Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 > > > > > > The human being cannot get outside itself to know it's a human > > > > > > being. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, the human being is not a human being. > > > > > > > > > > > > Reality is. Nothing more can be said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allow me please to add a bit more: > > > > > > > > > > There are as many realities as ther are human beings. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > True, as there are no human beings ;-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your nose out of all those Advaita books and forget all that bull. > > > Get > > > a live, Tim. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I am Life. > > > > Reality is artificially split by thought and imagination. > > > > Reality imagines itself a human being. > > > > Imagines there's a " Tim " . > > > > geo> There is difference between " Tim " and " human being " . > > Tim may leave right now....the human being will remain till the body > > kicks - > > without Tim. > > " The human being " is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. > > geo> Really? Try to convince yourself, or geo if you prefer, to be a snake > being. > I am waiting. A snake is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. Try to convince yourself to be anything. Good luck! ;-). You aren't anything. geo> Yes I am nothing. That is clear. What I am saying is that " geo " as an event, and " humanity " as an event are fundamentaly different in their nature. Through imagination could I turn into a fish and breathe water? The question sounds like joke but it is not. Could I through belief live in water? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Got life? ~A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anabebe57 " <kailashana wrote: > > Got life? > > ~A Life is what I am, not what I " have " . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 > > > > I am Life. > > > > Reality is artificially split by thought and imagination. > > > > Reality imagines itself a human being. > > > > Imagines there's a " Tim " . > > > > geo> There is difference between " Tim " and " human being " . > > Tim may leave right now....the human being will remain till the body > > kicks - > > without Tim. > > " The human being " is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. > > geo> Really? Try to convince yourself, or geo if you prefer, to be a snake > being. > I am waiting. A snake is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. Try to convince yourself to be anything. Good luck! ;-). You aren't anything. geo> Yes I am nothing. That is clear. What I am saying is that " geo " as an event, and " humanity " as an event are fundamentaly different in their nature. Through imagination could I turn into a fish and breathe water? The question sounds like joke but it is not. Could I through belief live in water? geo> Let me put in words how I see it. The dream " tim " is something you can change more or less easily. The dream " humanity " is dreamed by a mind that is in another dimension. You can not stop dreamin being a human and freely choose to live like a fish from now on. The dream of humanity was " decided " in a different field then the dream " tim " . By this I am not denying the fact that these/those dreams are empty patterns. And there is the first dreaming machine, the fundamental universal mind that is able to dream any kind of manifestation whatsoever - that is even " further " removed from us as humans. The ground is beyond that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 > > > > > > geo> There is difference between " Tim " and " human being " . > > > Tim may leave right now....the human being will remain till the body > > > kicks - > > > without Tim. > > > > " The human being " is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. > > > > geo> Really? Try to convince yourself, or geo if you prefer, to be a > > snake > > being. > > I am waiting. > > A snake is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. > > Try to convince yourself to be anything. Good luck! ;-). You aren't > anything. > > geo> Yes I am nothing. That is clear. You aren't nothing, if " nothing " is something. Is *that* clear? geo> Yes. By being nothing I am everything.only if nothing is not a thing. > What I am saying is that " geo " as an > event, and " humanity " as an event are fundamentaly different in > their nature. Neither has any nature, as far as I can see, other than the nature of concept. geo> They are concepts (as their nature) conceived by different minds. One is quite accesible to us, the other is not so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 - geo Nisargadatta Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:24 PM Re: Re: The human being > > > > I am Life. > > > > Reality is artificially split by thought and imagination. > > > > Reality imagines itself a human being. > > > > Imagines there's a " Tim " . > > > > geo> There is difference between " Tim " and " human being " . > > Tim may leave right now....the human being will remain till the body > > kicks - > > without Tim. > > " The human being " is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. > > geo> Really? Try to convince yourself, or geo if you prefer, to be a snake > being. > I am waiting. A snake is a verbal/conceptual definition. It's imaginary. Try to convince yourself to be anything. Good luck! ;-). You aren't anything. geo> Yes I am nothing. That is clear. What I am saying is that " geo " as an event, and " humanity " as an event are fundamentaly different in their nature. Through imagination could I turn into a fish and breathe water? The question sounds like joke but it is not. Could I through belief live in water? geo> Let me put in words how I see it. The dream " tim " is something you can change more or less easily. The dream " humanity " is dreamed by a mind that is in another dimension. You can not stop dreamin being a human and freely choose to live like a fish from now on. The dream of humanity was " decided " in a different field then the dream " tim " . By this I am not denying the fact that these/those dreams are empty patterns. And there is the first dreaming machine, the fundamental universal mind that is able to dream any kind of manifestation whatsoever - that is even " further " removed from us as humans. The ground is beyond that. geo> Can you see Asclepius how far can the human spirit reach? