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OK

 

So

 

You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

 

So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

 

And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream

thorns out with.

 

And now you have a thornless dream.

 

At least you got that goin for ya.

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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toombaru2006

Nisargadatta

Monday, May 25, 2009 4:37 PM

Thornless

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK

 

So

 

You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

 

So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

 

And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream

thorns out with.

 

And now you have a thornless dream.

 

At least you got that goin for ya.

 

toombaru

 

There is last thorn of a totaly different material. It is the ground of the

potentiality of all possibilities. If you take light as a physical metaphor

that is absolute darkness.But absolute darkness still IS.

-geo-

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Monday, May 25, 2009 4:37 PM

> Thornless

>

OK

>

> So

>

> You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

>

> So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

>

> And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream

> thorns out with.

>

> And now you have a thornless dream.

>

> At least you got that goin for ya.

>

> toombaru

>

> There is last thorn of a totaly different material. It is the ground of the

> potentiality of all possibilities. If you take light as a physical metaphor

> that is absolute darkness.But absolute darkness still IS.

> -geo-

>

 

 

No.

 

 

Thorns exist only in the dream.

 

 

Anything that you can come up with......any combination of thoughts.......no

matter how wonderful.......will not penetrate through that which exists only as

thought.

 

 

da be a

 

da be a

 

 

that's all folks.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > OK

> >

> > So

> >

> > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

> >

> > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

> >

> > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other dream

thorns out with.

> >

> > And now you have a thornless dream.

> >

> > At least you got that goin for ya.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

>

> Silly.

>

> Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves.

>

> When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns

are gone.

>

> -- Dan

>

 

 

 

....and so are you........

 

 

 

.....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out

there.......in Evetythingsville.

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > OK

> > >

> > > So

> > >

> > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

> > >

> > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

> > >

> > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other

dream thorns out with.

> > >

> > > And now you have a thornless dream.

> > >

> > > At least you got that goin for ya.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > Silly.

> >

> > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves.

> >

> > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns

are gone.

> >

> > -- Dan

> >

>

>

>

> ...and so are you........

 

Yes, and so am I.

 

I have nothing to fear anymore, nothing to worry about.

 

> ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out >

there.......in Evetythingsville.

 

Yes, even that. I can still deal with " everything " , without having to hold it

in mind all the time. Without having to imagine that it has a separate

existence apart from me.

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > OK

> > >

> > > So

> > >

> > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

> > >

> > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

> > >

> > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other

dream thorns out with.

> > >

> > > And now you have a thornless dream.

> > >

> > > At least you got that goin for ya.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > toombaru

> >

> > Silly.

> >

> > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves.

> >

> > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all thorns

are gone.

> >

> > -- Dan

> >

>

>

>

> ...and so are you........

 

Yes, and so am I.

 

I have nothing to fear anymore, nothing to worry about.

 

> ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out >

there.......in Evetythingsville.

 

Yes, even that. I can still deal with " everything " , without having to hold it

in mind all the time. Without having to imagine that it has a separate

existence apart from me.

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Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > OK

> > > >

> > > > So

> > > >

> > > > You have these dream thorns stuck in your dream body.

> > > >

> > > > So......you take some dream thorns and remove them.

> > > >

> > > > And then you toss out the dream thorn that you used to take the other

dream thorns out with.

> > > >

> > > > And now you have a thornless dream.

> > > >

> > > > At least you got that goin for ya.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > toombaru

> > >

> > > Silly.

> > >

> > > Attaching to a dream, is the thorn that dissolves.

> > >

> > > When there is neither dream nor something else other than dream, all

thorns are gone.

> > >

> > > -- Dan

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ...and so are you........

>

> Yes, and so am I.

>

> I have nothing to fear anymore, nothing to worry about.

>

> > ....even that really really big you that you imagine exists.....out >

there.......in Evetythingsville.

>

> Yes, even that. I can still deal with " everything " , without having to hold it

in mind all the time. Without having to imagine that it has a separate

existence apart from me.

