Sri KN Rao's Double Transit Theory - Beginning of Great Research

[Guest guest]

The Double Transit Theory

 

Two series of articles have appeared in `The Astrological Magazine' in 1985:

 

· The first series Three Stages of a Prediction by the Preceptor Sri KN. Rao was concluded in the August 1985 issue.

 

· The second series Broad Timing of Marriage by a number of disciples appeared in the June 1986 issue.

 

Oral Traditional Secret

 

The following description can be seen on page 631 of the Astrological Magazine, August 1985.

 

"I was lucky that an old astrologer on his way to a pilgrimage spot had come to me to help him cast a horoscope and, in return, like a true Satwik Brahmin, he taught, he should give to me something as a parting gift. He repeatedly told me, "nothing in the world can happen unless Saturn and Jupiter plan it out. You cannot even produce a child without their blessing". I hope I have proven the theory of the old pandit satisfactorily in this paper.

 

But let me once again make it clear that my mother, who would outlined the whole theory for me because she herself learnt it from an old Andhra Brahmin of Masulipatnam more than 60 years ago, told me to work out for more details after casting the horoscope correctly and give predictions not merely on the transit of these planets but also on the basis of Saptamsa and Mahadasa, sub -dasa, sub-sub-dasa and wherever necessary work even on the Sookshma dasa..."

 

The theory in nutshell

 

The theory can be applied on any bhâva for predicting or timing the manifestation of the respective signification-like the birth of children from the fifth house or the event of marriage from the seventh house. The salient features of the theory are:

 

 

Saturn is the primary approver of the heavenly administration.

 

To quote the disciples in the context of marriage i.e. VIIth house:

 

"Saturn unites the bride and the bride groom. Saturn in consultation with Jupiter proposes how and when to tie the conjugal knot. So they influence both the bride and the bridegroom".

 

Technique of prediction can be well understood from the IInd series of papers beginning with 'Broad Timing of Marriage-I'.

 

Saturn should have aspected within one to two and a half years of a marriage:

 

(a) Lagna or Lagna lord representing the marriageable bride or bridegroom.

 

(b) The VIIth house or the VIIth lord, which represent the husband or wife.

 

Saturn therefore must have covered one aspect each from (a) and (b) above, which means before anyone's marriage Saturn should have aspected:

 

(1) Lagna and the VIIth house or VIIth lord

 

(2) Lagna lord and the VIIth house or VIIth lord.

 

(1) Role of Jupiter

 

Apply the same principle as for Saturn to Jupiter's transit but within a year generally, sometimes fifteen months.

 

(2) Author's claim

 

"…At the end of each article in the summary and conclusions we will prove the Supra-Scientific Validity of Hindu astrology by establishing that the principles we have arrived at are applicable to more than 80% cases straight away. In physical sciences when 60% results are obtained it is accepted as valid research. In astrology when we attain much higher percentage we still are open to accusation, because no one tolerates a failed prediction..."

 

Critical examination of the Theory

 

 

 

For illustrating the discrepancy let us consider the first example of Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru in detail (A.M. June 1986 Page 483) (Marriage took place in February 1916 only even though in those days marriageable age was very low like say, 22-28 or even 18-25)

 

Data of Ephemeris

 

Saturn (T)*

(1) Moved into Gemini on 20 June 1914

(2) Became retrograde on 16 October 1914

(3) Became direct on 27 February 1915

(4) Became retrograde on 30 October 1915

(5) Became direct on 12 March 1916

*(T)-means "in transit"

 

During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as, Jupiter (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but marriage didn't took place during the year that followed. Why?

 

At the time of marriage, Saturn (T) was in Gemini and retrogression, which began on 30.10.1915, was used to explain the event. Also in the case of Jupiter, transit across Aquarius/ Pisces was used. So at the time of event, both Saturn and Jupiter in transit had to influence 8 out of 12 houses by occupation and aspects, to fulfill the conditions of the theory.

 

Now consider the earlier period in which Saturn (T) was in Taurus.

 

Data of Ephemeris: Saturn (T)

 

(1) Moves into Taurus on 7 May 1912

(2) Retrograde on 17 Sept 1912

(3) Direct on 29 January 1913

(4) Retrograde on 02 October 1913

(5) Direct on 12 February 1914.

 

From 7th may 1912, Saturn (T) occupying Taurus aspected the Lagna of groom and by virtue of retrogression aspected from Aries the seventh house during: (1) September 1912 to 29 January 1913 and (2) 2nd October 1913 to 12 February 1914.

 

During the period (1) of retrogression, Jupiter aspected both the Lagna and VIIth lord by moving from Scorpio to Sagittarius. Thus the above period or the one-year that followed was quite appropriate for marriage. But nothing happened. Why?

 

During period (2) of retrogression, 2.10.1913 to 12.02.1914 Jupiter moved from Sagittarius to Capricorn and satisfied the conditions. But again, there was no marriage in the following year.

 

From the above discussion it is apparent that in the case of Saturn (T), if we consider any span of 2.5 to 2 years or even less, (within which there will be obviously retrogression and probably transit also) for any possible occupancy of any two parameters at least one of them will fall under the influence of Saturn (T) in almost all cases. This is because during such a span of time Saturn (T) influences 8 out of 12 houses.

 

In the case of Jupiter, similar is the situation, if we consider any span of one-year or even slightly less.

 

Anomaly described above is visible in all examples and hence the hypothesis is not valid. Situation may differ slightly due to clustering.

 

Other related points are:

 

(1) The condition of marriageable age has no relevance.

 

(2) The failure of the theory is implicit in the fact that it is not applicable to the horoscopes of twins.

 

 

(3) Jupiter according to the authors sometimes takes 15 months to fulfill the conditions. This is due to clustering of factors and can be mathematically explained. It must be noted here that the average tenancy of Jupiter in a house is only 361 days. Authors have found this period, which is less than a year as insufficient for their theory. Requirement of 15 months emerged from the need for a transit of Jupiter into another sign or retrogression so that influence can be located over the preceding sign - in short for bringing in another four houses.

 

 

The above points can be made clearer using the theory of probability.

 

Mathematical analogy

 

There are two sets of parameters (2 each) in our problem, signifying the bride and the groom. Mathematically the problem is distributions of 2 balls in 12 boxes out of which 8 are under the Saturn Saturnine influence i.e. say the 8 are marked.

 

For simplicity, we will take the maximum occupancy of the significators in one box as one. The probability that both the balls will falls in the 8 marked boxes.

 

= 8C2 .4Co = 28 -------------> (A)

12 C2 66

 

With maximum occupancy as one two significators can form 66 configurations in 12 boxes out of which in 28 both significators will be under the influence of Saturn.

The probability of finding only one in the marked boxes

 

= 2. 8C1. 4C1 = 32 ----------------------------> (B)

12C2 66

In 32 out of 66 cases only one will be under the Saturn influence.

 

The probability of finding both the balls out of the 8 marked boxes.

 

= 8Co. 4C2 = 66 --------------------------> ©

12 C2 66

 

From results (A) and (b) the total probability of finding at least one of the significators in 8 houses influenced by Saturn

 

= 32 + 28 = 60

66 66 66

 

I.e. in 60 out of the possible 66 cases. That is more than 90%. This is the result that the authors have got using the collected data. Same is the case with Jupiter (T). This analysis is applicable to the 2 each significators of both the bride as well as groom.

 

Relative placement of Saturn (T) and Jupiter (T) as well as clustering of significators can influence the result to some extent. In some clustered cases, the relative placement of Jupiter (T) and Saturn (T) compensate for clustering.

 

Also when we collect samples randomly, we do not collect one each of all possible configurations. Configurations represented by (A) and (B) collected in plenty can take the result to 100%. In a set of randomly collected data the influence of cases represented by © will be quite negligible.

 

Against the above scientific analysis and observations, it will be interesting to note the conclusions of the authors on page484 of the June issue:

 

''...© We are prepared to accept any challenge from anyone in an open technical debate to demonstrate the near-infallibility of our research.

(d) Our percentage in 27 months is 97.5% success, soaring beyond the theory of probability.

(e) If only a period of nine months is taken, even then we do not fall below 80%.

(f) We shall use 100 horoscopes in this paper though we have tested our research on more than a thousand by now..."

 

From the analysis given using the probability theory it is evident that the above hypothesis of "Double-transit" may appear true in all horoscopes for all times if we use two or more than two significators, As such the empirical substantiation on 1000 horoscopes is nothing but a deceptive outcome of the awry research. With this kind of reports it is better not to claim any 'Supra - Scientific' validity for Hindu astrology.

 

The students of astrology can have a very valuable lesson from the series of articles discussed above:

 

" Hi-fi language, challenging tones & quotations from old Pandits need not reflect the Scientific Content."

 

The above discussion can be applied to the article 'Close timing of Marriage III' (December 1986 issue of A.M.) to disprove the same. All the four rules given on page 931 lose its validity.

 

[Guest guest]

without saturn you cannot become a paupar or a king - was told to me by a learned astrologer who is no more. As a boy I used to irritate him asking pointed questions. He used to reply in anger but that was the only way he would answer at all !!

Once he exclaimed to a person that not even a marraige is possible unless Saturn aspects

same houses and lords as described in your article.

For Jupiter he used to say that without its influence, things are difficult to fructify even if yoga is there.

So you may have all the planets ready for marraige, but the absence of Jupiter means, marraige does not take place, gets dragged or there is a relationship which has no legal sanction.

 

Thanks & Regards.

 

Chiranjiv Mehta.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mehta,

 

I think you have not understood my posting on Rao's theory. My posting

in a nutshell meant that any such theory of double transit and claims

like 'old pandit's wisdom' are all lopsided notions imagined by certain

people. Yogic perception is a means to true knowledge but when

pseudo-yogis strain themselves to produce so called research,

imagination garbbage is the outcome. So we must be careful in adopting

new researches into Jyotihsastra.

