Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Dear Judi and Toombaru, I was expressing truth as I experience it. You are a very good tag team. Peace brother and sister and best wishes. Love to all Harsha _____ Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On Behalf Of toombaru2004 Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:44 AM Nisargadatta Re: The Essential Teaching The tag team....Judi & toombaru....stand ...back to back .......defiantly.....looking all squinty eyed.......crouchy down..................center ring...... waiting...............waiting.............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Harsha " wrote: > Dear Judi and Toombaru, > > > > I was expressing truth as I experience it. I know.....That's the problem. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Harsha " wrote: > Dear Judi and Toombaru, > > > > I was expressing truth as I experience it. You are a very good tag team. > > ********** Truth? Please, don't make us laugh. Judi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 _____ Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On Behalf Of toombaru2004 Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:19 PM Nisargadatta Re: The Essential Teaching Nisargadatta , " Harsha " wrote: > Dear Judi and Toombaru, > I was expressing truth as I experience it. I know.....That's the problem. toombaru ****************************************************** :-) :-) :-) Be at peace brother. If there are problems, let there be problems. Be at peace. Love, Harsha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , Harsha wrote: > devianandi wrote: > > > > > Know That by which all else is known! > > > > hi harshiji, i probably should have come to you with this puzzle in > > the first place... > > > > > > " In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three > > states are destroyed, never to re-appear. However others notice the > > jnani active, e.g. eating, talking, moving, etc. He is not himself > > aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his > > activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, > > swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger --or like a > > child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. The > > child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and that he > > went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be convinced. > > So also is sahaja samadhi. " > > > > ok, so whats this about.... > > > > i know asamprajnata samadhi -super-consciousness beyond (perfet) > > knowledge: the Self dwelling in the Self: acognitive samadhi... > > > > > > i never heard of a liberated being not being aware of the three > > states, waking states...dreaming and deep sleep...until i saw it on > > your sight.. > > > > that description of the jnanai above is what meher baba calls a > > *mast*.... > > > > i feel like i need to know more about it? > > > > :-) devi > > Dear Deviji: > > The above quote is from Sri Ramana. In the dialogues Sri Ramana > differentiates between Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Sahaj Samadhi. > *Asamprajnata samadhi seems like another name for Nirvikalpa Samadhi.* > Have you read the " Talks " or other conversations with Sri Ramana? > Perhaps you can also ask your guru on this matter since you respect him > much. > > Love to all > Harsha devi: yes i know it was a sri ramana quote but since ramana can't be asked and your very involved with his teachings i thought you might make the matter clearer.. so, is it fair to assume that anyone who says they are aware of creaton, the external world is NOT liberated...? and, maybe one day i'll ask baba hari dass....i keep meaning to make a private appointment with him but i seem to procrastinate.... by the way.. i think i am understanding the diferent samadhis like this: asamprajnata samadhi and nirvikalpa samadhi are the same but nirvikalpa samadhi doesn't always lead to liberation (kaivalya)while asamprjnata samadhi does... so many terms, so much to learn... i noticed that you see that ramankrishnas nirvikalpa samadhi is different then ramanas...i'll have to check that out...anyone have their copy of the Gospel handy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 _____ Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On Behalf Of devianandi Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:28 PM Nisargadatta Re: The Essential Teaching i noticed that you see that ramankrishnas nirvikalpa samadhi is different then ramanas...i'll have to check that out...anyone have their copy of the Gospel handy? ******************************** Dear DeviJi, The Yogic Nirvikalpa is the Shakti joining Shiva in the Sahasarara. This is difficult to come out of as with the rise of Kundalini, prana is withdrawn from all over the body and becomes focused and concentrated in the Brain center with intensity. The ecstasy is such that the desire to bring it down diminishes rapidly, the longer one stays in it. Ramakrishna, I believe refers to that quality of this Samadhi. The Nirvikalpa Sri Ramana refers to is Shakti going beyond the Sahasarara and merging in the Spiritual Heart. All experiences cease and the Self Sees It Self by It Self and through It Self. This Self-Knowing is referred to as Sat-Chit-Ananda. Ultimately, one has to be natural and to be oneself. Indifferent to all experiences, if one remains as awareness, all Samadhis are included in that. Love to all Harsha /join Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Harsha