>

 

 

 

The me clings to the tiniest thread.

 

It can survive on almost nothing.

 

On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

 

In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

 

It can lay dormant for very long periods.

 

It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

 

 

toombaru

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The me clings to the tiniest thread.It can survive on almost nothing.On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.In freezing nights it bundles up and waitsIt can lay dormant for very long periods.It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.toombaruAre you talking of first hand "experience"?

-geo-

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The me clings to the tiniest thread.It can survive on almost nothing.On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.In freezing nights it bundles up and waitsIt can lay dormant for very long periods.It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.toombaruAre you talking of first hand "experience"?

-geo-

 

Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. I dont even know if that is possible or not.

I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often

-geo-

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> > The me clings to the tiniest thread.

> >

> > It can survive on almost nothing.

> >

> > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

> >

> > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

> >

> > It can lay dormant for very long periods.

> >

> > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> > -geo-

> >

>

>

>

> There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

>

> It has not returned.

>

>

>

>

>

> toombaru

 

I can see clearly how it all has to do with words. In particular, the words

" me " and " you " .

 

Quite often, I address myself as " you " ... like, " you're going to the store

today, aren't you " ? When I do that, I objectify myself... but I'm not an

object.

 

When I think of my body, I'm thinking of an object. I can't be a thought! I

can't be an object, either.

 

When I realize I'm not an object, I also realize there are no objects or

" things " . The " me " is a " thing " ... a body and a history, something I can look

at or examine.

 

Therefore, I am not that.

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> The me clings to the tiniest thread.

>

> It can survive on almost nothing.

>

> On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

>

> In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

>

> It can lay dormant for very long periods.

>

> It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> -geo-

>

 

There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

 

It has not returned.

 

toombaru

 

Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day

and night?

I can not.

Will you accept me as temporary disciple?

-geo-

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>

> The me clings to the tiniest thread.

>

> It can survive on almost nothing.

>

> On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

>

> In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

>

> It can lay dormant for very long periods.

>

> It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> -geo-

>

 

There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

 

It has not returned.

 

toombaru

 

Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day

and night?

I can not.

Will you accept me as temporary disciple?

-geo-

 

This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of

meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply?

Do you mind talking about it?

-geo-

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

>

>

> The me clings to the tiniest thread.

>

> It can survive on almost nothing.

>

> On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

>

> In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

>

> It can lay dormant for very long periods.

>

> It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> -geo-

>

> Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. I

dont even know if that is possible or not.

> I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often

> -geo-

>

 

 

 

LOL

 

 

 

It doesn't disappear per se.

 

It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

 

Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the in coming

data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

 

There is no human shaped phantom standing at the door.

 

Impressions just bounces around in a hall of mirrors until their energy is

depleted.

 

They leave no residue behind...(there doesn't seem to be a place where they can

stick).........and all perceptual data coming in is untainted by past

associations.

 

Everything sees to be freshly emerging from a most mysterious ground of

being.....and that seems to be who I am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey......there's a baby deer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > > The me clings to the tiniest thread.

> > >

> > > It can survive on almost nothing.

> > >

> > > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

> > >

> > > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

> > >

> > > It can lay dormant for very long periods.

> > >

> > > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

> > >

> > > toombaru

> > >

> > > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> > > -geo-

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

> >

> > It has not returned.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > toombaru

>

> I can see clearly how it all has to do with words. In particular, the words

" me " and " you " .

>

> Quite often, I address myself as " you " ... like, " you're going to the store

today, aren't you " ? When I do that, I objectify myself... but I'm not an

object.

>

> When I think of my body, I'm thinking of an object. I can't be a thought! I

can't be an object, either.

>

> When I realize I'm not an object, I also realize there are no objects or

" things " . The " me " is a " thing " ... a body and a history, something I can look

at or examine.

>

> Therefore, I am not that.

>

 

 

 

Hey......That could be the name of your book.

 

 

:-)

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> It doesn't disappear per se.

>

> It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

>

> Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the > in coming

data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

 

I find that the entity only comes in when I bounce myself off " you " .

