Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Neelamji, for some students, a piece of advice by the teacher is enough. for others a standing footruler on the knuckles brings in the understanding. For me perception is enough to believe. For others it is - to see to believe. What about the poor blind people. How would they believe anything at all, in their lives with this reasoning, when they cannot see. This is actuallty a waste of time. i dont know why i am indulging in this. regards, bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskar-ji, Renu-ji and other members, I am not much in to religion or spirituality. However, the basic concept of Karma and its Phala intrigues me. Is it necessary that someone who is getting raped at present must have raped himself in past life ? It may be the case where the person did not commit rape in past life, but was in a position to prevent a rape/rape like situation which he/she did not prevent. Similarly, in many situations we look the other way, because that suits us. May be we are also sowing something to reap at later time. Like, in a democracy, we are sometimes urging the government to wage war .. or to be 'strict' to deal with some problems. Are not we a party to the sufferings faced by people due to those actions to some extent ? Like we have done in tackling insurgencies or Sri Lanka has done to curb Tamil nationalism. regards Chakraborty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Chakroborty Sahab, It is not necessary for what You said. it may be a new or naveen karma too from the perpetrators side on an unsuspecting victim who may be paying for some other reasons aforesaid in your mail,. The example I gave was just to bring home a point of karma phala. nobody can say with certainity except brahma what the person who got raped must have indulged in what karma , to face the rape as a result in this Life. She m ay have been a silent part or a helper to the perpetrator, or a silent witness or whatever. god knows. We must look at the essence of what is talked about and not bother about the details which are unconsequential to be checked. what we sow so we reap. jaisi karni waisi bharni sums it all. regards. bhaskar. , " Chakraborty, PL " <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar-ji, Renu-ji and other members, > > I am not much in to religion or spirituality. However, > the basic concept of Karma and its Phala intrigues me. > > Is it necessary that someone who is getting raped at present > must have raped himself in past life ? > > It may be the case where the person did not commit rape in past life, > but was in a position to prevent a rape/rape like situation which > he/she did not prevent. > > Similarly, in many situations we look the other way, because > that suits us. May be we are also sowing something to reap at > later time. Like, in a democracy, we are sometimes urging the > government to wage war .. or to be 'strict' to deal with some problems. > Are not we a party to the sufferings faced by people due to those actions > to some extent ? > > Like we have done in tackling insurgencies or Sri Lanka has done to > curb Tamil nationalism. > > regards > > Chakraborty > > > > > Bhaskar [rajiventerprises] > Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:25 PM > > Re: who knows God? > Dear Renuji, > > My Comments in Red. > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > I will try my best with the little knowledge I have to answer you. You MUST > keep in mind, though I am a Buddhist by birth, by religion, may be by > knowledge too ..I have not SEEN Buddha yet. > > ) Show me where he is acting deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocent. > > I'll mention one or two cases. When a girl is being raped, where is god to > protect her? When a malnourished starving child cries for a drop of water, > why cannot god create a fountain of pure water? When a woman who tolls day & > night to feed her family is beaten by the husband who only knows to use the > hard earned money on liquor, why cannot god protect that woman? Buddha > cannot do these things as he was a human being and he is no more. > > In your further comments below, you talk of the theory of karma. That should > explain why the above happens. Why must god come in between the culmination > of some karma, enforced by the individual Himself ? The girl who is now > raped, must have raped someone in her past janma as a man. The women who is > now beaten, must have nbeaten her own partner in previous janma . can you > vouch that this is not the case ? > > 2) Prove me that they are innocent, who are crying. > > Innocence can have different meanings and a person may be innocent for one > thing and guilty of another thing. Of course in the case of a raped victim, > I will surely succeed in proving her innocence in a court of law. In the > case of a child, yes, who knows not nothing of the evils of this world...is > obviously innocent. Why should it be deprived of basic needs, if there is a > god? Why would a woman get beaten by a drunkard? If she works in good faith, > through sheer love she has for her kids & husband, of what crime is she > guilty to get beaten by her husband? > > Again the same things have been repeated by you. my answer would be the > same. Check your further comments in this mail. You have yourself said about > Karma, which explains all above happennings. > > 3 ) Give me the reasons why some children are born healthy and the others > crippled, or blind or whatever. > > Of course...karma is the answer. We Buddhists accept 'karma theory' In > Buddhist theory of 'kamma' /karma it has a specific meaning; it means only > 'volitional action', not all action. Karma and its effects are two things. > Effects are known as the kamma phala or kamma vipaka. Good karma produces > good effects and bad karma produces bad effects. The theory of kamma in > Buddhism is the thoery of cause and effect, the theory of action and > reaction. Ther result is not a punishment/judgement imposed by a Supreme > being. One is responsible for one's own action. Now you will say in the > above mentioned 2nd case, the vicitms had to suffer because of their past > bad kammas. True...that is what exactly Buddhism says. I am asking if god is > omnipresent, where is he when these things happen? Why would god let his own > creations suffer? OK. One would say that he created them equal. If so how > come they act differently? If they were created equally how come they have > different minds or different consciousness? > > You yourself talk of karma and then say why should god allow all this to > happen / Who is He to allow criminal activities ? Yes in the starting he had > created all of us equal. He had been kind enough to give us " vivek buddhi " > which we dont utilise, but sopend our time and energies in pleasures. He is > not controlling our actions. we are free to smoke a cvigarette, have a > drink, have a affair with the neighbours wife or husband, and do whatever we > like. If he gives us these liberties then these come with some rules, that > we personally would be liable of the consequences of our actions which would > follow. okay ? > > 4) Why some live a long Life while some children die early at age 5 or 10. > > Same answer as above. Those who destroy the lives of other beings may have > short lives in another birth. > > Again you are accepting the theory of Karma, then why other talks of god not > coming to help ? > > 5) Why dont we fall of from the Earth or why does the Earth itself not fall > off from space. if it is gravitational theory then can they repeat this > revolution and rotation in a scientific Labarotary with few balls as planets > ? If it is Big Bang theory then why are the planets rotating at the same > speed and not slowing down ? Try to create a big bang again and see whether > the pieces are round in looks and whether they keep on revolving for lakhs > of year in the manner Our Planets in the Solar system are revolving. Please > explaion this who is keeping this perfect alignment in place. > > This is what Buddha explained as Dhamma niyama. That is order of the norm, > e.g., the natural phenomena occurring at the advent of a Bodhisatta in his > last birth, gravitation, etc. Anyway let me mention here that Buddha wanted > his disciples to concetrate on dhamma and not on these metaphysical things. > He taught what was essential to attain nirvana/moksha. > > Then what is moksha if not attaining the Formless God ? > > 6) Why are you not able to repeat Lord Ganesha drinking milk today ? > > Kindly tell me what this is about. I am truly ignorant and would love to > know. > > Some other time. > > 7) I also wish to know why do people worship Buddha statues ? is he there ? > If he is there then I would like to see him. Show me the Buddha You worship, > and I promise i will show you God. You do the above, then I will show you > God. > > No Buddha is not there. Buddha is not anymore even in a heavenly abode. He > was a human being like you and I. He passed away more than 2500 years ago. > Hence I cannot show someone who in not anymore anywhere in any form. > > If he is not there then why do You worship him ? ( You may not know but then > I am a better buddhist then you. Because i worship buddha whenever i pass > through his temples and statues , and i believe that He is there , and not > gone anywhere. ) > > Yes, people worship Buddha Statues. Not because they think that Buddha is > there. It is in the form of a gesture of respect similar to that we pay to > our parents, elders, gurus. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested > gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to > develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us > of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of > knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of > impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what > his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship. > > The problem is that what the Buddhism of yesteryears was, is no more today. > > > I agree. The fables, tales may be manipulated, changed, distorted. But > Buddha's basic teaching is applicable even today. It is the Truth. > > Agreed. > > I am sure it has become corrupted down the ages. > > May be Buddhism. But not Buddha's teaching of the Four Noble Truths and the > Eightfold path. > > Agreed. > > I do not think Buddha did not worship God. This is all nonsense. All great > Saints and Mahapurusha, accept a superior divinity pervading. > > On the other hand God worshipped Buddha. Gods invited Buddha to be born in > the earth. He looked for 5 things to confirm that it was the right time for > a Buddha to be born in earth. Time, Country, Place, Caste, and Mother. > Well....he chose India! Maha Brhama reminded Prince Siddhartha that it was > the right time for renunciation, when he was reluctant to leave his lovely > wife Yashodara and newly born son Rahula. When Prince Siddhartha attained > Buddhahood, Maha Brahma and other gods were overjoyed and worshipped him and > invited him to preach his 1st discourse. > > So ultimately you have accepted that God is there, because if in Buddhas > time God was there, then He must be, now too. > > If Buddha is there, then God too is there. I would like to see Buddha first > from those worshippers of Buddha, before they ask me to show God to them. > > I answered this. I cannot show somebody who is no more. Buddha passed away > not to be born ever again. Not even in any heaven. Buddha was not only a > human being, he claimed no inspiration from any god or external power > either. He attributed all his realization, attainments and achievements to > human endeavour and human intelligence. A man and only a man can become a > Buddha. Every man has within himself the potentiality of becoming a Buddha, > if he wills it and endeavours. Man is his own master, and there is no > higher being or power that sits in judgment over his destiny. > > I don't demand anyone to show me god. It would not help me to achieve my > goals. Only through Buddha's