seeking guidance on a real life conflict

[Guest guest]

Dear members of the advaitin list,

 

 

 

 

 

I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire list, so here it is. I am also appending Dennis-ji’s reply after mine. I would be very grateful to get suggestions and opinions from this group. Thanking you in advance,

 

-shankar

-----------------------

V. Shankar [shankar_v1] Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:56 PMDennis Waite

 

Dear Dennis-ji,

 

I’m not quite sure if I have been able to accurately convey the conflicts that I am going through. But here they are, documented to the best of my communication abilities. I am first giving the background which I feel is necessary to understand the context of my questions which follow after that.

 

 

I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world is illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.

To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company for more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I have never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt to put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.

But in the last few years I have been finding it increasingly difficult to motivate myself at work. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way that doesn’t appeal to me. The factors which motivate most people – earning more money, rising up the corporate ladder, having more influence etc, does not interest me too much. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way that does not appeal to me. One has to constantly prove oneself, be visible, network for the sake of furthering one’s career etc. all of which I find increasingly hard to do. My main motivation on the career front is to earn my living to provide for my family and do justice to what I am being paid for. Hence I find it a source of immense conflict to push myself to do well in something which doesn’t motivate me from inside.

Another parallel happening in my life in the last few years is that I have had this growing intuitive feeling (or inner voice if you may) that the only kind of work that would give me deep satisfaction is one where I am of service to disadvantaged people. Now while I have had a lot of good intentions along these lines in the past, I have done little by way of social service, mainly due to inertia. So my family is understandably skeptical about whether this is just an escapist mindset. I think that’s a fair point. While I also have that fear, in my heart I feel that the increasing unrest in my current job along with growing feelings about the other vocation is part of some divine plan for me, and that I need to play my part by acting on my instincts. As a practical compromise I plan to continue in my current job (putting in my best efforts) and start

exploring in earnest my other interest during my spare time. I am giving myself a few years to wet my feet enough so that I can make an informed decision of what to do next. This does mean that I have to somehow motivate myself in my current job for at least a few more years. But my greatest fear is – what if my “calling†turns out to be a false alarm and that also does not really enthuse me? Where does that leave me? It’s a very scary thought but I don't want to let that detract me from putting in all my efforts.

Lastly the most important factor in my life is that of spirituality which for me influences everything I think and do. Even if all my thinking and actions may not be aligned with what I believe to be the right thing, I tend to automatically go through a quick validation of my thoughts/actions with my evolving “interpretation†of whatever spiritual principles I have read and imbibed over the last 15 years or so. And this does influence my mental analysis, decision making and subsequent actions to a large extent. I have been reading spiritual books of various traditions for many years. But its only in the last couple of years that I have got introduced to advaita which for me feels like the highest truth and its hard to go back to anything else. I still consider myself very much a beginner as far as advaita or indian scriptural knowledge goes.

 

 

Having given this background (thank you if you are still reading J) here are some of the questions/conflicts arising in my mind quite often:

 

 

 

Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest spiritual teachings and the needs of a competitive workplace where you are mostly working towards furthering your own interests and the interests of your company? And all the company really cares about is to make money for itself and its shareholders and beat the competition at that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating. Even furthering my knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to do. The desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from within relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and hence it automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even the slightest bit.

What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in one’s chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that if you lose yourself in the work without caring about the results, excellence will come on its own. It should not be made as a goal otherwise it will be ego-based.

Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you or is it just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to help others. According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one is supposed to ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what are we supposed to act on? Is the right way to “act†simply to follow your instincts faithfully at every step in life and consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your instincts are misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

A general question – How are we supposed to function in day to day life if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

 

I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the time.

 

Thanks and regards,

Shankar

 

-----reply from Dennis-ji--------

 

Dear Shankar-ji,

You have conveyed your problem very well indeed. I am sure that others will have encountered this dilemma and be able to offer suggestions. It is a very real problem as opposed to the many theoretical or academic questions posed on the Advaitin group and I seriously urge you to post it in full there. I say this because it is definitely a ‘Gita problem’ and I am not the best person to respond to one of these. (I have over a dozen different versions in my library but cannot be said to have really studied it in depth.) People such as Profvk and Sadananda in particular will have useful input.

 

This is not the sort of problem to analyze and go over and over in your mind – this will only obscure the issues. It is rather the sort of question that you put on hold for a while and then later pose in silence, following meditation for example. In fact, if you relate to the phrase, it is something that is answered by the heart rather than the mind.

 

The way that you describe it, it does sound as though serving the disadvantaged might be your ‘destiny’. The phrase ‘svadharma’ in the Gita refers to that which you ought to pursue as required to fulfill your own particular destiny (neutralize your saMskAra). Earning lots of money, gaining status etc can never be svadharma – these are the false aims instilled by modern society. I tend to think of ‘career’ in the sense of a car ‘careering’ downhill, out of control! But, as you and the Gita point out, you do have to act. Knowing that the world is mithyA is no excuse for failing to get up in the morning!

 

But, of course, you are nervous at the idea of giving up your job and going into the unknown; this is certainly understandable. I think that the most important thing you should do is follow up the teacher pointers that I gave you. Sign up with one of Swami Dayananda’s disciples and attend classes regularly without fail. There is no question but that gaining Self-knowledge is the single most important thing that you can do. As long as you are doing this and know that you are on a clear path to achieving this, the other issues can assume lesser importance. This need not conflict with your existing job as long as your priorities are clear and the job does not demand too much of your time. You may know (or if not will be interested to learn) that Swami Parthasarathy, who has been giving Gita talks around the world for many years, also gives talks to high-powered executives

about action, efficiency etc. There is certainly no reason why any job cannot be approached with the mindset of a Gita student and a seeker of truth.

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

P.S. If you do post to the group, you may post my answer as the first response. People have asked before for ‘real-life’ issues and I am sure it will trigger lots of interest.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

--- On Sun, 4/12/09, V. Shankar <shankar_v1 wrote:

 

I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world is

illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this

knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.

To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company for

more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I have

never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt to

put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.

.. . .

I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful

if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the

time.

--------------

 

Shree Shankarji - PraNAms

 

First, thanks for posting this to this group. There are many learned members

and also those that have gone through the same thing that you are going through

and can share their experience and knowledge.

 

Here are my own understanding and life experiences too.

 

Before I say anything, I want to share something - I was reading Swami

Chinmayanandaji ‘Ever-Green Messages’ yesterday night before I went to sleep

– it contains the quotes of Swamiji – here is one that is relevant to the

discussion –

THE SPIRIT OF ADVIATA IS NOT TO KEEP AWAY FROM ANYTHING BUT TO KEEP IN TUNE WITH

EVERYTHIING- This is very striking if one thinks deeply about it.

 

The problems that you are going through are signs of maturity and everyone goes

through as they exposed to more and more Vedanta. For such person only Vedanata

is relavent as per the scripture.

 

The world is not in conflict with advaita as the above Swamiji’s statement

shows, but conflicts can come depending on the attitude with which we look at

the world.

 

Life is not static but dynamic and it involves a play – as long as I am on

the stage I cannot but play. How to play properly with proper understanding is

the very key to unlock the discovery of life as explained in the Gita itself.

 

When you are playing, you have to play the game of life the best – as Krishna

did or Rama did – all showing how not to run away from the problem but solve

the problems with correct attitude – without the problems and without the

villains on the scene, I tell you any drama will be boring. Krishna who is

supposed to have married 16,0000 wives, but is prayed as ‘anaadi brahmacaarine

namaH’. One can give different meanings to brahmacaari but fact of the matter

is, He was married but actually never married. In the 9th chapter He says –

they are all in me – but again they are never in me. It is not a contradiction

but fact from different metal states. That is the way to play the game of life.

Any actor plays the scene – a king or a beggar – knowing very well he is not

a king or a beggar but the scene demands a role-play as a king or beggar as

though one is a real king and real beggar – he plays without forgetting the

fact that he is actor

playing the role of a king or beggar and never takes himself to worry about the

kings problems or beggar’s problems as his problems.

 

I worked in office environment for many years before and found all the problem

you mentioned – that is natural since each one in the game of life is at

different stages of evolution – You can sit back and enjoy the beauty of the

life in its all beauty and in its variety – there are apples and there are

bitter fruits – there are foxes and snakes and there are very noble people –

Just learn to stand apart and look at the drama – it is an incredible game and

see it as the vibhuuti of the Lord himself – after all this is all his

creation and he is not separate from creation. So play with Him in whatever role

that is assigned to you because of praarabda. In the past - I wanted to become a

sanyaasin too by giving up all these - but my teacher said it is important for

me to do sanyaasa to the desire for sanyaasa itself – that is the very desire

to give up – I can only give up what belongs to me, right. I am trying to hold

on something that I

want to give up. I need to give up that too, he said. I could see the beauty of

that statement and learn to see the world as not something to give up but

something to understand. External sanyaasa has no meaning if I am holding on

mentally to things that do not belong to me. Just hold on to Him and give up

things that do not belong to you - is the real sanyaasa; said my teacher. Takes

what comes as His prasaad (or one can say as praarabda).