 

And yet... I also find that " you " are not the only object. " Me " is an object

too, because I can refer to an " it " (body/brain) with a history.

 

Me and you are both objects. We are both outside of reality!

 

What's real is " here " , with me. I use the word " me " , but I don't mean me in the

sense of me as a body with a history.

 

I mean " me " as awareness. The word doesn't matter, as " awareness " is only an

indicator. There is no word " awareness " in awareness.

 

I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me,

wordlessly.

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> It doesn't disappear per se.

>

> It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

>

> Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the > in coming

data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

 

I find that the entity only comes in when I bounce myself off " you " .

 

And yet... I also find that " you " are not the only object. " Me " is an object

too, because I can refer to an " it " (body/brain) with a history.

 

Me and you are both objects. We are both outside of reality!

 

What's real is " here " , with me. I use the word " me " , but I don't mean me in the

sense of me as a body with a history.

 

I mean " me " as awareness. The word doesn't matter, as " awareness " is only an

indicator. There is no word " awareness " in awareness.

 

I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me,

wordlessly.

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> > The me clings to the tiniest thread.

> >

> > It can survive on almost nothing.

> >

> > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

> >

> > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

> >

> > It can lay dormant for very long periods.

> >

> > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> > -geo-

> >

>

> There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

>

> It has not returned.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day

> and night?

> I can not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can remember how solid it felt.

I can remember how frightened it was and how ofter it got its feeling hurt.

I remember its loneliness......and its rage.

I remember its struggles to get what it imagined to be its own enlightenment.

I remember it thinking that it was at least cutting the distance in half.

And I remember when all of that stopped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Will you accept me as temporary disciple?

> -geo-

>

 

 

 

 

 

Aren't all disciples temporary?

 

 

 

(It is you that tease these words form me.......they emerge....weave a

tapestry......I read them.....and they fill me up.......and I thank you for

that.)

 

 

 

 

 

love

 

 

 

 

toombaru

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> > >

> > It doesn't disappear per se.

> >

> > It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

> >

> > Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the > in

coming data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

>

> I find that the entity only comes in when I bounce myself off " you " .

>

> And yet... I also find that " you " are not the only object. " Me " is an object

too, because I can refer to an " it " (body/brain) with a history.

>

> Me and you are both objects. We are both outside of reality!

>

> What's real is " here " , with me. I use the word " me " , but I don't mean me in

the sense of me as a body with a history.

>

> I mean " me " as awareness. The word doesn't matter, as " awareness " is only an

indicator. There is no word " awareness " in awareness.

>

> I am empty. Empty of both " you " and " me " . I am what is noticing me,

wordlessly.

>

 

 

 

I would imagine that it is the same experience......trying to be expressed

through different experiencers.

 

:-)

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

>

> > Will you accept me as temporary disciple?

> > -geo-

> >

 

Whatever " you " was being referred to, the answer is yes.

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toombaru2006

Nisargadatta

Monday, May 25, 2009 5:54 PM

Re: Thornless

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

>

>

> The me clings to the tiniest thread.

>

> It can survive on almost nothing.

>

> On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

>

> In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

>

> It can lay dormant for very long periods.

>

> It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> -geo-

>

> Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. I

> dont even know if that is possible or not.

> I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often

> -geo-

>

 

LOL

 

It doesn't disappear per se.

 

It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

 

Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the in coming

data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

 

There is no human shaped phantom standing at the door.

 

Impressions just bounces around in a hall of mirrors until their energy is

depleted.

 

They leave no residue behind...(there doesn't seem to be a place where they

can stick).........and all perceptual data coming in is untainted by past

associations.

 

Everything sees to be freshly emerging from a most mysterious ground of

being.....and that seems to be who I am.

 

Hey......there's a baby deer.

 

toombaru

 

And that mysterious ground of being you are referring to was born with your

organism?

-geo-

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> And that mysterious ground of being you are referring to was born

> with your

> organism?

> -geo-

 

I can only speak for myself.

 

This 'mysterious' ground of being was born now.