 

chandra hari

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

I was very actively associated with Mr. K.N.Rao when he was residing in Telegraph lane near Jan Path.

Kindly refer to Slokas 27 and 28 0f ch 57 of BPHS - Sub periods in Saturn dasa.The gist of Parasara teaching is;

 

If Jupiter be favourable in transit , thee will be dawn of fortune and growth of prosperity.If Saturn be favourable in transit, there will be

Rajyoga effects or accomplishment of yoga rites.This is certain.

 

Mr. Metha's observations are very valid.

Regards.G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA

chiranjiv mehta <vchiranjiv Sent: Sunday, 23 March, 2008 4:18:45 PM Re: Sri KN Rao's Double Transit Theory - Beginning of Great Research

 

 

 

 

 

 

without saturn you cannot become a paupar or a king - was told to me by a learned astrologer who is no more. As a boy I used to irritate him asking pointed questions. He used to reply in anger but that was the only way he would answer at all !!

Once he exclaimed to a person that not even a marraige is possible unless Saturn aspects

same houses and lords as described in your article.

For Jupiter he used to say that without its influence, things are difficult to fructify even if yoga is there.

So you may have all the planets ready for marraige, but the absence of Jupiter means, marraige does not take place, gets dragged or there is a relationship which has no legal sanction.

 

Thanks & Regards.

 

Chiranjiv Mehta.

Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online.

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Thanks for the explanation of DT of Jupiter and Saturn. It was no less

better than what Sri K. N. Rao has explained in his various books.

 

I have found many instances where DT works. Even during child birth, I

have noticed that aspect of transit Jupiter and transit Saturn falls on

5H/5HL or 9H/ 9HL.

 

 

'The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double

transit is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice

versa is also true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the

person will get married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and

again. "

 

Well said!

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and Mr. Chandra Hari ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> I was not in town, so am a bit late in responding to this post.

> Nevertheless, I thought of posting my views on this issue.

>

> I am writing this not because of my BVB connection, but only because I

felt

> there is some lack of understanding regarding the applicability of the

> double transit phenomenon.

>

> When we start our journey towards a goal, we encounter numerous paths

> towards that goal, you walk some, you take turns, come back a while

but

> continue the journey… we go on imbibing and drawing from all

sources… and

> form our own opinions and insights...but never forget to respect and

give

> credit where its due... BVB was my first path in astrology...from

where I

> have come a long way... still have a long way to go…

>

> To err is human...applies equally to all and KN Rao may be no

exception.

> And, if we take in everything without questioning and reasoning, it

only

> reflects our own shortcoming as learners and we cannot hope to

progress

> without healthy arguments and criticism.

>

> At the same time we cannot forget that KN Rao has credibility, a huge

> experience backed with an equally massive body of work. His free

spirit and

> inquisitive nature has made him an iconic figure in his field. In his

> enthusiasm to bring this divine science to the fore, he has dished out

some

> invaluable tenets, which unfortunately have been least understood

also. And

> obviously, he does not have the time and inclination to justify

everything

> to everyone. Since we share the membership of this forum, I thought of

> clarifying a few things.

>

> The Double Transit (DT) phenomenon is a unique happening in an

individual's

> life. It cannot be taken lightly, nor could it be wished away lightly.

All

> over our shastras we get mention of how Jupiter and Saturn influence

our

> lives. If actually the theory applies to most happenings, and we get

ample

> proof of that, it must be creditworthy and we should try to understand

it in

> the right perspective.

>

> First I would like to clarify Mr. Chandra Hari's point:

>

> During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as,

Jupiter

> (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but

marriage

> didn't took place during the year that followed. Why?

>

> The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double

transit

> is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice versa

is also

> true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the person will get

> married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and again.

>

> The article referred to by you Mr. Chandra Hari, only justifies that

the

> theory holds good, but is not trying to explain why the event never

happened

> on other similar situations. Double transit is one important aspect,

but

> before it happens, the person has to be ready with the promise in the

chart

> and a conducive dasha.

>

> In Nehru's case, the marriage could happen in venus-sun only which was

the

> strongest dasha for marriage.

>

> - Sun is the dispositor of 7L Saturn in D-1, it is 7L of navamsha and

> is with 7L Saturn in navamsh in cancer which is natal lagna.

> - Prior to this venus antar is not strong enough for marriage as in

> D-1, venus has no connection with 7H/7L or lagna/LL. Only 7L aspects

venus

> which might give inclination for marriage and bride-hunting, etc..

> - In navamsh also venus herself is not connected to 7H, but aspected

> by Jup from 7H (if at all one has to consider navamsha aspects).

> - Venus-sun qualifies as the dasha where marriage has to take place.

>

> KN Rao has formulated certain parameters regarding use of double

transit for

> marriage as marriage is one of the most important happening in one's

life

> and is a core astrology issue. For easy applicability he has pointed

out

> where to look for marriage-related transits.

>

> Before applying the theory, we should follow certain basic

astrological

> principles...though they are very simple and known to all learned

> astrologers... we tend to ignore them in order to prove a point...

>

> We must be clear in our minds as to what the DT implies. It is not

> activation of the whole chart as assumed by some. Although both

Jupiter and

> Saturn activate four houses each by placement and aspect, for DT one

has to

> look for that one house that is jointly influenced. It could only be

one

> single house by aspect. This should be strictly followed while

applying the

> theory, without giving any relaxation including retrogression which

should

> only be of secondary importance.

>

> When there is DT on a sign, it assumes significance in the native's

life.

> This is the time when these two planets compliment each other's

qualities

> and together they indicate events regarding the areas of life that are

> signified by the house. This is the house lit up for action. However,

these

> events can be both positive and negative. It could be achievement,

> breakthroughs, and progress in the area signified or pitfalls,

downfalls and

> failures also in such areas. First and foremost is the activated house

and

> its related activities, then we may extend it to lordships.

>

> We generally think of Jupiter's transits as positive and beneficial

and

> increasing the significations of any house that it transits or

aspects,

> causing expansion and growth and providing new opportunities.

Likewise, we

> think of Saturn's transits as negative and detrimental, causing

limitation,

> obstacles, challenges and denial of the significations of the house

that it

> transits or aspects. To see how the double transit will actually

operate and

> what will be the impact on the native, one needs to exercise a logical

and

> out-of-box approach. Jupiter may not be apparently beneficial and

Saturn

> challenging for a native. Always remember the law of karmas unfolding

and

> the planets only responsible for giving the dues according to

> Desh-Kaal-Patra.

>

> There is always a natal DT house. The house which always remains

significant

> for an individual. E.g a person with Jupiter in lagna and Saturn in

8H, it

> will be the 5th activities that assume importance in the natives life.

This

> house will gain prominence throughout their life. Also, when the

double

> transit aspects to this house expect intensified results.

>

> The natal imprint of planets is most important and DT always supports

the

> promise in the chart. An individual, who is not promised marriage in

the

> natal chart, cannot marry only by strength of a double transit.

>

> It is also related to the natal Jupiter and Saturn and their role in

the

> chart. It is also important to see the relative strengths of Jupiter

and

> Saturn in the natal chart. This can be done by seeing their sign and

house

> placement, their house rulership, as well as the planets that aspect

them.

> This will modify the relative strength of their transits.

>

> While it can sound reliable and promising, the yogas and dashas need

to be

> considered even before the DT. If we rely only on transits to produce

> results, even the double transit, we may be disappointed. If the

progress

> and achievements that the double transit indicates don't have the

support of

> the yogas and dashas they will not come to full fruition. It may only

remain

> limited to an area of focus in a person's life, as said earlier. For

any

> person to gain eminence in any area, during DTs, it should be

supported by

> Rajyogas and Yogkarak dashas. The DTs may even go unnoticed for

ordinary

> people in everyday lives.

>

> Between them, Jupiter and Saturn share the lordship of four

consecutive

> houses of any chart. The whole quadrant of these four houses in a

natal

> placement gets the fruit of DT.

>

> Ashtakavarga point system may be applied to examine how many points

Jupiter

> and Saturn's points have both in the natal chart and in their

transiting

> sign. If they are higher than 5 points then their results will be more

> beneficial. If they are less than 2 points then their results will be

less

> beneficial. All these factors will modify the relative strength of the

> double transit.

>

> We need to synthesise the results based on the above factors,

otherwise we

> can miss the focal point of the chart during the time period in

question and

> thus lose valuable insights. We will keep flashing on the whole chart

and

> fail to pin down the event.

>

> There is always one single time for any event to happen in one's life

and it

> can be shown through appropriate astrological analysis.

>

> Hope I am able to make myself clear.

>

> Regards

> neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Renu ji,Good to hear from you... I am trying to catch up..Of course DT is a very sound technique if applied sensibly. Unlike general misconception, DT is not the packet for a native but only a delivery boy. If a packet is there for you and delivery date is due, the DT boy will deliver it to you. That's it!! No more no less.

See the chart that Sreeramji has posted for memory loss. It has DT on 8H.RegardsneelamOn 06/04/2008, renunw <renunw wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

 

Thanks for the explanation of DT of Jupiter and Saturn. It was no less

better than what Sri K. N. Rao has explained in his various books.

 

I have found many instances where DT works. Even during child birth, I

have noticed that aspect of transit Jupiter and transit Saturn falls on

5H/5HL or 9H/ 9HL.

 

'The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double

transit is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice

versa is also true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the

person will get married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and

again. "

 

Well said!

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and Mr. Chandra Hari ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> I was not in town, so am a bit late in responding to this post.

> Nevertheless, I thought of posting my views on this issue.

