seeking guidance on a real life conflict

[Guest guest]

Dear Sundarji

Thank you very much for the information. In fact I have gone through some

articles by Sri prasads erialised by Swathi. these articles described his

experiences while servinf as an IAS officer. I read only few and missed

many. Are you referring to these articles or you are referring to another

book by him? I was not aware that his articles are available in book form. I

will try to con gyan publishing house.

 

pranaams

Podury

 

 

 

 

On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Sunder Hattangadi <sunderhwrote:

 

>

>

> Sorry, I forgot to write the author's name: P.V.R.K. Prasad (b. 1941)

> served as Executive officer 1968-1971).

>

> S.

>

> advaitin <advaitin%40>, " Sunder

> Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote:

> >

> > advaitin <advaitin%40>, vrsarma

> podury <rpodury@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > > Every seeker passes through

> > > your stage.

> > > I am happy to share a few thoughts with a sincere seeker

> > >

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative

> Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the

> 1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his

> serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book

> " When I Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008]

> >

> > How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis he

> faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book.

> >

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Sunder

> >

>

>

>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote:

>

In fact I have gone through some

> articles by Sri prasads erialised by Swathi. these articles described his

> experiences while servinf as an IAS officer. I read only few and missed

> many. Are you referring to these articles or you are referring to another

> book by him? I was not aware that his articles are available in book form. I

> will try to con gyan publishing house.

>

 

Namaste,

 

The author himself has translated the series and published them in book

form.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

advaitin , " Sunder Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative

Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the

1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his

serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book " When I

Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008]

>

> How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis

he faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book.

>

 

 

Thanks for mentioning 'nAham kartA'. In fact, this is a verse of

Sri.MadhvacAharaya in His Gita tAtparya. The full verse is like this:

 

nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h|

taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa|

tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH |

karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA ||

 

Translation:

 

" I am not the doer, Shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His

worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise.

That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His

recurring grace. If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit

to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. "

 

 

Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I

know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is

depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. That

attitude is possible to implement in one's life because the Dvaita doctrine

treats this world is quite real, Parabrahman Hari is quite real, He is

svatantra (independent reality), His grace is real and must for everything to

happen in this world etc etc.

 

The original poster's conflict in life is not applicable to PVRK Prasad's case,

because as per the original poster's own admission, his conflict is due to the

attitude as taught by the advaita that this entire world is mithya, Ishavara is

not real but Nirguna brahman as seen (or superimposed) with adjunct by jIva etc

etc.

 

I feel discussing about P.V.R.K Prasad and his solution for the conflict is not

according to Advaita " as taught by Adi Shankara " and the objective of this list.

Let's keep that in perspective.

 

Regards,

Srinivas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

[Guest guest]

I feel discussing about P.V.R.K Prasad and his solution for the conflict is

not according to Advaita " as taught by Adi Shankara " and the objective of

this list. Let's keep that in perspective.

 

 

praNAms Sri Srinivas prabhuji

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

Kindly dont make lose comments like this...Shankara never ever belittle the

bhagavad bhakti & Ishwara sharaNAgati...You are talking & quoting shankara

as if there is absolutely no place for Ishwara KaruNa & IshvarAnugraha

mOksha in advaita...But that is not the case prabhuji...Do you know who

said the following :

 

 

avidyAvasthAyAM kAryakAraNa saMghAtAvivekadarshinO avidyAtimirAndhasya

sataH parasmAdAtmanaHkarmAdhyakshAt sarvabhutAdhivAsAt sAkshiNaH chetayituH

IshwarAt tadanujnayA katrutva bhOktrutva lakshaNasya saMsArasya

siddhihi...tadanugraha hetukenaiva cha vijnAnena

mOkshasiddhirbhavitumarhati..

 

 

Anyway, be ready for Sri Sadananda prabhuji's clarification on this

topic...

 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

 

 

bhaskar

 

 

[Guest guest]

PranAms.

Please note only advaita can complete bhakti.  

Your views on advaita and bhakti are unfortunately incorrect, and hence what you

are suggesting is miscontrued.

 

I have written about this at length before:

 

 

http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/03/ishwara-and-advaita.html

http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2007/09/does-advaita-consider-ishwara-real-or.ht\

ml

http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/04/ishwara-and-brahman.html

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

 

--- On Thu, 4/16/09, Srinivas Kotekal <kots_p wrote:

 

 

Srinivas Kotekal <kots_p

Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict

advaitin

Thursday, April 16, 2009, 6:05 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

" I am not the doer, Shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His

worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise.

