

and

> > was therefore eulogized as the real purohita. When works were being

> > formed out of roots, physical " fire " was absent, social " brother "

was

> > absent. Only divine terms and meanings were present. Does it mean

that

> > Veda preceded society and world ??? Atheists will laugh at such

ideas,

> > but all ancient grammarians believed so.

> > >

> > > Instead of proving my views, I have put forth the problem. Solve

it.

> > >

> > > Now come to the second proble. The concept of 12 astrological

houses

> > existed in all ancient civilizations, from China and India to Sumer

and

> > Egypt. In most societies, even their names had similar meanings and

> > significances. It points to some common origins. Where is that

common

> > origin???

> > >

> > > Lagna (ascendant) is defined as the rising point of ec loptic at

> > eastern horizon. it symbolizes Body and worldy life. opposite is 7th

> > house, which signifies Kaama (libido). Nishkaama state gives the

state

> > of Videha, and Kaama gives bondage into Deha (flesh). Both have

cause :

> > consequence relation.

> > >

> > > 2nd house is maarkesh, cause of death, and opposite is Death (8th

> > house). Aparigraha and Indriya-nigraha gives deliverance from Death,

> > while wealth and sensory pleasures lead to death. Hence, senses and

> > wealth are related to maarkesh.

> > >

> > > 3rd house is paraakrama (valour, vigour) and opposite is the

result ;

> > bhaagya (Fortune).

> > >

> > > At the foot lies Earth, the mother, and vehicle also lies below

the

> > rider. Hence, 4th house is below. 10th house is heaven, Father,

glory,

> > and the consequence of Land(4th house) in the form of State and

Power.

> > >

> > > 5th house is Vidyaa (knowledge) and opposite is its consequence :

> > > income / profit. 6thy house is enemy or disease and opposite is

its

> > > result : loss.

> > >

> > > Thus, all 12 houses have cause : consequence relation between

> > contrasting and opposite houses. There is a discernible logical

design

> > behind the concept of 12 houses, and this logic was present in the

> > common origin wherefrom this concept spread to other lands.

> > >

> > > The source of this common origin is not difficult to discern. As

shown

> > above, the philosophy of Deha versus Kaama, and Videha versus

Nishkaama

> > underlied the concepts behind first and seventh houses. Similarly,

the

> > ideas of sensory pleasures and wealth being related to cause of

death

> > and renunciation as a means of liberation from the cycles of death

and

> > birth was behind the idea of 2nd and 8th houses. Such a philosophy

> > existed only in India. We cannot find such philosophies elesewhere.

> > >

> > > Now come to the third point : Why physical remains are not found

in

> > India. There are two causes . Their is no dearth of physical remains

> > related to non-Vedic but hindu (ie, Asuric) cultures, but there is a

> > lack of political will to accept the truth. For instance, the state

> > symbol of Magadha was solar chakra consisting of 24 spokes as 24

ritus.

> > It was adopted by Buddhism, and came to be known as Dhamma-chakka,

> > whence modern India adopted it as its emblem. These " experts "

> > deliberately forget that all punched-marked coins of Magadha right

from

> > earliest times contain this sun sign. The concept of 24 ritus is

Vedic.

> > But the second cause is more profound, and less marked. Real experts

of

> > Vedic astrology used Suryasiddhanta whose planets differed from

those of

> > physical astronomy and were believed to be deities , ie conscious

> > elements. Deities could not be seen through human eyes. Hence there

was

> > no need of any observatory & c. But Drikpakshiya astronomy was not

> > > unknown, although it was not used in astrology by most

astrologers.

> > >

> > > It is a mere summary, which will not satisfy many readers. the

proof

> > of Indian astrology is neither logical discussion nor correlation

with

> > physical astronomy, but predictive astrology, which is highly

precise if

> > Suryasiddhantic mathematics is followed.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Marg margie9@

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:42:05 PM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Thankyou for your reply Vinay, you are so obviously an expert on

many

> > cultures. Perhaps you can help me with a query?

> > > As you know there are signs all over the planet of star and moon

> > watching by ancient civilisations, and even astrological practise

which

> > are constantly being rediscovered by archaeology. For instance in

> > Ireland there are caves thought to be inhabited circa 5000 BC which

show

> > careful calculations of moon phases and star knowledge. We know the

> > Egyptians have star diagrams due to the engravings and paintings on

> > pyramid walls possible circa 2500BC and beyond. Reindeer and mammoth

> > tusks found on mainland Europe over 25,000 years old are known to

have

> > notches on them which represent the phases of the moon.

