Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand that > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the mind > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > Very nice. > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > - D - > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that way. Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to be 'part' of you " ... But I liked it, just the same. Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside refer, which you are saying is not? -- D -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand that > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the mind > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that way. > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to be 'part' of you " ... > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > refer, which you are saying is not? > > -- D -- Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:42 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > douglasmitch1963 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:25 PM > > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Geo, the reason that Ramesh uses the concept " consciousness at rest " to > > > describe the Absolute (another concept) is that all there is, is > > > consciousness, whether at rest or in motion. Perhaps you should ask him > > > why > > > he chooses to use consciousness at rest instead of some other > > > concept...geesh! > > > -doug- > > > > > > Geesh? > > > Maybe you feel this is just about nomeclture, to find some identical > > > name > > > for IT (what a joke). No. Where we not considering the depth, > > > significance - if any, of the question " will consciousness stir again > > > when > > > the body kicks? " Sorry for having disturbed you. > > > -geo- > > > > > Geo, sorry for the short patience...one of those mornings. > > -doug- > > > > No problem. Taking the lead to make a turn in the conversation. Why do we > > fall asleep? What does it mean? > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand > > that > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the > > mind > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps > > then > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > -geo- > > Geo - > > Consider this: > > Energy is moving always. > > Not as separate pieces, but as undivided movement, in which the movement and > the space of the movement are one. > > This movement is through and as everything, including the body-mind. > > This is what " awareness " is. > > The body-mind can't catch it, conceptualize it, sense it, feel it, embody > it, or be it in any way. > > And yet, there is nothing but this. > > It constitutes the body-mind system along with everything else, moment to > moment. > > It has no duration. > > It has no abiding place, no self, no outside or others. > > The reason I am saying this is that there is nothing for " consciousness " to > learn about itself. There is nothing consciousness needs to know about what > happens when it sleeps or wakes up, or what it is made of or what it does or > doesn't do. > > Does this make sense? > -dan- > > Yes and no. The mind may un-learn its animal instincts that makes perception > be focused on things as if " outside " . There is a relatively gradual > un-learning process in the brain cells. > -geo- > > Consciousness, whatever you construe that to be, is just an idea you have. > > The actuality of knowing (of consciousness, awareness, subjectivity, > comprehension) ... > > Is the energy itself. > > It already is knowing. > > Without exception, without question, without needing to know anything about > anything. > > That is, no " objective " knowledge is involved. > > No objective knowledge about what consciousness is or does, or about > anything else. > > Objective knowledge is a fiction. A worldly fiction based on accumulation > and manipulation of things in the world. Which is for selves. > > - D - > > Yes I understand.....although I dont know what " objective " knowledge you are > referring to. D: Knowledge about objects, which is defined by the subjects who study those objects. Anyway there is no knowledge of any kind involved. Right now > there is no impediment for this wholeness. But then suddenly there > is.....and its not a big issue at all. Not important. > Funny...I keep telling people the same thing you wrote here....it is so, > nonetheless sometimes I feel orfan. D: Do you mean orphan - like a motherless child? One walks this way alone, indeed. Unborn, but hopefully not ill-conceived. ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > D: Do you mean orphan - like a motherless child? > > One walks this way alone, indeed. > > Unborn, but hopefully not ill-conceived. > > ;-) LOL... :-D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:15 PM Re: Consciousness at rest Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:42 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > douglasmitch1963 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:25 PM > > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Geo, the reason that Ramesh uses the concept " consciousness at rest " > > > to > > > describe the Absolute (another concept) is that all there is, is > > > consciousness, whether at rest or in motion. Perhaps you should ask > > > him > > > why > > > he chooses to use consciousness at rest instead of some other > > > concept...geesh! > > > -doug- > > > > > > Geesh? > > > Maybe you feel this is just about nomeclture, to find some identical > > > name > > > for IT (what a joke). No. Where we not considering the depth, > > > significance - if any, of the question " will consciousness stir again > > > when > > > the body kicks? " Sorry for