That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His

recurring grace. If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit

to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. "

 

Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I

know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is

depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. That

attitude is possible to implement in one's life because the Dvaita doctrine

treats this world is quite real, Parabrahman Hari is quite real, He is svatantra

(independent reality), His grace is real and must for everything to happen in

this world etc etc. 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Srinivas Kotekal " <kots_p wrote:

>

>> Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I

know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is

depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine.

 

Srinivas - PraNAms

 

Since I do not know Mr. Prasad, we take your word. We respect your opinion of

Shree Prasad. But the rest of your mail is not a reflection of a member of

advaitin list for such a long time. You have just proved by your statement the

famous sloka of Avadhuuta gita, which is the very first sloka.

 

Iswaraanugraat eva pumsaam advaita vaasanaa|

mahadbhayaparitraaNaat vipraaNaam upajaayate||

 

Through the grace of God alone, the desire for non-duality arises in wise men to

save them from the great fear.

 

Shankaraachaarya, the greatest advaitin, has composed the most beautiful bhakti

slokas; one every God imaginable.

 

It is clear that Bhakti is not sole property a dvaitin philosophy. For advaitin

along with jnaana, bhakti as well as all yogas and saadhanaas are part of

growing up - for chitta suddhi, chitta ekaagrata, chitta viShaalata and chitta

nairmalyam.

 

Saadhana and shaadhya is part of duality until one can fully establish oneself

in the understanding of turiiyam that scriptures point out.

 

The ultimate bhakti is complete surrender - where in that bhakti, the bhakta

himself dissolves into the alter of Bhakti. Any love demands unity – including

the mandane love between husband and wife- any divergence in thinking causes

problem. Dvaita is recognized as the fundamental problem anywhere.

 

Bhakti is devotion or love for higher and one loves one self more than anything

else - as discussed elaborately by Yagnavalkya in his discourse to his wife,

Maitreye in Br. Up.

 

All actions are done by prakRiti itself. In our ego-centric attitude we

superimpose in ourselves the kartRitva bhaava and bhoktRitva bhaava - hence

Krishna has emphasize again that you are never an actor - prakRityaiva ca

karmaaNi kriyamaanaani sarvasaH - yaH pasyati saH pasyati - who sees this

clearly alone see correctly. Hence true surrender involves surrender of the

agency of action too – and that happens only with understanding that I am

akartaa and abhoktaa and in my presence only the prakRiti does all the actions,

as elaborated in Gita by Bhagavaan. You may have your explanations for these;

but we are not interested.

 

Advaita includes dvaita until that unreality of dvaita at absolute level is

understood -when one recognizes the 'a' in front of dvaita - as Krishna say

pasyan sRinvan .. are done by indriyaas with the blessing of chaitanya swaruupa

who himself is akartaa.

 

Fear comes from dvaita only not advaita as you enjoy everyday in the deep sleep

state where you alone are without anyone bothering you, including advaitin list

members. dvitiiyadhvai bhayam bhavati-says Br. Up. the dvaita causes fear. This

is echoed in Tai. Up also.

 

Arjuna saw vishwaruupa Brahman but still afraid since there is a seer-seen

duality.

 

The surrender to Vishnu will remover the fear alright that involves the

dissolution of dvaita - recognition of advaita as the ultimate truth where the

bhakta merges with his deity. deity-duality delusion gets resolved in the

ultimate bhakti. Until then it is only idea of surrender not real surrender by

bhakta - as people chant daily - tan man dhan subkuch teraahai with all

devotion- as just verbal statements of threading to surrender, since he is ready

to again to do the same aarati next day, since he has not surrendered himself

previous day. True prapatti or sharanaagati can occur only once with the

avakening of advaitic understanding where he is no more and merged himself with

the Lord or become one with the Lord, where there is no more duality to

surrender again. That my friend is true bhakti and as Dattatreya emphasizes in

his very first sloka - that comes with the grace of the Lord only.

 

So please do not make statements that contradict pure bhakti. In the ultimate

love, the lover and loved become one - adviata. That is jnaana as well as bhakti

- and Krishna says jnaani is my greatest bhakta.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " kuntimaddisada " <kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

> advaitin , " Srinivas Kotekal " <kots_p@> wrote:

> >

> >> Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya.

I know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book

is depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine.

>

 

>

> So please do not make statements that contradict pure bhakti. In the ultimate

love, the lover and loved become one - adviata. That is jnaana as well as bhakti

- and Krishna says jnaani is my greatest bhakta.

>

>

 

Namaste,

 

Thanks Sadaji for a powerful statement.My idea of a 'staunch Dvaitin' was that

of one initiated into the Mahavakya " atat tvam asi " *

[You are not That (Brahman)], resulting in the nididhyasanam of " nAhaM

brahmAsmi " [i am not That].

