Phil Unsubscribed by Jerry from NDS

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> wwoehr writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > time.

> >

> > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> bothered? Please

> > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you just

> talking?

> >

>

> Stop fighting, Phil !

>

> Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then gracefully

> will present you a peaceful mind.

>

> The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around the

> longer it will be caught in.

>

> What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional

> weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more

that

> thought is identified.

>

> Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's

> thoughts is the death of one's identity.

>

> Werner

>

> ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did that

story come

> from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional

steam and

> such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails

and just as

> relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be about

you. Anything I

> can help you with, Werner?

>

.....are you married to each?...

i mean, it look like....

Marc

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:42:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> dennis_travis33 writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , " roberibus111 "

> <Roberibus111@> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/24/2008 9:05:05 A.M. Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > pedsie6@ writes:

> > >

> > > Phil, are you here? Want to discuss

> > > that technique which shoots your foot?

> > >

> > > Pete

> > >

> > > ***Most likely, the answer to both questions is no. You don't

> > understand,

> > > Pete, and I don't expect you to. I expect you to make endless

> > assumptions about

> > > what I want, what I 'm trying to accomplish, what I don't

> > understand, what

> > > I'm afraid of, what my problem is, what's wrong with me, what

I'm

> > trying to

> > > defend, to protect, to avoid, to deny.

> > >

> > > There's one possibility that never occurs to anybody except

> those who

> > > actually know me; that nothing is actually wrong with Phil at

> all.

> > What a radical

> > > thought! You mean it's not about his diaper training or not

being

> > chosen for

> > > the sand lot team? No, it's actually not about anything

except

> what

> > I keep

> > > saying it's about; looking to see what's so.

> > >

> > > I cut my teeth on the old (now defunct) AOL forums. Kinda the

> ghetto

> > of

> > > spirituality, full of love-n-light and a switchblade in the

gut.

> It

> > was a period

> > > of intense ego work for me made all the more intense because I

> > refused to run

> > > from anything, whether it was happening outside me or inside.

> > >

> > > What followed that was several years of running a very special

> forum

> > with a

> > > friend. You never heard of it because just the idea terrified

> almost

> > > everybody, but it was by far the most spiritually successful

forum

> > I've ever

> > > experienced because we stood face to face with this ego

monster

> that

> > stands between

> > > where we are and the life we wanted to live. No love-n-light,

no

> > nondual

> > > pretenses, no bullshit, just humility, courage and trust. We

> helped

> > lots of folks

> > > radically change their lives and sometimes it got very

messy,

> but

> > that place

> > > makes places like this look silly and pointless.

> > >

> > > However, there came a time when it was no longer in my best

> interest

> > to

> > > continue to focus on ego issues with folks when I knew that

there

> > was no ego, and

> > > therefore no issues. I figured these 'spiritually advanced'

forums

> > where you

> > > can't swing a stick without hitting an 'enlightened' dude must

be

> > the place

> > > for me to continue my work. Imagine my surprise when I find

that

> > most of the

> > > folks on these forums hopped, skipped and jumped over the ego

work

> > so that

> > > they could become ego scholars and teacher egos and

enlightened

> egos.

> > >

> > > So, I played the game for a while, trying to get something of

> value

> > out of

> > > the forums, focused on self inquiry and expanding and

> deconstructing

> > my

> > > remaining beliefs, but nobody else was doing this work.

They're

> way

> > too busy trying

> > > to impress and make friends and win the enlightenment game and

> they

> > have no

> > > idea what I'm doing but they know it's bad and that I need to

be

> > learned a

> > > thing or two.

> > >

> > > So tell me, Pete, are you here to learn me a thing or two?

> >

> > so..it's all about you then?

> >

> > same old story.

> >

> > .b b.b.

>

> about who else!?

>

> Marc

>

> ***There ya go. Who else is there? Hehe.

> >

>

that's life....!

what else?!

Marc

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> dennis_travis33 writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard

Time,

> > wwoehr@ writes:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > time.

> > >

> > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> > bothered? Please

> > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you

just

> > talking?

> > >

> >

> > Stop fighting, Phil !

> >

> > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then

gracefully

> > will present you a peaceful mind.

> >

> > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around

the

> > longer it will be caught in.

> >

> > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional

> > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more

> that

> > thought is identified.

> >

> > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's

> > thoughts is the death of one's identity.

> >

> > Werner

> >

> > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did

that

> story come

> > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional

> steam and

> > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails

> and just as

> > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be

about

> you. Anything I

> > can help you with, Werner?