wrote: > > devianandi wrote: > > > > > > > > Know That by which all else is known! > > > > > > hi harshiji, i probably should have come to you with this puzzle > in > > > the first place... > > > > > > > > > " In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the > three > > > states are destroyed, never to re-appear. However others notice > the > > > jnani active, e.g. eating, talking, moving, etc. He is not > himself > > > aware of these activities, whereas others are aware of his > > > activities. They pertain to his body and not to his Real Self, > > > swarupa. For himself, he is like the sleeping passenger --or > like a > > > child interrupted from sound sleep and fed, being unaware of it. > The > > > child says the next day that he did not take milk at all and > that he > > > went to sleep without it. Even when reminded he cannot be > convinced. > > > So also is sahaja samadhi. " > > > > > > ok, so whats this about.... > > > > > > i know asamprajnata samadhi -super-consciousness beyond (perfet) > > > knowledge: the Self dwelling in the Self: acognitive samadhi... > > > > > > > > > i never heard of a liberated being not being aware of the three > > > states, waking states...dreaming and deep sleep...until i saw it > on > > > your sight.. > > > > > > that description of the jnanai above is what meher baba calls a > > > *mast*.... > > > > > > i feel like i need to know more about it? > > > > > > :-) devi > > > > Dear Deviji: > > > > The above quote is from Sri Ramana. In the dialogues Sri Ramana > > differentiates between Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Sahaj > Samadhi. > > *Asamprajnata samadhi seems like another name for Nirvikalpa > Samadhi.* > > Have you read the " Talks " or other conversations with Sri Ramana? > > Perhaps you can also ask your guru on this matter since you > respect him > > much. > > > > Love to all > > Harsha > > devi: yes i know it was a sri ramana quote but since ramana can't be > asked and your very involved with his teachings i thought you might > make the matter clearer.. > > so, is it fair to assume that anyone who says they are aware of > creaton, the external world is NOT liberated...? > > and, maybe one day i'll ask baba hari dass....i keep meaning to make > a private appointment with him but i seem to procrastinate.... > > > by the way.. > > i think i am understanding the diferent samadhis like this: > asamprajnata samadhi and nirvikalpa samadhi are the same but > nirvikalpa samadhi doesn't always lead to liberation (kaivalya) while > asamprjnata samadhi does... > > so many terms, so much to learn... > > i noticed that you see that ramankrishnas nirvikalpa samadhi is > different then ramanas...i'll have to check that out...anyone have > their copy of the Gospel handy? Namaste D,IMHO, There is really only one Real Samadhi the others are variations of tied consciousness, or temporary. Ramana's highest teaching is Ajativada i.e. it never happened at all, you will find this in 'Be as you are' by Godman and in other letters on Ramana. However most do not follow that and follow one of the other two theories of creation, so most of the time Ramana talked to them at their level of understanding. Most of the devotees are actually very dualistic as is evidenced by examining the Raman sites on . THE SELF/SIVA that Ramana talked about was really Saguna Brahman Concept, as he knew his audience would in the main reject his highest teaching. Because of lack of awareness or a need to worship 'something'. However as a Realised Being he also knew that realisation of Saguna also brought with it the realisation of Nirguna. So it was superfluous to insist upon teachings they didn't understand at all. There is a proviso here with regard to Bhakti, some don't achieve ultimate liberation and achieve Brahmaloka or one of the highest levels of consciousness not requiring rebirth. This is no doubt due to their intense love and identification with a love one or Guru- Ishtadevata, preventing the dissolution of all thought. Ramana does say that a Mukta does things automatically, and he uses the child feeding and not remembering as an example. This indicates that the body has of course still fulfill the Prarabda Karma of that birth, whether a Mukti or not the karma would be the same. So a Mukti would still behave as a human in life, but would see 'creation' as a manifestation or appearance on The Self. This is because consciousness still exists in the Vijnanamayakos until death. Even though the 'Ego' has merged so to speak. One must take into account Prarabda Karma and the connection to the body, mind and even species mind as long as the body survives. Many devotees latch on to some behaviour or words of the Mukta as being gospel, even though they are Prarabda Speaking. They don't understand the difference, and that is most people. On bodiless Moksha or death of the body, it would all disappear including the concept of Saguna, so it never happened at all....ONS...Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Wednesday, May 04, 2005 10:43 AM Re: The Essential Teaching Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Harsha wrote: > > > > You exist. You are aware that you exist. Abiding in this > awareness > > > as > > > > awareness is the practice. Looking within with awareness at > one's > > > own > > > > existence is self-inquiry. There is no higher meditation than > this > > > self > > > > existent awareness. This practice itself merges in the goal and > > > that is > > > > Self-Realization or Self-Recognition. Sri Ramana said to Paul > > > Brunton > > > > that the practice of the Sadhaka is the state of the Siddha. It > is > > > all > > > > an open secret and crystal clear. Everything is transparent as > > > existing > > > > and subsiding in awareness. > > > > > > > > Know That by which all else is known! > > > > > > > > Love to all > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 The Yogic Nirvikalpa is the Shakti joining Shiva in the Sahasarara. This is difficult to come out of as with the rise of Kundalini, prana is withdrawn from all over the body and becomes focused and concentrated in the Brain center with intensity. The ecstasy is such that the desire to bring it down diminishes rapidly, the longer one stays in it. Ramakrishna, I believe refers to that quality of this Samadhi. The Nirvikalpa Sri Ramana refers to is Shakti going beyond the Sahasarara and merging in the Spiritual Heart. All experiences cease and the Self Sees It Self by It Self and through It Self. This Self-Knowing is referred to as Sat-Chit-Ananda. Ultimately, one has to be natural and to be oneself. Indifferent to all experiences, if one remains as awareness, all Samadhis are included in that. devi: you've written that very beautifully...i had that kundilini experience and it lasted 3 weeks...and i had that *all experiences cease and the Self Realized Its Self by It Self...(notice i use the word realizes) because meher baba says that *seeing* the Self is not yet realiztion...seeing could mean seeing as throught the ajna chakra...so i think.. i'm thinking of giving yoga classes here where i live..:-) and want to have all my *terms* in order... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > The Yogic Nirvikalpa is the Shakti joining Shiva in the Sahasarara. > This is difficult to come out of as with the rise of Kundalini, prana > is withdrawn from all over the body and becomes focused and > concentrated in the Brain center with intensity. The ecstasy is such > that the desire to bring it down diminishes rapidly, the longer one > stays in it. Ramakrishna, I believe refers to that quality of this > Samadhi. The Nirvikalpa Sri Ramana refers to > is Shakti going beyond the Sahasarara and merging in the Spiritual > Heart. All experiences cease and the Self Sees It Self by It Self and > through It Self. This Self-Knowing is referred to as Sat-Chit- Ananda. > Ultimately, one has to be natural and to be oneself. Indifferent to > all experiences, if one remains as awareness, all Samadhis are > included in that. > > devi: you've written that very beautifully...i had that kundilini > experience and it lasted 3 weeks...and i had that *all experiences > cease and the Self Realized Its Self by It Self...(notice i use the > word realizes) because meher baba says that *seeing* the Self is not > yet realiztion...seeing could mean seeing as throught the ajna > chakra...so i think.. > > i'm thinking of giving yoga classes here where i live..:-) and want to > have all my *terms* in order... Namaste D, These are all experiences and the 'search/desire for experiences'. I find in my experience that any so called Kundalini experiences are not leading to enlightenment. I just note that they are happening and that's all. Ramana would concur with this and so would Lakshmana Swamy, for consciousness has to 'merge' in the spiritual heart. Sahasrara is part of manifestation, and everything is Kundalini or Universal Mind anyway. So why not bypass the experiences and go straight to the Spiritual Heart or Moksha? What people call K is actually the movements of prana, probably in a cleansing fashion. The heavier the manifestation the more cleansing was needed hahaahh.....ONS..Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Harsha " wrote: > _____ > > Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ] On > Behalf Of toombaru2004 > Wednesday, May 04, 2005 12:19 PM > Nisargadatta > Re: The Essential Teaching > > > > Nisargadatta , " Harsha " wrote: > > Dear Judi and Toombaru, > > > I was expressing truth as I experience it. > > I know.....That's the problem. > > toombaru > > ****************************************************** > > :-) :-) :-) > > > > Be at peace brother. If there are problems, let there be problems. Be at > peace. > > > > Love, > > Harsha > > > Too much sugar......gives me a headache. toombaru > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 tony: These are all experiences and the 'search/desire for experiences'. I find in my experience that any so called Kundalini experiences are not leading to enlightenment. tony:I just note that they are happening and that's all. Ramana would concur with this and so would Lakshmana Swamy, for consciousness has to 'merge' in the spiritual heart. Sahasrara is part of manifestation, and everything is Kundalini or Universal Mind anyway. So why not bypass the experiences and go straight to the Spiritual Heart or Moksha? What people call K is actually the movements of prana, probably in a cleansing fashion. The heavier the manifestation the more cleansing was needed hahaahh.....ONS..Tony. devi: i know, you think most people claiming to have kundilini experiences are just having *prana* move around..when i first read you saying that maybe a year ago i thought about what the differences are..my experience was definitly kundilini i felt it go up and down my spine and then shooting out the top of my head and filling a darkened room with light..after that i was in i think whats called savikalpa samadhi...i was extatic, i was seeing saints and talking to God...there was still that separation though, thinking/feeling God was *other*...but that only lasted 3 weeks and then i realized the Self..... so to me realizing the Self IS merging in the spiritual heart..but is that liberation....i think not... why not bypass that expereince? haha... alot of people get realized and they don't know all the ins and outs of self-realization, they get there with their eyes closed so to speak...i feel fortunate that i've had so may beautiful expereinces...