New posting on village life in Tamil Nadu

July 22, 2008

Dear All,

Following HarshaJi's line of thought, I would like to share a very

good article that appeared on a different advaitic list yesterday,

that I believe addresses very clearly the different issues that had

been discussed here.

Mr Kuntimadi Sadananda is a respected advaitin disciple of Swami

Chinamayananda. He gives lectures and writes about advaita philosophy

and issues. He also gave a wonderful lecture on Bhagavan's Upadesa

Saram and he is very fond of His Teachings, which he quotes very often.

This article appeared in a magazine called Hinduism Today some time ago.

Yours in Bhagavan,

Mouna

..........................

Does Hinduism require one to be a vegetarian.

By K. Sadananda

Recently two questions were asked - Does Hinduism require one to

believe in God? Does Hinduism require one to be a vegetarian? In a

recent article, I have addressed the first question. Here I will

provide some thoughts for the second question.

In relation to the first question, I have discussed what Hinduism

stands for, and who is truly a Hindu. In essence, Hinduism is Sanatana

Dharma, and that Dharma is from time immemorial - it involves pursuit

for Moksha. Therefore the one who is seeking for Moksha is a true

Hindu, irrespective of the nationality, caste, creed or gender. There

are other aspects that go with sanatana dharma, but in a nut shell

pursuit of Moksha is the essential ingradient. With that catholic

understanding, one can see that Hinduism becomes a way of life because

the pursuit of the essential purpose of life is the goal of the Hindu

life.

With that perspective, it is easier to analyze all other questions

including whether Hinduism requires one to be a vegetarian. Since the

purpose of life is securing liberation or Moksha, until we reach that

we need to live. Only death is the death of the ego that happens in

the spiritual awakening. Hence, keeping the body alive by nourishment

is our Dharma. That means one has to eat to live (not the other way -

living for eating sake!)

Life lives on life. That is the law of nature. Whether I eat an animal

or plant I am destroying a life. Among all life forms Man is different

from the rest of the life kingdom. He has the capability to

discriminate the right from wrong. That also gives him the freedom of

choice. Plants have just body and perhaps a rudimentary mind. Animals

have both body and mind to express feelings and suffering, but

rudimentary intellect. Man has not only body and mind but also

well-developed intellect to discriminate, decide and to choose. He

always has three choices - karthum sakhyam, akartum sakhyam and

anyatha karthum sakhyam meaning he can choose to do, not to do and do

it other way. For animals and plants there is no freedom of choice.

They are instinctively driven. Cow does not sit down before meals, and

inquire whether it should be a vegetarian or non-vegetarian. So is a

tiger. For a Man the discriminative intellect is very evolved. Plants and

animals do not commit sin in their actions because there is no will

involved in their actions. For a human, the story is different. You

may wonder why I brought sin in the argument. Let me explain.

Sin is nothing but agitations in the mind. It is these agitations that

prevent me in my journey to Moksha. Mind has to be pure (meaning

un-agitated) for me to see the truth as the truth. (Bible also says

Blessed are those whose minds are pure). To define sin more

scientifically - it is the divergence between the mind and intellect.

Intellect knows right from wrong - but we feel like doing things even

though we know they are wrong - that is, the intellect says something,

but mind, which should be subservient to intellect rebels and does

whatever it feels like. This divergence is sin. After the action is

performed - there is guilt feeling, because intellect, although was

overruled, does not keep quite, it keeps prodding " I told you it is

wrong. Why did you do it? " With peace of mind gone Man goes through a

" Hell " . Man is not punished for the sin; he is punished by the sin. -

Think about it.

All yogas, if you analyze clearly, are bringing this integration

between the body, mind and intellect. For a Yogi - What he thinks,

what he speaks and what he does are in perfect harmony or alignment

(Manasaa vacha karmana). In our case, we think something but have no

guts to say what we think, our lips says something different from what

are thinking - if you watch the lips and the actions that follow, they

are again different! - There is no integration any where. We live a

chaotic life. Besides deceiving others, most pathetic is we deceive

ourselves, and the worst thing is we don't even realize that.