having disturbed you. > > > -geo- > > > > > Geo, sorry for the short patience...one of those mornings. > > -doug- > > > > No problem. Taking the lead to make a turn in the conversation. Why do > > we > > fall asleep? What does it mean? > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand > > that > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the > > mind > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps > > then > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > -geo- > > Geo - > > Consider this: > > Energy is moving always. > > Not as separate pieces, but as undivided movement, in which the movement > and > the space of the movement are one. > > This movement is through and as everything, including the body-mind. > > This is what " awareness " is. > > The body-mind can't catch it, conceptualize it, sense it, feel it, embody > it, or be it in any way. > > And yet, there is nothing but this. > > It constitutes the body-mind system along with everything else, moment to > moment. > > It has no duration. > > It has no abiding place, no self, no outside or others. > > The reason I am saying this is that there is nothing for " consciousness " > to > learn about itself. There is nothing consciousness needs to know about > what > happens when it sleeps or wakes up, or what it is made of or what it does > or > doesn't do. > > Does this make sense? > -dan- > > Yes and no. The mind may un-learn its animal instincts that makes > perception > be focused on things as if " outside " . There is a relatively gradual > un-learning process in the brain cells. > -geo- > > Consciousness, whatever you construe that to be, is just an idea you have. > > The actuality of knowing (of consciousness, awareness, subjectivity, > comprehension) ... > > Is the energy itself. > > It already is knowing. > > Without exception, without question, without needing to know anything > about > anything. > > That is, no " objective " knowledge is involved. > > No objective knowledge about what consciousness is or does, or about > anything else. > > Objective knowledge is a fiction. A worldly fiction based on accumulation > and manipulation of things in the world. Which is for selves. > > - D - > > Yes I understand.....although I dont know what " objective " knowledge you > are > referring to. D: Knowledge about objects, which is defined by the subjects who study those objects. Anyway there is no knowledge of any kind involved. Right now > there is no impediment for this wholeness. But then suddenly there > is.....and its not a big issue at all. Not important. > Funny...I keep telling people the same thing you wrote here....it is so, > nonetheless sometimes I feel orfan. D: Do you mean orphan - like a motherless child? One walks this way alone, indeed. Unborn, but hopefully not ill-conceived. ;-) LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:14 PM Re: Consciousness at rest Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. > > > > > Our > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > understand that > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that > > > > > the mind > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside > > > > you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is > > > > the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it > > that way. > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to > be 'part' of you " ... > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > refer, which you are saying is not? > > -- D -- Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. -t- This is fundamental to the way people live this life. " Inside " is ..........geeeeezzz.....believe it or not I thought it was clear to me but I can do it LOL LOL LOL I was going to say it is related to the tactile sensations of the body, but there is nothing...absolutely nothing manifested that does not affect the body sensorialy. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:51 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > Yes, words don't need to be excluded. > > -t- > > > > Nothing excluded, nothing included, nothing more or less important...and > > if > > it happens that something more important arises - that is not important > > either. > > -geo- > > True. > > And if it happens that focusing arises, that is not important either. > > - D - > > Yes. Nothing is static. The focusing-unfocusing undergoes its own dinamic > dance and may change with impersonal understanding. > -geo- I agree. Because there isn't any separate being doing the focusing, or going to benefit from it. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:47 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand > > > > that > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the > > > > mind > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, > > > coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end > > > of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > Very nice. > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > - D - > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that > way. > -t- > > > That is what I wanted to say: what outside and inside? > -geo- That which is outside the skin of a body, and that which is inside the skin of a body. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand that > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the mind > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that way. > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to be 'part' of you " ... > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > > refer, which you are saying is not? > > > > -- D -- > > Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. Well, usually they refer to inside of the skin of a body-mind, and what is outside of the skin. I agree it is kind of loose, the way these words are used, inside and outside. So, what is outside of the skin of a particular body mind is inside you. What is inside the skin is equally outside to you as anything and everything else. So, indeed, you have no inside or outside to who you are. You aren't located. Which means awareness isn't coming from a point inside to apprehend things outside. And as things appear, they aren't being apprehended by an awareness that is situated somewhere in relation to them. Which is kinda mysterious, in a good way... - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand that > > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the mind > > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that way. > > > > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to be 'part' of you " ... > > > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > > > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > > > refer, which you are saying is not? > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. > > Well, usually they refer to inside of the skin of a body-mind, and what is outside of the skin. I agree it is kind of loose, the way these words are used, inside and outside. > > So, what is outside of the skin of a particular body mind is inside > you. > > What is inside the skin is equally outside to you as anything and > everything else. I guess it sorta makes sense to say that what's inside the skin is " outside " , as it's never 'seen', only surmised based on what one has been told (e.g. the brain, the organs, etc). And memories, e.g. in terms of mental pictures, are very vague. So OK, it makes some sense to say what's outside is inside, and what's inside is outside ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:23 PM Re: Consciousness at rest Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. > > > > > Our > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > understand that > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that > > > > > the mind > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside > > > > you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is > > > > the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it > > that way. > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to > be 'part' of you " ... > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any inside or > outside, then to what do the words inside and outside refer, which you are > saying is not? > > -- D -- P.S. you said " what is inside, is the outside " . Is this to suggest that thoughts are not 'in' awareness? Ya see what I'm getting at now? I don't know about the suggestion that thoughts, feelings, etc. are one's outside. Outside what?? -t- Now more carefully looking at this could be said that only the unchanging quality-less is the real inside...and all the changing consciousness with its qualities is the outside. But this does not apply to the common sense idea of inside-outside. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:30 PM Re: Consciousness at rest Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:47 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. > > > > Our > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > understand > > > > that > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that > > > > the > > > > mind > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, > > > coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the > > > end > > > of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > Very nice. > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > - D - > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that > way. > -t- > > > That is what I wanted to say: what outside and inside? > -geo- That which is outside the skin of a body, and that which is inside the skin of a body. - D - Not quite. LOL Close your eyes, touch an object. Is not the object parat of your skin? A moving part. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:39 PM Re: Consciousness at rest Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to > > > > > > > concerns. Our > > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > > > understand that > > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and > > > > > > > that the mind > > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some > > > > > > > thoughts.... > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside > > > > > > you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. > > > > > > That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at > > > > it that way. > > > > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming > > > to be 'part' of you " ... > > > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > > > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > > > refer, which you are saying is not? > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really > > don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. > > Well, usually they refer to inside of the skin of a body-mind, and what is > outside of the skin. I agree it is kind of loose, the way these words are > used, inside and outside. > > So, what is outside of the skin of a particular body mind is inside > you. > > What is inside the skin is equally outside to you as anything and > everything else. I guess it sorta makes sense to say that what's inside the skin is " outside " , as it's never 'seen', only surmised based on what one has been told (e.g. the brain, the organs, etc). And memories, e.g. in terms of mental pictures, are very vague. So OK, it makes some sense to say what's outside is inside, and what's inside is outside ;-). -t- I swear to god I dont understand what is inside or outside or the opposite. No kidding. Anything in order to be touches the senses. Why would the sense objects be different from the senses themselves? What is the fundamental difference between " retina " and " waving retina due to a vison of some object " ? Between " skin " and moving skin due to touching? ETc...to all senses. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > I swear to god I dont understand what is inside or outside or the > opposite. > No kidding. I believe ya... and it really doesn't matter. It's all " inside " awareness. Everything. Even if one surmises that something is happening outside awareness, that surmisal is 'inside' awareness too. So, there's no outside, cannot be, never has been, never will be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. Our > > > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we understand that > > > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that the mind > > > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to be 'part' of you " ... > > > > > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > > > > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > > > > refer, which you are saying is not? > > > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. > > > > Well, usually they refer to inside of the skin of a body-mind, and what is outside of the skin. I agree it is kind of loose, the way these words are used, inside and outside. > > > > So, what is outside of the skin of a particular body mind is inside > you. > > > > What is inside the skin is equally outside to you as anything and > > everything else. > > I guess it sorta makes sense to say that what's inside the skin is " outside " , as it's never 'seen', only surmised based on what one has been told (e.g. the brain, the organs, etc). > > And memories, e.g. in terms of mental pictures, are very vague. > > So OK, it makes some sense to say what's outside is inside, and what's inside is outside ;-). LOL. Well, it made sense to the Beatles, what can I say: " Your inside is out, and your outside is in, so come on ... " (Everybody's Got Something to Hide, Except Me and My Monkey) Come on is such a joy, come on is such a joy. Come on and take it easy, come on and take it easy ... Smiles from outside of you or inside of me, or is it from inside of you and outside of me ... " Nothing to get hung about ... " - Dan - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:23 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. > > > > > > Our > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > > understand that > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that > > > > > > the mind > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside > > > > > you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is > > > > > the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it > > > that way. > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming to > > be 'part' of you " ... > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any inside or > > outside, then to what do the words inside and outside refer, which you are > > saying is not? > > > > -- D -- > > P.S. you said " what is inside, is the outside " . Is this to suggest that > thoughts are not 'in' awareness? Ya see what I'm getting at now? I don't > know about the suggestion that thoughts, feelings, etc. are one's outside. > Outside what?? > -t- Outside in the sense of neti, neti. Awareness is not this, not that. The important thing is the equality of all arisings. So yes, there is nothing special about a thought or feeling arising. It is not more " mine " than anything else. It is not " closer " to me than a car riding down the street. That is the point to saying it is " outside, " not that it is outside of something. > Now more carefully looking at this could be said that only the unchanging > quality-less is the real inside...and all the changing consciousness with > its qualities is the outside. But this does not apply to the common sense > idea of inside-outside. Exactly so. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > Outside in the sense of neti, neti. > > Awareness is not this, not that. > > The important thing is the equality of all arisings. > > So yes, there is nothing special about a thought or feeling arising. > > It is not more " mine " than anything else. > > It is not " closer " to me than a car riding down the street. Agree completely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:30 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 6:47 PM > > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to concerns. > > > > > Our > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > understand > > > > > that > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and that > > > > > the > > > > > mind > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some thoughts.... > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside you, > > > > coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. That is the > > > > end > > > > of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at it that > > way. > > -t- > > > > > > That is what I wanted to say: what outside and inside? > > -geo- > > That which is outside the skin of a body, and that which is inside the skin > of a body. > > - D - > > Not quite. LOL > Close your eyes, touch an object. Is not the object parat of your skin? A > moving part. > -geo- Sure. And the letters appearing on the screen are part of your eyes. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:39 PM > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel it is a kind of focusing of the mind...related to > > > > > > > > concerns. Our > > > > > > > > concerns are the guidelines of our life. Is it that once we > > > > > > > > understand that > > > > > > > > consciousness IS awareness patterning, is just its waves, and > > > > > > > > that the mind > > > > > > > > can not do anything about it...help it...observe > > > > > > > > it..nothing....perhaps then > > > > > > > > it remains quiet. And that is awakening. Just some > > > > > > > > thoughts.... > > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Awakening is just your " other " half, what you take to be outside > > > > > > > you, coming to be a part of you, to be 'inside' you as well. > > > > > > > That is the end of being a center, as there's no periphery. > > > > > > > > > > > > Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is outside of you is inside. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is inside, is the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > Well, really there's no inside or outside... but one could look at > > > > > it that way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I could be nitpicky about what you said, too. > > > > > > > > I could say something like, " well, there really isn't anything coming > > > > to be 'part' of you " ... > > > > > > > > But I liked it, just the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just for fun, let me ask you this: if you say there isn't any > > > > inside or outside, then to what do the words inside and outside > > > > refer, which you are saying is not? > > > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > Conventional meanings, such as " a feeling inside " , I s'pose. I really > > > don't know... whatever folks take the words to mean. > > > > Well, usually they refer to inside of the skin of a body-mind, and what is > > outside of the skin. I agree it is kind of loose, the way these words are > > used, inside and outside. > > > > So, what is outside of the skin of a particular body mind is inside > you. > > > > What is inside the skin is equally outside to you as anything and > > everything else. > > I guess it sorta makes sense to say that what's inside the skin is > " outside " , as it's never 'seen', only surmised based on what one has been > told (e.g. the brain, the organs, etc). > > And memories, e.g. in terms of mental pictures, are very vague. > > So OK, it makes some sense to say what's outside is inside, and what's > inside is outside ;-). > -t- > > I swear to god I dont understand what is inside or outside or the opposite. > No kidding. > Anything in order to be touches the senses. Why would the sense objects be > different from the senses themselves? > What is the fundamental difference between " retina " and " waving retina due > to a vison of some object " ? > Between " skin " and moving skin due to touching? ETc...to all senses. > -geo- It's also clear that you understand how to use the skin of your body-mind to differentiate inside and outside. It's required by conventional speech and relationships. You don't go to a doctor because your neighbor has a kidney stone, and it's important in conventional terms and situations that you understand what is your inside and what is someone else's. But yes, when observed without bias, the boundary isn't there in any directly perceived way. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > It's also clear that you understand how to use the skin of your body-> mind to differentiate inside and outside. > > It's required by conventional speech and relationships. I wouldn't word it that way -- " I know how to use the skin of my body/mind " . Whatever " knowledge " is required, arises by itself. There isn't a knower, knowing how to use something, nor is anything " being used " . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > douglasmitch1963 > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:15 AM > > > > > > Re: Consciousness at rest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was pondering. " Consciousness at rest " does not carry the implication > > > > > > > that when the body dies and consciousness " goes to rest " that it will > > > > > > > eventually wake up and manifest again? > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Absolute (consciousness at rest) is actualizing/manifesting new forms of > > > > > > consciousness all the time. Although this is not reincarnation. It is the > > > > > > incarnation of consciousness. This is consciousness in motion. > > > > > > -doug- > > > > > > > > > > > > The way you put it " absolute " and " consciousness at rest " seem indeed to be > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > Another interesting question....and I am not denying or accepting. What are > > > > > > the basis for the " statement " , or what makes one say, that consciousness at > > > > > > rest will awake again? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > Geo, are you talking on a personal level when you ask about whether consciousness at rest will re-awaken? Consciousness is impersonal whether at rest or in motion. If you wonder if consciousness at rest will reawaken, that is its apparent nature...just observe the new conscious forms appearing all the time. This is the lila of consciousness. Of course in reality there is neither creation nor destruction. It's all an illusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consciousness is personal > > > > > > > > awareness is impersonal > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > to take consciousness for awareness....to mix up both....is of/by illusion > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > awareness isn't illusion > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > consciousness is necessary to be in/by/within/of illusion > > > > ..related to an illusory " somebody " .... " you " ... " me " ....etc... > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness is necessary....to wake up... > > > > again...and again.