In Nisargadatta@, dan330033 dan330033@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > toombaru2006

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Friday, August 07, 2009 2:45 PM

> > > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > > <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > toombaru2006

> > > > Nisargadatta

> > > > Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> > > > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > > > <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to

me

> > > > > > > on this

> > > > > > > site. -Doug

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > > > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > > > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > > > > You are that.

> > > > > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > > > > End of story.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > toombaru

> > > > >

> > > > > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > > > > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > > > > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > > > > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > > > > about reality. )

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> > > > Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should

> > > > wear.

> > > > Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> > > > Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

> > > >

> > > > And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run across

> > > > burning coals to find out.

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > And some think they have it all.

> > > > -geo-

> > > >

> > >

> > > .....and a few are it all.

> > >

> > > That shall be your new name.

> > >

> > > 'Amitall "

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > But...even fewer can say I am beyond

> > > -geo-

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Anybody can say anything.

> >

> > Nobody can get beyond what they are.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> Namaste,

>

> One doesn't need to know the molecular structure of water to step out of the

swimming pool and realise there never was a person or a pool.............>

 

 

 

......or even anyone to know that.

 

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

-

Tony OClery

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 3:23 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > -

> > toombaru2006

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, August 07, 2009 2:45 PM

> > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > toombaru2006

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> > > Re: In Nisargadatta ,

> > > " dan330033 "

> > > <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful

> > > > > > to me

> > > > > > on this

> > > > > > site. -Doug

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > > > You are that.

> > > > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > > > End of story.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > > > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > > > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > > > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > > > about reality. )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> > > Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should

> > > wear.

> > > Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> > > Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

> > >

> > > And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run

> > > across

> > > burning coals to find out.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > And some think they have it all.

> > > -geo-

> > >

> >

> > .....and a few are it all.

> >

> > That shall be your new name.

> >

> > 'Amitall "

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > But...even fewer can say I am beyond

> > -geo-

> >

>

>

>

> Anybody can say anything.

>

> Nobody can get beyond what they are.

>

>

>

>

> toombaru

>

Namaste,

 

One doesn't need to know the molecular structure of water to step out of the

swimming pool and realise there never was a person or a pool.............

 

And if you are a sub-atomic particle you are out of the water without having

to step out of the swimming pool. That is close...

-geo-

[Guest guest]

-

toombaru2006

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 3:25 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 3:09 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > -

> > toombaru2006

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, August 07, 2009 2:39 PM

> > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > toombaru2006

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Friday, August 07, 2009 12:12 PM

> > > Re: In Nisargadatta ,

> > > " dan330033 "

> > > <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> > > > > <douglasmitch1963@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is

> > > > > > proclaimed

> > > > by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But

> > > > when

> > > > he was

> > > > confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least

> > > > interested

> > > > in

> > > > this

> > > > daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping

> > > > and

> > > > all

> > > > this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from

> > > > this

> > > > world.

> > > > I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am

> > > > fed

> > > > up

> > > > with

> > > > that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want

> > > > to

> > > > get

> > > > rid of

> > > > this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds

> > > > here

> > > > like he

> > > > was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or

> > > > consciousness,

> > > > or

> > > > whatever. Any takers?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Douglas -

> > > > >

> > > > > One can only guess.

> > > > >

> > > > > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask

> > > > > him

> > > > > about

> > > > it.

> > > > >

> > > > > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another

> > > > > language.

> > > > >

> > > > > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> > > > transcribed, how it was translated.

> > > > >

> > > > > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he

> > > > > spoke,

> > > > > or

> > > > > what

> > > > experience he was addressing through his words.

> > > > >

> > > > > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is

> > > > > for

> > > > > you.

> > > > >

> > > > > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with

> > > > > something or

> > > > not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> > > > >

> > > > > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> > > > >

> > > > > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> > > > >

> > > > > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> > > > >

> > > > > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your

> > > > > readers, what

> > > > you meant.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask

> > > > > you

> > > > > about it

> > > > as you were still alive.

> > > > >

> > > > > We would still be guessing.

> > > > >

> > > > > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be

> > > > > guessing

> > > > about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you

> > > > were

> > > > having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to

> > > > others. "

> > > > >

> > > > > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your

> > > > > experience

> > > > > and

> > > > understanding.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it possible not to guess?

> > > > >

> > > > > To know directly?

> > > > >

> > > > > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > -- Dan --

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >Dan,

> > > > >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are

> > > > >alike

> > > > >in

> > > > >our

> > > > sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and

> > > > feel

> > > > at

> > > > times

> > > > the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is

> > > > a

> > > > part of

> > > > me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and

> > > > hence

> > > > Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is

> > > > very

> > > > grateful

> > > > and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and

> > > > Awareness.