>

> I am writing this not because of my BVB connection, but only because I

felt

> there is some lack of understanding regarding the applicability of the

> double transit phenomenon.

>

> When we start our journey towards a goal, we encounter numerous paths

> towards that goal, you walk some, you take turns, come back a while

but

> continue the journey… we go on imbibing and drawing from all

sources… and

> form our own opinions and insights...but never forget to respect and

give

> credit where its due... BVB was my first path in astrology...from

where I

> have come a long way... still have a long way to go…

>

> To err is human...applies equally to all and KN Rao may be no

exception.

> And, if we take in everything without questioning and reasoning, it

only

> reflects our own shortcoming as learners and we cannot hope to

progress

> without healthy arguments and criticism.

>

> At the same time we cannot forget that KN Rao has credibility, a huge

> experience backed with an equally massive body of work. His free

spirit and

> inquisitive nature has made him an iconic figure in his field. In his

> enthusiasm to bring this divine science to the fore, he has dished out

some

> invaluable tenets, which unfortunately have been least understood

also. And

> obviously, he does not have the time and inclination to justify

everything

> to everyone. Since we share the membership of this forum, I thought of

> clarifying a few things.

>

> The Double Transit (DT) phenomenon is a unique happening in an

individual's

> life. It cannot be taken lightly, nor could it be wished away lightly.

All

> over our shastras we get mention of how Jupiter and Saturn influence

our

> lives. If actually the theory applies to most happenings, and we get

ample

> proof of that, it must be creditworthy and we should try to understand

it in

> the right perspective.

>

> First I would like to clarify Mr. Chandra Hari's point:

>

> During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as,

Jupiter

> (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but

marriage

> didn't took place during the year that followed. Why?

>

> The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double

transit

> is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice versa

is also

> true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the person will get

> married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and again.

>

> The article referred to by you Mr. Chandra Hari, only justifies that

the

> theory holds good, but is not trying to explain why the event never

happened

> on other similar situations. Double transit is one important aspect,

but

> before it happens, the person has to be ready with the promise in the

chart

> and a conducive dasha.

>

> In Nehru's case, the marriage could happen in venus-sun only which was

the

> strongest dasha for marriage.

>

> - Sun is the dispositor of 7L Saturn in D-1, it is 7L of navamsha and

> is with 7L Saturn in navamsh in cancer which is natal lagna.

> - Prior to this venus antar is not strong enough for marriage as in

> D-1, venus has no connection with 7H/7L or lagna/LL. Only 7L aspects

venus

> which might give inclination for marriage and bride-hunting, etc..

> - In navamsh also venus herself is not connected to 7H, but aspected

> by Jup from 7H (if at all one has to consider navamsha aspects).

> - Venus-sun qualifies as the dasha where marriage has to take place.

>

> KN Rao has formulated certain parameters regarding use of double

transit for

> marriage as marriage is one of the most important happening in one's

life

> and is a core astrology issue. For easy applicability he has pointed

out

> where to look for marriage-related transits.

>

> Before applying the theory, we should follow certain basic

astrological

> principles...though they are very simple and known to all learned

> astrologers... we tend to ignore them in order to prove a point...

>

> We must be clear in our minds as to what the DT implies. It is not

> activation of the whole chart as assumed by some. Although both

Jupiter and

> Saturn activate four houses each by placement and aspect, for DT one

has to

> look for that one house that is jointly influenced. It could only be

one

> single house by aspect. This should be strictly followed while

applying the

> theory, without giving any relaxation including retrogression which

should

> only be of secondary importance.

>

> When there is DT on a sign, it assumes significance in the native's

life.

> This is the time when these two planets compliment each other's

qualities

> and together they indicate events regarding the areas of life that are

> signified by the house. This is the house lit up for action. However,

these

> events can be both positive and negative. It could be achievement,

> breakthroughs, and progress in the area signified or pitfalls,

downfalls and

> failures also in such areas. First and foremost is the activated house

and

> its related activities, then we may extend it to lordships.

>

> We generally think of Jupiter's transits as positive and beneficial

and

> increasing the significations of any house that it transits or

aspects,

> causing expansion and growth and providing new opportunities.

Likewise, we

> think of Saturn's transits as negative and detrimental, causing

limitation,

> obstacles, challenges and denial of the significations of the house

that it

> transits or aspects. To see how the double transit will actually

operate and

> what will be the impact on the native, one needs to exercise a logical

and

> out-of-box approach. Jupiter may not be apparently beneficial and

Saturn

> challenging for a native. Always remember the law of karmas unfolding

and

> the planets only responsible for giving the dues according to

> Desh-Kaal-Patra.

>

> There is always a natal DT house. The house which always remains

significant

> for an individual. E.g a person with Jupiter in lagna and Saturn in

8H, it

> will be the 5th activities that assume importance in the natives life.

This

> house will gain prominence throughout their life. Also, when the

double

> transit aspects to this house expect intensified results.

>

> The natal imprint of planets is most important and DT always supports

the

> promise in the chart. An individual, who is not promised marriage in

the

> natal chart, cannot marry only by strength of a double transit.

>

> It is also related to the natal Jupiter and Saturn and their role in

the

> chart. It is also important to see the relative strengths of Jupiter

and

> Saturn in the natal chart. This can be done by seeing their sign and

house

> placement, their house rulership, as well as the planets that aspect

them.

> This will modify the relative strength of their transits.

>

> While it can sound reliable and promising, the yogas and dashas need

to be

> considered even before the DT. If we rely only on transits to produce

> results, even the double transit, we may be disappointed. If the

progress

> and achievements that the double transit indicates don't have the

support of

> the yogas and dashas they will not come to full fruition. It may only

remain

> limited to an area of focus in a person's life, as said earlier. For

any

> person to gain eminence in any area, during DTs, it should be

supported by

> Rajyogas and Yogkarak dashas. The DTs may even go unnoticed for

ordinary

> people in everyday lives.

>

> Between them, Jupiter and Saturn share the lordship of four

consecutive

> houses of any chart. The whole quadrant of these four houses in a

natal

> placement gets the fruit of DT.

>

> Ashtakavarga point system may be applied to examine how many points

Jupiter

> and Saturn's points have both in the natal chart and in their

transiting

> sign. If they are higher than 5 points then their results will be more

> beneficial. If they are less than 2 points then their results will be

less

> beneficial. All these factors will modify the relative strength of the

> double transit.

>

> We need to synthesise the results based on the above factors,

otherwise we

> can miss the focal point of the chart during the time period in

question and

> thus lose valuable insights. We will keep flashing on the whole chart

and

> fail to pin down the event.

>

> There is always one single time for any event to happen in one's life

and it

> can be shown through appropriate astrological analysis.

>

> Hope I am able to make myself clear.

>

> Regards

> neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear friend,

 

I am finding a lot of contradictions in your reply. Do you deny the

statistical model and results I have given? If not, with DT any event

can be justified at any time. And you understand this and therefore has

spoken of other conditions like Dasa_bhukti. If so what is the use of

DT?

 

So called DT influence will be there always on either the house or lord

from Lagna or Moon as Sri Rao has discussed in his examples. I think

you are speaking beyond Rao in explaining his theory. If your

astrological wisdom says that Venus-Venus is a less likely period for

marriage compared to Venus-Sun, because of the dispositor factor, can

you explain other events of Nehru's life as well with the same

astrology?

 

I think you have to create a different astrology to explain the DT

theory and to accept the same, all students must be debarred from being

critical of it.

 

You have written wonderful English but I doubt whether the account you

have given justifies the DT theory or not?

 

Imagine someone saying that marriages take place during any of the 365

days of the year. And he calls it an astrological theory and then he

says that to fix the month, week and day additional rules are required.

What then is the use of the 365 day theory?

 

Sri Rao says that marriage and other house significations fructify when

DT influence is there on the house and lord. This is always there, at

all times, all through one's life. With DT any event can be justified at

any time, the way Sri Rao has done in his articles by taking Vakra, + -

6 months etc. I feel you are justifying his theory because you have not

read seriously what Sri Rao has written.

 

Please read Sri Rao's articles referred in my write up and then reply

within the frame of what he has written and published and euologised as

the greatest research in astrology. I am to request also that Neelam

Gupta may comment also on Sri Rao's Mrtyubhaga modification theory.

 

My apologies if my words are harsh or if I have not understood what you

have spoken

 

chandra hari

 

 

, " neelam gupta "

<neelamgupta07 wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji and Mr. Chandra Hari ji,

>

> Namaste,

>

> I was not in town, so am a bit late in responding to this post.

> Nevertheless, I thought of posting my views on this issue.

>

> I am writing this not because of my BVB connection, but only because I

felt

> there is some lack of understanding regarding the applicability of the

> double transit phenomenon.

>

> When we start our journey towards a goal, we encounter numerous paths

> towards that goal, you walk some, you take turns, come back a while

but

> continue the journey… we go on imbibing and drawing from all

sources… and

> form our own opinions and insights...but never forget to respect and

give

> credit where its due... BVB was my first path in astrology...from

where I

> have come a long way... still have a long way to go…

>

> To err is human...applies equally to all and KN Rao may be no

exception.

> And, if we take in everything without questioning and reasoning, it

only

> reflects our own shortcoming as learners and we cannot hope to

progress

> without healthy arguments and criticism.

>

> At the same time we cannot forget that KN Rao has credibility, a huge

> experience backed with an equally massive body of work. His free

spirit and

> inquisitive nature has made him an iconic figure in his field. In his

> enthusiasm to bring this divine science to the fore, he has dished out

some

> invaluable tenets, which unfortunately have been least understood

also. And

> obviously, he does not have the time and inclination to justify

everything

> to everyone. Since we share the membership of this forum, I thought of

> clarifying a few things.