> >

> ....are you married to each?...

>

> i mean, it look like....

>

> Marc

****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave

himself.

> Hehe.

>

maybe he had just a break in/with watching tv for few

moments...answering " you " as from another movie/world...

Marc

Ps : make sure he doesn't get addicted to tv....

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> dennis_travis33 writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard

Time,

> > wwoehr@ writes:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > time.

> > >

> > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> > bothered? Please

> > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you

just

> > talking?

> > >

> >

> > Stop fighting, Phil !

> >

> > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then

gracefully

> > will present you a peaceful mind.

> >

> > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around

the

> > longer it will be caught in.

> >

> > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional

> > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more

> that

> > thought is identified.

> >

> > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's

> > thoughts is the death of one's identity.

> >

> > Werner

> >

> > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did

that

> story come

> > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional

> steam and

> > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails

> and just as

> > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be

about

> you. Anything I

> > can help you with, Werner?

> >

> ....are you married to each?...

>

> i mean, it look like....

>

> Marc

****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave

himself.

> Hehe.

>

Haha, Phil,

Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed.

Wonderful !

You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to carry on

that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his fear

not fully to get respected.

Werner

>

> **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social

networks,

> and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com

> today!

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?

redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp

> %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)

>

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, wwoehr writes:

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:>> > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > dennis_travis33 writes:> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > wwoehr@ writes:> > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > > time.> > > > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm > > bothered? Please > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you just > > talking?> > > > > > > > > Stop fighting, Phil !> > > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then gracefully > > will present you a peaceful mind.> > > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around the > > longer it will be caught in.> > > > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more > that > > thought is identified.> > > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.> > > > Werner> > > > > > > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did that > story come > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional > steam and > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails > and just as > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be about > you. Anything I > > can help you with, Werner?> > > > > > > > > ....are you married to each?...> > i mean, it look like....> > > > Marc> > > > > > > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave himself. > Hehe. > >Haha, Phil,Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed. Wonderful !You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to carry on that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his fear not fully to get respected.:)Werner

****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrote stories 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe. In a moment, I'll say something that will change your story back and you'll say, 'Ohh, I guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.'

The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treat Werner with kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a flattering one. If I say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, the story of Phil is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or just your story of Phil?

That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, and then a few more stories written over here. Notice how they're all different versions, every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really only looking at his own reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really. Mostly he's a blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 7:49:01 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, pedsie6 writes:

Nisargadatta , "Werner Woehr" <wwoehr wrote:>> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > time.> > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm > bothered? Please > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you just > talking?> > > > > Stop fighting, Phil !> > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then gracefully > will present you a peaceful mind.> > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around the > longer it will be caught in.> > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more that > thought is identified.> > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's > thoughts is the death of one's identity.> > WernerP: Right on!In time, Phil, will learn that his memes arenot his. No need to defend a meme, a memenever dies. There are still people whobelieve the Earth is flat.In time, Phil, will learn that here is noneed to defend Phil. No matter how hardhe tries no one will see Phil as he seehimself. Each one that reads what Philwrites understands it different thatPhil does, and have a different imageof Phil. It's impossible to controlwhat people understand, or see. Stop fighting Phil, that's the onlyway to win.>****That's right, everybody will write their own story, just as you have, and it's so easy to believe what we write in spite of the absence of any research material. It can be very useful to notice how this occurs.

Somebody writes a story about fighting and emotional steam, then somebody else comes along and picks up the story and says "right on!", then adds another chapter about how Phil will learn someday about his memes. As long as a little bit of energy is fed to the writers, the story will continue to grow and soon I'll have folks recommending good therapists in my area and wishing me good luck with my challenges. Hehe.

It's important because this is what we refer to as illusion, the stories we make up ABOUT what we perceive, not the perception itself. There is no problem with the perception of what is. The stories are all pervasive and quickly dominate our view of the world and of life. What is life without the stories about life? First you might find that it's empty, which is why you write the stories, then you might find that it's full in the absence of those stories. Are you willing to see what life is about in the absence of the stories?

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > time.

> >

> > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> bothered? Please

> > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you just

> talking?

> >

>

> Stop fighting, Phil !

>

> Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then gracefully

> will present you a peaceful mind.

>

> The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around the

> longer it will be caught in.

>

> What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional

> weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more that

> thought is identified.

>

> Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's

> thoughts is the death of one's identity.