 

Earning is not a sin or a problem – in the Tai up – Vedic student asks for

lots of money – so that it can be used properly – So my advice is to earn

Lots of money but spend for the Lord (that is the totality) properly for the

betterment of the people and beings, after you have fulfilled your obligations.

Just for the record – We are running poor Brahmin student hostel in my home

town – students who are very intelligent and very poor but are deprived of all

facilities because they are considered as ‘forward community’. We are also

trying to build a ‘Jr. College of girls’ in my home town – this is Govt.

college for all girls who are forced to get married at young age since the

parents are not willing to send the girls to far off for higher education.

Close to Madras there is a school for deaf-students – many, many very young

students who can not speak since they cannot hear are studying there– we are

trying to get them hearing

aids and also many other facilities so that they get not only education but

vocational training so that they can become productive members of the society

– All these cannot be done unless we have money – So we earn, now I work as

consultant whenever I am here in States. – By the by if any one wants to help

in the above projects please contact me in private.

 

Earn as much as you can in Dhaarmic way but after fulfilling your obligations

share that wealth for the benefit of the society – to uplift those who are

deprived of many basic things – food, shelter and education. All that requires

money; and money only talks. Hence Tai Up in Sheekshaavalli, Vedas teach us

that we should earn as much money as we can but utilize that money to uplift

dharma. That is the Vedic vision. Not running away from the problems.

 

Krishna says – yat karoShi yat aShnaaasi yat juhoShi dadaasi yat| yat

tapasyasi kounteya tat kuruShva madarpaNam|| Think of Him and perform all

actions – all obligatory actions due to the roles that have taken to pay the

game of life – and offer all of them to HIM. That way, we are completely free.

He knows what is the best for you and just surrender to His infinite wisdom and

accept everything that comes as HIS Prasad. That is the purification is what we

need as we dwell in to the secrets of advaita.

 

What can we do without Him and where can we go without Him – Understanding Him

and His vibhuuti – is living in the dynamic play with Him. Every moment of

life becomes drama with Him or play with Him. That is the greatest beauty of

Life and the dynamic living – and Vedic vision too. Swamiji’s statement

above comes to life in that understanding.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Dear Shankar-ji:

 

The questions you ask are natural and common to aspirants. Sada-ji has given you

a wonderful response. Sri Ramana spoke on exactly this issue many times as well.

 

Below, I describe how one has to be easy and natural with oneself and not too

tough.

 

easy-and-natural-is-the-way-by-dr-harsh-k-luthar

 

 

The secret of enlightenment is simply in being who you are.

 

the-secret-of-enlightenment-by-dr-harsh-k-luthar

 

 

In order to go to the heart of the matter, one must find out what is in one's

heart, meaning what are one's core intentions. If you work in this honest and

authentic way, you will come to see what is your path.

 

the-true-heart-by-dr-harsh-k-luthar

 

 

Namaste and love to all

 

Yours in Bhagavan

 

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of

kuntimaddi sadananda

Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:40 AM

advaitin

Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 4/12/09, V. Shankar <shankar_v1 wrote:

 

I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world is

illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this

knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.

To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company for

more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I have

never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt to

put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.

.. . .

[Guest guest]

Dear Shankaryour situation is understandable, because there is a choice you have to choose.At first: what you experience is necessary, the pain is in the mind "only"; your sense of responsibility too. To whom are you responsible in reality?To your Inner Self?If yes, you have to listen to this and as more open you are the better you will understand yourself. The signs we get from SELF via different channels are clear to see - for those who are earnest enough.Please do not try to serve more masters.....serve to the fullest SELF meaning in practice your inner voice.And accept that all obstacles are put in our way by ourselves to be grow....For the time being follow the advice of Dennis and learn...and at the same time learn to distance yourself from everything "notself"Watch everything from the point of a neutral observer who watches without qualifying anything.And - if possible - accept that we are not the DOER but than IT does thru us...and - again if possible - try to accept everything what happens to "you" (i mean your person) as GDS intention.Meaning whatever you experience must be for the best of you!!!this dear seeker for TRUTH is michaels person experience in this and other lives...So continue in LOVING SELF by accepting yourself....as you are and not as you wish you want to be....bye the wayhelping in general and specially handicapped ones is one of the most demaning "works" it needs LOVE for yourself. Without this unhappiness must be the result....in love in GDmichaeladvaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:>> > > --- On Sun, 4/12/09, V. Shankar shankar_v1 wrote:> > I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world is illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.> To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company for more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I have never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt to put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.> . . . > I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the time.> --------------> > Shree Shankarji - PraNAms> > First, thanks for posting this to this group. There are many learned members and also those that have gone through the same thing that you are going through and can share their experience and knowledge.> > Here are my own understanding and life experiences too.> > Before I say anything, I want to share something - I was reading Swami Chinmayanandaji ‘Ever-Green Messages’ yesterday night before I went to sleep â€" it contains the quotes of Swamiji â€" here is one that is relevant to the discussion â€" > THE SPIRIT OF ADVIATA IS NOT TO KEEP AWAY FROM ANYTHING BUT TO KEEP IN TUNE WITH EVERYTHIING- This is very striking if one thinks deeply about it. > > The problems that you are going through are signs of maturity and everyone goes through as they exposed to more and more Vedanta. For such person only Vedanata is relavent as per the scripture. > > The world is not in conflict with advaita as the above Swamiji’s statement shows, but conflicts can come depending on the attitude with which we look at the world. > > Life is not static but dynamic and it involves a play â€" as long as I am on the stage I cannot but play. How to play properly with proper understanding is the very key to unlock the discovery of life as explained in the Gita itself.> > When you are playing, you have to play the game of life the best â€" as Krishna did or Rama did â€" all showing how not to run away from the problem but solve the problems with correct attitude â€" without the problems and without the villains on the scene, I tell you any drama will be boring. Krishna who is supposed to have married 16,0000 wives, but is prayed as ‘anaadi brahmacaarine namaH’. One can give different meanings to brahmacaari but fact of the matter is, He was married but actually never married. In the 9th chapter He says â€" they are all in me â€" but again they are never in me. It is not a contradiction but fact from different metal states. That is the way to play the game of life. Any actor plays the scene â€" a king or a beggar â€" knowing very well he is not a king or a beggar but the scene demands a role-play as a king or beggar as though one is a real king and real beggar â€" he plays without forgetting the fact that he is actor> playing the role of a king or beggar and never takes himself to worry about the kings problems or beggar’s problems as his problems. > > I worked in office environment for many years before and found all the problem you mentioned â€" that is natural since each one in the game of life is at different stages of evolution â€" You can sit back and enjoy the beauty of the life in its all beauty and in its variety â€" there are apples and there are bitter fruits â€" there are foxes and snakes and there are very noble people â€" Just learn to stand apart and look at the drama â€" it is an incredible game and see it as the vibhuuti of the Lord himself â€" after all this is all his creation and he is not separate from creation. So play with Him in whatever role that is assigned to you because of praarabda. In the past - I wanted to become a sanyaasin too by giving up all these - but my teacher said it is important for me to do sanyaasa to the desire for sanyaasa itself â€" that is the very desire to give up â€" I can only give up what belongs to me, right. I am trying to hold on something that I> want to give up. I need to give up that too, he said. I could see the beauty of that statement and learn to see the world as not something to give up but something to understand. External sanyaasa has no meaning if I am holding on mentally to things that do not belong to me. Just hold on to Him and give up things that do not belong to you - is the real sanyaasa; said my teacher. Takes what comes as His prasaad (or one can say as praarabda). > > Earning is not a sin or a problem â€" in the Tai up â€" Vedic student asks for lots of money â€" so that it can be used properly â€" So my advice is to earn Lots of money but spend for the Lord (that is the totality) properly for the betterment of the people and beings, after you have fulfilled your obligations. Just for the record â€" We are running poor Brahmin student hostel in my home town â€" students who are very intelligent and very poor but are deprived of all facilities because they are considered as ‘forward community’. We are also trying to build a ‘Jr. College of girls’ in my home town â€" this is Govt. college for all girls who are forced to get married at young age since the parents are not willing to send the girls to far off for higher education. Close to Madras there is a school for deaf-students â€" many, many very young students who can not speak since they cannot hear are studying thereâ€" we are trying to get them hearing> aids and also many other facilities so that they get not only education but vocational training so that they can become productive members of the society â€" All these cannot be done unless we have money â€" So we earn, now I work as consultant whenever I am here in States. â€" By the by if any one wants to help in the above projects please contact me in private. > > Earn as much as you can in Dhaarmic way but after fulfilling your obligations share that wealth for the benefit of the society â€" to uplift those who are deprived of many basic things â€" food, shelter and education. All that requires money; and money only talks. Hence Tai Up in Sheekshaavalli, Vedas teach us that we should earn as much money as we can but utilize that money to uplift dharma. That is the Vedic vision. Not running away from the problems. > > Krishna says â€" yat karoShi yat aShnaaasi yat juhoShi dadaasi yat| yat tapasyasi kounteya tat kuruShva madarpaNam|| Think of Him and perform all actions â€" all obligatory actions due to the roles that have taken to pay the game of life â€" and offer all of them to HIM. That way, we are completely free. He knows what is the best for you and just surrender to His infinite wisdom and accept everything that comes as HIS Prasad. That is the purification is what we need as we dwell in to the secrets of advaita. > > What can we do without Him and where can we go without Him â€" Understanding Him and His vibhuuti â€" is living in the dynamic play with Him. Every moment of life becomes drama with Him or play with Him. That is the greatest beauty of Life and the dynamic living â€" and Vedic vision too. Swamiji’s statement above comes to life in that understanding.> > Hope this helps.> > Hari Om!> Sadananda>