> > > > There is

> > > > so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I

> > > > find

> > > > hard to

> > > > accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it

> > > > outright.

> > > > It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> > > > Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were

> > > > not

> > > > for

> > > > the

> > > > body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your

> > > > thoughtful

> > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me

> > > > on

> > > > this

> > > > site. -Doug

> > > >

> > >

> > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > You are that.

> > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > End of story.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > Awareness does not need to know anything to be.

> > > There is nothing beyond awareness.

> > > -geo-

> > >

> >

> > So.......you have a label that pictures something called

> > " awareness " ......and you have a label that pictures something called

> > " nothingness " ......

> >

> > And the conclusion is that there the nothingness thing beyond the

> > awareness

> > thing.

> >

> > I'm starting to see where you are coming from.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > So...you a have a picture called " awareness that can not know itself "

> > You have a picture called notigness (your message above)

> > And the conclusion is that there is a notigness thing beyond " awareness

> > that

> > can not know itself " thing.

> > -geo-

> >

>

> Yup.

>

> Something very odd happens when awareness gets a glimpse of its own empty

> skirts.

>

> toombaru

>

> So now there IS an awareness that is empty...

> -geo-

>

 

Words can only take you to the edge.

 

It is you who as to take the leap.

 

No one can hold your hand.

 

toombaru

 

I take the leap and leave hands, words, you and me, behind. Then I turn and

get it all back...and more.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

-

toombaru2006

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 3:23 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 3:12 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > -

> > toombaru2006

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, August 07, 2009 2:45 PM

> > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > toombaru2006

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> > > Re: In Nisargadatta ,

> > > " dan330033 "

> > > <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > on this

> > > > > > site. -Doug

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > > > You are that.

> > > > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > > > End of story.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > toombaru

> > > >

> > > > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > > > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > > > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > > > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > > > about reality. )

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> > > Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should

> > > wear.

> > > Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> > > Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

> > >

> > > And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run

> > > across

> > > burning coals to find out.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > And some think they have it all.

> > > -geo-

> > >

> >

> > .....and a few are it all.

> >

> > That shall be your new name.

> >

> > 'Amitall "

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > But...even fewer can say I am beyond

> > -geo-

> >

>

> Anybody can say anything.

>

> Nobody can get beyond what they are.

>

> toombaru

>

> Oh certainly - nobady.

> Only that which is absolutely and totaly empty - including space, time and

> dimension.

> Certainly nobady.

> -geo-

>

 

Oh...you mean..........eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemmmpty.

 

Now we're talkin.

 

:-)

 

toombaru

 

I know....it takes a few rounds to turn you on - as always. LOL

-geo-

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

>

> In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is proclaimed

> by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But when he

was

> confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least interested in this

> daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping and all

> this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from this

world.

> I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am fed up with

> that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want to get rid

of

> this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds here like

he

> was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or consciousness, or

> whatever. Any takers?

> >

> >

> > Douglas -

> >

> > One can only guess.

> >

> > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask him about

> it.

> >

> > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another language.

> >

> > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> transcribed, how it was translated.

> >

> > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he spoke, or what

> experience he was addressing through his words.

> >

> > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is for you.

> >

> > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with something

or

> not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> >

> > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> >

> > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> >

> > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> >

> > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your readers,

what

> you meant.

> >

> > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask you about it

> as you were still alive.

> >

> > We would still be guessing.

> >

> > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be guessing

> about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you were

> having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to others. "

> >

> > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your experience and

> understanding.

> >

> > Is it possible not to guess?

> >

> > To know directly?

> >

> > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> >

> >

> > -- Dan --

>

>

>

> >Dan,

> >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are alike in our

> sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and feel at times

> the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is a part of

> me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and hence

> Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is very grateful

> and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and Awareness. There is

> so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I find hard

to

> accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it outright.

> It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were not for the

> body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your thoughtful

> responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me on this

> site. -Doug

 

Doug -

 

Thanks, that's good to hear. I appreciate it.

 

And I appreciate your self-disclosure, too.

 

The truth that we discuss here is intimately involved with death and dying.

 

And the truth we discuss is intimately involved with one's own direct

experience/awareness.

 

The body that we truly are is a movement.

 

The body that others identify us as, is an object.

 

The movement we are didn't begin when our parents conceived us.

 

What do I know directly, as this movement?

 

It isn't moving from the past to the future.

 

It is a nondivided movement opening up from and as the present moment.