> > > Yet I have no knowledge of anything similar being found in India,

> > which is odd when so many believe astrology was founded there don't

you

> > think?

> > > I wonder if you know where in India there is similar physical

evidence

> > of very early observation of the sky, not in a book, but actual

> > geographically located physical evidence of early skywatching? I

would

> > really appreciate knowing this

> > > thanks

> > > M

> > > -

> > > Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:51 AM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > No. Modern India still preserves the archaic culture and religion

to a

> > great extent, but modern Greece or Iran or Egypt or Mesopotamia

contain

> > only relics of the past. China officially disowns its cultural

roots,

> > and does nor preserve pre-Confucian or pre-Buddhist culture. India

is an

> > exception. Not even 1% of modern Indians fully adhere to the ancient

> > ways, but millions try to adhere to ancient norms...

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Marg margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:10:56 PM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Similarly modern Indians :-)

> > > -

> > > Vinay Jha

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:13 AM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Modern Iranians cannot be said to represent the ancient

Babylonians

> > culturally.

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Marg margie9 (AT) talktalk (DOT) net>

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:22:07 PM

> > > Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Dear R

> > > I think the Babylonians aka Persians aka Iranians are still

delivering

> > readings?

> > > -

> > > Rohiniranjan

> > >

> > > Monday, March 30, 2009 3:21 AM

> > > Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > How many Babylonians are still giving astrology readings to those

who

> > need same?

> > >

> > > How many Indians (by birth, soul-connections or otherwise!) are

doing

> > the same?

> > >

> > > Case closed?

> > >

> > > For me it is! Karma = Action (not speeches and pontifications! )

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

April 1, 2009

Dear Vinay ji,

Even i would prefer a " ji " rather than a " Mr. " .

Anyway, Your software is not being downloaded by 99% of the persons who

are trying to do so. So unless we download your software , You cannot

prove that you know " something " ?

You will certainly need my certificates because I rule the roost on the

Forums, if I may dare say this with some pride of my knowledge.

I am ready to receive knowledge from even a small boy but not from

somebody who just talks and preaches but never practises. I mean who

says that he has got a Kohinoor Diamond, but in reality has just broken

glass pieces in his kitty.

Your books, articles web pages have nothing conclusive to mention or

culminate in, so whats the use of spending few precious hours on them ?

You came with a Big Bang in all the Groups, but what we thought was a

mountain, turned out to be a mole hill.

Now my Dear frioend Mr.Vinay , if you dont wish to prove yourself then

why are you making so much tall claims about the origin of indian

astrology which you cannot prove even to a single member of this Group ?

I had to help you every time. Without my support you would have been

crushed by now. So what have you got ?

Since last 6 months you have been playing the same tune from the broken

guitar string, that " I have got astrological secrets " , but none have

you been able to produce uptil now. You have not been able to prove

whatever you have claimed uptil now. Instead you spoil our name in front

of foreign astrologers like Marg with whom you cant discuss convincingly

but just rattling in the air.

If You are not in a mood to prove, then dont claim.

If You dont have enough stuff to claim, then dont claim.

We will not miss your books or whatever you have removed, because I just

visited your site for once, and that only for 1 minute, because I could

gauge the depth of the knowledge you profess to have.

As regards to abusing you, at least I am not doing this, but have

always helped you, which help you cannot understand, with your present

set up of mind.

I know you have some potential, but unfortunately you have started

selling your mangoes before they have turned ripe.

best wishes,

Bhaskar.

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> Mr Bhaskar wrote : " Mr.Vinay this last part of the message is for you.

I have yet to see

> your proficiency either in Astrology, Astronomy, or Mathematics. You

> have stirred the Hornests nest with no contribution. "

>

> Mr Bhaskar was in good humour for quite some time, but now he appears

to relapse into his former moods. I do not need his certificates. He has

refused to read my books, articles, papers and webpages and says I made

no contribution. Today, I removed my book on Suryasiddhanta and one

article from my webpage due to offensive language of Sunil Bhattacharya

Jee. Now I may remove the rest. Knowledge is not given to abusers. I

never demanded anyone to show his/her capabilities or keep quiet. When I

tried to elaborate (in AIA) the accurate method of Mundane Astrology of

ancient Yaamala Tantras, those very persons prevented any discussion on

astrology who are now asking me to prove my worth. I am in no need to

prove myself. After a lifelong of research, I developed some free

softwares which these persons are under an oath not to use, and are

asking me to prove my worth. If I am worthless, ask the moderators to

ban me. I will teach my methods only to my

> disciples, never to those who had predicted that I will sell my free

softwares in future.