(those lesser samadhis).... i will probably be able to help people with their sadhana someday, god willing! i know that you don't pray to God but do you pray to your atman to reveal the truth to you.? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 --- Judi Rhodes <judirhodes wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , > " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Harsha > wrote: > > > > You exist. You are aware that you exist. > Abiding in this > awareness > > > as > > > > awareness is the practice. Looking within with > awareness at > one's > > > own > > > > existence is self-inquiry. There is no higher > meditation than > this > > > self > > > > existent awareness. This practice itself > merges in the goal and > > > that is > > > > Self-Realization or Self-Recognition. Sri > Ramana said to Paul > > > Brunton > > > > that the practice of the Sadhaka is the state > of the Siddha. It > is > > > all > > > > an open secret and crystal clear. Everything > is transparent as > > > existing > > > > and subsiding in awareness. > > > > > > > > Know That by which all else is known! > > > > > > > > Love to all > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 > > > > There is no right way to talk about being just as > there is no wrong way,it just is and all this useless > prattle is nothing more than a distraction.Im right > and you are wrong,its this and not that,my teacher is > better than yours, yada yada yada.No human has the > same background as another so each and every > description or story is going to be different. > Its realy funny to watch how people on this board are > so infatuated by there knowledge and how they can > realy lash out at those who dont know anything. > I think Jesus said to remove the shit from your own > eye before you attempt to remove the speck from your > neighbors. > Oh and by the way,not knowing anything is realy > cool......................................... > Cobb Knowing that you don't know anything........Is knowing something. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > tony: These are all experiences and the 'search/desire for > experiences'. I find in my experience that any so called Kundalini > experiences are not leading to enlightenment. > > > tony:I just note that they are happening and that's all. Ramana > would concur with this and so would Lakshmana Swamy, for > consciousness has to 'merge' in the spiritual heart. Sahasrara is > part of manifestation, and everything is Kundalini or Universal > Mind anyway. So why not bypass the experiences and go straight to > the Spiritual Heart or Moksha? > > What people call K is actually the movements of prana, probably in > a cleansing fashion. The heavier the manifestation the more > cleansing was needed hahaahh.....ONS..Tony. > > devi: i know, you think most people claiming to have kundilini > experiences are just having *prana* move around..when i first read > you saying that maybe a year ago i thought about what the > differences are..my experience was definitly kundilini i felt it go > up and down my spine and then shooting out the top of my head and > filling a darkened room with light..after that i was in i think > whats called savikalpa samadhi...i was extatic, i was seeing saints > and talking to God...there was still that separation though, > thinking/feeling God was *other*...but that only lasted 3 weeks and > then i realized the Self..... > > so to me realizing the Self IS merging in the spiritual heart..but > is that liberation....i think not... > > why not bypass that expereince? haha... > > alot of people get realized and they don't know all the ins and outs > of self-realization, they get there with their eyes closed so to > speak...i feel fortunate that i've had so may beautiful > expereinces...(those lesser samadhis).... > > i will probably be able to help people with their sadhana someday, > god willing! > > i know that you don't pray to God but do you pray to your atman to > reveal the truth to you.? Namaste.D, Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I use mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences when I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K without great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so spiritual awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's which I guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > tony: These are all experiences and the 'search/desire for > > experiences'. I find in my experience that any so called Kundalini > > experiences are not leading to enlightenment. > > > > > > tony:I just note that they are happening and that's all. Ramana > > would concur with this and so would Lakshmana Swamy, for > > consciousness has to 'merge' in the spiritual heart. Sahasrara is > > part of manifestation, and everything is Kundalini or Universal > > Mind anyway. So why not bypass the experiences and go straight to > > the Spiritual Heart or