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > I like the way you used the terms above. I admit the reason I like it, is that I tend to use these words similarly. It makes sense to me to differentiate a " consciousness " of the past, that involves contents, that is from a position and has a direction, with " awareness " that is not of the past, has no contents, and has no position or direction. > > > > > > It is funny to me to watch people battling over which words to use, and trying to end the use of certain words they don't like: awareness, self, Jesus, whatever. > > > > > > As if the problem was a certain word being used. > > > > > > Instead, one can read through the words and hear the silent unspoken sound of what is. > > > > > > You can call what is anything you like: consciousness, awareness, self, interdependent co-arising, no-self, being, no-being, nothing, everything. > > > > > > It doesn't matter what you call that which has no name. There have been hundreds of ways to talk about what can't be said, and there will be hundred more. > > > > > > What matters is what some Buddhists call " getting off the wheel. " > > > > > > You don't get off the wheel by removing yourself from it. > > > > > > You get off of it in the midst of its turning, by being it, and therefore simply being aware, now. > > > > > > - Dan - > > > > > > > yes, Dan > > > > > > true, it isn't about words.... > > > > yes, it's necessary to make the difference between " consciousness " and " awareness " (consciousness at rest)....or whatever the used words in order to talk about it > > > > > > ... > > > > " You don't get off the wheel by removing yourself from it. > > > > > > You get off of it in the midst of its turning, by being it, and therefore simply being aware, now. " > > > > > > if there weren't this fictions " you " , " me " ..... " we " couldn't talk about awareness, yes > > > > to talk about awareness is to talk about our common real Self > > > > to talk about awareness is to leave the fictions of " you " , " me " .... " spiritual clown XY " .... " enlightened entity " ....etc.....etc.....in order to Be, now, here > > > > peace > > > > > > Marc > > Yes, I agree. > > And, when awareness is " full " and " empty " ... > > There is no commonality of Self, nothing joined by it or in it, > > and therefore no sense of Self to it ... > > just " what is. " > > > - D - > yes " what is " = peace ...... consciousness = content = illusion = moving mind = ego = world = concepts = theories = birds = lions = fishes = apples =......etc etc ..... " what is " = peace = awareness marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > consciousness = content = illusion = moving mind = ego = world = > concepts = theories = birds = lions = fishes = apples =......etc etc It isn't so much that " the content of consciousness is an illusion " , it's that, being ever in motion, ever in a state of flux, it never came into existence. Time never froze, in order for something to " be " in a steady-state of continuity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > consciousness = content = illusion = moving mind = ego = world = > > concepts = theories = birds = lions = fishes = apples =......etc etc > > It isn't so much that " the content of consciousness is an illusion " , it's that, being ever in motion, ever in a state of flux, it never came into existence. Time never froze, in order for something to " be " in a steady-state of continuity. > Tim, To state that content is an illusion needs the separation between the content and the one who recognize it as an illusion. Who is that who makes such statements ? Is it the owner of clarity and truth ? Is it 'you' ? Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > consciousness = content = illusion = moving mind = ego = world = > > concepts = theories = birds = lions = fishes = apples =......etc etc > > It isn't so much that " the content of consciousness is an illusion " , it's that, being ever in motion, ever in a state of flux, it never came into existence. Time never froze, in order for something to " be " in a steady-state of continuity. > i know.... it's hard for all this enlightened ones.....who are much attached to this their imaginary content of enlightenment....and so, of this their " Tim " ...or " ... " ....etc... i know i know... it's hard for this people... but that's life!! for this people... i know i know... Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 9, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > consciousness = content = illusion = moving mind = ego = world = > > > concepts = theories = birds = lions = fishes = apples =......etc etc > > > > It isn't so much that " the content of consciousness is an illusion " , it's that, being ever in motion, ever in a state of flux, it never came into existence. Time never froze, in order for something to " be " in a steady-state of continuity. > > > > > i know.... > > it's hard for all this enlightened ones.....who are much attached to this their imaginary content of enlightenment....and so, of this their " Tim " ...or " ... " ....etc... > > i know i know... > > it's hard for this people... > > but that's life!! > > for this people... > > i know i know... > > > > > Marc > Ps: some are even soo much lost in this their imaginary big big world......made of illusions..... that they regularly need to melt down mountains of illusions.... again and again.... by sooo much love...and love and love and Love..... and love...and more love...and love....and more love.... and Love....LOVE....and... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