[Guest guest]

Hello Shankar,

I have a similar dilemma.

During the spiritual path I've lost every interest in career (and in worldly

desires in general). Sometimes I worry about how am I going to maintain a job

without any interest in profession, money, status etc, and with feeling

essentially different from my co-workers who are not interested in Self

knowledge at all. I finish my MSc soon, and I will probably find myself in a

Hi-Tech company (according to my scientific education).

Another worry is from being so much absorbed in work and social issues (which, I

assume happen frequently in competative companies), so that it would be hard to

practice Self Inquiry, as opposed to my real and true and only desire to realize

the Self.

I also wish to serve humanity in my job. I do feel that it comes from a genuine

place in my heart, but it's really not easy to jump into the unknown this way.

Though I must say that during my spiritual faith a trust in life/god was

developed, so these worries about the future are not in the level anxieties

nowadays. When I feel a truth in me, even in the level of manifested personality

and it's unique destination, I know deep inside that everything would be

allright. So actually I wanted to tell you that you are not alone.

I also would be grateful to hear other advaitin's comments.

 

 

 

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

>

> Dear members of the advaitin list,

>  

> I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier

exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about

posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire

list, so here it is. I am also appending Dennis-ji’s reply after mine. I would

be very grateful to get suggestions and opinions from this group. Thanking you

in advance,

>  

> -shankar

>  -----------------------

> V. Shankar [shankar_v1]

> Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:56 PM

> Dennis Waite

> Subject:

>  

> Dear Dennis-ji,

>  

> I’m not quite sure if I have been able to accurately convey the conflicts

that I am going through. But here they are, documented to the best of my

communication abilities. I am first giving the background which I feel is

necessary to understand the context of my questions which follow after that.

>  

> * I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world

is illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this

knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.

> * To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company

for more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I

have never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt

to put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.

> * But in the last few years I have been finding it increasingly difficult to

motivate myself at work. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way

that doesn’t appeal to me. The factors which motivate most people †" earning

more money, rising up the corporate ladder, having more influence etc, does not

interest me too much. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way that

does not appeal to me. One has to constantly prove oneself, be visible, network

for the sake of furthering one’s career etc. all of which I find increasingly

hard to do. My main motivation on the career front is to earn my living to

provide for my family and do justice to what I am being paid for. Hence I find

it a source of immense conflict to push myself to do well in something which

doesn’t motivate me from inside. 

> * Another parallel happening in my life in the last few years is that I have

had this growing intuitive feeling (or inner voice if you may) that the only

kind of work that would give me deep satisfaction is one where I am of service

to disadvantaged people. Now while I have had a lot of good intentions along

these lines in the past, I have done little by way of social service, mainly due

to inertia. So my family is understandably skeptical about whether this is just

an escapist mindset. I think that’s a fair point. While I also have that fear,

in my heart I feel that the increasing unrest in my current job along with

growing feelings about the other vocation is part of some divine plan for

me, and that I need to play my part by acting on my instincts. As a practical

compromise I plan to continue in my current job (putting in my best efforts) and

start exploring in earnest my other interest during my spare time. I am giving

myself a few years to wet

> my feet enough so that I can make an informed decision of what to do next.

This does mean that I have to somehow motivate myself in my current job for at

least a few more years. But my greatest fear is †" what if my “callingâ€

turns out to be a false alarm and that also does not really enthuse me? Where

does that leave me? It’s a very scary thought but I don't want to let that

detract me from putting in all my efforts.

> * Lastly the most important factor in my life is that of spirituality which

for me influences everything I think and do. Even if all my thinking and actions

may not be aligned with what I believe to be the right thing, I tend to

automatically go through a quick validation of my thoughts/actions with my

evolving “interpretation†of whatever spiritual principles I have read and

imbibed over the last 15 years or so. And this does influence my mental

analysis, decision making and subsequent actions to a large extent. I have been

reading spiritual books of various traditions for many years. But its only in

the last couple of years that I have got introduced to advaita which for me

feels like the highest truth and its hard to go back to anything else. I still

consider myself very much a beginner as far as advaita or indian scriptural

knowledge goes.

>  

> * Having given this background (thank you if you are still reading J) here

are some of the questions/conflicts arising in my mind quite often:

> 1. Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest spiritual teachings

and the needs of a competitive workplace where you are mostly working towards

furthering your own interests and the interests of your company? And all the

company really cares about is to make money for itself and its shareholders and

beat the competition at that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating. Even

furthering my knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to do.

The desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from within

relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and hence it

automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even the slightest bit.

> 2. What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in one’s

chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that if you lose yourself

in the work without caring about the results, excellence will come on its own.

It should not be made as a goal otherwise it will be ego-based.

> 3. Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you or is it

just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to help others.

According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one is supposed to

ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what are we supposed to act

on? Is the right way to “act†simply to follow your instincts faithfully at

every step in life and consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your

instincts are misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your

heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

> 4. A general question †" How are we supposed to function in day to day life

if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

>  

> I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful

if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the

time.

>  

> Thanks and regards,

> Shankar

>  

> -----reply from Dennis-ji--------

>  

> Dear Shankar-ji,

> You have conveyed your problem very well indeed. I am sure that others will

have encountered this dilemma and be able to offer suggestions. It is a very

real problem as opposed to the many theoretical or academic questions posed on

the Advaitin group and I seriously urge you to post it in full there. I say this

because it is definitely a ‘Gita problem’ and I am not the best person to

respond to one of these. (I have over a dozen different versions in my library

but cannot be said to have really studied it in depth.) People such as Profvk

and Sadananda in particular will have useful input.

>  

> This is not the sort of problem to analyze and go over and over in your mind

†" this will only obscure the issues. It is rather the sort of question that

you put on hold for a while and then later pose in silence, following meditation

for example. In fact, if you relate to the phrase, it is something that is

answered by the heart rather than the mind.

>  

> The way that you describe it, it does sound as though serving the

disadvantaged might be your ‘destiny’. The phrase ‘svadharma’ in the

Gita refers to that which you ought to pursue as required to fulfill your own

particular destiny (neutralize your saMskAra). Earning lots of money, gaining

status etc can never be svadharma †" these are the false aims instilled by

modern society. I tend to think of ‘career’ in the sense of a car

‘careering’ downhill, out of control! But, as you and the Gita point out,

you do have to act. Knowing that the world is mithyA is no excuse for failing to

get up in the morning!

>  

> But, of course, you are nervous at the idea of giving up your job and going

into the unknown; this is certainly understandable. I think that the most

important thing you should do is follow up the teacher pointers that I gave you.

Sign up with one of Swami Dayananda’s disciples and attend classes regularly

without fail. There is no question but that gaining Self-knowledge is the single

most important thing that you can do. As long as you are doing this and know

that you are on a clear path to achieving this, the other issues can assume

lesser importance. This need not conflict with your existing job as long as your

priorities are clear and the job does not demand too much of your time. You may

know (or if not will be interested to learn) that Swami Parthasarathy, who has

been giving Gita talks around the world for many years, also gives talks to

high-powered executives about action, efficiency etc. There is certainly no

reason why any job cannot be

> approached with the mindset of a Gita student and a seeker of truth.