 

There is no one existing apart from this bodily movement that is sensing it from

a distance.

 

The sensing is the movement is the awareness.

 

The aspect of the body that dies is that which is visible to others, and that

which can be known as an object. That which I've learned to think about as an

object occupying a position in space.

 

It is sort of like a snake shedding its skin.

 

Only the snake, in this case, is movement-energy-awareness.

 

Being aware of death, understanding death from the inside out is where this

matter of awareness becomes real, and isn't just a bunch of repartee with words,

or trying to prove to oneself or others that one has some kind of significant

realization.

 

Death is the coming to terms with oneself, one's being, any sense of meaning

involved with being aware.

 

In conclusion, I agree with you that dismissing the body as something I am not

is not sufficient for understanding what bodily experience is, and what it is

saying.

 

One just can't get this from anyone else, and can only come through the bodily

experience/awareness itself, as it is.

 

The experience is not fragmented, not divided, and includes all of one's life

experience.

 

The awareness is inclusive of all aspects one had sensed as one's life in time,

one's relationships, and so on.

 

- D -

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 12:12 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> >

> > In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> > > <douglasmitch1963@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is

> > > > proclaimed

> > by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But when

> > he was

> > confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least interested in

> > this

> > daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping and

> > all

> > this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from this

> > world.

> > I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am fed up

> > with

> > that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want to get

> > rid of

> > this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds here

> > like he

> > was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or consciousness,

> > or

> > whatever. Any takers?

> > >

> > >

> > > Douglas -

> > >

> > > One can only guess.

> > >

> > > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask him

> > > about

> > it.

> > >

> > > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another language.

> > >

> > > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> > transcribed, how it was translated.

> > >

> > > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he spoke, or

> > > what

> > experience he was addressing through his words.

> > >

> > > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is for

> > > you.

> > >

> > > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with

> > > something or

> > not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> > >

> > > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> > >

> > > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> > >

> > > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> > >

> > > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your

> > > readers, what

> > you meant.

> > >

> > > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask you

> > > about it

> > as you were still alive.

> > >

> > > We would still be guessing.

> > >

> > > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be

> > > guessing

> > about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you were

> > having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to others. "

> > >

> > > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your experience

> > > and

> > understanding.

> > >

> > > Is it possible not to guess?

> > >

> > > To know directly?

> > >

> > > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> > >

> > >

> > > -- Dan --

> >

> >

> >

> > >Dan,

> > >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are alike in

> > >our

> > sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and feel at

> > times

> > the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is a

> > part of

> > me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and hence

> > Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is very

> > grateful

> > and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and Awareness.

> > There is

> > so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I find

> > hard to

> > accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it

> > outright.

> > It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> > Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were not for

> > the

> > body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your thoughtful

> > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me on

> > this

> > site. -Doug

> >

>

> Life is a terminal illness.

> Awareness can never know itself.

> That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> You are that.

> You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> End of story.

>

> toombaru

>

> Awareness does not need to know anything to be.

> There is nothing beyond awareness.

> -geo-

 

Hi Geo -

 

It's true - and impossible to impart in words what this is.

 

The words said, the person speaking, are arising, are appearing through the

awareness they are trying to make a comment about.

 

The only way to know awareness is to be awareness as such, which you are, only

unbeknown to self.

 

There is a lot of talk about not identifying with an appearance, a body, a set

of memories.

 

But that talk also is appearance.

 

Awareness isn't able to identify with anything.

 

It isn't possible.

 

Thus, all the teachings, all the suggestions, all the practices, all the

definitive guides are to no avail.

 

This awareness can't know itself as an object or through words.

 

And that is simply how it is.

 

The human being learned it is a self, it has a form that appears to others, it

can reflect on its knowledge through memory, it experiences a life and

relationships.

 

All of that learning has a limit.

 

The limit of it is at the point of awareness, so to speak.

 

Nothing has ever been said past this point, nor ever will be.

 

 

-- Dan --

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me

> > > > on this

> > > > site. -Doug

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > You are that.

> > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > End of story.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > about reality. )

> > >

> >

>

> Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should wear.

> Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

>

> And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run across

> burning coals to find out.

>

> toombaru

>

> And some think they have it all.

> -geo-

 

Indeed, it has nothing to do with being impressive to others, or to oneself.

 

-- D --

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > -

> > toombaru2006

> > Nisargadatta

> > Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> > Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> > <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me

> > > > > on this

> > > > > site. -Doug

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > > You are that.

> > > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > > End of story.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > > about reality. )

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> > Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should wear.

> > Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> > Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

> >

> > And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run across

> > burning coals to find out.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > And some think they have it all.

> > -geo-

> >

>

>

> .....and a few are it all.

>

>

>

> That shall be your new name.

>

>

> 'Amitall "

>

>

> toombaru

 

 

That must be like Geritol.

 

Something you take when you feel run down.

 

Like by a car or something.

 

And when do you take Damnitall?

 

- D -

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> That must be like Geritol.

>

> Something you take when you feel run down.

>

> Like by a car or something.

>

> And when do you take Damnitall?

>

> - D -

 

Constipation... Pepto Bismol? ;-p.

[Guest guest]

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 5:53 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 12:12 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:

> >

> > In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

> > > <douglasmitch1963@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is

> > > > proclaimed

> > by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But when

> > he was

> > confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least interested

> > in

> > this

> > daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping and

> > all

> > this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from this

> > world.

> > I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am fed up

> > with

> > that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want to

> > get

> > rid of

> > this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds here

> > like he

> > was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or

> > consciousness,

> > or

> > whatever. Any takers?

> > >

> > >

> > > Douglas -

> > >

> > > One can only guess.

> > >

> > > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask him

> > > about

> > it.

> > >

> > > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another language.

> > >

> > > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> > transcribed, how it was translated.

> > >

> > > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he spoke,

> > > or

> > > what

> > experience he was addressing through his words.

> > >

> > > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is for

> > > you.

> > >

> > > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with

> > > something or

> > not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> > >

> > > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> > >

> > > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> > >

> > > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> > >

> > > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your

> > > readers, what

> > you meant.

> > >

> > > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask you

> > > about it

> > as you were still alive.

> > >

> > > We would still be guessing.

> > >

> > > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be

> > > guessing

> > about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you

> > were

> > having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to others. "

> > >

> > > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your experience

> > > and

> > understanding.

> > >

> > > Is it possible not to guess?

> > >

> > > To know directly?

> > >

> > > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> > >

> > >

> > > -- Dan --

> >

> >

> >

> > >Dan,

> > >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are alike

> > >in

> > >our

> > sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and feel at

> > times

> > the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is a

> > part of

> > me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and hence

> > Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is very

> > grateful

> > and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and Awareness.

> > There is

> > so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I find

> > hard to

> > accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it

> > outright.

> > It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> > Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were not

> > for

> > the

> > body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your thoughtful

> > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me on

> > this

> > site. -Doug

> >

>

> Life is a terminal illness.

> Awareness can never know itself.

> That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> You are that.

> You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> End of story.

>

> toombaru

>

> Awareness does not need to know anything to be.

> There is nothing beyond awareness.

> -geo-

 

Hi Geo -

 

It's true - and impossible to impart in words what this is.

 

The words said, the person speaking, are arising, are appearing through the

awareness they are trying to make a comment about.

 

The only way to know awareness is to be awareness as such, which you are,

only unbeknown to self.

 

There is a lot of talk about not identifying with an appearance, a body, a

set of memories.

 

But that talk also is appearance.

 

Awareness isn't able to identify with anything.

 

It isn't possible.

 

Thus, all the teachings, all the suggestions, all the practices, all the

definitive guides are to no avail.

 

This awareness can't know itself as an object or through words.

 

And that is simply how it is.

 

The human being learned it is a self, it has a form that appears to others,

it can reflect on its knowledge through memory, it experiences a life and

relationships.

 

All of that learning has a limit.

 

The limit of it is at the point of awareness, so to speak.

 

Nothing has ever been said past this point, nor ever will be.

 

-- Dan --

 

Like a kind of an universal mould. It accepts any and everything but it is

never the object being moulded. At the same time it is not other then them.

Objects are things, time, space, knowledge, dimensionality, me, you, they,

us, others.....all equaly and easily moldable.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 5:55 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me

> > > > on this

> > > > site. -Doug

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > You are that.

> > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > End of story.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > about reality. )

> > >

> >

>

> Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should

> wear.

> Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

>

> And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run across

> burning coals to find out.

>

> toombaru

>

> And some think they have it all.

> -geo-

 

Indeed, it has nothing to do with being impressive to others, or to oneself.

 

-- D --

 

No, total and absolute non-personal-ity. Persons, personalities are all

moulded/received by it, like a perfect woman, the spirit of the valley...but

this is none of them.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

-

geo

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 6:27 PM

Re: Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

 

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Friday, August 07, 2009 5:55 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Friday, August 07, 2009 1:34 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me

> > > > on this

> > > > site. -Doug

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Life is a terminal illness.

> > > Awareness can never know itself.

