Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? To recapitulate: Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? Werner you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > To recapitulate: > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > Marc, I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > To recapitulate: > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > Marc, I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? Werner wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights).... maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... what do you think Werner? Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > Marc, > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights).... > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > what do you think Werner? > > > > Marc > Sorry, Marc, I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > Marc, > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > what do you think Werner? > > > > Marc > Sorry, Marc, I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? Werner everybody who has insights is reacting on them... this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... .... in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok .... i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights no choice about it then, anyway .... no choice...means no choice! .... means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out .... insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights .... So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) .... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > To recapitulate: > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner in your case nothing wernie poo. you'd be just as stupid without the stupid words that's all. and stop trying to read those silly Carlos Castaneda books. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > Werner well wernerina it's such a stupid question. there's nothing to observe in you that's " going on " . of course you don't need an observer. besides all observers of you can do is laugh. wordlessly. i mean when someone is as stupid as you.. what can be said? maybe you are " enlightned " (sic!).. whatever the hell that stupidity is supposed to indicate. :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > Werner > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... > > ... > > in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > ... > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > no choice about it then, anyway > > ... > > no choice...means no choice! > > ... > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > ... > > insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights > > ... > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > ... > > Marc > Ok, Marc, I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights).... > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > Werner it's a stupid question and doesn't deserve an answer. Hur! do we need a member like wernie poo? :-) ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... > > > > ... > > > > in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > > > ... > > > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > > > no choice about it then, anyway > > > > ... > > > > no choice...means no choice! > > > > ... > > > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > > > ... > > > > insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights > > > > ... > > > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > > Ok, Marc, > > I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. > > The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? > > Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? > > We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? > > That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? > > Werner you're doing it wernie because you want to find a friend in group. you know nobody likes you nor wants you around. it's a desperate attempt to ignore your called for vote results. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > Do you really expect me to tell you > when the premise is that I > cannot tell you > > -Lene > That is not the premise, Lene. Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. Werner > > > > > > Werner > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... > > > > ... > > > > in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > > > ... > > > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > > > no choice about it then, anyway > > > > ... > > > > no choice...means no choice! > > > > ... > > > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > > > ... > > > > insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights > > > > ... > > > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > > Ok, Marc, > > I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. > > The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? > > Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? > > We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? > > That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? > > Werner Lene exploding: Marc has offerred two perfectly seasoned answers to your questions, one of which was just brilliant but you keep asking and if it were not bad enough already you sweep away his answers by asking another question which is nothing to do with the original one. You and me have agreed a million times already which means you know very well the answer to the question above - that We word everything which is the same as communicating ourselves and it takes place in so many different forms that I shall refrain from listing them (Marc has mentioned a few) Because this is the way one relates and communes -- this here world. The strange thing is that it is, for me at least, impossible to say what came first, egg or hen. Was the word before we were or came it after - OR - the most plausible: are they the same. I'm suggesting that if the word was removed there would be no world. That is why say I In the beginning was the word. Before and after the word: nothing. No no no! World = word. No difference. Another word for