>  

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

> P.S. If you do post to the group, you may post my answer as the first

response. People have asked before for ‘real-life’ issues and I am sure it

will trigger lots of interest.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

> * Having given this background (thank you if you are still reading J) here

are some of the questions/conflicts arising in my mind quite often:

> 1. Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest spiritual teachings

and the needs of a competitive workplace where you are mostly working towards

furthering your own interests and the interests of your company? And all the

company really cares about is to make money for itself and its shareholders and

beat the competition at that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating. Even

furthering my knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to do.

The desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from within

relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and hence it

automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even the slightest bit.

> 2. What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in one’s

chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that if you lose yourself

in the work without caring about the results, excellence will come on its own.

It should not be made as a goal otherwise it will be ego-based.

> 3. Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you or is it

just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to help others.

According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one is supposed to

ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what are we supposed to act

on? Is the right way to “act†simply to follow your instincts faithfully at

every step in life and consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your

instincts are misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your

heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

> 4. A general question †" How are we supposed to function in day to day life

if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

>  

> I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful

if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the

time.

>  

> Thanks and regards,

> Shankar

 

Dear Shankar-ji,

I shall take up your last question first. You ask, " How are we supposed to

function in day to day life if we feel convinced that everything is

mithyA/illusion? "

What do you mean by `convinced'. Obviously it is only intellectual conviction

that you have now. As long as this intellectual knowledge does not become

translated into actual `anubhuti', the world continues to be real for you. Once

you `realize' the truth that the world is mithya, and you become free from

identification with your BMI, you will not ask any question at all, because then

nothing remains to be done by you. So for the present, proceed as if the world

is real.

The Gita says that one must do his duty to the best of his ability, without

hankering after the fruit, and as an offering to God. You have a family to

support and so, I suppose you cannot give up your job. Your company may be

interested only in profits, but you can do your duty most efficiently, looking

upon it as service of God. The Gita says that performing one's own duty is also

worship of God. So you need not feel bad about working for your company. But if

circumstances are such that you can afford to give up your job without

jeopardizing the interests of your family, then that may be an option to be

considered. But this is a matter that requires serious consideration and should

not be done on an impulse. Nowhere is it said that earning money through

legitimate means is an obstacle to spiritual advancement.

Even while continuing to work you can seek self-knowledge by study, preferably

under a teacher. You can also help various humanitarian activities either

financially or otherwise.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

Dear sir,

 

Namaste. I appreciate your valuable advice given.

 

The students of advaita should understand that Vivartavada (theory of illusion)

is an *experience* and *NOT a theory*.

 

If *real world* is an illusion, then we must not bother about *bank balances*

and *monthly salaries*.

 

with regards,

sriram

 

 

 

advaitin , " snsastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1@> wrote:

> > * Having given this background (thank you if you are still reading J) here

are some of the questions/conflicts arising in my mind quite often:

> > 1. Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest spiritual

teachings and the needs of a competitive workplace where you are mostly working

towards furthering your own interests and the interests of your company? And all

the company really cares about is to make money for itself and its shareholders

and beat the competition at that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating.

Even furthering my knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to

do. The desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from

within relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and hence

it automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even the slightest bit.

> > 2. What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in one’s

chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that if you lose yourself

in the work without caring about the results, excellence will come on its own.

It should not be made as a goal otherwise it will be ego-based.

> > 3. Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you or is

it just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to help others.

According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one is supposed to

ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what are we supposed to act

on? Is the right way to “act†simply to follow your instincts faithfully at

every step in life and consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your

instincts are misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your

heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

> > 4. A general question †" How are we supposed to function in day to day

life if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

> >  

> > I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely

grateful if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you

get the time.

> >  

> > Thanks and regards,

> > Shankar

>

> Dear Shankar-ji,

> I shall take up your last question first. You ask, " How are we supposed to

function in day to day life if we feel convinced that everything is

mithyA/illusion? "

> What do you mean by `convinced'. Obviously it is only intellectual conviction

that you have now. As long as this intellectual knowledge does not become

translated into actual `anubhuti', the world continues to be real for you. Once

you `realize' the truth that the world is mithya, and you become free from

identification with your BMI, you will not ask any question at all, because then

nothing remains to be done by you. So for the present, proceed as if the world

is real.

> The Gita says that one must do his duty to the best of his ability, without

hankering after the fruit, and as an offering to God. You have a family to

support and so, I suppose you cannot give up your job. Your company may be

interested only in profits, but you can do your duty most efficiently, looking

upon it as service of God. The Gita says that performing one's own duty is also

worship of God. So you need not feel bad about working for your company. But if

circumstances are such that you can afford to give up your job without

jeopardizing the interests of your family, then that may be an option to be

considered. But this is a matter that requires serious consideration and should

not be done on an impulse. Nowhere is it said that earning money through

legitimate means is an obstacle to spiritual advancement.

> Even while continuing to work you can seek self-knowledge by study, preferably

under a teacher. You can also help various humanitarian activities either

financially or otherwise.

> Best wishes,

> S.N.Sastri

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste, allTo the following observation: :<<You ask," How are we supposed to function in day to day life if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? ">>It seems mithya is not understood properly. Mithya is useful to a mithya, i.e. same level of sathya or reality. If I do not take food considering it as mithya, I will in due ourse die. When I take food let me have the knowledge that this mithya food is appeasing mithya hunger!Mithya as we all is not like sasha vishanam or horns of a rabbit.Self knowledge is for appreciation of the fact and recgnizing it while in the world. Everything has got its own place in the apparent creation and acceptance of this fact is the wisdom resulting from self knowledge.  with warm regardsR. S. ManiRecent Activity

 

 

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[Guest guest]

<<You ask, " How are we supposed to function in day to day life if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? " >>

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Why do you consider your 'function in day to day' is satya (and you are thinking that it is satya & you are doing it day to day !!) when everything is mithya/illusion?? 'everything' includes your routine function also is it not :-))....See, how trickily, we, the advaitins, tackling these type of practical problems :-)) Yes, I know how difficult it is to fill the gap between theoritical understanding & practical implementation of the advaita siddAnta in day to day life..Yes we do give examples like lotus-water etc. to keep ourselves busy in mundane saMsAra :-)) But when it comes to 'real life situation' we (me) far away from those truth :-(( I firmly believe that is the reason why our shAstra, sampradAya & AchArya-s firmly recommend sanyAsa for those who persue jnAna mArga with real earnestness...If everything is mithya & doing saMsAra is also mithya, it is still a puzzle for me, why ramaNa led his life in a seclusive place even after realizing that he is ONE & ALL, why vivekananda & shankara and most of the Acharya-s (irrespective of their school) even today taking sanyAsa for jnAna sAdhana?? Dont they realize this simple fact that everything is mithya so why bother taking sanyAsa?? God only would know the answer to these questions :-)) Anyway, no doubt, we are smart enough to feed our mind answers like above to keep our mind in saMsAra & 'enjoy' the mithyatva of that saMsAra with satyatva buddhi in advaita :-))...fooling ourselves??!! I dont know...

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Dear Shankarji, dear self.rememberence

 

Namaste

 

may one or the other of the following remarks be of use to you:

 

Something in your question resembles the one being raised again and again to

realized souls: " let me leave my family and take Sannyasa, so I can fully throw

myself into the spiritual quest. " As far as I know, it was denied when the

person had obligations to fulfil.

 

On the other hand it does not seem that either of you wants to give up work

entirely (nor family): the problem is the toughness of nowadays corporate world

which does not easily allow space for anything else but itself.

 

First and foremost: there is no single answer to this gap that you and many

others are experiencing - between pursuit of spiritual quest and having to

compete in the corporate world. What would be the right thing to do entirely

depends on the individual circumstances, as Shastriji pointed out.

 

Basically there seem to be 2 sides to the issue:

1. finding a practical solution

2. deepening your understanding so you relax with the fact that in this mitya

world you usually go on a mitya spiritual path WHILE having to earn mitya money.

 

Your last question, Shankarji, will give members lots of incentive to help you

with point 2.

 

 

A few considerations to point 1:

 

Having lost interest in a career might be a misinterpretation of what is really

happening. What you might have lost - and feel blessed, if you did! - is

IDENTIFICATION with career.

 

You may be able to go on following your career without this identification,

simply because of your own reasons (sustaining your family, supporting the

unlucky ones in this society, generously giving guru dakshina etc.)