> > > That means that there is noting beyond awareness.

> > > You are that.

> > > You are the cutting edge of consciousness.

> > > End of story.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > P: OK, Toomb, don't be greedy. Accept that

> > Dan has helped him must, and that is that.

> > Don't try to push Dan from the summit of

> > his admiration with ultimate pontifications

> > about reality. )

> > >

> >

>

> Some want help and advise on the most comfortable places to stay.

> Some want to know where the best food is served...and what they should

> wear.

> Some what to be told which wine they should drink.

> Some seek a few soothing words to make it through the dream.

>

> And some want to know what the hell is going on......and will run across

> burning coals to find out.

>

> toombaru

>

> And some think they have it all.

> -geo-

 

Indeed, it has nothing to do with being impressive to others, or to oneself.

 

-- D --

 

No, total and absolute non-personal-ity. Persons, personalities are all

moulded/received by it, like a perfect woman, the spirit of the valley...but

this is none of them.

 

Let us remain in the non-personal field.

Always remaining as presently this - impersonaly.

We have talked about awareness. But we never considered that the ground has

three aspects.Individuality, in the sense that it can not be divided, one.

If awareness where just that no things would exist, no movement and no

diversity. Just like we can not understand what this individuality is, there

is the will of the absolute. The act of creation. In human beings it is

reflected as action, two. And the third is the heart. Not this human heart -

they are not the same. These threee aspects are just one.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Death is the coming to terms with oneself, one's being, any sense

> of meaning involved with being aware.

 

The 'terms' are that there is neither anything to hold onto,

 

Nor anything/one there to do the holding.

 

Those are the terms.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

wrote:

> >

> > In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@>

> > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is

proclaimed

> > by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But when he

was

> > confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least interested in

this

> > daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping and all

> > this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from this

world.

> > I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am fed up

with

> > that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want to get

rid of

> > this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds here like

he

> > was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or consciousness, or

> > whatever. Any takers?

> > >

> > >

> > > Douglas -

> > >

> > > One can only guess.

> > >

> > > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask him

about

> > it.

> > >

> > > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another language.

> > >

> > > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> > transcribed, how it was translated.

> > >

> > > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he spoke, or

what

> > experience he was addressing through his words.

> > >

> > > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is for you.

> > >

> > > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with

something or

> > not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> > >

> > > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> > >

> > > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> > >

> > > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> > >

> > > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your readers,

what

> > you meant.

> > >

> > > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask you about

it

> > as you were still alive.

> > >

> > > We would still be guessing.

> > >

> > > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be guessing

> > about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you were

> > having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to others. "

> > >

> > > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your experience and

> > understanding.

> > >

> > > Is it possible not to guess?

> > >

> > > To know directly?

> > >

> > > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> > >

> > >

> > > -- Dan --

> >

> >

> >

> > >Dan,

> > >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are alike in

our

> > sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and feel at

times

> > the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is a part

of

> > me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and hence

> > Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is very

grateful

> > and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and Awareness. There

is

> > so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I find hard

to

> > accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it

outright.

> > It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> > Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were not for

the

> > body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your thoughtful

> > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me on this

> > site. -Doug

>

> Doug -

>

> Thanks, that's good to hear. I appreciate it.

>

> And I appreciate your self-disclosure, too.

>

> The truth that we discuss here is intimately involved with death and dying.

>

> And the truth we discuss is intimately involved with one's own direct

experience/awareness.

>

> The body that we truly are is a movement.

>

> The body that others identify us as, is an object.

>

> The movement we are didn't begin when our parents conceived us.

>

> What do I know directly, as this movement?

>

> It isn't moving from the past to the future.

>

> It is a nondivided movement opening up from and as the present moment.

>

> There is no one existing apart from this bodily movement that is sensing it

from a distance.

>

> The sensing is the movement is the awareness.

>

> The aspect of the body that dies is that which is visible to others, and that

which can be known as an object. That which I've learned to think about as an

object occupying a position in space.

>

> It is sort of like a snake shedding its skin.

>

> Only the snake, in this case, is movement-energy-awareness.

>

> Being aware of death, understanding death from the inside out is where this

matter of awareness becomes real, and isn't just a bunch of repartee with words,

or trying to prove to oneself or others that one has some kind of significant

realization.

>

> Death is the coming to terms with oneself, one's being, any sense of meaning

involved with being aware.

>

> In conclusion, I agree with you that dismissing the body as something I am not

is not sufficient for understanding what bodily experience is, and what it is

saying.

>

> One just can't get this from anyone else, and can only come through the bodily

experience/awareness itself, as it is.