>

> Werner

P: Right on!

In time, Phil, will learn that his memes are

not his. No need to defend a meme, a meme

never dies. There are still people who

believe the Earth is flat.

In time, Phil, will learn that here is no

need to defend Phil. No matter how hard

he tries no one will see Phil as he see

himself. Each one that reads what Phil

writes understands it different that

Phil does, and have a different image

of Phil. It's impossible to control

what people understand, or see.

Stop fighting Phil, that's the only

way to win.

>

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 12:41:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tyga writes:

Well, so long as we are all making up stories, then I might as well make up a story too.I was attempting to make this point a little while back, that it is somewhat fruitless to focus on someone's story with the idea that the story is illusory, and then therefore somehow invalid.We all already know that.Taking that approach, the reason for sitting around this place becomes one of undermining everyone's attempts at stories and dilute them down to nothingness. The only real purpose here then becomes one of 'out doing each others nothingness dilution'.I don't really care either way though, everyone can do whatever they desire, I just wanted to point that out. Thanks for listening to my story. :)tyga

***Oh, no, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not interested in deconstructing perception itself. What would be the point? I'm saying in the context in which there is a Phil perceiver and a Tyga perciever and a Niz forum and posts and words and such, that's what is. Your ego mind didn't write a story about there being a Phil who posts on the Niz forum. Your ego mind doesn't have anything to do with that and can't undo it or somehow see it as an illusion. When you 'Awaken' you'll still see me posting, so how are you going to explain it then? There are larger contexts in which it's all unfolding as Awareness in the form of perception itself, but who cares, really?

What I'm talking about is what you've been witnessing the last couple of days as folks write stories ABOUT Phil's posts. They're not talking about what words they perceive and the color of the font, they're talking about their stories about what Phil is thinking, feeling, needing, what he doesn't understand, what he needs to understand, etc. THESE are the stories. THAT'S the illusion. See the difference?

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:33:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Roberibus111 writes:

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:>> > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > wwoehr writes:> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > dennis_travis33@ writes:> > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard > Time, > > > wwoehr@ writes:> > > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > > > time.> > > > > > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm > > > bothered? Please > > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you > just > > > talking?> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop fighting, Phil !> > > > > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then > gracefully > > > will present you a peaceful mind.> > > > > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around > the > > > longer it will be caught in.> > > > > > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional > > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more > > that > > > thought is identified.> > > > > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's > > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.> > > > > > Werner> > > > > > > > > > > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did > that > > story come > > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional > > steam and > > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails > > and just as > > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be > about > > you. Anything I > > > can help you with, Werner?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....are you married to each?...> > > > i mean, it look like....> > > > > > > > Marc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave > himself. > > Hehe. > > > >> > > Haha, Phil,> > Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed. > Wonderful !> > You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to carry on > that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his fear > not fully to get respected.> > > > Werner> > > > > ****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrotestories > 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe.In a moment, > I'll say something that will change your story back and you'll say,'Ohh, I > guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.' > > The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treatWerner with > kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a flatteringone. If I > say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, thestory of Phil > is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or justyour story > of Phil?> > That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, andthen a few > more stories written over here. Notice how they're all differentversions, > every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really onlylooking at his own > reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really. Mostlyhe's a > blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.ahem.nobody gives a shit about who is or is not the 'real' phil.everybody gets quite enough of the unreal phil as it is.you enjoy everything & anything that has to do with you.and you never shut up about it.glad it is that there is no real you at all.certain it is that you will tell us all how that effects you.you believe that that should be important to everyone.it's actually not though Phil..b b.b.

****Another interesting story. Are you sure it isn't about memes and fighting and feeling sorry for myself? One story is that I won't talk about me and it's always about everybody else. I guess you don't believe in those stories, huh? I'll bet you do believe in your story, don't you?

