Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Toomb, I too was pondering about an alternative to a society no longer resulting from a child's socialisation, but everything which came into my mind was just to romantic - including your idea. Werner Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi Fleming, > > > > There is nothing to disagree, I absolutely go with you. > > > > When one sees that society is the result of socialisation which is a > > child's efforts to overcome isolation and these efforts are to get > > accepted, to get comforted, to get approval etc, then in addition one > > sees society mainly is children playing in a sandpit having fun and > > taking away each other's toys with all those resulting fights and > > violence. > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " yogidahl2000 " > > <Dahl_flemming@h...> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Fleming, > > > > > > > > Thanks for translating yout former reply into a language an old > > > man > > > > can understand. > > > > > > > > You are so right, once that feeling of isolation has dissolved > > > your > > > > circles within you can move will increase tremendously. > > > > > > > > There is one point left which we maybe could go on on discussing: > > > Is > > > > isolation really a myth ? Is fear a myth, or joy, or falling in > > > love ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Hi Werner! > > > Yes,we could discuss that,if Isolation is a myth?? > > > My take on it,my innermost feeling about this,would be: > > > Fear,Joy and falling in love are reactions of the mind,they > > > are happenings within and for the mind,these are natural > > > feelings (even if Fear is complicated,J.Krishnamurti would > > > know) > > > > > > Isolation,on the other hand,is on a different level,isolation > > > is not a genuine feeling,rather > > > it's part of a belief system,cultural heritage,and really it's a > > > criminal sociopath attitude,but it's constantly being > > > legitimated by the surrounding society > > > The uncritical belief in Isolation,as a factual existential > > > order of things- this belief gives power to the rising > > > FEELING of being isolated,it's nothing but a bad habit > > > yet when thoroughly ingrained,the reality of this " feeling " > > > is never being doubted,thus one is perpetuating suffering > > > Well,that's how I see it – But please feel free to disagree! > > > Vibes, > > > Flemming > > > > What if you saw " society " as a vast menemonic vibration emerging impersonally from within the arisen I amness? > > > > > Boy........wouldn't THAT be sumthin? > > > > > toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " yogidahl2000 " <Dahl_flemming@h...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Hi Fleming, > > > > Thanks for translating yout former reply into a language an old > man > > can understand. > > > > You are so right, once that feeling of isolation has dissolved > your > > circles within you can move will increase tremendously. > > > > There is one point left which we maybe could go on on discussing: > Is > > isolation really a myth ? Is fear a myth, or joy, or falling in > love ? > > > > Werner > > Hi Werner! > Yes,we could discuss that,if Isolation is a myth?? > My take on it,my innermost feeling about this,would be: > Fear,Joy and falling in love are reactions of the mind,they > are happenings within and for the mind,these are natural > feelings (even if Fear is complicated,J.Krishnamurti would > know) > > Isolation,on the other hand,is on a different level,isolation > is not a genuine feeling,rather > it's part of a belief system,cultural heritage,and really it's a > criminal sociopath attitude,but it's constantly being > legitimated by the surrounding society > The uncritical belief in Isolation,as a factual existential > order of things- this belief gives power to the rising > FEELING of being isolated,it's nothing but a bad habit > yet when thoroughly ingrained,the reality of this " feeling " > is never being doubted,thus one is perpetuating suffering > Well,that's how I see it – But please feel free to disagree! > Vibes, > Flemming Hey...........I have some opinions about your opinions......about ideas. ......I'll have to admit that they are all based on stuff that I have kinda picked up over the years......from my parents.....and teachers.....and the television. .......and that most of them are kind self-biased..... There kinda long.....and convaluted.......but if you would like to hear them..........I have the entire day off. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Toomb, > > I too was pondering about an alternative to a society no longer > resulting from a child's socialisation, but everything which came > into my mind was just to romantic - including your idea. > > Werner Well then..........perhaps you are expecting too much from ideas......about ideas. toombaru > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > Hi Fleming, > > > > > > There is nothing to disagree, I absolutely go with you. > > > > > > When one sees that society is the result of socialisation which > is a > > > child's efforts to overcome isolation and these efforts are to > get > > > accepted, to get comforted, to get approval etc, then in addition > one > > > sees society mainly is children playing in a sandpit having fun > and > > > taking away each other's toys with all those resulting fights and > > > violence. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " yogidahl2000 " > > > <Dahl_flemming@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Fleming, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for translating yout former reply into a language an > old > > > > man > > > > > can understand. > > > > > > > > > > You are so right, once that feeling of isolation has > dissolved > > > > your > > > > > circles within you can move will increase tremendously. > > > > > > > > > > There is one point left which we maybe could go on on > discussing: > > > > Is > > > > > isolation really a myth ? Is fear a myth, or joy, or falling > in > > > > love ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Hi Werner! > > > > Yes,we could discuss that,if Isolation is a myth?? > > > > My take on it,my innermost feeling about this,would be: > > > > Fear,Joy and falling in love are reactions of the mind,they > > > > are happenings within and for the mind,these are natural > > > > feelings (even if Fear is complicated,J.Krishnamurti would > > > > know) > > > > > > > > Isolation,on the other hand,is on a different level,isolation > > > > is not a genuine feeling,rather > > > > it's part of a belief system,cultural heritage,and really it's a > > > > criminal sociopath attitude,but it's constantly being > > > > legitimated by the surrounding society > > > > The uncritical belief in Isolation,as a factual existential > > > > order of things- this belief gives power to the rising > > > > FEELING of being isolated,it's nothing but a bad habit > > > > yet when thoroughly ingrained,the reality of this " feeling " > > > > is never being doubted,thus one is perpetuating suffering > > > > Well,that's how I see it – But please feel free to disagree! > > > > Vibes, > > > > Flemming > > > > > > > > What if you saw " society " as a vast mnemonic vibration emerging > impersonally from within the arisen I amness? > > > > > > > > > > Boy........wouldn't THAT be sumthin? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > sam_t_7 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:50 PM > Re: When Judi Bounced Anna - Werner > > >~~~~~~ >sorry Sam, we're on page 2. >it's all theatre, it's all love, it is whatever one 'thinks it is' until One is Being it All... >(which we already always Are, just our thinking we aren't keeps us from Knowing That:)))) >love is all there is, Anna sam:<<<<Even when your losing your inherent and natural Self to your love addiction>>> >when one loses self and IS the inherent Self, love is at long last experienced, and This Love, I assure you is not " addiction " . >It must be experienced as You AND the Universe/You AS the Universe. >See for yourself, this is Your Life's Invitation, Sam... >anna Sam: Written/verbal communication is not my strong suit, to be sure. I've experienced love and it's many shades and colors. Inside out and upside down and sideways. Love as yummy and delicious goo that fills me up and love as tough and hard as nails and everything in between. But have you entered into the void? This is Your Life's Invitation Anna.... Al is on page one where individuated identity is all there is and he's caught a glimpse of page 2 which has blown his mind. You're on page 2 where love is all there is, as ALL. Not willing to flip the page over for the mere thought of that blows your mind and you simply refuse to entertain the idea that there is anything beyond page 2, because, well, page 2 is " All " . You're in good company here with Adaithy Coming, Stephen and Odysseus who is off in pursuit of attaining the perfect love/bliss/All/nirvana sensation. Then there's page 3. That's where one flips the page and notices it's blank – a void. There's No thing there, no emotions, not even a tingle of love, hate or anything in between. On this page one gets fascinated with the topic of No thing as All and could chat about it endlessly. That would be your Pete's, your Werners, Toombaru, and Judi. Well, judi kind of vascillates around page 2 and page 3 but she's a little confused right now so that makes her a little difficult to know what page she's on at any given time since even she doesn't really know half the time. (she just likes to argue against page 2 really, so she's essentially on page 2 ½ I guess). Then there's page 4. That's where it's All and No thing at all and everything/nothing/anything in between. The endless debate of it's illusory nature is irrelevent on page 4 as that part of the plot was covered at the end of page 3. But don't go onto page 4 if page 3 blows your mind or your entire system will shortcircuit on page 4 and you'll quickly be cutting your throat to get a money back exchange on that lousy book which you can now neither read nor put down. When you give up the notion of everything and nothing, and include the notion of everything and nothing, you have the twist which is page 4. (yes Gary/Mr. E, like the chubby checker twist) The void, and