>

> The experience is not fragmented, not divided, and includes all of one's life

experience.

>

> The awareness is inclusive of all aspects one had sensed as one's life in

time, one's relationships, and so on.

>

> - D -

>

>Dan,

>Some here would criticize me for wanting to get your response...that i am

placing you on some kind of pedestal. I merely recognize a man who is able to

impart understanding to me on my level. This should be no offense to " others " .

Thanks again for your response, I have found it most helpful. Doug

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

wrote:

> > >

> > > In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 "

<douglasmitch1963@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta supposedly took his stand in the Absolute. This is

proclaimed

> > > by him to be a desireless state, free of the bodymind identity. But when

he was

> > > confronted with his cancer he said this, " I am not the least interested in

this

> > > daily ritual of getting up in the morning, eating and again sleeping and

all

> > > this...I have had enough of all that. I do not expect anything from this

world.

> > > I am not going to acheive, attain, possess anything, because I am fed up

with

> > > that very consciousness out of which the world is created and want to get

rid of

> > > this consciousness. " (p.77, The Experience of Nothingness.) Sounds here

like he

> > > was still identifying with some " thing " be it the body, or consciousness,

or

> > > whatever. Any takers?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Douglas -

> > > >

> > > > One can only guess.

> > > >

> > > > If one were a friend of Nisargadatta's at the time, one could ask him

about

> > > it.

> > > >

> > > > He is dead, one has read his words translated from another language.

> > > >

> > > > One has no idea what was actually said, how it was interpreted and

> > > transcribed, how it was translated.

> > > >

> > > > One has no idea how Nisargadatta perceived the one to whom he spoke, or

what

> > > experience he was addressing through his words.

> > > >

> > > > What would be less of a guess for you, is what identification is for

you.

> > > >

> > > > You could ask that question of yourself - are you identified with

something or

> > > not? What is it to you to be identified or not identified?

> > > >

> > > > Experientially what is the difference for you?

> > > >

> > > > What is it not to be identified with experience?

> > > >

> > > > Then, you wouldn't be guessing as much.

> > > >

> > > > Although, once you spoke about it, we would be guessing, as your

readers, what

> > > you meant.

> > > >

> > > > Even if we spoke the same language that you speak and could ask you

about it

> > > as you were still alive.

> > > >

> > > > We would still be guessing.

> > > >

> > > > And the part of your brain that supplies language, would still be

guessing

> > > about what language to apply to the experience and understanding you were

> > > having, so as to bring that experience and understanding " to others. "

> > > >

> > > > And those others would just be whatever they were, in your experience

and

> > > understanding.

> > > >

> > > > Is it possible not to guess?

> > > >

> > > > To know directly?

> > > >

> > > > What do you say from this awareness, where you are not guessing?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > -- Dan --

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >Dan,

> > > >The referenced quote makes me think that Nisargadatta and I are alike in

our

> > > sentiments about living with a terminal illness. I have AIDS and feel at

times

> > > the way that Nisargadatta did about this supposed life. But there is a

part of

> > > me that feels that the body is the " temple " of consciousness, and hence

> > > Awareness. The body should perhaps be something for which one is very

grateful

> > > and blessed to have as a vehicle for the consciousness and Awareness.

There is

> > > so much negativity pronounced upon the body by Nisargadatta that I find

hard to

> > > accept. I know that I am not just this body, but I don't dismiss it

outright.

> > > It has helped me via the mind to transcend and realize that the

> > > Awareness/Absolute would have no other way to know itself it were not for

the

> > > body and mind. That is where i take my stand. Thanks for your thoughtful

> > > responses to my inquiries, Dan. You have been the most helpful to me on

this

> > > site. -Doug

> >

> > Doug -

> >

> > Thanks, that's good to hear. I appreciate it.

> >

> > And I appreciate your self-disclosure, too.

> >

> > The truth that we discuss here is intimately involved with death and dying.

> >

> > And the truth we discuss is intimately involved with one's own direct

experience/awareness.

> >

> > The body that we truly are is a movement.

> >

> > The body that others identify us as, is an object.

> >

> > The movement we are didn't begin when our parents conceived us.

> >

> > What do I know directly, as this movement?

> >

> > It isn't moving from the past to the future.

> >

> > It is a nondivided movement opening up from and as the present moment.

> >

 

 

>Isn't the present moment always experienced after it has happened due to the

lag time from input to Awareness? In which case the present moment is also

really the past?

 

 

> > There is no one existing apart from this bodily movement that is sensing it

from a distance.

> >

> > The sensing is the movement is the awareness.