>

> -VJ

>

> ________________________________

> Bhaskar bhaskar_jyotish

>

> Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:43:08 PM

> Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

>

> The Dating of Ramayana

>

> First of all, I remind those who have read the Ramayana here, that

Jyotish does have a reference in Ramayana, and not just at one place,

but more than one . If the Ramayana is to be believed, then the bridge

made over Lanka is to be believed.

>

> If the bridge over Lanka is to be believed , then the Adams bridge

discovered by NASA , is to be believed. And if NASA is to be believed

then the dates given by the Worlds best authorities about the time this

bridge was built, is also to be believed, which matches with the Ramayan

occurrence. And all authorities are univocal in confirming that this

bridge cannot be built naturally.Such a clear proof than what the whole

world has seen, defies skeptics and dis belief any which way.

>

> Now can anyone bring us better and pre-dated references than this to

> disapprove India's sovereignty in being the King of astrology ?

>

> Those who have read the Bhagawat know the reference of Jyotish

mentioned therein. Those who do not believe in Krishna would now have to

take an about turn since archeological discoveries are in fact

confirming the underwater city through their findings .

>

> Can Marg produce better references then these to claim that the West

knew about astrology much before the Indians ?

>

> But before that, I suppose we would be asked wheres the signboard on

the Adams bridge, written that it was the same bridge, and may also

probably ask us additionally whether the Ramayana is authentic. And we

are good people so we will never ask about the authenticity of the

Bible, because I do believe in Jesus and love him probably more than

Christians do.

>

> Or they may ask us how can You prove that the underwater city

discovered in Dwarka is Krishnas city. And we may also be asked to prove

that the Bhagwat was written by the ancients and not the modern day

authors.

>

> Which is why I say that do not fall in trap of trying to impress the

fairer sex, and neither try to show the greatness of your country or the

origins of something which you have not studied about, properly. learn a

subject properly before you try to attract somebody's attention and put

your theories upon. If You have some light

> then the brightness would be seen around you. No need to

> prove it or show case it. Mr.Vinay this last part of the message is

for you. I have yet to see your proficiency either in Astrology,

Astronomy, or Mathematics. You have stirred the Hornests nest with no

contribution, and no strong argument to take the None believers, which I

have to settle for the dignity of my country, culture and love for

astrology , single handedly.

>

> regards/Bhaskar.

>

> , " Bhaskar " <bhaskar_jyotish@

....> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinay,

> >

> > I would like you to predict here too on the groups so that all could

witness your predictive abilities, which you mentioned in the below

mail. But Computational and Mathematical skills are not required o be

showcased, as I dont think anybody would be interested in that,this

being an astrology Forum and not a maths one.

> >

> > By the way I am fighting your battle which you began here by trying

to impress on Marg the origin of Indian vedic astrology which you could

not. I have also fought for you in the past without any thanksgivings.

One should go and try proving something which can be proved, or else not

claim about anything. Otherwise one makes a fool of himself. And others

have to defend him with their time and efforts.

> >

> > Nothing is going to be achieved by proving the origin to anybody.

This is actually a waste of time. Instead of taking up easy and

unverifiable issues , why not pick up some astrological principles and

use them effectively here to show how you can predict so wonderfully as

you have claimed in this mail. In this way the thread can become

interesting and we all can learn from you.

> >

> > best wishes,

> > Bhaskar.

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

wrote:

> > >

> > > A reader in Department of Jyotisha in KSD Sanskrit University

tested me before many scholars. Then the Head of Department of Grammar

in the same university tested me (he asked me a simpler question : 786

raised to the power 8, which I answered within seconds without using

paper or any tool. Then he replied that I must have used some tricks !!!

It is impossible to satisfy such sceptics. If Sunil ji wants that I

should stop my research work and become a madaari demonstrating my

computational ability, he will be discouraged.

> > > I am not Ramanujam, and I acquired some mathematical talents which

I really needed. I learnt logarithmic and antilog tables and a lot more

by rote in early boyhood.

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a@>

> > >

> > > Wednesday, April 1, 2009 3:32:19 AM

> > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Dear Vinayji,

> > >

> > > You said that you can compute faster than a computer. In this age

people want proof and do not want to believe in assertions because

anybody can get away with assertions. So may I request you to get your

computing power publicly demonstrated and reliably reported so that

people will not doubt what you say.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

> > >

> > > --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

> > > Re: Re: Greeks vs Indians <HOLY JEUS!>

> > >

> > > Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 11:21 AM

> > >

> > > As I had suspected, Marg entirely missed the points raised by me,