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

* For an advaitin response to the said Mahavakya as quoted in Dvaita literature,

please refer to:

 

 

http://www.advaitin.net/Subrahmanian/The_Flawless_Advaitic_Teaching_of_Tat_Tvam_\

Asi.pdf

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

>

> Dear members of the advaitin list, 

> I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier

exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about

posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire

list, so here it is.

 

Pranams Sri Sankarji,

Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago

when I seemed to be facing a similar situation.

1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life

 

I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are `life

in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within oneself

(self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the self as a

child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to re-discover

one's self.

 

On analysis, the life in the career is an adjunct to life in the family. Career

provides the `means' to sustain, nourish and serve the family. Career and family

are thus intertwined and mutually supportive. Career provides the funds, social

position and community support, to help look after the family. In the normal

course, career provides an outlet for one's physical and mental capabilities;

family provides an outlet for one's emotional propensities.

 

Thus both family and career form the basis for what is called `duty'. This

concept is called `dharma' in spiritual language.

 

This duty is a sine qua non, a necessity, for fulfilling the important

objectives of this life. Effective performance of this duty ensures that one's

duty in life is fulfilled effectively. Through a reasonably successful career

one contributes to the happiness of family. This is the greatest `social

service' for a householder or `grihasta'.

 

As a student and a bachelor, I had a particular view of life. But the moment I

married, my whole view of life changed.

 

Career and family together is what Sri Krishna, in my humble opinion, calls

`Para Dharma'.

 

2.0 Self and Atma Dharma

 

However, as you have discovered, and as all our scriptures point out, there is

`Self'. This is the important aspect. As an individual, my own `Self' is

extremely important. If this `Self' is not in a state of balance, in harmony,

and at peace, nothing is possible in the outside world. A confused and disturbed

person cannot fulfill his duty in the world.

 

A person who is disturbed or confused finds it difficult to perform his duty

effectively in his career and hence in his family. A person in this condition

experiences `conflict'. This conflict is essentially between himself and the

world.

 

How does one get rid of this confusion or conflict? The answer is clearly given

by Sri Krishna in the Gita. It is called `Swa Dharma'. The term `Swa' means

`Atma'.

 

One has a duty to the Self or Atma just as one has a duty to career and family.

 

The duty to the Self is simply to be able to relate to the Self or Atma. Most of

us in our preoccupations with career and family tend to simply forget to relate

to the Self; sometimes even to remember the Self. In some cases one may not be

even aware of the existence of the Self.

 

In earlier times it was a tradition to induct or initiate a young person into

the awareness of the Self through a ceremony called `Upanayanam'. With this the

initiate moved into the custody of a teacher and entered formal education called

`Brahmacharya'. In this process he was not only taught a variety of secular

skills but also a number of spiritual skills and knowledge. This prepared the

initiate to face his professional and family life with considerable equanimity.

 

In modern times this process of initiation has lost its meaning and education

does not have an iota of spiritual knowledge or skills.

 

This could be the reason for so many of us feeling a sense of conflict with

ourselves. The key to the elimination of this feeling of conflict, frustration

and helplessness is to rediscover the Self or Atma.

 

3.0 Spiritual Development an Anchor.

 

All spiritual practices are beneficial for this purpose. In my case, I started

with worship and prayer to a personal deity. Slowly I progressed to the Gita,

fortunately at the hands of Swami Chinmayananda. I got introduced to Swami

Vivekananda and through his writings to all forms of Yoga. Marriage introduced

me to the Puranas, to the concept of the Divine Mother and to pilgrimages. I

discovered Sri Ramakrishna and got introduced to the concept of Sadhana and Japa

and Dhyana, to the possibility of the God Principle being available in human

form. Through this I became interested in Advaita and the Unity of Godhead.

 

It was somewhere at this point that I found myself increasingly sensitive to

problems at work. This automatically reflected in tensions at home.

 

But somehow, through this process, Divinity seemed to come recurrently to my

rescue in the form of my Guru. Holding on to His Feet, I felt anchored and safe,

while the storms of all sorts of problems seemed to be waging in the world

around me.

 

Today, after nearly a decade and a half after retirement, I cannot quite say

there are no conflicts. But increasingly there is a feeling of unity, of being a

witness, of appreciation that all is Divine and that that very Divinity is my

own Self.

 

4.0 In Conclusion

 

I sincerely appreciate your feelings. There is no standard panacea for the

problems. The world continues to struggle to correct its mistakes and seems to

compound them sometimes with more mistakes.

 

But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self.

Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of

your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away.

 

In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your

profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best.

 

That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call

it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you.

 

People like me, at the end of this mortal existence, depend on you and your

generation to care for the world, to uphold Dharma, to live an honest and

dedicated life, to foster families, to guide the future generations.