it could be - action. -Ms Twopenny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta, " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu.... climbing the Everest... > > > > ... > > > > in this your question...it' s only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > > > ... > > > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > > > no choice about it then, anyway > > > > ... > > > > no choice...means no choice! > > > > ... > > > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > > > ... > > > > insights are always related to the person it concerns.... means to the one who got insights > > > > ... > > > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > > > ... > > > > Marc > > > > > Ok, Marc, > > I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. > > The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? > > Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? > > We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? > > That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? > > Werner as i told you....it's related to the person who get such insights him/herself .... so you could also ask.... " why do you do this & that " ?... " why do you need to write this & that " ? .... as far you also could observe, Werner... depending the person....different amounts of insights are coming out (in words or however) .... would say that such insights are coming out because it's on the path to get more clearness....one day .... So, the people who after some path....get mainly quite and calm.....don't getting any great insights anymore.....because of no more need..... finally have more space to enjoy life...in which endless words aren't anymore necessary .... Sure...some cases are extremely hard..... They get addicted to insights and insights and insights and insights...... Or...they enter the business and circles and groups of people who all share fantastic insights....endlessly....and therefore are sooo happy and proud with/about each....sharing many many words.....with other fools of same kind........creating endless number of worlds filled up with Nothing realy....clapping in their hands...chanting....shouting..... and...of course....writing some nice books.... about all this endless non-sense....they are filling endlessly up their imaginary worlds .... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 I'm suggesting that if the word was removed there would be no world. That is why say I In the beginning was the word. Before and after the word: nothing. No no no! World = word. No difference. Another word for it could be - action. -Ms Twopenny you mean.... bubbles = world ... yes, what else!?! .... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > > > > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > > > > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > > > > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... > > > > > > ... > > > > > > in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > > > > > ... > > > > > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > > > > > no choice about it then, anyway > > > > > > ... > > > > > > no choice...means no choice! > > > > > > ... > > > > > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > > > > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > > > > > ... > > > > > > insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights > > > > > > ... > > > > > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > > > > > ... > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Ok, Marc, > > > > I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. > > > > The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? > > > > Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? > > > > We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? > > > > That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? > > > > Werner > > > you're doing it wernie because you want to find a friend in group. > > you know nobody likes you nor wants you around. > > it's a desperate attempt to ignore your called for vote results. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. not true - i like him - w and me go back a long way and he has actually helped me a lot over the years our separation began when he became a brainscientist lol he is an extremely strongheaded hun but his heart is watery and green and soft as a cucumber bun -attila's cyberspacial friend- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > > > Do you really expect me to tell you > > when the premise is that I > > cannot tell you > > > > -Lene > > > > > That is not the premise, Lene. > > Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. What is the answer? You said: imagine! I imagined I no longer translated insights into words and there was silence And I could not tell you -Lene Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > > > Do you really expect me to tell you > > when the premise is that I > > cannot tell you > > > > -Lene > > > > > That is not the premise, Lene. > > Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. > > Werner wernie you are a little worm no one is afraid of at all. you're the little coward and you know it. all you ever do is call others cowards from your wormhole. and then you sink back ion the mud when your stepped on. i like this new name: wernie the wonder worm! LOL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You surely already have observed when you have an insight you instantly translate it verbally, you put it into words. > > > > > > > > > > > > An insight happens without words. It doesn't need words. It is a result of the brain's subconscious intelligence, a result of an unconscious innner work which constantly goes on and which is done without using any words. > > > > > > > > > > > > But why do we constantly and instantly translate any inisght into words as soon as it became conscious ? > > > > > > > > > > > > To recapitulate: > > > > > > > > > > > > Insights are already conscious, why then this additional verbal translation ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean like the cow Lakshmi....the enlightened cow of Ramana?... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what happens is a cow, enlightned or not. > > > > > > > > > > But I do observe what happens in me. I don't need a cow, or a cat, a dog or a caterpillar scrabbling on a leave to observe what's going on in me. > > > > > > > > > > You still haven't answered the question: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight into words - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wait...i imagine detective bbb, as for example....just keeping calm.....without any words (translation of any insights)... . > > > > > > > > > > maybe after a while....he would explode like a nuclear bomb!!??... > > > > > > > > > > what do you think Werner? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Marc, > > > > > > > > I am not intresseted in gossiping, neither about Bob nor about anyone else. > > > > > > > > But I am interested to have that question answered: Imagine you no longer would translate any insight instantly into words (which is an automatism which constantly is going on) - what then would happen ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > everybody who has insights is reacting on them... > > > > > > > > this can be words....travel to Honolulu....climbing the Everest... > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > in this your question...it's only about to translate insights in words?...ok > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > i think that the concerned person will react in words so on this his/her insights > > > > > > > > no choice about it then, anyway > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > no choice...means no choice! > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > means...if that person wouldn't translate the insights in words.... > > > > > > > > it wouldn't give space for other evtl. insights coming out > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > insights are always related to the person it concerns....means to the one who got insights > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > So Werner....i don't think that's even possible to don't translate insights in words....(for the people who are into words....means, not into climbing mountains or fighting or swimming or shouting or reading non dual forums and groups etc etc etc) > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, Marc, > > > > > > I see you tried to find an answer and you also realized this obvious fact that one (and probably everyone, included myself) constantly and instantly is translating any insight into words. > > > > > > The question is not if we can end it but WHY are we doing that ? > > > > > > Why this instataneous verbal translation of any insight ? > > > > > > We already have that insight and it is conscious but WHY this additional putting it into words ? > > > > > > That is the question, WHY are we doing that ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > you're doing it wernie because you want to find a friend in group. > > > > you know nobody likes you nor wants you around. > > > > it's a desperate attempt to ignore your called for vote results. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > not true - i like him - w and me go back a long way > and he has actually helped me a lot > over the years > our separation began when he became a brainscientist > lol > he is an extremely strongheaded hun but his heart is > watery and green and soft as a cucumber bun > > -attila's cyberspacial friend- i like him as a pet worm myself. but i also enjoy stepping on him. i would hate to use him as bait. no fish worth it's salt would bite on that little asshole. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 you're doing it wernie because you want to find a friend in group. > > > > you know nobody likes you nor wants you around. > > > > it's a desperate attempt to ignore your called for vote results. > > > > LOL! > > > > .b b.b. > > > > not true - i like him - w and me go back a long way > and he has actually helped me a lot > over the years > our separation began when he became a brainscientist > lol > he is an extremely strongheaded hun but his heart is > watery and green and soft as a cucumber bun > > -attila's cyberspacial friend- i like him as a pet worm myself. but i also enjoy stepping on him. i would hate to use him as bait. no fish worth it's salt would bite on that little asshole. ..b b.b. i think that insights & words don't change anything on Lakshmis enlightenment.... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > That is not the premise, Lene. > > > > Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. > > > > What is the answer? > > You said: imagine! > > I imagined I no longer translated insights into words > and there was silence > > And I could not tell you > > -Lene > Lene, Watch it, you are alone in a forest, no one is with you, totally alone. And yet you constantly and instantly are translating any insight into words, no one around you could tell it to. If you stopped that strange behavior there won't be silence. All the sounds of the forest will be still there. You can hear your breath, feel your body, smell what the air is carrying to you. The only which you stopped is translating anything you see, hear, feel, smell into words. Why the hell are we doing that, even when we are totally alone ? Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > I imagined I no longer translated insights into words > and there was silence > > And I could not tell you > > -Lene > > I don't understand this translating insights thing. I translate insights if there is the drive to communicate it to another who thinks he is a fragment. Then there is a kind of orbiting movement around one-ness - which includes the words spoken/written, for words are not other then this one-ness. The words are never a substitute of one-ness by themselves, but part of it, non separate from the non-fragmented movement. > If the intention to communicate is not there, translating it into words is the ending of the insight and the resuming of the old as the thought of separation. > -ego- Agreed - more or less; this is not the time to begin speculating. But it is just the usual stuff, Geo: perception without words can or cannot be communicated/expressed. But the perception itself is communication already, so there. I don't know. Gotta be on me way. Ah -- to me there is no difference between perception and insight. Some would say insight means understanding - or this aha! feeling this is an extraordinary form of perception - exorbitant, unusual. Later -Lene PS. By translating I think Werner meant communicating/ reporting. Not sure. Perhaps he meant interpretation. I give up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the premise, Lene. > > > > > > Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. > > > > > > > > What is the answer? > > > > You said: imagine! > > > > I imagined I no longer translated insights into words > > and there was silence > > > > And I could not tell you > > > > -Lene > > > > > Lene, > > Watch it, you are alone in a forest, no one is with you, totally alone. > > And yet you constantly and instantly are translating any insight into words, no one around you could tell it to. > > If you stopped that strange behavior there won't be silence. All the sounds of the forest will be still there. You can hear your breath, feel your body, smell what the air is carrying to you. > > The only which you stopped is translating anything you see, hear, feel, smell into words. > > Why the hell are we doing that, even when we are totally alone ? > > Werner wernie worm.. you are alone. nobody else is. look at the votes wormie. take a clue. oh wait! you don't have a clue to enable you to absorb another one. what do you say little coward? oops.. that would take words. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > I imagined I no longer translated insights into words > > and there was silence > > > > And I could not tell you > > > > -Lene > > > > I don't understand this translating insights thing. I translate insights if there is the drive to communicate it to another who thinks he is a fragment. Then there is a kind of orbiting movement around one-ness - which includes the words spoken/written, for words are not other then this one-ness. The words are never a substitute of one-ness by themselves, but part of it, non separate from the non-fragmented movement. > > If the intention to communicate is not there, translating it into words is the ending of the insight and the resuming of the old as the thought of separation. > > -ego- > > > > Agreed - more or less; this is not the time to begin speculating. > > But it is just the usual stuff, Geo: perception without words can > or cannot be communicated/expressed. But the perception itself is > communication already, so there. I don't know. Gotta be on me way. > > Ah -- to me there is no difference between perception and insight. > Some would say insight means understanding - or this aha! feeling > this is an extraordinary form of perception - exorbitant, unusual. > > Later > > -Lene > > PS. By translating I think Werner meant communicating/ reporting. > Not sure. Perhaps he meant interpretation. I give up. i think he meant and he's even saying: " PLEASE somebody PLEASE help me.. i'm so f*cking alone! PLEASE you stupid people.. acknowledge me. i'm the best worm in the world " ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 I imagined I no longer translated insights into wordsand there was silenceAnd I could not tell you-Lene I don't understand this translating insights thing. I translate insights if there is the drive to communicate it to another who thinks he is a fragment. Then there is a kind of orbiting movement around one-ness - which includes the words spoken/written, for words are not other then this one-ness. The words are never a substitute of one-ness by themselves, but part of it, non separate from the non-fragmented movement. If the intention to communicate is not there, translating it into words is the ending of the insight and the resuming of the old as the thought of separation. -ego- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 26, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is not the premise, Lene. > > > > > > > > Surely you could tell it but you don't dare to face the answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the answer? > > > > > > You said: imagine! > > > > > > I imagined I no longer translated insights into words > > > and there was silence > > > > > > And I could not tell you > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > > Lene, > > > > Watch it, you are alone in a forest, no one is with you, totally alone. > > > > And yet you constantly and instantly are translating any insight into words, no one around you could tell it to. > > > > If you stopped that strange behavior there won't be silence. All the sounds of the forest will be still there. You can hear your breath, feel your body, smell what the air is carrying to you. > > > > The only which you stopped is translating anything you see, hear, feel, smell into words. > > > > Why the hell are we doing that, even when we are totally alone ? > > > > Werner > > > P: This is a very important topic, Werner, thanks for asking. I guess, Leni won't like my brainy answer, but if you want to understand 'no self' you have to see how different parts of the brain draw a self, just as different Disney's artists contribute to make a cartoon. To give a correct answer to your question, we have to see there is no " self " living in the brain. There are just different brain centers communicating with each other. The main communicator and translator in chief is the speech center. It's important to see that there is a constant conversation going on in the brain among different brain centers, and that insights often get translated into images, sounds, sensations, and feelings, but it's only when translated into words that they become available to the reasoning center, and get incorporated into the self- model called Werner. The self model represents the urge to posses and to hoard. So, we can only imagine that translation could cease. It's not going to happen, at least, not for long. Sooner or later all insights get translated and corrupted by words. The ones that don't, fade into the subconscious. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
