Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 dear Werner, So, why do you bother about opening all those messages? Why don`t you just live! I am not putting you on the spot, because I agree with what you say, I am also tired of all the boloney, have lost the illusion that I can improve anything in the world, including myself, am not even interested to make my life more fanciful, because I ...(how can I say that without being mocked and plucked apart by hungry crows!) There is something a lot more breathable than all that non-sense, and that is all that is left in my life. Voila. And at the moment, there is a great impulse to stay in focus, by sharing, deepening, keep inhaling an altogether different substance.Communication is an important tool for now. What about you Werner? Patricia --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr a écrit : Very funny Phil, > True being < Then tell me please, what is 'false being' ? When you identify with God then it is 'true being' and when you identfy yourself with your bum then it is 'false being' ? This whole spiritual nonsense and confusion has its origin in dividing oneself in different parts, like: Consciousness, ego, self, soul, matter and spirit, awareness, thought, higher Self, false self, true Self, intellience, emotions, body, mind, God, Satan, good and evil, sin, Love, compassion, life and death etc, etc. Why not forgetting this whole spiritual baloney and spiritual idiocy and live, just live ? Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/9/2006 3:51:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr > Re: [Nisargadatt identifying with Awareness > > Arvind, > > A year ago I was in coma for one day and there was no memory left. I > could have died during that time without 'knowing' it. > > All this chattering and philosophizing about awareness, the knower, > eternity or the Absolute for me no longer makes any sense. Its only > task is to spend time and to get arround boredom. > > Werner > > > > > Well, clearly, without human consciousness and memory there is no experience > or the capacity to store and recall it. I guess based on that you conclude > there is no existence beyond human consciousness? I contend that true being is > not an experience anyway. It doesn't involve human consciousness or the > memory that makes the perception of linear time and events possible. > > I see no real difference in this respect between coma and deep sleep. The > active mind tries to recall what the experience of deep sleep is and finds > nothing stored in memory, but does this mean there was no existence? Do we cease > to exist in deep sleep and then suddenly start existing again when we awaken, > or is the apparent 'absence' just a trick of mind? > > Phil > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Patricia, at least one guy here does call the baloney " baloney " ... after all we should help each other to see the false as false... a thankless task... the false does never want to be called " false " . with best wishes Stefan Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > >dear Werner, > >So, why do you bother about opening all those >messages? >Why don`t you just live! >I am not putting you on the spot, because I agree with >what you say, I am also tired of all the boloney, have >lost the illusion that I can improve anything in the >world, including myself, am not even interested to >make my life more fanciful, because I ...(how can I >say that without being mocked and plucked apart by >hungry crows!) >There is something a lot more breathable than all that >non-sense, and that is all that is left in my life. >Voila. And at the moment, there is a great impulse to >stay in focus, by sharing, deepening, keep inhaling an >altogether different substance.Communication is an >important tool for now. >What about you Werner? >Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 > Why not forgetting this whole spiritual baloney and > spiritual idiocy > and live, just live ? > > Werner > > ************** Because all your *living* is idiocy. Wherever you are, there is an idiot. And to add insult to injury, you think it's fun. Truly, to call it idiocy is an understatement. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Yes, Patricia, Communication, Latin = 'communicare' to care together. Werner Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > dear Werner, > > So, why do you bother about opening all those > messages? > Why don`t you just live! > I am not putting you on the spot, because I agree with > what you say, I am also tired of all the boloney, have > lost the illusion that I can improve anything in the > world, including myself, am not even interested to > make my life more fanciful, because I ...(how can I > say that without being mocked and plucked apart by > hungry crows!) > There is something a lot more breathable than all that > non-sense, and that is all that is left in my life. > Voila. And at the moment, there is a great impulse to > stay in focus, by sharing, deepening, keep inhaling an > altogether different substance.Communication is an > important tool for now. > What about you Werner? > Patricia > --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr a écrit : > > > > Very funny Phil, > > > True being < > > Then tell me please, what is 'false being' ? > > When you identify with God then it is 'true being' and > when you > identfy yourself with your bum then it is 'false > being' ? > > This whole spiritual nonsense and confusion has its > origin in > dividing oneself in different parts, like: > > Consciousness, ego, self, soul, matter and spirit, > awareness, > thought, higher Self, false self, true Self, > intellience, emotions, > body, mind, God, Satan, good and evil, sin, Love, > compassion, life > and death etc, etc. > > Why not forgetting this whole spiritual baloney and > spiritual idiocy > and live, just live ? > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/9/2006 3:51:20 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > Re: [Nisargadatt identifying with > Awareness > > > > Arvind, > > > > A year ago I was in coma for one day and there was > no memory left. > I > > could have died during that time without 'knowing' > it. > > > > All this chattering and philosophizing about > awareness, the > knower, > > eternity or the Absolute for me no longer makes any > sense. Its > only > > task is to spend time and to get arround boredom. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Well, clearly, without human consciousness and > memory there is no > experience > > or the capacity to store and recall it. I guess > based on that you > conclude > > there is no existence beyond human consciousness? I > contend that > true being is > > not an experience anyway. It doesn't involve human > consciousness or > the > > memory that makes the perception of linear time and > events possible. > > > > I see no real difference in this respect between > coma and deep > sleep. The > > active mind tries to recall what the experience of > deep sleep is > and finds > > nothing stored in memory, but does this mean there > was no > existence? Do we cease > > to exist in deep sleep and then suddenly start > existing again when > we awaken, > > or is the apparent 'absence' just a trick of mind? > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? Raise The Vibration, Ana - Stefan Nisargadatta Friday, February 10, 2006 4:41 PM Re: about you Werner?? Patricia, at least one guy here does call the baloney " baloney " ... after all we should help each other to see the false as false... a thankless task... the false does never want to be called " false " . with best wishes Stefan Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > >dear Werner, > >So, why do you bother about opening all those >messages? >Why don`t you just live! >I am not putting you on the spot, because I agree with >what you say, I am also tired of all the boloney, have >lost the illusion that I can improve anything in the >world, including myself, am not even interested to >make my life more fanciful, because I ...(how can I >say that without being mocked and plucked apart by >hungry crows!) >There is something a lot more breathable than all that >non-sense, and that is all that is left in my life. >Voila. And at the moment, there is a great impulse to >stay in focus, by sharing, deepening, keep inhaling an >altogether different substance.Communication is an >important tool for now. >What about you Werner? >Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? > > I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? > > > Raise The Vibration, > > Ana If you don´t stop raising the vibration, you might explode, sweetheart. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? > > I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? > > > Raise The Vibration, > > Ana If you don´t stop raising the vibration, you might explode, sweetheart. Len it is OK Ana, we`ll all explose with you, in infinite Love, Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Oh but I care about our communication, your mails are always the first one I open lately, understand that I do really appreciate your staight and simple outlook on that stuff. Patricia --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr a écrit : Yes, Patricia, Communication, Latin = 'communicare' to care together. Werner Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > dear Werner, > > So, why do you bother about opening all those > messages? > Why don`t you just live! > I am not putting you on the spot, because I agree with > what you say, I am also tired of all the boloney, have > lost the illusion that I can improve anything in the > world, including myself, am not even interested to > make my life more fanciful, because I ...(how can I > say that without being mocked and plucked apart by > hungry crows!) > There is something a lot more breathable than all that > non-sense, and that is all that is left in my life. > Voila. And at the moment, there is a great impulse to > stay in focus, by sharing, deepening, keep inhaling an > altogether different substance.Communication is an > important tool for now. > What about you Werner? > Patricia > --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr a écrit : > > > > Very funny Phil, > > > True being < > > Then tell me please, what is 'false being' ? > > When you identify with God then it is 'true being' and > when you > identfy yourself with your bum then it is 'false > being' ? > > This whole spiritual nonsense and confusion has its > origin in > dividing oneself in different parts, like: > > Consciousness, ego, self, soul, matter and spirit, > awareness, > thought, higher Self, false self, true Self, > intellience, emotions, > body, mind, God, Satan, good and evil, sin, Love, > compassion, life > and death etc, etc. > > Why not forgetting this whole spiritual baloney and > spiritual idiocy > and live, just live ? > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/9/2006 3:51:20 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@> > > Re: [Nisargadatt identifying with > Awareness > > > > Arvind, > > > > A year ago I was in coma for one day and there was > no memory left. > I > > could have died during that time without 'knowing' > it. > > > > All this chattering and philosophizing about > awareness, the > knower, > > eternity or the Absolute for me no longer makes any > sense. Its > only > > task is to spend time and to get arround boredom. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Well, clearly, without human consciousness and > memory there is no > experience > > or the capacity to store and recall it. I guess > based on that you > conclude > > there is no existence beyond human consciousness? I > contend that > true being is > > not an experience anyway. It doesn't involve human > consciousness or > the > > memory that makes the perception of linear time and > events possible. > > > > I see no real difference in this respect between > coma and deep > sleep. The > > active mind tries to recall what the experience of > deep sleep is > and finds > > nothing stored in memory, but does this mean there > was no > existence? Do we cease > > to exist in deep sleep and then suddenly start > existing again when > we awaken, > > or is the apparent 'absence' just a trick of mind? > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 boom!! Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have heard ;-) Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? Ana - lissbon2002 Nisargadatta Friday, February 10, 2006 6:50 PM Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? > > I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? > > > Raise The Vibration, > > Ana If you don´t stop raising the vibration, you might explode, sweetheart. Len ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. It's all false. Concepts are false, words are false, thoughts are false, ideas are false, perception is false. There is no Absolute Truth to be found in illusion. It's not here in any form. What sense does it make to say your concept is wrong and mine is right, or to tell somebody not to use dualistic words or concepts when they write here. This isn't possible. I'm grateful that most here have gotten over the obsession of reminding us that we don't exist and continually asking us who it is that's thinking that or writing that. The same questions can be asked of the person asking the questions, and round and round we go. We have minds and nothing else to work with here. Those minds think conceptually and use dualistic words to communicate those concepts. It's just the way it is. Get over it, please. What can fairly be said is that there are different levels of falsity, some pointing quite well to Truth and some pointing away from it. That's all. That's all we're doing here. Nothing needs to be corrected. Can we all put our vibrators down and back away sloooowly? Phil In a message dated 2/10/2006 3:58:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: Re: about you Werner?? And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? Raise The Vibration, Ana - Stefan Nisargadatta Friday, February 10, 2006 4:41 PM Re: about you Werner?? Patricia, at least one guy here does call the baloney " baloney " ... after all we should help each other to see the false as false... a thankless task... the false does never want to be called " false " . with best wishes Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 - OConnor Patricia Nisargadatta Friday, February 10, 2006 7:33 PM RE: Re: about you Werner?? --- lissbon2002 <lissbon2002 a écrit : Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? > > I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? > > > Raise The Vibration, > > Ana If you don´t stop raising the vibration, you might explode, sweetheart. Len it is OK Ana, we`ll all explose with you, in infinite Love, Patricia Boom!!!! Raise the Vibration & let it all out.. ;-) ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. It's > all false. Concepts are false, words are false, thoughts are false, ideas are > false, perception is false. There is no Absolute Truth to be found in > illusion. It's not here in any form. W: Hi Phil, it is not the concept are false, they are just...concepts! about Absolute Truth i'd say that it is not here in any form, yes, and it is neither there formless. > > What sense does it make to say your concept is wrong and mine is right, or > to tell somebody not to use dualistic words or concepts when they write here. W: yes, it is not about right-wrong, as you know. > This isn't possible. I'm grateful that most here have gotten over the > obsession of reminding us that we don't exist and continually asking us who it is > that's thinking that or writing that. The same questions can be asked of the > person asking the questions, and round and round we go. W: so what? are you imagining to go somewhere? > > We have minds and nothing else to work with here. W: What has the mind? What makes the mind work? Those minds think > conceptually and use dualistic words to communicate those concepts. It's just the way > it is. Get over it, please. W: it seems this prayer has not been listened What can fairly be said is that there are > different levels of falsity, some pointing quite well to Truth and some pointing > away from it. That's all. That's all we're doing here. Nothing needs to be > corrected. W: no, everything points to truth, because truth is nothing. > > Can we all put our vibrators down and back away sloooowly? > > Phil > > > > In a message dated 2/10/2006 3:58:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u > Re: Re: about you Werner?? > > And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? > > I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? > > > Raise The Vibration, > > Ana > - > Stefan > Nisargadatta > Friday, February 10, 2006 4:41 PM > Re: about you Werner?? > > > Patricia, at least one guy here does call the baloney " baloney " ... > after all we should help each other to see the false as false... a > thankless task... the false does never want to be called " false " . > > with best wishes > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. To call the false " false " has nothing to do with " calling folks on their falseness " . Its not us folks who are false. But all those unnecessary concepts... misunderstood spirituality... are forming the cloud that surrounds us. Phil, in the long run, I have profited much more from those who had the courage to call my spiritual constructions " baloney " than from those, who said " yes sir, you are right " . But of course, short term the " false " will do everything to justify itself. Understandable! Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Saturday, February 11, 2006 2:18 AM Re: about you Werner?? That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. It's all false. Concepts are false, words are false, thoughts are false, ideas are false, perception is false. There is no Absolute Truth to be found in illusion. It's not here in any form. What sense does it make to say your concept is wrong and mine is right, or to tell somebody not to use dualistic words or concepts when they write here. This isn't possible. I'm grateful that most here have gotten over the obsession of reminding us that we don't exist and continually asking us who it is that's thinking that or writing that. The same questions can be asked of the person asking the questions, and round and round we go. We have minds and nothing else to work with here. Those minds think conceptually and use dualistic words to communicate those concepts. It's just the way it is. Get over it, please. What can fairly be said is that there are different levels of falsity, some pointing quite well to Truth and some pointing away from it. That's all. That's all we're doing here. Nothing needs to be corrected. Can we all put our vibrators down and back away sloooowly? Phil Ana: Heheheh, oh you distinct vibrating pattern calling yourself Phil... Raise the Vibration, In a message dated 2/10/2006 3:58:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: Re: about you Werner?? And therein lies the problem of the ages, what is false? I think I know, I beLIEve I know, do you? Raise The Vibration, Ana - Stefan Nisargadatta Friday, February 10, 2006 4:41 PM Re: about you Werner?? Patricia, at least one guy here does call the baloney " baloney " ... after all we should help each other to see the false as false... a thankless task... the false does never want to be called " false " . with best wishes Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: Re: about you Werner?? boom!! Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have heard ;-) Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? Ana I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity only by raising our own consciousness. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Stefan " <s.petersilge Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. To call the false " false " has nothing to do with " calling folks on their falseness " . Its not us folks who are false. But all those unnecessary concepts... misunderstood spirituality... are forming the cloud that surrounds us. Phil, in the long run, I have profited much more from those who had the courage to call my spiritual constructions " baloney " than from those, who said " yes sir, you are right " . But of course, short term the " false " will do everything to justify itself. Understandable! Greetings Stefan Possibly, I didn't make my point very clear. I often challenge the beliefs of others and am challenged in turn. Contemplating both scenarios has been very useful to me. Truth is more important to me than any concepts I hold, which are only stepping stones and crutches that perhaps I can do away with all together at some point. When I look at concepts, I don't see some concepts that are true and others that are false, and when someone separates concepts in this way, it betrays a misunderstanding. I see concepts distributed on a continuum, not of right and wrong or correct and incorrect, but one that is relative to the context of a given understanding. IOW, as one's understanding evolves, the concepts evolve along with it, and none of these concepts is actually true in the absolute sense and so it's not meaningful to call any of them false. If I see a more expansive view of a concept, I offer it, not to make any concept wrong, but just to reduce it's ability to limit as all concepts do. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:00 AM Re: about you Werner?? In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: Re: about you Werner?? boom!! Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have heard ;-) Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? Ana I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity only by raising our own consciousness. Phil Exactly Phil!! Exactly, you got it brother, you got it. The 100th monkey theory. :-) Raise The Vibration, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:17 AM Re: about you Werner?? In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Stefan " <s.petersilge Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. To call the false " false " has nothing to do with " calling folks on their falseness " . Its not us folks who are false. But all those unnecessary concepts... misunderstood spirituality... are forming the cloud that surrounds us. Phil, in the long run, I have profited much more from those who had the courage to call my spiritual constructions " baloney " than from those, who said " yes sir, you are right " . But of course, short term the " false " will do everything to justify itself. Understandable! Greetings Stefan Possibly, I didn't make my point very clear. I often challenge the beliefs of others and am challenged in turn. Contemplating both scenarios has been very useful to me. Truth is more important to me than any concepts I hold, which are only stepping stones and crutches that perhaps I can do away with all together at some point. When I look at concepts, I don't see some concepts that are true and others that are false, and when someone separates concepts in this way, it betrays a misunderstanding. I see concepts distributed on a continuum, not of right and wrong or correct and incorrect, but one that is relative to the context of a given understanding. IOW, as one's understanding evolves, the concepts evolve along with it, and none of these concepts is actually true in the absolute sense and so it's