 

I was a little hesitant to post this extremely naïve and simple note on the

thread. I toyed with the idea that I would send it to you off list. Then I

remembered that almost five years ago when I had hesitantly joined this list, on

a similar matter, I had written to Prof VK. Like Dennisji to you, he immediately

advised me to put it on the list. I greatly benefited from the comments. So I am

posting it on the list in the hope that I will also perhaps receive much in the

form of help.

 

Please feel free to ask any further questions.

 

Warm regards and God Bless

Mohan

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

We have taken this birth with certain Prarabdha. What we have to do is only

Duties, as per the Dharmas prescribed in the Spiritual Texts. Do them in the

name of God, so that Karma becomes Karmayoga. Take the results as Prasada from

God.

If you can do this daily, there will be no problem.

Yes, duties will vary from person to person and from time to time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With Best Regards,

 

N.S. Parasuraman

 

 http://in.geocities.com/parasu41/index.html

 

 

--- On Sat, 18/4/09, smnm1010 <smnm1010 wrote:

 

 

smnm1010 <smnm1010

Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict

advaitin

Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 9:04 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin@ s.com, " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1@ ...> wrote:

>

> Dear members of the advaitin list, 

> I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier

exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about

posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire

list, so here it is.

 

Pranams Sri Sankarji,

Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago

when I seemed to be facing a similar situation.

1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life

 

I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are `life

in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within oneself

(self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the self as a

child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to re-discover

one's self.

 

On analysis, the life in the career is an adjunct to life in the family. Career

provides the `means' to sustain, nourish and serve the family. Career and family

are thus intertwined and mutually supportive. Career provides the funds, social

position and community support, to help look after the family. In the normal

course, career provides an outlet for one's physical and mental capabilities;

family provides an outlet for one's emotional propensities.

 

Thus both family and career form the basis for what is called `duty'. This

concept is called `dharma' in spiritual language.

 

This duty is a sine qua non, a necessity, for fulfilling the important

objectives of this life. Effective performance of this duty ensures that one's

duty in life is fulfilled effectively. Through a reasonably successful career

one contributes to the happiness of family. This is the greatest `social

service' for a householder or `grihasta'.

 

As a student and a bachelor, I had a particular view of life. But the moment I

married, my whole view of life changed.

 

Career and family together is what Sri Krishna, in my humble opinion, calls

`Para Dharma'.

 

2.0 Self and Atma Dharma

 

However, as you have discovered, and as all our scriptures point out, there is

`Self'. This is the important aspect. As an individual, my own `Self' is

extremely important. If this `Self' is not in a state of balance, in harmony,

and at peace, nothing is possible in the outside world. A confused and disturbed

person cannot fulfill his duty in the world.

 

A person who is disturbed or confused finds it difficult to perform his duty

effectively in his career and hence in his family. A person in this condition

experiences `conflict'. This conflict is essentially between himself and the

world.

 

How does one get rid of this confusion or conflict? The answer is clearly given

by Sri Krishna in the Gita. It is called `Swa Dharma'. The term `Swa' means

`Atma'.

 

One has a duty to the Self or Atma just as one has a duty to career and family.

 

The duty to the Self is simply to be able to relate to the Self or Atma. Most of

us in our preoccupations with career and family tend to simply forget to relate

to the Self; sometimes even to remember the Self. In some cases one may not be

even aware of the existence of the Self.

 

In earlier times it was a tradition to induct or initiate a young person into

the awareness of the Self through a ceremony called `Upanayanam' . With this the

initiate moved into the custody of a teacher and entered formal education called

`Brahmacharya' . In this process he was not only taught a variety of secular

skills but also a number of spiritual skills and knowledge.. This prepared the

initiate to face his professional and family life with considerable equanimity.

 

In modern times this process of initiation has lost its meaning and education

does not have an iota of spiritual knowledge or skills.

 

This could be the reason for so many of us feeling a sense of conflict with

ourselves. The key to the elimination of this feeling of conflict, frustration

and helplessness is to rediscover the Self or Atma.

 

3.0 Spiritual Development an Anchor.

 

All spiritual practices are beneficial for this purpose. In my case, I started

with worship and prayer to a personal deity. Slowly I progressed to the Gita,

fortunately at the hands of Swami Chinmayananda. I got introduced to Swami

Vivekananda and through his writings to all forms of Yoga. Marriage introduced

me to the Puranas, to the concept of the Divine Mother and to pilgrimages. I

discovered Sri Ramakrishna and got introduced to the concept of Sadhana and Japa

and Dhyana, to the possibility of the God Principle being available in human

form. Through this I became interested in Advaita and the Unity of Godhead.