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:10:42 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, tyga writes:

souldreamone wrote:> > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 12:41:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > tyga writes:>> Well, so long as we are all making up stories, then I might as> well make> up a story too.>> I was attempting to make this point a little while back, that it is> somewhat fruitless to focus on someone's story with the idea that the> story is illusory, and then therefore somehow invalid.>> We all already know that.>> Taking that approach, the reason for sitting around this place> becomes> one of undermining everyone's attempts at stories and dilute them> down> to nothingness. The only real purpose here then becomes one of 'out> doing each others nothingness dilution'.>> I don't really care either way though, everyone can do whatever they> desire, I just wanted to point that out. Thanks for listening to my> story. >>> tyga>> > ***Oh, no, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not interested in> deconstructing perception itself. What would be the point? I'm> saying in the context in which there is a Phil perceiver and a> Tyga perciever and a Niz forum and posts and words and such,> that's what is. Your ego mind didn't write a story about there> being a Phil who posts on the Niz forum. Your ego mind doesn't> have anything to do with that and can't undo it or somehow see it> as an illusion. When you 'Awaken' you'll still see me posting, so> how are you going to explain it then? There are larger contexts in> which it's all unfolding as Awareness in the form of perception> itself, but who cares, really?> > What I'm talking about is what you've been witnessing the last> couple of days as folks write stories ABOUT Phil's posts. They're> not talking about what words they perceive and the color of the> font, they're talking about their stories about what Phil is> thinking, feeling, needing, what he doesn't understand, what he> needs to understand, etc. THESE are the stories. THAT'S the> illusion. See the difference?> >>>>> ------> **No, sorry, I didn't mean to point to you in particular at all, I was only referring to the list in general. But now that you mention it. :)What would be the point in deconstructing perception indeed, that is my point, it becomes pointless. I've tried to make that point a few times, and ironically, I get beaten down with more of the same nothingness dilution competition.How am I going to explain it? I don't explain it, I simply experience it. Making an explanation is ok though, because that makes things interesting, other wise we would have noting to talk about and there would be NO point in even being here discussing stuff. I tried to make this point a while ago that the only reason for being here is for entertainment, for the experience. That only ended in me being told I was wrong and that I ought to listen rather than talking, more of the same pointless nothingness disillusioning.This is all illusion (delusion?), this email communication, I can't even be certain that Phill even exists. Have I met Phil? No, as far as I know Phil IS black font on a white background, some text that appears on my computer screen from time to time, in some place or another. I construct Phil in my mind from what I see presented before me in text and presume that I know Phil based on my own history and prejudices. That's like seeing a childs crayon drawing of a house and then assuming that is what real houses look like. It's absurd to presume to know Phil. I couldn't even know Phil if I lived with Phil and spent 24 hours a day with Phil.It is all illusion, we might as well just get on with enjoy the experience and forget about presuming we know anything at all. Pretending to know is what we do here, nothing more, in my opinion.The Phil I experience here is the Phil I invent.tygaWell, there ya go. That's a good start.

Beyond that, what I'm suggesting is that your perception that Phil posts on the forum is not problematic for you in any context, illusion or not, and possibly what we're interested in is that which seems to cause us problems, so we can forget about trying to determine if the poster is real or if the words are real and so on. Again, who cares. That's your experience and it's happening in spite of you.

What can be problematic is what we think we know ABOUT what we perceive. I'm saying that's the bugaboo. One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Roberibus111 writes:

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:>> > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:33:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > Roberibus111 writes:> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > wwoehr@ writes:> > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific StandardTime, > > > dennis_travis33@ writes:> > > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard > > Time, > > > > wwoehr@ writes:> > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:> > > > > time.> > > > > > > > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm > > > > bothered? Please > > > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you > > just > > > > talking?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop fighting, Phil !> > > > > > > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then > > gracefully > > > > will present you a peaceful mind.> > > > > > > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around > > the > > > > longer it will be caught in.> > > > > > > > What we call identification is nothing else then theemotional > > > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight themore > > > that > > > > thought is identified.> > > > > > > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's > > > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.> > > > > > > > Werner> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did > > that > > > story come > > > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting andemotional > > > steam and > > > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between sillyemails > > > and just as > > > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be > > about > > > you. Anything I > > > > can help you with, Werner?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....are you married to each?...> > > > > > i mean, it look like....> > > > > > > > > > > > Marc> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave > > himself. > > > Hehe. > > > > > >> > > > > > Haha, Phil,> > > > Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed. > > Wonderful !> > > > You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to carry on > > that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by hisfear > > not fully to get respected.> > > > > > > > Werner> > > > > > > > > > ****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrote> stories > > 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe.> In a moment, > > I'll say something that will change your story back and you'll say,> 'Ohh, I > > guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.' > > > > The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treat> Werner with > > kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a flattering> one. If I > > say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, the> story of Phil > > is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or just> your story > > of Phil?> > > > That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, and> then a few > > more stories written over here. Notice how they're all different> versions, > > every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really only> looking at his own > > reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really. Mostly> he's a > > blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.> > > > > ahem.> > nobody gives a shit about who is or is not the 'real' phil.> > everybody gets quite enough of the unreal phil as it is.> > you enjoy everything & anything that has to do with you.> > and you never shut up about it.> > glad it is that there is no real you at all.> > certain it is that you will tell us all how that effects you.> > you believe that that should be important to everyone.> > it's actually not though Phil.> > .b b.b.> > > > > > > > > ****Another interesting story. Are you sure it isn't about memes and > fighting and feeling sorry for myself? One story is that I won'ttalk about me and > it's always about everybody else. I guess you don't believe inthose stories, > huh? I'll bet you do believe in your story, don't you? i don't believe in anything or anyone.i'll leave that self deluded believing crap to you.you seem to have unshakeable faith in your own nonsense.bully for you Phil.it doesn't matter.it's just more stuff and such.LOL!.b b.b.