Now, when a tiger kills and eats, it does not commit a sin. Because

its intellect is rudimentary, and it does not go through any analysis

before it kills - should I kill or not to kill - Should I be a

non-vegetarian or should I be vegetarian " . When it is hungry, to fill

the natures demand, it kills it pray and eats what it needs and leaves

the rest when it is full. It is not greedy either. That is its

Swadharma. It follows a beautiful ecological system.

It is only man who destroys the ecology by being greedy. " Should I be

a vegetarian or non-vegetarian? " is asked only by a man. Why that

question comes? Because man has discriminative intellect, and he does

not want to hurt others to fill his belly. He learns what `hurt' means

because he surely does not want others to hurt him. Plants are life

forms too, should one hurt them? You may ask. If one can live without

hurting any life forms that is the best, but that is not possible.

Life lives on life - that is the law of nature. My role as a human

being with discriminative intellect is to do the least damage to the

nature for keeping myself alive. At least, I am not consciously aware

of suffering of the plants. That is why eating to live and not living

to eat is the determining factor.

In Bhagawad Geeta, Krishna emphatically says that a Saadhaka (one who

is in pursuit of Moksha) should have a compassion for all forms of

life - Sarva Bhuuta HiterathAha. In the spiritual growth, one develops

subtler and subtler intellect (Sukshma Bhuddhi in contrast to TeeKshNa

Buddhi, i.e. sharper intellect). That is, the mind is becoming

quieter, calmer and self-contended. Your sensitivity to suffering of

others also grows. Hence it is advisable to be a vegetarian.

Even the traditional non-vegetarians repel against eating dogs and

cats or other human beings! Why? Meat is meat after all! But with

familiarity grows compassion.

There are many two legged animals in human form with rudimentary

intellect. They behave like animals, as we heard a case recently in

Michigan of man eating humans keeping them in the refrigerator. But in

the evolutionary ladder one develops subtler and subtler intellect,

then it is advisable to be a vegetarian - only taking from nature what

it needs to keep the body going. One should not hurt any life forms to

satisfy the craving of ones tongue.

Should Hindu be a vegetarian? Since such a question already arose in

your mind, you have a degree of sensitivity not to hurt other living

forms to satisfy your belly. Then you may be better off not eating

meat and you will be at peace with yourself. Since you are sensitive

to this the intellect directing you one way and your mind wants some

baser pleasure and directing you the other way. When you go against

your own intellect you commit sin. That is against your SWADHARMA as

Krishna puts it. Swadharma in a nut shell is what your intellect or

conscious believes in.

Besides, now, even the traditional non-vegetarians are choosing

vegetarianism not because of any compassion to other animals but they

are recognizing that it is not good for their health.

I have already mentioned that Hinduism has no do-s and don'ts, but you

determine your own do-s and don'ts based on your intellectual values,

culture, education and primary goal in life. Krishna gives only list

of value systems and say a wise man follows these. One can be

otherwise, and face the consequencs. You will find that following your

Swadharma makes you comfortable with yourself. It is not others to

judge, it is for you to judge. If you are agitated, that means you are

loosing peace of mind for these and that is a sin! Imagine your self

that chicken or cow that you are eating. Would you not advice the guy

who is eating you to be a vegetarian instead and spare its life. Do

not say you are not killing the animal yourself, and killing will go

on whether you eat or not. If you don't eat, one animal is spared.

This is the demand and supply. I may not be stealing my self, but if I

buy the stolen property knowing that it was stolen, it is a

crime! Is it not? Now there are imitation meats too - so why crave for

a dead meet. Why do you want your stomach to be a burial ground for a

dead animal.

From Hinduism point, it does not really care. All it wants is for you

to pursue the path towards the Sanatanadharma. So do what is needful

to keep your mind calm and un-agitated. Purification of the mind is

the means for attaining salvation, and that is the goal of human life.

Since by willful actions we got ourselves into this mess of Samsar, or

suffering, it is by willful Saadhana (your efforts) only we can get

out of it. Lord has given us the intelligence to accomplish this -

Krishna declares - you are better off following your swadharma than

paradharma. Swadharma (is not just what caste you belong or what

religion you belong) in the final analysis it is what your intellect

or conscious dictates. Because, after the action is performed, it is

your mind that has to settle accounts with your intellect.