 

It was somewhere at this point that I found myself increasingly sensitive to

problems at work. This automatically reflected in tensions at home.

 

But somehow, through this process, Divinity seemed to come recurrently to my

rescue in the form of my Guru. Holding on to His Feet, I felt anchored and safe,

while the storms of all sorts of problems seemed to be waging in the world

around me.

 

Today, after nearly a decade and a half after retirement, I cannot quite say

there are no conflicts. But increasingly there is a feeling of unity, of being a

witness, of appreciation that all is Divine and that that very Divinity is my

own Self.

 

4.0 In Conclusion

 

I sincerely appreciate your feelings. There is no standard panacea for the

problems. The world continues to struggle to correct its mistakes and seems to

compound them sometimes with more mistakes.

 

But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self.

Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of

your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away.

 

In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your

profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best.

 

That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call

it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you.

 

People like me, at the end of this mortal existence, depend on you and your

generation to care for the world, to uphold Dharma, to live an honest and

dedicated life, to foster families, to guide the future generations.

 

I was a little hesitant to post this extremely naïve and simple note on the

thread. I toyed with the idea that I would send it to you off list. Then I

remembered that almost five years ago when I had hesitantly joined this list, on

a similar matter, I had written to Prof VK. Like Dennisji to you, he immediately

advised me to put it on the list. I greatly benefited from the comments. So I am

posting it on the list in the hope that I will also perhaps receive much in the

form of help.

 

Please feel free to ask any further questions.

 

Warm regards and God Bless

Mohan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter

http://beta.cricket.

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- On Sat, 4/18/09, smnm1010 <smnm1010 wrote:

........

 

But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self.

Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of

your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away.

 

In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your

profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best.

 

That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call

it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you.

------------

 

Shree Mohan - PraNAms

 

You have picturized the sanatana dharma beautifully. Thanks for sharing.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

>

> Pranams Sri Sankarji,

> Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago

when I seemed to be facing a similar situation.

> 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life

>

> I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two.

 

Pranams Sri Mohan-ji,

 

Thank you so much for your wonderful post. It is so simply and sincerely written

that I could connect to it at once. I really appreciate your efforts (and that

of other group members too) to share your wisdom and experience.

 

thanks and regards,

shankar

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Mohan-ji

 

I like your 'three aspects' of life. Some years ago, when I was vacationing in

Wilmington, DE, at my daughter's place, several friends from the University of

Delawere, some of whom were my former students at Pilani, gathered together for

a dinner and after the dinner the conversation centred on a question very

similar to Shankar's question on this thread. When the conversation shifted to

the topic of spirituality as a necessary and integral part of one's continuing

interest, the question was raised: " How do we find time for all the different

interests that we have. We are always short of time " . And then I talked about

how we generally waste our time on several trivial things, like directionless

chatting, standing before the mirror and decorating ourselves, and so on. They

finally pinpointed at my criticism and asked me whether I could apportion the

different interests in terms of daily time to be spent. Finally we agreed on the

following, which, incidentally, takes good care of your 'three aspects of life':

 

Personal attention and family: 3 hours

Food : 2 hours

Professional advancement: 2 hours (On office days, this will be merged with

office work)

Enjoyment: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero)

Socialising: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero)

Buffer: 2 hours. (On Office days, Zero)

Meditation, Worship and Spiritual living: 3 hours. (On Office days, this will be

2 hours)

Sleep: 8 hours.

 

Some individual adjustment may have to be made, depending on the commuting time

to the Office. This adjustment has to be only between the last two items in the

above list.

 

How would you like it?

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

 

 

 

>

> Pranams Sri Sankarji,

> Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago

when I seemed to be facing a similar situation.

> 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life

>

> I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are

`life in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within

oneself (self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the

self as a child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to

re-discover one's self.

[Guest guest]

namaste Bhaskerji,

 

Saashtaanga namaskarams to you.

 

" I must confess here that I am still a vedanti who knows vairAgya

but ONLY on paper "

 

You always hit the hammer on the nail's head properly

 

When there is a slightest disturbance I don't kow where all the vairagya that

has been studied and heard from the teachers vanish!!! only finding a solution

for the problem remains on the surface. E.g a negligible issue at the dining

table - lack of salt or a pinch more.

 

pranams

Lakshmi

 

 

 

 

Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

http://messenger./invite/

 

 

[Guest guest]

praNAm all,

 

Hari Om, Bhaskarji,

 

>

> I dont know how efficacious this middle path would be in the severe onslaught

of saMsAra...I heard somewhere that *there is no half measure in sAdhana* and

rAma & kAma both cannot travel in a same boat etc. etc.