 

There is though, as one of you pointed out, the possibility that

- either you are obliged to put excessive amounts of time and energy into your

job

- or your lacking identification is felt by your boss and might lead to you

loosing your job.

 

If you feel one of these is the case, change may well be unavoidable. Then

Shankarjis strategy seems quite intelligent - to explore different areas, making

a slow shift towards something you feel more authentic with. Probably knowing

your ultimate objective will make present circumstances easier.

 

Sadajis wonderful Geeta reply definitely applies to someone who cannot possibly

leave his job without acting adharmic towards his family.

 

Someone with less obligations (as you seem to have, Self.remembrance) has a much

bigger choice. You say " but it's really not easy to jump into the unknown this

way. "

Okay, that might be true. But who said that the spiritual path would be easy?

Such a turn may very well part of it.

 

So, If you are young and have no obligations, my advice is: don't go slow --

take a jump and from the very start of your career find a job you love to do.

 

Both of you have the possibility to put some energy into finding a work place

where you can use your abilities for a greater good. This might earn you less

money, on the other hand you may have more motivation to go there and a more

humane atmosphere around you.

 

Still: you will probably not find work with fellow advaitins.

In general, we have to accept that advaita vedanta is something that most people

on this planet are unable or unwilling to understand. Wherever you are, you will

be different from the main stream, especially in the Western world. So share

what you can share and enjoy that – even if its just a cup of coffee or a joke.

And you never know: you may very well have surprising encounters with deeply

thinking people in the most unlikely circumstances …

 

Om Shanti

 

Sitara

[Guest guest]

Pranams:

 

I.

I have not dared to reply to your email as an answer.

I have not dared to reply to your email as suggestion.

I have not dared to reply to your email to grade it.

 

II.

I have replied to tell you that you have done the transcription of my thoughts.

Thoughts, that was haunting me.

Thoughts, which I failed to express.

 

III.

And after reading it,I'm now in a belief that its not only me having this in my

mind.

And after reading it, I'm now in a belief that its not only couple of us have

this.

And after reading this its not only in this current present day we have this in

out minds.

 

And after reading this i think i am traveling towards the answer !

 

Thanks a lot to Sri Shankar and Sri Dennis.

- hari om -

 

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

>

> Dear members of the advaitin list,

>  

> I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier

exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about

posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire

list, so here it is. I am also appending Dennis-ji’s reply after mine. I would

be very grateful to get suggestions and opinions from this group. Thanking you

in advance,

>  

> -shankar

>  -----------------------

> V. Shankar [shankar_v1]

> Thursday, April 09, 2009 1:56 PM

> Dennis Waite

> Subject:

>  

> Dear Dennis-ji,

>  

> I’m not quite sure if I have been able to accurately convey the conflicts

that I am going through. But here they are, documented to the best of my

communication abilities. I am first giving the background which I feel is

necessary to understand the context of my questions which follow after that.

>  

> * I have complete faith in the advaitic position that in reality this world

is illusion, there is no doer etc, but I am confused as to how to reconcile this

knowledge with my day to day life and especially with respect to my career.

> * To give you some background, I have been working in a well known IT company

for more than a decade and am in a senior technical position. Unfortunately I

have never been too passionate about my career but I am sincere and have learnt

to put in effort at the right times in order to survive and do reasonably well.

> * But in the last few years I have been finding it increasingly difficult to

motivate myself at work. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way

that doesn’t appeal to me. The factors which motivate most people †" earning

more money, rising up the corporate ladder, having more influence etc, does not

interest me too much. I find the corporate atmosphere competitive in a way that

does not appeal to me. One has to constantly prove oneself, be visible, network

for the sake of furthering one’s career etc. all of which I find increasingly

hard to do. My main motivation on the career front is to earn my living to

provide for my family and do justice to what I am being paid for. Hence I find

it a source of immense conflict to push myself to do well in something which

doesn’t motivate me from inside. 

> * Another parallel happening in my life in the last few years is that I have

had this growing intuitive feeling (or inner voice if you may) that the only

kind of work that would give me deep satisfaction is one where I am of service

to disadvantaged people. Now while I have had a lot of good intentions along

these lines in the past, I have done little by way of social service, mainly due

to inertia. So my family is understandably skeptical about whether this is just

an escapist mindset. I think that’s a fair point. While I also have that fear,

in my heart I feel that the increasing unrest in my current job along with

growing feelings about the other vocation is part of some divine plan for

me, and that I need to play my part by acting on my instincts. As a practical

compromise I plan to continue in my current job (putting in my best efforts) and

start exploring in earnest my other interest during my spare time. I am giving

myself a few years to wet

> my feet enough so that I can make an informed decision of what to do next.

This does mean that I have to somehow motivate myself in my current job for at

least a few more years. But my greatest fear is †" what if my “callingâ€

turns out to be a false alarm and that also does not really enthuse me? Where

does that leave me? It’s a very scary thought but I don't want to let that

detract me from putting in all my efforts.

> * Lastly the most important factor in my life is that of spirituality which

for me influences everything I think and do. Even if all my thinking and actions

may not be aligned with what I believe to be the right thing, I tend to

automatically go through a quick validation of my thoughts/actions with my

evolving “interpretation†of whatever spiritual principles I have read and

imbibed over the last 15 years or so. And this does influence my mental

analysis, decision making and subsequent actions to a large extent. I have been

reading spiritual books of various traditions for many years. But its only in

the last couple of years that I have got introduced to advaita which for me

feels like the highest truth and its hard to go back to anything else. I still

consider myself very much a beginner as far as advaita or indian scriptural

knowledge goes.

>  

> * Having given this background (thank you if you are still reading J) here

are some of the questions/conflicts arising in my mind quite often:

> 1. Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest spiritual teachings

and the needs of a competitive workplace where you are mostly working towards

furthering your own interests and the interests of your company? And all the

company really cares about is to make money for itself and its shareholders and

beat the competition at that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating. Even

furthering my knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to do.

The desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from within

relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and hence it

automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even the slightest bit.

> 2. What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in one’s

chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that if you lose yourself

in the work without caring about the results, excellence will come on its own.

It should not be made as a goal otherwise it will be ego-based.

> 3. Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you or is it

just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to help others.

According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one is supposed to

ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what are we supposed to act

on? Is the right way to “act†simply to follow your instincts faithfully at

every step in life and consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your

instincts are misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your

heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

> 4. A general question †" How are we supposed to function in day to day life

if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

>  

> I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely grateful

if you could give me your’s and advaita’s perspective whenever you get the

time.

>  

> Thanks and regards,

> Shankar

>  

> -----reply from Dennis-ji--------

>  

> Dear Shankar-ji,

> You have conveyed your problem very well indeed. I am sure that others will

have encountered this dilemma and be able to offer suggestions. It is a very

real problem as opposed to the many theoretical or academic questions posed on

the Advaitin group and I seriously urge you to post it in full there. I say this

because it is definitely a ‘Gita problem’ and I am not the best person to

respond to one of these. (I have over a dozen different versions in my library

but cannot be said to have really studied it in depth.) People such as Profvk

and Sadananda in particular will have useful input.

>  

> This is not the sort of problem to analyze and go over and over in your mind

†" this will only obscure the issues. It is rather the sort of question that

you put on hold for a while and then later pose in silence, following meditation

for example. In fact, if you relate to the phrase, it is something that is

answered by the heart rather than the mind.

>  

> The way that you describe it, it does sound as though serving the

disadvantaged might be your ‘destiny’. The phrase ‘svadharma’ in the

Gita refers to that which you ought to pursue as required to fulfill your own

particular destiny (neutralize your saMskAra). Earning lots of money, gaining

status etc can never be svadharma †" these are the false aims instilled by

modern society. I tend to think of ‘career’ in the sense of a car

‘careering’ downhill, out of control! But, as you and the Gita point out,

you do have to act. Knowing that the world is mithyA is no excuse for failing to

get up in the morning!

>  

> But, of course, you are nervous at the idea of giving up your job and going

into the unknown; this is certainly understandable. I think that the most

important thing you should do is follow up the teacher pointers that I gave you.

Sign up with one of Swami Dayananda’s disciples and attend classes regularly

without fail. There is no question but that gaining Self-knowledge is the single

most important thing that you can do. As long as you are doing this and know

that you are on a clear path to achieving this, the other issues can assume

lesser importance. This need not conflict with your existing job as long as your

priorities are clear and the job does not demand too much of your time. You may

know (or if not will be interested to learn) that Swami Parthasarathy, who has

been giving Gita talks around the world for many years, also gives talks to

high-powered executives about action, efficiency etc. There is certainly no

reason why any job cannot be

> approached with the mindset of a Gita student and a seeker of truth.