> >

> > The aspect of the body that dies is that which is visible to others, and

that which can be known as an object. That which I've learned to think about as

an object occupying a position in space.

> >

> > It is sort of like a snake shedding its skin.

> >

> > Only the snake, in this case, is movement-energy-awareness.

> >

> > Being aware of death, understanding death from the inside out is where this

matter of awareness becomes real, and isn't just a bunch of repartee with words,

or trying to prove to oneself or others that one has some kind of significant

realization.

> >

> > Death is the coming to terms with oneself, one's being, any sense of meaning

involved with being aware.

> >

> > In conclusion, I agree with you that dismissing the body as something I am

not is not sufficient for understanding what bodily experience is, and what it

is saying.

> >

> > One just can't get this from anyone else, and can only come through the

bodily experience/awareness itself, as it is.

> >

> > The experience is not fragmented, not divided, and includes all of one's

life experience.

> >

> > The awareness is inclusive of all aspects one had sensed as one's life in

time, one's relationships, and so on.

> >

> > - D -

> >

> >Dan,

> >Some here would criticize me for wanting to get your response...that i am

placing you on some kind of pedestal. I merely recognize a man who is able to

impart understanding to me on my level. This should be no offense to " others " .

Thanks again for your response, I have found it most helpful. Doug

>

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

 

> >Dan,

> >Some here would criticize me for wanting to get your response...that i am

placing you on some kind of pedestal. I merely recognize a man who is able to

impart understanding to me on my level. This should be no offense to " others " .

Thanks again for your response, I have found it most helpful. Doug

 

Hi Doug -

 

Yes, I agree, and that's exactly how I took it.

 

I'm glad you found my response helpful.

 

 

-- Dan

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

 

> > > Doug -

> > >

> > > Thanks, that's good to hear. I appreciate it.

> > >

> > > And I appreciate your self-disclosure, too.

> > >

> > > The truth that we discuss here is intimately involved with death and

dying.

> > >

> > > And the truth we discuss is intimately involved with one's own direct

experience/awareness.

> > >

> > > The body that we truly are is a movement.

> > >

> > > The body that others identify us as, is an object.

> > >

> > > The movement we are didn't begin when our parents conceived us.

> > >

> > > What do I know directly, as this movement?

> > >

> > > It isn't moving from the past to the future.

> > >

> > > It is a nondivided movement opening up from and as the present moment.

> > >

>

>

> >Isn't the present moment always experienced after it has happened due to the

lag time from input to Awareness? In which case the present moment is also

really the past?

 

Hi Doug -

 

Conceptualization of any experience involves an imagined time lag.

 

The time lag is " built in " because the process of conceptualization requires an

imagined distance between observer and observed.

 

The actual present is not the conceptualized present.

 

The conceptualized present is an imaginary point between past and future.

 

The actual present is not divided into segments, such as past, present, and

future.

 

So, yes, the conceptualized present is the past.

 

Concept (memory and thought) only refers to the past.

 

The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

 

" What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

 

The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of the past,

cannot touch the actual living present that is who one truly is.

 

- Dan

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@>

wrote:

>

> > > > Doug -

> > > >

> > > > Thanks, that's good to hear. I appreciate it.

> > > >

> > > > And I appreciate your self-disclosure, too.

> > > >

> > > > The truth that we discuss here is intimately involved with death and

dying.

> > > >

> > > > And the truth we discuss is intimately involved with one's own direct

experience/awareness.

> > > >

> > > > The body that we truly are is a movement.

> > > >

> > > > The body that others identify us as, is an object.

> > > >

> > > > The movement we are didn't begin when our parents conceived us.

> > > >

> > > > What do I know directly, as this movement?

> > > >

> > > > It isn't moving from the past to the future.

> > > >

> > > > It is a nondivided movement opening up from and as the present moment.

> > > >

> >

> >

> > >Isn't the present moment always experienced after it has happened due to

the lag time from input to Awareness? In which case the present moment is also

really the past?

>

> Hi Doug -

>

> Conceptualization of any experience involves an imagined time lag.

>

> The time lag is " built in " because the process of conceptualization requires

an imagined distance between observer and observed.

>

> The actual present is not the conceptualized present.

>

> The conceptualized present is an imaginary point between past and future.

>

> The actual present is not divided into segments, such as past, present, and

future.

>

> So, yes, the conceptualized present is the past.

>

> Concept (memory and thought) only refers to the past.

>

> The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

>

> " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

>

> The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of the past,

cannot touch the actual living present that is who one truly is.