 

The point is well taken. You are right, but it is not a middle path in

the sense of balancing Rama as well as Kama. It is a path dedicated to

chitta shuddhi, one that fades out Kama and fades in Rama, one that is

needed before taking to saMnyAsa. Else, the same person on saMnyAsa

just becomes a veshadhAri, not saMnyAsi. Anyway, you know all that, I

just wanted to clarify that I find concentrating on sAdhana, while not

being more " out into the world " and thereby reducing the " severe

onslaught of saMsAra " better suited for me. This too may be a half

measure, but its the better half of that measure for me.

 

>....I must confess here that I am still a vedanti who knows vairAgya but ONLY

on paper :-))

 

So must I, there's no dispute there. Hence most of us are stepping

through sAdhana cAtushTaya, aren't we.

 

gurorarpaNamastu,

--Praveen R. Bhat

/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known!

[br.Up. 4.5.15] */

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " V. Krishnamurthy " <profvk wrote:

>

> Namaste, Mohan-ji

>

> I like your 'three aspects' of life. >

> Personal attention and family: 3 hours

> Food : 2 hours

> Professional advancement: 2 hours (On office days, this will be merged with

office work)

> Enjoyment: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero)

> Socialising: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero)

> Buffer: 2 hours. (On Office days, Zero)

> Meditation, Worship and Spiritual living: 3 hours. (On Office days, this will

be 2 hours)

> Sleep: 8 hours.

> How would you like it?

> PraNAms to all advaitins.

> profvk

Pranams Prof VK ji,

Thanks very much for your post on Time Budgeting for young people . I am sorry

for the delay in commenting because of some preoccupations ending with casting

my vote today.

 

I was very disinclined to vote because of various problems I perceived in the

world around me. But then, agonizing over it, I recollected that my paternal

grandfather and my father's eldest brother were both very serious Gandhians in

their time and the family had apparently given up lucrative professions and gone

to jail in the 1920s as part of the Non-Co-operation movement. The family had

subsequently struggled hard to survive and it was only in the next generation

that some stability had come. I realized that to exercise this precious

franchise for which so many people had sacrificed so much was a sacred duty and

finally went and voted.

 

I reorganized your time allocations and compared it with my own framework when I

was in my forties. It looks as follows:

 

 

Self in 1979

 

Work 12 hrs ( incl 3hrs commute) ---- nil on holiday

Family 1hr 15 hrs on holiday incl food

Food 2hrs

Sleep 8hrs 8hrs on holiday

Self 1 hr ( mostly ablutions, bath,etc) same on holiday

 

A young working executive finds practically no time for himself on a normal

working day, whether in India or the US. Indeed he may find practically no time

even for family. For all intents and purposes I was what could be called a

`workaholic'. I gradually became more and more irritable and fussy. It took some

remarkable yelling, banging and throwing tantrums by my daughters to bring home

to me that they were in fact missing me . I changed forever and it became a

routine for them to wait for me to wash and change them in the evenings and put

them to bed with a story or two. Holidays were one great romp and we invariably

went out to Juhu beach or to see the latest films. We discovered the Ramakrishna

Mission at Khar and it slowly became a routine to attend the evening lecture at

the Mission on Sundays and then attend the arathi before returning home.

Festival days were great fun at the Mission. That was how my life revolved

around work and family. All professional activities came under work.

 

I am sure your suggestion would have worked well for many of the young people. I

am inclined to feel that if one were to spend all one's time in a Dharmic way

with career and family during our younger years, that itself will take us very

far. I am deeply impressed by Sri Bhaskarji, for example, who seems to manage to

make some of his most enlightening expressions from his workplace. I am also

sure so many variations of this theme must be there right on this list. But I

worry whether it would be correct to seek sharing of that on this list? In fact

I was in two minds whether this message itself should go off-list to you. But

again I thought it might interest someone out there so am sending it.

 

So glad to hear from you and see that you are active as always with your

beautiful translations. One remembers the `Soundarya Lahiri' series of 2004. I

am also so happy that people in your vicinity are benefiting from you

spiritually.

 

Warm regards and God Bless

Mohan

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada

wrote:

> You have picturized the sanatana dharma beautifully. Thanks for sharing.

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Pranams Sri Sadanandaji,

Thanks to you for a beautiful response which I truly value. I continue to ponder

how all this links with the Advaitic approach. When I feel a trifle confident

that I may have some clue I will seek the members' help.

Warm regards and God Bless

Mohan

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

> Pranams Sri Mohan-ji,

> Thank you so much for your wonderful post. It is so simply and sincerely

written that I could connect to ........

thanks and regards,

> shankar

 

Pranams Sri Shankarji,

 

Thanks for your post indicating that you found my message reasonably logical and

interesting. I do hope that the tensions and anxieties you were experiencing

would have substantially abated in the knowledge that what you (and so many of

us) are experiencing is perfectly natural in human life.