teachings ..will I achieve my goal one > day...may be not in this birth...may be in thousand or more births later. > > No comments. > > This was Buddha's last words before he passed away. " Yo dhamma passathi, so > man passathi " . Meaning, " One who sees dhamma would see me. " > > When his followers like you say that He is no more, then how would his words > come ture, if you become a buddha someday. > > I would also like to know why is he deaf and dumb to the cries of the > innocents. > > Sorry, I told you he is no more to save anyone. Neither did he save anyone > while he was alive. He only showed the path for others to follow. So this > question is not contextual or relevant as far as Buddha is concerned. No > one else but one is answerable for one's own actions. > > You do not know much about him unfortunately. He has saved hundreds in his > time too from many maladies, and i am not talking of saving a soul , I am > talking physical saving. > > Trust me..I respect all religions. After all what matters is how we live > > Yes i trust you are religious. > > blessings > > Renu > > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Neelam ji, Bhaskar ji and others, This is my final on this. As Neelam ji says going on and on with this is futile. That is what exactly what Buddha said. Not to waste time on meaningless things ......but to follow his dhamma if anyone wanted to find the Truth. Otherwise what would happen is, finally we'll die wondering about answerless questions. A life will be just wasted. I don't think Bhaskar ji knows what Buddhism is at all. How many times I've got to explain that karma is the cause of many things but it is not the only cause. Gravitation, rain, wind, etc. etc. are not results of karma. Buddha made it very clear. Yes, we Buddhists accept or rather believe that gods are present. But we do not worship god. Instead we invoke blessings of our meritorious deeds to gods as well. We believe that they need merit to be born in the human world in order to attain nirvana finally. So it is no big issue or a weakness in my argument that I explained Prince Siddhartha's birth, renunciation, enlightenment and Maha brahma's intervention on those occassions. I explained to Bhaskar ji why Buddhists worship Buddha statues. Yet you ask me why then we worship if Buddha is not there. I repeat my answer..There is no Buddha hidden in those statues waiting to catch us doing some wrongful act....like our local traffic policemen who hide themselves and suddenly jump at the vehicle to charge you for speeding. Yes, we worship Buddha Statues. Not because we think that Buddha is there. It is in the form of a gesture of respect similar to that we pay to our parents, elders, gurus. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship. WE DO NOT worship something blindly. There is a reason for it. Finally let me tell you that Buddha was a human being like you and me. But he strived hard ..birth after birth and attained Buddha hood in his last birth with immense compassion towards other living beings. When I said that he did not help anyone while he was alive, I meant that he could not force his dharma/teachings into anyones head. He preached dhamma and invited anyone interested to see it and practice it. Yes, not see it from eyes. See it from the mind's eye so that even a blind man would see dhamma. I am not religious if being religious means going to the temple often, listening to dhamma talks often, observing 8 precepts often etc. etc. No unfortunately I am not that. On the other hand if being religious means, giving a hand to the helpless, sick and old, giving my plate of rice to a hungry man and foregoing a meal or more, emptying my pocket to someone need even if that was the last coin in my possession...yes..I am religious. I love Hinduism especially because of nice people I got to know through this forum. I gained a good idea of who a good Hindu is. There is not much difference in Dhamma taught in both. Only the approach is different. blessings Renu , "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:>> Dear Bhaskar-ji, Renu-ji and other members,> > I am not much in to religion or spirituality. However,> the basic concept of Karma and its Phala intrigues me.> > Is it necessary that someone who is getting raped at present> must have raped himself in past life ?> > It may be the case where the person did not commit rape in past life,> but was in a position to prevent a rape/rape like situation which> he/she did not prevent. > > Similarly, in many situations we look the other way, because> that suits us. May be we are also sowing something to reap at > later time. Like, in a democracy, we are sometimes urging the> government to wage war .. or to be 'strict' to deal with some problems.> Are not we a party to the sufferings faced by people due to those actions> to some extent ? > > Like we have done in tackling insurgencies or Sri Lanka has done to> curb Tamil nationalism.> > regards> > Chakraborty> > > > > Bhaskar [rajiventerprises]> Wednesday, July 30, 2008 1:25 PM> > Re: who knows God?> > > > > > > > Dear Renuji,> > My Comments in Red.> > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > I will try my best with the little knowledge I have to answer you. You MUST> keep in mind, though I am a Buddhist by birth, by religion, may be by> knowledge too ..I have not SEEN Buddha yet. > > ) Show me where he is acting deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocent.> > I'll mention one or two cases. When a girl is being raped, where is god to> protect her? When a malnourished starving child cries for a drop of water,> why cannot god create a fountain of pure water? When a woman who tolls day & > night to feed her family is beaten by the husband who only knows to use the> hard earned money on liquor, why cannot god protect that woman? Buddha> cannot do these things as he was a human being and he is no more.> > In your further comments below, you talk of the theory of karma. That should> explain why the above happens. Why must god come in between the culmination> of some karma, enforced by the individual Himself ? The girl who is now> raped, must have raped someone in her past janma as a man. The women who is> now beaten, must have nbeaten her own partner in previous janma . can you> vouch that this is not the case ?> > 2) Prove me that they are innocent, who are crying. > > Innocence can have different meanings and a person may be innocent for one> thing and guilty of another thing. Of course in the case of a raped victim,> I will surely succeed in proving her innocence in a court of law. In the> case of a child, yes, who knows not nothing of the evils of this world...is> obviously innocent. Why should it be deprived of basic needs, if there is a> god? Why would a woman get beaten by a drunkard? If she works in good faith,> through sheer love she has for her kids & husband, of what crime is she> guilty to get beaten by her husband? > > Again the same things have been repeated by you. my answer would be the> same. Check your further comments in this mail. You have yourself said about> Karma, which explains all above happennings. > > 3 ) Give me the reasons why some children are born healthy and the others> crippled, or blind or whatever.> > Of course...karma is the answer. We Buddhists accept 'karma theory' In> Buddhist theory of 'kamma' /karma it has a specific meaning; it means only> 'volitional action', not all action. Karma and its effects are two things.> Effects are known as the kamma phala or kamma vipaka. Good karma produces> good effects and bad karma produces bad effects. The theory of kamma in> Buddhism is the thoery of cause and effect, the theory of action and> reaction. Ther result is not a punishment/judgement imposed by a Supreme> being. One is responsible for one's own action. Now you will say in the> above mentioned 2nd case, the vicitms had to suffer because of their past> bad kammas. True...that is what exactly Buddhism says. I am asking if god is> omnipresent, where is he when these things happen? Why would god let his own> creations suffer? OK. One would say that he created them equal. If so how> come they act differently? If they were created equally how come they have> different minds or different consciousness?> > You yourself talk of karma and then say why should god allow all this to> happen / Who is He to allow criminal activities ? Yes in the starting he had> created all of us equal. He had been kind enough to give us " vivek buddhi "> which we dont utilise, but sopend our time and energies in pleasures. He is> not controlling our actions. we are free to smoke a cvigarette, have a> drink, have a affair with the neighbours wife or husband, and do whatever we> like. If he gives us these liberties then these come with some rules, that> we personally would be liable of the consequences of our actions which would> follow. okay ?> > 4) Why some live a long Life while some children die early at age 5 or 10.> > Same answer as above. Those who destroy the lives of other beings may have> short lives in another birth.> > Again you are accepting the theory of Karma, then why other talks of god not> coming to help ?> > 5) Why dont we fall of from the Earth or why does the Earth itself not fall> off from space. if it is gravitational theory then can they repeat this> revolution and rotation in a scientific Labarotary with few balls as planets> ? If it is Big Bang theory then why are the planets rotating at the same> speed and not slowing down ? Try to create a big bang again and see whether> the pieces are round in looks and whether they keep on revolving for lakhs> of year in the manner Our Planets in the Solar system are revolving. Please> explaion this who is keeping this perfect alignment in place. > > This is what Buddha explained as Dhamma niyama. That is order of the norm,> e.g., the natural phenomena occurring at the advent of a Bodhisatta in his> last birth, gravitation, etc. Anyway let me mention here that Buddha wanted> his disciples to concetrate on dhamma and not on these metaphysical things.> He taught what was essential to attain nirvana/moksha. > > Then what is moksha if not attaining the Formless God ?> > 6) Why are you not able to repeat Lord Ganesha drinking milk today ? > > Kindly tell me what this is about. I am truly ignorant and would love to> know.> > Some other time.> > 7) I also wish to know why do people worship Buddha statues ? is he there ?> If he is there then I would like to see him. Show me the Buddha You worship,> and I promise i will show you God. You do the above, then I will show you> God.> > No Buddha is not there. Buddha is not anymore even in a heavenly abode. He> was a human being like you and I. He passed away more than 2500 years ago.> Hence I cannot show someone who in not anymore anywhere in any form. > > If he is not there then why do You worship him ? ( You may not know but then> I am a better buddhist then you. Because i worship buddha whenever i pass> through his temples and statues , and i believe that He is there , and not> gone anywhere. ) > > Yes, people worship Buddha Statues. Not because they think that Buddha is> there. It is in the form of a gesture of respect similar to that we pay to> our parents, elders, gurus. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested> gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to> develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us> of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of> knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of> impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what> his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship.> > The problem is that what the Buddhism of yesteryears was, is no more today.> > > I agree. The fables, tales may be manipulated, changed, distorted. But> Buddha's basic teaching is applicable even today. It is the Truth. > > Agreed.> > I am sure it has become corrupted down the ages. > > May be Buddhism. But not Buddha's teaching of the Four Noble Truths and the> Eightfold path.