>

> The Double Transit (DT) phenomenon is a unique happening in an

individual's

> life. It cannot be taken lightly, nor could it be wished away lightly.

All

> over our shastras we get mention of how Jupiter and Saturn influence

our

> lives. If actually the theory applies to most happenings, and we get

ample

> proof of that, it must be creditworthy and we should try to understand

it in

> the right perspective.

>

> First I would like to clarify Mr. Chandra Hari's point:

>

> During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as,

Jupiter

> (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but

marriage

> didn't took place during the year that followed. Why?

>

> The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double

transit

> is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice versa

is also

> true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the person will get

> married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and again.

>

> The article referred to by you Mr. Chandra Hari, only justifies that

the

> theory holds good, but is not trying to explain why the event never

happened

> on other similar situations. Double transit is one important aspect,

but

> before it happens, the person has to be ready with the promise in the

chart

> and a conducive dasha.

>

> In Nehru's case, the marriage could happen in venus-sun only which was

the

> strongest dasha for marriage.

>

> - Sun is the dispositor of 7L Saturn in D-1, it is 7L of navamsha and

> is with 7L Saturn in navamsh in cancer which is natal lagna.

> - Prior to this venus antar is not strong enough for marriage as in

> D-1, venus has no connection with 7H/7L or lagna/LL. Only 7L aspects

venus

> which might give inclination for marriage and bride-hunting, etc..

> - In navamsh also venus herself is not connected to 7H, but aspected

> by Jup from 7H (if at all one has to consider navamsha aspects).

> - Venus-sun qualifies as the dasha where marriage has to take place.

>

> KN Rao has formulated certain parameters regarding use of double

transit for

> marriage as marriage is one of the most important happening in one's

life

> and is a core astrology issue. For easy applicability he has pointed

out

> where to look for marriage-related transits.

>

> Before applying the theory, we should follow certain basic

astrological

> principles...though they are very simple and known to all learned

> astrologers... we tend to ignore them in order to prove a point...

>

> We must be clear in our minds as to what the DT implies. It is not

> activation of the whole chart as assumed by some. Although both

Jupiter and

> Saturn activate four houses each by placement and aspect, for DT one

has to

> look for that one house that is jointly influenced. It could only be

one

> single house by aspect. This should be strictly followed while

applying the

> theory, without giving any relaxation including retrogression which

should

> only be of secondary importance.

>

> When there is DT on a sign, it assumes significance in the native's

life.

> This is the time when these two planets compliment each other's

qualities

> and together they indicate events regarding the areas of life that are

> signified by the house. This is the house lit up for action. However,

these

> events can be both positive and negative. It could be achievement,

> breakthroughs, and progress in the area signified or pitfalls,

downfalls and

> failures also in such areas. First and foremost is the activated house

and

> its related activities, then we may extend it to lordships.

>

> We generally think of Jupiter's transits as positive and beneficial

and

> increasing the significations of any house that it transits or

aspects,

> causing expansion and growth and providing new opportunities.

Likewise, we

> think of Saturn's transits as negative and detrimental, causing

limitation,

> obstacles, challenges and denial of the significations of the house

that it

> transits or aspects. To see how the double transit will actually

operate and

> what will be the impact on the native, one needs to exercise a logical

and

> out-of-box approach. Jupiter may not be apparently beneficial and

Saturn

> challenging for a native. Always remember the law of karmas unfolding

and

> the planets only responsible for giving the dues according to

> Desh-Kaal-Patra.

>

> There is always a natal DT house. The house which always remains

significant

> for an individual. E.g a person with Jupiter in lagna and Saturn in

8H, it

> will be the 5th activities that assume importance in the natives life.

This

> house will gain prominence throughout their life. Also, when the

double

> transit aspects to this house expect intensified results.

>

> The natal imprint of planets is most important and DT always supports

the

> promise in the chart. An individual, who is not promised marriage in

the

> natal chart, cannot marry only by strength of a double transit.

>

> It is also related to the natal Jupiter and Saturn and their role in

the

> chart. It is also important to see the relative strengths of Jupiter

and

> Saturn in the natal chart. This can be done by seeing their sign and

house

> placement, their house rulership, as well as the planets that aspect

them.

> This will modify the relative strength of their transits.

>

> While it can sound reliable and promising, the yogas and dashas need

to be

> considered even before the DT. If we rely only on transits to produce

> results, even the double transit, we may be disappointed. If the

progress

> and achievements that the double transit indicates don't have the

support of

> the yogas and dashas they will not come to full fruition. It may only

remain

> limited to an area of focus in a person's life, as said earlier. For

any

> person to gain eminence in any area, during DTs, it should be

supported by

> Rajyogas and Yogkarak dashas. The DTs may even go unnoticed for

ordinary

> people in everyday lives.

>

> Between them, Jupiter and Saturn share the lordship of four

consecutive

> houses of any chart. The whole quadrant of these four houses in a

natal

> placement gets the fruit of DT.

>

> Ashtakavarga point system may be applied to examine how many points

Jupiter

> and Saturn's points have both in the natal chart and in their

transiting

> sign. If they are higher than 5 points then their results will be more

> beneficial. If they are less than 2 points then their results will be

less

> beneficial. All these factors will modify the relative strength of the

> double transit.

>

> We need to synthesise the results based on the above factors,

otherwise we

> can miss the focal point of the chart during the time period in

question and

> thus lose valuable insights. We will keep flashing on the whole chart

and

> fail to pin down the event.

>

> There is always one single time for any event to happen in one's life

and it

> can be shown through appropriate astrological analysis.

>

> Hope I am able to make myself clear.

>

> Regards

> neelam

>

>

>

>

> On 03/04/2008, Sreenadh sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Chandra Hari ji,

> > That was a nice mail exposing the fallecy of techniques like the

Double

> > Transit theory of KN Rao; and the mistake committed by people who

depend on

> > or use them to locate or pin point events. Well presented!

> > Dear all, I have uploaded this article by Chandra Hari ji in the

file

> > section of the group for future reference at:

> >

Chandra%20H\

ari/A%20Critical%20Analysis%20of%20The%20Double%20Transit%20Theory.doc

> >

> > Love and Regards,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " chandra_hari18 "

> > chandra_hari18@ wrote:

> > *The Double Transit Theory*

> >

> > Two series of articles have appeared in `The Astrological Magazine'

in

> > 1985:

> >

> > ? The first series *Three Stages of a Prediction* by the Preceptor

> > Sri KN. Rao was concluded in the August 1985 issue.

> >

> > ? The second series *Broad Timing of Marriage* by a number of

> > disciples appeared in the June 1986 issue.

> >

> > *Oral Traditional Secret*

> >

> > The following description can be seen on page 631 of the

Astrological

> > Magazine, August 1985.

> >

> > " I was lucky that an old astrologer on his way to a pilgrimage spot

had

> > come to me to help him cast a horoscope and, in return, like a true

Satwik

> > Brahmin, he taught, he should give to me something as a parting

gift. He

> > repeatedly told me, " nothing in the world can happen unless Saturn

and

> > Jupiter plan it out. You cannot even produce a child without their

blessing

> > " . I hope I have proven the theory of the old pandit satisfactorily

in

> > this paper.

> >

> > But let me once again make it clear that my mother, who would

outlined the

> > whole theory for me because she herself learnt it from an old Andhra

Brahmin

> > of Masulipatnam more than 60 years ago, told me to work out for more

details

> > after casting the horoscope correctly and give predictions not

merely on the

> > transit of these planets but also on the basis of Saptamsa and

Mahadasa, sub

> > -dasa, sub-sub-dasa and wherever necessary work even on the Sookshma

> > dasa... "

> >

> > *The theory in nutshell*

> >

> > The theory can be applied on any bhⶡ for predicting or timing

the

> > manifestation of the respective signification-like the birth of

children

> > from the fifth house or the event of marriage from the seventh

house. The

> > salient features of the theory are:

> >

> >

> > - Saturn is the primary approver of the heavenly administration.

> >

> > **

> >

> > To quote the disciples in the context of marriage i.e. VIIth house:

> >

> > " Saturn unites the bride and the bride groom. Saturn in consultation

with

> > Jupiter proposes how and when to tie the conjugal knot. So they

influence

> > both the bride and the bridegroom " .

> >

> > Technique of prediction can be well understood from the IInd series

of

> > papers beginning with 'Broad Timing of Marriage-I'.

> >

> > Saturn should have aspected within one to two and a half years of a

> > marriage:

> >

> > (a) Lagna or Lagna lord representing the marriageable bride or

> > bridegroom.

> >

> > (b) The VIIth house or the VIIth lord, which represent the husband

or

> > wife.

> >

> > Saturn therefore must have covered one aspect each from (a) and (b)

> > above, which means before anyone's marriage Saturn should have

aspected:

> >

> > (1) Lagna and the VIIth house or VIIth lord

> >

> > (2) Lagna lord and the VIIth house or VIIth lord.

> >

> > (1) *Role of Jupiter*

> >

> > Apply the same principle as for Saturn to Jupiter's transit but

within a

> > year generally, sometimes fifteen months.

> >

> > *(2) **Author's claim*

> >

> > **

> >

> > " ?At the end of each article in the summary and conclusions we will

prove

> > the Supra-Scientific Validity of Hindu astrology by establishing

that the

> > principles we have arrived at are applicable to more than 80% cases

straight

> > away. In physical sciences when 60% results are obtained it is

accepted as

> > valid research. In astrology when we attain much higher percentage

we still

> > are open to accusation, because no one tolerates a failed

prediction... "

> >

> > **

> >

> > *Critical examination of the Theory*

> >

> > For illustrating the discrepancy let us consider the first example

of Pt.