 

Your positive response as also the very kind comments of Sri Sadanandaji and

Prof VKji tempt me to try and peel off at least one more layer from the

simplistic and practical ideas contained in the first post.

 

1.0 A Strategy for Living - PurushArtha.

 

What we have been talking of when we refer to `duty to career' and `duty to

family' is actually a strategy for human life.

 

This approach to life is the beautiful guideline given in our scriptures called

`PurushArtha'. It outlines a broad approach to human life. The most important

segment of human society is the `Grihastha'. Students, retired folks and

ascetics form a relatively small segment of society. They are all sustained and

society itself survives on the basis of the efforts and contributions of the

`Grihastha'. As an interesting analogy, in modern times in free societies like

India and the USA, the so-called `middle class' have become the engine for

economic survival and social well being.

 

The concept of the PurushArtha is said to have originated from the Vedas. In

2004, Sri Ken Knightji, an eminent member of this list, and a keen student of

the Vedas had stated that this term originated from the Rig Veda (Post No

23076).

 

The term comprises two words, `Purusha' and `Artha'. The word `Purusha' means

not only the Divine Principle or Brahman, but also the human spirit. The word

`Artha' means not only wealth or value, but also purpose or objective.

 

Thus the concept of `PurushArtha' can be said to indicate `The purpose of human

life'. From a spiritual perspective, it can be said to mean `The purpose of

Divinity'. Human life can thus be conceived as the ultimate expression of Divine

Purpose.

 

PurushArtha is defined as `DharmArtha KAma Moksha'. This aphorism or concise

statement includes the four components of PurushArtha that is, Dharma, Artha,

Kama and Moksha.

 

2.0 Strategic Means I - Duty to Career - Dharmya Artha.

 

Righteous performance in one's career or profession is an important means of

achieving the purpose of life.

`Artha' in this context refers to the economic aspect of life, through which

assets, possessions, wealth and steady flow of money is achieved. In this

process, one is forced to communicate and interact with other people.

Professional life, like every limb of society is a huge network of people.

Interrelationships are critical to helping the network to operate comfortably.

Occasionally flare-ups may occur.

 

What is important is how one carries oneself in this scenario. What is the

context, the framework, in which one should operate?

 

The scriptures indicate this context as `Dharma'. This is generally translated

as `righteousness'. It is, in itself, a subject matter worthy of careful study.

There are many scintillating expositions in this very list on `Dharma'.

 

Thus, when we are talking of `Artha' as a strategic means for fulfilling the

purpose of life, we are talking of `Dharmya Artha' , not just `Artha', that is,

career or profession carried out in an honest manner, following the dictates of

one's conscience rather than the exigencies of the situation.

 

Sri Krishna explains this beautifully when He explains what has come to be

called `Karma Yoga' to Arjuna in the Gita. Sri Krishna seems to anticipate the

tensions and conflict that so many of us face in our career when He states in

3.30:

" Mayi SarvANi KarmANi SanyasyAthAtmachetasa

NirAshir Nirmamo Bhuthwa Yuddhyaswa Vigatajwaraha "

`Renouncing all actions in Me, with thy thought resting on the Self, being free

from hopes, free from selfishness, devoid of fever (anxiety), do thou fight.'

 

In my very first exposure to the Gita, I was blessed to hear Swami

Chinmayananda's brilliant exposition on this stanza and the whole of the Chapter

III in the summer of 1958. It made an everlasting impression on the young

student.

 

A study of `Karma Yoga' will give you an excellent basis for `Dharmya Artha'.

 

3.0 Strategic Means II - Duty to Family - Dharmya Kama.

 

In modern psychology it is said that the human brain operates in two modes. The

left brain focuses on logic, rationality and thought. The right brain is

oriented towards intuition, creativity and feelings. Our scriptures recognize

these two aspects of the human psyche or mind, the rational and the emotional.

 

If `Artha' represents logical thought as largely applicable in one's career,

`KAma' represents the potential for human emotionality. Just as modern

psychology suggests that success comes to the person who balances the left and

right brain functions, in the PurushArtha strategy also, importance is given to

balancing the rational with the emotional potential of the human being. As

career is the means to operate in the realms of thought, the family is the means

to express one's emotions.

 

It is significant that the Vedas do not talk of the `Arthashta' ashrama but call

that phase of life as `Grihastha'. The home is a very important aspect of life

because it allows one's emotional potential to have a free play in a safe and

sacred environment.