>  

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

> P.S. If you do post to the group, you may post my answer as the first

response. People have asked before for ‘real-life’ issues and I am sure it

will trigger lots of interest.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " self.rememberence " <self.rememberence

wrote:

>

> Hello Shankar,

> I have a similar dilemma.

> During the spiritual path I've lost every interest in career (and in worldly

desires in general). Sometimes I worry about how am I going to maintain a job

without any interest in profession, money, status etc, and with feeling

essentially different from my co-workers who are not interested in Self

knowledge at all. I finish my MSc soon, and I will probably find myself in a

Hi-Tech company (according to my scientific education).

 

Namaste,sr,

 

Sankara said that it is real enough whilst one is in it...

Start there!

Until you are realised, it is as real to you as the dunce sitting next to

you...You are both dunces but you know you are that's the difference.

If you are religious you can surrender the fruits of all action to your 'God' or

Providence.

Just bear in mind that all the so called spiritual knowledge you have is still

in the mind just as the other dunce next to you. In fact the knowledge could be

spiritual materialism or wealth...Mind is just finer material that's all.

Time and meditation is the anwer, with a study of what really is happening or

not happening.

As Nisargadatta said, 1.We start thinking we are making things happen.2 We then

progress to realising things are happening to us.3.Finally realising nothing is

happening at all.

 

There is one thing for sure whether, you live in the world or in a cave your

karma will follow you....as long as you are in this illusion.

 

My advice is to live in the now..do your best now...set a goal and then

concentrate on the now...........Gaining all the spiritual knowledge and

material knowledge in the world will not get you realised anymore than it did

Hiranyakasipu..........who reputedly traveled to the stars and penetrated

matter.

Who am I? is the best Sadhana.........who does this, who is this happening

to....me and who is that..........Cheers Tony.

[Guest guest]

PranAms

For a beautiful, indepth and systematic exposition of antara sannyasa please visit

http://talksofswamiparamarthananda.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-sanysa.html

 

It may help clarify some of the doubts related to this thread.

 

I shall also try to respond to some specific questions that have evolved on this thread in my next post.

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam--- On Mon, 4/13/09, Sitara <smitali17 wrote:

Sitara <smitali17 Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflictadvaitin Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 11:20 AM

 

 

Dear Shankarji, dear self.rememberenceNamastemay one or the other of the following remarks be of use to you:Something in your question resembles the one being raised again and again to realized souls: "let me leave my family and take Sannyasa, so I can fully throw myself into the spiritual quest." As far as I know, it was denied when the person had obligations to fulfil.On the other hand it does not seem that either of you wants to give up work entirely (nor family): the problem is the toughness of nowadays corporate world which does not easily allow space for anything else but itself.First and foremost: there is no single answer to this gap that you and many others are experiencing - between pursuit of spiritual quest and having to compete in the corporate world. What would be the right thing to do entirely depends on the individual circumstances, as Shastriji pointed out.Basically there seem to be 2

sides to the issue:1. finding a practical solution2. deepening your understanding so you relax with the fact that in this mitya world you usually go on a mitya spiritual path WHILE having to earn mitya money.Your last question, Shankarji, will give members lots of incentive to help you with point 2. A few considerations to point 1:Having lost interest in a career might be a misinterpretation of what is really happening. What you might have lost - and feel blessed, if you did! - is IDENTIFICATION with career. You may be able to go on following your career without this identification, simply because of your own reasons (sustaining your family, supporting the unlucky ones in this society, generously giving guru dakshina etc.)There is though, as one of you pointed out, the possibility that - either you are obliged to put excessive amounts of time and energy into your job - or your lacking

identification is felt by your boss and might lead to you loosing your job. If you feel one of these is the case, change may well be unavoidable. Then Shankarjis strategy seems quite intelligent - to explore different areas, making a slow shift towards something you feel more authentic with. Probably knowing your ultimate objective will make present circumstances easier. Sadajis wonderful Geeta reply definitely applies to someone who cannot possibly leave his job without acting adharmic towards his family. Someone with less obligations (as you seem to have, Self.remembrance) has a much bigger choice. You say "but it's really not easy to jump into the unknown this way. "Okay, that might be true. But who said that the spiritual path would be easy? Such a turn may very well part of it.So, If you are young and have no obligations, my advice is: don't go slow -- take a jump and from the very start of your career find a job

you love to do.Both of you have the possibility to put some energy into finding a work place where you can use your abilities for a greater good. This might earn you less money, on the other hand you may have more motivation to go there and a more humane atmosphere around you.Still: you will probably not find work with fellow advaitins.In general, we have to accept that advaita vedanta is something that most people on this planet are unable or unwilling to understand. Wherever you are, you will be different from the main stream, especially in the Western world. So share what you can share and enjoy that – even if its just a cup of coffee or a joke.And you never know: you may very well have surprising encounters with deeply thinking people in the most unlikely circumstances …Om ShantiSitara

[Guest guest]

Dandavat pranams to al!

 

Thank you, Shyamji, for posting the link below. It is well

worth reading for all who have an interest in this thread

and clearly opens up other lines of thinking which have

not yet been explored. For myself, I was feeling as if the

encouragement to remain in a competitive workforce is not

always the right choice or the dharmic one for that person.

It is one thing to support one's family; it is another to just make

alot of money, buying comforts rather than needs for one's family.

And while it is laudable to donate one's money to a worthy cause,

it may be that the Lord is guiding you in another direction in how

you donate to charitable causes.

 

And to make that decision requires the ability and willingness

to trust in the Lord. Just as Swamiji points out in this article,

nothing belongs to us, including the direction of our path.

If one feels the directive from the Lord to go in a certain direction,

one should trust that He knows what it best. For this, where to

go but to the Lord for your guidance? He will guide you.

What the final outcome of that direction might be is also in

His hands.

 

For the surrender which Swamiji refers to, complete trust is a

prerequisite. And that means trusting the inner voice which

guides you, if you know in your heart that it is His voice

speaking to you and guiding you. Making that distinction

is probably the biggest challenge we face in choosing.

You might find some guidance and comfort reading Chapter

18 of the Gita, some wisdom of which Sadaji refers to in his

sage advice rendered earlier in this thread. Only each of

us alone in our private communication with Him can discern

whether we act in delusion or surrender.

 

--------------------------

Tameva sharanam gaccha sarvabhaavena bhaarata;

Tatprasaadaatparaam shaantim sthaanam praapsyasi shaashwatam.

 

Fly unto Him for refuge with all thy being, O Arjuna!

By His Grace thou shalt obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode.

(BG 18.62)

 

None of what I am saying comes that easily, and I am not implying

that it is easy for me either:-) But it is my daily goal, and my prayer to

Him when I attend temple and puja is to give me the strength and trust

to surrender to Him and the discrimination to know that I am bowing

to His guidance.

 

Finally, I am reminded of the famous story of Drapaudi. A friend

once sent me an anecdote with the additional twist that it was not

until Drapaudi let go of the last end of her saree and raised her

hands in supplication to the Lord, that He came to her rescue.

May we all let go in such a fashion and fly to Him without holding

onto anything but His lotus feet.

 

In His Service,

 

Radhe

 

 

 

-

Shyam

advaitin

Monday, April 13, 2009 2:07 PM

Re: Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict

 

 

PranAms

For a beautiful, indepth and systematic exposition of antara sannyasa please

visit

http://talksofswamiparamarthananda.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-sanysa.html

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote:

 

> 1. Isn’t there an inherent conflict between the highest

spiritual teachings and the needs of a competitive workplace where you

are mostly working towards furthering your own interests and the

interests of your company? And all the company really cares about is to

make money for itself and its shareholders and beat the competition at

that. It all seems so ego-driven and de-motivating. Even furthering my

knowledge in my domain is something I need to force myself to do. The

desire does not come from within. The only burning desire I have from

within relating to knowledge seeking is to further my self-knowledge and

hence it automatically happens. I don’t need to force myself even

the slightest bit.

> 2. What does The Gita or Advaita say about achieving excellence in

one’s chosen field? Does it even matter? My own feeling is that

if you lose yourself in the work without caring about the results,

excellence will come on its own. It should not be made as a goal

otherwise it will be ego-based.

> 3. Is there such a thing as a calling which you feel deep inside you

or is it just another ego based desire, even if the desire may be to

help others. According to the definition of karma yoga in The Gita, one

is supposed to ceaselessly act but not care about the results. But what

are we supposed to act on? Is the right way to “actâ€

simply to follow your instincts faithfully at every step in life and

consider that to be God’s guidance? What if your instincts are

misguided? Is there any scriptural insight into “following your

heartâ€, “inner voice†etc?