Do yourself a favor - eat only what you need, I do not think eating

meat comes as your essential need. In fact it could even be harmful

for your body if not to the mind.

Hari Om and Tat Sat. - Sadananda

July 22, 2008

, " Richard Clarke " <richard

wrote:

>

> One point I was making is that from what I see here vegetarianism is a

> caste issue. Further I see that there continues to be very much caste

> prejudice, with real anger as well as contempt often shown by the

> 'upper' castes to the 'lower.' What I see is just people, what Indians

> seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice.

>

Richard,

You are engaging in a self serving gross generalization about Indians

and caste. Vegetarianism is not simply a caste issue. Almost everyone

in my family eats meat. I sit with them on the table and eat my

vegetarian meals. I do not have any anger or contempt or prejudice

against my brothers and sisters whether they are part of my immediate

family or not and whether they are Indians of some caste or belong to

some other nationality. My dear father who passed away some years ago

also ate meat. It did not lessen my love for him in anyway.

You say the following about yourself, " What I see is just people, what

Indians seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice. "

Richard, there are over 1 billion Indians. I doubt you know them all.

Your confidence in making such a statement is completely misplaced and

not appreciated by me.

Namaste and love to all

Yours in Bhagavan

Harsha

July 22, 2008

Question :

What about diet?

Bhagavan.

Food affects the mind. For the practice of any kind of yoga,

vegetarianism is absolutely necessary since it makes the mind more

satvic (pure and harmonious)

From Spiritual Istruction

David Godman 'Be As You Are' P.139

July 22, 2008

Dear Harshiji.

Sorry for my ignorance. I do not mean to offend. What I said is from a

very small amount of experience in a very small area of India.

Om Arunachala,

Richard

, " harshaimtm " wrote:

>

> , " Richard Clarke " <richard@>

> wrote:

> >

> > One point I was making is that from what I see here vegetarianism is a

> > caste issue. Further I see that there continues to be very much caste

> > prejudice, with real anger as well as contempt often shown by the

> > 'upper' castes to the 'lower.' What I see is just people, what Indians

> > seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice.

> >

>

> Richard,

>

> You are engaging in a self serving gross generalization about Indians

> and caste. Vegetarianism is not simply a caste issue. Almost everyone

> in my family eats meat. I sit with them on the table and eat my

> vegetarian meals. I do not have any anger or contempt or prejudice

> against my brothers and sisters whether they are part of my immediate

> family or not and whether they are Indians of some caste or belong to

> some other nationality. My dear father who passed away some years ago

> also ate meat. It did not lessen my love for him in anyway.

>

> You say the following about yourself, " What I see is just people, what

> Indians seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice. "

>

> Richard, there are over 1 billion Indians. I doubt you know them all.

> Your confidence in making such a statement is completely misplaced and

> not appreciated by me.

>

> Namaste and love to all

>

> Yours in Bhagavan

> Harsha

>

July 22, 2008

, " harshaimtm "

wrote:

>

> , " Richard Clarke " <richard@>

> wrote:

> >

> > One point I was making is that from what I see here vegetarianism

is a

> > caste issue. Further I see that there continues to be very much

caste

> > prejudice, with real anger as well as contempt often shown by the

> > 'upper' castes to the 'lower.' What I see is just people, what

Indians

> > seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice.

> >

>

> Richard,

>

> You are engaging in a self serving gross generalization about

Indians

> and caste. Vegetarianism is not simply a caste issue. Almost

everyone

> in my family eats meat. I sit with them on the table and eat my

> vegetarian meals. I do not have any anger or contempt or prejudice

> against my brothers and sisters whether they are part of my

immediate

> family or not and whether they are Indians of some caste or belong

to

> some other nationality. My dear father who passed away some years

ago

> also ate meat. It did not lessen my love for him in anyway.

>

> You say the following about yourself, " What I see is just people,

what

> Indians seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice. "

>

> Richard, there are over 1 billion Indians. I doubt you know them

all.

> Your confidence in making such a statement is completely misplaced

and

> not appreciated by me.