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Neither has any nature, as far as I can see, other than the nature of > concept. > > geo> They are concepts (as their nature) conceived by different > minds. The notion of " different minds " is also a concept. One cannot onceptualize themselves out of concept. Give up, let go of all of it. There's nothing else to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:28 PM Re: The human being Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> Let me put in words how I see it. Fair enough, and I'll respond in words how I see it. > The dream " tim " is something you can change more or less easily. Is there somebody there to change something? It can change. Nobody can change it. Nobody is apart from it to do so. > The dream > " humanity " is dreamed by a mind that is in another dimension. Which mind? > You can not > stop dreamin being a human and freely choose to live like a fish > from now > on. Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to be a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, happening now? > The dream of humanity was " decided " in a different field then the > dream > " tim " . By this I am not denying the fact that these/those dreams > are empty > patterns. And there is the first dreaming machine, the fundamental > > universal > mind that is able to dream any kind of manifestation whatsoever - > that is > even " further " removed from us as humans. The ground is beyond that. I see this as all academic, Geo. Either let go of imagination/concept and return to the Ground, or don't. geo> It is not academic at all tim. No academic will ever accept this. It is called internal cosmology. But you can choose to not give a damm for all this busness - it is OK. But if you do care to understand then you will see that there is a mind within a mind within a mind. To say that you can influence the first fundamental universal mind is just your personal folly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Saturday, June 13, 2009 3:35 PM Re: The human being Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Neither has any nature, as far as I can see, other than the nature of > concept. > > geo> They are concepts (as their nature) conceived by different > minds. The notion of " different minds " is also a concept. One cannot onceptualize themselves out of concept. Give up, let go of all of it. There's nothing else to do. geo> Dear tim, I dont need to let go of anything at all. I have already mastigated, swllowed and digested this stuff some time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> It is not academic at all tim. " Tim " , too, is academic ;-). > No academic will ever accept this. It could. Any words, anything, could be accepted by an institution dedicated to words. Maybe this institution would be called " Maharishi Mahesh Yogi " or something instead of " Yale " , but it's the same thing. No difference whatsoever. > It is > called internal cosmology. It's still academic. Reality is beyond. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > geo> It is not academic at all tim. > > " Tim " , too, is academic ;-). > > > No academic will ever accept this. > > It could. Any words, anything, could be accepted by an institution dedicated to words. Maybe this institution would be called " Maharishi Mahesh Yogi " or something instead of " Yale " , but it's the same thing. No difference whatsoever. > > > It is > > called internal cosmology. > > It's still academic. Reality is beyond. BTW, nice chatting with ya, Geo... I'm off to kick back and listen to some music. Enjoy :-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to be a fish. After all, what is "fish" but a word and a mental picture, happening now? -tim- And you say I am conceptual(!!!) -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to be a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, happening now? > -tim- > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > -geo- " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is conceptual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > And if you get bitten by such a conceptual skane (which God might > > > fobid) the you will suffer from conceptual pain, right Tim ? > > > > Right, Werner ;-). > > BTW, I've never been bitten by a skane before. > > Oops, that must be " snake " . > > Gotta get our concepts straight ;-). > > Especially if I'm gonna say I took some Novocaine before the snake bit me, and I felt no pain, conceptual or otherwise. > Smile, Hope you can fogive me the 'skane' which indeed should have been 'snake'. I have pretty problems with my eyes and when eventually reading my post you inevivitably will have to meet mistypings. Thanks, Werner Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > Smile, > > Hope you can fogive me the 'skane' which indeed should have > been 'snake'. No, I'm going to hold it against you my whole life (chuckling)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:04 PM Re: The human being Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to be > a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, > happening now? > -tim- > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > -geo- " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is conceptual. geo> Being tim, good, bad, something, is concept. Your human body as a physiology - without any words - is not the same concept. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:04 PM > Re: The human being > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to be > > a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, > > happening now? > > -tim- > > > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > > -geo- > > " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is conceptual. > > geo> Being tim, good, bad, something, is concept. Your human body as a > physiology - without any words - is not the same concept. If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The human being cannot get outside itself to know it's a human being. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, the human being is not a human being. > > > > > > > > > > Reality is. Nothing more can be said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Allow me please to add a bit more: > > > > > > > > There are as many realities as ther are human beings. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > True, as there are no human beings ;-). > > > > > > > > > Get your nose out of all those Advaita books and forget all that bull. Get a live, Tim. > > > > Werner > > I am Life. > > Reality is artificially split by thought and imagination. > > Reality imagines itself a human being. > > Imagines there's a " Tim " . > > Imagines continuity where there is none. > > And is scared spitless of its essential emptiness. > P: When your brain is unconscious, Where is reality then? I would rather buy realty than reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > P: When your brain is unconscious, Where is reality then? Brain, brain, brain... do ya ever talk about anything else? Must be looking for someone to brain ya ;-). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:19 PM Re: The human being Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:04 PM > Re: The human being > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to > > be > > a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, > > happening now? > > -tim- > > > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > > -geo- > > " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is > conceptual. > > geo> Being tim, good, bad, something, is concept. Your human body as a > physiology - without any words - is not the same concept. If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. geo> Color red is concept? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 > > > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to > > be > > a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, > > happening now? > > -tim- > > > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > > -geo- > > " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is > conceptual. > > geo> Being tim, good, bad, something, is concept. Your human body as a > physiology - without any words - is not the same concept. If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. geo> Color red is concept? Or... feeling a pinch in your arm is a concept? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 > > Actually, if one can dream to be a human, one could ostensibly dream to > > be > > a fish. After all, what is " fish " but a word and a mental picture, > > happening now? > > -tim- > > > > And you say I am conceptual(!!!) > > -geo- > > " Being " is not conceptual. Being something (or being nothing) is > conceptual. > > geo> Being tim, good, bad, something, is concept. Your human body as a > physiology - without any words - is not the same concept. If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. -tim- If it's conceptualized.... it's concept. Ha...that is very clever. -geo- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. > > geo> Color red is concept? Of course... right this moment, it's being imagined. You cannot escape the moment. There is no other time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > If it's conceptualized.... it's concept. Ha...that is very clever. > -geo- Perception is of the nature of memory/thought as well. I tried an experiment yesterday... looking at my hand, then shutting my eyes very quickly and looking for any " after-image " . Not only was there one, but it persists for a full half-second. What you see when you " see " something is memory. I also tried moving my hand toward and away from my face, then shutting my eyes. In the after-image, I " saw " my hand come much closer to my face than it actually did. What we " see " is a pattern of prediction. Our own memory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 13, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > If it's conceptualized as a " body " , it's concept. > > > > geo> Color red is concept? > > Of course... right this moment, it's being imagined. > > You cannot escape the moment. > > There is no other time. > There is the time measured by the watch and there is psychological time like past and future. The 'Now' does not exist, it is a concept. The bulding up of consciousnes to make an event conscious needs about 400msec which means we never resalize the now because of the time lag consciousness needed to build up but we realize only what already some moment ago has happened. It seems to happen now because it is an appearence in consciousness and so we get tricked because we are used to believe that consciousness is representing the now, which it doesn't. Werner When you speak about the now then it is a philsophy, a concept or an idea. It is all just the usual crap intellectualy going on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