> > Agreed. > > I do not think Buddha did not worship God. This is all nonsense. All great> Saints and Mahapurusha, accept a superior divinity pervading. > > On the other hand God worshipped Buddha. Gods invited Buddha to be born in> the earth. He looked for 5 things to confirm that it was the right time for> a Buddha to be born in earth. Time, Country, Place, Caste, and Mother.> Well....he chose India! Maha Brhama reminded Prince Siddhartha that it was> the right time for renunciation, when he was reluctant to leave his lovely> wife Yashodara and newly born son Rahula. When Prince Siddhartha attained> Buddhahood, Maha Brahma and other gods were overjoyed and worshipped him and> invited him to preach his 1st discourse. > > So ultimately you have accepted that God is there, because if in Buddhas> time God was there, then He must be, now too. > > If Buddha is there, then God too is there. I would like to see Buddha first> from those worshippers of Buddha, before they ask me to show God to them.> > I answered this. I cannot show somebody who is no more. Buddha passed away> not to be born ever again. Not even in any heaven. Buddha was not only a> human being, he claimed no inspiration from any god or external power> either. He attributed all his realization, attainments and achievements to> human endeavour and human intelligence. A man and only a man can become a> Buddha. Every man has within himself the potentiality of becoming a Buddha,> if he wills it and endeavours. Man is his own master, and there is no> higher being or power that sits in judgment over his destiny. > > I don't demand anyone to show me god. It would not help me to achieve my> goals. Only through Buddha's teachings ..will I achieve my goal one> day...may be not in this birth...may be in thousand or more births later.> > No comments.> > This was Buddha's last words before he passed away. "Yo dhamma passathi, so> man passathi" . Meaning, "One who sees dhamma would see me. "> > When his followers like you say that He is no more, then how would his words> come ture, if you become a buddha someday. > > I would also like to know why is he deaf and dumb to the cries of the> innocents. > > Sorry, I told you he is no more to save anyone. Neither did he save anyone> while he was alive. He only showed the path for others to follow. So this> question is not contextual or relevant as far as Buddha is concerned. No> one else but one is answerable for one's own actions.> > You do not know much about him unfortunately. He has saved hundreds in his> time too from many maladies, and i am not talking of saving a soul , I am> talking physical saving. > > Trust me..I respect all religions. After all what matters is how we live > > Yes i trust you are religious. > > blessings> > Renu> > > > > > This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway. The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji,Unfortunately, logic does not work in the matters of faith and belief. Where belief starts, logic stops. That is why every time I said something on such topics, I clearly stated that it is my belief - meaning please don't ask me to prove the same. I just shared my belief. I understand that likewise others too will have their own beliefs. Logic is incapable of changing beliefs, including my own.For logic to work, both parties should believe in the same fundamentals.Regards,Krishna--- On Wed, 30/7/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote:Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: who knows God?To: Date: Wednesday, 30 July, 2008, 3:18 PM Dear Neelamji, for some students, a piece of advice by the teacher is enough. for others a standing footruler on the knuckles brings in the understanding. For me perception is enough to believe. For others it is - to see to believe. What about the poor blind people. How would they believe anything at all, in their lives with this reasoning, when they cannot see. This is actuallty a waste of time. i dont know why i am indulging in this. regards, bhaskar. Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Click here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Renuji, I know you are a religious person. No doubt about it. I dont know about Buddhism. That may be right or not right is not the issue. i love Buddha is what matters to me. i know He is still there in the form of Vishnu for me, whom we worship. I love Him because he is a incarnation of Vishnu. i love him also because i was enamoured by his story in my childhood and carried it to my heart, and still. I love him because he had the power to throw off the pleasures after having got them ( Unlike those who may become satsangis nowadays after getting a slap from their wives and have nothing to hold to, at their homes ). i love him because he got realisation. i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no person who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the Formless but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, or a new thread would start again ). I am happier being a non buddhist because i can Love both jesus, allah as well as vishnu, though my preferences would of course, and must remain towards Vishnu being born in a vaishnava family. Sorry if I ever offended you, but i enjoyed discussing with you. it was a one sided affair though. My Shift button is not working properly on the keybboard so please neglect the capitals coming up in small case. regards, bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear krishnamurthyji, Thanks for this good advice. I wish you had given this to me earlier and saved me all the time and energy spent. I will remember to put the clause there next time, which you advised me, so that it would save further discussions. thanks once again, bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji, First of all sorry for the capitals, a weakness in my horoscope I admit.....and extremely sorry if I offended you. Now you write with lot of compassion and humility and let me return it to you. I really do respect all religions..there is only a slight margin of demarcation between all these. I didn't know much about Hinduism. But being in this group...I learnt how beautiful Hinduism could be ....may be not directly...but I saw it in the writings of some members. This is all that matters...being good human beings. See, when a good Hindu astrologer asks me to chant Maha Mritunjaya Mantra on behalf of my son, I would do so. What happens is in the presence of bad luck for someone whom I love, I become weak. So, I seek the blessings of God Shiva in addition to the blessings of the Noble Triple Gem. Many Buddhists go to Hindu Kovils/temples to seek guidance and blessings of gods. Even I go and worship them. I also invoke blessings on them according to Buddhist customs. Earlier I was on the opinion that some slokas in Bhagavath Geetha were copied from Buddha's words. But then I learnt from Sreeram ji that Bhagavath Geetha was written long before Buddha's birth. I even argued about this with a Buddhist monk saying that some dhamma preached by Buddha was written in Bhagavath Geetha too. He refused to accept. But fortunately this particular monk is reading for a Buddisht Philosophy degree....and later when he learnt about it he acknowledged the fact. We are susceptible to 'Truth'. Well, sir, there is no point we mortals arguing with each other for these minor matters. Of course it was interesting and not one sided:) In short..after all there was nothing to argue about. You say there is a god, I accept it. You believe in karma and I too believe in karma. Only difference is according to Hinduism, Buddha is an incarnation of Vishnu. But according to Buddhism he was a human being like you and I. But does it matter? What matters is the Dhamma he taught or Dhamma written in Hindu scriputres. If you are a good Hindu...no doubt you are...you will love and respect mankind and if I am a good Buddhist I will also do likewise. So let's get together and make sure that world will be a better place for the generations to come Now...why don't we go back to astrology? May be Neelam ji come up with a blind chart exercise. blessings Renu , " Bhaskar " <rajiventerprises wrote: > > Dear Renuji, > > I know you are a religious person. No doubt about it. > > I dont know about Buddhism. That may be right or not right is not the > issue. i love Buddha is what matters to me. i know He is still there > in the form of Vishnu for me, whom we worship. > > I love Him because he is a incarnation of Vishnu. i love him also > because i was enamoured by his story in my childhood and carried it to > my heart, and still. I love him because he had the power to throw off > the pleasures after having got them ( Unlike those who may become > satsangis nowadays after getting a slap from their wives and have > nothing to hold to, at their homes ). i love him because he got > realisation. > > i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no person > who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the Formless > but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, or a > new thread would start again ). > > I am happier being a non buddhist because i can Love both jesus, allah > as well as vishnu, though my preferences would of course, and must > remain towards Vishnu being born in a vaishnava family. > > Sorry if I ever offended you, but i enjoyed discussing with you. it was > a one sided affair though. > > My Shift button is not working properly on the keybboard so please > neglect the capitals coming up in small case. > > regards, > > bhaskar. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Friends, Faith and logic operate from differnt parts of the brain. Logic operates from left side of the brain, where we use the intellect. Faith operates from the heart, hence right side of the brain. Here is no logic. People mix up the two and get confused.Men are generally left-brained and women are generally right-brained.For creativity, healing ,right-brain comes into play.Hence women make good healers,because they emote very well. Men who develop , creativity ir are creative are generally right-brained. Hence described as eccentric. In meditation too, letting go means, avoiding use of intellect, meaning logic. Be an observer,is the centre of all meditative techniques. This is what we practice in both healing and also in meditation. Purely my perception and belief. Regards, Satish. , " Bhaskar " <rajiventerprises wrote: > > Dear krishnamurthyji, > > Thanks for this good advice. I wish you had given this to me earlier and > saved me all the time and energy spent. > > I will remember to put the clause there next time, which you advised me, > so that it would save further discussions. > > thanks once again, > > bhaskar. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 I do, through Chaneling, but only as much as He-She reveals Themselves to me, but this is not the forum to discuss such things. Dinesh. , " neelam gupta " <neelamgupta07 wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > The debate about what is God, cannot lead anywhere. One can fill pages and > pages on trying to explain what is God, yet not reach anywhere near the > truth. > > God…the cosmic principle… the eternal energy… the driving force… the truth… > give it whatever you may like, yet we are like blind men trying to see what > an elephant looks like… all may be right, yet not right. All have a > knowledge but yet do not know. What we call knowledge always comes from > outside, whereas 'knowing' always comes from within. We can obtain the > knowledge of God from books and sermons but not the " knowing " of God; that > has to come from within. There is a difference between knowledge and > knowing. Knowledge makes a man learned but not wise. Wisdom comes only by > knowing – knowing oneself. > > This is the greatest problem in life: those who, know, need no explanation > and there is no way of explaining to those who do not know. In trying to > explain to the latter, more problems are created. What is known, is always > known from within; and what is imparted, may only be superficial knowledge. > > A man may read all the books on swimming. He may become an authority on all > the information regarding swimming. He may even qualify to lecture on the > subject – but do not ever push him into water, for whatever his > qualifications, he cannot swim! To know swimming and to know about it, are > two entirely different things. It is quite possible that one who knows > swimming may be unable to explain it. He might say: " All I know is that I > jump into water and – I swim! You too, will swim if you jump. If you insist > on him larifying his statement, one will say: " How is it possible to speak > about it? I can jump in the water and demonstrate. What discussion can there > be in the matter of swimming? " > > So also, we can know about God but that is not knowing God. There is a great > number of such learned pundits amongst us who know about God, but where are > those who " know " God? > > Regards > Neelam > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 dear Renuji, Thanks for the lovely post. Just to keep the record straight , buddhism and janism are branches of the same tree, hinduism. regards, Bhaskar. , " renunw " <renunw wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > First of all sorry for the capitals, a weakness in my horoscope I > admit.....and extremely sorry if I offended you. > > Now you write with lot of compassion and humility and let me return > it to you. > > I really do respect all religions..there is only a slight margin of > demarcation between all these. I didn't know much about Hinduism. > But being in this group...I learnt how beautiful Hinduism could > be ....may be not directly...but I saw it in the writings of some > members. This is all that matters...being good human beings. > > See, when a good Hindu astrologer asks me to chant Maha Mritunjaya > Mantra on behalf of my son, I would do so. What happens is in the > presence of bad luck for someone whom I love, I become weak. So, I > seek the blessings of God Shiva in addition to the blessings of the > Noble Triple Gem. Many Buddhists go to Hindu Kovils/temples to seek > guidance and blessings of gods. Even I go and worship them. I also > invoke blessings on them according to Buddhist customs. > > Earlier I was on the opinion that some slokas in Bhagavath Geetha > were copied from Buddha's words. But then I learnt from Sreeram ji > that Bhagavath Geetha was written long before Buddha's birth. I even > argued about this with a Buddhist monk saying that some dhamma > preached by Buddha was written in Bhagavath Geetha too. He refused > to accept. But fortunately this particular monk is reading for a > Buddisht Philosophy degree....and later when he learnt about it he > acknowledged the fact. We are susceptible to 'Truth'. > > Well, sir, there is no point we mortals arguing with each other for > these minor matters. Of course it was interesting and not one > sided:) > > In short..after all there was nothing to argue about. You say there > is a god, I accept it. > > You believe in karma and I too believe in karma. > > Only difference is according to Hinduism, Buddha is an incarnation > of Vishnu. But according to Buddhism he was a human being like you > and I. But does it matter? What matters is the Dhamma he taught or > Dhamma written in Hindu scriputres. > > If you are a good Hindu...no doubt you are...you will love and > respect mankind and if I am a good Buddhist I will also do likewise. > So let's get together and make sure that world will be a better > place for the generations to come > > Now...why don't we go back to astrology? May be Neelam ji come up > with a blind chart exercise. > > blessings > > Renu > > , " Bhaskar " > rajiventerprises@ wrote: > > > > Dear Renuji, > > > > I know you are a religious person. No doubt about it. > > > > I dont know about Buddhism. That may be right or not right is not > the > > issue. i love Buddha is what matters to me. i know He is still > there > > in the form of Vishnu for me, whom we worship. > > > > I love Him because he is a incarnation of Vishnu. i love him also > > because i was enamoured by his story in my childhood and carried > it to > > my heart, and still. I love him because he had the power to throw > off > > the pleasures after having got them ( Unlike those who may become > > satsangis nowadays after getting a slap from their wives and have > > nothing to hold to, at their homes ). i love him because he got > > realisation. > > > > i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no > person > > who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the > Formless > > but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, > or a > > new thread would start again ). > > > > I am happier being a non buddhist because i can Love both jesus, > allah > > as well as vishnu, though my preferences would of course, and must > > remain towards Vishnu being born in a vaishnava family. > > > > Sorry if I ever offended you, but i enjoyed discussing with you. > it was > > a one sided affair though. > > > > My Shift button is not working properly on the keybboard so please > > neglect the capitals coming up in small case. > > > > regards, > > > > bhaskar. > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Neelam ji,==>Reasoning is only a preparation for what is beyond reasoning. But reasoning only takes us into an area of darkness. We must go beyond reasoning in order to reach it. We need to perceive beyond our known dimensions.<== That is something which is easy to say and difficult to do. It is said that it is easy to speak about music but certainly difficult to sing beautifully - it demands 'hard continuous effort'; continuous cultivation of consciousness! Love and regards,Sreenadh , "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Renuji and Bhaskarji,> > Please permit me to interrupt your interesting dialogue.> > It appears to me as if you're peeling an onion layer by layer... the process> goes on and on... you can peel out thicker layers, thinner layers or even> microlayers (which we learnt to do in school while making the slide of an> onion peel and the peel could be visible only under a microscope)... all> depending on your capability and experience.> > In the end what will you get? Nothing?> > No!... in the end we find God... that which appears in nothingness... is> GOD. That which flows from something to nothing... the fountainhead from> where each life springs and ends into nothingness...> > Reasoning is only a preparation for what is beyond reasoning. But reasoning> only takes us into an area of darkness. We must go beyond reasoning in order> to reach it. We need to perceive beyond our known dimensions.> > Regards> Neelam> > 2008/7/30 Bhaskar rajiventerprises > > Just like you can show Your mother to the world by large, even after she> > is no more, I too can show God to the world in the same way.> >> > I can also show God to you face to face, but would have to make myself> > worthy of this appointment first. I know He is there, which is why the> > confidence that I can show Him to you. but the question is time period for> > me to become worthy enough to be granted His audience.> >> > regards,> >> > Bhaskar.> >> >> >> >> > , "renunw" renunw@> > wrote:> > >> > > Dear Bhaskar ji,> > >> > > I understand what you say. You may be a good person whom even> > > god/gods help/s. I believe you. But can you show this god to anyone> > > else...I am not coming back to previous mail hence I have explained> > > to you what my intentions were.> > >> > > But I could [now she is no more] show my mother to the world at> > > large. I and others whom she met in her life time could comprehend> > > her through the 5 senses.> > >> > > blessings> > > Renu> > >> > > Renu> > >> > > >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskar ji,==>This is actually a waste of time. i don’t know why i am indulging in this.<== No.... This is not a waste of time. Even this understanding is a lesson!!! This aversion from argumentation, can be a great benefit if we are able to look into it in proper perspective. May is it not Neelam ji was pointing to when she said - "Reasoning is only a preparation for what is beyond reasoning. But reasoning only takes us into an area of darkness. We must go beyond reasoning in order to reach it. We need to perceive beyond our known dimensions." and so on... You are lucky that you got a great soul like Renu ji who is in the path to argue; we are lucky that we were listening to your arguments... There is nothing without a purpose... nothing is accidental and without a reason except the universe itself!!! lol.......... Just joking... :)Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Bhaskar" <rajiventerprises wrote:>> Dear Neelamji,> > for some students, a piece of advice by the teacher is enough. for> others a standing footruler on the knuckles brings in the understanding.> > For me perception is enough to believe. For others it is - to see to> believe.> > What about the poor blind people. How would they believe anything at> all, in their lives with this reasoning, when they cannot see.> > This is actuallty a waste of time. i dont know why i am indulging in> this.> > regards,> > bhaskar.> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskarji, Renuji is talking of gods and not of God. I think there is a subtle difference that it makes to the Buddhists. Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: who knows God? Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 12:54 AM Dear Renuji, My Comments in Red. Dear Bhaskar ji, I will try my best with the little knowledge I have to answer you. You MUST keep in mind, though I am a Buddhist by birth, by religion, may be by knowledge too ...I have not SEEN Buddha yet. ) Show me where he is acting deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocent. I'll mention one or two cases. When a girl is being raped, where is god to protect her? When a malnourished starving child cries for a drop of water, why cannot god create a fountain of pure water? When a woman who tolls day & night to feed her family is beaten by the husband who only knows to use the hard earned money on liquor, why cannot god protect that woman? Buddha cannot do these things as he was a human being and he is no more. In your further comments below, you talk of the theory of karma. That should explain why the above happens. Why must god come in between the culmination of some karma, enforced by the individual Himself ? The girl who is now raped, must have raped someone in her past janma as a man. The women who is now beaten, must have nbeaten her own partner in previous janma . can you vouch that this is not the case ? 2) Prove me that they are innocent, who are crying. Innocence can have different meanings and a person may be innocent for one thing and guilty of another thing. Of course in the case of a raped victim, I will surely succeed in proving her innocence in a court of law. In the case of a child, yes, who knows not nothing of the evils of this world...is obviously innocent. Why should it be deprived of basic needs, if there is a god? Why would a woman get beaten by a drunkard? If she works in good faith, through sheer love she has for her kids & husband, of what crime is she guilty to get beaten by her husband? Again the same things have been repeated by you. my answer would be the same. Check your further comments in this mail. You have yourself said about Karma, which explains all above happennings. 