> 4. A general question †" How are we supposed to function in day

to day life if we feel convinced that everything is mithyA/illusion? J

> Â

> I hope you get the general gist of my conflicts. I would be extremely

grateful if you could give me your’s and advaita’s

perspective whenever you get the time.

> Â

> Thanks and regards,

> Shankar

> Â

 

Namaste Shankar-ji!

 

The Gita asks us to perform all actions as an offering to Isvara.

Whether you are engaged in corporate or social work, this attitude is

critical. If I am offering something to Isvara, I must ensure that it

carries my best effort. Whether that is recognized as excellence by

others is immaterial. One must do one's best and strive for excellence

because it is an offering to Isvara.

 

The story of Dharma Vyadha in the Mahabharata tells us that no

profession is to be condemned. Vyadha was a jnani, yet he continued to

carry on his family profession of being a butcher. Is there a conflict

here?

 

Is it possible to do only things that we like in life? We are charged

with various obligatory duties. Can we pick and choose among them? The

Gita tells us that it is better to perform our allotted duties even if

they are devoid of merit.

 

The thrid question you raise is indeed a difficult one. The Gita asks us

to keep to our svadharma, but how do we determine what our svadharma is?

We do not have the social system of yore where one's profession was

decided by one's birth. I think the inner urge or vasana is very

powerful in some individuals and they do take to their calling somehow

or other. This is something for the individual to answer. But a choice

should not be based on the apparent superiority of social work over a

corporate job.

 

Harih Om.

Neelakantan

[Guest guest]

Dear Shyam ji

could you please post explanation for all the verses of  NA KARMANA NA PRAJAYA---or indicate any source where it is awailable

 

regards

podury

On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Shyam <shyam_md wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PranAms

For a beautiful, indepth and systematic exposition of antara sannyasa please visit

http://talksofswamiparamarthananda.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-is-sanysa.html

 

It may help clarify some of the doubts related to this thread.

 

I shall also try to respond to some specific questions that have evolved on this thread in my next post.

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam--- On Mon, 4/13/09, Sitara <smitali17 wrote:

Sitara <smitali17 Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict

advaitin Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 11:20 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Shankarji, dear self.rememberenceNamastemay one or the other of the following remarks be of use to you:Something in your question resembles the one being raised again and again to realized souls: " let me leave my family and take Sannyasa, so I can fully throw myself into the spiritual quest. " As far as I know, it was denied when the person had obligations to fulfil.

On the other hand it does not seem that either of you wants to give up work entirely (nor family): the problem is the toughness of nowadays corporate world which does not easily allow space for anything else but itself.

First and foremost: there is no single answer to this gap that you and many others are experiencing - between pursuit of spiritual quest and having to compete in the corporate world. What would be the right thing to do entirely depends on the individual circumstances, as Shastriji pointed out.

Basically there seem to be 2 sides to the issue:1. finding a practical solution2. deepening your understanding so you relax with the fact that in this mitya world you usually go on a mitya spiritual path WHILE having to earn mitya money.

Your last question, Shankarji, will give members lots of incentive to help you with point 2. A few considerations to point 1:Having lost interest in a career might be a misinterpretation of what is really happening. What you might have lost - and feel blessed, if you did! - is IDENTIFICATION with career.

You may be able to go on following your career without this identification, simply because of your own reasons (sustaining your family, supporting the unlucky ones in this society, generously giving guru dakshina etc.)

There is though, as one of you pointed out, the possibility that - either you are obliged to put excessive amounts of time and energy into your job - or your lacking identification is felt by your boss and might lead to you loosing your job.

If you feel one of these is the case, change may well be unavoidable. Then Shankarjis strategy seems quite intelligent - to explore different areas, making a slow shift towards something you feel more authentic with. Probably knowing your ultimate objective will make present circumstances easier.

Sadajis wonderful Geeta reply definitely applies to someone who cannot possibly leave his job without acting adharmic towards his family. Someone with less obligations (as you seem to have, Self.remembrance) has a much bigger choice. You say " but it's really not easy to jump into the unknown this way. "

Okay, that might be true. But who said that the spiritual path would be easy? Such a turn may very well part of it.So, If you are young and have no obligations, my advice is: don't go slow -- take a jump and from the very start of your career find a job you love to do.

Both of you have the possibility to put some energy into finding a work place where you can use your abilities for a greater good. This might earn you less money, on the other hand you may have more motivation to go there and a more humane atmosphere around you.

Still: you will probably not find work with fellow advaitins.In general, we have to accept that advaita vedanta is something that most people on this planet are unable or unwilling to understand. Wherever you are, you will be different from the main stream, especially in the Western world. So share what you can share and enjoy that – even if its just a cup of coffee or a joke.

And you never know: you may very well have surprising encounters with deeply thinking people in the most unlikely circumstances …Om ShantiSitara

[Guest guest]

Dear advaitin group members,

 

I feel overwhelmed by the numerous replies to

my request for guidance. So many valuable inputs,

perspectives and suggestions!! It was also

gratifying to learn that my situation is not unique

and that there are others who were/are going

through the same doubts and conflicts.

 

I only had the time to go through every mail once

but I need to spend much more time in extracting

the essence of each mail that resonates with me,

and contemplating on the various insights I have

received. Many thanks to all the people who responded

and especially to Dennis-ji who urged me to post. I

hope this is not the end of the thread though and

that there are more responses on their way!

 

Regards,

shankar

 

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada

wrote:

>

> Shree Shankarji - PraNAms

>

> First, thanks for posting this to this group. There are many learned members

and also those that have gone through the same thing that you are going through

and can share their experience and knowledge.

>

> Here are my own understanding and life experiences too.

>

<-->

 

> Hope this helps.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

[Guest guest]

Here is an excellent thread and somewhat related to this subject that I had

bookmarked sometime earlier. I just now came upon it while looking for something

else.

 

advaitin/messages/33804?threaded=1 & m=e & var=1 & tidx=\

1

 

regards,

shankar

[Guest guest]

praNAm all,

 

Hari Om, Shankar-ji,

 

I'm more inclined to what Shastriji suggested. First of all, I'd like

to say that my reply is purely on inner-feeling, I didn't approach

anyone in the mortal body for guidance but submitted to whoever I

consider as Guru and I still consider that I didn't decide, but the

decision was taken; I just seem to have acted out. Later on, I did get

approval from some saMnyAsins and sAdhakas that I met. However, you may

kindly choose to consider the reply as an ego-driven one, which may be

so in all possibility!

 

I went through a similar phase some years back and began to

theoretically plan out early retirement; that failed, of course!  I

knew I was not ready for saMnyAsa due to vAsanAs and responsibilities

due to pUrva saMskAra, but I also knew that I can't contribute to work

to the extent that I started feeling guilty of not justifying my

salaries. I'll not get into boring details of my dvandva bhAva then,

but suffice to say that the best effort you talk of itself became an

delusion to me. Perhaps, thats a feeling for you too. Finally, I

decided to try a middle path as a way out, which meant giving up

without planning and assuming that there is a plan due to which I

survived thus far. This middle path meant that I'll earn and save on

need basis or more appropriately, reduce needs to fit the savings, till

I have dependents (it may be worth mentioning here that I chose to

remain a bachelor) and focus on chitta shuddhi. I went through lots of

ups and downs since I walked out of my job over 2.5 yrs back, including

taking up a job for 3 more months elsewhere to sustain, all thanks to

this middle path, but I haven't regretted it once. The only thing I

regret is sidelining my viveka-driven vairAgya and keeping all sAdhana

aside to totally commit myself to laukika workplace for the duration of

notice period, which extended to 10 months! Bhagavatpada, to the best

of my understanding, strongly recommends saMnyAsa at the first glimpse

of viveka vairAgya, else it is prone to get diluted into worldly. For

those who fail to act on it for whatever reasons, the middle path works

better if there is a lot of self-imposed discipline and satsanga, till

there is a Guru to guide. Its much better if you have one already, IMHO

in a mortal body or not.

 

Finally, you're the best judge of your vairAgya and to act on it,

because karma theory ensures that you get what you deserve. I thought

of sharing my thoughts and experience here because I took that step you're

considering, although you may want to serve the society while I felt I

was incapable of that. Yet another option may be to afford a sabbatical

of a year or so and decide at the end of it whether you were right.

That all depends on how confident you feel of going back to where you

were, if need be. But socially, a lot of " acting on it " is based on

one's responsibility as a family member, and what the family thinks, be it in a world of mithyA. In any case, I'd request you not to give up your sAdhana be it as a fulltime activity or parttime. May God/ Guru guide you on your path.