 

`KAma' is often described as `lust' or `desire'. There is another meaning (

Monier Williams) that is, `longing for'. KAma can be said to be a `longing for

fulfillment'. This longing for fulfillment or completeness or perfection is a

natural, in-built trait in the human being. Human life is a search for

fulfillment and that motivational impulse is `KAma'.

 

There are three expressions in Sanskrit, `Sphruha', `AkAnksha' and ` KAma'.

`Sphruha' has a touch of envy associated with it. Monier Williams translates it

as `desire, long for, envy'. `AkAnksha' on the other hand seems to imply

`desire, long for, endeavor to gain'. The word `KAma' has a touch of pleasure

and enjoyment.

 

These are natural characteristics of a human being. However, just as one can be

obsessed with wealth no matter what the means is, similarly one can be obsessed

with enjoyment no matter what the means is.

 

The PurushArtha concept prescribes the path of `Dharmya KAma' instead of just

KAma just as it suggests `Dharmya Artha' instead of just `Artha'.

 

Dharmya KAma is that means of fulfilling one's desires which will permit one to

evolve as a human being. That is the basis of family life and seeking the

happiness not of oneself alone but of all members of the family. It sets out the

parameters for one's relationships with spouse, children, parents and other

members of the family.

 

By seeking the fulfillment of family happiness one paves the way to the ultimate

personal happiness called `AnandA'. Dharmya KAma teaches one to forget oneself

in the affection and enjoyment of the family. There is no selfishness here at

all.

 

Devotion to the family is the foundation for devotion to the Divine Principle or

God.

 

4.0 The Strategic Objective - Moksha.

 

Our scriptures define the strategic objective of human life as `Moksha'.

 

The term `Moksha' derives from the same root as `Mukthi' which means freedom.

Freedom from what? The answer is freedom from re-birth. The strategic objective

of human life, considered as the pinnacle of evolution of the soul, is to become

completely free from the possibility of being born again.

 

How is this to be attained? The answer is inbuilt in the term `Moksha' when

considered as a combination of two terms `Moha' (attachment) and `Kshaya'

(destruction). Thus the means of attaining it is said to be the destruction of

attachment.

 

This is a conundrum which is typical of Indian philosophical thought and

discourse. It calls for a great deal of careful analysis to accept that all that

we enjoy and celebrate as `life' with all its commitments, involvements and

consequent attachments, has to be given up one day to achieve the very purpose

of this life. But this apparent contradiction embodies within itself, the need

to learn detachment. It is this attitude of detachment that is cultivated at

every stage (or ashrama) of human life.

 

`Brahmacharya', `Grihastha', `Vanaprastha' and `Sanyasa' are progressive steps

in the cultivation of detachment. Everyone goes through `Brahmacharya'; however,

a small minority of `evolved' humans jumps straight to `Sanyasa' because the

requisite detachment has already been achieved in an earlier life. The majority

of us go through `Grihastha' and `Vanaprastha' before reaching, if at all,

`Sanyasa'.

 

In effect, therefore, after leading a Dharma-based life, after carrying out

one's duties to career and family, one has to give up all attachments. This is

expressed by Sri Krishna in Sloka 66 of Chapter 18, the chapter of the Gita that

deals with `Sanyasa Yoga', when He says :

" Sarva Dharman Parithyajya Mamekam Sharanam Vraja

Aham Tvam Sarva Papebhyo Moksha Ishyami Ma Shucha! "

`Abandoning all righteous duties, seek Me as thy Sole Refuge, I will liberate

thee from all sins; do thou not grieve!'

 

5.0 Conclusion.

 

The PurushArtha concept thus not only gives guidelines for leading life but also

prepares one for the ultimate discovery of Self. Moksha is not only freedom from

the life of career and family but the realization of one's true identity.

 

Strange as it may seem, that identity is itself nothing other than Dharma. The

Self appears in human life as Dharma. Thus Paradharma becomes the stepping stone

for Swadharma.

 

May that Brahman Himself bless you with this discovery!

 

6.0 Some References on the Web :

 

http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/objectives_ram.htm

 

advaitin/message/30424

 

advaitin/message/25140

advaitin/message/23434

 

advaitin/message/23071

advaitin/message/23076

http://members.tripod.com/antibjp/archives/chapter2a.html

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_76.html

http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/sadh/sadh_07.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusharthas

http://www.vmission.org.in/vedanta/articles/4puru.htm

 

Some of the writings may sound different to what I have stated above. But as we

are observing from Sri Ananda Woodji's recent writings on the etymological and

other aspects of our Scriptures many interpretations are possible and there is

always the need to look at these thoughts from the fresh angle of current

experiences. What matters is that by this process you discover your individual

way of looking at it and that will take you to the truth!

 

 

Warm regards and God Bless

Mohan