Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? P: It simply means that as long as a brain believes it's a self, it would have to recreate that illusion again and again in this life. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words. Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... ~A > Werner > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > P: It simply means that as long as a brain > believes it's a self, it would have to > recreate that illusion again and again in > this life. > > > After death recreating that illusion in this life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963 wrote:>> Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses?>folks who still identify with their body ~like reincarnation ~ identify with...their ignorant masses Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > Werner > Including " you'! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words.ione We are conditioned and brought up that way, Anna. > > Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... > Hm, is there any authority needed, either that of others or your own one to smell the scent of a rose, to enjoy a sunset, to dance with the rhythm of drums, do make love to each other ? Werner > ~A > > Werner > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , "anabebe57" <kailashana wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" wwoehr@ wrote:> >> > Nisargadatta , "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:> > >> > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses?> > >> > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority.> > > > > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words.> > Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... > > ~A> > Werner> >"Trial and Error"!!??Still sounds pretty Authoritarian!!!Who's the judge?What's the error?I reject all authorityIncluding my ownRather:"A man does what he feels"(from a Charles Bronson movie)..if and when it feels goodLet's say that my feelings in the NowAre MY only "authority"> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > Werner > > > Including " you'! > Ok, ok, Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " Edg Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > Ok, ok, > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. > > Werner > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg wrote: Outer guru is challenging inner guru is what is happening. > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > Edg > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. > > > > Werner > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: Outer guru is challenging inner guru is what is happening. Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with this word, " challenging? " > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > Edg > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Doug, yer starving me to death. What a way to die. Just you wait, I'm going to feed you to death -- only way to balance things, eh? Edg Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg@> wrote: > > Outer guru is challenging inner guru is what is happening. > > And the outer is no different than the inner. > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg wrote: > > " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: Outer guru is challenging inner guru is what is happening. > > Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with this word, " challenging? " > > Inner guru reveals no reincarnation. Outer guru (Nisargadatta) reveals no reincarnation, except if a person believes in reincarnation. This is the challenge: How could Nis say that? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963 wrote:>> Nisargadatta , "duveyoung" edg@ wrote:> >> > "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: Outer guru is challenging inner guru is what is happening.> > > > Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with this word, "challenging?" > > > > Inner guru reveals no reincarnation. Outer guru (Nisargadatta) reveals no reincarnation, except if a person believes in reincarnation. This is the challenge: How could Nis say that?Edg: I have posted here in some detail about the Cosmic Ego. To me, the Cosmic Ego is an all-time reality that can be identified with even after identification with the individual ego has ceased, and Cosmic Ego can be said to have the universe as its body. That ego can be said to be the incarnating false sentience of all beings -- thus: incarnation is as real as anything if reality is taken to be ultimate. But, Nisargadatta says he's eaten the world, and I take that to mean that he's dumped identifying with the Cosmic Ego also. Like that, I think that one can have one's incarnation and escape it too.When Nisargadatta died, the Cosmic Ego said: "Where the fuck did Nisargadatta go? I was just being him a moment ago, and now, he's nowhere to be found." Edg> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it?> > > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me and scream "go back inside your head there's no droids to find here."> > > > > > > > Edg> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Nisargadatta , "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Nisargadatta , "douglasmitch1963" <douglasmitch1963@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner> > > > > > >> > > > > > Including "you'!> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok,> > > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their promises.> > > > > > > > > > Werner> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words.ione > > > We are conditioned and brought up that way, Anna. > > > > > > Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... > > > > > Hm, is there any authority needed, either that of others or your own one to smell the scent of a rose, to enjoy a sunset, to dance with the rhythm of drums, do make love to each other ? > > Werner > > > > ~A Of course not, but the troubling is that most folks are lost in gaining/losing/abusing/misusing/perusing *authority*. So rarely is a sunset, a rose, a dance, or lovemaking taken to the enjoyment that is *naturally* offered...which is *authority*...imo. Authority to be who/whatever one focuses upon. Lost in the moment or ______________. Much Love Werner, and the irony is we know so little about our close net friends, some of whom we have known for years. And only recently have folks started to journey to meet folks even in their own state. I shake my head and wonder why. Strange. ~A > > > Werner > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " edg@ wrote: > > > > > > " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: Outer guru is > challenging inner guru is what is happening. > > > > > > Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my > outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with > this word, " challenging? " > > > > > > Inner