> > Jawaharlal Nehru in detail (A.M. June 1986 Page 483) (Marriage took

place in

> > February 1916 only even though in those days marriageable age was

very low

> > like say, 22-28 or even 18-25)

> >

> > *Data of Ephemeris*

> >

> > **

> >

> > *Saturn (T)**

> >

> > (1) Moved into Gemini on 20 June 1914

> >

> > (2) Became retrograde on 16 October 1914

> >

> > (3) Became direct on 27 February 1915

> >

> > (4) Became retrograde on 30 October 1915

> >

> > (5) Became direct on 12 March 1916

> >

> > *(T)-means " in transit "

> >

> > During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as,

Jupiter

> > (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but

marriage

> > didn't took place during the year that followed. Why?

> >

> > At the time of marriage, Saturn (T) was in Gemini and retrogression,

which

> > began on 30.10.1915, was used to explain the event. Also in the case

of

> > Jupiter, transit across Aquarius/ Pisces was used. So at the time of

event,

> > both Saturn and Jupiter in transit had to influence 8 out of 12

houses by

> > occupation and aspects, to fulfill the conditions of the theory.

> >

> > Now consider the earlier period in which Saturn (T) was in Taurus.

> >

> > *Data of Ephemeris:* Saturn (T)**

> >

> > **

> >

> > (1) Moves into Taurus on 7 May 1912

> >

> > (2) Retrograde on 17 Sept 1912

> >

> > (3) Direct on 29 January 1913

> >

> > (4) Retrograde on 02 October 1913

> >

> > (5) Direct on 12 February 1914.

> >

> > From 7th may 1912, Saturn (T) occupying Taurus aspected the Lagna of

groom

> > and by virtue of retrogression aspected from Aries the seventh house

during:

> > *(1)* September 1912 to 29 January 1913 and *(2)* 2nd October 1913

to 12

> > February 1914.

> >

> > During the period *(1)* of retrogression, Jupiter aspected both the

Lagna

> > and VIIth lord by moving from Scorpio to Sagittarius. Thus the above

> > period or the one-year that followed was quite appropriate for

marriage. But

> > nothing happened. Why?

> >

> > During period *(2)* of retrogression, 2.10.1913 to 12.02.1914

Jupiter

> > moved from Sagittarius to Capricorn and satisfied the conditions.

But again,

> > there was no marriage in the following year.

> >

> > From the above discussion it is apparent that in the case of Saturn

(T),

> > if we consider any span of 2.5 to 2 years or even less, (within

which there

> > will be obviously retrogression and probably transit also) for any

possible

> > occupancy of any two parameters at least one of them will fall under

the

> > influence of Saturn (T) in almost all cases. This is because during

such a

> > span of time Saturn (T) influences 8 out of 12 houses.

> >

> > In the case of Jupiter, similar is the situation, if we consider any

span

> > of one-year or even slightly less.

> >

> > Anomaly described above is visible in all examples and hence the

> > hypothesis is not valid. Situation may differ slightly due to

clustering.

> >

> > *Other related points are:*

> >

> > **

> >

> > (1) The condition of marriageable age has no relevance.

> >

> > (2) The failure of the theory is implicit in the fact that it is not

> > applicable to the horoscopes of twins.

> >

> > (3) Jupiter according to the authors sometimes takes 15 months to

fulfill

> > the conditions. This is due to clustering of factors and can be

> > mathematically explained. It must be noted here that the average

tenancy of

> > Jupiter in a house is only 361 days. Authors have found this period,

which

> > is less than a year as insufficient for their theory. Requirement of

15

> > months emerged from the need for a transit of Jupiter into another

sign or

> > retrogression so that influence can be located over the preceding

sign - in

> > short for bringing in another four houses.

> >

> > The above points can be made clearer using the theory of

probability.

> >

> > **

> >

> > *Mathematical analogy*

> >

> > There are two sets of parameters (2 each) in our problem, signifying

the

> > bride and the groom. Mathematically the problem is distributions of

2 balls

> > in 12 boxes out of which 8 are under the Saturn Saturnine influence

i.e. say

> > the 8 are marked.

> >

> > For simplicity, we will take the maximum occupancy of the

significators in

> > one box as one. The probability that both the balls will falls in

the 8

> > marked boxes.

> >

> > = *8C**2** .4Co* = *28 * -------------> (A)

> >

> > 12 C2 66

> >

> > With maximum occupancy as one two significators can form 66

configurations

> > in 12 boxes out of which in 28 both significators will be under the

> > influence of Saturn.

> >

> > The probability of finding only one in the marked boxes

> >

> > = 2. * 8C1. 4C1* = *32 * ----------------------------> (B)

> >

> > 12C2 66

> >

> > In 32 out of 66 cases only one will be under the Saturn influence.

> >

> > The probability of finding both the balls out of the 8 marked boxes.

> >

> > = *8Co. 4C2* = 66* * --------------------------> ©

> >

> > 12 C2 66

> >

> > From results (A) and (b) the total probability of finding at least

one of

> > the significators in 8 houses influenced by Saturn

> >

> > = *32* + *28* = *60*

> >

> > 66 66 66

> >

> > I.e. in 60 out of the possible 66 cases. That is more than 90%. This

is

> > the result that the authors have got using the collected data. Same

is the

> > case with Jupiter (T). This analysis is applicable to the 2 each

> > significators of both the bride as well as groom.

> >

> > Relative placement of Saturn (T) and Jupiter (T) as well as

clustering of

> > significators can influence the result to some extent. In some

clustered

> > cases, the relative placement of Jupiter (T) and Saturn (T)

compensate for

> > clustering.

> >

> > Also when we collect samples randomly, we do not collect one each of

all

> > possible configurations. Configurations represented by (A) and (B)

collected

> > in plenty can take the result to 100%. In a set of randomly

collected data

> > the influence of cases represented by © will be quite negligible.

> >

> > Against the above scientific analysis and observations, it will be

> > interesting to note the conclusions of the authors on page484 of the

June

> > issue:

> >

> > *''...© We are prepared to accept any challenge from anyone in an

open

> > technical debate to demonstrate the near-infallibility of our

research.*

> >

> > *(d) Our percentage in 27 months is 97.5% success, soaring beyond

the

> > theory of probability.*

> >

> > *(e) If only a period of nine months is taken, even then we do not

fall

> > below 80%.*

> >

> > *(f) We shall use 100 horoscopes in this paper though we have tested

our

> > research on more than a thousand by now... " *

> >

> > **

> >

> > From the analysis given using the probability theory it is evident

that

> > the above hypothesis of " Double-transit " may appear true in all

horoscopes

> > for all times if we use two or more than two significators, As such

the

> > empirical substantiation on 1000 horoscopes is nothing but a

deceptive

> > outcome of the awry research. With this kind of reports it is better

not to

> > claim any 'Supra - Scientific' validity for Hindu astrology.

> >

> > The students of astrology can have a very valuable lesson from the

series

> > of articles discussed above:

> >

> > * " Hi-fi language, challenging tones & quotations from old Pandits

need

> > not reflect the Scientific Content. " *

> >

> > The above discussion can be applied to the article 'Close timing of

> > Marriage III' (December 1986 issue of A.M.) to disprove the same.

All the

> > four rules given on page 931 lose its validity.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Respected All member, Namaste, I m learner in yhis field but not unaware with this holy science.I would like to make a request to all plz do not waste our time & energy in the war of word.In my opinion what Mr.Rao Saheb has done for the astrology is not hidden with anybody in present scenario.It could not be ignored.Today Mrs Neelam Gupta has written about DT theory,It is 100% true.Only thing is, we have to go thru the deeper side of the theory.What I mean to say if there is some error in this theory,we have to go for further research & do something positive.Yes,Rao Saheb is also a man but not a common man, infact man with great calibre. yes,I m agree with Mr.Chandra hari Ji & Mr.Sreenadh ji that Rao Saheb may not be 100% correct in MB theory & DT theory.But It is responsiblity of both of u

bcoz both r ace astrologer.I m telling fact I did not see even Mr.Rao nor I m cnnected with BVB but thru different sources I can understand him & his work for astrology.If I m right when he was fighting with pseudo scientist & intellectual in Madras high court & Hyderabad high court & later in Supreme court of India nobody was standing with him for astrology.In 2001 when hearing was on that time he was ill even he was not able to walk but he went in the court to put his all experience before the court ultimately he won the prestigeous battle.My writing does mean to hurt anybody.Plz take It as dedication of single man. Thanks & Regds Dev neelam gupta <neelamgupta07 wrote: Dear Sreenadh ji and Mr. Chandra Hari ji, Namaste, I was not in town, so am a bit late in responding to this post. Nevertheless, I thought of posting my views on this issue. I am writing this not because of my BVB connection, but only because I felt there is some lack of understanding regarding the applicability of the double transit phenomenon. When we start our journey towards a goal, we encounter numerous paths towards that goal, you walk some, you take turns, come back a while but continue the journey… we go on imbibing and drawing from all sources… and form our own opinions and insights...but never forget to respect and give credit where its

due... BVB was my first path in astrology...from where I have come a long way... still have a long way to go… To err is human...applies equally to all and KN Rao may be no exception. And, if we take in everything without questioning and reasoning, it only reflects our own shortcoming as learners and we cannot hope to progress without healthy arguments and criticism.At the same time we cannot forget that KN Rao has credibility, a huge experience backed with an equally massive body of work. His free spirit and inquisitive nature has made him an iconic figure in his field. In his enthusiasm to bring this divine science to the fore, he has dished out some invaluable tenets, which unfortunately have been least understood also. And obviously, he does not have the time and inclination to justify everything to everyone. Since we share the membership of this forum, I thought of clarifying a few things.