3 ) Give me the reasons why some children are born healthy and the others crippled, or blind or whatever. Of course...karma is the answer. We Buddhists accept 'karma theory' In Buddhist theory of 'kamma' /karma it has a specific meaning; it means only 'volitional action', not all action. Karma and its effects are two things. Effects are known as the kamma phala or kamma vipaka. Good karma produces good effects and bad karma produces bad effects. The theory of kamma in Buddhism is the thoery of cause and effect, the theory of action and reaction. Ther result is not a punishment/judgemen t imposed by a Supreme being. One is responsible for one's own action. Now you will say in the above mentioned 2nd case, the vicitms had to suffer because of their past bad kammas. True...that is what exactly Buddhism says. I am asking if god is omnipresent, where is he when these things happen? Why would god let his own creations suffer? OK. One would say that he created them equal. If so how come they act differently? If they were created equally how come they have different minds or different consciousness? You yourself talk of karma and then say why should god allow all this to happen / Who is He to allow criminal activities ? Yes in the starting he had created all of us equal. He had been kind enough to give us " vivek buddhi " which we dont utilise, but sopend our time and energies in pleasures. He is not controlling our actions. we are free to smoke a cvigarette, have a drink, have a affair with the neighbours wife or husband, and do whatever we like. If he gives us these liberties then these come with some rules, that we personally would be liable of the consequences of our actions which would follow. okay ? 4) Why some live a long Life while some children die early at age 5 or 10. Same answer as above. Those who destroy the lives of other beings may have short lives in another birth. Again you are accepting the theory of Karma, then why other talks of god not coming to help ? 5) Why dont we fall of from the Earth or why does the Earth itself not fall off from space. if it is gravitational theory then can they repeat this revolution and rotation in a scientific Labarotary with few balls as planets ? If it is Big Bang theory then why are the planets rotating at the same speed and not slowing down ? Try to create a big bang again and see whether the pieces are round in looks and whether they keep on revolving for lakhs of year in the manner Our Planets in the Solar system are revolving. Please explaion this who is keeping this perfect alignment in place. This is what Buddha explained as Dhamma niyama. That is order of the norm, e.g., the natural phenomena occurring at the advent of a Bodhisatta in his last birth, gravitation, etc. Anyway let me mention here that Buddha wanted his disciples to concetrate on dhamma and not on these metaphysical things. He taught what was essential to attain nirvana/moksha. Then what is moksha if not attaining the Formless God ? 6) Why are you not able to repeat Lord Ganesha drinking milk today ? Kindly tell me what this is about. I am truly ignorant and would love to know. Some other time. 7) I also wish to know why do people worship Buddha statues ? is he there ? If he is there then I would like to see him. Show me the Buddha You worship, and I promise i will show you God. You do the above, then I will show you God. No Buddha is not there. Buddha is not anymore even in a heavenly abode. He was a human being like you and I. He passed away more than 2500 years ago. Hence I cannot show someone who in not anymore anywhere in any form. If he is not there then why do You worship him ? ( You may not know but then I am a better buddhist then you. Because i worship buddha whenever i pass through his temples and statues , and i believe that He is there , and not gone anywhere. ) Yes, people worship Buddha Statues. Not because they think that Buddha is there. It is in the form of a gesture of respect similar to that we pay to our parents, elders, gurus. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship. The problem is that what the Buddhism of yesteryears was, is no more today. I agree. The fables, tales may be manipulated, changed, distorted. But Buddha's basic teaching is applicable even today. It is the Truth. Agreed. I am sure it has become corrupted down the ages. May be Buddhism. But not Buddha's teaching of the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold path. Agreed. I do not think Buddha did not worship God. This is all nonsense. All great Saints and Mahapurusha, accept a superior divinity pervading. On the other hand God worshipped Buddha. Gods invited Buddha to be born in the earth. He looked for 5 things to confirm that it was the right time for a Buddha to be born in earth. Time, Country, Place, Caste, and Mother. Well....he chose India! Maha Brhama reminded Prince Siddhartha that it was the right time for renunciation, when he was reluctant to leave his lovely wife Yashodara and newly born son Rahula. When Prince Siddhartha attained Buddhahood, Maha Brahma and other gods were overjoyed and worshipped him and invited him to preach his 1st discourse. So ultimately you have accepted that God is there, because if in Buddhas time God was there, then He must be, now too. If Buddha is there, then God too is there. I would like to see Buddha first from those worshippers of Buddha, before they ask me to show God to them. I answered this. I cannot show somebody who is no more. Buddha passed away not to be born ever again. Not even in any heaven. Buddha was not only a human being, he claimed no inspiration from any god or external power either. He attributed all his realization, attainments and achievements to human endeavour and human intelligence. A man and only a man can become a Buddha. Every man has within himself the potentiality of becoming a Buddha, if he wills it and endeavours. Man is his own master, and there is no higher being or power that sits in judgment over his destiny. I don't demand anyone to show me god. It would not help me to achieve my goals. Only through Buddha's teachings ..will I achieve my goal one day...may be not in this birth...may be in thousand or more births later. No comments. This was Buddha's last words before he passed away. " Yo dhamma passathi, so man passathi " . Meaning, " One who sees dhamma would see me. " When his followers like you say that He is no more, then how would his words come ture, if you become a buddha someday. I would also like to know why is he deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocents. Sorry, I told you he is no more to save anyone. Neither did he save anyone while he was alive. He only showed the path for others to follow. So this question is not contextual or relevant as far as Buddha is concerned. No one else but one is answerable for one's own actions. You do not know much about him unfortunately. He has saved hundreds in his time too from many maladies, and i am not talking of saving a soul , I am talking physical saving. Trust me..I respect all religions. After all what matters is how we live Yes i trust you are religious. blessings Renu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Sunilji, Since we have been rightly asked to abstain from such exchanges, i will keep my note short. heres what she has written. // On the other hand God worshipped Buddha. Gods invited Buddha to be born in the earth. He looked for 5 things to confirm that it was the right time for a Buddhato be born in earth // Singular has been used two times, and plural has been used once. She says ' God ' worshipped Buddha. Then again she says ' He looked for..... '. But alls well that ends well..... regards, bhaskar. , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Bhaskarji,> > Renuji is talking of gods and not of God. I think there is a subtle difference that it makes to the Buddhists.> > Regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bhaskar rajiventerprises wrote:> Bhaskar rajiventerprises Re: who knows God?> > Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 12:54 AM> > Dear Renuji,> My Comments in Red.> Dear Bhaskar ji,> I will try my best with the little knowledge I have to answer you. You MUST keep in mind, though I am a Buddhist by birth, by religion, may be by knowledge too ..I have not SEEN Buddha yet.> ) Show me where he is acting deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocent.> I'll mention one or two cases. When a girl is being raped, where is god to protect her? When a malnourished starving child cries for a drop of water, why cannot god create a fountain of pure water? When a woman who tolls day & night to feed her family is beaten by the husband who only knows to use the hard earned money on liquor, why cannot god protect that woman? Buddha cannot do these things as he was a human being and he is no more.> In your further comments below, you talk of the theory of karma. That should explain why the above happens. Why must god come in between the culmination of some karma, enforced by the individual Himself ? The girl who is now raped, must have raped someone in her past janma as a man. The women who is now beaten, must have nbeaten her own partner in previous janma . can you vouch that this is not the case ?> 2) Prove me that they are innocent, who are crying. > Innocence can have different meanings and a person may be innocent for one thing and guilty of another thing. Of course in the case of a raped victim, I will surely succeed in proving her innocence in a court of law. In the case of a child, yes, who knows not nothing of the evils of this world...is obviously innocent. Why should it be deprived of basic needs, if there is a god? Why would a woman get beaten by a drunkard? If she works in good faith, through sheer love she has for her kids & husband, of what crime is she guilty to get beaten by her husband?> Again the same things have been repeated by you. my answer would be the same. Check your further comments in this mail. You have yourself said about Karma, which explains all above happennings. > 3 ) Give me the reasons why some children are born healthy and the others crippled, or blind or whatever.> Of course...karma is the answer. We Buddhists accept 'karma theory' In Buddhist theory of 'kamma' /karma it has a specific meaning; it means only 'volitional action', not all action. Karma and its effects are two things. Effects are known as the kamma phala or kamma vipaka. Good karma produces good effects and bad karma produces bad effects. The theory of kamma in Buddhism is the thoery of cause and effect, the theory of action and reaction. Ther result is not a punishment/judgemen t imposed by a Supreme being. One is responsible for one's own action. Now you will say in the above mentioned 2nd case, the vicitms had to suffer because of their past bad kammas. True...that is what exactly Buddhism says. I am asking if god is omnipresent, where is he when these things happen? Why would god let his own creations suffer? OK. One would say that he created them equal. If so how come they act differently? If they were created equally how come they have> different minds or different consciousness?> You yourself talk of karma and then say why should god allow all this to happen / Who is He to allow criminal activities ? Yes in the starting he had created all of us equal. He had been kind enough to give us " vivek buddhi " which we dont utilise, but sopend our time and energies in pleasures. He is not controlling our actions. we are free to smoke a cvigarette, have a drink, have a affair with the neighbours wife or husband, and do whatever we like. If he gives us these liberties then these come with some rules, that we personally would be liable of the consequences of our actions which would follow. okay ?> 4) Why some live a long Life while some children die early at age 5 or 10.> Same answer as above. Those who destroy the lives of other beings may have short lives in another birth.> Again you are accepting the theory of Karma, then why other talks of god not coming to help ?> 5) Why dont we fall of from the Earth or why does the Earth itself not fall off from space. if it is gravitational theory then can they repeat this revolution and rotation in a scientific Labarotary with few balls as planets ? If it is Big Bang theory then why are the planets rotating at the same speed and not slowing down ? Try to create a big bang again and see whether the pieces are round in looks and whether they keep on revolving for lakhs of year in the manner Our Planets in the Solar system are revolving. Please explaion this who is keeping this perfect alignment in place.