Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled through thought in some human brain, because then "human" is also a thought and so is "brain". Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows where.Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions thatincludes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. -geo-> ====> Right, I reduce the universe to thoughts and sensations not to discover > truth but to give people the sense of non-separation. Once that is > realized, one can take up any number of views, even a hard-lined > scientific, objectivist, rational view of "things existing out there" > independent of how they are perceived. It's not my favored view, but > everyone is free to go there. -Scott-> ===> Yes.> Once we understand that THIS can not be known or conceived in any way, > that Awareness can not be known or named or pointed to in any way, then > why not live in a human world of things and mountains and stars and > friends (even if there are no "others out there") and lovers and kids? The > known will not interfere in the unknowable anyway...Is this not what some zen writings call as "coming down from the mountain to meet the friens in the market"? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > through > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > where. > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > -geo- > > ==== > > Right, I reduce the universe to thoughts and sensations not to discover > > truth but to give people the sense of non-separation. Once that is > > realized, one can take up any number of views, even a hard-lined > > scientific, objectivist, rational view of " things existing out there " > > independent of how they are perceived. It's not my favored view, but > > everyone is free to go there. > -Scott- > > === > > Yes. > > Once we understand that THIS can not be known or conceived in any way, > > that Awareness can not be known or named or pointed to in any way, then > > why not live in a human world of things and mountains and stars and > > friends (even if there are no " others out there " ) and lovers and kids? The > > known will not interfere in the unknowable anyway... > > Is this not what some zen writings call as " coming down from the mountain to > meet the friens in the market " ? > -geo- this is not what zen writings call anything at all. you've just misunderstood. there isn't anything to understand from the first. there is no one to understand. the is no such thing as understanding. so stick to the wordy philosophies you like to spout. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 - BobN Nisargadatta Monday, April 05, 2010 9:40 AM Re: Jam in the market-place... Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > through > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > where. > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > -geo- > > ==== > > Right, I reduce the universe to thoughts and sensations not to discover > > truth but to give people the sense of non-separation. Once that is > > realized, one can take up any number of views, even a hard-lined > > scientific, objectivist, rational view of " things existing out there " > > independent of how they are perceived. It's not my favored view, but > > everyone is free to go there. > -Scott- > > === > > Yes. > > Once we understand that THIS can not be known or conceived in any way, > > that Awareness can not be known or named or pointed to in any way, then > > why not live in a human world of things and mountains and stars and > > friends (even if there are no " others out there " ) and lovers and kids? > > The > > known will not interfere in the unknowable anyway... > > Is this not what some zen writings call as " coming down from the mountain > to > meet the friens in the market " ? > -geo- this is not what zen writings call anything at all. you've just misunderstood. there isn't anything to understand from the first. there is no one to understand. the is no such thing as understanding. so stick to the wordy philosophies you like to spout. ..b b.b. Bluuuuuurpp done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > through > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > where. > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > -geo- Hi Geo - Yes, it's an infinite regression. Due to self-reflexivity. Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can refer to itself ... ad infinitum. This is how memories work. And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) And the same with thought. Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there is only thought. " One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " anything. It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. Memory stops having anything to refer to. Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. Thought happens. Words are spoken. The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " Not that it has a container, it doesn't. But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is it going anywhere. Just this perfect undivided moment. Peace. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Monday, April 05, 2010 12:55 PM Re: Jam in the market-place... Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > through > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > where. > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > -geo- Hi Geo - Yes, it's an infinite regression. Due to self-reflexivity. Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can refer to itself ... ad infinitum. This is how memories work. And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) And the same with thought. Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there is only thought. " One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " anything. It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. Memory stops having anything to refer to. Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. Thought happens. Words are spoken. The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " Not that it has a container, it doesn't. But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is it going anywhere. Just this perfect undivided moment. Peace. - Dan - And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not some enemy or obstacle but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, worlds and friends. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > some enemy or obstacle > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > worlds and friends. > -geo- Memory isn't an obstacle per se. But nothing it refers to exists. And so, memory becomes an obstacle because psychological fear gets involved. Things that memory and thought refer to are treated as really having an existence of their own (such as the past, such as different things it refers to, like friends and cars). Friends, worlds, histories - those don't add anything to " what is. " And if psychological fear gets stirred up (what if I lose my friend, what if my car isn't as nice as my neighbor's, what if my friend doesn't like me, what if my world is going through convulsions - then psychological fear, avoided and treated as something that " thought will fix " ... has become an obstacle). This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory refer to as if having existences. All that exists is " what is. " Which has no state of non-existence, and no divisions - so can't really be said to " exist " - as if existing were a quality it has. There is no opposite to this " existence, " so it's not a quality. It's not like when we say a dog exists, knowing that later it won't. It's not like the things thought refers to. Thought can't refer to this. - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > some enemy or obstacle > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > worlds and friends. > > -geo- > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > But nothing it refers to exists. Not as remembered, anyway. Memory refers to the past, which simply doesn't exist. That doesn't negate memory's usefulness -- for example, in finding one's way to the grocery store. But the 'remembered grocery store' isn't there, is the past. Is a symbol that can help with present navigation, though. > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory refer to as if having existences. > Indeed. No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > > some enemy or obstacle > > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > > worlds and friends. > > > -geo- > > > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > > > But nothing it refers to exists. > > Not as remembered, anyway. > > Memory refers to the past, which simply doesn't exist. > > That doesn't negate memory's usefulness -- for example, in finding one's way to the grocery store. > > But the 'remembered grocery store' isn't there, is the past. D: True, good point. > Is a symbol that can help with present navigation, though. D: Well, the notion that there is a separately existing being that uses the memory to get somewhere, isn't what actually occurs. That separable being who uses memory is a reference point for thought and memory, but there isn't anyone actually living there (as a separable being who wants to get to the grocery store). In fact, explanations are always in hindsight, when looking at what happened, at the past, and using memory. The person who used memory to get to the store is constructed in hindsight. In the present, there's no such separable being or person. So " getting to the grocery store, using memory to remember the location, buying milk, going home, using memory to remember where my house is, eating cereal with the milk I bought " - all of that is one, undivided action. The movement is ongoing, never stops - which is to say, is only present. Memory isn't separated out from it (the movement). And the movement is always present-only. > > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory refer to as if having existences. > > > > Indeed. > > No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. Not sure what you mean by " includes 'space' as well " ... Do you mean the sense of there being space is due to memory? - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 05, 2010 9:40 AM > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > through > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > > where. > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > > -geo- > > > ==== > > > Right, I reduce the universe to thoughts and sensations not to discover > > > truth but to give people the sense of non-separation. Once that is > > > realized, one can take up any number of views, even a hard-lined > > > scientific, objectivist, rational view of " things existing out there " > > > independent of how they are perceived. It's not my favored view, but > > > everyone is free to go there. > > -Scott- > > > === > > > Yes. > > > Once we understand that THIS can not be known or conceived in any way, > > > that Awareness can not be known or named or pointed to in any way, then > > > why not live in a human world of things and mountains and stars and > > > friends (even if there are no " others out there " ) and lovers and kids? > > > The > > > known will not interfere in the unknowable anyway... > > > > Is this not what some zen writings call as " coming down from the mountain > > to > > meet the friens in the market " ? > > -geo- > > this is not what zen writings call anything at all. > > you've just misunderstood. > > there isn't anything to understand from the first. > > there is no one to understand. > > the is no such thing as understanding. > > so stick to the wordy philosophies you like to spout. > > .b b.b. > > Bluuuuuurpp done. there are more things that are not than are undreamt of.. in your philosifizen' georatio.. there are more things blurped within and without.. than you have yet dreamt of puking up. but it's not much to think about. well shucks..you know... gol'darnit buckaroo.. there nothing to think about at all. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > through > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > > where. > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions that > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: thoughts. > > -geo- > > Hi Geo - > > Yes, it's an infinite regression. > > Due to self-reflexivity. > > Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can refer to itself ... ad infinitum. > > This is how memories work. > > And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. > > Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) > > And the same with thought. > > Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there is only thought. " > > One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " anything. > > It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. > > Memory stops having anything to refer to. > > Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. > > Thought happens. > > Words are spoken. > > The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " > > Not that it has a container, it doesn't. > > But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is it going anywhere. > > Just this perfect undivided moment. > > Peace. > > - Dan - dabbo.. do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... playing with yourself like this? have you no shame at all? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > some enemy or obstacle > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > worlds and friends. > > -geo- > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > But nothing it refers to exists. And so, memory becomes an obstacle because psychological fear gets involved. Things that memory and thought refer to are treated as really having an existence of their own (such as the past, such as different things it refers to, like friends and cars). Friends, worlds, histories - those don't add anything to " what is. " And if psychological fear gets stirred up (what if I lose my friend, what if my car isn't as nice as my neighbor's, what if my friend doesn't like me, what if my world is going through convulsions - then psychological fear, avoided and treated as something that " thought will fix " ... has become an obstacle). > > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory refer to as if having existences. > > All that exists is " what is. " > > Which has no state of non-existence, and no divisions - so can't really be said to " exist " - as if existing were a quality it has. > > There is no opposite to this " existence, " so it's not a quality. > > It's not like when we say a dog exists, knowing that later it won't. It's not like the things thought refers to. Thought can't refer to this. > > - Dan - dabbo to the rescue! dabbo will improve upon whatever's been said! oh how the world waits for dabbo's viewpoint. it's a small and narrow vista this dabbo view.. but it's oh so sweet and colorful. and the little guy wants to be loved. ALL HAIL unto the blessed boy! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > > some enemy or obstacle > > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > > worlds and friends. > > > -geo- > > > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > > > But nothing it refers to exists. > > Not as remembered, anyway. > > Memory refers to the past, which simply doesn't exist. > > That doesn't negate memory's usefulness -- for example, in finding one's way to the grocery store. > > But the 'remembered grocery store' isn't there, is the past. > > Is a symbol that can help with present navigation, though. > > > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory refer to as if having existences. > > > > Indeed. > > No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. i think that's about the spaceiest bullshit i've ever heard. yes it includes as you say.. a lot of hollow space. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Monday, April 05, 2010 3:20 PM Re: Jam in the market-place... Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > some enemy or obstacle > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > worlds and friends. > > -geo- > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > But nothing it refers to exists. Not as remembered, anyway. Memory refers to the past, which simply doesn't exist. That doesn't negate memory's usefulness -- for example, in finding one's way to the grocery store. But the 'remembered grocery store' isn't there, is the past. Is a symbol that can help with present navigation, though. > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's > not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory > refer to as if having existences. > Indeed. No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. == Memory remembers the past that does not exist. Memory refers to a " thing " that is in memory itself. This is the infinite regression...the stop... and there is no such thing as a memory that remembers some past. It is an incomprehensible phenomenon that is another building block just like body/mind, the world, consciousness - all arising together as THIS. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 - BobN Nisargadatta Monday, April 05, 2010 4:22 PM Re: Jam in the market-place... Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > through > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and > > so > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none > > knows > > where. > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions > > that > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: > > thoughts. > > -geo- > > Hi Geo - > > Yes, it's an infinite regression. > > Due to self-reflexivity. > > Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can refer > to itself ... ad infinitum. > > This is how memories work. > > And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. > > Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) > > And the same with thought. > > Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite > regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there is > only thought. " > > One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " > anything. > > It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. > > Memory stops having anything to refer to. > > Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. > > Thought happens. > > Words are spoken. > > The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " > > Not that it has a container, it doesn't. > > But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is it > going anywhere. > > Just this perfect undivided moment. > > Peace. > > - Dan - dabbo.. do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... playing with yourself like this? have you no shame at all? ..b b.b. barbie... do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... reading this forum's posts - that you you already know beforehand you will hate - like this? have you no shame at all? ..g e.o. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 05, 2010 3:20 PM > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > And in this context, memory seems to be an inherent part of what IS. Not > > > some enemy or obstacle > > > but am incredible stuff that enables the arising of things, universes, > > > worlds and friends. > > > -geo- > > > > Memory isn't an obstacle per se. > > > > But nothing it refers to exists. > > Not as remembered, anyway. > > Memory refers to the past, which simply doesn't exist. > > That doesn't negate memory's usefulness -- for example, in finding one's way > to the grocery store. > > But the 'remembered grocery store' isn't there, is the past. > > Is a symbol that can help with present navigation, though. > > > This seems to be what Nisargadatta refers to as " the dream " -- saying he's > > not involved in the dream. He's not invested in things that thought/memory > > refer to as if having existences. > > > > Indeed. > > No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. > == > > Memory remembers the past that does not exist. Memory refers to a " thing " > that is in memory > itself. This is the infinite regression...the stop... and there is no such > thing as a memory that remembers > some past. It is an incomprehensible phenomenon that is another building > block just like body/mind, > the world, consciousness - all arising together as THIS. > -geo- geoparado.. how long does it take for you.. to get up and move toward the bathroom.. after you first begin to feel as though you need to drop a load? what the f*ck is the upstairs post ever going to do for you? get up off your philosophyzin' ass and do something productive! this is just nonsense young man. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 05, 2010 4:22 PM > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > > through > > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and > > > so > > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none > > > knows > > > where. > > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions > > > that > > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: > > > thoughts. > > > -geo- > > > > Hi Geo - > > > > Yes, it's an infinite regression. > > > > Due to self-reflexivity. > > > > Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can refer > > to itself ... ad infinitum. > > > > This is how memories work. > > > > And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. > > > > Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) > > > > And the same with thought. > > > > Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite > > regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there is > > only thought. " > > > > One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " > > anything. > > > > It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. > > > > Memory stops having anything to refer to. > > > > Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. > > > > Thought happens. > > > > Words are spoken. > > > > The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " > > > > Not that it has a container, it doesn't. > > > > But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is it > > going anywhere. > > > > Just this perfect undivided moment. > > > > Peace. > > > > - Dan - > > dabbo.. > > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > > playing with yourself like this? > > have you no shame at all? > > .b b.b. > > barbie... > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > reading this forum's posts - that you you already know beforehand > you will hate - like this? have you no shame at all? > .g e.o. hate them???!!! hell geo lad i love them! they make my day because they make me laugh. do you really feel that joy and laughter.. should be considered shameful? you must lead a drab and sorrowful life. maybe your attitude comes from sour grapes? and what the hell are you doin' tryin' to play with a barbie doll? i'm beginning to have some ideas about what you may be geoparado. but hey what the hell it's the 21rst century. you're allowed. if you want to be like that it's fine. and it's funny as hell too! LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 - BobN Nisargadatta Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 PM Re: Jam in the market-place... Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 05, 2010 4:22 PM > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > > through > > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought > > > and > > > so > > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house > > > of > > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness > > > and > > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none > > > knows > > > where. > > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions > > > that > > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: > > > thoughts. > > > -geo- > > > > Hi Geo - > > > > Yes, it's an infinite regression. > > > > Due to self-reflexivity. > > > > Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can > > refer > > to itself ... ad infinitum. > > > > This is how memories work. > > > > And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. > > > > Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) > > > > And the same with thought. > > > > Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite > > regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there > > is > > only thought. " > > > > One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " > > anything. > > > > It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. > > > > Memory stops having anything to refer to. > > > > Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. > > > > Thought happens. > > > > Words are spoken. > > > > The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " > > > > Not that it has a container, it doesn't. > > > > But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is > > it > > going anywhere. > > > > Just this perfect undivided moment. > > > > Peace. > > > > - Dan - > > dabbo.. > > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > > playing with yourself like this? > > have you no shame at all? > > .b b.b. > > barbie... > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > reading this forum's posts - that you you already know beforehand > you will hate - like this? have you no shame at all? > .g e.o. hate them???!!! hell geo lad i love them! they make my day because they make me laugh. do you really feel that joy and laughter.. should be considered shameful? you must lead a drab and sorrowful life. maybe your attitude comes from sour grapes? and what the hell are you doin' tryin' to play with a barbie doll? i'm beginning to have some ideas about what you may be geoparado. but hey what the hell it's the 21rst century. you're allowed. if you want to be like that it's fine. and it's funny as hell too! LOL! ..b b.b. I forgot about your weird sense of humor. Try some nails tied to a rope - use it on your back. You'll love it!! LOL! ..g e.o. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 5, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 05, 2010 4:57 PM > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > BobN > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, April 05, 2010 4:22 PM > > Re: Jam in the market-place... > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > > > > through > > > > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought > > > > and > > > > so > > > > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house > > > > of > > > > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness > > > > and > > > > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none > > > > knows > > > > where. > > > > Now there is the aware-ing of this non-separable field of perceptions > > > > that > > > > includes thoughts.If there are thoughts..... they are just that: > > > > thoughts. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Hi Geo - > > > > > > Yes, it's an infinite regression. > > > > > > Due to self-reflexivity. > > > > > > Something referring to itself in order to refer to itself so it can > > > refer > > > to itself ... ad infinitum. > > > > > > This is how memories work. > > > > > > And because self is based in memory, it is how self works. > > > > > > Or is it that memory is based in self ...?? (I forget. <s>) > > > > > > And the same with thought. > > > > > > Because thought (linked with memory) is a self-referential infinite > > > regress, it is meaningless to say, " everything is a thought " or " there > > > is > > > only thought. " > > > > > > One reaches a point where it can't be said that " everything is ... " > > > anything. > > > > > > It is the point of the collapse of the infinite regress. > > > > > > Memory stops having anything to refer to. > > > > > > Memories occur spontaneously, without referring to anything. > > > > > > Thought happens. > > > > > > Words are spoken. > > > > > > The moment is undivided, pristine and " self-contained. " > > > > > > Not that it has a container, it doesn't. > > > > > > But it doesn't refer to anything, have anything outside of it - nor is > > > it > > > going anywhere. > > > > > > Just this perfect undivided moment. > > > > > > Peace. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > dabbo.. > > > > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > > > > playing with yourself like this? > > > > have you no shame at all? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > barbie... > > do you ACTUALLY spend your entire waking life... > > reading this forum's posts - that you you already know beforehand > > you will hate - like this? have you no shame at all? > > .g e.o. > > hate them???!!! > > hell geo lad i love them! > > they make my day because they make me laugh. > > do you really feel that joy and laughter.. > > should be considered shameful? > > you must lead a drab and sorrowful life. > > maybe your attitude comes from sour grapes? > > and what the hell are you doin' tryin' to play with a barbie doll? > > i'm beginning to have some ideas about what you may be geoparado. > > but hey what the hell it's the 21rst century. > > you're allowed. > > if you want to be like that it's fine. > > and it's funny as hell too! > > LOL! > > .b b.b. > > I forgot about your weird sense of humor. > Try some nails tied to a rope - use it on > your back. You'll love it!! > LOL! > .g e.o. see that? hahahahahahahaaaaa! there you go. that's what i'm talkin' 'bout.. that's our little goofy geo.. squishin'his feet in the grapes of wrath. sour grapes. that's why we forgive him. he can't help himself. and i promised not to tell. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > No investment in the past, which includes " space " as well -- as remembered. > > Not sure what you mean by " includes 'space' as well " ... > > Do you mean the sense of there being space is due to memory? > > - Dan - > Basically, yes... the notion of 'something out there', outside awareness. As it's memory, it isn't out there, outside awareness -- but arising 'here', as memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > D: Well, the notion that there is a separately existing being that uses the memory to get somewhere, isn't what actually occurs. That separable being who uses memory is a reference point for thought and memory, but there isn't anyone actually living there (as a separable being who wants to get to the grocery store). > > In fact, explanations are always in hindsight, when looking at what happened, at the past, and using memory. > > The person who used memory to get to the store is constructed in hindsight. > > In the present, there's no such separable being or person. > > So " getting to the grocery store, using memory to remember the location, buying milk, going home, using memory to remember where my house is, eating cereal with the milk I bought " - all of that is one, undivided action. > > The movement is ongoing, never stops - which is to say, is only present. > > Memory isn't separated out from it (the movement). > > And the movement is always present-only. Good point... well worth pointing out, IMO. And easily noticeable, if one is actually " being here now " . The present as undivided 'flow', or movement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > So from here, doesn't make sense to say that the world is assembled > through > thought in some human brain, because then " human " is also a thought and so > is " brain " . Having understood this infinite regression as in a house of > mirrors...there is a stop. Then there is only unthinkable awareness and > this unknowable manifestation/world/consciousness arising from none knows > where. this is similar to aristotle's theory on the proof of god's existence as the unmoved mover who started rolling things somewhere at some point. the problem with the nondual twist of this theory is that it assumes that awareness does not arise in human brain but everything arises out of this divine origin. this is really the basic indo-european mythology in that that the origins of humans is divine. we imagine ourselves as a person and we then imagine god as a person and seek our origins in the divine. sure, it's more interesting than the middle eastern model where the poor old me and god are totally separate but a world filled with buddhas can be just as annoying as the ones filled with ordinary humans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 6, 2010 This is my fictional jam in the market place: I am not at this market place to dwell, I just arrived here to depart again. I'm a well-stocked merchant, I sell intellectual concepts To all those who'll buy from my store. The truth is I'm not here to argue endlessly. Love is the mission of my life. ps. this is modified from yunus emre poetry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