guru reveals no reincarnation. Outer guru (Nisargadatta) > reveals no reincarnation, except if a person believes in reincarnation. > This is the challenge: How could Nis say that? > > Edg: I have posted here in some detail about the Cosmic Ego. To me, > the Cosmic Ego is an all-time reality that can be identified with even > after identification with the individual ego has ceased, and Cosmic Ego > can be said to have the universe as its body. That ego can be said to > be the incarnating false sentience of all beings -- thus: incarnation is > as real as anything if reality is taken to be ultimate. > > But, Nisargadatta says he's eaten the world, and I take that to mean > that he's dumped identifying with the Cosmic Ego also. Like that, I > think that one can have one's incarnation and escape it too. > > When Nisargadatta died, the Cosmic Ego said: " Where the fuck did > Nisargadatta go? I was just being him a moment ago, and now, he's > nowhere to be found. " > > Edg > > > > > >Not buying the Cosmic Ego concept. But nice theory. It's ok if i don't always get what Nisargadatta said. Just wondering aloud online. Thanks for your input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own > opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me > and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful > thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after > death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says > to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth > if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that > reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his > later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just > different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their > promises. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 What's not cutting it as far as you're concerned with the Cosmic Ego concept? What seems jarring or missing or illogical? Edg Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " edg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: Outer guru is > > challenging inner guru is what is happening. > > > > > > > > Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my > > outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with > > this word, " challenging? " > > > > > > > > Inner guru reveals no reincarnation. Outer guru (Nisargadatta) > > reveals no reincarnation, except if a person believes in reincarnation. > > This is the challenge: How could Nis say that? > > > > Edg: I have posted here in some detail about the Cosmic Ego. To me, > > the Cosmic Ego is an all-time reality that can be identified with even > > after identification with the individual ego has ceased, and Cosmic Ego > > can be said to have the universe as its body. That ego can be said to > > be the incarnating false sentience of all beings -- thus: incarnation is > > as real as anything if reality is taken to be ultimate. > > > > But, Nisargadatta says he's eaten the world, and I take that to mean > > that he's dumped identifying with the Cosmic Ego also. Like that, I > > think that one can have one's incarnation and escape it too. > > > > When Nisargadatta died, the Cosmic Ego said: " Where the fuck did > > Nisargadatta go? I was just being him a moment ago, and now, he's > > nowhere to be found. " > > > > Edg > > > > > > > >Not buying the Cosmic Ego concept. But nice theory. It's ok if i don't always get what Nisargadatta said. Just wondering aloud online. Thanks for your input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own > > opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me > > and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful > > thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after > > death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says > > to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth > > if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that > > reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his > > later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just > > different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their > > promises. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words.ione > > > > > > We are conditioned and brought up that way, Anna. > > > > > > > > > > Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... > > > > > > > > > Hm, is there any authority needed, either that of others or your own one to smell the scent of a rose, to enjoy a sunset, to dance with the rhythm of drums, do make love to each other ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > > ~A > > Of course not, but the troubling is that most folks are lost in gaining/losing/abusing/misusing/perusing *authority*. > > So rarely is a sunset, a rose, a dance, or lovemaking taken to the > enjoyment that is *naturally* offered...which is *authority*...imo. > > Authority to be who/whatever one focuses upon. > > Lost in the moment or ______________. > > Much Love Werner, and the irony is we know so little about our close net friends, some of whom we have known for years. > > And only recently have folks started to journey to meet folks even in their own state. > > I shake my head and wonder why. > > Strange. Don't shake you head to much, Anna. It will make you dizzy. Let me ask you, Anna, what does 'knowing each other' mean for you and when will that knowing start and when will it end and what then will you do with it, wiil you write a book or some novel ? What is it that you really are missing ? Are you out of dope ? Werner > > ~A > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg wrote: > > What's not cutting it as far as you're concerned with the Cosmic Ego concept? What seems jarring or missing or illogical? > > Edg > " I am " already contains the concept of being the cosmos. No adding it after the death of the body. The body is the food for consciousness. Once the food is gone so is the consciousness of that food body. There is no longer a bigger body to identify with. > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " edg@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: Outer guru is > > > challenging inner guru is what is happening. > > > > > > > > > > Edg: Can ya give me a paragraph at least? I don't feel that my > > > outer guru is at odds with my inner guru. So, what's ya gettin' at with > > > this word, " challenging? " > > > > > > > > > > Inner guru reveals no reincarnation. Outer guru (Nisargadatta) > > > reveals no reincarnation, except if a person believes in reincarnation. > > > This is the challenge: How could Nis say that? > > > > > > Edg: I have posted here in some detail about the Cosmic Ego. To me, > > > the Cosmic Ego is an all-time reality that can be identified with even > > > after identification with the individual ego has ceased, and Cosmic Ego > > > can be said to have the universe as its body. That ego can be said to > > > be the incarnating false sentience of all beings -- thus: incarnation is > > > as real as anything if reality is taken to be ultimate. > > > > > > But, Nisargadatta says he's eaten the world, and I take that to mean > > > that he's dumped identifying with the Cosmic Ego also. Like that, I > > > think that one can have one's incarnation and escape it too. > > > > > > When Nisargadatta died, the Cosmic Ego said: " Where the fuck did > > > Nisargadatta go? I was just being him a moment ago, and now, he's > > > nowhere to be found. " > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > >Not buying the Cosmic Ego concept. But nice theory. It's ok if i don't always get what Nisargadatta said. Just wondering aloud online. Thanks for your input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own > > > opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me personally, I need an outer guru to conceptually beat on me > > > and scream " go back inside your head there's no droids to find here. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " > > > <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful > > > thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after > > > death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says > > > to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth > > > if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that > > > reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his > > > later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just > > > different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Including " you'! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, ok, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just go on following authorties and to believe all their > > > promises. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > P: It simply means that as long as a brain > > believes it's a self, it would have to > > recreate that illusion again and again in > > this life. > > > > > >D: After death recreating that illusion in this life? P: No, I didn't mention the death of the body. Rebirth is not the same as reincarnation. The sense of Pete dies when not remembering my life. In a subjectless consciousness state there is no Pete. Pete is reborn every time the subject stance reappears. This new Pete only seems to have continuity, in reality, it is a brand new " I'm Pete thought. " > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " duveyoung " <edg@> wrote: > > > > Werner, You are not listening to Doug. You're taking your own opinion as authoritative. Get it? > > > Yes, I get it, > > and from now on I no longer will have opinions. It is so stupid to have any. > > > > > Werner P: That's an opinion that you'll drop like a hot potato. Kamikaze opinions don't live long. ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 > > Edg: I have posted here in some detail about the Cosmic Ego. To me, > the Cosmic Ego is an all-time reality that can be identified with even > after identification with the individual ego has ceased, and Cosmic Ego > can be said to have the universe as its body. That ego can be said to > be the incarnating false sentience of all beings -- thus: incarnation is > as real as anything if reality is taken to be ultimate. > > But, Nisargadatta says he's eaten the world, and I take that to mean > that he's dumped identifying with the Cosmic Ego also. Like that, I > think that one can have one's incarnation and escape it too. > > When Nisargadatta died, the Cosmic Ego said: " Where the fuck did > Nisargadatta go? I was just being him a moment ago, and now, he's > nowhere to be found. " > > Edg P: As long as you believe in such crappy conceptual idols as a Comic Ego, you won't be able to feel as infinite emptiness. For Christs Sake! Snow White is a better thought out fairy tale than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 31, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " douglasmitch1963 " <douglasmitch1963@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not interpret the following as wishful thinking on my part. I have no delusion about individual life after death. However, I have noticed when reading Nisargadatta that he says to folks who still identify with the body that they must undergo rebirth if that is their belief. How does this square with Nis' teaching that reincarnation is not real and meant for the ignorant masses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When younger Niz believed in reincarnatioin but in his later years he denied that there is such a thing. This are just different phases in his life which confuse you. > > > > > > > > > > The conclusion is better not to blieve in any authority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The troubling fact of life is, that for whatever reason, we hang on to dear life with famous dead guys (trademark) words.ione > > > > > > > > > We are conditioned and brought up that way, Anna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until we become our own authority, thru trial and error... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hm, is there any authority needed, either that of others or your own one to smell the scent of a rose, to enjoy a sunset, to dance with the rhythm of drums, do make love to each other ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > ~A > > > > Of course not, but the troubling is that most folks are lost in gaining/losing/abusing/misusing/perusing *authority*. > > > > So rarely is a sunset, a rose, a dance, or lovemaking taken to the > > enjoyment that is *naturally* offered...which is *authority*...imo. > > > > Authority to be who/whatever one focuses upon. > > > > Lost in the moment or ______________. > > > > Much Love Werner, and the irony is we know so little about our close net friends, some of whom we have known for years. > > > > And only recently have folks started to journey to meet folks even in their own state. > > > > I shake my head and wonder why. > > > > Strange. > > > Don't shake you head to much, Anna. It will make you dizzy. ok now I'm rolling on the floor, laughing... stop! gotta get air... stop! > > Let me ask you, Anna, what does 'knowing each other' mean for you and when will that knowing start and when will it end and what then will you do with it, wiil you write a book or some novel ? let's just say it's relative.... in the moment I know someone. no one and every one... sometimes all three simultaneously. :-0 I kinda know you by how I feel in your presence (YES! Even on-line) > > What is it that you really are missing ? Are you out of dope ? > > > > Werner Missing? well, let's just say whatever draws us all together is what is missing.... ;-) Love and stuff, Anna p.s. I don't do much dope; my body-mind does quite enough... thank you very much...!!! > > > > > > ~A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