 

Everything else is gone.

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

> >

> > The me clings to the tiniest thread.

> >

> > It can survive on almost nothing.

> >

> > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

> >

> > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

> >

> > It can lay dormant for very long periods.

> >

> > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> > -geo-

> >

>

> There was a catharsis in which the sense of self evaporated.

>

> It has not returned.

>

> toombaru

>

> Are able to say that you are always without it. All the time through the day

> and night?

> I can not.

> Will you accept me as temporary disciple?

> -geo-

>

> This episode you had....it came out of the blue, or you where sort of

> meditating, or perhaps having some insight, or investigating deeply?

> Do you mind talking about it?

> -geo-

>

 

 

I have talked about several times on list so will give an abbreviated version:

 

I was at a Las Vegas trade show and accidentally took one of my wife's

medications.

 

For some time, I had known intellectually that things in themselves had no

existential reality.

 

I knew that there was no such " thing " as a mountain, a river or the state of

Texas.

 

I had been thinking about that when I went to bed but as the medication took

effect, my mind became somewhat garbled and the thought entered that " if things

had no reality.....what does that say about the holder of things...namely me " .

 

 

I was gripped by the most intense panic that I had ever experienced.

(I had lived for years with acute panic attacks)

 

The mind absolutely balked and refused to go any further.

 

After a protracted life and death struggle.......I thought:

 

" You little chicken shit.......all these years you have sought this

confrontation........what if it never returns? "

 

And I entered the Question.

 

 

I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its thing....I wasn't

there.......and I haven't returned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote:

>

> I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its

> thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned.

 

All that needs to be, is for one to (not) be here now.

 

What happened in the past, and what may happen in the future, are of no

relevance.

 

From here, awakening means that whether one awakened, or whether one *will*

awaken is irrelevant.

 

Continuity is an illusion of memory. One cannot have a past existence, nor a

future existence.

 

I am now.

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Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote:

>

>

> -

> toombaru2006

> Nisargadatta

> Monday, May 25, 2009 5:54 PM

> Re: Thornless

>

>

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > The me clings to the tiniest thread.

> >

> > It can survive on almost nothing.

> >

> > On hot days.....it burrows deep into the sand.

> >

> > In freezing nights it bundles up and waits

> >

> > It can lay dormant for very long periods.

> >

> > It has to be severed.......but it cannot sever itself.

> >

> > toombaru

> >

> > Are you talking of first hand " experience " ?

> > -geo-

> >

> > Here...there is not the certainty that it has been definitively severed. I

> > dont even know if that is possible or not.

> > I can say that it sticks its head back to life quite often

> > -geo-

> >

>

> LOL

>

> It doesn't disappear per se.

>

> It's more like where is used to be.....is a most pleasant emptiness.

>

> Everything remains pretty much the same as before......but now the in coming

> data doesn't bounce off an entity on the inside.

>

> There is no human shaped phantom standing at the door.

>

> Impressions just bounces around in a hall of mirrors until their energy is

> depleted.

>

> They leave no residue behind...(there doesn't seem to be a place where they

> can stick).........and all perceptual data coming in is untainted by past

> associations.

>

> Everything sees to be freshly emerging from a most mysterious ground of

> being.....and that seems to be who I am.

>

> Hey......there's a baby deer.

>

> toombaru

>

> And that mysterious ground of being you are referring to was born with your

> organism?

> -geo-

>

 

 

It is in the organism.

 

The organism is in it.

 

 

 

toombaru

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Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> wrote:

> >

> > I cannot describe what happened......but when it had done its

> > thing....I wasn't there.......and I haven't returned.

>

> All that needs to be, is for one to (not) be here now.

>

> What happened in the past, and what may happen in the future, are of no

relevance.

>

> From here, awakening means that whether one awakened, or whether one *will*

awaken is irrelevant.

>

> Continuity is an illusion of memory. One cannot have a past existence, nor a

future existence.

>

> I am now.

>

 

 

 

 

....even the now slips over the edge......

 

 

 

 

toombaru

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