>

> Namaste and love to all

>

> Yours in Bhagavan

> Harsha

>

Namaste Harsha,

On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on my

visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it is

pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case

between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as Sudras,Vaisayas

and non caste Dalits.

My family are a mix of vegetarians and meat eaters, and some meat

eaters are the gentlest and most loving but cannot seem to make the

connection between the animal and its suffering and the food on their

plate.

There seems to be a cognitive dissonance with regard to this, and

just goes to show the mind and its divisions, combined with emotion

and feeling/energy can be most deceiving on the levels of awareness

in the vijnanamayakosa. They may not be awareness from that level at

all but from a highly developed Manomayakosa----love or the

manifestations of sakti prana come through all.....It is still a

mystery to me and can only be some kind of cognitive

dissonance...Cheers Tony

July 22, 2008

, " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote:

>

> , " harshaimtm " <harsha@>

> wrote:

> >

> > , " Richard Clarke " <richard@>

> > wrote:

> Namaste Harsha,

>

> On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on my

> visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it is

> pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case

> between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as Sudras,Vaisayas

> and non caste Dalits.

>

Dear Tony and Richard,

Yes, you are right of course. There is an underlying aspect of truth

to what you are saying.

I was objecting to the generalization of caste prejudice across all

Indian in the context of meat eating. In many Indian families, there

are both vegetarians and meat eaters and they do not have contempt for

each other.

The truth is that bias, prejudice, racism, casteism, religious

intolerance in some form are part of the human condition and no

country or culture in the East or the West is exempt from it.

I apologize to Richard and others if I hurt their feelings. However, I

felt candid expression of my discomfort with those remarks was needed.

Namaste and love to all

Yours in Bhagavan

Harsha

July 22, 2008

> >

> > I see no merit in attacking somone who is not vegetarian !

> >

> > Era

> >

>

> Era, hello,

>

> At least the vegetarians and non-vegetarians humans have the

> capacity

> to defend themselves from the so-called " attacks " in different

> forms,

> and one of them is definitely an open dialogue putting on the table

> the different points of view (and that of course, if they are not

> bullied with guns by other humans...).

> I doubt that the goat of the example had that possibility.

> Paraphrasing you: " I see no merit in attacking someone that is

> vegetarian either, like the little goat. "

>

> All the best,

> Yours in Bhagavan,

>

> Mouna

Yes, vegetarian diet is the " spiritual " way of eating. As a

missionary for Sant Mat in Hungary I was asked to show horror movies

about slaughterhouses... many could not stick to the vegetarian diet

and complained about made feeling guilty... Since than I dislike to

make ppl feel guilty for their ways.

Era

July 22, 2008

, " Tony OClery " <aoclery

wrote:

, " harshaimtm " <harsha@>

wrote:

>

> , " Richard Clarke " <richard@>

> wrote:

> >

> > One point I was making is that from what I see here vegetarianism

is a

> > caste issue. Further I see that there continues to be very much

caste

> > prejudice, with real anger as well as contempt often shown by the

> > 'upper' castes to the 'lower.' What I see is just people, what

Indians

> > seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice.

> >

>

> Richard,

>

> You are engaging in a self serving gross generalization about

Indians

> and caste. Vegetarianism is not simply a caste issue. Almost

everyone

> in my family eats meat. I sit with them on the table and eat my

> vegetarian meals. I do not have any anger or contempt or prejudice

> against my brothers and sisters whether they are part of my

immediate

> family or not and whether they are Indians of some caste or belong

to

> some other nationality. My dear father who passed away some years

ago

> also ate meat. It did not lessen my love for him in anyway.

>

> You say the following about yourself, " What I see is just people,

what

> Indians seem to see is colored by caste and prejudice. "

>

> Richard, there are over 1 billion Indians. I doubt you know them

all.

> Your confidence in making such a statement is completely misplaced

and

> not appreciated by me.

>

> Namaste and love to all

>

> Yours in Bhagavan

> Harsha

>

Namaste Harsha,

On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on my

visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it is

pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case

between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as Sudras,Vaisayas

and non caste Dalits.

My family are a mix of vegetarians and meat eaters, and some meat

eaters are the gentlest and most loving but cannot seem to make the

connection between the animal and its suffering and the food on their

plate.