Moksha? > > > > What people call K is actually the movements of prana, probably > in > > a cleansing fashion. The heavier the manifestation the more > > cleansing was needed hahaahh.....ONS..Tony. > > > > devi: i know, you think most people claiming to have kundilini > > experiences are just having *prana* move around..when i first read > > you saying that maybe a year ago i thought about what the > > differences are..my experience was definitly kundilini i felt it > go > > up and down my spine and then shooting out the top of my head and > > filling a darkened room with light..after that i was in i think > > whats called savikalpa samadhi...i was extatic, i was seeing > saints > > and talking to God...there was still that separation though, > > thinking/feeling God was *other*...but that only lasted 3 weeks > and > > then i realized the Self..... > > > > so to me realizing the Self IS merging in the spiritual heart..but > > is that liberation....i think not... > > > > why not bypass that expereince? haha... > > > > alot of people get realized and they don't know all the ins and > outs > > of self-realization, they get there with their eyes closed so to > > speak...i feel fortunate that i've had so may beautiful > > expereinces...(those lesser samadhis).... > > > > i will probably be able to help people with their sadhana someday, > > god willing! > > > > i know that you don't pray to God but do you pray to your atman to > > reveal the truth to you.? > > Namaste.D, > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I use > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences when > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K without > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so spiritual > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's which I > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. Where are you gonna keep all those experiences after you die? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , douglas cobb <chefboy2160> wrote: > > --- Judi Rhodes <judirhodes@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , > > " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Harsha > > wrote: > > > > > You exist. You are aware that you exist. > > Abiding in this > > awareness > > > > as > > > > > awareness is the practice. Looking within with > > awareness at > > one's > > > > own > > > > > existence is self-inquiry. There is no higher > > meditation than > > this > > > > self > > > > > existent awareness. This practice itself > > merges in the goal and > > > > that is > > > > > Self-Realization or Self-Recognition. Sri > > Ramana said to Paul > > > > Brunton > > > > > that the practice of the Sadhaka is the state > > of the Siddha. It > > is > > > > all > > > > > an open secret and crystal clear. Everything > > is transparent as > > > > existing > > > > > and subsiding in awareness. > > > > > > > > > > Know That by which all else is known! > > > > > > > > > > Love to all > > > > Harsha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /join > > > > > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > tony: These are all experiences and the 'search/desire for > > experiences'. I find in my experience that any so called Kundalini > > experiences are not leading to enlightenment. > > > > > > tony:I just note that they are happening and that's all. Ramana > > would concur with this and so would Lakshmana Swamy, for > > consciousness has to 'merge' in the spiritual heart. Sahasrara is > > part of manifestation, and everything is Kundalini or Universal > > Mind anyway. So why not bypass the experiences and go straight to > > the Spiritual Heart or Moksha? > > > > What people call K is actually the movements of prana, probably > in > > a cleansing fashion. The heavier the manifestation the more > > cleansing was needed hahaahh.....ONS..Tony. > > > > devi: i know, you think most people claiming to have kundilini > > experiences are just having *prana* move around..when i first read > > you saying that maybe a year ago i thought about what the > > differences are..my experience was definitly kundilini i felt it > go > > up and down my spine and then shooting out the top of my head and > > filling a darkened room with light..after that i was in i think > > whats called savikalpa samadhi...i was extatic, i was seeing > saints > > and talking to God...there was still that separation though, > > thinking/feeling God was *other*...but that only lasted 3 weeks > and > > then i realized the Self..... > > > > so to me realizing the Self IS merging in the spiritual heart..but > > is that liberation....i think not... > > > > why not bypass that expereince? haha... > > > > alot of people get realized and they don't know all the ins and > outs > > of self-realization, they get there with their eyes closed so to > > speak...i feel fortunate that i've had so may beautiful > > expereinces...(those lesser samadhis).... > > > > i will probably be able to help people with their sadhana someday, > > god willing! > > > > i know that you don't pray to God but do you pray to your atman to > > reveal the truth to you.? > > Namaste.D, > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I use > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences when > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K without > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so spiritual > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's which I > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. devi: did you think that sarada devi was liberated? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 > > > Namaste.D, > > > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I > use > > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only > > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences > when > > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. > > > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K without > > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so > spiritual > > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's which > I > > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. > > devi: did you think that sarada devi was liberated? Namaste, Only a Mukta can recognise another Mukta, but perhaps she was. It is not necessary to be completely realised to sound so. For what is talking is a purified or almost purified vijnanamayakosa. IMO....ONS...Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste.D, > > > > > > > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I > > > use > > > > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > > > > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only > > > > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences > > > when > > > > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. > > > > > > > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K > > without > > > > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so > > > spiritual > > > > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's > > which > > > I > > > > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. > > > > > > devi: did you think that sarada devi was liberated? > > > > Namaste, > > > > Only a Mukta can recognise another Mukta, but perhaps she was. It is > > not necessary to be completely realised to sound so. For what is > > talking is a purified or almost purified vijnanamayakosa. > > IMO....ONS...Tony. > > It is the belief that there exists a hierarchy within the meat monkeys...that keeps one mired within the dream. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > > > > Namaste.D, > > > > > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. I > > use > > > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > > > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is only > > > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar experiences > > when > > > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc etc. > > > > > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K > without > > > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so > > spiritual > > > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's > which > > I > > > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. > > > > devi: did you think that sarada devi was liberated? > > Namaste, > > Only a Mukta can recognise another Mukta, but perhaps she was. It is > not necessary to be completely realised to sound so. For what is > talking is a purified or almost purified vijnanamayakosa. > IMO....ONS...Tony. devi: around my guru sometimes his close disciples would answer questions about yoga and i used to really wonder if they were realized..then durga came along and i realized that the knowledge was there just not the realization....and so it might be with those disciples of my guru...durga is good.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2005 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no right way to talk about being just > as > > there is no wrong way,it just is and all this > useless > > prattle is nothing more than a distraction.Im > right > > and you are wrong,its this and not that,my teacher > is > > better than yours, yada yada yada.No human has the > > same background as another so each and every > > description or story is going to be different. > > Its realy funny to watch how people on this board > are > > so infatuated by there knowledge and how they can > > realy lash out at those who dont know anything. > > I think Jesus said to remove the shit from your > own > > eye before you attempt to remove the speck from > your > > neighbors. > > Oh and by the way,not knowing anything is realy > > cool......................................... > > Cobb > > > Hi Doug, > > If one partakes of conversation like this, which > serves as it does or > doesn't, or both, or neither, the expression or > response to it > usually falls into the same pattern as that which > precedes it. The > response is formed in reaction and relation to the > stimulating > response focused on. If it is one of " judgement, " > than all following > responses will express either indirect or direct > support for the > " judged, " expressions which is " judgment " to > non-supporters (so there) > or direct or indirect " judgment " of one kind or > another as done above > and here. One could of course good escape the > pattern by responding > outside the pattern. For example, > > " Fuji apples are the da bomb! " > > Love > > Love > > This has nothing to do with anything said > previously, it is just a > distraction and probably will be ignored. > > Or the whole thing can be ignored and it will burn > itself eventually > out as do all thoughts that arise and fall. > > There may be an intention not to judge. However, > language is always > dialogically formed, that is, all words are formed > in relation to > others and contain the patterns found within in > order to maintain > sense and meaning. So there is no objective isolated > speaker. Only > silence and witness