The Double Transit (DT) phenomenon is a unique happening in an individual's life. It cannot be taken lightly, nor could it be wished away lightly. All over our shastras we get mention of how Jupiter and Saturn influence our lives. If actually the theory applies to most happenings, and we get ample proof of that, it must be creditworthy and we should try to understand it in the right perspective. First I would like to clarify Mr. Chandra Hari's point: During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as, Jupiter (T) placed in Capricorn satisfied the conditions of the theory but marriage didn't took place during the year that followed. Why? The theory says that most of the marriages will happen when double transit is on Lagna/lagna lord or 7H/7L, but it does not say that vice versa is also true, i.e whenever such a double transit happens the person will get married!!! …everyone will be marrying again and again. The article referred to by you Mr. Chandra Hari, only justifies that the theory holds good, but is not trying to explain why the event never happened on other similar situations. Double transit is one important aspect, but before it happens, the person has to be ready with the promise in the chart and a conducive dasha. In Nehru's case, the marriage could happen in venus-sun only which was the strongest dasha for marriage. Sun is the dispositor of 7L Saturn in D-1,

it is 7L of navamsha and is with 7L Saturn in navamsh in cancer which is natal lagna. Prior to this venus antar is not strong enough for marriage as in D-1, venus has no connection with 7H/7L or lagna/LL. Only 7L aspects venus which might give inclination for marriage and bride-hunting, etc.. In navamsh also venus herself is not connected to 7H, but aspected by Jup from 7H (if at all one has to consider navamsha aspects). Venus-sun qualifies as the dasha where marriage has to take place. KN Rao has formulated certain parameters regarding use of double transit for marriage as marriage is one of the most important happening in one's life and is a core astrology issue. For easy applicability he has pointed out where to look for marriage-related transits. Before applying the

theory, we should follow certain basic astrological principles...though they are very simple and known to all learned astrologers... we tend to ignore them in order to prove a point...We must be clear in our minds as to what the DT implies. It is not activation of the whole chart as assumed by some. Although both Jupiter and Saturn activate four houses each by placement and aspect, for DT one has to look for that one house that is jointly influenced. It could only be one single house by aspect. This should be strictly followed while applying the theory, without giving any relaxation including retrogression which should only be of secondary importance. When there is DT on a sign,

it assumes significance in the native's life. This is the time when these two planets compliment each other's qualities and together they indicate events regarding the areas of life that are signified by the house. This is the house lit up for action. However, these events can be both positive and negative. It could be achievement, breakthroughs, and progress in the area signified or pitfalls, downfalls and failures also in such areas. First and foremost is the activated house and its related activities, then we may extend it to lordships.We generally think of Jupiter's transits as positive and beneficial and increasing the significations of any house that it transits or aspects, causing expansion and growth and providing new opportunities. Likewise, we think of Saturn's transits as negative and detrimental, causing limitation, obstacles, challenges and denial of the significations of the house that it transits or aspects. To see how the double transit will

actually operate and what will be the impact on the native, one needs to exercise a logical and out-of-box approach. Jupiter may not be apparently beneficial and Saturn challenging for a native. Always remember the law of karmas unfolding and the planets only responsible for giving the dues according to Desh-Kaal-Patra.There is always a natal DT house. The house which always remains significant for an individual. E.g a person with Jupiter in lagna and Saturn in 8H, it will be the 5th activities that assume importance in the natives life. This house will gain prominence throughout their life. Also, when the double transit aspects to this house expect intensified results.The natal imprint of planets is most important and DT always supports the promise in the chart. An individual, who is not promised marriage in the natal chart, cannot marry only by strength of a double transit.It is also related to the natal Jupiter and Saturn and their role in the chart. It is also important to see the relative strengths of Jupiter and Saturn in the natal chart. This can be done by seeing their sign and house placement, their house rulership, as well as the planets that aspect them. This will modify the relative strength of their transits. While it can sound reliable and promising, the yogas and dashas need to be considered even before the DT. If we rely only on transits to produce results, even the double transit, we may be disappointed. If the

progress and achievements that the double transit indicates don't have the support of the yogas and dashas they will not come to full fruition. It may only remain limited to an area of focus in a person's life, as said earlier. For any person to gain eminence in any area, during DTs, it should be supported by Rajyogas and Yogkarak dashas. The DTs may even go unnoticed for ordinary people in everyday lives. Between them, Jupiter and Saturn share the lordship of four consecutive houses of any chart. The whole quadrant of these four houses in a natal placement gets the fruit of DT. Ashtakavarga point system may be applied to examine how many points Jupiter and Saturn's points have both in the natal chart and in their transiting sign. If they are higher than 5 points then their results will be more beneficial. If they are less than 2 points then their

results will be less beneficial. All these factors will modify the relative strength of the double transit. We need to synthesise the results based on the above factors, otherwise we can miss the focal point of the chart during the time period in question and thus lose valuable insights. We will keep flashing on the whole chart and fail to pin down the event. There is always one single time for any event to happen in one's life and it can be shown through appropriate astrological analysis.Hope I am able to make myself clear.RegardsneelamOn 03/04/2008, Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Chandra Hari ji, That was a nice mail exposing the fallecy of techniques like the Double Transit theory of KN Rao; and the mistake committed by people who depend on or use them to locate or pin point events. Well presented! Dear all, I have uploaded this article by Chandra Hari ji in the file section of the group for future reference at: Chandra%20Hari/A%20Critical%20Analysis%20of%20The%20Double%20Transit%20Theory.doc Love and Regards,Sreenadh , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote: The Double Transit Theory Two series of articles have appeared in `The Astrological Magazine' in 1985: ? The first series Three Stages of a Prediction by the Preceptor Sri KN. Rao was concluded in the

August 1985 issue. ? The second series Broad Timing of Marriage by a number of disciples appeared in the June 1986 issue. Oral Traditional Secret The following description can be seen on page 631 of the Astrological Magazine, August 1985. "I was lucky that an old astrologer on his way to a pilgrimage spot had come to me to help him cast a horoscope and, in return, like a true Satwik Brahmin, he taught, he should give to me something as a parting gift. He repeatedly told me, "nothing in the world can happen unless Saturn and Jupiter plan it out. You cannot even produce a child without their blessing". I hope I have proven the theory of the old pandit satisfactorily in this paper. But let me once again make it clear that my mother, who would outlined the whole theory for me because she herself learnt it from an old Andhra Brahmin of Masulipatnam more than 60 years ago, told me to work out for

more details after casting the horoscope correctly and give predictions not merely on the transit of these planets but also on the basis of Saptamsa and Mahadasa, sub -dasa, sub-sub-dasa and wherever necessary work even on the Sookshma dasa..." The theory in nutshell The theory can be applied on any bhⶡ for predicting or timing the manifestation of the respective signification-like the birth of children from the fifth house or the event of marriage from the seventh house. The salient features of the theory are: Saturn is the primary approver of the heavenly administration. To quote the disciples in the context of marriage i.e. VIIth house: "Saturn unites the bride and the bride groom. Saturn in consultation with Jupiter proposes how and when to tie the conjugal knot. So they influence both the bride and the bridegroom". Technique of prediction can be well understood from the IInd series of papers beginning with 'Broad Timing of Marriage-I'. Saturn should have aspected within one to two and a half years of a marriage: (a) Lagna or Lagna lord representing the marriageable bride or

bridegroom. (b) The VIIth house or the VIIth lord, which represent the husband or wife. Saturn therefore must have covered one aspect each from (a) and (b) above, which means before anyone's marriage Saturn should have aspected: (1) Lagna and the VIIth house or VIIth lord (2) Lagna lord and the VIIth house or VIIth lord. (1) Role of Jupiter Apply the same principle as for Saturn to Jupiter's transit but within a

year generally, sometimes fifteen months. (2) Author's claim "?At the end of each article in the summary and conclusions we will prove the Supra-Scientific Validity of Hindu astrology by establishing that the principles we have arrived at are applicable to more than 80% cases straight away. In physical sciences when 60% results are obtained it is accepted as valid research. In astrology when we attain much higher percentage we still are open to accusation, because no one tolerates a failed

prediction..." Critical examination of the Theory For illustrating the discrepancy let us consider the first example of Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru in detail (A.M. June 1986 Page 483) (Marriage took place in February 1916 only even though in those days marriageable age was very low like say, 22-28 or even 18-25) Data of Ephemeris Saturn (T)* (1) Moved into Gemini on 20 June 1914 (2) Became retrograde on 16 October 1914 (3) Became direct on 27 February 1915 (4) Became retrograde on 30 October 1915 (5) Became direct on 12 March 1916 *(T)-means "in transit" During first retrogression from 16.10.1914 Saturn (T) as well as, Jupiter (T) placed in Capricorn

satisfied the conditions of the theory but marriage didn't took place during the year that followed. Why? At the time of marriage, Saturn (T) was in Gemini and retrogression, which began on 30.10.1915, was used to explain the event. Also in the case of Jupiter, transit across Aquarius/ Pisces was used. So at the time of event, both Saturn and Jupiter in transit had to influence 8 out of 12 houses by occupation and aspects, to fulfill the conditions of the theory. Now consider the earlier period in which Saturn (T) was in Taurus. Data of Ephemeris: Saturn (T) (1) Moves into Taurus on 7 May 1912 (2) Retrograde on 17 Sept 1912 (3) Direct on 29 January 1913 (4) Retrograde on 02 October 1913 (5) Direct on 12 February 1914. From 7th may 1912, Saturn (T) occupying Taurus aspected the Lagna of groom and by virtue of retrogression aspected from Aries the seventh house during: (1) September 1912 to 29 January 1913 and (2) 2nd October 1913 to 12 February 1914. During the period (1) of retrogression, Jupiter aspected both the Lagna and VIIth lord by moving from Scorpio to Sagittarius. Thus the above period or the one-year that followed was quite appropriate for marriage. But nothing happened. Why? During period (2) of retrogression, 2.10.1913 to 12.02.1914 Jupiter moved from Sagittarius to Capricorn and satisfied the conditions. But again, there was no marriage in the following year.

