Guest guest Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Dear Kolachina ji, It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so important. - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall strength of a planet? - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like aspects in a Rasi chart? - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal halves representing the native. I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga charts! Regards, Krishna --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > > I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > your > contributions. > > I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > inputs > you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > to > share my opinion (through my own experience). > > Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > most > probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > approaches > working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > at the > same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > chart (of > course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > any of > the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > chart > is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > in > the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > confirming > the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > chart, > how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > some > yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > navamsa > chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > > Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > rasi > chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > condiered > as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > this > considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > the > planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > positioning > within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > means, > within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > point for > the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > strength > considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > the > planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > position > of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > rasi. > In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > Rasi and > Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > them > that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > same > level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > be > viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > by the > rasi chart). > > Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > chart > alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > observed > this phenomenon in several charts. > > My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > 12th > house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > chart > with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > lagna). I am > a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > and > Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > brought > to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > my life > events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > in > the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > here; I am > just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > chart, > and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > > On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > chart > that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > the 4th > house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > education). > > I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > that > both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > isolation of > the other. > > Thanks for all your contribution. > > Best regards, > Satya S Kolachina > > > > , Chandrashekhar > <chandrashekhar46 wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > First > there is > > no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > is > perhaps > > being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > astrological > > translations many a times words are to be understood in the > context that > > they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > Swamsha > in > > alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > occupation of > > Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > adhyaaya. > > This does not mean he is speaking about two different > parameters. > I > > think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > interpretation > > of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > if he > is > > watching this discussion. > > > > If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > indicated on > > the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > promised by > > the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > rasi > chart, > > through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > hope > this > > opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > discussion on > the > > list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > worth. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > > > > > > Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > Rashi > in > > > which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > one > > > meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > > > Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > Rashi > in > > > which a graha is having amsha. > > > > > > Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > shlokas > which > > > shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > point. > > > > > > I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > > answer and > > > explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Be a PS3 game guru. 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Guest guest Posted June 29, 2007 Report Share Posted June 29, 2007 Dear Krishna, If I am add my thoughts, in KAS also we give equal importance to Rasi and Navamsa, but there is some difference. We get samdharmi's from Navamsa, we also find the procession using 10th lords from lagna sun mo and see where they are placed in navamsa. We also check say if Ve and Sa or Ma and Mo or Su and Mo are in 1:7 in navamsa then they cease to become Samdharmis. Also in addition we check blessings so if navamsa lagna and 9th lords are in 5:9 or if lagna lord and lagna 9th lord are in 5:9 in navamsa we say that there is blessing so here navamsa has its importance. However for timing of events, the power of planets are from Rasi. When navamsa is used then in that we do not check the ashtakavarga power using 4:10 or aspects, so that is for finding the power in any of the varga but we only take the basic power i.e. the addition of power of the house that u are seeing the 5th from that and 8th from that and add that as the Basic power of the house. So equal importance is given in that sense, but for timing of events we check the power, 4:10, power gained or lost due to aspects on house and lords etc only from Rasi. For samdharmis calculations we use navamsa for example if 2 planets are in 5:9 in rasi in exact they will come together in navamsa so they will become samdharmi. Planets become Samdharmi to their navamsa lords they are placed in. Planets when they conjoin in navamsa they become samdharmi however of a weaker grade as compared to navamsa depositer so things like that. In short we find the samdharmi's from rasi and navamsa. That is not done using any other d-chart. So we say that Navamsa has equal importance to Rasi. So in summary 1) For total power for timing of event is Rasi (there 4:10, aspects are used) 2) For finding samdharmi (Rasi and Navamsa are both used) 3) For finding blessing both rasi and navamsa are used 4) For finding power in Navamsa then only basic strength is used i.e. A+B+C points but no power gained due to aspects or 4:10 and that is the same we use for all D-charts. 5) For timing of events also navamsa place a role, say Sa in 5th house would delay marriage so here we are only using House in navamsa but not the lords of house in navamsa. So this is a special case as Saturn will aspect the house A, B and C of the 3rd house from where its placed. So here there is a difference where the lords of the house in navamsa are not used. 6) No other d chart is used to find Samdharmi so in that way Navamsa has equal importance as Rasi. 7) Another differnce is that panets do not become SD to the rasi lord where they are placed, but they do become SD to the navamsa lord they are placed in so again Navamsa is having its importance. This is as per the view point of KAS System and hope that it helps in the discussion. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > important. > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > strength of a planet? > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > aspects in a Rasi chart? > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > halves representing the native. > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > charts! > > Regards, > Krishna > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > > > > I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > > your > > contributions. > > > > I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > > inputs > > you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > > to > > share my opinion (through my own experience). > > > > Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > > most > > probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > > approaches > > working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > > at the > > same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > > chart (of > > course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > > any of > > the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > > chart > > is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > > doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > > occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > > in > > the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > > confirming > > the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > > chart, > > how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > > some > > yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > > navamsa > > chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > > considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > > amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > > > > Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > > rasi > > chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > > condiered > > as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > > this > > considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > > the > > planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > > positioning > > within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > > means, > > within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > > point for > > the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > > strength > > considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > > the > > planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > > position > > of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > > rasi. > > In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > > Rasi and > > Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > > them > > that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > > same > > level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > > Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > > be > > viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > > by the > > rasi chart). > > > > Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > > chart > > alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > > observed > > this phenomenon in several charts. > > > > My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > > 12th > > house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > > chart > > with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > > lagna). I am > > a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > > and > > Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > > brought > > to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > > my life > > events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > > in > > the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > > here; I am > > just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > > chart, > > and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > > > > On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > > chart > > that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > > the 4th > > house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > > education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > > education). > > > > I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > > that > > both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > > isolation of > > the other. > > > > Thanks for all your contribution. > > > > Best regards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > > First > > there is > > > no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > > is > > perhaps > > > being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > > astrological > > > translations many a times words are to be understood in the > > context that > > > they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > > Swamsha > > in > > > alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > > occupation of > > > Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > > adhyaaya. > > > This does not mean he is speaking about two different > > parameters. > > I > > > think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > > interpretation > > > of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > > if he > > is > > > watching this discussion. > > > > > > If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > > indicated on > > > the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > > promised by > > > the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > > rasi > > chart, > > > through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > > hope > > this > > > opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > > discussion on > > the > > > list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > > worth. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > > > > > > > > Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > > one > > > > meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > > > > Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha. > > > > > > > > Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > > shlokas > > which > > > > shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > > point. > > > > > > > > I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > > > > answer and > > > > explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games. > http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Dear Ash, Thanks for your inputs from KAS angle. We both have given 'what' part of the subject. However, I am looking for 'why' part. Hope I will get wome answers. Regards, Krishna --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > If I am add my thoughts, in KAS also we give equal importance > to Rasi > and Navamsa, but there is some difference. > > We get samdharmi's from Navamsa, we also find the procession > using > 10th lords from lagna sun mo and see where they are placed in > navamsa. > We also check say if Ve and Sa or Ma and Mo or Su and Mo are > in 1:7 > in navamsa then they cease to become Samdharmis. > Also in addition we check blessings so if navamsa lagna and > 9th lords > are in 5:9 or if lagna lord and lagna 9th lord are in 5:9 in > navamsa > we say that there is blessing so here navamsa has its > importance. > > However for timing of events, the power of planets are from > Rasi. > When navamsa is used then in that we do not check the > ashtakavarga > power using 4:10 or aspects, so that is for finding the power > in any > of the varga but we only take the basic power i.e. the > addition of > power of the house that u are seeing the 5th from that and 8th > from > that and add that as the Basic power of the house. > > So equal importance is given in that sense, but for timing of > events > we check the power, 4:10, power gained or lost due to aspects > on house > and lords etc only from Rasi. > > For samdharmis calculations we use navamsa for example if 2 > planets > are in 5:9 in rasi in exact they will come together in navamsa > so they > will become samdharmi. > > Planets become Samdharmi to their navamsa lords they are > placed in. > > Planets when they conjoin in navamsa they become samdharmi > however of > a weaker grade as compared to navamsa depositer so things like > that. > In short we find the samdharmi's from rasi and navamsa. > > That is not done using any other d-chart. So we say that > Navamsa has > equal importance to Rasi. > > So in summary > > 1) For total power for timing of event is Rasi (there 4:10, > aspects > are used) > 2) For finding samdharmi (Rasi and Navamsa are both used) > 3) For finding blessing both rasi and navamsa are used > 4) For finding power in Navamsa then only basic strength is > used i.e. > A+B+C points but no power gained due to aspects or 4:10 and > that is > the same we use for all D-charts. > 5) For timing of events also navamsa place a role, say Sa in > 5th house > would delay marriage so here we are only using House in > navamsa but > not the lords of house in navamsa. So this is a special case > as > Saturn will aspect the house A, B and C of the 3rd house from > where > its placed. So here there is a difference where the lords of > the > house in navamsa are not used. > 6) No other d chart is used to find Samdharmi so in that way > Navamsa > has equal importance as Rasi. > 7) Another differnce is that panets do not become SD to the > rasi lord > where they are placed, but they do become SD to the navamsa > lord they > are placed in so again Navamsa is having its importance. > > > This is as per the view point of KAS System and hope that it > helps in > the discussion. > > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > <krishna_1998 wrote: > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > the > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > chart is > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > so > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > what > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > important. > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > > strength of a planet? > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > like > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > as if > > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > it > > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > equal > > halves representing the native. > > > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What > I > > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > What > > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > varga > > charts! > > > > Regards, > > Krishna > > > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > > > Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > > > > > > I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > > > your > > > contributions. > > > > > > I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > > > inputs > > > you are providing to the astrological community. I would > like > > > to > > > share my opinion (through my own experience). > > > > > > Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart > alone > > > most > > > probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > > > approaches > > > working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very > valuable; > > > at the > > > same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > > > chart (of > > > course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), > since > > > any of > > > the varga charts will not give independent results if the > Rasi > > > chart > > > is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi > chart > > > doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in > several > > > occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas > viewed > > > in > > > the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > > > confirming > > > the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a > separate > > > chart, > > > how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of > checking > > > some > > > yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > > > navamsa > > > chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > > > > considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at > the > > > amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of > Rasi. > > > > > > Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in > the > > > rasi > > > chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > > > condiered > > > as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why > is > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink./gmrs/_panel_invite.asp?a=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Dear Krishna, I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me try to answer with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. Reply below your questions in CAPS. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > important. > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > strength of a planet? ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF EVENT USING ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS DETERMINANT OF PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I PERSONALLY GET THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING ASHTAKAVARGA BUT USE THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY IF A PLANET IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR WHAT WE CALL ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN SIGNIFICATOR. SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY SAMDHARMI. JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG IN ARIES THEN IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN GEMINI IN NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF JUPITER IN RASI IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA BEING FAR AWAY, THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY HAS ENOUGH POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE TIMING OF EVENT. SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL AND THAT U CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > aspects in a Rasi chart? ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE TO BE SEEN IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING IN 1:7 THEN THEY HAVE ENIMITY AND THEY CEASE TO ACT AS NATURAL SAMDHARMIS. SO HERE ASPECT OF 1:7 IS TAKEN AS ENMITY. ALSO ASPECTS WHEN SEEN IN NAVAMSA IS ON HOUSE ONLY. LET ME TRY TO NARRATE THIS WITH AN EXAMPLE. TAKE CANCER LAGNA AND SATURN IN 2ND HOUSE. SO IN RASI IF THIS IS THE COMBINATION THEN THERE WILL BE FULL DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE OR SAY MARRIAGE. AS SATURN WILL BE IN 2ND WILL ASPECT 11TH AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE. NOW TAKE THE SAME CASE FOR IF CANCER NAVAMSA WAS RISING AND SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE THEN IN THAT CASE, SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE, ASPECTS 11TH HOUSE AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE BUT HERE THERE CAN'T BE DELAY AS SATURN IS NOT ASPECTING ALL 3 HOUSES. IT OWNS 7TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA BUT THAT CAN'T BE TAKEN AS IT MUST ASPECT 3 HOUSES. SO LORD OF HOUSE OF NAVAMSA CAN'T BE TAKEN, BUT THAT IS TO BE TAKEN FROM RASI. SO SAY IF SATURN WERE TO ASPECT 2ND LORD, 11TH LORD AND 7TH LORD OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN THERE WOULD BE FULL DELAY. I THINK THIS IS VERY KEY PART AND THIS IS SEEN AND STUDIED IN MANY CHARTS AND CAN BE EASILY VERIFIED. SO ONLY WAY SATURN CAN CAUSE DELAY IS IF SATURN WERE IN 5TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA ONLY. AS IT WOULD THEN ASPECT 2ND 11TH AND 7TH HOUSE. ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT ASPECTS, THE POWER IF U ARE FINING IN NAVAMSA, IS BASED THEN ONLY BASIC POWER MEANS WE WILL NOT CONSIDER 4:10 OR ASPECTS POWER TRANSFER IN NAVAMSA THAT IS ONLY DONE IN RASI BUT NOT IN NAVAMSA. SO WE DO NOT TAKE ASPECTS FOR POWER IN NAVAMSA BUT ONLY THE BASIC STRENGTH. SO ASPECTS ARE TO BE TAKEN IN NAVAMSA BUT IN KAS WE DO SEPARATE OR SAY DISTINGUISH FOR WHAT PURPOSE. NAVAMSA AS IN INDIVIDUAL CHART IF STUDIED AND THE POWER FOR ALL 12 HOUSES AND OF 7TH PLANETS IN NAVAMSA - MEANS STUDYING NAVAMSA AS A D-CHART THEN IN THAT CASE WE TAKE ONLY BASIC STRENGTH FROM SAV OF NAVAMSA ONLY. > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? ASH : YOGAS, OR SAY SARVASHTAKAVARGA IS CASTED IN ALL D CHARTS SO IT MEANS THAT PLANETS RELATION W.R.T EACH OTHER OR YOGAS ARE CONSIDERED AND THAT POWER I.E. WHEN WE FIND THE BASIC STRENGTH THEN THAT GIVES THE POWER OF 7 PLANETS IN 12 HOUSES IN NAVAMSA ONLY, SO HERE IT NAVAMSA IS A D-CHART AND LIKE ALL D-CHART WHEN FINDING POWER U ONLY CHECK THE BASIC STRENGTH AND NO ASPECTS OR 4:10 ARE CONSIDERED FOR D-CHART AND NAVAMSA AS WELL WHICH IS ALSO A D-CHART. > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > halves representing the native. ASH : WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U CAN'T FIND THE SAMDHARMI'S IN A WAY, AND IT WOULD ALSO BECOME INCOMPLETE TO FIND THE TIMING OF EVENT AS U ALSO CHECK THE ASPECTS OF THE LORDS OF RASI IN NAVAMSA AS WELL. SAY JUPITER IS ASPECTING 2ND HOUSE IN RASI AND THE LORD OF 7TH HOUSE OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN ALSO IT CAN GIVE DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE MATTERS. SO WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U WILL ONLY HAVE TO DO ALL THIS MATH BASED ON DEGREE'S OF RASI, BUT NAVAMSA GIVES US A GOOD CHART TO SEE ALL THIS CLEARLY AS A CHART AS WELL. > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > charts! ASH : YES, I TRIED TO GIVE THE REASONS AS PER MY UNDERSTANDING OF KAS. NAVAMSA IS A VARGA, BUT AN IMPORTANT VARGA AS WITHOUT THAT TIMING OF EVENTS, SAMDHARMIS, BLESSINGS ETC CAN BE FOUND. I DONT KNOW IF I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS BUT I HAVE TRIED. THANKS. > > Regards, > Krishna > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > > > > I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > > your > > contributions. > > > > I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > > inputs > > you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > > to > > share my opinion (through my own experience). > > > > Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > > most > > probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > > approaches > > working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > > at the > > same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > > chart (of > > course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > > any of > > the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > > chart > > is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > > doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > > occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > > in > > the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > > confirming > > the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > > chart, > > how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > > some > > yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > > navamsa > > chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > > considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > > amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > > > > Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > > rasi > > chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > > condiered > > as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > > this > > considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > > the > > planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > > positioning > > within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > > means, > > within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > > point for > > the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > > strength > > considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > > the > > planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > > position > > of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > > rasi. > > In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > > Rasi and > > Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > > them > > that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > > same > > level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > > Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > > be > > viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > > by the > > rasi chart). > > > > Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > > chart > > alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > > observed > > this phenomenon in several charts. > > > > My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > > 12th > > house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > > chart > > with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > > lagna). I am > > a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > > and > > Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > > brought > > to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > > my life > > events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > > in > > the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > > here; I am > > just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > > chart, > > and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > > > > On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > > chart > > that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > > the 4th > > house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > > education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > > education). > > > > I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > > that > > both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > > isolation of > > the other. > > > > Thanks for all your contribution. > > > > Best regards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > > First > > there is > > > no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > > is > > perhaps > > > being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > > astrological > > > translations many a times words are to be understood in the > > context that > > > they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > > Swamsha > > in > > > alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > > occupation of > > > Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > > adhyaaya. > > > This does not mean he is speaking about two different > > parameters. > > I > > > think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > > interpretation > > > of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > > if he > > is > > > watching this discussion. > > > > > > If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > > indicated on > > > the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > > promised by > > > the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > > rasi > > chart, > > > through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > > hope > > this > > > opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > > discussion on > > the > > > list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > > worth. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > > > > > > > > Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > > one > > > > meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > > > > Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha. > > > > > > > > Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > > shlokas > > which > > > > shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > > point. > > > > > > > > I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > > > > answer and > > > > explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games. > http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Dear Ash, Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I definitely see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can read so many things from it, specially the strength and relationships of planets. Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because the 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying that we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very important. My question is 'how come we get these vital a,b,c... only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and debilitated in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak (though exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is exalted in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another varga chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within the context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at Rasi level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being varga charts? There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi into 9 equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes to my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra pada. Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas that they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not true for other varga charts. Is this giving the special significance to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives the significance to Navamsha chart? Hope you got my point. Regards, Krishna --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me try to > answer > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > <krishna_1998 wrote: > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > the > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > chart is > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > so > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > what > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > important. > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > > strength of a planet? > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > EVENT USING > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS DETERMINANT > OF > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > PERSONALLY GET > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING ASHTAKAVARGA > BUT USE > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY IF > A PLANET > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR WHAT > WE CALL > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > SIGNIFICATOR. > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > SAMDHARMI. > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG IN > ARIES THEN > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN GEMINI > IN > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF JUPITER > IN RASI > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA BEING > FAR AWAY, > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY HAS > ENOUGH > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE TIMING > OF EVENT. > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL AND > THAT U > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > like > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE TO > BE SEEN > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING IN > 1:7 THEN > THEY HAVE ENIMITY AND THEY CEASE TO ACT AS NATURAL SAMDHARMIS. > SO > HERE ASPECT OF 1:7 IS TAKEN AS ENMITY. > > ALSO ASPECTS WHEN SEEN IN NAVAMSA IS ON HOUSE ONLY. LET ME > TRY TO > NARRATE THIS WITH AN EXAMPLE. > > TAKE CANCER LAGNA AND SATURN IN 2ND HOUSE. SO IN RASI IF THIS > IS THE > COMBINATION THEN THERE WILL BE FULL DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE OR SAY > MARRIAGE. AS SATURN WILL BE IN 2ND WILL ASPECT 11TH AND OWNS > 7TH HOUSE. > > NOW TAKE THE SAME CASE FOR IF CANCER NAVAMSA WAS RISING AND SA > IS IN > 2ND HOUSE THEN IN THAT CASE, SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE, ASPECTS 11TH > HOUSE > AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE BUT HERE THERE CAN'T BE DELAY AS SATURN IS > NOT > ASPECTING ALL 3 HOUSES. IT OWNS 7TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA BUT THAT > CAN'T > BE TAKEN AS IT MUST ASPECT 3 HOUSES. > > SO LORD OF HOUSE OF NAVAMSA CAN'T BE TAKEN, BUT THAT IS TO BE > TAKEN > FROM RASI. > > SO SAY IF SATURN WERE TO ASPECT 2ND LORD, 11TH LORD AND 7TH > LORD OF > RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN THERE WOULD BE FULL DELAY. > > I THINK THIS IS VERY KEY PART AND THIS IS SEEN AND STUDIED IN > MANY > CHARTS AND CAN BE EASILY VERIFIED. > > SO ONLY WAY SATURN CAN CAUSE DELAY IS IF SATURN WERE IN 5TH > HOUSE IN > NAVAMSA ONLY. AS IT WOULD THEN ASPECT 2ND 11TH AND 7TH HOUSE. > > ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT ASPECTS, THE POWER IF U ARE > FINING IN > NAVAMSA, IS BASED THEN ONLY BASIC POWER MEANS WE WILL NOT > CONSIDER > 4:10 OR ASPECTS POWER TRANSFER IN NAVAMSA THAT IS ONLY DONE IN > RASI > BUT NOT IN NAVAMSA. > > SO WE DO NOT TAKE ASPECTS FOR POWER IN NAVAMSA BUT ONLY THE > BASIC > STRENGTH. > > SO ASPECTS ARE TO BE TAKEN IN NAVAMSA BUT IN KAS WE DO > SEPARATE OR SAY > DISTINGUISH FOR WHAT PURPOSE. > > NAVAMSA AS IN INDIVIDUAL CHART IF STUDIED AND THE POWER FOR > ALL 12 > HOUSES AND OF 7TH PLANETS IN NAVAMSA - MEANS STUDYING NAVAMSA > AS A > D-CHART THEN IN THAT CASE WE TAKE ONLY BASIC STRENGTH FROM SAV > OF > NAVAMSA ONLY. > > > > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > as if > > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > ASH : YOGAS, OR SAY SARVASHTAKAVARGA IS CASTED IN ALL D CHARTS > SO IT > MEANS THAT PLANETS RELATION W.R.T EACH OTHER OR YOGAS ARE > CONSIDERED > AND THAT POWER I.E. WHEN WE FIND THE BASIC STRENGTH THEN THAT > GIVES > THE POWER OF 7 PLANETS IN 12 HOUSES IN NAVAMSA ONLY, SO HERE > IT > NAVAMSA IS A D-CHART AND LIKE ALL D-CHART WHEN FINDING POWER U > ONLY > CHECK THE BASIC STRENGTH AND NO ASPECTS OR 4:10 ARE CONSIDERED > FOR > D-CHART AND NAVAMSA AS WELL WHICH IS ALSO A D-CHART. > > > > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > it > > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > equal > > halves representing the native. > > ASH : WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U CAN'T FIND THE SAMDHARMI'S IN A WAY, > AND IT > WOULD ALSO BECOME INCOMPLETE TO FIND THE TIMING OF EVENT AS U > ALSO > CHECK THE ASPECTS OF THE LORDS OF RASI IN NAVAMSA AS WELL. > > SAY JUPITER IS ASPECTING 2ND HOUSE IN RASI AND THE LORD OF 7TH > HOUSE > OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN ALSO IT CAN GIVE DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE > MATTERS. > > SO WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U WILL ONLY HAVE TO DO ALL THIS MATH BASED > ON > DEGREE'S OF RASI, BUT NAVAMSA GIVES US A GOOD CHART TO SEE ALL > THIS > CLEARLY AS A CHART AS WELL. > > > > > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What > I > > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > What > > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > varga > > charts! > > ASH : YES, I TRIED TO GIVE THE REASONS AS PER MY UNDERSTANDING > OF KAS. > NAVAMSA IS A VARGA, BUT AN IMPORTANT VARGA AS WITHOUT THAT > TIMING OF > EVENTS, SAMDHARMIS, BLESSINGS ETC CAN BE FOUND. > > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. http://farechase./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Dear Sri Krishnamurthy, My opinion on this question is like this: The 9th division is defined as Dharmaamsa and the Navamsa chart represents the fruits of the dharma held by the individual in the previous birth. One's dharma is defined as that particular course of action one should take (or actually takes) or how one should react (or actually reacts) to circustances. If one follwed his/her dharma appropriately in the previous birth, it would reflect in the navamsa of the present birth. Scripturally, there are different dharmas defined for different categories of people. For example, the dharma of a Brahmin is different from that of a Kshathriya, or the dharma of a Man is different from that of a woman; or the dharma of a Grihastha is different from that of a Sanyasi etc. Manusmrithi is the Code of Conduct/Ethics that is Praamana for people. Once I had an opportunity to read a few of these dharmas from Manusmrithi and I realized how far we deviate practically from this code of conduct. Of course, I am talking ideal situation which is almost impossible for any of us in the modern Scientific era of today. Let me not deviate from the point. Therefore, one's past reaction (or action for that matter) to the events is represented as the Dharma chart of this birth. Even though the Rasi chart grants possibilities, the Dharma chart (or navamsa chart) may disqualify one in the particular situation, thus posing limitations. This is the very fundamental reason that many times we strongly feel the inner urge to do something, but cannot do for whatever limitations that arise in this lifetime. Just my thoughts. I am not intending here to hurt others' opinions, nor I am interested for the same. Others may possess their own opinions at their freedom. There may also other strong reasons (which we are not aware of) for the Navamsa chart to be most important of all varga charts; one such reason is for sure, the coincidence of navamsas with Nakshathra padas. Best regards, Satya Sai Kolachina , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I definitely > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can read > so many things from it, specially the strength and relationships > of planets. > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because the > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying that > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital a,b,c... > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and debilitated > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak (though > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is exalted > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another varga > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within the > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at Rasi > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > varga charts? > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi into 9 > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes to > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra pada. > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas that > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not true > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special significance > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives the > significance to Navamsha chart? > > Hope you got my point. > > Regards, > Krishna > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me try to > > answer > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > > the > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > chart is > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > > so > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > what > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > important. > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > > > strength of a planet? > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > EVENT USING > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS DETERMINANT > > OF > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > PERSONALLY GET > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING ASHTAKAVARGA > > BUT USE > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY IF > > A PLANET > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR WHAT > > WE CALL > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG IN > > ARIES THEN > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN GEMINI > > IN > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF JUPITER > > IN RASI > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA BEING > > FAR AWAY, > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY HAS > > ENOUGH > > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE TIMING > > OF EVENT. > > > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL AND > > THAT U > > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > like > > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE TO > > BE SEEN > > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING IN > > 1:7 THEN > > THEY HAVE ENIMITY AND THEY CEASE TO ACT AS NATURAL SAMDHARMIS. > > SO > > HERE ASPECT OF 1:7 IS TAKEN AS ENMITY. > > > > ALSO ASPECTS WHEN SEEN IN NAVAMSA IS ON HOUSE ONLY. LET ME > > TRY TO > > NARRATE THIS WITH AN EXAMPLE. > > > > TAKE CANCER LAGNA AND SATURN IN 2ND HOUSE. SO IN RASI IF THIS > > IS THE > > COMBINATION THEN THERE WILL BE FULL DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE OR SAY > > MARRIAGE. AS SATURN WILL BE IN 2ND WILL ASPECT 11TH AND OWNS > > 7TH HOUSE. > > > > NOW TAKE THE SAME CASE FOR IF CANCER NAVAMSA WAS RISING AND SA > > IS IN > > 2ND HOUSE THEN IN THAT CASE, SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE, ASPECTS 11TH > > HOUSE > > AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE BUT HERE THERE CAN'T BE DELAY AS SATURN IS > > NOT > > ASPECTING ALL 3 HOUSES. IT OWNS 7TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA BUT THAT > > CAN'T > > BE TAKEN AS IT MUST ASPECT 3 HOUSES. > > > > SO LORD OF HOUSE OF NAVAMSA CAN'T BE TAKEN, BUT THAT IS TO BE > > TAKEN > > FROM RASI. > > > > SO SAY IF SATURN WERE TO ASPECT 2ND LORD, 11TH LORD AND 7TH > > LORD OF > > RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN THERE WOULD BE FULL DELAY. > > > > I THINK THIS IS VERY KEY PART AND THIS IS SEEN AND STUDIED IN > > MANY > > CHARTS AND CAN BE EASILY VERIFIED. > > > > SO ONLY WAY SATURN CAN CAUSE DELAY IS IF SATURN WERE IN 5TH > > HOUSE IN > > NAVAMSA ONLY. AS IT WOULD THEN ASPECT 2ND 11TH AND 7TH HOUSE. > > > > ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT ASPECTS, THE POWER IF U ARE > > FINING IN > > NAVAMSA, IS BASED THEN ONLY BASIC POWER MEANS WE WILL NOT > > CONSIDER > > 4:10 OR ASPECTS POWER TRANSFER IN NAVAMSA THAT IS ONLY DONE IN > > RASI > > BUT NOT IN NAVAMSA. > > > > SO WE DO NOT TAKE ASPECTS FOR POWER IN NAVAMSA BUT ONLY THE > > BASIC > > STRENGTH. > > > > SO ASPECTS ARE TO BE TAKEN IN NAVAMSA BUT IN KAS WE DO > > SEPARATE OR SAY > > DISTINGUISH FOR WHAT PURPOSE. > > > > NAVAMSA AS IN INDIVIDUAL CHART IF STUDIED AND THE POWER FOR > > ALL 12 > > HOUSES AND OF 7TH PLANETS IN NAVAMSA - MEANS STUDYING NAVAMSA > > AS A > > D-CHART THEN IN THAT CASE WE TAKE ONLY BASIC STRENGTH FROM SAV > > OF > > NAVAMSA ONLY. > > > > > > > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > > as if > > > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > > > ASH : YOGAS, OR SAY SARVASHTAKAVARGA IS CASTED IN ALL D CHARTS > > SO IT > > MEANS THAT PLANETS RELATION W.R.T EACH OTHER OR YOGAS ARE > > CONSIDERED > > AND THAT POWER I.E. WHEN WE FIND THE BASIC STRENGTH THEN THAT > > GIVES > > THE POWER OF 7 PLANETS IN 12 HOUSES IN NAVAMSA ONLY, SO HERE > > IT > > NAVAMSA IS A D-CHART AND LIKE ALL D-CHART WHEN FINDING POWER U > > ONLY > > CHECK THE BASIC STRENGTH AND NO ASPECTS OR 4:10 ARE CONSIDERED > > FOR > > D-CHART AND NAVAMSA AS WELL WHICH IS ALSO A D-CHART. > > > > > > > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > > it > > > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > > equal > > > halves representing the native. > > > > ASH : WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U CAN'T FIND THE SAMDHARMI'S IN A WAY, > > AND IT > > WOULD ALSO BECOME INCOMPLETE TO FIND THE TIMING OF EVENT AS U > > ALSO > > CHECK THE ASPECTS OF THE LORDS OF RASI IN NAVAMSA AS WELL. > > > > SAY JUPITER IS ASPECTING 2ND HOUSE IN RASI AND THE LORD OF 7TH > > HOUSE > > OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN ALSO IT CAN GIVE DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE > > MATTERS. > > > > SO WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U WILL ONLY HAVE TO DO ALL THIS MATH BASED > > ON > > DEGREE'S OF RASI, BUT NAVAMSA GIVES US A GOOD CHART TO SEE ALL > > THIS > > CLEARLY AS A CHART AS WELL. > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What > > I > > > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > > What > > > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > > varga > > > charts! > > > > ASH : YES, I TRIED TO GIVE THE REASONS AS PER MY UNDERSTANDING > > OF KAS. > > NAVAMSA IS A VARGA, BUT AN IMPORTANT VARGA AS WITHOUT THAT > > TIMING OF > > EVENTS, SAMDHARMIS, BLESSINGS ETC CAN BE FOUND. > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. > http://farechase./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Dear Krishna ji, Why Navamsa is so important? The answer is straight forward - because it is 1/9 th of a sign and 1/4 th of a Stellar division at the same time; i.e. It is a division of both Rasi chakra and Nakhatra Chakara and thus gets double importance. Further it is based on the 108 Navamsa divisions that the initial division of zodiac into signs and stellar divisions done. It is the Yugadi planetary position in which the Vernal Equinox at the middle of Rohini star (Braha;Prajapati; 46 deg 40 min) and Autmn equinox at Moola star (240 deg) that caused the division of zodiac in to 12 signs and taking Moola as the fiducial star and Jyeshta as the first stellar division. There is 108 Navamsa divisions. As Subhash Kak ji states, 108 times Moon's diameter is the distance from Moon to earth; 108 times earth's diameter is the distance from Earth to Sun; and diameter of Sun is 108 times earth's diameter. Can't you see why the 108 divisions of Navamsa is important, and forms the base of the whole astrological system? Love, Sreenadh , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I definitely > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can read > so many things from it, specially the strength and relationships > of planets. > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because the > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying that > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital a,b,c... > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and debilitated > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak (though > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is exalted > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another varga > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within the > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at Rasi > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > varga charts? > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi into 9 > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes to > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra pada. > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas that > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not true > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special significance > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives the > significance to Navamsha chart? > > Hope you got my point. > > Regards, > Krishna > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me try to > > answer > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > > the > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > chart is > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > > so > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > what > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > important. > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > > > strength of a planet? > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > EVENT USING > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS DETERMINANT > > OF > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > PERSONALLY GET > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING ASHTAKAVARGA > > BUT USE > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY IF > > A PLANET > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR WHAT > > WE CALL > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG IN > > ARIES THEN > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN GEMINI > > IN > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF JUPITER > > IN RASI > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA BEING > > FAR AWAY, > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY HAS > > ENOUGH > > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE TIMING > > OF EVENT. > > > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL AND > > THAT U > > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > like > > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE TO > > BE SEEN > > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING IN > > 1:7 THEN > > THEY HAVE ENIMITY AND THEY CEASE TO ACT AS NATURAL SAMDHARMIS. > > SO > > HERE ASPECT OF 1:7 IS TAKEN AS ENMITY. > > > > ALSO ASPECTS WHEN SEEN IN NAVAMSA IS ON HOUSE ONLY. LET ME > > TRY TO > > NARRATE THIS WITH AN EXAMPLE. > > > > TAKE CANCER LAGNA AND SATURN IN 2ND HOUSE. SO IN RASI IF THIS > > IS THE > > COMBINATION THEN THERE WILL BE FULL DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE OR SAY > > MARRIAGE. AS SATURN WILL BE IN 2ND WILL