> This is what Buddha explained as Dhamma niyama. That is order of the norm, e.g., the natural phenomena occurring at the advent of a Bodhisatta in his last birth, gravitation, etc. Anyway let me mention here that Buddha wanted his disciples to concetrate on dhamma and not on these metaphysical things. He taught what was essential to attain nirvana/moksha.> Then what is moksha if not attaining the Formless God ?> 6) Why are you not able to repeat Lord Ganesha drinking milk today ?> Kindly tell me what this is about. I am truly ignorant and would love to know.> Some other time.> 7) I also wish to know why do people worship Buddha statues ? is he there ? If he is there then I would like to see him. Show me the Buddha You worship, and I promise i will show you God. You do the above, then I will show you God.> No Buddha is not there. Buddha is not anymore even in a heavenly abode. He was a human being like you and I. He passed away more than 2500 years ago. Hence I cannot show someone who in not anymore anywhere in any form.> If he is not there then why do You worship him ? ( You may not know but then I am a better buddhist then you. Because i worship buddha whenever i pass through his temples and statues , and i believe that He is there , and not gone anywhere. ) > Yes, people worship Buddha Statues. Not because they think that Buddha is there. It is in the form of a gesture of respect similar to that we pay to our parents, elders, gurus. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship.> The problem is that what the Buddhism of yesteryears was, is no more today. > I agree. The fables, tales may be manipulated, changed, distorted. But Buddha's basic teaching is applicable even today. It is the Truth.> Agreed.> I am sure it has become corrupted down the ages.> May be Buddhism. But not Buddha's teaching of the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold path.> Agreed.> I do not think Buddha did not worship God. This is all nonsense. All great Saints and Mahapurusha, accept a superior divinity pervading.> On the other hand God worshipped Buddha. Gods invited Buddha to be born in the earth. He looked for 5 things to confirm that it was the right time for a Buddha to be born in earth. Time, Country, Place, Caste, and Mother. Well....he chose India! Maha Brhama reminded Prince Siddhartha that it was the right time for renunciation, when he was reluctant to leave his lovely wife Yashodara and newly born son Rahula. When Prince Siddhartha attained Buddhahood, Maha Brahma and other gods were overjoyed and worshipped him and invited him to preach his 1st discourse.> So ultimately you have accepted that God is there, because if in Buddhas time God was there, then He must be, now too. > If Buddha is there, then God too is there. I would like to see Buddha first from those worshippers of Buddha, before they ask me to show God to them.> I answered this. I cannot show somebody who is no more. Buddha passed away not to be born ever again. Not even in any heaven. Buddha was not only a human being, he claimed no inspiration from any god or external power either. He attributed all his realization, attainments and achievements to human endeavour and human intelligence. A man and only a man can become a Buddha. Every man has within himself the potentiality of becoming a Buddha, if he wills it and endeavours. Man is his own master, and there is no higher being or power that sits in judgment over his destiny. > I don't demand anyone to show me god. It would not help me to achieve my goals. Only through Buddha's teachings ..will I achieve my goal one day...may be not in this birth...may be in thousand or more births later.> No comments.> This was Buddha's last words before he passed away. "Yo dhamma passathi, so man passathi" . Meaning, "One who sees dhamma would see me. "> When his followers like you say that He is no more, then how would his words come ture, if you become a buddha someday.> I would also like to know why is he deaf and dumb to the cries of the innocents.> Sorry, I told you he is no more to save anyone. Neither did he save anyone while he was alive. He only showed the path for others to follow. So this question is not contextual or relevant as far as Buddha is concerned. No one else but one is answerable for one's own actions.> You do not know much about him unfortunately. He has saved hundreds in his time too from many maladies, and i am not talking of saving a soul , I am talking physical saving.> Trust me..I respect all religions. After all what matters is how we live > Yes i trust you are religious.> blessings> Renu> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Bhaskarji, <<< i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no person who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the Formless but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, or a new thread would start again ). >>> Yes nothing really becomes non-existent. Only our perception changes. What Lord Buddha called " anicca or aniccha " is " anitya " in Sanskrit. By " Shunyata " Lord Buddha did not mean non-existence. He meant the end of the five skandhas. Similarly Kularnava tantra also says that the end of the five koshas is Shunyata. When the skandhas / koshas end one loses his individual identity. In Vishnusahasranama one of the names of Lord Vishnu is " Shunya " as he is everywhere and beyond any attribute and so beyond any description also. The etymological meaning of Shunya and Shunyata is expansion. A crude example can be seen when water evaporates. Water appears to vanish but does it really become non-existent? Regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bhaskar <rajiventerprises wrote: Bhaskar <rajiventerprises Re: who knows God? Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 4:53 AM Dear Renuji, I know you are a religious person. No doubt about it. I dont know about Buddhism. That may be right or not right is not the issue. i love Buddha is what matters to me. i know He is still there in the form of Vishnu for me, whom we worship. I love Him because he is a incarnation of Vishnu. i love him also because i was enamoured by his story in my childhood and carried it to my heart, and still. I love him because he had the power to throw off the pleasures after having got them ( Unlike those who may become satsangis nowadays after getting a slap from their wives and have nothing to hold to, at their homes ). i love him because he got realisation. i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no person who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the Formless but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, or a new thread would start again ). I am happier being a non buddhist because i can Love both jesus, allah as well as vishnu, though my preferences would of course, and must remain towards Vishnu being born in a vaishnava family. Sorry if I ever offended you, but i enjoyed discussing with you. it was a one sided affair though. My Shift button is not working properly on the keybboard so please neglect the capitals coming up in small case. regards, bhaskar. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 White light consists of seven colors of the visible spectrum and in order to see the same we have to look through prism. We cannot deny the fact just because we cannot see it. May be we need to equip ourselves to see God. There is a poem in Malayalam by Ulloor Parameswarayyar " aduthu nilporu anujane nockan akshikalillathorcku aroopaneeswaranan adrisyanayal athinenthascharyam " . Meaning (to the closest) it is not surprising if God is not visible to those who cannot see their own brother standing next to them. Normal being like myslef can see God around ourselves only. " Siva Jnane jana Seva " as like Swami Vivekananda says. Jaya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 hare ramakrishna jaya , thanks for good write up regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah ------------------------- this is frm osho-Gratefulness is true religion ====================================== :* DO YOU BELIEVE IN FIGHTING INJUSTICE?A:* I don't believe in anything.Q:* DO YOU THINK THAT ONE SHOULD FIGHT JUSTICE, INJUSTICE?A:* One should not have shoulds and should nots.One should simply exist spontaneously. If the moment brings fight, fight - and fight totally, intensely. But don't fight for a belief. Don't fight for a prejudice. Live in the moment. Be alert. And out of that alertness, whatsoever happens, enjoy it.So let me explain it exactly because that may help you to understand other questions and answers.I don't have any belief system. I don't have any creed, dogma. My whole approach is existential.Right now, you are there, I am here - and this is enough. You may have prepared your questions. I have not prepared my answers. So you can ask your questions, and I am a crazy man, I may say anything that comes in the moment. I don't care for any consistency, and I don't care for any respectability. My whole responsibility is to this moment. Beyond that there is nothing.Q:* HOW'S THIS MOMENT GOING FOR YOU?A:* Beautifully. Your moustache giving me great joy! Only you are missing a beard. It is half-hearted. Just go the full way.Q:* WELL, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT GROWING ONE.A:* You do it! A man without a beard and moustache is just like a woman with a moustache and beard!Q:* ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, I HAD A REALLY DARK TIME IN MY LIFE AND SOMEBODY SUGGESTED TO GET INTO MEDITATION, AND I BOUGHT YOUR ORANGE BOOK ON MEDITATION. AND THE ONE THAT CHANGED WHAT WAS HAPPENING FOR ME WAS THE LAUGHTER MEDITATION. AS SOON AS I KNEW I WAS AWAKE, AND I STARTED LAUGHING, THE WHOLE DAY WENT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN BEFORE. SO I NEED TO THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THIS MEDITATION.A:* Just one meditation has done that much for you. If you try few others, you will not find words to thank me.I have 112 methods of meditation. And if a person can manage even 10 out of those, his life will be a sheer joy with no dark moments, with no frustration, with no tension, no anxiety. Whatsoever happens, he will be able to accept it, without any grudge, without any complaint. His gratitude towards existence will be infinite.We are very ungrateful to existence. It has given so much to us, and without our asking. And we are such ungrateful creatures, that we don't even bother to look around what existence is continuously doing for us - the sun, the moon, the stars, the trees, the birds, the animals, the people. You are living in a tremendously beautiful dream, but you have to be awake about it. Then only a gratefulness arises.I call that gratefulness, true religion. A man need not be a Christian to be religious, need not be a Hindu to be religious. All that he needs is a deep gratitude towards existence - he need not believe in God, he need not believe in heaven and hell - just a simple phenomenon: a deep felt gratitude that this existence would have been missing something without you. That this vast existence needed you, no one else. And your place was empty before you, will be empty after you - it is irreplaceable. That gives a great contentment.Man's greatest need is to be needed. And when you feel that the whole existence needs you.... Otherwise you would not have been here!Osho - The Last testament, vol.2 #3 , "revati_n27" <revati_n27 wrote:>> White light consists of seven colors of the visible spectrum and in > order to see the same we have to look through prism. We cannot deny > the fact just because we cannot see it. May be we need to equip > ourselves to see God.> > There is a poem in Malayalam by Ulloor Parameswarayyar "aduthu nilporu > anujane nockan akshikalillathorcku aroopaneeswaranan adrisyanayal > athinenthascharyam". Meaning (to the closest) it is not surprising if > God is not visible to those who cannot see their own brother standing > next to them.