From the above discussion it is apparent that in the case of Saturn (T), if we consider any span of 2.5 to 2 years or even less, (within which there will be obviously retrogression and probably transit also) for any possible occupancy of any two parameters at least one of them will fall under the influence of Saturn (T) in almost all cases. This is because during such a span of time Saturn (T) influences 8 out of 12 houses. In the case of Jupiter, similar is the situation, if we consider any span of one-year or even slightly less. Anomaly described above is visible in all examples and hence the hypothesis is not valid. Situation may differ slightly due to clustering. Other related points are: (1) The condition of marriageable age has no relevance. (2) The failure of the theory is implicit in the fact that it is not applicable to the horoscopes of twins. (3) Jupiter according to the authors sometimes takes 15 months to fulfill the conditions. This is due to clustering of factors and can be mathematically explained. It must be noted here that the average tenancy of Jupiter in a house is only 361 days. Authors have found this period, which is less than a year as insufficient for their theory. Requirement of 15 months emerged from the need for a transit of Jupiter into another sign or retrogression so that influence can be located

over the preceding sign - in short for bringing in another four houses. The above points can be made clearer using the theory of probability. Mathematical analogy There are two sets of parameters (2 each) in our problem, signifying the bride and the groom.

Mathematically the problem is distributions of 2 balls in 12 boxes out of which 8 are under the Saturn Saturnine influence i.e. say the 8 are marked. For simplicity, we will take the maximum occupancy of the significators in one box as one. The probability that both the balls will falls in the 8 marked boxes. = 8C2 .4Co = 28 -------------> (A) 12 C2 66 With maximum occupancy as one two significators can form 66 configurations in 12 boxes out of which in 28 both significators will be under the influence of Saturn. The probability of finding only one in the marked boxes = 2. 8C1. 4C1 = 32 ----------------------------> (B)

12C2 66 In 32 out of 66 cases only one will be under the Saturn influence. The probability of finding both the balls out of the 8 marked boxes. = 8Co. 4C2 = 66

--------------------------> © 12 C2 66 From results (A) and (b) the total probability of finding at least one of the significators in 8 houses influenced by Saturn = 32 + 28 = 60 66 66 66 I.e. in 60 out of the possible 66 cases. That is more than 90%. This is the result that the authors have got using the collected data. Same is the case with Jupiter (T). This

analysis is applicable to the 2 each significators of both the bride as well as groom. Relative placement of Saturn (T) and Jupiter (T) as well as clustering of significators can influence the result to some extent. In some clustered cases, the relative placement of Jupiter (T) and Saturn (T) compensate for clustering. Also when we collect samples randomly, we do not collect one each of all possible configurations. Configurations represented by (A) and (B) collected in plenty can take the result to 100%. In a set of randomly collected data the influence of cases represented by

© will be quite negligible. Against the above scientific analysis and observations, it will be interesting to note the conclusions of the authors on page484 of the June issue: ''...© We are prepared to accept any challenge from anyone in an open technical debate to demonstrate the near-infallibility of our research. (d) Our percentage in 27 months is 97.5% success, soaring beyond the theory of probability. (e) If only a period of nine months is taken, even then we do not fall below 80%. (f) We shall use 100 horoscopes in this paper though we have tested our research on more than a thousand by now..." From the analysis given using the probability theory it is evident that the above hypothesis of "Double-transit" may appear true in all horoscopes for all times if we use two or more than two significators, As such the empirical substantiation on 1000 horoscopes is nothing but a deceptive outcome of the awry research. With this kind of reports it is better not to claim any

'Supra - Scientific' validity for Hindu astrology. The students of astrology can have a very valuable lesson from the series of articles discussed above: " Hi-fi language, challenging tones & quotations from old Pandits need not reflect the Scientific Content." The above discussion can be applied to the article 'Close timing of Marriage III' (December 1986 issue of A.M.) to disprove the same. All the four rules given on page 931 lose its validity.

You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandra Hari ji,Namaste,

While climbing a mountain, we see several paths on the way up – difficult, steep paths, cutting through each other. All other paths except ours seem to be going the wrong way. But upon reaching the top, the same paths appear easy. When you can see everything in its totality, in one expanse, you see that all the paths are running toward the peak. Neither do they cut each other off, nor do they run against each other. But when one who is looking down from the top of the mountain says that all paths are leading to the top, or when he tells one person that this path is right and another person that it is wrong, then it creates confusion….

I know that I am not here to prophesize, but there is a vast difference between our approach to the same goal. I'll try to explain once more and answer your questions. If you can draw some meaning from this, my effort would be worth, otherwise also it is good enough. We both carry on with our journeys… if all start thinking alike, there would be no growth...

The problem is very simple if approached in a simple manner, I'll give an example first and then answer your queries. Girl born on 20.10.1981/16.14/delhi. She has pisces lagna with lagna lord Jupiter in 7H along with 7L mercury. (now don't say I've taken a clustered chart, each chart has its own peculiarities)

In June 2005, she was looking for the following events in her life: 1) Find a good job 2) Get married 3) go abroad for studies 4) recovery of mother who was sick. Now broadly in that period, Saturn was in cancer and Jupiter was in virgo. Her 7H was activated with double transit as well as 11th house.

At a glance, what can we say about the four events that she is expecting from DT point of view? Job - may be Marriage - yes Abroad - no Mother - no She had been running the mercury mahadasha who is her 4L/7L since 1995. So it was the dasha-bhukti that prepared the grounds and in Mer-ra-mer she got married and got the job in mer-ra-sa. She didn't go abroad. Her mother became worse as the DT on 11th house is 8th from 4th and 7th from her natal moon. Her mother recovered when the DT was on her 8H.

What KN Rao has suggested in his article is that when one gets married, Jupiter and Saturn are contacting one or the other of the 4 points of the natal chart. Your statistical model may show it happening all the times, but in reality it is not so easy to find a convergence of all three – promise-dasha-transit, in any expected time duration.

Even for marriage, if you try to extract the time of simultaneous fulfilment of natal promise, dasha-bhukti results and then DT influence within a span of say 10 marriageable years, you will find periods when DT is not on the desired points or is very weak. In the example, we can see that when sat transits in leo in 2007, DT will not be influencing any of the parameters, except for some months in retrogression. And Jupiter in libra will again not contact DT points. A weak transit may give results only when the promise and dasha are very strong.

Let us forget the 7H, this is the most benevolent house…everyone is blessed with the fruits of this house. So DT or no DT, dasha or no dasha, everyone gets married sooner or later. And those who don't have inherent weakness in the chart and no amount of DTs will give them marriage.

Let us look for other houses for the DT. If you look at any chart at any point of time, do you think Saturn and Jupiter are influencing all the houses at all times? No. In the example, at the time of query in June 2005, let us take the influence house-wise/lordwise:

House/L Jup Sat DT 1H/1L +/+ -/+ + (good) 2H/2L -/- +/- - 3H/3L +/- -/- -

4H/4L -/- -/- - 5H/5L -/- +/+ - 6H/6L -/- -/- - 7H/7L +/+ +/+ + (strong)

8H/8L -/- -/- - 9H/9L -/- -/- - 10H/10L -/+ -/+ + (weak) 11H/11L +/- +/+ + (strong)

12H/12L -/- -/+ - Here you can see which houses and lords are influenced. DT is strongest on 7H and 11H and lagna. It is also there to some extent on the 10H. So we may predict that results pertaining to these houses might fructify if there is promise in natal chart and dasha at this moment supports it. DT has not touched the 4H, 6H, 8H and 9H and their lords at all.

Beyond this, taking from moon and retrogression are only to strengthen the already existing strong indicators for an event. They are the secondary factors. When out of the 3 things, first two are strong enough, thirds can be weak.

Now coming to your questions: (find your questions in red)I am finding a lot of contradictions in your reply. Do you deny the statistical model and results I have given? If not, with DT any event can be justified at any time. And you understand this and therefore has spoken of other conditions like Dasa_bhukti. If so what is the use of DT?

There are no contradictions in my reply. And having studied a bit of statistics, I do agree that the probability of planets touching the points is high, but you'll not find more that than 2-3 times in the entire span of expected duration for an event. As I have explained earlier, DT is only a transit phenomenon and it can't be taken in isolation, i.e without the natal placements and dasha-bhukti. Then you've got to exercise your own judgment to arrive at any conclusion. (isn't it the case with all astrological principles)

So called DT influence will be there always on either the house or lord from Lagna or Moon as Sri Rao has discussed in his examples. I think you are speaking beyond Rao in explaining his theory.

In the examples discussed by KNR, the DT might have been applied from moon etc. also to drive home a point. But the fact remains that it does impact certain points at certain times. You cannot say DT will always be impacting all the houses and all the lords at all times. Like all other astrological parameters, this is also one of the factors which seems to be important.

If your astrological wisdom says that Venus-Venus is a less likely period for marriage compared to Venus-Sun, because of the dispositor factor, can you explain other events of Nehru's life as well with the same astrology?

I've already given my points, now I would like you to tell me whether it is venus or sun antar which is more likely to give marriage, according to your techniques? I think you have to create a different astrology to explain the DT theory and to accept the same, all students must be debarred from being critical of it.

Can't comment on this You have written wonderful English but I doubt whether the account you have given justifies the DT theory or not? This is your judgment.