****You believe what you say or you wouldn't have any reason to say it. To believe and then pretend you don't is story telling with a dash of unconscious denial.

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

In a message dated 11/25/2008 3:05:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Roberibus111 writes:

> > ****You believe what you say or you wouldn't have any reason to sayit. To > believe and then pretend you don't is story telling with a dash ofunconscious > denial.i don't have any reason for saying what i do.unconscious denial is a fairy tale.grow up..b b.b.

***Denial that there's such a thing as denial. Now there's a new level of denial. That's scary, Bobo.

One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

November 25, 2008

souldreamone wrote:

>

> ****That's right, everybody will write their own story, just as

> you have, and it's so easy to believe what we write in spite of

> the absence of any research material. It can be very useful to

> notice how this occurs.

>

> Somebody writes a story about fighting and emotional steam, then

> somebody else comes along and picks up the story and says " right

> on! " , then adds another chapter about how Phil will learn someday

> about his memes. As long as a little bit of energy is fed to the

> writers, the story will continue to grow and soon I'll have folks

> recommending good therapists in my area and wishing me good luck

> with my challenges. Hehe.

>

> It's important because this is what we refer to as illusion, the

> stories we make up ABOUT what we perceive, not the perception

> itself. There is no problem with the perception of what is. The

> stories are all pervasive and quickly dominate our view of the

> world and of life. What is life without the stories about life?

> First you might find that it's empty, which is why you write the

> stories, then you might find that it's full in the absence of

> those stories. Are you willing to see what life is about in the

> absence of the stories?

------

> **

Well, so long as we are all making up stories, then I might as well make

up a story too.

I was attempting to make this point a little while back, that it is

somewhat fruitless to focus on someone's story with the idea that the

story is illusory, and then therefore somehow invalid.

We all already know that.

Taking that approach, the reason for sitting around this place becomes

one of undermining everyone's attempts at stories and dilute them down

to nothingness. The only real purpose here then becomes one of 'out

doing each others nothingness dilution'.

I don't really care either way though, everyone can do whatever they

desire, I just wanted to point that out. Thanks for listening to my

story.

tyga

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> wwoehr writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> > dennis_travis33@ writes:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > wwoehr@ writes:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > > time.

> > > >

> > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> > > bothered? Please

> > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you

> just

> > > talking?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Stop fighting, Phil !

> > >

> > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then

> gracefully

> > > will present you a peaceful mind.

> > >

> > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling around

> the

> > > longer it will be caught in.

> > >

> > > What we call identification is nothing else then the emotional

> > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the more

> > that

> > > thought is identified.

> > >

> > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of one's

> > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.

> > >

> > > Werner

> > >

> > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did

> that

> > story come

> > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and emotional

> > steam and

> > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly emails

> > and just as

> > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be

> about

> > you. Anything I

> > > can help you with, Werner?

> > >

> > ....are you married to each?...

> >

> > i mean, it look like....

> >

> > Marc

> >

> > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to behave

> himself.

> > Hehe.

> >

>

> Haha, Phil,

>

> Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed.

> Wonderful !

>

> You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to carry on

> that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his fear

> not fully to get respected.

>

> Werner

>

> ****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrote

stories

> 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe.

In a moment,

> I'll say something that will change your story back and you'll say,

'Ohh, I

> guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.'

>

> The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treat

Werner with

> kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a flattering

one. If I

> say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, the

story of Phil

> is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or just

your story

> of Phil?