There seems to be a cognitive dissonance with regard to this, and

just goes to show the mind and its divisions, combined with emotion

and feeling/energy can be most deceiving on the levels of awareness

in the vijnanamayakosa. They may not be awareness from that level at

all but from a highly developed Manomayakosa----love or the

manifestations of sakti prana come through all.....It is still a

mystery to me and can only be some kind of cognitive

dissonance...Cheers

--- End forwarded message ---

July 22, 2008

, " Era " <mi_nok wrote:

> > Mouna

> Yes, vegetarian diet is the " spiritual " way of eating. As a

> missionary for Sant Mat in Hungary I was asked to show horror movies

> about slaughterhouses... many could not stick to the vegetarian diet

> and complained about made feeling guilty... Since than I dislike to

> make ppl feel guilty for their ways.

>

> Era

>

Dear Era, greetings

I think it's all a matter of increasing awareness/consciousness and

connections. Put it in the right way, whatever displaces the veil that

hinders our access to Awareness, we should be grateful for.

Guilt is just another form the Ego takes to feel real.

In many cases we go for the smooth reply, and the " everything is going

to be allright " kind of feeling, and then the non-existent ego

continues showing its tail, and nothing happened here...

On other occassions, someone smashes us with a horror film (being

animal slaughter, war or cancer lungs wideopen), or puts our delicate

face right in the mud, and that was, by Bhagavan's Grace, the only way

to learn our lesson. If we miss that opportunity, it will surely come

back, and maybe even stronger shocks will be needed.

Yours in Bhagavan,

Mouna

July 22, 2008

, " Era " <mi_nok wrote:

>

> > >

> > > I see no merit in attacking somone who is not vegetarian !

> > >

> > > Era

Namaste,

There is no point as the mind that eats meat is the manomayakosa and

is developed that way. If the Vijnanamayakosa is not developed with

prajna there is no point of reference in common......As I have said

with spiritual people it is a case of cognitive dissonance....Tony

July 22, 2008

Dear friends

sometimes i do wonder how "innocentnaive" or plain ignorant even "followers" of ADVAITA can be.

For this person ADVAITA is it. Fullpoint.

Of course PREJUDICE is an integral part of "humans" - at least of those who do not try to live nonduality.

This prejudice is a clear sign where people "stand".

Of course there are so many terrible prejudices in india, one of the "countries" with the most highly developed "civilization".

Why should it be otherwise?

Europe, "the white people" are full with terrible prejudices - even after the massmurdering of gypsies, homosexuals, jews and other minorities not so long ago.

Looking at the situation of this "world" now tear can come into your eyes - if you are not really centered in your SELF - or if you prefer to live a life with closed eyes.

Vegetarism is like all -ism a dogma and should neither be preached nor followed in an selfpunishing way.

It c a n be a real wonderful way of living - i f a person lives accordingly in every field of life. Not only in eating.

We all have the most wonderful and authentic "leitfigur" possible - the most wonderful authentic "guru" possible.

And this guru"s life is fully documented - so in each way of life we can follow his example - because his example was never theoretical but always practical down to the earth.

in His Grace

michael

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.4/1566 - Release 22/07/2008 6.00

July 23, 2008

Dear Harsha,

If I may make one more generalization, I have found the Indians here

to be caring, loving people, who seem unusually open and receptive to

people from other places. Never have I been anywhere in the world

where I feel more welcome that here in India.

One thing that I have heard again and again from people here is " We

help each other. " This is not always the case, but still seems such a

strong value.

We are very happy living here, and in large part due to the people

with which we come into contact.

In terms of deep knowledge of India though, I am still just a baby,

trying to learn about a new land and people. I apologize again since

my ignorance has offended.

Om Arunachala,

Richard

, " harshaimtm " wrote:

>

> , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote:

> >

> > , " harshaimtm " <harsha@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > , " Richard Clarke " <richard@>

> > > wrote:

> > Namaste Harsha,

> >

> > On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on my

> > visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it is

> > pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case

> > between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as Sudras,Vaisayas

> > and non caste Dalits.

> >

>

> Dear Tony and Richard,

>

> Yes, you are right of course. There is an underlying aspect of truth

> to what you are saying.