> > Normal being like myslef can see God around ourselves only. "Siva > Jnane jana Seva" as like Swami Vivekananda says. > > Jaya> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Namaste Bhaskar ji and Renu ji Please note there is No Religion known as Hinduism - only Santham Dharam and yes Buddhism and Jainism are branches of the same tree along with a multitude of others .... Best wishes ... Jai Sita Ram Ram _____ On Behalf Of Bhaskar 30 July 2008 14:51 Re: who knows God? dear Renuji, Thanks for the lovely post. Just to keep the record straight , buddhism and janism are branches of the same tree, hinduism. regards, Bhaskar. ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology , " renunw " <renunw wrote: > > Dear Bhaskar ji, > > First of all sorry for the capitals, a weakness in my horoscope I > admit.....and extremely sorry if I offended you. > > Now you write with lot of compassion and humility and let me return > it to you. > > I really do respect all religions..there is only a slight margin of > demarcation between all these. I didn't know much about Hinduism. > But being in this group...I learnt how beautiful Hinduism could > be ....may be not directly...but I saw it in the writings of some > members. This is all that matters...being good human beings. > > See, when a good Hindu astrologer asks me to chant Maha Mritunjaya > Mantra on behalf of my son, I would do so. What happens is in the > presence of bad luck for someone whom I love, I become weak. So, I > seek the blessings of God Shiva in addition to the blessings of the > Noble Triple Gem. Many Buddhists go to Hindu Kovils/temples to seek > guidance and blessings of gods. Even I go and worship them. I also > invoke blessings on them according to Buddhist customs. > > Earlier I was on the opinion that some slokas in Bhagavath Geetha > were copied from Buddha's words. But then I learnt from Sreeram ji > that Bhagavath Geetha was written long before Buddha's birth. I even > argued about this with a Buddhist monk saying that some dhamma > preached by Buddha was written in Bhagavath Geetha too. He refused > to accept. But fortunately this particular monk is reading for a > Buddisht Philosophy degree....and later when he learnt about it he > acknowledged the fact. We are susceptible to 'Truth'. > > Well, sir, there is no point we mortals arguing with each other for > these minor matters. Of course it was interesting and not one > sided:) > > In short..after all there was nothing to argue about. You say there > is a god, I accept it. > > You believe in karma and I too believe in karma. > > Only difference is according to Hinduism, Buddha is an incarnation > of Vishnu. But according to Buddhism he was a human being like you > and I. But does it matter? What matters is the Dhamma he taught or > Dhamma written in Hindu scriputres. > > If you are a good Hindu...no doubt you are...you will love and > respect mankind and if I am a good Buddhist I will also do likewise. > So let's get together and make sure that world will be a better > place for the generations to come > > Now...why don't we go back to astrology? May be Neelam ji come up > with a blind chart exercise. > > blessings > > Renu > > ancient_indian_ <%40> astrology , " Bhaskar " > rajiventerprises@ wrote: > > > > Dear Renuji, > > > > I know you are a religious person. No doubt about it. > > > > I dont know about Buddhism. That may be right or not right is not > the > > issue. i love Buddha is what matters to me. i know He is still > there > > in the form of Vishnu for me, whom we worship. > > > > I love Him because he is a incarnation of Vishnu. i love him also > > because i was enamoured by his story in my childhood and carried > it to > > my heart, and still. I love him because he had the power to throw > off > > the pleasures after having got them ( Unlike those who may become > > satsangis nowadays after getting a slap from their wives and have > > nothing to hold to, at their homes ). i love him because he got > > realisation. > > > > i can never think that people who have realised are no more. no > person > > who gets realised looses his identity. They may merge with the > Formless > > but with their identities. ( Now this i dont want to discuss how, > or a > > new thread would start again ). > > > > I am happier being a non buddhist because i can Love both jesus, > allah > > as well as vishnu, though my preferences would of course, and must > > remain towards Vishnu being born in a vaishnava family. > > > > Sorry if I ever offended you, but i enjoyed discussing with you. > it was > > a one sided affair though. > > > > My Shift button is not working properly on the keybboard so please > > neglect the capitals coming up in small case. > > > > regards, > > > > bhaskar. > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1581 - Release 7/30/2008 6:56 AM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 Dear all, I have been following this thread on God, suddenly I got realization of God and decided to write. God is life, hence all living beings are God. It is said when the baby comes to the world he cries, which sounds like " Ko (kaha) aham " (who am I), then later the cry sounds like So (saha) aham (I am Him). All living creatures are God, hence they say do not kill even the tiniest of the bug. Human is the superior form of God, because he can do everything. There are different kinds of people who follow different religion. only in Hinduism, god is worshipped in the form of human being. Interestingly, I never understood the origin of Hinduism, I do not know who founded Hinduism. An Indian doctor got converted to Christianity, he asked me to follow him, next day I got several people from his church called me and said they would take me to free bowling, give me free food etc, I asked them the reason why I should convert. They said, Christianity believes in monotheism unlike Hinduism. This is the explanation I gave to them- Hinduism also believes in monotheism, then why so many Gods, I told like how each human has a mother, father, brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, girlfriends, lovers, boyfriends, secretaries etc, Gods also have , so the relative of a God is another God, Hinduism does not separate human from God at any point. When we come to the world, we are without anything but have our fists closed, how much ever you try to open a baby's hand, the fists remains closed- meaning I want to conquer everything, I want to have everything. While when we leave, again we do not have anything but our hands are wide open, will not close now because we gave all that we got. My Sanskrit teacher always used to say- when you are living you are " shivam " , when you die you become " shavam " . Between the closed and open fists there exists a great drama that is life After I told this, one of the church guy asked me do people get converted to Hinduism? I said no, you realize Hinduism, there is no religion, I do not know what was the impact, they left me alone Mass destruction, why is God cruel?- In the drama between the closed and open fists, God keeps editing, cutting, copying and pasting the scenes, but the drama is of a high order suspense thriller If we observe a girl child, she always loves her dolls, a boy loves soldiers, slowly when they progress in life, the boy runs after " dolls " and the girl runs after the " soldiers " , that is a different issue. We often see that no two girls play the same, one of them loves to care for the doll, one of them has fun in breaking one hand, one of them loves to remove the eyes, one of them comes to fix the broken doll, one of them tries to throw the broken doll and replace with a new one. Similarly, boys have fun in dashing two cars, shooting with guns, so in childhood, we do all this when we are still in the purest form of God. As we grow up, we become saints, criminals, rapists, druggists, doctors and what not-. Whenever, I was sacrificing hundreds of guinea pigs and mice, I always saw their docile faces, they are unaware of their death, their purpose is over, to me it is my profession, so I was hard-hearted, same way, we are the guinea pigs for God, he is experimenting with his creation. He got the reigns of the drama in his hands in the form of the " Rashi chakra " , fortune wheel, he programs it and has fun. So each life on earth springs from this drama. When we realize all this, be kind to another human, to another life, stop hating each other, we can make ourselves easy to live, be prepared for the best or for the worst. We will be continuing our drama in each birth as they say the soul finds another form everytime. Hence they say yatha karma tatha phalam. When we come to terms with these thoughts, we fully realize God, but still will not be able to explain to anyone, as this realization should come from within, like how I got enlightened after reading this thread for so many days!!! These are my own views, please do not do google search to find the origin of this. If you hit on any reference then it will be sheer coincidence. I hope this would end this thread - " I came, I saw but not sure whether I conquered " bhagavathi , " revati_n27 " <revati_n27 wrote: > > White light consists of seven colors of the visible spectrum and in > order to see the same we have to look through prism. We cannot deny > the fact just because we cannot see it. May be we need to equip > ourselves to see God. > > There is a poem in Malayalam by Ulloor Parameswarayyar " aduthu nilporu > anujane nockan akshikalillathorcku aroopaneeswaranan adrisyanayal > athinenthascharyam " . Meaning (to the closest) it is not surprising if > God is not visible to those who cannot see their own brother standing > next to them. > > Normal being like myslef can see God around ourselves only. " Siva > Jnane jana Seva " as like Swami Vivekananda says. > > Jaya > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 30, 2008 hare ramakrishna dear bhaghavathi ji good post ,another good write up frm our Lady s brigade .but i like to add some more lines . every one has his own god in hinduism ( if that is the name of our religion ) ,very personal god , that is beauty of it i think , even ur krishna is diffrnt frm my krishna ,so just enjoy the moment and let us liv happily regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , "bhagavathi_hariharan" <bhagavathi_hariharan wrote:>> Dear all,> > I have been following this thread on God, suddenly I got realization > of God and decided to write. God is life, hence all living beings are > God. It is said when the baby comes to the world he cries, which > sounds like "Ko (kaha) aham" (who am I), then later the cry sounds > like So (saha) aham (I am Him). All living creatures are God, hence > they say do not kill even the tiniest of the bug. Human is the > superior form of God, because he can do everything.> > There are different kinds of people who follow different religion. > only in Hinduism, god is worshipped in the form of human being. > Interestingly, I never understood the origin of Hinduism, I do not > know who founded Hinduism. An Indian doctor got converted to > Christianity, he asked me to follow him, next day I got several > people from his church called me and said they would take me to free > bowling, give me free food etc, I asked them the reason why I should > convert. They said, Christianity believes in monotheism unlike > Hinduism. > > This is the explanation I gave to them-> > Hinduism also believes in monotheism, then why so many Gods, I told > like how each human has a mother, father, brothers, sisters, uncles, > aunts, girlfriends, lovers, boyfriends, secretaries etc, Gods also > have , so the relative of a God is another God, Hinduism does not > separate human from God at any point. When we come to the world, we > are without anything but have our fists closed, how much ever you try > to open a baby's hand, the fists remains closed- meaning I want to > conquer everything, I want to have everything. While when we leave, > again we do not have anything but our hands are wide open, will not > close now because we gave all that we got. My Sanskrit teacher always > used to say- when you are living you are "shivam", when you die you > become "shavam". Between the closed and open fists there exists a > great drama that is life> > After I told this, one of the church guy asked me do people get > converted to Hinduism? I said no, you realize Hinduism, there is no > religion, I do not know what was the impact, they left me alone> > Mass destruction, why is God cruel?