one step back from it with all it's various ranges of display, is all I've known. Ideas is what drives the car. Void is the end of the road. Emotions/love etc., are the flowers and view along the way. Maybe it's just a short pamphlet and not a book at all. As for me, I just be – that is enough. I don't know if there's anything beyond page 4. That page is still being held up with my publisher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Yeah Toomb, First show me your wine cellar and then I will decide to visit you and listent to all your stuff. Werner Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " yogidahl2000 " <Dahl_flemming@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Hi Fleming, > > > > > > Thanks for translating yout former reply into a language an old > > man > > > can understand. > > > > > > You are so right, once that feeling of isolation has dissolved > > your > > > circles within you can move will increase tremendously. > > > > > > There is one point left which we maybe could go on on discussing: > > Is > > > isolation really a myth ? Is fear a myth, or joy, or falling in > > love ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > Hi Werner! > > Yes,we could discuss that,if Isolation is a myth?? > > My take on it,my innermost feeling about this,would be: > > Fear,Joy and falling in love are reactions of the mind,they > > are happenings within and for the mind,these are natural > > feelings (even if Fear is complicated,J.Krishnamurti would > > know) > > > > Isolation,on the other hand,is on a different level,isolation > > is not a genuine feeling,rather > > it's part of a belief system,cultural heritage,and really it's a > > criminal sociopath attitude,but it's constantly being > > legitimated by the surrounding society > > The uncritical belief in Isolation,as a factual existential > > order of things- this belief gives power to the rising > > FEELING of being isolated,it's nothing but a bad habit > > yet when thoroughly ingrained,the reality of this " feeling " > > is never being doubted,thus one is perpetuating suffering > > Well,that's how I see it – But please feel free to disagree! > > Vibes, > > Flemming > > > > > > Hey...........I have some opinions about your opinions......about ideas. > > > .....I'll have to admit that they are all based on stuff that I have kinda picked up over the years......from my parents.....and teachers.....and the television. > > > ......and that most of them are kind self-biased..... > > > > There kinda long.....and convaluted.......but > if you would like to hear > them..........I have the entire day off. > > > toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 - sam_t_7 Nisargadatta Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:13 AM Re: When Judi Bounced Anna Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > sam_t_7 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:50 PM > Re: When Judi Bounced Anna - Werner > > >~~~~~~ >sorry Sam, we're on page 2. >it's all theatre, it's all love, it is whatever one 'thinks it is' until One is Being it All... >(which we already always Are, just our thinking we aren't keeps us from Knowing That:)))) >love is all there is, Anna sam:<<<<Even when your losing your inherent and natural Self to your love addiction>>> >when one loses self and IS the inherent Self, love is at long last experienced, and This Love, I assure you is not " addiction " . >It must be experienced as You AND the Universe/You AS the Universe. >See for yourself, this is Your Life's Invitation, Sam... >anna Sam: Written/verbal communication is not my strong suit, to be sure. I've experienced love and it's many shades and colors. Inside out and upside down and sideways. Love as yummy and delicious goo that fills me up and love as tough and hard as nails and everything in between. But have you entered into the void? This is Your Life's Invitation Anna.... Al is on page one where individuated identity is all there is and he's caught a glimpse of page 2 which has blown his mind. You're on page 2 where love is all there is, as ALL. Not willing to flip the page over for the mere thought of that blows your mind and you simply refuse to entertain the idea that there is anything beyond page 2, because, well, page 2 is " All " . You're in good company here with Adaithy Coming, Stephen and Odysseus who is off in pursuit of attaining the perfect love/bliss/All/nirvana sensation. Then there's page 3. That's where one flips the page and notices it's blank - a void. There's No thing there, no emotions, not even a tingle of love, hate or anything in between. On this page one gets fascinated with the topic of No thing as All and could chat about it endlessly. That would be your Pete's, your Werners, Toombaru, and Judi. Well, judi kind of vascillates around page 2 and page 3 but she's a little confused right now so that makes her a little difficult to know what page she's on at any given time since even she doesn't really know half the time. (she just likes to argue against page 2 really, so she's essentially on page 2 ½ I guess). Then there's page 4. That's where it's All and No thing at all and everything/nothing/anything