>

> I was objecting to the generalization of caste prejudice across all

> Indian in the context of meat eating. In many Indian families, there

> are both vegetarians and meat eaters and they do not have contempt for

> each other.

>

> The truth is that bias, prejudice, racism, casteism, religious

> intolerance in some form are part of the human condition and no

> country or culture in the East or the West is exempt from it.

>

> I apologize to Richard and others if I hurt their feelings. However, I

> felt candid expression of my discomfort with those remarks was needed.

>

> Namaste and love to all

>

> Yours in Bhagavan

> Harsha

>

July 23, 2008

vanakkam harsha-ji,

namaste-ji! good to have you back...

all these words being exchanged about sattvism, vegetarianism and so on in the most civil way is not going to set the tone right...

perhaps if we could eat without desire, then that will be part of the Enquiry that Bhagavan says we should be doing because at the end of the day if there is an answer for "who is it that wants to know?", the Truth hasnt been Realized...

anbudan

TAT TVAM ASI ...--- On Wed, 7/23/08, harshaimtm wrote:

harshaimtm Re: New posting on village life in Tamil Nadu Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 12:36 AM

, "Tony OClery" <aoclery > wrote:>> , "harshaimtm" <harsha@> > wrote:> >> > , "Richard Clarke" <richard@>> > wrote:> Namaste Harsha,> > On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on my > visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it is > pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case > between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as Sudras,Vaisayas > and non caste Dalits.> Dear Tony and

Richard,Yes, you are right of course. There is an underlying aspect of truthto what you are saying. I was objecting to the generalization of caste prejudice across allIndian in the context of meat eating. In many Indian families, thereare both vegetarians and meat eaters and they do not have contempt foreach other. The truth is that bias, prejudice, racism, casteism, religiousintolerance in some form are part of the human condition and nocountry or culture in the East or the West is exempt from it. I apologize to Richard and others if I hurt their feelings. However, Ifelt candid expression of my discomfort with those remarks was needed.Namaste and love to allYours in BhagavanHarsha

July 23, 2008

, mango tree <oldmangotree

wrote:

>

> vanakkam harsha-ji,

>

> namaste-ji! good to have you back...

>

> all these words being exchanged about sattvism, vegetarianism and

so on in the most civil way is not going to set the tone right...

>

> perhaps if we could eat without desire, then that will be part of

the Enquiry that Bhagavan says we should be doing because at the end

of the day if there is an answer for " who is it that wants to know? " ,

the Truth hasnt been Realized...

>

> anbudan

>

> TAT TVAM ASI ...

>

oh yes my friend. ain't that so! thank you.

_()_

yosy

ps. hehehe somehow, by coincidence, this has been

posted right now on another forum:

the truly fearless

having nothing to protect

or gain

cause

no

harm.

> --- On Wed, 7/23/08, harshaimtm wrote:

>

> harshaimtm

> Re: New posting on village

life in Tamil Nadu

>

> Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 12:36 AM

, " Tony OClery " <aoclery@ >

wrote:

> >

> > , " harshaimtm " <harsha@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > , " Richard Clarke "

<richard@>

> > > wrote:

> > Namaste Harsha,

> >

> > On the surface there is some truth in what Richard says, and on

my

> > visits to India I noticed some of the same conditions. However it

is

> > pretty generalised as you say.There is a difference in many case

> > between Brahmin and the other broad castes such as

Sudras,Vaisayas

> > and non caste Dalits.

> >

>

> Dear Tony and Richard,

>

> Yes, you are right of course. There is an underlying aspect of truth

> to what you are saying.

>

> I was objecting to the generalization of caste prejudice across all

> Indian in the context of meat eating. In many Indian families, there

> are both vegetarians and meat eaters and they do not have contempt

for

> each other.

>

> The truth is that bias, prejudice, racism, casteism, religious

> intolerance in some form are part of the human condition and no

> country or culture in the East or the West is exempt from it.

>

> I apologize to Richard and others if I hurt their feelings.

However, I

> felt candid expression of my discomfort with those remarks was

needed.