not meaningful to call any of them false. If I see a more expansive view of a concept, I offer it, not to make any concept wrong, but just to reduce it's ability to limit as all concepts do. Phil This is what we do on these lists, dharmic battles. Honing our swords of truth even as we speak. Some truths never change, some do no-thing but change. If there are any kinks in our armor, it will be seen. Raise The Vibration, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > > - > ADHHUB > Nisargadatta > Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:00 AM > Re: about you Werner?? > > > > In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u > Re: Re: about you Werner?? > > boom!! > > > Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. > One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have > heard ;-) > > Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? > > Ana > > > > I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what > it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing > someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising > our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. > > In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a > field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the > context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and > within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance > consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, > and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to > evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity > only by raising our own consciousness. > > Phil > > > Exactly Phil!! > > Exactly, you got it brother, you got it. > > The 100th monkey theory. :-) > > Raise The Vibration, > Ana ***Critical mass? " Silver " > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 - s_i_l_v_e_r1069 Nisargadatta Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:42 AM Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > > - > ADHHUB > Nisargadatta > Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:00 AM > Re: about you Werner?? > > > > In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u > Re: Re: about you Werner?? > > boom!! > > > Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. > One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have > heard ;-) > > Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? > > Ana > > > > I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what > it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing > someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising > our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. > > In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a > field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the > context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and > within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance > consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, > and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to > evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity > only by raising our own consciousness. > > Phil > > > Exactly Phil!! > > Exactly, you got it brother, you got it. > > The 100th monkey theory. :-) > > Raise The Vibration, > Ana ***Critical mass? " Silver " - Silver is now Gold. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >When I look at concepts, I don't see some concepts that are true and >others that are false, and when someone separates concepts in this >way, it betrays a misunderstanding. Phil, this is correct! I have not claimed that there is anything " true " . To call the true by a name is the very " baloney " ! Haha!!! Nisargadatta says it: " You can know the false only. The true you must yourself be. " Logically and pragmatically you are correct when you say that in this case it is meaningless to call anything false. But for me it makes a big difference. To see the false as false can break the insane identification with whatever is experienced. Nothing that can be discussed, be it in the inner or the outer chatterbox, is not false. Greetings Stefan I see concepts distributed on a continuum, not of right and > wrong or correct and incorrect, but one that is relative to the context of a > given understanding. IOW, as one's understanding evolves, the concepts > evolve along with it, and none of these concepts is actually true in the absolute > sense and so it's not meaningful to call any of them false. > > If I see a more expansive view of a concept, I offer it, not to make any > concept wrong, but just to reduce it's ability to limit as all concepts do. > > > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 In a message dated 2/12/2006 1:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > ADHHUB > Nisargadatta > Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:00 AM > Re: about you Werner?? > > > > In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u > Re: Re: about you Werner?? > > boom!! > > > Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. > One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have > heard ;-) > > Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? > > Ana > > > > I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what > it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing > someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising > our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. > > In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a > field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the > context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and > within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance > consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, > and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to > evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity > only by raising our own consciousness. > > Phil > > > Exactly Phil!! > > Exactly, you got it brother, you got it. > > The 100th monkey theory. :-) > > Raise The Vibration, > Ana ***Critical mass? " Silver " That's the one on Christmas Day. Ya don't dare miss that mass or all hell will break loose! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 In a message dated 2/12/2006 1:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: Re: about you Werner?? - s_i_l_v_e_r1069 Nisargadatta Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:42 AM Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > > - > ADHHUB > Nisargadatta > Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:00 AM > Re: about you Werner?? > > > > In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u > Re: Re: about you Werner?? > > boom!! > > > Darling, I'd say most of the world is functioning on quite a low vibe. > One person taking it higher can balance thousands on a low, or so I have > heard ;-) > > Thanks for your concern Len. Where are u from? Lisbon? > > Ana > > > > I basically agree with that, but allow me to offer my understanding of what > it means. It doesn't relate to behaving in some particular way or to causing > someone to understand something they don't already know. It's about raising > our own level of consciousness; our spiritual awareness, if you will. > > In one context, all of humanity draw from what might be conceptualized as a > field of collective consciousness. As we know, we're not separate in the > context of consciousness. All of creation is continuously manifested from and > within consciousness. Ultimately, the human doesn't 'do' anything to advance > consciousness because it doesn't exist as an entity with independent volition, > and yet the experiential vehicle seemingly evolves. It does not cause others to > evolve. From a human perspective, we raise the consciousness of humanity > only by raising our own consciousness. > > Phil > > > Exactly Phil!! > > Exactly, you got it brother, you got it. > > The 100th monkey theory. :-) > > Raise The Vibration, > Ana ***Critical mass? " Silver " - Silver is now Gold. ;-) Tansmutation! Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 In a message dated 2/12/2006 1:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Stefan " <s.petersilge Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >When I look at concepts, I don't see some concepts that are true and >others that are false, and when someone separates concepts in this >way, it betrays a misunderstanding. Phil, this is correct! I have not claimed that there is anything " true " . To call the true by a name is the very " baloney " ! Haha!!! Nisargadatta says it: " You can know the false only. The true you must yourself be. " Logically and pragmatically you are correct when you say that in this case it is meaningless to call anything false. But for me it makes a big difference. To see the false as false can break the insane identification with whatever is experienced. Nothing that can be discussed, be it in the inner or the outer chatterbox, is not false. Greetings Stefan Yes, to identify the limiting boundaries of an idea is useful. This can be done with all ideas. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2006 Report Share Posted February 13, 2006 In a message dated 2/12/2006 1:42:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u Re: about you Werner?? - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:17 AM Re: about you Werner?? In a message dated 2/11/2006 1:52:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Stefan " <s.petersilge Re: about you Werner?? Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: >That's the insanity of continuously calling folks on their falseness. To call the false " false " has nothing to do with " calling folks on their falseness " . Its not us folks who are false. But all those unnecessary concepts... misunderstood spirituality... are forming the cloud that surrounds us. Phil, in the long run, I have profited much more from those who had the courage to call my spiritual constructions " baloney " than from those, who said " yes sir, you are right " . But of course, short term the " false " will do everything to justify itself. Understandable! Greetings Stefan Possibly, I didn't make my point very clear. I often challenge the beliefs of others and am challenged in turn. Contemplating both scenarios has been very useful to me. Truth is more important to me than any concepts I hold, which are only stepping stones and crutches that perhaps I can do away with all together at some point. When I look at concepts, I don't see some concepts that are true and others that are false, and when someone separates concepts in this way, it betrays a misunderstanding. I see concepts distributed on a continuum, not of right and wrong or correct and incorrect, but one that is relative to the context of a given understanding. IOW, as one's understanding evolves, the concepts evolve along with it, and none of these concepts is actually true in the absolute sense and so it's not meaningful to call any of them false. If I see a more expansive view of a concept, I offer it, not to make any concept wrong, but just to reduce it's ability to limit as all concepts do. Phil This is what we do on these lists, dharmic battles. Honing our swords of truth even as we speak. Some truths never change, some do no-thing but change. If there are any kinks in our armor, it will be seen. Raise The Vibration, Ana If what is seen is battles, swords and armor, then perhaps bloodshed is unavoidable. If what is seen is a dedication to our own divine nature and an unconditional love of Truth, maybe the outcome would be different. Mayhaps the difference between the two is just a matter of raising one's vibration? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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