Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:12 PM Re: Re: Truth - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > self > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > must > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > cannot > > and never will change. > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > odd > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > strange ? > > > > Werner > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > There is nothing to know. > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an object. > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined as > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > the > past remained. > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > That's all. > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > -- D -- > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > -geo- Funny, but I don't see any things. - d - Funnier, how can you say you dont see something you dont see? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' which > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To reject > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self or > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? What > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent and > > free ? > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > Werner > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > michellle > We ARE the programming. We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for happiness. toombaru First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > cannot > > > and never will change. > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > odd > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > strange ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an object. > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined as > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > the > > past remained. > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > That's all. > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > -- D -- > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > -geo- > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > - d - > > What things that you dont see? > -geo- The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent and free ? > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > michellle > We ARE the programming. > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for happiness. > > > > toombaru According to you, you would say whatever you are programmed to say. If you were programmed to say, " God exists, and Christians like me know it, " then that is what you would say. Anything said by anyone is equal, as it is all equally the result of programming, whatever that is supposed to mean. And who cares what it means? A programmed machine doesn't care about what the programming means. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > geo > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:12 PM > Re: Re: Truth - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > Re: Truth > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > cannot > > > and never will change. > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > odd > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > strange ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an object. > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined as > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > the > > past remained. > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > That's all. > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > -- D -- > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > -geo- > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > - d - > > Funnier, how can you say you dont see something you dont see? > -geo- Easy. Nothing to it. Because I see/am no-thing. The things to which you refer aren't here. Indeed, there is only here, and nothing else, nothing is being referred to. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' which > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To reject > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self or > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? What > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent and > > > free ? > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > michellle > > > > We ARE the programming. > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > happiness. > > toombaru > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > -geo- Good. Because the programming metaphor breaks down. It is useless, in fact. It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. Then it dissolves. It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical > > > > > ? > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > cannot > > > and never will change. > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > odd > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > strange ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > object. > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined > > as > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > the > > past remained. > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > That's all. > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > -- D -- > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > -geo- > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > - d - > > What things that you dont see? > -geo- The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. - d - Do you see animals? -ego- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > which > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > reject > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > or > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > What > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > and > > > free ? > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > michellle > > > > We ARE the programming. > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > happiness. > > toombaru > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > -geo- Good. Because the programming metaphor breaks down. It is useless, in fact. It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. Then it dissolves. It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. - d - When you avoid being hit by a car, what is the you and wha tis the car? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical > > > > > ? > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > cannot > > > and never will change. > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > odd > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > strange ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > object. > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined > > as > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > the > > past remained. > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > That's all. > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > -- D -- > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > -geo- > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > - d - > > What things that you dont see? > -geo- The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. - d - How can you understand anybody " referr " to things if there are no things? To what no-thing are they referring to? -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:10 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > michellle > We ARE the programming. > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > happiness. > > > > toombaru According to you, you would say whatever you are programmed to say. If you were programmed to say, " God exists, and Christians like me know it, " then that is what you would say. Anything said by anyone is equal, as it is all equally the result of programming, whatever that is supposed to mean. And who cares what it means? A programmed machine doesn't care about what the programming means. - d - A programmed machine cares about what the programming is programed for. He cares for some things couldnt care less for others. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > which > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > reject > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > or > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > What > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > and > > > free ? > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > michellle > > > > We ARE the programming. > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > happiness. > > toombaru > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > -geo- Good. Because the programming metaphor breaks down. It is useless, in fact. It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. Then it dissolves. It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. - d - But you know what " programming " and " metaphor " and " breaks down " means -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > > self > > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical > > > > > > ? > > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > > must > > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > > hard > > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > > cannot > > > > and never will change. > > > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > > odd > > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > > strange ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > > object. > > > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined > > > as > > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > > the > > > past remained. > > > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > > > That's all. > > > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > > -geo- > > > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > > - d - > > > > What things that you dont see? > > -geo- > > The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. > > - d - > > Do you see animals? > -ego- I see distinctions. I see the distinction referred to as an animal - but it doesn't have any kind of separate existence of its own. I'm not fooled by the label " animal " to think of a separately existing thing. What actually is, is nondivided, but distinctions are visible without separating anything. People can refer to things as if they were separate, such as " people " " animals " , etc., but none of it is. The point of this is that this is all I see. There isn't anything else to see, or feel, or touch, or be. Making a point to say that people are mechanical creatures doesn't fit for me here. Why single out people and refer to them as something else, a machine, which is something that people construct? The point being made doesn't fit for me. I'm not seeing separately existing things, I'm not experiencing time as having separations to it (although I can use conventions to refer to the past, if I wish), and there is no point that I can see to separating people out from everything else to refer to them as something programmed and mechanical. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > which > > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > reject > > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > > or > > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > What > > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > > and > > > > free ? > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > michellle > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > happiness. > > > > toombaru > > > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > > -geo- > > Good. > > Because the programming metaphor breaks down. > > It is useless, in fact. > > It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. > > Then it dissolves. > > It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. > > - d - > > When you avoid being hit by a car, what is the you and wha tis the car? > -geo- you don't need to ask this. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > > self > > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical > > > > > > ? > > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > > must > > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > > hard > > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > > cannot > > > > and never will change. > > > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But somehow > > > > odd > > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't that > > > > strange ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > > object. > > > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, imagined > > > as > > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something of > > > the > > > past remained. > > > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > > > That's all. > > > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > > -geo- > > > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > > - d - > > > > What things that you dont see? > > -geo- > > The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. > - d - > > How can you understand anybody " referr " to things if there are no things? To > what no-thing are they referring to? > -geo- to a misunderstanding, in which a conceptual separation is treated as if actual. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:10 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > happiness. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > According to you, you would say whatever you are programmed to say. > > If you were programmed to say, " God exists, and Christians like me know it, " > then that is what you would say. > > Anything said by anyone is equal, as it is all equally the result of > programming, whatever that is supposed to mean. > > And who cares what it means? > > A programmed machine doesn't care about what the programming means. > > - d - > > A programmed machine cares about what the programming is programed for. He > cares for some things couldnt care less for others. > -geo- all you are saying is what you are programmed to say, according to you. i guess you are programmed to type on the internet. i guess you have a programmed response to whatever you see posted there. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:15 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin > > > > > > > > 'communicare' > > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > > self > > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not > > > > > > mechanical > > > > > > ? > > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > > must > > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > > hard > > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > > cannot > > > > and never will change. > > > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But > > > > somehow > > > > odd > > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't > > > > that > > > > strange ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > > object. > > > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, > > > imagined > > > as > > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something > > > of > > > the > > > past remained. > > > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > > > That's all. > > > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > > -geo- > > > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > > - d - > > > > What things that you dont see? > > -geo- > > The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. > > - d - > > Do you see animals? > -ego- I see distinctions. I see the distinction referred to as an animal - but it doesn't have any kind of separate existence of its own. geo> That is all. Things are distinctions. Organism is a distinction. A chair also. ===== I'm not fooled by the label " animal " to think of a separately existing thing. What actually is, is nondivided, but distinctions are visible without separating anything. People can refer to things as if they were separate, such as " people " " animals " , etc., but none of it is. The point of this is that this is all I see. There isn't anything else to see, or feel, or touch, or be. Making a point to say that people are mechanical creatures doesn't fit for me here. geo> Not only organisms but the whole consciousness is a mechanical sphere. No doer, no seer....just a chain of reactions. Mechanical. A mechanical suit is being weared. == Why single out people and refer to them as something else, a machine, which is something that people construct? The point being made doesn't fit for me. I'm not seeing separately existing things, I'm not experiencing time as having separations to it (although I can use conventions to refer to the past, if I wish), and there is no point that I can see to separating people out from everything else to refer to them as something programmed and mechanical. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject > > > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > > > or > > > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > What > > > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > > > and > > > > > free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > > happiness. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > > > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > > > -geo- > > > > Good. > > > > Because the programming metaphor breaks down. > > > > It is useless, in fact. > > > > It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. > > > > Then it dissolves. > > > > It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. > > > > - d - > > > > But you know what " programming " and " metaphor " and " breaks down " means > > -geo- > > yes, i'm using words. > > i think that's pretty obvious. > > - d - > So.............yer unin words are ya? Yer stakin em up like cord wood huh? Ya makin some kina fort or sumthin? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:20 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:10 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > self > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > must > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > happiness. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > According to you, you would say whatever you are programmed to say. > > If you were programmed to say, " God exists, and Christians like me know > it, " > then that is what you would say. > > Anything said by anyone is equal, as it is all equally the result of > programming, whatever that is supposed to mean. > > And who cares what it means? > > A programmed machine doesn't care about what the programming means. > > - d - > > A programmed machine cares about what the programming is programed for. He > cares for some things couldnt care less for others. > -geo- all you are saying is what you are programmed to say, according to you. i guess you are programmed to type on the internet. i guess you have a programmed response to whatever you see posted there. - d - Dont you see it?? It is so!!! We do nothing. If you decide it has been decided,.... if you choose, it has been chosen... I thought this was clear to you. -ego- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:17 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2006 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > which > > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > reject > > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > self > > > > > or > > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > What > > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > > and > > > > free ? > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > must > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > michellle > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > happiness. > > > > toombaru > > > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are > > two > > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > > -geo- > > Good. > > Because the programming metaphor breaks down. > > It is useless, in fact. > > It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. > > Then it dissolves. > > It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. > > - d - > > When you avoid being hit by a car, what is the you and wha tis the car? > -geo- you don't need to ask this. - d - I dont understand...why? Because a car is one thing and your organism is another and that contradicts what you where saying? There is multiplicity as " this " . There is distinction as " this " . There is a whole human world as " this " . Trying to deny it is doubting the solidity of the dreamed solid. Dont doubt. It can dream lots of things and no-things and all-things.... including suns adn black wholes and.... -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:18 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:06 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:23 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:31 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " > > > > <michelleedge20@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin > > > > > > > > 'communicare' > > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like > > > > > > > > computers > > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > To > > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > > self > > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not > > > > > > mechanical > > > > > > ? > > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > > must > > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word > > > > > > 'mechanical' > > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are > > > > > hard > > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, Michelle, > > > > > > > > this seems the most plausible. > > > > > > > > The whole Universe just a huge machine following eternal laws which > > > > cannot > > > > and never will change. > > > > > > > > All this talk about liberation and freedom just an escape. But > > > > somehow > > > > odd > > > > that a mechanical creature wants to get free and liberated, isn't > > > > that > > > > strange ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Saying there is a mechanical creature is a pretense of knowledge. > > > > > > There is nothing to know. > > > > > > You can't step out of the present to know anything about it as an > > > object. > > > > > > The past is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The future is not, and can't be known. > > > > > > The knower is a fictional stringing together of memory images, > > > imagined > > > as > > > forms being retained, as if forms could be retained, as if something > > > of > > > the > > > past remained. > > > > > > The self or knower is just the imagined retention of what isn't held. > > > > > > No knower, nothing known, nothing to be known, no lack of knowledge. > > > > > > That's all. > > > > > > No mechanical creature, no authoritative stance to be taken. > > > > > > -- D -- > > > > > > The human animal is a mechanical criature. > > > -geo- > > > > Funny, but I don't see any things. > > - d - > > > > What things that you dont see? > > -geo- > > The ones you're referring to as mechanical creatures. > - d - > > How can you understand anybody " referr " to things if there are no things? > To > what no-thing are they referring to? > -geo- to a misunderstanding, in which a conceptual separation is treated as if actual. - d - No separation at all. Empty patterning as things. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> Not only organisms but the whole consciousness is a mechanical sphere. > No doer, no seer....just a chain of reactions. Mechanical. A mechanical suit > is being weared. > == You must separate yourself from what you are observing to make this comment, if it is to have any meaning. It is assumed that the speaker of the comment is not speaking mechanically, and is able to observe a mechanical sphere that operates differently than the observer of it, who is commenting about it. This division of the commentator from the commented upon, of the observer from the observed, is a conceptual division that is not actual. No point in putting energy into it as if it were actual. Indeed, according to you, words offered by an organism such as geo are mechanical, and therefore any comments you offer about it are mechanical. Thus, the commentary has no meaning to anyone, as there are just a bunch of mechanically operating machines functioning, according to you, who also are a machine, and whose speech is just programming like all the other machines, according to your model. This model is a metaphor that has no use once one is at the point of no-division awareness. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2006 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > > reject > > > > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No self > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > > What > > > > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > > > > and > > > > > > free ? > > > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there must > > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > > > happiness. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are two > > > > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > > > > -geo- > > > > > > Good. > > > > > > Because the programming metaphor breaks down. > > > > > > It is useless, in fact. > > > > > > It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. > > > > > > Then it dissolves. > > > > > > It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > But you know what " programming " and " metaphor " and " breaks down " means > > > -geo- > > > > yes, i'm using words. > > > > i think that's pretty obvious. > > > > - d - > > > > > > So.............yer unin words are ya? > > Yer stakin em up like cord wood huh? > > Ya makin some kina fort or sumthin? > > > > > toombaru i'm watching them burn as they flow, and flow as they burn, or sumthin. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:20 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:10 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > What about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it > > > > > independent and free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > > happiness. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > According to you, you would say whatever you are programmed to say. > > > > If you were programmed to say, " God exists, and Christians like me know > > it, " > > then that is what you would say. > > > > Anything said by anyone is equal, as it is all equally the result of > > programming, whatever that is supposed to mean. > > > > And who cares what it means? > > > > A programmed machine doesn't care about what the programming means. > > > > - d - > > > > A programmed machine cares about what the programming is programed for. He > > cares for some things couldnt care less for others. > > -geo- > > all you are saying is what you are programmed to say, according to you. > > i guess you are programmed to type on the internet. > > i guess you have a programmed response to whatever you see posted there. > > - d - > > Dont you see it?? It is so!!! We do nothing. If you decide it has been > decided,.... if you choose, it has been chosen... I thought this was clear > to you. > -ego- how can I see anything when according to you I am mechanical programming? you contradict yourself. there is nothing to be seen. there is no one to make it clear to. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:17 PM > Re: Truth > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:14 PM > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2006 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:47 PM > > > Re: Truth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " michelleedge20 " <michelleedge20@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word communication has its root in the Latin 'communicare' > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > means 'to care together'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we caring together like humans or are we just like computers > > > > > > > responding in a very limited way ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Both, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > To care about others (not-care about oneself) is mechanical. To > > > > > > reject > > > > > > others (care about oneself) is mechanical. > > > > > > > > > > > > What isn't mechanical, need not and cannot be commented on. No > > > > > > self > > > > > > or > > > > > > others are involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical topic is quite interesting, Tim. > > > > > > > > > > Is there an opposite to acting mechanical which is not mechanical ? > > > > > What > > > > > about intelligence ? Is intelligence mechanical or is it independent > > > > > and > > > > > free ? > > > > > > > > > > But to call a human action as mechanical also implies that there > > > > > must > > > > > exist something which is not mechanical, else that word 'mechanical' > > > > > would not exist. What about Love (with a capital 'L') ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > sounds as if we function according to our programming .if we are hard > > > > wired for happiness ,it s desire that may cause a malfunction. > > > > michellle > > > > > > > > > > We ARE the programming. > > > We are not programmed for happiness.....we are programmed to search for > > > happiness. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > First, we are the programing, then....we are programed....so there are > > > two > > > wes. I think I am a bit dizzy today... > > > -geo- > > > > Good. > > > > Because the programming metaphor breaks down. > > > > It is useless, in fact. > > > > It's one of those things - a metaphor that is only good up to a point. > > > > Then it dissolves. > > > > It dissolves as one understands that knowledge of things doesn't apply. > > > > - d - > > > > When you avoid being hit by a car, what is the you and wha tis the car? > > -geo- > > you don't need to ask this. > > - d - > > I dont understand...why? Because a car is one thing and your organism is > another and that contradicts what you where saying? > There is multiplicity as " this " . There is distinction as " this " . There is a > whole human world as " this " . Trying to deny it is doubting the solidity of > the dreamed solid. Dont doubt. It can dream lots of things and no-things and > all-things.... including suns adn black wholes and.... > -geo- why? because it is a lot of extraneous thought, and putting energy into it makes little sense. if a car misses hitting me, i walk on. i'm not dwelling on what is me and what is the car, etc. no one is denying anything. perhaps you would like to believe so, so you can contend against another point of view. there aren't any points of view here to contend with, against, or for. - d - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 30, 2009 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:55 PM Re: Truth Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> Not only organisms but the whole consciousness is a mechanical > sphere. > No doer, no seer....just a chain of reactions. Mechanical. A mechanical > suit > is being weared. > == You must separate yourself from what you are observing to make this comment, if it is to have any meaning. It is assumed that the speaker of the comment is not speaking mechanically, and is able to observe a mechanical sphere that operates differently than the observer of it, who is commenting about it. This division of the commentator from the commented upon, of the observer from the observed, is a conceptual division that is not actual. No point in putting energy into it as if it were actual. Indeed, according to you, words offered by an organism such as geo are mechanical, and therefore any comments you offer about it are mechanical. Thus, the commentary has no meaning to anyone, as there are just a bunch of mechanically operating machines functioning, according to you, who also are a machine, and whose speech is just programming like all the other machines, according to your model. This model is a metaphor that has no use once one is at the point of no-division awareness. - d - No model, no metaphor...no need for that nonesense. The seeing of the machanicalness of the world, is nonmechanicalness. -ego- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