>

> Namaste and love to all

>

> Yours in Bhagavan

> Harsha

>

July 23, 2008

Dear Group, Harsha-ji and Sada-ji and all,

I am sorry to offend. I have found that many are interested in Indian

Village life, as well as the deep spiritual thread that flows from

India and that flowered in the teaching of Adi Sankara.

I thought about whether to even post any of this anywhere, knowing

that some would be deeply offended and bothered by it.

I finally decided that it was best to show what I saw, as best I could.

I then thought that I would make the notice on this highly esteemed

group, since I do think there are many in the group to whom these

kind of postings are of interest and seem relivant.

For reasons I do not understand, I have been put in a place where some

of these village activities are shown to me. I somehow feel that it is

worthwhile to record what I can and make them available to other. I

tried my best to tell what I saw, and did not make any attempt to

disguise any role in this that I had, even knowing that criticism from

well meaning and good people was sure to come of it. I am still new to

India and do not understand much of what I do see. I do see a

spirituality that runs like a deep strong river though all levels of

life here that I have seen, that expresses itself in more ways that I

can imagine.

I am also able to document our joyful exploration of Arunachala, which

I think is of interest to many.

After reading the comments I do not know what is wanted by the group.

Clearly some say this should never be in such a group as this, others

say the exact opposite.

I do see some real discussion coming from this. that is why I took the

risk of posting it. Perhaps this discussion can be an aide in our

looking within to see the ideas we hold, to see what is real and what

is not. If so, then this will have been to good use. If not, I

apologize for the disturbance.

Richard

advaitin , " harshaimtm " wrote:

>

> Dearest Sada-ji:

>

> You spoke my heart. Thank you for that.

>

> Reading about the innocent goat being asked whether it wanted to be

> killed for the family feast brought tears to my eyes. Such a post

> should not be advertised on this list as most of us are either vegans

> or practice some other form of vegetarianism which is based in Ahimsa.

>

> Originally, these posts from Richard were " letters from Ramanaashram " .

> Clearly this post is not consistent with that spirit.

>

> I have been busy traveling and managing a number personal issues and

> have not had the time to be involved in and keeping up with the lists.

>

> But when I saw this, I wanted to say something.

>

> The luthar.com and HS websites are being integrated over the summer.

> There is a lot of work being done in the background by professionals.

> When it is finished, I will announce the new and " improved "

blog/website.

>

> For now, I would like the Advaitin members to accept my apologies.

> The post is about an aspect of the Indian culture. While it makes very

> interesting reading for some people, it is not appropriate to

> advertise it on this list at all.

>

> In yoga, Ahimsa is the first principle. To transcend the mind and to

> be the Self one must see the Self in all. In the relative world, when

> violence is made to seem legitimate somehow, a Sadhak must not be

> influenced by that. Self-Realization and Ahimsa go together.

>

> I ask for your forgiveness for this post being advertised here.

>

> I will communicate my feelings to Richard.

>

> Namaste and love to all

> Harsha

>

> advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

> <kuntimaddisada@> wrote:

> >

> > PraNAms to all

> >

> > My response to the post is not as moderator but just as witnessing

> agent!

> >

> > Previous posts that involve website address that gave glimpse of

> Hills of Arunachala and the temples around was to me inspiring

> >

> > The lost post that involved - particularly the sacrifice of an

> innocent goat is rather repelling. There are lot of innocent beings

> being hurt in the name of religious practices and if possible we need

> to educate the public involved and if not at least keep away from

> them. Krishna says - sarvabhuuta hite rataaH - Love for all being is

> essential ingredient in growing up.

> >

> > I request posters to refrain from such posts in future. We do enjoy

> the pictures of holy places that we cannot visit otherwise and those

> pictures that take the mind to contemplation. I know Richard wants to

> share in life-experiences in India but it may be better not to show

> everything that goes on since there are things that distracts or

> disturbs the mind than make it saatvik.

> >

> > Adviata involves seeing advaita in dvaita hence it cannot be away

> from dvaita. Since our minds are not pure enough to transcend both

> good and bad, it is better to stick to the good until we evolve - that

> is what is implied in shama and dama, as a part of saadhana.

> >

> > Hari Om!

> > Sadananda

> >

>

July 23, 2008