ASPECT 11TH AND OWNS > > 7TH HOUSE. > > > > NOW TAKE THE SAME CASE FOR IF CANCER NAVAMSA WAS RISING AND SA > > IS IN > > 2ND HOUSE THEN IN THAT CASE, SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE, ASPECTS 11TH > > HOUSE > > AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE BUT HERE THERE CAN'T BE DELAY AS SATURN IS > > NOT > > ASPECTING ALL 3 HOUSES. IT OWNS 7TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA BUT THAT > > CAN'T > > BE TAKEN AS IT MUST ASPECT 3 HOUSES. > > > > SO LORD OF HOUSE OF NAVAMSA CAN'T BE TAKEN, BUT THAT IS TO BE > > TAKEN > > FROM RASI. > > > > SO SAY IF SATURN WERE TO ASPECT 2ND LORD, 11TH LORD AND 7TH > > LORD OF > > RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN THERE WOULD BE FULL DELAY. > > > > I THINK THIS IS VERY KEY PART AND THIS IS SEEN AND STUDIED IN > > MANY > > CHARTS AND CAN BE EASILY VERIFIED. > > > > SO ONLY WAY SATURN CAN CAUSE DELAY IS IF SATURN WERE IN 5TH > > HOUSE IN > > NAVAMSA ONLY. AS IT WOULD THEN ASPECT 2ND 11TH AND 7TH HOUSE. > > > > ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT ASPECTS, THE POWER IF U ARE > > FINING IN > > NAVAMSA, IS BASED THEN ONLY BASIC POWER MEANS WE WILL NOT > > CONSIDER > > 4:10 OR ASPECTS POWER TRANSFER IN NAVAMSA THAT IS ONLY DONE IN > > RASI > > BUT NOT IN NAVAMSA. > > > > SO WE DO NOT TAKE ASPECTS FOR POWER IN NAVAMSA BUT ONLY THE > > BASIC > > STRENGTH. > > > > SO ASPECTS ARE TO BE TAKEN IN NAVAMSA BUT IN KAS WE DO > > SEPARATE OR SAY > > DISTINGUISH FOR WHAT PURPOSE. > > > > NAVAMSA AS IN INDIVIDUAL CHART IF STUDIED AND THE POWER FOR > > ALL 12 > > HOUSES AND OF 7TH PLANETS IN NAVAMSA - MEANS STUDYING NAVAMSA > > AS A > > D-CHART THEN IN THAT CASE WE TAKE ONLY BASIC STRENGTH FROM SAV > > OF > > NAVAMSA ONLY. > > > > > > > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > > as if > > > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > > > ASH : YOGAS, OR SAY SARVASHTAKAVARGA IS CASTED IN ALL D CHARTS > > SO IT > > MEANS THAT PLANETS RELATION W.R.T EACH OTHER OR YOGAS ARE > > CONSIDERED > > AND THAT POWER I.E. WHEN WE FIND THE BASIC STRENGTH THEN THAT > > GIVES > > THE POWER OF 7 PLANETS IN 12 HOUSES IN NAVAMSA ONLY, SO HERE > > IT > > NAVAMSA IS A D-CHART AND LIKE ALL D-CHART WHEN FINDING POWER U > > ONLY > > CHECK THE BASIC STRENGTH AND NO ASPECTS OR 4:10 ARE CONSIDERED > > FOR > > D-CHART AND NAVAMSA AS WELL WHICH IS ALSO A D-CHART. > > > > > > > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > > it > > > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > > equal > > > halves representing the native. > > > > ASH : WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U CAN'T FIND THE SAMDHARMI'S IN A WAY, > > AND IT > > WOULD ALSO BECOME INCOMPLETE TO FIND THE TIMING OF EVENT AS U > > ALSO > > CHECK THE ASPECTS OF THE LORDS OF RASI IN NAVAMSA AS WELL. > > > > SAY JUPITER IS ASPECTING 2ND HOUSE IN RASI AND THE LORD OF 7TH > > HOUSE > > OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN ALSO IT CAN GIVE DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE > > MATTERS. > > > > SO WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U WILL ONLY HAVE TO DO ALL THIS MATH BASED > > ON > > DEGREE'S OF RASI, BUT NAVAMSA GIVES US A GOOD CHART TO SEE ALL > > THIS > > CLEARLY AS A CHART AS WELL. > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What > > I > > > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > > What > > > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > > varga > > > charts! > > > > ASH : YES, I TRIED TO GIVE THE REASONS AS PER MY UNDERSTANDING > > OF KAS. > > NAVAMSA IS A VARGA, BUT AN IMPORTANT VARGA AS WITHOUT THAT > > TIMING OF > > EVENTS, SAMDHARMIS, BLESSINGS ETC CAN BE FOUND. > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. > http://farechase./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Dear Sreendh, Thanks for these data points. Ok, it appears that now we are one step closer to the answer. It would be interesting to know how all these 108s actually give the power to Navamsha chart. Regards, Krishna --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Krishna ji, > Why Navamsa is so important? > > The answer is straight forward - because it is 1/9 th of a > sign and > 1/4 th of a Stellar division at the same time; i.e. It is a > division > of both Rasi chakra and Nakhatra Chakara and thus gets double > importance. > Further it is based on the 108 Navamsa divisions that the > initial > division of zodiac into signs and stellar divisions done. It > is the > Yugadi planetary position in which the Vernal Equinox at the > middle of > Rohini star (Braha;Prajapati; 46 deg 40 min) and Autmn equinox > at > Moola star (240 deg) that caused the division of zodiac in to > 12 signs > and taking Moola as the fiducial star and Jyeshta as the first > stellar > division. > > There is 108 Navamsa divisions. As Subhash Kak ji states, 108 > times > Moon's diameter is the distance from Moon to earth; 108 times > earth's > diameter is the distance from Earth to Sun; and diameter of > Sun is 108 > times earth's diameter. > > Can't you see why the 108 divisions of Navamsa is important, > and > forms the base of the whole astrological system? > > Love, > Sreenadh > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > <krishna_1998 wrote: > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I > definitely > > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can > read > > so many things from it, specially the strength and > relationships > > of planets. > > > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because > the > > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying > that > > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital > a,b,c... > > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and > debilitated > > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak > (though > > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is > exalted > > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another > varga > > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within > the > > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at > Rasi > > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > > varga charts? > > > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi > into 9 > > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes > to > > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra > pada. > > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas > that > > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not > true > > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special > significance > > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives > the > > significance to Navamsha chart? > > > > Hope you got my point. > > > > Regards, > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > > > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me > try to > > > answer > > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > , Krishnamurthy > Seetharama > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance > of > > > the > > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > > chart is > > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my > experience > > > so > > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > > what > > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > > important. > > > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the > overall > > > > strength of a planet? > > > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > > EVENT USING > > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS > DETERMINANT > > > OF > > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > > PERSONALLY GET > > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING > ASHTAKAVARGA > > > BUT USE > > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY > IF > > > A PLANET > > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR > WHAT > > > WE CALL > > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG > IN > > > ARIES THEN > > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN > GEMINI > > > IN > > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF > JUPITER > > > IN RASI > > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA > BEING > > > FAR AWAY, > > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY > HAS > > > ENOUGH > > > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE > TIMING > > > OF EVENT. > > > > > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL > AND > > > THAT U > > > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > > > > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > > like > > > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE > TO > > > BE SEEN > > > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > > > > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING > IN > > > 1:7 THEN > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. 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Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Dear Krishna ji, Use Navamsa in your result derivations and you will see. Love, Sreenadh , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Sreendh, > > Thanks for these data points. Ok, it appears that now we are one > step closer to the answer. It would be interesting to know how > all these 108s actually give the power to Navamsha chart. > > Regards, > Krishna > > --- Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > Why Navamsa is so important? > > > > The answer is straight forward - because it is 1/9 th of a > > sign and > > 1/4 th of a Stellar division at the same time; i.e. It is a > > division > > of both Rasi chakra and Nakhatra Chakara and thus gets double > > importance. > > Further it is based on the 108 Navamsa divisions that the > > initial > > division of zodiac into signs and stellar divisions done. It > > is the > > Yugadi planetary position in which the Vernal Equinox at the > > middle of > > Rohini star (Braha;Prajapati; 46 deg 40 min) and Autmn equinox > > at > > Moola star (240 deg) that caused the division of zodiac in to > > 12 signs > > and taking Moola as the fiducial star and Jyeshta as the first > > stellar > > division. > > > > There is 108 Navamsa divisions. As Subhash Kak ji states, 108 > > times > > Moon's diameter is the distance from Moon to earth; 108 times > > earth's > > diameter is the distance from Earth to Sun; and diameter of > > Sun is 108 > > times earth's diameter. > > > > Can't you see why the 108 divisions of Navamsa is important, > > and > > forms the base of the whole astrological system? > > > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I > > definitely > > > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can > > read > > > so many things from it, specially the strength and > > relationships > > > of planets. > > > > > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because > > the > > > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying > > that > > > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > > > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital > > a,b,c... > > > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > > > > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > > > > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and > > debilitated > > > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak > > (though > > > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is > > exalted > > > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another > > varga > > > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > > > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within > > the > > > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at > > Rasi > > > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > > > varga charts? > > > > > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi > > into 9 > > > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes > > to > > > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra > > pada. > > > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas > > that > > > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not > > true > > > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special > > significance > > > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives > > the > > > significance to Navamsha chart? > > > > > > Hope you got my point. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73@> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me > > try to > > > > answer > > > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > > > , Krishnamurthy > > Seetharama > > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance > > of > > > > the > > > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > > > chart is > > > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my > > experience > > > > so > > > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > > > what > > > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > > > important. > > > > > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the > > overall > > > > > strength of a planet? > > > > > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > > > EVENT USING > > > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS > > DETERMINANT > > > > OF > > > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > > > PERSONALLY GET > > > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING > > ASHTAKAVARGA > > > > BUT USE > > > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY > > IF > > > > A PLANET > > > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR > > WHAT > > > > WE CALL > > > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG > > IN > > > > ARIES THEN > > > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN > > GEMINI > > > > IN > > > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF > > JUPITER > > > > IN RASI > > > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA > > BEING > > > > FAR AWAY, > > > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY > > HAS > > > > ENOUGH > > > > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE > > TIMING > > > > OF EVENT. > > > > > > > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL > > AND > > > > THAT U > > > > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > > > like > > > > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > > > > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE > > TO > > > > BE SEEN > > > > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > > > > > > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING > > IN > > > > 1:7 THEN > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? 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Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Krishna, Sorry for the late response. That maybe due to mathematics on how navamsa is casted i.e 9 equal portions of Rasi etc. Actually you can get that using degree's in Rasi itself for example take your example u said if Sun is in Aries and from 20 to 23deg20 then u can take that sun as moderate or whatever strength that you select based on the method of finding power based on sign placement. I find the power of planet using ashtakavarga so sign placement does not matter or let me put it this way that sign placement is used for assessing the quality of result. So I think from your example as u have taken sun between 20 to 23deg20 in Aries as example, if I am using Ashtakavarga then I would need to know the bindus in each of the 12 house, and based on that if say Sun has less than 4 bindus then I would consider that as debilated and if more than 4 as exalted or powerful irrespective of the sign its placed in. Even if Sun were to be from 0 to 3deg20 in Libra but still if it had say more than 4 bindus then i would consider Sun to be powerful in the house its placed in and its aspect as malefic with equal intensity. Yes, at the same time I would consider the quality to be multiplied with a multiplication factor of 0.5 as its in its neecha sign but that would not affect the timing of event. So I think, If I go with my example to find power of planet and u are going by sign placement to find power then we are comparing applies with oranges and we wont get proper understanding of what each other is trying to say. For me to find a strength using ashtakavg then I would need the full chart so that way I can get the power of planets using ashtakavarg. However, the key points I wanted to highlight I have stated. Cheers !!! Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Ash, > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I definitely > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can read > so many things from it, specially the strength and relationships > of planets. > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because the > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying that > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital a,b,c... > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and debilitated > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak (though > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is exalted > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another varga > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within the > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at Rasi > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > varga charts? > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi into 9 > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes to > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra pada. > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas that > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not true > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special significance > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives the > significance to Navamsha chart? > > Hope you got my point. > > Regards, > Krishna > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me try to > > answer > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > Cheers !!! > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of > > the > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > chart is > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience > > so > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > what > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > important. > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > > > strength of a planet? > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > EVENT USING > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS DETERMINANT > > OF > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > PERSONALLY GET > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING ASHTAKAVARGA > > BUT USE > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY IF > > A PLANET > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR WHAT > > WE CALL > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG IN > > ARIES THEN > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN GEMINI > > IN > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF JUPITER > > IN RASI > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA BEING > > FAR AWAY, > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY HAS > > ENOUGH > > POWER THEN IT CAN STEP IN FOR JUPITER AND FURNISH THE TIMING > > OF EVENT. > > > > SO THAT WAY THERE IS A LINK FORMED AND THAT IS VERY SPCIAL AND > > THAT U > > CAN GET ONLY FROM NAVAMSA AND NO OTHER D CHART. > > > > > > > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart > > like > > > aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > ASH : HERE FROM WHAT I HAVE UNDERSTOOD IS THAT ASPECTS ARE TO > > BE SEEN > > IN NAVAMSA BUT THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE AS WELL. > > > > SAY SA AND VE ARE NATURAL SAMDHARMIS BUT IF THEY ARE GOING IN > > 1:7 THEN > > THEY HAVE ENIMITY AND THEY CEASE TO ACT AS NATURAL SAMDHARMIS. > > SO > > HERE ASPECT OF 1:7 IS TAKEN AS ENMITY. > > > > ALSO ASPECTS WHEN SEEN IN NAVAMSA IS ON HOUSE ONLY. LET ME > > TRY TO > > NARRATE THIS WITH AN EXAMPLE. > > > > TAKE CANCER LAGNA AND SATURN IN 2ND HOUSE. SO IN RASI IF THIS > > IS THE > > COMBINATION THEN THERE WILL BE FULL DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE OR SAY > > MARRIAGE. AS SATURN WILL BE IN 2ND WILL ASPECT 11TH AND OWNS > > 7TH HOUSE. > > > > NOW TAKE THE SAME CASE FOR IF CANCER NAVAMSA WAS RISING AND SA > > IS IN > > 2ND HOUSE THEN IN THAT CASE, SA IS IN 2ND HOUSE, ASPECTS 11TH > > HOUSE > > AND OWNS 7TH HOUSE BUT HERE THERE CAN'T BE DELAY AS SATURN IS > > NOT > > ASPECTING ALL 3 HOUSES. IT OWNS 7TH HOUSE IN NAVAMSA BUT THAT > > CAN'T > > BE TAKEN AS IT MUST ASPECT 3 HOUSES. > > > > SO LORD OF HOUSE OF NAVAMSA CAN'T BE TAKEN, BUT THAT IS TO BE > > TAKEN > > FROM RASI. > > > > SO SAY IF SATURN WERE TO ASPECT 2ND LORD, 11TH LORD AND 7TH > > LORD OF > > RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN THERE WOULD BE FULL DELAY. > > > > I THINK THIS IS VERY KEY PART AND THIS IS SEEN AND STUDIED IN > > MANY > > CHARTS AND CAN BE EASILY VERIFIED. > > > > SO ONLY WAY SATURN CAN CAUSE DELAY IS IF SATURN WERE IN 5TH > > HOUSE IN > > NAVAMSA ONLY. AS IT WOULD THEN ASPECT 2ND 11TH AND 7TH HOUSE. > > > > ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT ASPECTS, THE POWER IF U ARE > > FINING IN > > NAVAMSA, IS BASED THEN ONLY BASIC POWER MEANS WE WILL NOT > > CONSIDER > > 4:10 OR ASPECTS POWER TRANSFER IN NAVAMSA THAT IS ONLY DONE IN > > RASI > > BUT NOT IN NAVAMSA. > > > > SO WE DO NOT TAKE ASPECTS FOR POWER IN NAVAMSA BUT ONLY THE > > BASIC > > STRENGTH. > > > > SO ASPECTS ARE TO BE TAKEN IN NAVAMSA BUT IN KAS WE DO > > SEPARATE OR SAY > > DISTINGUISH FOR WHAT PURPOSE. > > > > NAVAMSA AS IN INDIVIDUAL CHART IF STUDIED AND THE POWER FOR > > ALL 12 > > HOUSES AND OF 7TH PLANETS IN NAVAMSA - MEANS STUDYING NAVAMSA > > AS A > > D-CHART THEN IN THAT CASE WE TAKE ONLY BASIC STRENGTH FROM SAV > > OF > > NAVAMSA ONLY. > > > > > > > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated > > as if > > > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > > > ASH : YOGAS, OR SAY SARVASHTAKAVARGA IS CASTED IN ALL D CHARTS > > SO IT > > MEANS THAT PLANETS RELATION W.R.T EACH OTHER OR YOGAS ARE > > CONSIDERED > > AND THAT POWER I.E. WHEN WE FIND THE BASIC STRENGTH THEN THAT > > GIVES > > THE POWER OF 7 PLANETS IN 12 HOUSES IN NAVAMSA ONLY, SO HERE > > IT > > NAVAMSA IS A D-CHART AND LIKE ALL D-CHART WHEN FINDING POWER U > > ONLY > > CHECK THE BASIC STRENGTH AND NO ASPECTS OR 4:10 ARE CONSIDERED > > FOR > > D-CHART AND NAVAMSA AS WELL WHICH IS ALSO A D-CHART. > > > > > > > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > > it > > > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > > equal > > > halves representing the native. > > > > ASH : WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U CAN'T FIND THE SAMDHARMI'S IN A WAY, > > AND IT > > WOULD ALSO BECOME INCOMPLETE TO FIND THE TIMING OF EVENT AS U > > ALSO > > CHECK THE ASPECTS OF THE LORDS OF RASI IN NAVAMSA AS WELL. > > > > SAY JUPITER IS ASPECTING 2ND HOUSE IN RASI AND THE LORD OF 7TH > > HOUSE > > OF RASI IN NAVAMSA THEN ALSO IT CAN GIVE DELAY FOR 7TH HOUSE > > MATTERS. > > > > SO WITHOUT NAVAMSA, U WILL ONLY HAVE TO DO ALL THIS MATH BASED > > ON > > DEGREE'S OF RASI, BUT NAVAMSA GIVES US A GOOD CHART TO SEE ALL > > THIS > > CLEARLY AS A CHART AS WELL. > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What > > I > > > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > > What > > > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many > > varga > > > charts! > > > > ASH : YES, I TRIED TO GIVE THE REASONS AS PER MY UNDERSTANDING > > OF KAS. > > NAVAMSA IS A VARGA, BUT AN IMPORTANT VARGA AS WITHOUT THAT > > TIMING OF > > EVENTS, SAMDHARMIS, BLESSINGS ETC CAN BE FOUND. > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with FareChase. > http://farechase./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks again Ash. But, I know very little about Ashtakavarga to further discuss with you in that line of argument. Hope, I will learn it one day. Regards, Krishna --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > Dear Krishna, > > Sorry for the late response. > > That maybe due to mathematics on how navamsa is casted i.e 9 > equal > portions of Rasi etc. > > Actually you can get that using degree's in Rasi itself for > example > take your example u said if Sun is in Aries and from 20 to > 23deg20 > then u can take that sun as moderate or whatever strength that > you > select based on the method of finding power based on sign > placement. > > I find the power of planet using ashtakavarga so sign > placement does > not matter or let me put it this way that sign placement is > used for > assessing the quality of result. > > So I think from your example as u have taken sun between 20 to > 23deg20 > in Aries as example, if I am using Ashtakavarga then I would > need to > know the bindus in each of the 12 house, and based on that if > say Sun > has less than 4 bindus then I would consider that as debilated > and if > more than 4 as exalted or powerful irrespective of the sign > its placed > in. Even if Sun were to be from 0 to 3deg20 in Libra but > still if it > had say more than 4 bindus then i would consider Sun to be > powerful in > the house its placed in and its aspect as malefic with equal > intensity. Yes, at the same time I would consider the quality > to be > multiplied with a multiplication factor of 0.5 as its in its > neecha > sign but that would not affect the timing of event. > > So I think, If I go with my example to find power of planet > and u are > going by sign placement to find power then we are comparing > applies > with oranges and we wont get proper understanding of what each > other > is trying to say. > > For me to find a strength using ashtakavg then I would need > the full > chart so that way I can get the power of planets using > ashtakavarg. > > However, the key points I wanted to highlight I have stated. > > Cheers !!! > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > <krishna_1998 wrote: > > > > Dear Ash, > > > > Thanks for taking pain to explain it to me again. I > definitely > > see your point as to Navamsha is very important as we can > read > > so many things from it, specially the strength and > relationships > > of planets. > > > > Probably, I am not conveying my question correctly. Because > the > > 'why' I am asking is at a different level. You are saying > that > > we read vital a,b,c... from Navamsa and hence it is very > > important. My question is 'how come we get these vital > a,b,c... > > only from Navamsha and not from other divisional charts?' > > > > Let us pick up one thread and try to analyse: > > > > Let us say that the Sun is exalted in Rasi chart and > debilitated > > in Navamsha chart. In this case, we say that Sun is weak > (though > > exalted in Rasi