>

> That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, and

then a few

> more stories written over here. Notice how they're all different

versions,

> every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really only

looking at his own

> reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really. Mostly

he's a

> blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.

ahem.

nobody gives a shit about who is or is not the 'real' phil.

everybody gets quite enough of the unreal phil as it is.

you enjoy everything & anything that has to do with you.

and you never shut up about it.

glad it is that there is no real you at all.

certain it is that you will tell us all how that effects you.

you believe that that should be important to everyone.

it's actually not though Phil.

..b b.b.

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , tyga <tyga wrote:

>

> souldreamone wrote:

> >

> > ****That's right, everybody will write their own story, just as

> > you have, and it's so easy to believe what we write in spite of

> > the absence of any research material. It can be very useful to

> > notice how this occurs.

> >

> > Somebody writes a story about fighting and emotional steam, then

> > somebody else comes along and picks up the story and says " right

> > on! " , then adds another chapter about how Phil will learn someday

> > about his memes. As long as a little bit of energy is fed to the

> > writers, the story will continue to grow and soon I'll have folks

> > recommending good therapists in my area and wishing me good luck

> > with my challenges. Hehe.

> >

> > It's important because this is what we refer to as illusion, the

> > stories we make up ABOUT what we perceive, not the perception

> > itself. There is no problem with the perception of what is. The

> > stories are all pervasive and quickly dominate our view of the

> > world and of life. What is life without the stories about life?

> > First you might find that it's empty, which is why you write the

> > stories, then you might find that it's full in the absence of

> > those stories. Are you willing to see what life is about in the

> > absence of the stories?

> >

------

> > **

> Well, so long as we are all making up stories, then I might as well

make

> up a story too.

>

> I was attempting to make this point a little while back, that it is

> somewhat fruitless to focus on someone's story with the idea that the

> story is illusory, and then therefore somehow invalid.

>

> We all already know that.

>

> Taking that approach, the reason for sitting around this place becomes

> one of undermining everyone's attempts at stories and dilute them down

> to nothingness. The only real purpose here then becomes one of 'out

> doing each others nothingness dilution'.

>

> I don't really care either way though, everyone can do whatever they

> desire, I just wanted to point that out. Thanks for listening to my

> story.

>

> tyga

that's nuthin'.

:-)

..b b.b.

November 25, 2008

souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 12:41:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> tyga writes:

>

> Well, so long as we are all making up stories, then I might as

> well make

> up a story too.

>

> I was attempting to make this point a little while back, that it is

> somewhat fruitless to focus on someone's story with the idea that the

> story is illusory, and then therefore somehow invalid.

>

> We all already know that.

>

> Taking that approach, the reason for sitting around this place

> becomes

> one of undermining everyone's attempts at stories and dilute them

> down

> to nothingness. The only real purpose here then becomes one of 'out

> doing each others nothingness dilution'.

>

> I don't really care either way though, everyone can do whatever they

> desire, I just wanted to point that out. Thanks for listening to my

> story.

>

> tyga

>

> ***Oh, no, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not interested in

> deconstructing perception itself. What would be the point? I'm

> saying in the context in which there is a Phil perceiver and a

> Tyga perciever and a Niz forum and posts and words and such,

> that's what is. Your ego mind didn't write a story about there

> being a Phil who posts on the Niz forum. Your ego mind doesn't

> have anything to do with that and can't undo it or somehow see it

> as an illusion. When you 'Awaken' you'll still see me posting, so

> how are you going to explain it then? There are larger contexts in

> which it's all unfolding as Awareness in the form of perception

> itself, but who cares, really?

>

> What I'm talking about is what you've been witnessing the last

> couple of days as folks write stories ABOUT Phil's posts. They're

> not talking about what words they perceive and the color of the

> font, they're talking about their stories about what Phil is

> thinking, feeling, needing, what he doesn't understand, what he

> needs to understand, etc. THESE are the stories. THAT'S the

> illusion. See the difference?

>

> ------

> **

No, sorry, I didn't mean to point to you in particular at all, I was

only referring to the list in general. But now that you mention it.

What would be the point in deconstructing perception indeed, that is my

point, it becomes pointless. I've tried to make that point a few times,

and ironically, I get beaten down with more of the same nothingness

dilution competition.

How am I going to explain it? I don't explain it, I simply experience

it. Making an explanation is ok though, because that makes things

interesting, other wise we would have noting to talk about and there

would be NO point in even being here discussing stuff. I tried to make

this point a while ago that the only reason for being here is for

entertainment, for the experience. That only ended in me being told I

was wrong and that I ought to listen rather than talking, more of the

same pointless nothingness disillusioning.

