Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its > > > thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned. > > > > All that needs to be, is for one to (not) be here now. > > > > What happened in the past, and what may happen in the future, are of no relevance. > > > > From here, awakening means that whether one awakened, or whether one *will* awaken is irrelevant. > > > > Continuity is an illusion of memory. One cannot have a past existence, nor a future existence. > > > > I am now. > > > > > > > ...even the now slips over the edge...... True, because there's no past or future to compare it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 - toombaru2006 Nisargadatta Monday, May 25, 2009 7:18 PM Re: Thornless Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > toombaru2006 > Nisargadatta > Monday, May 25, 2009 5:54 PM > Re: Thornless > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ? > > -geo- > > > > Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. > > I > > dont even know if that is possible or not. > > I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often > > -geo- > > > > LOL > > It doesn't disappear per se. > > It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness. > > Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the in > coming > data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside. > > There is no human shaped phantom standing at the door. > > Impressions just bounces around in a hall of mirrors until their energy is > depleted. > > They leave no residue behind...(there doesn't seem to be a place where > they > can stick).........and all perceptual data coming in is untainted by past > associations. > > Everything sees to be freshly emerging from a most mysterious ground of > being.....and that seems to be who I am. > > Hey......there's a baby deer. > > toombaru > > And that mysterious ground of being you are referring to was born with > your > organism? > -geo- > It is in the organism. The organism is in it. toombaru And when the organsim dies? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > And when the organsim dies? > -geo- If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > -geo- > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. The organism is a pattern of energy. Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > So > > > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Silly. > > > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > ...and so are you........ > > > > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out there.......in Evetythingsville. > > > > > toombaru and so are you? so nyah, nyah, nyah? sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > -geo- > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you and will despear with your death. That is nothing? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > > > > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > > > > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > > > > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > > > > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Silly. > > > > > > > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > > > > > > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...and so are you........ > > > > Yes, and so am I. > > > > I have nothing to fear anymore, nothing to worry about. > > > > > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out > there.......in Evetythingsville. > > > > Yes, even that. I can still deal with " everything " , without having to hold it in mind all the time. Without having to imagine that it has a separate existence apart from me. > > > > > > The me clings to the tiniest thread. > > It can survive on almost nothing. > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand. > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits > > It can lay dormant for very long periods. > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself. > > > toombaru Hello. There is no " it " to be severed. That is why it can't sever itself. Be clear on this, and that clarity is the severing. The severing of nothing. Aborting the child of a barren woman. A laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me, wordlessly. The unnoticed noticer? The uncommented upon, that has never commented. Release from releasing. Always still. All ways. Now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > :-) > > > > > toombaru it is not an experience. it is aware. it is awake. : D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you and will despear with your death. That is nothing? it is the loss of the child of a barren woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Take a look at the original message above, and tell me where I used the word " nothing " . I didn't say nothing happens. I said no loss occurs... nothing real is affected. > Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you > and will despear with your death. That is nothing? I am not born. That's just a statement of fact. I am unborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you and will despear with your death. That is nothing? > > > it is the loss of the child of a barren woman. The loss of a belief, more or less. Nisargadatta put it this way -- " ...my Guru made me see that birth and death are mere ideas -- birth is merely the idea: 'I have a body'. And death -- 'I have lost my body'. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Monday, May 25, 2009 8:59 PM Re: Thornless Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > -geo- > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe > > remains constant. > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die > > with you. > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. > But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with > death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Take a look at the original message above, and tell me where I used the word " nothing " . I didn't say nothing happens. I said no loss occurs... nothing real is affected. > Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you > and > will despear with your death. That is nothing? I am not born. That's just a statement of fact. I am unborn. geo> Tim, I know what you mean. Existence is unborn, but manifestation is born and dies. And that is something. If only the potential ground where to exist...no manifestation...no anything...just absolute emptiness....? ? ? ? No. Manifestation happens. We dont know how this manifestation will manifest after the organism dies....nobady knows... but it might be something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me, wordlessly. > > The unnoticed noticer? > > The uncommented upon, that has never commented. Occasionally thought of here as " the secret self " . In a sense, a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > geo> Tim, I know what you mean. Existence is unborn, but manifestation is > born and dies. And that is something. Manifestation is conceptualized as being born and dying. And that is nothing. I am not " out there " somewhere. I am not one of the dying bodies. I am present now, and will be present at my death. > If only the potential ground where to exist...no manifestation...no > anything...just absolute emptiness....? ? ? ? > No. Manifestation happens. Look around you now. Where is " manifestation " ? I see a bedroom ;-). > We dont know how this manifestation will manifest > after the organism dies....nobady knows... > but it might be something. I certainly hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK > > > > > > > > So > > > > > > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body. > > > > > > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them. > > > > > > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream thorns out with. > > > > > > > > And now you have a thornless dream. > > > > > > > > At least you got that goin for ya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Silly. > > > > > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves. > > > > > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns are gone. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > > > > ...and so are you........ > > > > > > > > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out there.......in Evetythingsville. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > and so are you? > > so nyah, nyah, nyah? > > sheesh. Toomie seems to enjoy setting up houses of cards, then knocking them down. Not sure he's aware he's doing it, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > it is not an experience. > > it is aware. > > it is awake. > > : D > It is the ultimate experience. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > it is aware. > > > > it is awake. > > > > : D > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > toombaru Who or what is the experiencer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > > > it is aware. > > > > > > it is awake. > > > > > > : D > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Who or what is the experiencer? > The gap between the experiencer and the experienced closes and one becomes the experiencing.........experiencing itself. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Geovani " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when the organsim dies? > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > If you really want to know the answer, abandon the question. > > > > > > > > The organism is a pattern of energy. > > > > > > > > Energy changes form, but the total amount of energy in the universe remains constant. > > > > > > > > Therefore, the organism changes form, without any loss occurring. > > > > > > > > Are you really asking what happens when " I " die? > > > > > > > > Simple -- your joys and fears, hopes and dreams, likes and dislikes die with you. > > > > > > > > No loss occurs. Nothing real whatsoever is affected. > > > > > > geo> My question is in another context - related to toombas experience. But even out of that particular context to say that nothing happens with death is the same as saying that nothing happenes with being born. Totaly conceptual statement. Everything you know was born with you and will despear with your death. That is nothing? > > > > > > it is the loss of the child of a barren woman. > > The loss of a belief, more or less. Nisargadatta put it this way -- > > " ...my Guru made me see that birth and death are mere ideas -- birth is merely the idea: 'I have a body'. And death -- 'I have lost my body'. " Yes, that fits. The human being is an ideational format for experience. The body-mind serves as focus for that format. Registered sensations, memories collect around that imagined location. Death is the loss of that idea that allowed memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. -- D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me, wordlessly. > > > > The unnoticed noticer? > > > > The uncommented upon, that has never commented. > > Occasionally thought of here as " the secret self " . In a sense, a child. Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed through different experiencers. > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > it is not an experience. > > > > it is aware. > > > > it is awake. > > > > : D > > > > > > > It is the ultimate experience. > > > > > > toombaru the ultimate experience? an oxymoron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 In a message dated 5/25/2009 10:34:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, fewtch writes: Nisargadatta , "Phil" <souldreamone wrote:>> That which is expressing is that which is experiencing it's own expression, and so all of experience is the experience of an expression, not the expressor. There is no experience of Self because there is nothing that can get far enough away from Self to be an > experiencer. Very well said.> Self must be realized. It is not an experience and leaves no tracks in the mind. Self is not an object of perception. The "ultimate experience" is just the result of your drug of choice, but it has > little to do with Self.Careful using the word "self" around Toomie... he's allergic to it, and the reaction is not pretty ;-). ***Well, i think he's just got himself wrapped up in a mentally created paradox because he can't let go of the person yet as having some kind of reality. Not sure, but it looks like it. We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Yes, that fits. > > The human being is an ideational format for experience. > > The body-mind serves as focus for that format. > > Registered sensations, memories collect around that imagined location. > > Death is the loss of that idea that allowed memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. > > -- D. Perhaps " idea " isn't the right term. Ideas are learned, and learning requires the " idea " that allows memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. We could, of course, say that it's all circular. There isn't a " first cause " called birth. Nothing suddenly came into existence out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Yes, that fits. > > > > The human being is an ideational format for experience. > > > > The body-mind serves as focus for that format. > > > > Registered sensations, memories collect around that imagined location. > > > > Death is the loss of that idea that allowed memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. > > > > -- D. > > Perhaps " idea " isn't the right term. Ideas are learned, and learning requires the " idea " that allows memories to be organized to construct a temporary sense of time and experience. > > We could, of course, say that it's all circular. There isn't a " first cause " called birth. Nothing suddenly came into existence out of nowhere. It's imagined. The observer separate from the observed is imagined. Time and space are relative, and relative to the observer. One moment of experience, that can be experienced, that can be registered, requires a previous moment and next moment. The format of registered experience is memory. Science calls the inherited format of memory the " gene. " Call it what you will, gene, idea, format. It extends ad infinitum into the past and the endlessly imagined future. And is imaginary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.