chart). Let us take another case. Sun is > exalted > > in Rasi, in own house in Navamsha and debilited in another > varga > > chart, say D-10. Here, we consider the Sun to be strong in > > general and the debilitation of Sun is looked at only within > the > > context of D-10 and weakness to Sun is not attributed at > Rasi > > level. WHY this distinction between D-9 and D-10, both being > > varga charts? > > > > There should be a special significance of dividing a Rasi > into 9 > > equal parts called amshas. One thing that immediately comes > to > > my mind is that each navamsha is equal to one Nakshatra > pada. > > Navamsha positions of planets reflect the nakshatra padas > that > > they occupy in Rasi. This is specific to D-9 only and not > true > > for other varga charts. Is this giving the special > significance > > to D-9? If so, how do we explain it? If not, what else gives > the > > significance to Navamsha chart? > > > > Hope you got my point. > > > > Regards, > > Krishna > > > > > > > > > > --- ashsam73 <ashsam73 wrote: > > > > > Dear Krishna, > > > > > > I thought thats what I tried to do, in any case, let me > try to > > > answer > > > with my little knowledge on what I have learnt so far. > > > > > > Reply below your questions in CAPS. > > > > > > Cheers !!! > > > Ash -> http://www.ashtro.ca > > > > > > , Krishnamurthy > Seetharama > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > > > > > > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance > of > > > the > > > > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa > > > chart is > > > > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my > experience > > > so > > > > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood > > > what > > > > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > > > > important. > > > > > > > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the > overall > > > > strength of a planet? > > > > > > ASH : DETERMINATION OF STRENGTH IS FROM RASI FOR TIMING OF > > > EVENT USING > > > ASHTAKAVARGA, BUT IF U ARE USING SIGN PLACEMENT AS > DETERMINANT > > > OF > > > PLANETARY STRENGTH THEN FOR THAT I CANNOT COMMENT AS I > > > PERSONALLY GET > > > THE POWER OF PLANETS I.E. COMBINED POWER USING > ASHTAKAVARGA > > > BUT USE > > > THE SIGN PLACEMENT TO SEE THE QUALITY AND NOT FOR TIMING. > > > > > > NOW, NAVAMSA IS IMPORTANT AS IT GIVES THE SAMDHARMI SO SAY > IF > > > A PLANET > > > IS UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT, THEN THE NAVAMSA DEPOSITER OR > WHAT > > > WE CALL > > > ONE OF THE SAMDHARMI CAN STEP IN AND PROXY FOR THE MAIN > > > SIGNIFICATOR. > > > SO NAVAMSA BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT TO FIND THE PLANETARY > > > SAMDHARMI. > > > > > > JUST AS AN EXAMPLE, SAY JUPITER IS FROM 6DEG40 TO 10 DEG > IN > > > ARIES THEN > > > IT WOULD BECOME SAMDHARMI TO MERCURY AS IT WOULD BE IN > GEMINI > > > IN > > > NAVAMSA. SO FOR SOME CASES, DEPENDING ON STRENGTH OF > JUPITER > > > IN RASI > > > IF ITS UNABLE TO GIVE THE TIMING DUE TO SAY ITS ANTRA > BEING > > > FAR AWAY, > > > THEN IF MERCURY ANTA COMES BEFORE JUPITER AND IF MERCURY > HAS > > > ENOUGH > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 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Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Krishna ji, ==> > I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > as important as Rasi chart. <== * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart is not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due to the prior said reasons. ==> > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > strength of a planet? <== * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. ==> > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > aspects in a Rasi chart? <== * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There is no navamsa 'chart'.) ==> > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? <== * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong to mix the two. ==> > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? <== * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes yoga in Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the result in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not applicable to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. Love, Sreenadh , Krishnamurthy Seetharama <krishna_1998 wrote: > > Dear Kolachina ji, > > It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > important. > > - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > strength of a planet? > - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > aspects in a Rasi chart? > - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > halves representing the native. > > I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > charts! > > Regards, > Krishna > > --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: > > > Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > > > > I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > > your > > contributions. > > > > I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > > inputs > > you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > > to > > share my opinion (through my own experience). > > > > Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > > most > > probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > > approaches > > working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > > at the > > same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > > chart (of > > course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > > any of > > the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > > chart > > is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > > doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > > occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > > in > > the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > > confirming > > the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > > chart, > > how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > > some > > yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > > navamsa > > chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > > considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > > amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > > > > Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > > rasi > > chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > > condiered > > as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > > this > > considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > > the > > planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > > positioning > > within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > > means, > > within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > > point for > > the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > > strength > > considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > > the > > planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > > position > > of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > > rasi. > > In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > > Rasi and > > Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > > them > > that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > > same > > level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > > Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > > be > > viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > > by the > > rasi chart). > > > > Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > > chart > > alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > > observed > > this phenomenon in several charts. > > > > My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > > 12th > > house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > > chart > > with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > > lagna). I am > > a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > > and > > Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > > brought > > to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > > my life > > events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > > in > > the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > > here; I am > > just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > > chart, > > and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > > > > On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > > chart > > that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > > the 4th > > house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > > education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > > education). > > > > I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > > that > > both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > > isolation of > > the other. > > > > Thanks for all your contribution. > > > > Best regards, > > Satya S Kolachina > > > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar > > <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > > First > > there is > > > no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > > is > > perhaps > > > being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > > astrological > > > translations many a times words are to be understood in the > > context that > > > they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > > Swamsha > > in > > > alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > > occupation of > > > Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > > adhyaaya. > > > This does not mean he is speaking about two different > > parameters. > > I > > > think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > > interpretation > > > of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > > if he > > is > > > watching this discussion. > > > > > > If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > > indicated on > > > the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > > promised by > > > the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > > rasi > > chart, > > > through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > > hope > > this > > > opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > > discussion on > > the > > > list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > > worth. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > > > > > > > > Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > > one > > > > meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > > > > Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > > Rashi > > in > > > > which a graha is having amsha. > > > > > > > > Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > > shlokas > > which > > > > shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > > point. > > > > > > > > I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > > > > answer and > > > > explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ____________________ ______________ > Be a PS3 game guru. > Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games. > http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Sreenadh ji I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. I request members to share their experience. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > sreesog > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > > Dear Krishna ji, > ==> >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >> as important as Rasi chart. > <== > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart is > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due to > the prior said reasons. > ==> >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >> strength of a planet? > <== > * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. > ==> >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > <== > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There is > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > ==> >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > <== > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong to > mix the two. > ==> >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > <== > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes yoga in > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the result > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not applicable > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or > houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > <krishna_1998 wrote: >> >> Dear Kolachina ji, >> >> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so >> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >> important. >> >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >> strength of a planet? >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >> aspects in a Rasi chart? >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >> >> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it >> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal >> halves representing the native. >> >> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I >> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What >> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga >> charts! >> >> Regards, >> Krishna >> >> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi wrote: >> >>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>> >>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of >>> your >>> contributions. >>> >>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable >>> inputs >>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like >>> to >>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>> >>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone >>> most >>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>> approaches >>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; >>> at the >>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate >>> chart (of >>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since >>> any of >>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi >>> chart >>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart >>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several >>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed >>> in >>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>> confirming >>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate >>> chart, >>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking >>> some >>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the >>> navamsa >>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be >>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the >>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. >>> >>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the >>> rasi >>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is >>> condiered >>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is >>> this >>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though >>> the >>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>> positioning >>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; >>> means, >>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest >>> point for >>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>> strength >>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for >>> the >>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa >>> position >>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the >>> rasi. >>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the >>> Rasi and >>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of >>> them >>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the >>> same >>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but >>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can >>> be >>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given >>> by the >>> rasi chart). >>> >>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi >>> chart >>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>> observed >>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>> >>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the >>> 12th >>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi >>> chart >>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>> lagna). I am >>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) >>> and >>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is >>> brought >>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of >>> my life >>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna >>> in >>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>> here; I am >>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the >>> chart, >>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. >>> >>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi >>> chart >>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in >>> the 4th >>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and >>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional >>> education). >>> >>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize >>> that >>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>> isolation of >>> the other. >>> >>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Satya S Kolachina >>> >>> >>> >>> , Chandrashekhar >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>> >>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. >>> First >>> there is >>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it >>> is >>> perhaps >>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>> astrological >>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the >>> context that >>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and >>> Swamsha >>> in >>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>> occupation of >>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha >>> adhyaaya. >>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>> parameters. >>> I >>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>> interpretation >>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine >>> if he >>> is >>>> watching this discussion. >>>> >>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results >>> indicated on >>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential >>> promised by >>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>> rasi >>> chart, >>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I >>> hope >>> this >>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>> discussion on >>> the >>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is >>> worth. >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>> >>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the >>> Rashi >>> in >>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has >>> one >>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the >>> Rashi >>> in >>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>> >>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>> shlokas >>> which >>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>> point. >>>>> >>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the >>> >>> answer and >>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper >>> >>> >> === message truncated === >> >> >> >> >> > ____________________ > ______________ >> Be a PS3 game guru. >> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > Games. >> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as amshas.What do we do then! I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to see how they are used in classical examples.We have to look for pramanas. As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with authenticity that amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha is just an amsha (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted the relevant shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such a clear shloka without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where used for the same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to blindly beleive what we have been beleiving or we may change? It is upto you to choose your path and your views are respected too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references in Shastras,i would like follow what i want. Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were interpreting swamsha in a different way?.They ignored the first statement from Parashara - Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get it right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and proliferate.But as they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or Chandrashekhar ji or Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support it. It is like Fire and no one can corrupt it. Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the shlokas.D1 is not a chart as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto you to decide on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other Jyotish souls. But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of 15,000 people, and write 1000 articles - it can never match the power of Parasharas definiton on what the first division is.There will come a day when Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord show us the Light. Kind Regds Pradeep , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. > > I request members to share their experience. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > sreesog > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > ==> > >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. > > <== > > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart is > > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is > > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due to > > the prior said reasons. > > ==> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > > <== > > * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the > > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. > > ==> > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There is > > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > > > ==> > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. > > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong to > > mix the two. > > ==> > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > <== > > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes yoga in > > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the > > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the result > > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not applicable > > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in > > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or > > houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Kolachina ji, > >> > >> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > >> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > >> important. > >> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >> > >> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > >> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > >> halves representing the native. > >> > >> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > >> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > >> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > >> charts! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Krishna > >> > >> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > >>> > >>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > >>> your > >>> contributions. > >>> > >>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > >>> inputs > >>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > >>> to > >>> share my opinion (through my own experience). > >>> > >>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > >>> most > >>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > >>> approaches > >>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > >>> at the > >>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > >>> chart (of > >>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > >>> any of > >>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > >>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > >>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > >>> in > >>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > >>> confirming > >>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > >>> chart, > >>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > >>> some > >>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > >>> navamsa > >>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > >>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > >>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > >>> > >>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > >>> rasi > >>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > >>> condiered > >>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > >>> this > >>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > >>> the > >>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > >>> positioning > >>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > >>> means, > >>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > >>> point for > >>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > >>> strength > >>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > >>> the > >>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > >>> position > >>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > >>> rasi. > >>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > >>> Rasi and > >>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > >>> them > >>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > >>> same > >>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > >>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > >>> be > >>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > >>> by the > >>> rasi chart). > >>> > >>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > >>> observed > >>> this phenomenon in several charts. > >>> > >>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > >>> 12th > >>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > >>> lagna). I am > >>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > >>> and > >>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > >>> brought > >>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > >>> my life > >>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > >>> in > >>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > >>> here; I am > >>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > >>> chart, > >>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > >>> > >>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > >>> the 4th > >>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > >>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > >>> education). > >>> > >>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > >>> that > >>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > >>> isolation of > >>> the other. > >>> > >>> Thanks for all your contribution. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Satya S Kolachina > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> , Chandrashekhar > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dear Pradeep, > >>>> > >>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > >>> First > >>> there is > >>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > >>> is > >>> perhaps > >>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > >>> astrological > >>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the > >>> context that > >>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > >>> Swamsha > >>> in > >>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > >>> occupation of > >>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > >>> adhyaaya. > >>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different > >>> parameters. > >>> I > >>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > >>> interpretation > >>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > >>> if he > >>> is > >>>> watching this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > >>> indicated on > >>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > >>> promised by > >>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > >>> rasi > >>> chart, > >>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > >>> hope > >>> this > >>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > >>> discussion on > >>> the > >>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > >>> worth. > >>>> > >>>> Take care, > >>>> Chandrashekhar. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > >>>>> > >>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > >>> one > >>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > >>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > >>> shlokas > >>> which > >>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > >>> point. > >>>>> > >>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > >>> > >>> answer and > >>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > >>> > >>> > >> === message truncated === > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ___________________ _ > > ______________ > >> Be a PS3 game guru. > >> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > > Games. > >> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Pradeep ji > > Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as amshas.What do we > do then! > I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to see how they are > used in classical examples.We have to look for pramanas. > [Prafulla] Yes, best way forward then, will be to test the interpretations offered in case studies (say 50 charts) and reach to the conclusions. Nothing is conclusive - with so many contradictory opinions. > As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with authenticity that > amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha is just an amsha > (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted the relevant > shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such a clear shloka > without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective > interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where used for the > same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to blindly beleive what > we have been beleiving or we may change? > [Prafulla] Yes - I was reading the thread with great interest, but entire debate was inconclusive - perhaps for preoccupation of you / Shri Sanjay Rath. I will love to read any case studies with both the approach - so as to have a conclusive approach. Whenever you find time and wish to pen in - please do so. It will help many of the members like us. > It is upto you to choose your path and your views are respected > too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references in Shastras,i > would like follow what i want. > [Prafulla] Of course. Each one of us have either evolved our reading model or are still exploring. > Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were interpreting swamsha in > a different way?.They ignored the first statement from Parashara - > Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. [Prafulla] Well - my sanskri knowledge is poor. and with this constraint - I rely on commentaries. Can you please elaborate the interpretation of Swamsha (whenever you may find time). > > If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get it > right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and proliferate.But as > they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. > Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. > [Prafulla] Very true. But why would anyone like to fool others, in his astro pursuits. It may be our individual / collective fallacy to interpret many things incorrectly, but I do not think that intention of any jyotish scholar can be put to any subjective questioning. > Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or Chandrashekhar ji or > Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support it. It is like > Fire and no one can corrupt it. [Prafulla] Very true. I personally feel that these village/downtown astrologers know far superior jyotish application - than most of the internet / modern authors. > > Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the shlokas.D1 is not a chart > as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto you to decide > on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other Jyotish souls. > But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of 15,000 people, > and write 1000 articles - it can never match the power of Parasharas > definiton on what the first division is.There will come a day when > Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord show us the Light. [Prafulla] Well - I am not competent to comment on Parashar, but for sure - most sages do not agree in terms of interpretations on most of the things. So who is superior or inferior? regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Dear Sreenadh ji >> >> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart > (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be > perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. >> >> I request members to share their experience. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> http://www.prafulla.net >> >> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > be taken seriously. " >> ************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> sreesog >>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 >>> >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>> >>> Dear Krishna ji, >>> ==> >>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. >>> <== >>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart > is >>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is >>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due > to >>> the prior said reasons. >>> ==> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>> <== >>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the >>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. >>> ==> >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There > is >>> no navamsa 'chart'.) >>> >>> ==> >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means > that. >>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is > wrong to >>> mix the two. >>> ==> >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>> <== >>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes > yoga in >>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is > the >>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the > result >>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not > applicable >>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in >>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or >>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. >>> Love, >>> Sreenadh >>> >>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama >>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Kolachina ji, >>>> >>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the >>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so >>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what >>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >>>> important. >>>> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>> >>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it >>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal >>>> halves representing the native. >>>> >>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I >>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What >>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga >>>> charts! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Krishna >>>> >>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>>>> >>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of >>>>> your >>>>> contributions. >>>>> >>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable >>>>> inputs >>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like >>>>> to >>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>>>> >>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone >>>>> most >>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>>>> approaches >>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; >>>>> at the >>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate >>>>> chart (of >>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since >>>>> any of >>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart >>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several >>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed >>>>> in >>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>>>> confirming >>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate >>>>> chart, >>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking >>>>> some >>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the >>>>> navamsa >>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be >>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the >>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. >>>>> >>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is >>>>> condiered >>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is >>>>> this >>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though >>>>> the >>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>>>> positioning >>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; >>>>> means, >>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest >>>>> point for >>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>>>> strength >>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for >>>>> the >>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa >>>>> position >>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the >>>>> rasi. >>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the >>>>> Rasi and >>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of >>>>> them >>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the >>>>> same >>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but >>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can >>>>> be >>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given >>>>> by the >>>>> rasi chart). >>>>> >>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>>>> observed >>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>>>> >>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the >>>>> 12th >>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>>>> lagna). I am >>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) >>>>> and >>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is >>>>> brought >>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of >>>>> my life >>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna >>>>> in >>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>>>> here; I am >>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the >>>>> chart, >>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in >>>>> the 4th >>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and >>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional >>>>> education). >>>>> >>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize >>>>> that >>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>>>> isolation of >>>>> the other. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Satya S Kolachina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> , Chandrashekhar >>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. >>>>> First >>>>> there is >>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it >>>>> is >>>>> perhaps >>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>>>> astrological >>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the >>>>> context that >>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and >>>>> Swamsha >>>>> in >>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>>>> occupation of >>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha >>>>> adhyaaya. >>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>>>> parameters. >>>>> I >>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>>>> interpretation >>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine >>>>> if he >>>>> is >>>>>> watching this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results >>>>> indicated on >>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential >>>>> promised by >>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart, >>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I >>>>> hope >>>>> this >>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>>>> discussion on >>>>> the >>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is >>>>> worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has >>>>> one >>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>>>> shlokas >>>>> which >>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the >>>>> >>>>> answer and >>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper >>>>> >>>>> >>>> === message truncated === >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > ___________________ > _ >>> ______________ >>>> Be a PS3 game guru. >>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >>> Games. >>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Vijaydasji, I think that amshas as charts has now been unfortunately established as a matter of fact. People have vested so much energy into making them so that they can never go and examine the evidence. The main evidence is accurate predictions. Accurate prediction of natal events is where the ultimate proof is. We are moving far away from that as well. I am glad that people like you and sreenadh and people with open minds like chadrashekharji are digging up the classics to look at what is actually been said. As I said before, only way is to take a concrete prediction given in classics( not generic things like, he will have sweet speech, and be learned, etc.) concrete prediction where amsha is mentioned and put it to test. Otherwise it is just waste of energy as one who has committed to D-chart view point will never change it and vice versa. Interpretation of slokas can also be subjective it seems. So lets find concrete examples. Now karakamsha, if the sage says 2nd from karakamsha, now does it mean in 2nd house from karakamsha in navansha chart or 2nd house from karakamsha rashi in rashi chart, or 2nd amsha from karakamsha in navansha. Note that even if we take it in navansha, it does not mean navansha is a separate chart with aspects etc. It just means 2nd amsha from karakamsha( No houses) Satish --- vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > Dear Prafulla ji > > Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as > amshas.What do we > do then! > I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to > see how they are > used in classical examples.We have to look for > pramanas. > > As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with > authenticity that > amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha > is just an amsha > (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted > the relevant > shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such > a clear shloka > without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective > interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where > used for the > same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to > blindly beleive what > we have been beleiving or we may change? > > It is upto you to choose your path and your views > are respected > too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references > in Shastras,i > would like follow what i want. > > Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were > interpreting swamsha in > a different way?.They ignored the first statement > from Parashara - > Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. > > If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get > it > right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and > proliferate.But as > they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. > Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. > > Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or > Chandrashekhar ji or > Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support > it. It is like > Fire and no one can corrupt it. > > Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the > shlokas.D1 is not a chart > as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto > you to decide > on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other > Jyotish souls. > But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of > 15,000 people, > and write 1000 articles - it can never match the > power of Parasharas > definiton on what the first division is.There will > come a day when > Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord > show us the Light. > > Kind Regds > Pradeep > , Prafulla Gang > <jyotish > wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using > navamsa chart > (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 > charts - can be > perspective. But - as most authors say - just like > D1 chart. > > > > I request members to share their experience. > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically > include the right to > be taken seriously. " > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > sreesog > > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > > > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is > so important? > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > ==> > > >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart > is > > >> as important as Rasi chart. > > > <== > > > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only > Navamsa. Navamsa chart > is > > > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never > be, because it is > > > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than > other amsas due > to > > > the prior said reasons. > > > ==> > > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa > determines the overall > > >> strength of a planet? > > > <== > > > * Because the quality of earth determines the > strength of the > > > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per > their importance. > > > ==> > > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in > Navamsa chart like > > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > <== > > > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in > Navamsa. (There > is > > > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > > > > > ==> > > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can > be treated as if > > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > <== > > > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, > it only means > that. > > > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means > that. It is > wrong to > > > mix the two. > > > ==> > > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa > chart as well? > > > <== > > > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa > 'chart'. But yes > yoga in > > > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. > Because it is > the > > > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to > predict the > result > > > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and > houses are not > applicable > > > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should > be considered in > > > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient > texts about aspect or > > > houses essentially mean that they are referring > to Rasi chart. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , > Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear Kolachina ji, > > >> > > >> It was interesting to read your comments on > importance of the > > >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that > Navamsa chart is > > >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my > experience so > > >> far reading charts. However, I have still not > understood what > > >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart > being so > > >> important. > > >> > > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa > determines the overall > > >> strength of a planet? > > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in > Navamsa chart like > > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can > be treated as if > > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa > chart as well? > > >> > > >> By looking at the kind of importance given to > Navamsa chart, it > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ TV dinner still cooling? Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV. http://tv./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji, Yes, I will. Love, Sreenadh , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Shreenadh ji > > Whenever time permits you, please take any chart and elaborate the interpretation model of navamsa. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > sreesog > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:03:07 -0000 > > > > Fwd: Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so > > important? > > > > , " Sreenadh " <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > ==> > >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. > > <== > > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart is > > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is > > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due to > > the prior said reasons. > > ==> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > > <== > > * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the > > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. > > ==> > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There is > > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > > > ==> > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. > > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong to > > mix the two. > > ==> > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > <== > > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes yoga in > > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the > > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the result > > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not applicable > > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in > > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or > > houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Kolachina ji, > >> > >> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > >> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > >> important. > >> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >> > >> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > >> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > >> halves representing the native. > >> > >> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > >> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > >> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > >> charts! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Krishna > >> > >> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > >>> > >>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > >>> your > >>> contributions. > >>> > >>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > >>> inputs > >>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > >>> to > >>> share my opinion (through my own experience). > >>> > >>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > >>> most > >>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > >>> approaches > >>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > >>> at the > >>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > >>> chart (of > >>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > >>> any of > >>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > >>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > >>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > >>> in > >>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > >>> confirming > >>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > >>> chart, > >>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > >>> some > >>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > >>> navamsa > >>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > >>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > >>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > >>> > >>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > >>> rasi > >>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > >>> condiered > >>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > >>> this > >>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > >>> the > >>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > >>> positioning > >>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > >>> means, > >>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > >>> point for > >>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > >>> strength > >>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > >>> the > >>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > >>> position > >>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > >>> rasi. > >>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > >>> Rasi and > >>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > >>> them > >>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > >>> same > >>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > >>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > >>> be > >>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > >>> by the > >>> rasi chart). > >>> > >>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > >>> observed > >>> this phenomenon in several charts. > >>> > >>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > >>> 12th > >>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > >>> lagna). I am > >>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > >>> and > >>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > >>> brought > >>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > >>> my life > >>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > >>> in > >>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > >>> here; I am > >>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > >>> chart, > >>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > >>> > >>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > >>> the 4th > >>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > >>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > >>> education). > >>> > >>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > >>> that > >>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > >>> isolation of > >>> the other. > >>> > >>> Thanks for all your contribution. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Satya S Kolachina > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> , Chandrashekhar > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dear Pradeep, > >>>> > >>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > >>> First > >>> there is > >>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > >>> is > >>> perhaps > >>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > >>> astrological > >>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the > >>> context that > >>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > >>> Swamsha > >>> in > >>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > >>> occupation of > >>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > >>> adhyaaya. > >>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different > >>> parameters. > >>> I > >>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > >>> interpretation > >>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > >>> if he > >>> is > >>>> watching this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > >>> indicated on > >>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > >>> promised by > >>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > >>> rasi > >>> chart, > >>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > >>> hope > >>> this > >>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > >>> discussion on > >>> the > >>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > >>> worth. > >>>> > >>>> Take care, > >>>> Chandrashekhar. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > >>>>> > >>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > >>> one > >>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > >>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > >>> shlokas > >>> which > >>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > >>> point. > >>>>> > >>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > >>> > >>> answer and > >>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > >>> > >>> > >> === message truncated === > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ____________________ > > ______________ > >> Be a PS3 game guru. > >> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > > Games. > >> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > >> > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji, * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just like D1 chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same. * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of planets in Navamasa " * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets are placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna " I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the sages; If not I don't have anything to say. Love, Sreenadh , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. > > I request members to share their experience. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > > > sreesog > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > ==> > >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. > > <== > > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart is > > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is > > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due to > > the prior said reasons. > > ==> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > > <== > > * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the > > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. > > ==> > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There is > > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > > > ==> > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > <== > > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. > > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong to > > mix the two. > > ==> > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > > <== > > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes yoga in > > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the > > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the result > > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not applicable > > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in > > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or > > houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > >> > >> Dear Kolachina ji, > >> > >> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > >> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > >> important. > >> > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >> strength of a planet? > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >> > >> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > >> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > >> halves representing the native. > >> > >> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > >> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > >> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > >> charts! > >> > >> Regards, > >> Krishna > >> > >> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > >>> > >>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > >>> your > >>> contributions. > >>> > >>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > >>> inputs > >>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > >>> to > >>> share my opinion (through my own experience). > >>> > >>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > >>> most > >>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > >>> approaches > >>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > >>> at the > >>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > >>> chart (of > >>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > >>> any of > >>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > >>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > >>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > >>> in > >>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > >>> confirming > >>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > >>> chart, > >>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > >>> some > >>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > >>> navamsa > >>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > >>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > >>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > >>> > >>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > >>> rasi > >>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > >>> condiered > >>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > >>> this > >>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > >>> the > >>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > >>> positioning > >>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > >>> means, > >>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > >>> point for > >>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > >>> strength > >>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > >>> the > >>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > >>> position > >>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > >>> rasi. > >>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > >>> Rasi and > >>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > >>> them > >>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > >>> same > >>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > >>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > >>> be > >>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > >>> by the > >>> rasi chart). > >>> > >>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > >>> observed > >>> this phenomenon in several charts. > >>> > >>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > >>> 12th > >>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > >>> chart > >>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > >>> lagna). I am > >>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > >>> and > >>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > >>> brought > >>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > >>> my life > >>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > >>> in > >>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > >>> here; I am > >>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > >>> chart, > >>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > >>> > >>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > >>> chart > >>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > >>> the 4th > >>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > >>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > >>> education). > >>> > >>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > >>> that > >>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > >>> isolation of > >>> the other. > >>> > >>> Thanks for all your contribution. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Satya S Kolachina > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> , Chandrashekhar > >>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dear Pradeep, > >>>> > >>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > >>> First > >>> there is > >>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > >>> is > >>> perhaps > >>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > >>> astrological > >>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the > >>> context that > >>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > >>> Swamsha > >>> in > >>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > >>> occupation of > >>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > >>> adhyaaya. > >>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different > >>> parameters. > >>> I > >>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > >>> interpretation > >>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > >>> if he > >>> is > >>>> watching this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > >>> indicated on > >>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > >>> promised by > >>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > >>> rasi > >>> chart, > >>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > >>> hope > >>> this > >>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > >>> discussion on > >>> the > >>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > >>> worth. > >>>> > >>>> Take care, > >>>> Chandrashekhar. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > >>>>> > >>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > >>> one > >>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > >>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > >>> Rashi > >>> in > >>>>> which a graha is having amsha. > >>>>> > >>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > >>> shlokas > >>> which > >>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > >>> point. > >>>>> > >>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > >>> > >>> answer and > >>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > >>> > >>> > >> === message truncated === > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > ____________________ > > ______________ > >> Be a PS3 game guru. > >> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > > Games. > >> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Dear Sreenadh ji Many thanks. I look forward to understand this new perspective. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > sreesog > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:49:06 -0000 > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so > important? > > Dear Prafulla ji, > Yes, I will. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , Prafulla Gang > <jyotish wrote: >> >> Dear Shreenadh ji >> >> Whenever time permits you, please take any chart and elaborate the > interpretation model of navamsa. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> http://www.prafulla.net >> >> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > be taken seriously. " >> ************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> sreesog >>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 08:03:07 -0000 >>> >>> Fwd: Re: Why Navamsa Chart is > so >>> important? >>> >>> , " Sreenadh " <sreesog@> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Krishna ji, >>> ==> >>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. >>> <== >>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart > is >>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is >>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due > to >>> the prior said reasons. >>> ==> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>> <== >>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the >>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. >>> ==> >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There > is >>> no navamsa 'chart'.) >>> >>> ==> >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. >>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong > to >>> mix the two. >>> ==> >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>> <== >>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes > yoga in >>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the >>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the > result >>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not > applicable >>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in >>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or >>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. >>> Love, >>> Sreenadh >>> >>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama >>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Kolachina ji, >>>> >>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the >>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so >>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what >>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >>>> important. >>>> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>> >>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it >>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal >>>> halves representing the native. >>>> >>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I >>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What >>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga >>>> charts! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Krishna >>>> >>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>>>> >>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of >>>>> your >>>>> contributions. >>>>> >>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable >>>>> inputs >>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like >>>>> to >>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>>>> >>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone >>>>> most >>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>>>> approaches >>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; >>>>> at the >>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate >>>>> chart (of >>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since >>>>> any of >>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart >>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several >>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed >>>>> in >>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>>>> confirming >>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate >>>>> chart, >>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking >>>>> some >>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the >>>>> navamsa >>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be >>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the >>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. >>>>> >>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is >>>>> condiered >>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is >>>>> this >>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though >>>>> the >>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>>>> positioning >>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; >>>>> means, >>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest >>>>> point for >>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>>>> strength >>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for >>>>> the >>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa >>>>> position >>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the >>>>> rasi. >>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the >>>>> Rasi and >>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of >>>>> them >>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the >>>>> same >>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but >>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can >>>>> be >>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given >>>>> by the >>>>> rasi chart). >>>>> >>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>>>> observed >>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>>>> >>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the >>>>> 12th >>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>>>> lagna). I am >>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) >>>>> and >>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is >>>>> brought >>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of >>>>> my life >>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna >>>>> in >>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>>>> here; I am >>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the >>>>> chart, >>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in >>>>> the 4th >>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and >>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional >>>>> education). >>>>> >>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize >>>>> that >>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>>>> isolation of >>>>> the other. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Satya S Kolachina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> , Chandrashekhar >>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. >>>>> First >>>>> there is >>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it >>>>> is >>>>> perhaps >>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>>>> astrological >>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the >>>>> context that >>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and >>>>> Swamsha >>>>> in >>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>>>> occupation of >>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha >>>>> adhyaaya. >>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>>>> parameters. >>>>> I >>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>>>> interpretation >>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine >>>>> if he >>>>> is >>>>>> watching this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results >>>>> indicated on >>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential >>>>> promised by >>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart, >>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I >>>>> hope >>>>> this >>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>>>> discussion on >>>>> the >>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is >>>>> worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has >>>>> one >>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>>>> shlokas >>>>> which >>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the >>>>> >>>>> answer and >>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper >>>>> >>>>> >>>> === message truncated === >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > ____________________ >>> ______________ >>>> Be a PS3 game guru. >>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >>> Games. >>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 >>>> >>> >>> --- End forwarded message --- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Prafulla ji, You said > [Prafulla] Very true. But why would anyone like to fool others, in his astro pursuits. It may be our individual / collective fallacy to interpret many things incorrectly, but I do not think that intention of any jyotish scholar can be put to any subjective questioning> > I don't think the intent would be to fool. But presented with a chart and not being able to explain the event, people tend to create new parameters. D-charts is so nice it can explain away any event. I am convinced with D-charts one can fit any event in any chart. There are many parameters even in rashi. Take arudhs, different lagnas, take it from lagna, arudh lagna, karaka lagna,etc., then add to it D-charts well that leads to confusion. But once one has traversed that path of after the fact explaining, one is stuck in the path. How can anyone who has written books and articles on this falacy ever get out of it. When one says something often enough one starts beleiving in it. Put a chart for prediction and see the fun.I will be surprised if people who propose these parameters even use them. it makes a great story for articles. Fills up pages too. Just imagine if you can put up 4 D-charts instead of one rashi chart, more pages in a book. Satish --- Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: ______________________________\ ____ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/features_spam.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Dear Prafulla ji You have given a very balanced and positive reply.Thanks for that.Pls see my reply. Regds Pradeep , Prafulla Gang <jyotish wrote: > > Dear Pradeep ji > > > > > > Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as amshas.What do we > > do then! > > I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to see how they are > > used in classical examples.We have to look for pramanas. > > > > [Prafulla] Yes, best way forward then, will be to test the interpretations offered in case studies (say 50 charts) and reach to the conclusions. Nothing is conclusive - with so many contradictory opinions. > Pradeep:This is very true.Next step is definitely in that direction. > > As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with authenticity that > > amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha is just an amsha > > (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted the relevant > > shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such a clear shloka > > without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective > > interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where used for the > > same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to blindly beleive what > > we have been beleiving or we may change? > > > > [Prafulla] Yes - I was reading the thread with great interest, but entire debate was inconclusive - perhaps for preoccupation of you / Shri Sanjay Rath. I will love to read any case studies with both the approach - so as to have a conclusive approach. Whenever you find time and wish to pen in - please do so. It will help many of the members like us. Pradeep:I will be more than gald to do so,If Shri rath is prepared to do so. Unlike Shri Narasimha Rao,who gave me all freedom to write in vedic astrology list,shri Rath a knowledgable scholar did not allow my posts to get published in Sohamsa.I feel this is not politics to declare constitutional emergency and curtail freedom of expression. We will see if shri Rath is prepared.He had challenged Raoji in the past.I am no man to challenge the scholar in shri Rath.I know my limitations.But i can go for a honest debate. > > It is upto you to choose your path and your views are respected > > too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references in Shastras,i > > would like follow what i want. > > > > [Prafulla] Of course. Each one of us have either evolved our reading model or are still exploring. Pradeep:True it can be who is at at a lower level or perhaps you in the evolutionary ladder.We do not know.Let us respect each other. > > > Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were interpreting swamsha in > > a different way?.They ignored the first statement from Parashara - > > Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. > > [Prafulla] Well - my sanskri knowledge is poor. and with this constraint - I rely on commentaries. Can you please elaborate the interpretation of Swamsha (whenever you may find time). Pradeep:For Swamsha -pls see the previous mail to Chandrashekhar ji.I have also disagreed with Raojis views.I have not learned Sanskrit either.My grandparents were having good command.May be with their blessings , and the blessings of the Gurus who have been guiding me,i am able to understand a bit. > > > > > If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get it > > right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and proliferate.But as > > they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. > > Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. > > > [Prafulla] Very true. But why would anyone like to fool others, in his astro pursuits. It may be our individual / collective fallacy to interpret many things incorrectly, but I do not think that intention of any jyotish scholar can be put to any subjective questioning. Pradeep:Satish ji has explained one part.I agree that we all are in search of Truth.But we have to use the word fool,when somebody can understand that there is an error in their veiw and still is not prepared to accept.For eg.Vrishamsha''KA'' gathe and Tulamshe.If shri Rath is not changing his view after this -what can we call such an approach.Can you pls check with him on this. > > > Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or Chandrashekhar ji or > > Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support it. It is like > > Fire and no one can corrupt it. > > [Prafulla] Very true. I personally feel that these village/downtown astrologers know far superior jyotish application - than most of the internet / modern authors. > Pradeep:Thanks > > > > Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the shlokas.D1 is not a chart > > as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto you to decide > > on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other Jyotish souls. > > But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of 15,000 people, > > and write 1000 articles - it can never match the power of Parasharas > > definiton on what the first division is.There will come a day when > > Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord show us the Light. > > [Prafulla] Well - I am not competent to comment on Parashar, but for sure - most sages do not agree in terms of interpretations on most of the things. So who is superior or inferior? > Pradeep:Same with me too.But atleast regarding basics -What is a Rashi,what is a Varga,How they have to be understood -we need to have agreement right.Else is it possible to read english with two sets of alphabets. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > http://www.prafulla.net > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " > ************************************************ > > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > >> > >> Dear Sreenadh ji > >> > >> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart > > (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be > > perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. > >> > >> I request members to share their experience. > >> > >> regards / Prafulla Gang > >> http://www.prafulla.net > >> > >> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > > be taken seriously. " > >> ************************************************ > >> > >> > >>> > >>> sreesog@ > >>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > >>> > >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > >>> > >>> Dear Krishna ji, > >>> ==> > >>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >>>> as important as Rasi chart. > >>> <== > >>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart > > is > >>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is > >>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due > > to > >>> the prior said reasons. > >>> ==> > >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >>>> strength of a planet? > >>> <== > >>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the > >>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. > >>> ==> > >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >>> <== > >>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There > > is > >>> no navamsa 'chart'.) > >>> > >>> ==> > >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >>> <== > >>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means > > that. > >>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is > > wrong to > >>> mix the two. > >>> ==> > >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >>> <== > >>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes > > yoga in > >>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is > > the > >>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the > > result > >>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not > > applicable > >>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in > >>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or > >>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. > >>> Love, > >>> Sreenadh > >>> > >>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama > >>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Dear Kolachina ji, > >>>> > >>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the > >>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is > >>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so > >>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what > >>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so > >>>> important. > >>>> > >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall > >>>> strength of a planet? > >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like > >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? > >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if > >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? > >>>> > >>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it > >>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal > >>>> halves representing the native. > >>>> > >>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I > >>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What > >>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga > >>>> charts! > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Krishna > >>>> > >>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of > >>>>> your > >>>>> contributions. > >>>>> > >>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable > >>>>> inputs > >>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like > >>>>> to > >>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). > >>>>> > >>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone > >>>>> most > >>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the > >>>>> approaches > >>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; > >>>>> at the > >>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate > >>>>> chart (of > >>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since > >>>>> any of > >>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi > >>>>> chart > >>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart > >>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several > >>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed > >>>>> in > >>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for > >>>>> confirming > >>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate > >>>>> chart, > >>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking > >>>>> some > >>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the > >>>>> navamsa > >>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be > >>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the > >>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. > >>>>> > >>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the > >>>>> rasi > >>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is > >>>>> condiered > >>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is > >>>>> this > >>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though > >>>>> the > >>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its > >>>>> positioning > >>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; > >>>>> means, > >>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest > >>>>> point for > >>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its > >>>>> strength > >>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for > >>>>> the > >>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa > >>>>> position > >>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the > >>>>> rasi. > >>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the > >>>>> Rasi and > >>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of > >>>>> them > >>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the > >>>>> same > >>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but > >>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can > >>>>> be > >>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given > >>>>> by the > >>>>> rasi chart). > >>>>> > >>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi > >>>>> chart > >>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have > >>>>> observed > >>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. > >>>>> > >>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the > >>>>> 12th > >>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi > >>>>> chart > >>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa > >>>>> lagna). I am > >>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) > >>>>> and > >>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is > >>>>> brought > >>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of > >>>>> my life > >>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna > >>>>> in > >>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion > >>>>> here; I am > >>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the > >>>>> chart, > >>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. > >>>>> > >>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi > >>>>> chart > >>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in > >>>>> the 4th > >>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and > >>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional > >>>>> education). > >>>>> > >>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize > >>>>> that > >>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in > >>>>> isolation of > >>>>> the other. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. > >>>>> > >>>>> Best regards, > >>>>> Satya S Kolachina > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> , Chandrashekhar > >>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dear Pradeep, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. > >>>>> First > >>>>> there is > >>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it > >>>>> is > >>>>> perhaps > >>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in > >>>>> astrological > >>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the > >>>>> context that > >>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and > >>>>> Swamsha > >>>>> in > >>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of > >>>>> occupation of > >>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha > >>>>> adhyaaya. > >>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different > >>>>> parameters. > >>>>> I > >>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in > >>>>> interpretation > >>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine > >>>>> if he > >>>>> is > >>>>>> watching this discussion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results > >>>>> indicated on > >>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential > >>>>> promised by > >>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in > >>>>> rasi > >>>>> chart, > >>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I > >>>>> hope > >>>>> this > >>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the > >>>>> discussion on > >>>>> the > >>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is > >>>>> worth. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Take care, > >>>>>> Chandrashekhar. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the > >>>>> Rashi > >>>>> in > >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has > >>>>> one > >>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. > >>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the > >>>>> Rashi > >>>>> in > >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some > >>>>> shlokas > >>>>> which > >>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view > >>>>> point. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the > >>>>> > >>>>> answer and > >>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> === message truncated === > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > > ___________________ > > _ > >>> ______________ > >>>> Be a PS3 game guru. > >>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at > >>> Games. > >>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Dear Satish ji Your points are valid.We have to start explaining with the help of real charts.Let it be our next assignment. The real point is - Whether we see in navamsha arrangement or Rashi,the 2nd will point to the Same rashi. This is because -amshas relate back to their Rashis and analysis are always doen w.r to the same skeleton. Now what are we going to see depends on what is said. If placement or aspect in the 2nd from Karkamsha is said - We have to see the planetary placement there and aspects(what we see in Rashi chakra). If amsha or varga in the 2nd from karkamsha is said,then we have to see the graha having amsha in the said Rashi.This is same as what you see in the corresponding rashi in navamsha.In couple of cases sage do mention this. Thus it is always w.r to the same skeleton.But planets have 2 types of relationships -Placement/Amsha. Regds Pradeep , SPK <aquaris_rising wrote: > > Vijaydasji, > > I think that amshas as charts has now been > unfortunately established as a matter of fact. People > have vested so much energy into making them so that > they can never go and examine the evidence. The main > evidence is accurate predictions. Accurate prediction > of natal events is where the ultimate proof is. We are > moving far away from that as well. I am glad that > people like you and sreenadh and people with open > minds like chadrashekharji are digging up the classics > to look at what is actually been said. > > As I said before, only way is to take a concrete > prediction given in classics( not generic things like, > he will have sweet speech, and be learned, etc.) > concrete prediction where amsha is mentioned and put > it to test. Otherwise it is just waste of energy as > one who has committed to D-chart view point will never > change it and vice versa. Interpretation of slokas can > also be subjective it seems. So lets find concrete > examples. > > Now karakamsha, if the sage says 2nd from karakamsha, > now does it mean in 2nd house from karakamsha in > navansha chart or 2nd house from karakamsha rashi in > rashi chart, or 2nd amsha from karakamsha in navansha. > Note that even if we take it in navansha, it does not > mean navansha is a separate chart with aspects etc. It > just means 2nd amsha from karakamsha( No houses) > > Satish > --- vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote: > > > Dear Prafulla ji > > > > Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as > > amshas.What do we > > do then! > > I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to > > see how they are > > used in classical examples.We have to look for > > pramanas. > > > > As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with > > authenticity that > > amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha > > is just an amsha > > (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted > > the relevant > > shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such > > a clear shloka > > without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective > > interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where > > used for the > > same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to > > blindly beleive what > > we have been beleiving or we may change? > > > > It is upto you to choose your path and your views > > are respected > > too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references > > in Shastras,i > > would like follow what i want. > > > > Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were > > interpreting swamsha in > > a different way?.They ignored the first statement > > from Parashara - > > Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. > > > > If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get > > it > > right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and > > proliferate.But as > > they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. > > Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. > > > > Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or > > Chandrashekhar ji or > > Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support > > it. It is like > > Fire and no one can corrupt it. > > > > Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the > > shlokas.D1 is not a chart > > as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto > > you to decide > > on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other > > Jyotish souls. > > But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of > > 15,000 people, > > and write 1000 articles - it can never match the > > power of Parasharas > > definiton on what the first division is.There will > > come a day when > > Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord > > show us the Light. > > > > Kind Regds > > Pradeep > > , Prafulla Gang > > <jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using > > navamsa chart > > (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 > > charts - can be > > perspective. But - as most authors say - just like > > D1 chart. > > > > > > I request members to share their experience. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically > > include the right to > > be taken seriously. " > > > ************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sreesog@ > > > > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 > > > > > > > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is > > so important? > > > > > > > > Dear Krishna ji, > > > > ==> > > > >> I too to the view that Navamsa chart > > is > > > >> as important as Rasi chart. > > > > <== > > > > * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only > > Navamsa. Navamsa chart > > is > > > > not as important as Rasi chart and it can never > > be, because it is > > > > only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than > > other amsas due > > to > > > > the prior said reasons. > > > > ==> > > > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa > > determines the overall > > > >> strength of a planet? > > > > <== > > > > * Because the quality of earth determines the > > strength of the > > > > plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per > > their importance. > > > > ==> > > > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in > > Navamsa chart like > > > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > > <== > > > > * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in > > Navamsa. (There > > is > > > > no navamsa 'chart'.) > > > > > > > > ==> > > > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can > > be treated as if > > > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > > <== > > > > * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, > > it only means > > that. > > > > When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means > > that. It is > > wrong to > > > > mix the two. > > > > ==> > > > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa > > chart as well? > > > > <== > > > > * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa > > 'chart'. But yes > > yoga in > > > > Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. > > Because it is > > the > > > > same principles as used in Rasi that are used to > > predict the > > result > > > > in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and > > houses are not > > applicable > > > > to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should > > be considered in > > > > Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient > > texts about aspect or > > > > houses essentially mean that they are referring > > to Rasi chart. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , > > Krishnamurthy Seetharama > > > > <krishna_1998@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear Kolachina ji, > > > >> > > > >> It was interesting to read your comments on > > importance of the > > > >> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that > > Navamsa chart is > > > >> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my > > experience so > > > >> far reading charts. However, I have still not > > understood what > > > >> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart > > being so > > > >> important. > > > >> > > > >> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa > > determines the overall > > > >> strength of a planet? > > > >> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in > > Navamsa chart like > > > >> aspects in a Rasi chart? > > > >> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can > > be treated as if > > > >> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? > > > >> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa > > chart as well? > > > >> > > > >> By looking at the kind of importance given to > > Navamsa chart, it > > > === message truncated === > > > > > ___________________ _______________ > TV dinner still cooling? > Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV. > http://tv./ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well Sreenadh ji - at times, these issues become choice or prejudices in our own form of reading model. Had there not been any substance in interpreting D9 charts - lot many stalwarts must not have explored it - and I presume - many of them know better sanskrit / jyotish (rather both) than all of us on the forum collectively. So if at all - anyone wish to contest the interpretation - then many of those stalwarts are the people - must be debated with. On the forum, where not many great sanskrit scholars / jyotish researchers - the arguments may not have any relevance. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ > > sreesog > Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:56:36 -0000 > > Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? > > Dear Prafulla ji, > * No ancient text ask us to read Navamsha (not chart) " just like D1 > chart " ; nor they provide slokas for the same. > * No ancient text provide as the results for " aspects of planets in > Navamasa " > * Nor they give us the results to be predicted when planets are > placed " x house with reference to navamsa lagna " > > I hope we are trying to study astrology as taught by the sages; If > not I don't have anything to say. > > Love, > Sreenadh > > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish > wrote: >> >> Dear Sreenadh ji >> >> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart > (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can be > perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. >> >> I request members to share their experience. >> >> regards / Prafulla Gang >> http://www.prafulla.net >> >> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to > be taken seriously. " >> ************************************************ >> >> >>> >>> sreesog >>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 >>> >>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>> >>> Dear Krishna ji, >>> ==> >>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. >>> <== >>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa chart > is >>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it is >>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas due > to >>> the prior said reasons. >>> ==> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>> <== >>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the >>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. >>> ==> >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. (There > is >>> no navamsa 'chart'.) >>> >>> ==> >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>> <== >>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means that. >>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is wrong > to >>> mix the two. >>> ==> >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>> <== >>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes > yoga in >>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is the >>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the > result >>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not > applicable >>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered in >>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect or >>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. >>> Love, >>> Sreenadh >>> >>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama >>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Kolachina ji, >>>> >>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the >>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so >>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what >>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >>>> important. >>>> >>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>> strength of a planet? >>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as if >>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>> >>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, it >>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two equal >>>> halves representing the native. >>>> >>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I >>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? What >>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga >>>> charts! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Krishna >>>> >>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>>>> >>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of >>>>> your >>>>> contributions. >>>>> >>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable >>>>> inputs >>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like >>>>> to >>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>>>> >>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone >>>>> most >>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>>>> approaches >>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; >>>>> at the >>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate >>>>> chart (of >>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since >>>>> any of >>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart >>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several >>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas viewed >>>>> in >>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>>>> confirming >>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate >>>>> chart, >>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking >>>>> some >>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the >>>>> navamsa >>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be >>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at the >>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of Rasi. >>>>> >>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in the >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is >>>>> condiered >>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is >>>>> this >>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even though >>>>> the >>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>>>> positioning >>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; >>>>> means, >>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest >>>>> point for >>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>>>> strength >>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths for >>>>> the >>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa >>>>> position >>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the >>>>> rasi. >>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the >>>>> Rasi and >>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of >>>>> them >>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the >>>>> same >>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but >>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it can >>>>> be >>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given >>>>> by the >>>>> rasi chart). >>>>> >>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>>>> observed >>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>>>> >>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the >>>>> 12th >>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>>>> lagna). I am >>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) >>>>> and >>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is >>>>> brought >>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of >>>>> my life >>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa lagna >>>>> in >>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>>>> here; I am >>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the >>>>> chart, >>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi >>>>> chart >>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in >>>>> the 4th >>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and >>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional >>>>> education). >>>>> >>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize >>>>> that >>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>>>> isolation of >>>>> the other. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Satya S Kolachina >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> , Chandrashekhar >>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. >>>>> First >>>>> there is >>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it >>>>> is >>>>> perhaps >>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>>>> astrological >>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the >>>>> context that >>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and >>>>> Swamsha >>>>> in >>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>>>> occupation of >>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha >>>>> adhyaaya. >>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>>>> parameters. >>>>> I >>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>>>> interpretation >>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine >>>>> if he >>>>> is >>>>>> watching this discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results >>>>> indicated on >>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential >>>>> promised by >>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>>>> rasi >>>>> chart, >>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I >>>>> hope >>>>> this >>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>>>> discussion on >>>>> the >>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is >>>>> worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, >>>>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has >>>>> one >>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the >>>>> Rashi >>>>> in >>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>>>> shlokas >>>>> which >>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the >>>>> >>>>> answer and >>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper >>>>> >>>>> >>>> === message truncated === >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > ____________________ >>> ______________ >>>> Be a PS3 game guru. >>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >>> Games. >>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Pradeep ji Many thanks for your notes. >>> >>> Then there are many stalwarts who consider them as amshas.What > do we >>> do then! >>> I feel we have to go back to basics.Also we have to see how they > are >>> used in classical examples.We have to look for pramanas. >>> >> >> [Prafulla] Yes, best way forward then, will be to test the > interpretations offered in case studies (say 50 charts) and reach to > the conclusions. Nothing is conclusive - with so many contradictory > opinions. >> > > Pradeep:This is very true.Next step is definitely in that direction. [Prafulla] - I look forward to read your case studies. > > >>> As you have seen,Shri Rath has been talking with authenticity > that >>> amshaka points to navamshas in the RASHI while amsha is just an > amsha >>> (navamsha chart in his parlance).But i have quoted the relevant >>> shloka from BPHS,proving shri Rath wrong.It was such a clear > shloka >>> without no ambiguity ,no chance of subjective >>> interpretation.VirshamshaKA gathe and Tulamshe where used for the >>> same purpose.What do you say.Should we have to blindly beleive > what >>> we have been beleiving or we may change? >>> >> >> [Prafulla] Yes - I was reading the thread with great interest, but > entire debate was inconclusive - perhaps for preoccupation of you / > Shri Sanjay Rath. I will love to read any case studies with both the > approach - so as to have a conclusive approach. Whenever you find > time and wish to pen in - please do so. It will help many of the > members like us. > > Pradeep:I will be more than gald to do so,If Shri rath is prepared > to do so. > Unlike Shri Narasimha Rao,who gave me all freedom to write in vedic > astrology list,shri Rath a knowledgable scholar did not allow my > posts to get published in Sohamsa.I feel this is not politics to > declare constitutional emergency and curtail freedom of expression. > We will see if shri Rath is prepared.He had challenged Raoji in the > past.I am no man to challenge the scholar in shri Rath.I know my > limitations.But i can go for a honest debate. > [Prafulla] Well - I can not comment on the position taken by Shri Sanjay Rath as an individual or as moderator of Sohamsa. I am not student with SJC - so I may not know their official position. But I am sure - you may post the mail on SJC forums, inviting him for discussion. Well I must add here that - Shri KN Rao also uses D9 chart as independent one with aspects / conj etc. Have you got an opportunity to clarify with him on this? There are many more scholars - who have their opinion - from their experience and perhaps with the large sample of case studies. If I remember - my interaction with Late Santhanam. He also used D9 as independent chart. I presume - they all can not be wrong. and if at all they are also collectively wrong then - we all students are in serious trouble. > >>> It is upto you to choose your path and your views are respected >>> too.But we have to say - inspite of clear references in > Shastras,i >>> would like follow what i want. >>> >> >> [Prafulla] Of course. Each one of us have either evolved our > reading model or are still exploring. > > Pradeep:True it can be who is at at a lower level or perhaps you in > the evolutionary ladder.We do not know.Let us respect each other. > >> [Prafulla] - Of course. Jyotish scholars must respect others. It is nothing to do with superiority or inferiority; but a process of exploration. > >>> Do you know why contemporary Jyotishis were interpreting swamsha > in >>> a different way?.They ignored the first statement from > Parashara - >>> Meshadi RashiGE swamshe. >> >> [Prafulla] Well - my sanskri knowledge is poor. and with this > constraint - I rely on commentaries. Can you please elaborate the > interpretation of Swamsha (whenever you may find time). > > Pradeep:For Swamsha -pls see the previous mail to Chandrashekhar > ji.I have also disagreed with Raojis views.I have not learned > Sanskrit either.My grandparents were having good command.May be with > their blessings , and the blessings of the Gurus who have been > guiding me,i am able to understand a bit. > [Prafulla] - I will read the thread again. Rather - I will wait for the case studies, as mere theories make little sense to my small mind. I will rather learn from its application. >> >>> >>> If basics are not taken seriously,one will never get it >>> right.Ofcourse we can build our own theories and proliferate.But > as >>> they say we cannot fool all the people all the time. >>> Truth alone can withstand the Tests of TIME. >>> >> [Prafulla] Very true. But why would anyone like to fool others, in > his astro pursuits. It may be our individual / collective fallacy to > interpret many things incorrectly, but I do not think that intention > of any jyotish scholar can be put to any subjective questioning. > > Pradeep:Satish ji has explained one part.I agree that we all are in > search of Truth.But we have to use the word fool,when somebody can > understand that there is an error in their veiw and still is not > prepared to accept.For eg.Vrishamsha''KA'' gathe and Tulamshe.If > shri Rath is not changing his view after this -what can we call such > an approach.Can you pls check with him on this. > >> [Prafulla] I do not mind approaching any scholar with genuine question (whether I know the gentleman or not) - but only, when I have my own interpretation. To me basics in jyotish has no place for contradictions. If any interpretation has variance amongst sages / astrologers - then it is not the basics. I do not understand, why Shri Sanjay Rath's opinion has become the subject of discontentment. There are so many schloars - we may read into what Shri Kn Rao / Late Santhanam / Late BV Raman or many others have said in the context. and as most students do in the journey - take the popular view (unless contrary can be displayed with examples ..not mere theories). >>> Jyotish does not need vijayadas pradeep or Chandrashekhar ji or >>> Prafulla ji or Sreenadh ji or Shri Rath to support it. It is like >>> Fire and no one can corrupt it. >> >> [Prafulla] Very true. I personally feel that these > village/downtown astrologers know far superior jyotish application - > than most of the internet / modern authors. >> > > Pradeep:Thanks >>> >>> Kindly go through the BPHS and re-read the shlokas.D1 is not a > chart >>> as per Mahamuni parashara.D1 is one Rashi.It is upto you to > decide >>> on whom to Trust - Mahamuni Parashara or other Jyotish souls. >>> But even if we repeat 1000 times with the support of 15,000 > people, >>> and write 1000 articles - it can never match the power of > Parasharas >>> definiton on what the first division is.There will come a day > when >>> Jyotish students will go back to basics.Let Lord show us the > Light. >> >> [Prafulla] Well - I am not competent to comment on Parashar, but > for sure - most sages do not agree in terms of interpretations on > most of the things. So who is superior or inferior? >> > Pradeep:Same with me too.But atleast regarding basics -What is a > Rashi,what is a Varga,How they have to be understood -we need to > have agreement right.Else is it possible to read english with two > sets of alphabets. > [Prafulla] - Well, I agree in terms of approach. But even if scholars do not agree - there can still be journey; and at some stage - people meet again at the same root - they started from. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ >> >>> , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Sreenadh ji >>>> >>>> I have also observed many jyotish stalwarts using navamsa chart >>> (along with other D charts). Now how to assess D9 charts - can > be >>> perspective. But - as most authors say - just like D1 chart. >>>> >>>> I request members to share their experience. >>>> >>>> regards / Prafulla Gang >>>> http://www.prafulla.net >>>> >>>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to >>> be taken seriously. " >>>> ************************************************ >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> sreesog@ >>>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:56:49 -0000 >>>>> >>>>> Re: Why Navamsa Chart is so important? >>>>> >>>>> Dear Krishna ji, >>>>> ==> >>>>>> I too to the view that Navamsa chart is >>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. >>>>> <== >>>>> * There is not Navamsa " chart " , but only Navamsa. Navamsa > chart >>> is >>>>> not as important as Rasi chart and it can never be, because it > is >>>>> only an amsa. But yes, it is more important than other amsas > due >>> to >>>>> the prior said reasons. >>>>> ==> >>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>>>> strength of a planet? >>>>> <== >>>>> * Because the quality of earth determines the strength of the >>>>> plant. This is applicable to all amsas as per their importance. >>>>> ==> >>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>>> <== >>>>> * No, it is not allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa. > (There >>> is >>>>> no navamsa 'chart'.) >>>>> >>>>> ==> >>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as > if >>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>>> <== >>>>> * No, when planets have sambandha in Navamsa, it only means >>> that. >>>>> When they have sombandha in Rasi, it only means that. It is >>> wrong to >>>>> mix the two. >>>>> ==> >>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>>> <== >>>>> * No, Yogas should not be looked in Navamsa 'chart'. But yes >>> yoga in >>>>> Navamsa (not navamsa 'chart') can be taken yoga. Because it is >>> the >>>>> same principles as used in Rasi that are used to predict the >>> result >>>>> in Amsas as well - But Aspect(Drishti) and houses are not >>> applicable >>>>> to amsas. Both Aspect(Drishti) and Houses should be considered > in >>>>> Rasi chart itself. Any reference in ancient texts about aspect > or >>>>> houses essentially mean that they are referring to Rasi chart. >>>>> Love, >>>>> Sreenadh >>>>> >>>>> , Krishnamurthy Seetharama >>>>> <krishna_1998@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Kolachina ji, >>>>>> >>>>>> It was interesting to read your comments on importance of the >>>>>> Navamsa chart. I too to the view that Navamsa chart > is >>>>>> as important as Rasi chart. This is based on my experience so >>>>>> far reading charts. However, I have still not understood what >>>>>> are the fundamental reasons for a varga chart being so >>>>>> important. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Why strength of a planet is Navamsa determines the overall >>>>>> strength of a planet? >>>>>> - Why it is allowed to consider aspects in Navamsa chart like >>>>>> aspects in a Rasi chart? >>>>>> - Why sambandha of planets in Navamsa chart can be treated as > if >>>>>> the planets have a sambandha in Rasi chart? >>>>>> - Why yogas should be looked at in navamsa chart as well? >>>>>> >>>>>> By looking at the kind of importance given to Navamsa chart, > it >>>>>> appears that the Rasi chart and Navamsa chart make up two > equal >>>>>> halves representing the native. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no doubts about the importance of Navamsa Chart. What I >>>>>> would like to know is why Navamsa gains such an importance? > What >>>>>> are the fundamental reasons? After all it is one of many varga >>>>>> charts! >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Krishna >>>>>> >>>>>> --- Satya Sai Kolachina <skolachi@> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Sri Pradeep and Sri Chandrasekhar, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have been following this thread on karakamsa and both of >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> contributions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I whole-heartedly appreciate both of you for your valuable >>>>>>> inputs >>>>>>> you are providing to the astrological community. I would like >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> share my opinion (through my own experience). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Considering Karakamsa from either Rasi or Navamsa chart alone >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> probably leads to erroneous results, as I found both the >>>>>>> approaches >>>>>>> working. I see the point Pradeep is making as very valuable; >>>>>>> at the >>>>>>> same time I am not against using Navamsa chart as separate >>>>>>> chart (of >>>>>>> course without losing the context of the Rasi chart), since >>>>>>> any of >>>>>>> the varga charts will not give independent results if the > Rasi >>>>>>> chart >>>>>>> is ignored, as they themselves do not exist if the Rasi chart >>>>>>> doesn't exist. In fact Sri KN Rao also mentioned in several >>>>>>> occassions in many of his articles and books that yogas > viewed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the Rasi chart should also exist in the Navamsa chart for >>>>>>> confirming >>>>>>> the results. If we do not see the Navamsa chart as a separate >>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>> how can we see the yogas therein? For the purpose of checking >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> yogas, Yuti and Veekshana (conjunction and aspects) in the >>>>>>> navamsa >>>>>>> chart make sense. This kind of yuti or veekshana should be >>>>>>> considered on a hypothetical level (as mutual influence at > the >>>>>>> amsha level) rather than being within a 30 deg. span. of > Rasi. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Take an example. If a planet is exlated or in own house in > the >>>>>>> rasi >>>>>>> chart and attains debilitation in the Navamsa chart, it is >>>>>>> condiered >>>>>>> as weakening of the actual strength shown in the Rasi. Why is >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> considered so? It is considered like that because, even > though >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> planet is within its own or exlated rasi, still its >>>>>>> positioning >>>>>>> within that particular sector (here navamsa) has weakened it; >>>>>>> means, >>>>>>> within its own rasi, this particular sector is the weakest >>>>>>> point for >>>>>>> the planet within the strongest rasi; hence it loses its >>>>>>> strength >>>>>>> considerably. This means there is a gradation of strengths > for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> planet from first navamsa to the last navamsa. The navamsa >>>>>>> position >>>>>>> of a planet, thus indicates its refined placement within the >>>>>>> rasi. >>>>>>> In fact, Sri KN Rao also gives equal weightage to both the >>>>>>> Rasi and >>>>>>> Navamsa placement of a planet. If a planet is weak in one of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> that means half the weightage is lost. We may not give the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> level of treatment to other vargas as we give to Navamsa; but >>>>>>> Navamsa is as important as the Rasi; to the extent that it > can >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> viewed as an independent chart (to confirm the promise given >>>>>>> by the >>>>>>> rasi chart). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Without a confirmation of Navamsa chart, yogas in the rasi >>>>>>> chart >>>>>>> alone cannot and will not give expected results; I have >>>>>>> observed >>>>>>> this phenomenon in several charts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My own experience is; I have Chandra and Sukra both in the >>>>>>> 12th >>>>>>> house from Karakamsa in the Navamsa chart (not in the rasi >>>>>>> chart >>>>>>> with the rasi of karakamsa considering as the karakamsa >>>>>>> lagna). I am >>>>>>> a deep devotee of Goddess Parvathi (represented by Chandra) >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Goddess Lakshmi (represented by Sukra). If the karakamsa is >>>>>>> brought >>>>>>> to the Rasi chart, this cannot be explained. The sequence of >>>>>>> my life >>>>>>> events are better explained only if I consider karakamsa > lagna >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the navamsa chart; I am not discounting Pradeep's opinion >>>>>>> here; I am >>>>>>> just saying that both approaches need to be considered on the >>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>> and a composite opinion be formed, as Sri KN Rao always says. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the other hand, considering the specific rasi in the Rasi >>>>>>> chart >>>>>>> that holds karakamsa as the karakamsa lagna, my Sukra is in >>>>>>> the 4th >>>>>>> house indicating my possession of a nice beautiful house, and >>>>>>> education/skills in arts (in addition to other traditional >>>>>>> education). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am bringing this to both your knowledge only to summarize >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> both your theories give results; but not necessarily in >>>>>>> isolation of >>>>>>> the other. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for all your contribution. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Satya S Kolachina >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> , Chandrashekhar >>>>>>> <chandrashekhar46@> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Pradeep, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can not comment on views of either Sanjay or K. N. Rao. >>>>>>> First >>>>>>> there is >>>>>>>> no difference in the meaning of Amsha and Amshaka though it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> perhaps >>>>>>>> being confused. It also needs to be remembered that in >>>>>>> astrological >>>>>>>> translations many a times words are to be understood in the >>>>>>> context that >>>>>>>> they used. So we find Parashara mentioning karakamsha and >>>>>>> Swamsha >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> alternate lines (almost) while indicating the results of >>>>>>> occupation of >>>>>>>> Karakamsha by Sun etc. and many other places in karakamsha >>>>>>> adhyaaya. >>>>>>>> This does not mean he is speaking about two different >>>>>>> parameters. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> think if any Sanskrit scholar who is also well versed in >>>>>>> interpretation >>>>>>>> of astrological texts will confirm this contention of mine >>>>>>> if he >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> watching this discussion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you want my personal opinion, I think that the results >>>>>>> indicated on >>>>>>>> the basis of Karakamsha without reference to the potential >>>>>>> promised by >>>>>>>> the rasi chart and the strength derived by the grahas in >>>>>>> rasi >>>>>>> chart, >>>>>>>> through the Navamsha chart, are not likely to materialize. I >>>>>>> hope >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> opinion of mine does not create a big storm in the >>>>>>> discussion on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> list. But this is my personal opinion, for whatever it is >>>>>>> worth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Take care, >>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> vijayadas_pradeep wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Chandrashekhar ji and Respected members >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Shri Sanjay Rath clearly says ,Amshaka is pointing to the >>>>>>> Rashi >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha.He also says,Karakamsha has >>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> meaning ,while Karakamsha KA has another meaning. >>>>>>>>> Chandrashekhar jis view is Amshaka is not pointing to the >>>>>>> Rashi >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> which a graha is having amsha. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now Chandraekhar jis view is prudent as there are some >>>>>>> shlokas >>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> shri Rath somehow has overlooked,contradicting his view >>>>>>> point. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I respect shri Rath ,but i have to tell this.Sometimes the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> answer and >>>>>>>>> explanations given by shri Rath are not preceded by proper >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> === message truncated === >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > ___________________ >>> _ >>>>> ______________ >>>>>> Be a PS3 game guru. >>>>>> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at >>>>> Games. >>>>>> http://videogames./platform?platform=120121 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Dear Satish ji > > Prafulla ji, > > You said >> > [Prafulla] Very true. But why would anyone like to > fool others, in his astro pursuits. It may be our > individual / collective fallacy to interpret many > things incorrectly, but I do not think that intention > of any jyotish scholar can be put to any subjective > questioning> >> > > I don't think the intent would be to fool. But > presented with a chart and not being able to explain > the event, people tend to create new parameters. > D-charts is so nice it can explain away any event. I > am convinced with D-charts one can fit any event in > any chart. There are many parameters even in rashi. > Take arudhs, different lagnas, take it from lagna, > arudh lagna, karaka lagna,etc., then add to it > D-charts well that leads to confusion. But once one > has traversed that path of after the fact explaining, > one is stuck in the path. How can anyone who has > written books and articles on this falacy ever get out > of it. When one says something often enough one starts > beleiving in it. [Prafulla] - Well - You have raised a very important issue. If we take multiple parameters, then almost each planet becomes candidate for any event. So matching past events becomes very easy - but predictive abilities dilutes as to trace the candidate for the event. I have always believed that - if the rules can not be applied reasonably consistently in isolation - then it is meaningless - no matter - who is saying about this. We need nto be prejudiced with the author or sage; but must be conbcerned about its application. Yes - any jyotish principles must be applied for it to be counted upon for prediction and such test must not be coloured with " n " variables. > > Put a chart for prediction and see the fun.I will be > surprised if people who propose these parameters even > use them. it makes a great story for articles. Fills > up pages too. Just imagine if you can put up 4 > D-charts instead of one rashi chart, more pages in a > book. > [Prafulla] well - at times - jyotish with all those shloka business reach to the point that, tossing the coin for result may also give the correct prediction..so why complicate the mind/ego/destiny/karma and play with the life of the natives. regards / Prafulla Gang http://www.prafulla.net " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " ************************************************ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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