Guest guest Report post Posted August 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:18 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 1:58 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > geo > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:58 AM > > > Re: Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > geo > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:47 AM > > > Re: Re: Stary Night > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 AM > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:12 PM > > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:06 PM > > > > > Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stars and neutrinos...swirling. > > > > > > > > > > Everything flowing into everything. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Who knows that? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look........see. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > > > > > To recognize the unchanging, one contrasts the unchanging with change. > > > > > > To recognize who notices this, one contrasts a who, with everything that > > > isn't that who. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > That is indeed the way thought functions - it compares. It is not > > > thought > > > that sees the unchanging this. > > > > > > The unchanging is not seen, no.... the unchanging is is-ness. No > > > words....too obvious for them. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Only the mind could come up with something like the " unchanging " and > > believe > > that reality corresponds to its label. > > > > toombaru > > > > It is not a matter for the thinking mind. Thought is a fragment. > > -geo- > > > > Is that what you think? > > toombaru > > That thought is a limited fragment? No....no need for thought to see....it > is seen. > -geo- > No. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a location: The body ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't negllect the body referenc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I say neglect it, until it vanishes as a reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It won't work, Tim, because who should be the neglector ? > > > > > > > > > > I already repeated it a dozend times, the psyche is much stronger than concepts and ideas. To decondition a lifelong conditioning like the body reference just with the help of a concept is impossible. > > > > > > > > > > Thats btw the reason why I so often critisized Advaita and all its non-dual concepts. They are of no use and won't work, similar like casting a spell at warts to get rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > You mean, they won't work for you. > > > > > > > > Because you're using them to try to fix something. > > > > > > > > And they are for the opposite - not to give a fix. > > > > > > > > But to show the uselessness of trying to fix things. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh Dan, > > > > > > you think by tricking the joker into my pockets it will free you from all those lies and concepts you head is cramped full with ? > > > > > > There is only one insight possible: We are helpless and can do nothing. All else is cheating onself and others. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Werner - > > > > Believing you're omniscient only makes you a substitute for the god you don't believe in - so not much improvement with that strategy for your personal religion. > > > > And please don't get too upset about feeling vulnerable - you're not as helpless as you think. > > > > Take heart - whatever other shortcomings you may have, you're clearly still able to type and pontificate. You probably can even make yourself a meal when you're hungry and I bet you still know how to shower when you're dirty. See? Rumors of your helplessness have been greatly exaggerated. > > > > > > - D - > > > Re: Stary Night > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, Toomb, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is a location: The body ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't negllect the body referenc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I say neglect it, until it vanishes as a reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It won't work, Tim, because who should be the neglector ? > > > > > > > > > > I already repeated it a dozend times, the psyche is much stronger than > concepts and ideas. To decondition a lifelong conditioning like the body > reference just with the help of a concept is impossible. > > > > > > > > > > Thats btw the reason why I so often critisized Advaita and all its > non-dual concepts. They are of no use and won't work, similar like casting a > spell at warts to get rid of them. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > You mean, they won't work for you. > > > > > > > > Because you're using them to try to fix something. > > > > > > > > And they are for the opposite - not to give a fix. > > > > > > > > But to show the uselessness of trying to fix things. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh Dan, > > > > > > you think by tricking the joker into my pockets it will free you from all > those lies and concepts you head is cramped full with ? > > > > > > There is only one insight possible: We are helpless and can do nothing. All > else is cheating onself and others. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Werner - > > > > Believing you're omniscient only makes you a substitute for the god you don't > believe in - so not much improvement with that strategy for your personal > religion. > > > Dan, > > Does one need to be omniescent to see that religions and philosophies just are entertainment and are only food to keep the brain occupied ? Hi Werner - Krishnamurti would need to be omniscient to know that no one changed. You would have to be omniscient to know what goes on inside my head. Instead of making magnificent pronouncements about all religion and philosophy, why not just make a statement about what it is like for Werner when his brain isn't occupied? To simple and straightforward, perhaps. > > And please don't get too upset about feeling vulnerable - you're not as > helpless as you think. > > > Haha Dan, you are such a nice guy ... So, I've been told. > > Take heart - whatever other shortcomings you may have, you're clearly still > able to type and pontificate. You probably can even make yourself a meal when > you're hungry and I bet you still know how to shower when you're dirty. See? > Rumors of your helplessness have been greatly exaggerated. > > > Ok, ok, I also brush my teeth at night when I have taken them out > and I also wipe my ass before leaving the loo etc, Thanks, Werner, for sharing the secrets of your personal hygiene with us. > But the helplessness regarding change was aimed at the psyche, was aiming psychological change and not changing your underware etc ... If you find that you have a psyche, that is the area for your concern. Not " everyone, " out there and their psyches. Truth is a very close-to-home issue. What goes on with Werner's psyche. > What a coward you must be, Dan, not face the real issue: Helplessnes regarding pschological