in between. The endless debate of it's illusory nature is irrelevent on page 4 as that part of the plot was covered at the end of page 3. But don't go onto page 4 if page 3 blows your mind or your entire system will shortcircuit on page 4 and you'll quickly be cutting your throat to get a money back exchange on that lousy book which you can now neither read nor put down. When you give up the notion of everything and nothing, and include the notion of everything and nothing, you have the twist which is page 4. (yes Gary/Mr. E, like the chubby checker twist) The void, and one step back from it with all it's various ranges of display, is all I've known. Ideas is what drives the car. Void is the end of the road. Emotions/love etc., are the flowers and view along the way. Maybe it's just a short pamphlet and not a book at all. As for me, I just be - that is enough. I don't know if there's anything beyond page 4. That page is still being held up with my publisher. Yes, Sam, I have seen this Void. It is the void left when " anna " was seen. Now the void is seeing " anna' and now the emptiness/fullnes of that Seeing is fullfilling itself as This. In the the beginning, Anna, in the middle I am in the end I am This. I Am This changes every moment... It is the Unknown God... see, we do speak the same language:)) So page 5, must be what you and i do...together. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > sam_t_7 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:50 PM > > Re: When Judi Bounced Anna - Werner > > > > > >~~~~~~ > >sorry Sam, we're on page 2. > > >it's all theatre, it's all love, it is whatever one 'thinks it is' > until One > is > Being it All... > > >(which we already always Are, just our thinking we aren't keeps us > from > Knowing That:)))) > > >love is all there is, > Anna > > > sam:<<<<Even when your > losing your inherent and natural Self to your love addiction>>> > > > >when one loses self and IS the inherent Self, love is at long last > experienced, and This Love, I assure you is not " addiction " . > > >It must be experienced as You AND > the Universe/You AS the Universe. > > >See for yourself, this is Your Life's Invitation, Sam... > >anna > > > Sam: Written/verbal communication is not my strong suit, to be sure. > I've experienced love and it's many shades and colors. Inside out > and upside down and sideways. Love as yummy and delicious goo that > fills me up and love as tough and hard as nails and everything in > between. > > But have you entered into the void? This is Your Life's Invitation > Anna.... > > Al is on page one where individuated identity is all there is and > he's caught a glimpse of page 2 which has blown his mind. > > You're on page 2 where love is all there is, as ALL. Not willing to > flip the page over for the mere thought of that blows your mind and > you simply refuse to entertain the idea that there is anything > beyond page 2, because, well, page 2 is " All " . You're in good > company here with Adaithy Coming, Stephen and Odysseus who is off in > pursuit of attaining the perfect love/bliss/All/nirvana sensation. > > Then there's page 3. That's where one flips the page and notices > it's blank – a void. There's No thing there, no emotions, not even > a tingle of love, hate or anything in between. On this page one > gets fascinated with the topic of No thing as All and could chat > about it endlessly. That would be your Pete's, your Werners, > Toombaru, and Judi. Well, judi kind of vascillates around page 2 > and page 3 but she's a little confused right now so that makes her a > little difficult to know what page she's on at any given time since > even she doesn't really know half the time. (she just likes to > argue against page 2 really, so she's essentially on page 2 ½ I > guess). > > Then there's page 4. That's where it's All and No thing at all and > everything/nothing/anything in between. The endless debate of it's > illusory nature is irrelevent on page 4 as that part of the plot was > covered at the end of page 3. But don't go onto page 4 if page 3 > blows your mind or your entire system will shortcircuit on page 4 > and you'll quickly be cutting your throat to get a money back > exchange on that lousy book which you can now neither read nor put > down. When you give up the notion of everything and nothing, and > include the notion of everything and nothing, you have the twist > which is page 4. (yes Gary/Mr. E, like the chubby checker twist) > > > The void, and one step back from it with all it's various ranges of > display, is all I've known. Ideas is what drives the car. Void is > the end of the road. Emotions/love etc., are the flowers and view > along the way. Maybe it's just a short pamphlet and not a book at > all. As for me, I just be – that is enough. I don't know if > there's anything beyond page 4. That page is still being held up > with my publisher. Thought researchers have discovered a most peculiar coincidental anomaly occurs whenever a theoretical spiritual hiearchy is postulated that somehow always finds the one postulatng.....in the top floor of the ideo-illogical structure. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