>

> - Dan

>

 

 

 

In the same light that a shadow is truly the sun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

>

> " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

>

> The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of

> the past, cannot touch the actual living present that is who one

> truly is.

>

> - Dan

 

This past-based 'mode of experiencing' is, of course, not continuous.

 

For example, one may " get into " a piece of music and forget about time

altogether.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

> >

> > " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

> >

> > The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of

> > the past, cannot touch the actual living present that is who one

> > truly is.

> >

> > - Dan

>

> This past-based 'mode of experiencing' is, of course, not continuous.

>

> For example, one may " get into " a piece of music and forget about time

altogether.

 

Yes.

 

With " full absorption " there is no sense of being absorbed, no starting or

ending point of it. It is primordial non-division.

 

One is the music, one is the hearing of it, and that which hears is the music.

 

In this sense, nothing is happening, nothing was heard.

 

 

-- D --

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963

wrote:

>

> > >Dan,

> > >Some here would criticize me for wanting to get your

> response...that i am placing you on some kind of pedestal. I merely >

recognize a man who is able to impart understanding to me on my

> level. This should be no offense to " others " .

 

For whatever it's worth, I don't think so... it's always cool to find someone

that one 'resonates with'.

 

Although we really can't get direct understanding from anything but the

awareness itself, as I think Dan mentioned, although words can be helpful,

particularly if one is " looking " at one's own experience (to see if the words

ring true) while reading.

 

Peace...

[Guest guest]

-

dan330033

Nisargadatta

Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:18 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

> >

> > " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

> >

> > The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of

> > the past, cannot touch the actual living present that is who one

> > truly is.

> >

> > - Dan

>

> This past-based 'mode of experiencing' is, of course, not continuous.

>

> For example, one may " get into " a piece of music and forget about time

> altogether.

 

Yes.

 

With " full absorption " there is no sense of being absorbed, no starting or

ending point of it. It is primordial non-division.

 

One is the music, one is the hearing of it, and that which hears is the

music.

 

In this sense, nothing is happening, nothing was heard.

 

-- D --

 

No. In this kind of absortion there is a temporary " absent-mindness " , but

then all comes back and the imagined center is there again.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

-

Tim G.

Nisargadatta

Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:55 PM

Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

<dan330033 wrote:

 

 

Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

> > >

> > > " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

> > >

> > > The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of

> > > the past, cannot touch the actual living present that is who one

> > > truly is.

> > >

> > > - Dan

> >

> > This past-based 'mode of experiencing' is, of course, not continuous.

> >

> > For example, one may " get into " a piece of music and forget about time

> > altogether.

>

> Yes.

>

> With " full absorption " there is no sense of being absorbed, no starting or

> ending point of it. It is primordial non-division.

>

> One is the music, one is the hearing of it, and that which hears is the

> music.

>

> In this sense, nothing is happening, nothing was heard.

>

>

> -- D --

 

Well said... I like the example of music as well, as it tends to have a

flowing quality that 'creates absorption' through its obvious non-staticity

(in contrast to an objectified 'me' or 'you').

 

==

For some time the senses are fulfilled, the self forgoten....one is in

company of the predilect toy. Some minutes later the imagined observer is

there s if never had left. That is just an experience.

-geo-

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> For some time the senses are fulfilled, the self forgoten....one is in

> company of the predilect toy. Some minutes later the imagined observer is

> there s if never had left. That is just an experience.

> -geo-

 

True -- anything remembered as a 'state' that came and went is an 'experience'.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> dan330033

> Nisargadatta

> Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:18 PM

> Re: In Nisargadatta , " dan330033 "

> <dan330033@> wrote:

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > The past is not in a relationship with " what is. "

> > >

> > > " What is " is not divided into portions or segments.

> > >

> > > The person that is of the past, the mode of experiencing that is of

> > > the past, cannot touch the actual living present that is who one

> > > truly is.

> > >

> > > - Dan

> >

> > This past-based 'mode of experiencing' is, of course, not continuous.

> >

> > For example, one may " get into " a piece of music and forget about time

> > altogether.

>

> Yes.

>

> With " full absorption " there is no sense of being absorbed, no starting or

> ending point of it. It is primordial non-division.

>

> One is the music, one is the hearing of it, and that which hears is the

> music.

>

> In this sense, nothing is happening, nothing was heard.

>

> -- D --

>

> No. In this kind of absortion there is a temporary " absent-mindness " , but

> then all comes back and the imagined center is there again.

> -geo-

 

What are you saying " no " to, above?

 

All I said was that the imaginary center isn't continuous, and Dan agreed. And

you then said " no " , and agreed with us as well (?).