change. Instead of facing the real issue you try to involve me in sidetracks like changing one's underware etc ... Not really, Werner. If you weren't busy misunderstanding what I say, you would see it has to do with recognizing human limitations, and accepting responsibility. Your responsibility is to understand what is going on right here, with Werner - but that's not exciting, doesn't do anything for you. So you distract yourself with all kinds of pronouncements about other people, and what they supposedly are doing inside their heads - which you have no way to know. But it's a great distraction for you from your own head, and from the death that is immediately at hand. Smiles, - Dan - > Werner > > > > > > > > - D - > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > -geo- > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > -d- > > > Wait a second... > > What unchanging? > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > -t- > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > -geo- Live right here. Where changing meets the unchanging and is the unchanging. Where " change " and " changeless " don't apply. You'll see right away that words and ideas can't be applied. Have never applied. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 23, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > -d- > > > > > > Wait a second... > > > > What unchanging? > > > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > > -t- > > > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > > -geo- > > > > > > > The " problem " is a conceptual misunderstanding. > > The word " change " is relevant only in contrast to that which is " unchanging " . > > The mind invents a word like change to label its perceptual input and then makes the word the reality. > > Does rain change into the ocean?.........does a child change into an adult?......does a cocoon change into a butterfly? > > In actuality....within the interrelated flux...... there is no such thing as isolated " changes " . > > > > > toombaru Yes. And my being is right here, where everything changes and there is no change. It might be nice if something could be said here about what this is like. However, it isn't possible. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Hi Werner - > > Krishnamurti would need to be omniscient to know that no one > changed. You would have to be omniscient to know what goes on > inside my head. The attempt to 'be myself', is the attempt to 'be others'. As we've noted, the 'me' and the 'you' co-arise. " The great unwanted peace " of no others, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 AM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:12 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:06 PM > > > Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stars and neutrinos...swirling. > > > > > > Everything flowing into everything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who knows that? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Look........see. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > -geo- > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > To recognize the unchanging, one contrasts the unchanging with change. > > To recognize who notices this, one contrasts a who, with everything that > isn't that who. > > - D - > > In how many places all happens? Does the place change? > -geo- It's not a place. Change and movement, contrasted with changelessness and stillness, have no application here. We can't discuss what this is. Here and there are contrasting concepts, is and is not. We talk simply because *this* is the end of speculation, and even the end of perceiving and not perceiving. To end is to begin. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:47 AM > Re: Re: Stary Night > > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 AM > Re: Stary Night > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:12 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:06 PM > > > Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stars and neutrinos...swirling. > > > > > > Everything flowing into everything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who knows that? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Look........see. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > -geo- > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > To recognize the unchanging, one contrasts the unchanging with change. > > To recognize who notices this, one contrasts a who, with everything that > isn't that who. > > - D - > > That is indeed the way thought functions - it compares. It is not thought > that sees the unchanging this. > -geo- The thought that there is something called " thought " is meaningless. The idea that there are ideas is absurd. This thoughtless being has never had a thought about there being thoughts. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:56 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > -geo- > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > -d- > > > Wait a second... > > What unchanging? > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > -t- > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > -geo- Live right here. Where changing meets the unchanging and is the unchanging. Where " change " and " changeless " don't apply. You'll see right away that words and ideas can't be applied. Have never applied. - D - It is not possible to point to it...nonetheless it is unchanging - as long as it remains without any quality, any qualifying, untouched, nonetheless full. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:58 AM > Re: Re: Stary Night > > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:47 AM > Re: Re: Stary Night > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 AM > Re: Stary Night > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:12 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:06 PM > > > Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stars and neutrinos...swirling. > > > > > > Everything flowing into everything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who knows that? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Look........see. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > -geo- > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > To recognize the unchanging, one contrasts the unchanging with change. > > To recognize who notices this, one contrasts a who, with everything that > isn't that who. > > - D - > > That is indeed the way thought functions - it compares. It is not thought > that sees the unchanging this. > > The unchanging is not seen, no.... the unchanging is is-ness. No > words....too obvious for them. > -geo- This is too obvious, too much, and too little - way too little for words or ideas. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > This is too obvious, too much, and too little - way too little for > words or ideas. > > - D - Far out! That's really something! Too much, baby... ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:00 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:39 AM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > -d- > > > > > > Wait a second... > > > > What unchanging? > > > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > > -t- > > > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > > -geo- > > > > The " problem " is a conceptual misunderstanding. > > The word " change " is relevant only in contrast to that which is > " unchanging " . > > The mind invents a word like change to label its perceptual input and then > makes the word the reality. > > Does rain change into the ocean?.........does a child change into an > adult?......does a cocoon change into a butterfly? > > In actuality....within the interrelated flux...... there is no such thing > as > isolated " changes " . > > toombaru > > No. How many " places " are there in the universe? Rain change into the > ocean, > or a child change into an adult....whether they change or not doesnt > matter. > Where is the only place all changes or no-changes happen? does that place > change? > -geo- Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? It can't. Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. - D - Place, space...are all contents - that is also clear. Maybe " inducing/showing " the act of the dying of conceptualization could lead to it. Dunno... -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:04 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:47 AM > Re: Re: Stary Night > > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:05 AM > Re: Stary Night > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:12 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:06 PM > > > Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stars and neutrinos...swirling. > > > > > > Everything flowing into everything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who knows that? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > Look........see. > > > > toombaru > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > -geo- > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > To recognize the unchanging, one contrasts the unchanging with change. > > To recognize who notices this, one contrasts a who, with everything that > isn't that who. > > - D - > > That is indeed the way thought functions - it compares. It is not thought > that sees the unchanging this. > -geo- The thought that there is something called " thought " is meaningless. The idea that there are ideas is absurd. This thoughtless being has never had a thought about there being thoughts. - D - It is completely clean...empty. That is why thoughts are clear. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > " The great unwanted peace " of no others, eh? Yes, well-said and on-target. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:12 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > It can't. > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > - D - If there was really 'interest in this', the list would be empty. But, of course, there's no interest in This. Everyone is here for 'reasons' other than This, Which is This playing out, arising. -t- I guess there is a need to play... -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:00 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:39 AM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > fewtch > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > > -d- > > > > > > > > > Wait a second... > > > > > > What unchanging? > > > > > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > > > -t- > > > > > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > The " problem " is a conceptual misunderstanding. > > > > The word " change " is relevant only in contrast to that which is > > " unchanging " . > > > > The mind invents a word like change to label its perceptual input and then > > makes the word the reality. > > > > Does rain change into the ocean?.........does a child change into an > > adult?......does a cocoon change into a butterfly? > > > > In actuality....within the interrelated flux...... there is no such thing > > as > > isolated " changes " . > > > > toombaru > > > > No. How many " places " are there in the universe? Rain change into the > > ocean, > > or a child change into an adult....whether they change or not doesnt > > matter. > > Where is the only place all changes or no-changes happen? does that place > > change? > > -geo- > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > It can't. > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > - D - > > Place, space...are all contents - that is also clear. > Maybe " inducing/showing " the act of the dying of conceptualization could > lead to it. Dunno... > -geo- The idea of concept is gone. Conceptualizing would require something to be conceptualized, and a conceptual process to put that into. No such division is. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > The thought that there is something called " thought " is meaningless. > > The idea that there are ideas is absurd. > > This thoughtless being has never had a thought about there being thoughts. > > - D - > It is completely clean...empty. That is why thoughts are clear. > -geo- .... can't ... say ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:12 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > > > It can't. > > > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > > > - D - > > If there was really 'interest in this', the list would be empty. > > But, of course, there's no interest in This. > > Everyone is here for 'reasons' other than This, > > Which is This playing out, arising. > -t- > > I guess there is a need to play... > -geo- It's all just happening, due to the dualistic poles. Very much like the solar system is happening, due to the sun's gravity's influence on the planets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:21 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:00 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:39 AM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > fewtch > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > > -d- > > > > > > > > > Wait a second... > > > > > > What unchanging? > > > > > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > > > -t- > > > > > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > The " problem " is a conceptual misunderstanding. > > > > The word " change " is relevant only in contrast to that which is > > " unchanging " . > > > > The mind invents a word like change to label its perceptual input and > > then > > makes the word the reality. > > > > Does rain change into the ocean?.........does a child change into an > > adult?......does a cocoon change into a butterfly? > > > > In actuality....within the interrelated flux...... there is no such > > thing > > as > > isolated " changes " . > > > > toombaru > > > > No. How many " places " are there in the universe? Rain change into the > > ocean, > > or a child change into an adult....whether they change or not doesnt > > matter. > > Where is the only place all changes or no-changes happen? does that > > place > > change? > > -geo- > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > It can't. > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > - D - > > Place, space...are all contents - that is also clear. > Maybe " inducing/showing " the act of the dying of conceptualization could > lead to it. Dunno... > -geo- The idea of concept is gone. Conceptualizing would require something to be conceptualized, and a conceptual process to put that into. No such division is. - D - All/any concepts does not change an inch of it. It is a locus not a thing. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 - fewtch Nisargadatta Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:24 PM Re: Stary Night Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:12 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > > > It can't. > > > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > > > - D - > > If there was really 'interest in this', the list would be empty. > > But, of course, there's no interest in This. > > Everyone is here for 'reasons' other than This, > > Which is This playing out, arising. > -t- > > I guess there is a need to play... > -geo- It's all just happening, due to the dualistic poles. Very much like the solar system is happening, due to the sun's gravity's influence on the planets. -t- Nobady cares where or why it is playing so. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > fewtch > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:24 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:12 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > > > > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > > > > > It can't. > > > > > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > > > > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > > > > > - D - > > > > If there was really 'interest in this', the list would be empty. > > > > But, of course, there's no interest in This. > > > > Everyone is here for 'reasons' other than This, > > > > Which is This playing out, arising. > > -t- > > > > I guess there is a need to play... > > -geo- > > It's all just happening, due to the dualistic poles. > > Very much like the solar system is happening, due to the sun's gravity's > influence on the planets. > -t- > > Nobady cares where or why it is playing so. > -geo- > Your new name shall be " Nobady " . :-) toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > fewtch > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:24 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > fewtch > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:12 PM > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > > > > > > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > > > > > > > It can't. > > > > > > > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > > > > > > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > If there was really 'interest in this', the list would be empty. > > > > > > But, of course, there's no interest in This. > > > > > > Everyone is here for 'reasons' other than This, > > > > > > Which is This playing out, arising. > > > -t- > > > > > > I guess there is a need to play... > > > -geo- > > > > It's all just happening, due to the dualistic poles. > > > > Very much like the solar system is happening, due to the sun's gravity's > > influence on the planets. > > -t- > > > > Nobady cares where or why it is playing so. > > -geo- > > > > > > > Your new name shall be " Nobady " . > > > > :-) > > > > toombaru > Laughing out Loud, I am. ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > " The great unwanted peace " of no others, eh? > > Yes, well-said and on-target. > > - D - There is no difference here between waking and deep sleep. Both are essentially the same absence of 'states'. This is alone, intimate, inseparable, unshareable... as it has always been. It has been called by many names, among which 'the eye of the hurricane'. There is a sort of infinite depth to This which is heard, seen, felt, smelled, tasted... simultaneously. One is this incommunicable depth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:21 PM > Re: Stary Night > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:00 PM > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:39 AM > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > fewtch > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, August 23, 2009 12:09 AM > > > > Re: Stary Night > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yes...and that changes? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > To recognize change, one contrasts the changing with the unchanging. > > > > -d- > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait a second... > > > > > > > > What unchanging? > > > > > > > > Where is this one, that contrasts? > > > > -t- > > > > > > > > Is there somethng unchanging there? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > The " problem " is a conceptual misunderstanding. > > > > > > The word " change " is relevant only in contrast to that which is > > > " unchanging " . > > > > > > The mind invents a word like change to label its perceptual input and > > > then > > > makes the word the reality. > > > > > > Does rain change into the ocean?.........does a child change into an > > > adult?......does a cocoon change into a butterfly? > > > > > > In actuality....within the interrelated flux...... there is no such > > > thing > > > as > > > isolated " changes " . > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > No. How many " places " are there in the universe? Rain change into the > > > ocean, > > > or a child change into an adult....whether they change or not doesnt > > > matter. > > > Where is the only place all changes or no-changes happen? does that > > > place > > > change? > > > -geo- > > > > Clearly, it isn't a place, nor even space. > > > > So, how can it be arrived at by a conceptual " mind " ? > > > > It can't. > > > > Does using concepts to dissolve concepts assist in some way? > > > > Only up to a point - and beyond that point, no. > > > > - D - > > > > Place, space...are all contents - that is also clear. > > Maybe " inducing/showing " the act of the dying of conceptualization could > > lead to it. Dunno... > > -geo- > > The idea of concept is gone. > > Conceptualizing would require something to be conceptualized, and a > conceptual process to put that into. > > No such division is. > > - D - > > All/any concepts does not change an inch of it. It is a locus not a thing. > -geo- So many concepts about concepts about concepts. No value to any of it. Concepts appearing and disappearing. They never can say anything about it. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted August 24, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " The great unwanted peace " of no others, eh? > > > > Yes, well-said and on-target. > > > > - D - > > There is no difference here between waking and deep sleep. Both are essentially the same absence of 'states'. > > This is alone, intimate, inseparable, unshareable... as it has always been. > > It has been called by many names, among which 'the eye of the hurricane'. > > There is a sort of infinite depth to This which is heard, seen, felt, smelled, tasted... simultaneously. One is this incommunicable depth. Yes, I can't communicate this. As it always is now, it never involves any duration to form any state or quality, let alone some kind of communication of itself. - D - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