Apologies, if I've accidentally stepped on anybody's feet here with my conviction.gurOrpaNamastu,--Praveen R. Bhat/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known! [br.Up. 4.5.15] */

[Guest guest]

Bhagavatpada, to the best of my understanding, strongly recommends saMnyAsa at the first glimpse of viveka vairAgya, else it is prone to get diluted into worldly.

praNAms Hare Krishna

Yes, I onceagain reiterate that for those who want to really persue the jnAna mArga more seriously, saNyAsa is an ideal & the best path...I dont know how efficacious this middle path would be in the severe onslaught of saMsAra...I heard somewhere that *there is no half measure in sAdhana* and rAma & kAma both cannot travel in a same boat etc. etc. We have heard more than enough about 'mental vairAgya' we have tons & tons of quotes from texts like bhagavad geeta as to how one should lead his life in tranquility..for example, sukha dukhe same krutvaa laabhAlabhau jayAjayau...yadruccha lAbha saNtushtO dvandvAteeta vimatsaraH, tulya nidAstu teermouni saNtushtO yena kenachit, duhkeshu anudvigna manaH, sukheshu vigata spruhaha..yasya nAhaMkruto bhAvo buddhiryasya nalipyate etc. etc. We know the meaning of these verses, we know how effective these upadesha-s are if we implement them in our day to day life...But how many of us really trying to implement it in our day to day life?? how many of us, by remembering the geeta verse dehinOsmin yatha dehe kaumAram yauvanaM jara, tathA dehAntara prAptihi... can wear a granite face without an iota of feeling when our kith and kin suffers from ailments or dies in front of us miserably ?? how many of us implement the knowledge of *tulnya nindAstu teermouni saNtushto yena kena chit* when your boss fires at office without any fault of yours & your wife/husband bashes at you as soon as you get into home for trifle reasons :-)) How many of us memorise the verse yadruccha lAbha saNtushto and maintain tranquility of mind...when your subordinate makes a huge jump and sitting on top of you with a hefty hike in CTC and started commanding & dictating terms to you :-)) I myself seen one scholar who delivered discourse beautifully about detachment (vairAgya) with lot of quotes from shruti/smruti text about an hour...but after the discourse got disturbed & agitated for not arranging the transportation to drop him back to his house :-)) These are all some of the practical examples wherein we can hardly put theories into practice...As far as my case is concerned...I tried it a lot but in vain... successful implementation of these theories into practice depends on the intensity of the real life situations & our involvement...We are all at our comfort zone & vedantins when giving suggestions to others problems..but problem starts sky falls on our own head!! so we are still victims of that mAya saMsAra with lot of knowledge of vedanta and vairAya....I must confess here that I am still a vedanti who knows vairAgya but ONLY on paper :-)) saMsAra ghOra gahana jagadeesha raksha...

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Shankarji,Pranams. You have listed a concern that lies at the heart of my problems as well. Dealing with the real world is not easy. Add to it the half-learnt teachings of Vedanta and we tend to over-complicate matters.

From what I have listened to in Sw. Parmarthanandaji's lectures (16 part introduction to Vedanta (Tattavabodha class) and voluminous lectures on the Bhagavad Gita) I have discerned the following.Your job (or choice of work) should be something that is a) dharmic and b) what you *like* to do. If, perchance, you have been given work that is not to your liking then you have two choices - learn to like it or find another job. Most of us would like to choose the latter route, if we have the luxury of finding another job. Otherwise, learning to like ones job is the best course of action.

In the recent past, the caste system forced an offspring to take up the same profession as that of the parents. Not so in the olden days. According to Swamiji, paraphrased very well here http://introductiontovedanta.blogspot.com/2008/03/03-varna-dharma.html the Varna Vyavastha provides for a division of society into 4 varnas. We know them as Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra. However, each individual has a Guna (tendency or preference or personality) that tends to make him/her a Guna Brahmana or Guna Kshatriya etc. Secondly, the work that s/he does for a living makes him/her a Karma Brahmana or Karma Kshatriya etc. Finally, we have the birth varna also known as the Jaati (present caste system) leading to Jaati Brahmana or Jaati Kshatriya etc. Thus a single person could very easily be a Jaati Brahmana, be an army officer making him/her a Karma Kshatriya while having the basal tendencies of a Guna Shudra.

I found this explanation to be 110% perfect and it gives me satisfaction that one can choose to take up a profession that is different from one's Jaati and still be in good shape for Jnana. Now comes the problem of execution. What Swamiji says (as has been repeated elsewhere in this thread) is that one should do every action in the spirit of offering it to the Lord. This will give you the benefit of doing the action, not depending on the results as well as inculcating utter devotion to the Lord.

It is my belief that once one has had children, then a part of one's karma is to ensure that they are brought up to be good citizens of the world and that they get settled (independent) before one can take on the search for Jnana full-time. Otherwise one will be guilty of abandoning one's duty while searching for selfish self-fulfilment. Swamiji says that a house wife's karma is to ensure that children are brought up correctly. However, a mother alone cannot bring up children. They need a father too - and hence the need for us to hang around until they are independent.

I have been a victim of office politics (got laid off after 5.5 years of service). But what I can say is that I have suffered - but chose to do my duty (keep the customer happy without participating in office politics and back-stabbing) and left the rest up to the Lord. It was not easy. But I feel that my wife has a strong job just so that our family does not suffer. Also, I have been offered an opportunity to switch careers in my middle age, which I have willingly accepted because this will help me serve the needs of other people. I hope to succeed with God's blessings.

I hope this thread continues and gives us more idea on how to deal with the real world.Sai

[Guest guest]

Dear Sankar

 

I have gone through your posting in advaitin. Every seeker passes through

your stage. I do not want to assume a stage higher than yours but as a

fellow traveller I suggest you to please read 'Talks with Ramana Maharshi.

Please read the entire book.Though at times it may appear repititive pleasae

go through the entire book.You will find answers to all your doubts. As

regards your last para please read Ramesh Balsekar's ' Your head is in

Tiger's mouth " It is in the form of dialogues between Ramesh and visitors.

This book is titled with a famous statement from Ramana Maharshi

 

The conclusions I got

 

I do what ever I consider best in any situaton. When it comes to taking the

result I accept the result as prasad from Him, as I really believe that

whatever I did was actually not done by me but only by Him.Tthis is not to

say that I do not face disappointments in certain situations. Though

initially a feelong comes but immediately the above belief comes to mind and

the pain is almost gone. This was more initially but as time went on we

gladly accept any negative situation.

 

Another lesson I got, is not to make sankalpas i.e., to achieve this or that

( like getting name, dreaming big projects etc which may require body in the

next incarnation) If we are conscious of this determination in course of

time they drop and do not appear.

 

I help others in whatever way I can, But I always remeber Ramana's words

that the great service any body could to the society is knowing one Self.

Otherwise it is like one blind man trying to help other blind people

 

I am happ y to share a few thoughts with a sincere seeker

 

Pranaams

Podury

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote:

 

 

> Every seeker passes through

> your stage.

> I am happy to share a few thoughts with a sincere seeker

>

 

Namaste,

 

There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative

Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the

1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his

serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book " When I

Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008]

 

How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis he

faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I forgot to write the author's name: P.V.R.K. Prasad (b. 1941)

served as Executive officer 1968-1971).

 

S.

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Sunder Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote:

>

> advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury@> wrote:

>

>

> > Every seeker passes through

> > your stage.

> > I am happy to share a few thoughts with a sincere seeker

> >

>

> Namaste,

>

> There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative

Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the

1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his

serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book " When I

Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008]

>

> How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis

he faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

[Guest guest]

Finally, we have the birth varna also known as the Jaati (present caste

system) leading to Jaati Brahmana or Jaati Kshatriya etc. Thus a single

person could very easily be a Jaati Brahmana, be an army officer making

him/her a Karma Kshatriya while having the basal tendencies of a Guna

Shudra.

 

I found this explanation to be 110% perfect and it gives me satisfaction

that one can choose to take up a profession that is different from one's

Jaati and still be in good shape for Jnana.

 

 

praNAms

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

Just a general inquisitive query...how can we reconcile the above with

bhgavadvAni in geeta...svadharme nidhanaM shreyaH paradharmO

bhayAvahaH...is this bhavadupadesha applicable only at the battle field of

kurukshetra & just said to force arjuna to fight the battle & lost its

validity at dvApura yuga itself ?? As a matter of fact, in one way or the

other, we (I) are (am) all by jAti (by birth) brahmaNa doing karma-s like

shudra / vyshya (serving our employer or doing business) & having the guNa

of kshatriya (maintenance & dominance)...

 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

 

 

bhaskar