allows that and then there are > no words, no response. > > There is no escaping dialogism in conversation > unless one chooses to > be fully schizophrenic or to converse outside > meaning structures. Do > you feel judged, Douglas? Absolutely none intended > and it may sound > that way because of dialogism. But, just talking on > the dialogism of > language, speech and conversation and addressing it > to === message truncated === Lewis Well said amigo.That is also why language sometimes incorperates physical gestures.Who knows. I was just sticking up for the original poster. I realy find it all quite amusing to be honest with you.Have a nice day, Doug.................. Mail Mobile Take Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile./learn/mail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , douglas cobb <chefboy2160> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no right way to talk about being just > > as > > > there is no wrong way,it just is and all this > > useless > > > prattle is nothing more than a distraction.Im > > right > > > and you are wrong,its this and not that,my teacher > > is > > > better than yours, yada yada yada.No human has the > > > same background as another so each and every > > > description or story is going to be different. > > > Its realy funny to watch how people on this board > > are > > > so infatuated by there knowledge and how they can > > > realy lash out at those who dont know anything. > > > I think Jesus said to remove the shit from your > > own > > > eye before you attempt to remove the speck from > > your > > > neighbors. > > > Oh and by the way,not knowing anything is realy > > > cool......................................... > > > Cobb > > > > > > Hi Doug, > > > > If one partakes of conversation like this, which > > serves as it does or > > doesn't, or both, or neither, the expression or > > response to it > > usually falls into the same pattern as that which > > precedes it. The > > response is formed in reaction and relation to the > > stimulating > > response focused on. If it is one of " judgement, " > > than all following > > responses will express either indirect or direct > > support for the > > " judged, " expressions which is " judgment " to > > non-supporters (so there) > > or direct or indirect " judgment " of one kind or > > another as done above > > and here. One could of course good escape the > > pattern by responding > > outside the pattern. For example, > > > > " Fuji apples are the da bomb! " > > > > Love > > > > Love > > > > This has nothing to do with anything said > > previously, it is just a > > distraction and probably will be ignored. > > > > Or the whole thing can be ignored and it will burn > > itself eventually > > out as do all thoughts that arise and fall. > > > > There may be an intention not to judge. However, > > language is always > > dialogically formed, that is, all words are formed > > in relation to > > others and contain the patterns found within in > > order to maintain > > sense and meaning. So there is no objective isolated > > speaker. Only > > silence and witness allows that and then there are > > no words, no response. > > > > There is no escaping dialogism in conversation > > unless one chooses to > > be fully schizophrenic or to converse outside > > meaning structures. Do > > you feel judged, Douglas? Absolutely none intended > > and it may sound > > that way because of dialogism. But, just talking on > > the dialogism of > > language, speech and conversation and addressing it > > to > === message truncated === > > Lewis > > Well said amigo.That is also why language sometimes > incorperates physical gestures.Who knows. > I was just sticking up for the original poster. > I realy find it all quite amusing to be honest with > you.Have a nice day, > Doug.................. Sì, il mio amico. La lingua ci rende uno. Ciò è vita. Amore, Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 5, 2005 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste.D, > > > > > > > > Prayer makes the lower self feel more comfortable that's all. > I > > > use > > > > mantras and prayers as a method of concentration prior to > > > > meditation. What people call K is actually Prana, there is > only > > > > prana and karma in the universe.IMHO. I had similar > experiences > > > when > > > > I first started meditating, surges that knocked me over etc > etc. > > > > > > > > Sarada Devi indicates that Japa will raise the so called K > > without > > > > great fuss. It is really the purification of the kosas so > > > spiritual > > > > awareness can shine. Your experiences sound like Ammachi's > > which > > > I > > > > guess is Savikalpa..........ONS...Tony. > > > > > > devi: did you think that sarada devi was liberated? > > > > Namaste, > > > > Only a Mukta can recognise another Mukta, but perhaps she was. It > is > > not necessary to be completely realised to sound so. For what is > > talking is a purified or almost purified vijnanamayakosa. > > IMO....ONS...Tony. > > devi: around my guru sometimes his close disciples would answer > questions about yoga and i used to really wonder if they were > realized..then durga came along and i realized that the knowledge > was there just not the realization....and so it might be with those > disciples of my guru...durga is good.... or...could it possibly be that the beliefs espoused through durga.....just happen to agree with your own picture of reality? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