This is all illusion (delusion?), this email communication, I can't

even be certain that Phill even exists. Have I met Phil? No, as far as I

know Phil IS black font on a white background, some text that appears on

my computer screen from time to time, in some place or another. I

construct Phil in my mind from what I see presented before me in text

and presume that I know Phil based on my own history and prejudices.

That's like seeing a childs crayon drawing of a house and then assuming

that is what real houses look like. It's absurd to presume to know Phil.

I couldn't even know Phil if I lived with Phil and spent 24 hours a day

with Phil.

It is all illusion, we might as well just get on with enjoy the

experience and forget about presuming we know anything at all.

Pretending to know is what we do here, nothing more, in my opinion.

The Phil I experience here is the Phil I invent.

tyga

November 25, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:33:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> Roberibus111 writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> > wwoehr@ writes:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard

Time,

> > > dennis_travis33@ writes:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific Standard

> > Time,

> > > > wwoehr@ writes:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > > > time.

> > > > >

> > > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that I'm

> > > > bothered? Please

> > > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are you

> > just

> > > > talking?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Stop fighting, Phil !

> > > >

> > > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then

> > gracefully

> > > > will present you a peaceful mind.

> > > >

> > > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling

around

> > the

> > > > longer it will be caught in.

> > > >

> > > > What we call identification is nothing else then the

emotional

> > > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the

more

> > > that

> > > > thought is identified.

> > > >

> > > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of

one's

> > > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.

> > > >

> > > > Werner

> > > >

> > > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where did

> > that

> > > story come

> > > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and

emotional

> > > steam and

> > > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly

emails

> > > and just as

> > > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it must be

> > about

> > > you. Anything I

> > > > can help you with, Werner?

> > > >

> > > ....are you married to each?...

> > >

> > > i mean, it look like....

> > >

> > > Marc

> > >

> > > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to

behave

> > himself.

> > > Hehe.

> > >

> >

> > Haha, Phil,

> >

> > Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed.

> > Wonderful !

> >

> > You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to

carry on

> > that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his

fear

> > not fully to get respected.

> >

> > Werner

> >

> > ****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrote

> stories

> > 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe.

> In a moment,

> > I'll say something that will change your story back and you'll say,

> 'Ohh, I

> > guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.'

> >

> > The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treat

> Werner with

> > kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a flattering

> one. If I

> > say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, the

> story of Phil

> > is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or just

> your story

> > of Phil?

> >

> > That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, and

> then a few

> > more stories written over here. Notice how they're all different

> versions,

> > every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really only

> looking at his own

> > reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really. Mostly

> he's a

> > blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.

>

> ahem.

>

> nobody gives a shit about who is or is not the 'real' phil.

>

> everybody gets quite enough of the unreal phil as it is.

>

> you enjoy everything & anything that has to do with you.

>

> and you never shut up about it.

>

> glad it is that there is no real you at all.

>

> certain it is that you will tell us all how that effects you.

>

> you believe that that should be important to everyone.

>

> it's actually not though Phil.

>

> .b b.b.

>

****Another interesting story. Are you sure it isn't about memes and

> fighting and feeling sorry for myself? One story is that I won't

talk about me and

> it's always about everybody else. I guess you don't believe in

those stories,

> huh? I'll bet you do believe in your story, don't you?

i don't believe in anything or anyone.

i'll leave that self deluded believing crap to you.

you seem to have unshakeable faith in your own nonsense.

bully for you Phil.

it doesn't matter.

it's just more stuff and such.

LOL!

..b b.b.

November 26, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:59 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> Roberibus111 writes:

>

> Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> >

> > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:33:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> > Roberibus111@ writes:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > >

> > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 5:05:14 A.M. Pacific Standard

Time,

> > > wwoehr@ writes:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 2:12:22 A.M. Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > > dennis_travis33@ writes:

> > > >

> > > > --- In Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > In a message dated 11/25/2008 1:10:39 A.M. Pacific

Standard

> > > Time,

> > > > > wwoehr@ writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , souldreamone@ wrote:

> > > > > > time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ****Tell me, Eric. Where did the story come from that

I'm

> > > > > bothered? Please

> > > > > > tell me who wrote that story. Are you listening or are

you

> > > just

> > > > > talking?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Stop fighting, Phil !

> > > > >

> > > > > Get the emotional steam out of your thoughts which then

> > > gracefully

> > > > > will present you a peaceful mind.

> > > > >

> > > > > The stronger an emotion of a topic thought is circling

> around

> > > the

> > > > > longer it will be caught in.

