Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Monday, May 25, 2009 9:18 PM Re: Thornless Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> Tim, I know what you mean. Existence is unborn, but manifestation is > born and dies. And that is something. Manifestation is conceptualized as being born and dying. And that is nothing. I am not " out there " somewhere. I am not one of the dying bodies. I am present now, and will be present at my death. > If only the potential ground where to exist...no manifestation...no > anything...just absolute emptiness....? ? ? ? > No. Manifestation happens. Look around you now. Where is " manifestation " ? I see a bedroom ;-). > We dont know how this manifestation will manifest > after the organism dies....nobady knows... > but it might be something. I certainly hope not. geo> Esplain, I dont understand Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Oh yes.....there's that Big self again. > > > > > > Do you imagine that if fulfills the same need that the imaginary gods > are so good at? > > > > No, I know for certain it's just a word like any other. I'm sorry to see you don't. > > > > > So.........there really isn't a Big self? > > Could you tell Phil. > > He seems to think it is real. > > > > > > toombaru maybe he thinks anything is real. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:47:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > lastrain writes: > > > So.........there really isn't a Big self? > > Could you tell Phil. > > He seems to think it is real. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > **Hell, I don't even think you're real. Hehe. he's not. does that tell you something about your talking to him? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:30:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > > > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. > Too > > much conditioning.' > > Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief > systems? > > > > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. > > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and > the emptiness is also a fullness? you don't know that. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:30:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > fewtch@ writes: > > > > > > > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. > > Too > > > much conditioning.' > > > Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > > > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief > > systems? > > > > > > > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. > > > > > > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and > > the emptiness is also a fullness? > > No. > > It's really none of my business judging folks, but from here it looks like he's reacting to words like an automaton. If I post the word " die " , he'd likely keel over (whoops... hehehe). yep it's really none of your business. gossip! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/26/2009 12:17:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. > > > > > > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, > and > > the emptiness is also a fullness? > > No. > > It's really none of my business judging folks, but from here it looks like > he's reacting to words like an automaton. If I post the word " die " , he'd > likely keel over (whoops... hehehe). > > > ***HA! I just said sumthin similar about a Pavlovian response. yes! small minds think alike. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2009 11:30:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > fewtch writes: > > > > > Okay, note to little self: 'Self not a good word to use around Toom. > Too > > much conditioning.' > > Is there another word you prefer? Beingness, Isness, Awareness, > > Consciousness, I Am, Jan Cox? Any of those align with your belief > systems? > > > > He's the " nothingness / emptiness / there is no " type. > > > > ***I see. Does he know the nothingness just means no object of mind, and > the emptiness is also a fullness? > > > See............now that's what I mean. " The emptiness is also a fullness " " You gotta live in the now. " " You are already enlightened. " " Samsara is Nirvana. " " We are all the Big Self. " Those are catch phrases that the conceptual mind comes up with that make absolutely no sense in its desperate attempt to believe that it has a grasp on the nature of things. It will listen to a criticism of its not so profound statements and say something like: " Oh.....I know it doesn't make sense.....it's just a finger pointing to the moon....or something equally inane. As it learns that it can impress a few people with its profound knowledge.....it may even gather a few who follow it around and want to know more....it descends ever deeper into its personal delirium. It may even write a book and start charging other people to sit in is presence so they too can live in the light. Most cling to the creation stories they have inherited from their tribe until they die. But: For a few.......a very few.....there comes a time when they see through all that baloney and venture off into the great unknown unburdened by other peoples speculations. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > OK > > > > So > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Silly. > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > -- Dan you seem to have a thorn up your ass. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > -geo- > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > It has not returned. > > > > > > toombaru it was never " there'. the " catharsis " is as illusory as the nonexistent self. nothing changes. nothing's gone..nothing returns. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > -geo- > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > It has not returned. > > toombaru > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > and night? > I can not. > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > -geo- surely you jest. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > -geo- > > > > Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. I dont even know if that is possible or not. > > I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often > > -geo- > > > > > > LOL > > > > It doesn't disappear per se. > > It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness. > > Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the in coming data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside. > > There is no human shaped phantom standing at the door. > > Impressions just bounces around in a hall of mirrors until their energy is depleted. > > They leave no residue behind...(there doesn't seem to be a place where they can stick).........and all perceptual data coming in is untainted by past associations. > > Everything sees to be freshly emerging from a most mysterious ground of being.....and that seems to be who I am. Hey......there's a baby deer. > > toombaru that " phase " is Here remembered. touching yet prosaic... it's darn cute. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > > > It has not returned. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > > and night? > > I can not. I can remember how solid it felt. > I can remember how frightened it was and how ofter it got its feeling hurt. > I remember its loneliness......and its rage. > I remember its struggles to get what it imagined to be its own enlightenment. > I remember it thinking that it was at least cutting the distance in half. > And I remember when all of that stopped. these trivialities will dissipate. when you don't remember when anything started nor stopped. time is always with you... until you are no more. ..b b.b. *******************************nnb************************************ > > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > > -geo- > Aren't all disciples temporary? > > > > (It is you that tease these words form me.......they emerge....weave a tapestry......I read them.....and they fill me up.......and I thank you for that.) > > > > > > love > > > > > toombaru > > > toombaru > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > > > It has not returned. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > > and night? > > I can not. > > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > > -geo- > > > > This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of > > meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply? > > Do you mind talking about it? > > -geo- > > > > > I have talked about several times on list so will give an abbreviated version: > > I was at a Las Vegas trade show and accidentally took one of my wife's medications. > > For some time, I had known intellectually that things in themselves had no existential reality. > > I knew that there was no such " thing " as a mountain, a river or the state of Texas. > > I had been thinking about that when I went to bed but as the medication took effect, my mind became somewhat garbled and the thought entered that " if things had no reality.....what does that say about the holder of things...namely me " . > > > I was gripped by the most intense panic that I had ever experienced. > (I had lived for years with acute panic attacks) > > The mind absolutely balked and refused to go any further. > > After a protracted life and death struggle.......I thought: > > " You little chicken shit.......all these years you have sought this confrontation........what if it never returns? " > > And I entered the Question. > > > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned. toombaru well golly.. who's there talking about this stuff? ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > > > > > > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > > > > > > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > > > > > > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Silly. > > > > > > > > > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > > > > > > > > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...and so are you........ > > > > > > Yes, and so am I. > > > > > > I have nothing to fear anymore, nothing to worry about. > > > > > > > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out > there.......in Evetythingsville. > > > > > > Yes, even that. I can still deal with " everything " , without having to hold it in mind all the time. Without having to imagine that it has a separate existence apart from me. > > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > toombaru > > Hello. > > There is no " it " to be severed. That is why it can't sever itself. > > Be clear on this, and that clarity is the severing. > > The severing of nothing. > > Aborting the child of a barren woman. > > A laugh. a theft of an old zen saying. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me, wordlessly. > > The unnoticed noticer? > > The uncommented upon, that has never commented. > > Release from releasing. > > Always still. > > All ways. > > Now. NOW there you go again! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. > > Take a look at the original message above, and tell me where I used the word " nothing " . > > I didn't say nothing happens. I said no loss occurs... nothing real is affected. > > > Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you > and will despear with your death. That is nothing? > > I am not born. That's just a statement of fact. I am unborn. congratulations to your unmother and unfather. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > > > > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you and will despear with your death. That is nothing? > > > > > > it is the loss of the child of a barren woman. > > The loss of a belief, more or less. Nisargadatta put it this way -- > > " ...my Guru made me see that birth and death are mere ideas -- birth is merely the idea: 'I have a body'. And death -- 'I have lost my body'. " Niz lied. his guru didn't make him see or do anything. jesus h. christ! ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > > > > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > > > > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > > > > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > > > > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Silly. > > > > > > > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > > > > > > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...and so are you........ > > > > > > > > > > > > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out there.......in Evetythingsville. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > and so are you? > > > > so nyah, nyah, nyah? > > > > sheesh. > > Toomie seems to enjoy setting up houses of cards, then knocking them down. Not sure he's aware he's doing it, tho. that's the history of the world and everyone and everything in it. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > it is aware. > > > > it is awake. > > > > : D > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > toombaru it is not an experience of any nature or degree. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > > > > > It has not returned. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > > > and night? > > > I can not. > > > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > > > -geo- > > > > > > This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of > > > meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply? > > > Do you mind talking about it? > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > I have talked about several times on list so will give an abbreviated version: > > > > I was at a Las Vegas trade show and accidentally took one of my wife's medications. > > > > For some time, I had known intellectually that things in themselves had no existential reality. > > > > I knew that there was no such " thing " as a mountain, a river or the state of Texas. > > > > I had been thinking about that when I went to bed but as the medication took effect, my mind became somewhat garbled and the thought entered that " if things had no reality.....what does that say about the holder of things...namely me " . > > > > > > I was gripped by the most intense panic that I had ever experienced. > > (I had lived for years with acute panic attacks) > > > > The mind absolutely balked and refused to go any further. > > > > After a protracted life and death struggle.......I thought: > > > > " You little chicken shit.......all these years you have sought this confrontation........what if it never returns? " > > > > And I entered the Question. > > > > > > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > well golly.. > > who's there talking about this stuff? > > .b b.b. > Who sat in that little smokey room and coughed out those words? Who sat on that table in his diapers with his eyes half closed. Who plunked his self under a tree until he evaporated. Well.......that's me baaaaaaaabe. That's me you'rrrrrrre talkin toooooo........babe. toombaruji Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > > > > > > > it is aware. > > > > > > > > > > it is awake. > > > > > > > > > > : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Who or what is the experiencer? > > > > > > > > > > > The gap between the experiencer and the experienced closes and one becomes the experiencing.........experiencing itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to experience anything any more than a thought is. > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. > > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self. there is no self to realize. ..b b.b. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Phil " <souldreamone@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is aware. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is awake. > > > > > > > > > > > > : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Who or what is the experiencer? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gap between the experiencer and the experienced closes and one becomes the experiencing.........experiencing itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > **Whoa! That almost sounds like something that could really happen, at least until you look at it. Of course, in the largest context there's only one 'thing' so we can get away with all sorts of nonsense and say things like I am my big toenail, but really, experience, form is an expression of Self; a projection of Self. A projection of Self is not in a position to experience anything any more than a thought is. > > > > That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an experiencer. > > > > Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The " ultimate experience " is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has little to do with Self. > > > there is no self to realize. > > .b b.b. > ......and no self to do it. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > > > > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > > > > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > > > > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > > > > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > > > > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > > > > > > > It has not returned. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > > > > and night? > > > > I can not. > > > > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of > > > > meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply? > > > > Do you mind talking about it? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have talked about several times on list so will give an abbreviated version: > > > > > > I was at a Las Vegas trade show and accidentally took one of my wife's medications. > > > > > > For some time, I had known intellectually that things in themselves had no existential reality. > > > > > > I knew that there was no such " thing " as a mountain, a river or the state of Texas. > > > > > > I had been thinking about that when I went to bed but as the medication took effect, my mind became somewhat garbled and the thought entered that " if things had no reality.....what does that say about the holder of things...namely me " . > > > > > > > > > I was gripped by the most intense panic that I had ever experienced. > > > (I had lived for years with acute panic attacks) > > > > > > The mind absolutely balked and refused to go any further. > > > > > > After a protracted life and death struggle.......I thought: > > > > > > " You little chicken shit.......all these years you have sought this confrontation........what if it never returns? " > > > > > > And I entered the Question. > > > > > > > > > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > well golly.. > > > > who's there talking about this stuff? > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > Who sat in that little smokey room and coughed out those words? > Who sat on that table in his diapers with his eyes half closed. > Who plunked his self under a tree until he evaporated. > > > Well.......that's me baaaaaaaabe. > > That's me you'rrrrrrre talkin toooooo........babe. > toombaruji well you should have just said so. i'm picking up a few of us on my magic carpet later on.. we're flying to the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. if you get finished with slumdog..(good flick too) let me know.. i'll fly over and down and pick you up. ..b bobji baba Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > > > > > > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > > > > > > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > > > > > > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated. > > > > > > > > > > It has not returned. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day > > > > > and night? > > > > > I can not. > > > > > Will you accept me as temporary disciple? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of > > > > > meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply? > > > > > Do you mind talking about it? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have talked about several times on list so will give an abbreviated version: > > > > > > > > I was at a Las Vegas trade show and accidentally took one of my wife's medications. > > > > > > > > For some time, I had known intellectually that things in themselves had no existential reality. > > > > > > > > I knew that there was no such " thing " as a mountain, a river or the state of Texas. > > > > > > > > I had been thinking about that when I went to bed but as the medication took effect, my mind became somewhat garbled and the thought entered that " if things had no reality.....what does that say about the holder of things...namely me " . > > > > > > > > > > > > I was gripped by the most intense panic that I had ever experienced. > > > > (I had lived for years with acute panic attacks) > > > > > > > > The mind absolutely balked and refused to go any further. > > > > > > > > After a protracted life and death struggle.......I thought: > > > > > > > > " You little chicken shit.......all these years you have sought this confrontation........what if it never returns? " > > > > > > > > And I entered the Question. > > > > > > > > > > > > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > well golly.. > > > > > > who's there talking about this stuff? > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > > > > > > Who sat in that little smokey room and coughed out those words? > > Who sat on that table in his diapers with his eyes half closed. > > Who plunked his self under a tree until he evaporated. > > > > > > Well.......that's me baaaaaaaabe. > > > > That's me you'rrrrrrre talkin toooooo........babe. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaruji > > > > > well you should have just said so. > > i'm picking up a few of us on my magic carpet later on.. > > we're flying to the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. > > if you get finished with slumdog..(good flick too) > > let me know.. > > i'll fly over and down and pick you up. > > .b bobji baba > That would be grand. Buddy....Ritchie.....and the Big Bopper. ....and that girl in high school with the cute little turned up nose. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > it was never " there'. > > the " catharsis " is as illusory as the nonexistent self. > > nothing changes. > > nothing's gone..nothing returns. > > .b b.b. nothing from nothing leaves nothing. ho hum. ..d .d .d Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