Imagine someone saying that marriages take place during any of the 365 days of the year. And he calls it an astrological theory and then he says that to fix the month, week and day additional rules are required. What then is the use of the 365 day theory?

I have told you the way I understand the theory, you may ignore it or not accept it, its up to you. Sri Rao says that marriage and other house significations fructify when DT influence is there on the house and lord. This is always there, at all times, all through one's life. With DT any event can be justified at any time, the way Sri Rao has done in his articles by taking Vakra, + - 6 months etc. I feel you are justifying his theory because you have not read seriously what Sri Rao has written.

Yes, I have not read the article, but have heard him talk about the principle and without getting into how it is presented in the article, I am trying to tell you how it should be seen. Our purpose is to understand and apply, not to get into petty issues.

Please read Sri Rao's articles referred in my write up and then reply within the frame of what he has written and published and euologised as the greatest research in astrology.

I assure you that I'll read the article soon enough. But my reading of anybody's work is directed towards finding what is useful, applicable and replicable. Whether the work is great or not, that time can only tell.

I am to request also that Neelam Gupta may comment also on Sri Rao's Mrtyubhaga modification theory. Thanks for the honour. I've read your postings about it. I was not aware of the modifications. Even if he has done it, may be his experience and observations demanded so. Don't we get several theories and principles on all scientific issues. Some of them may be quite contrary to others. You are in astronomy and you know there have been umpteen theories floating about the origin of universe in the past and still more are being added, new stars and planets and satellites are being discovered. Similarly, we can't sit for long on our glorified past only…that too when it's scattered and available in bits and pieces. We need to evolve with the scientific approach and there is room for experimentation. We need not accept all the doctrines and theories proposed by all. We are free to exercise our choice and reject what we don't find working in our scheme of things. At least somebody is exploring various possibilities and baring all to scrutiny, not keeping the techniques hidden. I have great respect for our shastras and Horas, but I also don't want to ignore contemporary researches. I want to explore everything with an open mind.

My apologies if my words are harsh or if I have not understood what you have spoken No issues Cahndra Hari ji, I take it as your way of showing concern. You may be right, or I may be right or both may be right… there is ample scope for all to coexist…we may only pray that we get what we seek…

After this I quit, as I don't want to get dragged into useless squabble… All the best Regards neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandra Hari ji,Now that we've arrived at a mutual understanding….let me just add a little more jargon to the pages that I've already

filled.

Such debates could be unending and we are

not on ego trips. Neither are we running any personal vendetta. Looking at the positive

side….the underscoring signal is…that it is now time for astrology to take

roots and grow. It is now in intelligent, educated hands who know how to sift

grain from the chaff.

Any theory, new or old can never be 100 per

cent right, especially in the field of astrology. But it's better to light a

candle than curse the darkness….at least that is what I feel.

Somewhere you also agree that it can work

with some modifications. How we modify it, how we apply it, is up to our

individual calibre. If we are able to refine it to a state where its

applicability is statistically sound, it would be wonderful!

Let the wealth of researches and findings by

all learned and experienced astros grow… and we reap the advantage of picking, applying

and if need be, modifying to the best of our ability…

…doubt is the beginning not the end of

wisdom.regardsneelam

On 07/04/2008, chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Neelam ji,

 

You have helped me by stating that -

 

1. You have not read the 'research papers' of Sri KN Rao.

 

2. You have given advanced expression of the feeling that I will

classify your example as a clustered one. In fact it really is.

 

Your reply shows that you understand statistics and you have understood

what I have written. You really understood the implications of

'clustering' which I have mentioned.

 

3. You are also aware that Sri Rao's work had been using Houses/Lords

from Moon as well and he had been using a period of 1 year + - 6 months

to involve a Jupiter transit and also he had used the Vakra of both

Jupiter and Saturn to prove his pseudoscience theory in Jyotisha.

 

So you have evaded discussion on such points. Your deliberation is

sufficient only to confuse the average reader who may not be aware of

the research methodology and the pitfalls possible in the wrong use of

data and analysis.

 

Sri Rao himself is a man of IAAS, an expert in ecconomics and statistics

and I wonder how he missed the blunder involved in his theory. You are

correcting him by deleting Moon reference from his theory but then the

theory you are speaking is not the one Sri Rao has explained in his

article and the book.

 

What I have discussed in my write up is Sri KN Rao's DT theory. You are

presenting a modified theory in defense of Rao.

 

About the MB theory too, you are not aware of the facts. You are not

aware as to how Meenakshi Raut, a disciple was made to write and publish

false claims of modification of Mrtyubhagas. Please read my write up

which has quotes of respected scholars that appeared in the astrological

magazine.

 

Is it a scrupulous action to make a disciple publish false claims?

 

Please think over.

 

chandra hari

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam Gupta and other Friends,

Neelam ji brought out the principle of DT very nicely in her mail.

As I understand :

1 Various yogas , Awastha(s) of planets , their placement ,strength etc indicate resource, potential for fortification of an event.

2. DASAS OR ANY PROGRESSION METHOD INDICATE THE TIMINGS AND PROMISE FOR AN EVENT

3 Transits indicates the fortification of an event based on the above two factors

A team of committed and intelligent astrologers were working with Mr. k.n. RAO and applied the principle of DT on several hundred nativities

on the various aspects of the life.

As Neelam ji has dealt DT in quite detail . please adopt and apply it , I am sure it will lead to more accurate prediction.

Regards,

 

G.K.GOELPh: 09350311433Add: L-409, SARITA VIHARNEW DELHI-110 076INDIA

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandra Hari ji,Namaste,You say,

" …only dislike is your effort to baptize DTT as genuine/scientific. " ...I am no authority and of no significance to baptize something.

All that I am trying to insist is that the DTT is seen to work and you will not accept it as your vision is clouded by the KNR who looms larger in your eyes than the theory itself. If you remove the KNR blinkers, and dissociate this principle from his interpretation, you'll appreciate the phenomenon. KNR does not monopolise Saturn and Jupiter. If we just catch the two words of what he's brought out – 'the double transit' and see sense in the phenomenon, I promise you, the effort will be worth it. I can see that you're wasting your good energy in unnecessary contradictions. If you do not approve of the name DT, call it by any other name.

The significance of DT cropped up again twice today, and that probably is the reason I am writing again. One, while writing on samwatsara, I noticed again a forgotten reference to DT by Pt. Dhundi Raja, "…at every sixty (60) years both the Planets reach the same zero degree (0°) of the sign of Aries. In this journey the various angles that are formed between Jupiter and Saturn have their influence on the effects of the Samvatsaras. As a matter of fact no other relationship of the other Planets affects an individual, a place or a country so much as the mutual angular relationship of Saturn and Jupiter…". Major delineations of 'Bhrigusamhita' seem to have been based on the relationship of these two Planets.

Second, some body said today that DT happens at the age of 60. We all know that Jupiter and Saturn (DT!) comes to the natal point after 60 years. Now if KNR does a research on Shashti Poorti, which might have some flaws, your fire brigade will try to extinguish that by razing the theory itself, calling it pseudo-research, where as my brigade, whatever you may call it, (not KNR brigade!), will try to draw inspiration and absorb the useful hints and move on…

We have two ways to go. Either collect data and refute all claims by KNR which is difficult as what he's said is supported by evidence, useless it may be – like we have day when the sun shines. Or modify the parameters to make it selectively not universally applicable. Choose your way and proceed. If KNR has shown door to double transit, we can only be gracious to accept and try to see what lies inside.

What is that we can consider in DT? Or want to change the name! Some parameters and suggestions I have already given in my first posting on this thread, which you called the modified version of DT. We could take examples and see how it works…with an open mind of course.

And your eyes I find closed towards the MB Theory of Sri KN Rao....Next time please...got to go now...Regardsneelam

On 08/04/2008,

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelam ji ,

Iam not in doubt and was working with Mr Rao when DT was mastered.

I AM SUGGESTING ,GIVE FEW EXAMPLES SO THAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THE GROUP GAIN

CONFIDENCE ON THE APPLICABILITY OF

DT AND MB.

Regards\

 

G.K.GOEL

Ph: 09350311433

Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR

NEW DELHI-110 076

INDIA

 

 

 

 

neelam gupta <neelamgupta07

 

Tuesday, 8 April, 2008 6:10:21 PM

Re: Re: Sri KN Rao's Double Transit Theory -

Beginning of Great Research

 

Dear Goel ji,

 

You're right.

We already have a chart alive in the forum. It was given by Sreeramji where the

native is undergoing a memory loss.

I think it has DT on 8H. I am sure we'll get some understanding with it. I'd

request you to apply the DT principles and see if there is any substance in it.

You may use the points I had given in my message no. 9297.

 

thanks and regards

neelam

[Guest guest]

Dear Neelamji,

DT on 8th House. What does it signify? Life or Death?

chandra hari

, "neelam gupta" <neelamgupta07 wrote:>> Dear Goel ji,> > You're right.> We already have a chart alive in the forum. It was given by Sreeramji where> the native is undergoing a memory loss.> I think it has DT on 8H. I am sure we'll get some understanding with it. I'd> request you to apply the DT principles and see if there is any substance in> it.> You may use the points I had given in my message no. 9297.> > thanks and regards> neelam> > On 08/04/2008, Gopal Goel gkgoel1937 wrote:> >> > Dear Neelan ji,> >> > I may give a suggestion that instead of joining issues with persons who> > are opposed to DT and MB> >> > THEORIES , why not give some concrete examples as to how these works.> >> > The savants of astrology will benefit from such examples.> >> > Three is no use to waste time in such unworthy controversies.> >> > REGARDS,> >> >> >> >> > G.K.GOEL> > Ph: 09350311433> > Add: L-409, SARITA VIHAR> > NEW DELHI-110 076> > INDIA> >> > > >>