> > > > >

> > > > > What we call identification is nothing else then the

> emotional

> > > > > weighgt of a thought. The stronger the emotional weight the

> more

> > > > that

> > > > > thought is identified.

> > > > >

> > > > > Letting passing away and dying to the emotional drive of

> one's

> > > > > thoughts is the death of one's identity.

> > > > >

> > > > > Werner

> > > > >

> > > > > ***And so I'll ask you the same question, Werner. Where

did

> > > that

> > > > story come

> > > > > from? Tell me who wrote the story about fighting and

> emotional

> > > > steam and

> > > > > such. I'm sitting here modifying photos in between silly

> emails

> > > > and just as

> > > > > relaxed as I can be. So, as you wrote the story, it

must be

> > > about

> > > > you. Anything I

> > > > > can help you with, Werner?

> > > > >

> > > > ....are you married to each?...

> > > >

> > > > i mean, it look like....

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > > >

> > > > ****I'm making Werner sleep on the couch till he learns to

> behave

> > > himself.

> > > > Hehe.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Haha, Phil,

> > >

> > > Very nice to see your emotional quality greatly has changed.

> > > Wonderful !

> > >

> > > You must admit, Phil, that joking feels much better than to

> carry on

> > > that frustrating weight of a rambling wisecracker, driven by his

> fear

> > > not fully to get respected.

> > >

> > > Werner

> > >

> > > ****Well, in the same way you write your stories now, you wrote

> > stories

> > > 'then', whenever that was. You must be working on a sequel. Hehe.

> > In a moment,

> > > I'll say something that will change your story back and

you'll say,

> > 'Ohh, I

> > > guess Phil hasn't progressed as I thought he did.'

> > >

> > > The thing to notice is that it's always your story. If I treat

> > Werner with

> > > kindness and feed his needs, the story of Phil will be a

flattering

> > one. If I

> > > say something you disagree with or you don't want to hear, the

> > story of Phil

> > > is suddenly not so flattering. So is it Phil who changes, or just

> > your story

> > > of Phil?

> > >

> > > That story was written and rewritten many times over at NDS, and

> > then a few

> > > more stories written over here. Notice how they're all different

> > versions,

> > > every writer believing he sees the real Phil but really only

> > looking at his own

> > > reflection. There's not much to be said about Phil, really.

Mostly

> > he's a

> > > blank page for you to write your story. I DO enjoy reading them.

> >

> > ahem.

> >

> > nobody gives a shit about who is or is not the 'real' phil.

> >

> > everybody gets quite enough of the unreal phil as it is.

> >

> > you enjoy everything & anything that has to do with you.

> >

> > and you never shut up about it.

> >

> > glad it is that there is no real you at all.

> >

> > certain it is that you will tell us all how that effects you.

> >

> > you believe that that should be important to everyone.

> >

> > it's actually not though Phil.

> >

> > .b b.b.

> >

> > ****Another interesting story. Are you sure it isn't about memes

and

> > fighting and feeling sorry for myself? One story is that I won't

> talk about me and

> > it's always about everybody else. I guess you don't believe in

> those stories,

> > huh? I'll bet you do believe in your story, don't you?

>

> i don't believe in anything or anyone.

>

> i'll leave that self deluded believing crap to you.

>

> you seem to have unshakeable faith in your own nonsense.

>

> bully for you Phil.

>

> it doesn't matter.

>

> it's just more stuff and such.

>

> LOL!

>

> .b b.b.

****You believe what you say or you wouldn't have any reason to say

it. To

> believe and then pretend you don't is story telling with a dash of

unconscious

> denial.

i don't have any reason for saying what i do.

unconscious denial is a fairy tale.

grow up.

..b b.b.

November 26, 2008

Nisargadatta , souldreamone wrote:

>

> In a message dated 11/25/2008 3:05:10 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> Roberibus111 writes:

>

> >

> > ****You believe what you say or you wouldn't have any reason to say

> it. To

> > believe and then pretend you don't is story telling with a dash of

> unconscious

> > denial.

>

> i don't have any reason for saying what i do.

>

> unconscious denial is a fairy tale.

>

> grow up.

>

> .b b.b.

>

> ***Denial that there's such a thing as denial. Now there's a new

level of

> denial. That's scary, Bobo.

oh phillipth!

are you scared.

change levels sicko.

LOL!

..b b.b.

Sign In

Phil Unsubscribed by Jerry from NDS

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