-> > In the drama between the closed and open fists, God keeps editing, > cutting, copying and pasting the scenes, but the drama is of a high > order suspense thriller > > If we observe a girl child, she always loves her dolls, a boy loves > soldiers, slowly when they progress in life, the boy runs > after "dolls" and the girl runs after the "soldiers", that is a > different issue. We often see that no two girls play the same, one of > them loves to care for the doll, one of them has fun in breaking one > hand, one of them loves to remove the eyes, one of them comes to fix > the broken doll, one of them tries to throw the broken doll and > replace with a new one. Similarly, boys have fun in dashing two cars, > shooting with guns, so in childhood, we do all this when we are still > in the purest form of God. As we grow up, we become saints, > criminals, rapists, druggists, doctors and what not-.> > Whenever, I was sacrificing hundreds of guinea pigs and mice, I > always saw their docile faces, they are unaware of their death, their > purpose is over, to me it is my profession, so I was hard-hearted, > same way, we are the guinea pigs for God, he is experimenting with > his creation. He got the reigns of the drama in his hands in the form > of the "Rashi chakra", fortune wheel, he programs it and has fun. So > each life on earth springs from this drama. > > When we realize all this, be kind to another human, to another life, > stop hating each other, we can make ourselves easy to live, be > prepared for the best or for the worst. We will be continuing our > drama in each birth as they say the soul finds another form > everytime. Hence they say yatha karma tatha phalam. > > When we come to terms with these thoughts, we fully realize God, but > still will not be able to explain to anyone, as this realization > should come from within, like how I got enlightened after reading > this thread for so many days!!! These are my own views, please do not > do google search to find the origin of this. If you hit on any > reference then it will be sheer coincidence. > > I hope this would end this thread - "I came, I saw but not sure > whether I conquered"> > > bhagavathi > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Sunilji: Speaking of personal God, I have missed out the discussion on Hindu Gods with weapons. As a child I have learned from some source (it cannot be coming from my brain) that the incarnations indirectly explain the theroy of evolution (Darvin came up with the theory only in 1858?). The origin of life in water (matsya), then Koorma (both water and land), then varaha (animal on land), narasimha (between animal and human), vamana (smaller version of human being), parasurama (cave man, with axe), Balarama (peasant), SriRama (more modern with bow and arrow) and very modern Krishna. It was very fascinating to know as a child. I tell my children the same story. Jaya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 dear renuji and bhaskarji, I have been reading enlightening mails on the above subject. I am sharing my thoughts. We want to realise or see God thro the five senses but God is not made of five senses on the other hand it is God who has created all living beings on this planet and they are made of five senses(pancha butha). Only very great saints like Ramana maharishi who had denounced material world could realize god. Probably there may be many saints like him who are not known to us. Coming to the sufferings of humanity, God has given us this planet to live a happy and peaceful life but unfortunately the man' s greed to possess every material object in this world has increased multifold. this attitude has increased his demonic thinking and approach to achieve his desire. In the process all our secientific inventions are interfering with nature and creating lot of hardships. If a citizen of USA consumes 3400 calories of food everyday whereas many in the rest of the world cant even get 500 calories. Spiritual approach in US is vanishing and demonic approach has over taken, so the rulers of such nations adopt adharmic methods to achieve their goal at the cost of others living in rest of the world. Probably even in God's kingdom we have read that there are Asuras as well as Devas. We approach God only with the aim that either today or tomorrow we shud not land up in financial/ health problems. so the fault is at our end and God cannot come to our perpetual faulty activities. good wishes, k.gopu --- On Wed, 7/30/08, renunw <renunw wrote: renunw <renunw Re: who knows God? Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 12:20 PM Dear Bhaskar ji, I understand what you say. You may be a good person whom even god/gods help/s. I believe you. But can you show this god to anyone else...I am not coming back to previous mail hence I have explained to you what my intentions were. But I could [now she is no more] show my mother to the world at large. I and others whom she met in her life time could comprehend her through the 5 senses. blessings Renu Renu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Dear Revati ji,Looks like a parallel that we can draw with Darwin's theory of Evolution and I've also heard about it, but I don't think it makes any sense to connect it with the evolutionary process. All the avatars were Vishnu's way of saving the earth from Asuras or other destructive forces. e.g matsya was to save the vedas and kurma was during the Amrit manthan, but during the periods of all these avatars, we can see the higher forms of life also existing simultaneously, like the sages satyacharya and durvasa in the above two cases and the Gods, asuras, etc. And fish form is already a much evolved species, what about the other organisms that came before fish-like creatures. Also this contradicts our own theory of origin of everything from one single source or Brahma which refutes any evolution process. The present day " Theory of Biological Evolution " has come a long way since the days of Darwin. The merger of Darwin's ideas with genetics, which took place in the 1920s, is known as Modern Evolutionary Synthesis, or neo-Darwinism. Some of Darwin's specific ideas have been rejected through scientific inquiry, holes in his ideas and evidences have been filled, and many new avenues of thought and evidence have been brought to light. Scientists are also not averse to accepting the fact that life on earth has come from an extra-terrestrial source. I feel that period around 2,500 BC was a revolutionary period in the history where we can see parallel development of various civilisations in different parts of the world and we can see the emergence of similar and parallel ideas in different corners. If we read the religious or philosophical history of Greek, Sumerian, Babilonian and our own thinking, we can find many commonalities. I think we're digressing again.... better stop here.RegardsNeelam2008/7/31 revati_n27 <revati_n27 Sunilji: Speaking of personal God, I have missed out the discussion on Hindu Gods with weapons. As a child I have learned from some source (it cannot be coming from my brain) that the incarnations indirectly explain the theroy of evolution (Darvin came up with the theory only in 1858?). The origin of life in water (matsya), then Koorma (both water and land), then varaha (animal on land), narasimha (between animal and human), vamana (smaller version of human being), parasurama (cave man, with axe), Balarama (peasant), SriRama (more modern with bow and arrow) and very modern Krishna. It was very fascinating to know as a child. I tell my children the same story. Jaya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2008 Dear all, Since the talk of God has come up, just wanted to share a material which talks about the God scientifically. Probably after reading this, it may give a overall picture about the connection between universe (non-living beings) and the living beings. The Doc is: Gravity of Gravity.pdf. I dont put any more posts after this. I could not resist myself sharing these vital info.. This document deals that: mooladharam and kundalini being in spinal end. For theory, this gives better explanation. But to realize the God, our ancient siddhas followed a method called " Thiruvadi " or " God's Lotus feet " . I dont know about sanskrit but I am sure, in vedas and many upanishads, they might have talked about submitting ourselves to lotus feet. What exactly this lotus feet means is kept hidden by our siddhas. The lotus feet means a divine place in our body. The following link fully deals the ancient tamil siddhas poems about this lotus feet and god.. People who knows tamil in this forum, I am sure you will appreciate this link. I dont have any equivalent link in english. so unable to post. http://siththan.com/ http://njaanam.thamizha.com/njkporul.html These links deals with mooladharam and kundalini being in the upper portion of the body. I believe in the second after seeing immense practical benefits and sound proof from various ancient siddha resources. I am sorry for the long post. I stop here. Thanks, Dhanapal --- On Thu, 7/31/08, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote: neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 Re: Re: who knows God? Thursday, July 31, 2008, 3:39 AM Dear Revati ji, Looks like a parallel that we can draw with Darwin's theory of Evolution and I've also heard about it, but I don't think it makes any sense to connect it with the evolutionary process. All the avatars were Vishnu's way of saving the earth from Asuras or other destructive forces. e.g matsya was to save the vedas and kurma was during the Amrit manthan, but during the periods of all these avatars, we can see the higher forms of life also existing simultaneously, like the sages satyacharya and durvasa in the above two cases and the Gods, asuras, etc. And fish form is already a much evolved species, what about the other organisms that came before fish-like creatures. Also this contradicts our own theory of origin of everything from one single source or Brahma which refutes any evolution process. The present day " Theory of Biological Evolution " has come a long way since the days of Darwin. The merger of Darwin's ideas with genetics, which took place in the 1920s, is known as Modern Evolutionary Synthesis, or neo-Darwinism. Some of Darwin's specific ideas have been rejected through scientific inquiry, holes in his ideas and evidences have been filled, and many new avenues of thought and evidence have been brought to light. Scientists are also not averse to accepting the fact that life on earth has come from an extra-terrestrial source. I feel that period around 2,500 BC was a revolutionary period in the history where we can see parallel development of various civilisations in different parts of the world and we can see the emergence of similar and parallel ideas in different corners. If we read the religious or philosophical history of Greek, Sumerian, Babilonian and our own thinking, we can find many commonalities. I think we're digressing again.... better stop here. Regards Neelam 2008/7/31 revati_n27 <revati_n27 > Sunilji: Speaking of personal God, I have missed out the discussion on Hindu Gods with weapons. As a child I have learned from some source (it cannot be coming from my brain) that the incarnations indirectly explain the theroy of evolution (Darvin came up with the theory only in 1858?). The origin of life in water (matsya), then Koorma (both water and land), then varaha (animal on land), narasimha (between animal and human), vamana (smaller version of human being), parasurama (cave man, with axe), Balarama (peasant), SriRama (more modern with bow and arrow) and very modern Krishna. It was very fascinating to know as a child. I tell my children the same story. Jaya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
