Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Thursday, March 24, 2005 5:23 PM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:48 PM > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is where I am not so certain. I believe that ultimately is is > > > > infinite intelligence that makes this manifested world > possible. Every > > > > particle is connected to every other particle in the universe. > If you > > > > want to change the universe you must know how to change the > _entire_ > > > > universe. No event happens in isolation. Kosmos is an > interconnected > > > > > > what is an " event " ? when did it start and end? what were the > spatial > > > limits for it? your memory thinks of name-form and causality. > > > > > > these are the traps of name and form. since the boundaries are > in the > > > mind, the limits of the effects are also in the mind. > > > > > > there is the thing about scale. most likely you cannot affect the > > > faraway galaxies in any measureable way - maybe for your good. > > > > Our inability to trace an origin for any separate event is an evidence > > for the interconnected nature of reality. This means also that we > > cannot trace the origin of free will. Everything is one single event, > > which is not even an event. Reality just _is_. > > > > > > > > > wholeness. Limited intelligence has no chance of changing > _anything_. > > > > > > these are mental models. they will just spin around. > > > > Can we trace back to the origin of any event? Does limited > > intelligence act as a causeless cause? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the One Will is that you have free will and with that free will, > > love > > > > > arise naturally in your heart. > > > > > > > > But then we are still in the belief of separation. The idea of not > > > > > > you as a person are an expression of the infinite. you are separate > > > and non-separate. > > > > Yes, and some sages claim to have lost the sense of separation. Maybe > > that is not such big step after all. Just to recognize that the > > separation is only on the surface of things. > > > > > > > > > > > > nice belief. But the next step is more spooky: If all is > Oneness then > > > > I am all alone! And that is the scary part. The third step is to > > > > recognize thoughts and ideas as " me, yet not me " . I am not talking > > > > about supression here, but rather a direct feeling of Maya as > Maya. > > > > > > > > > > you are worrying about crossing the bridge that has not arrived yet. > > > > > > your evolution is the evolution of the whole. when the drop is ready > > > the ocean will appear. > > > > > > these questions do not get resolved. they just get washed away as > > > irrelevant. > > > > And then there is hopefully clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > clarity is seeing what is... > > > > anything else is part and parcel of humanistic/separatist thinking. > > > > having said that, there are still alpha and omega 'experiences' if > you will. > > > > a. > > > > I found this interesting book description of what our experiences are: > > " Never before has a book explained with such clarity why 'physical' > reality is merely an illusion that only exists in our brain. > > Why the 'world' is a virtual reality game that only exists because we > believe it does. > > Fantastic? Sure it is. > > But David Icke's information, presented in a way that everyone can > understand, is a life-changing exposure of both the illusion we > believe to be 'real' and the way this illusion is generated and > manipulated to imprison us in a false reality. > > Icke explains how we 'live'in a 'holographic internet' in that our > brains are connected to a central 'computer' that feeds us the same > collective reality that we decode from waveforms and electrical > signals into the holographic 3D 'world' that we all think we see. > > As Icke points out, the various disciplines of mainstream science have > already discovered much of this information, but the parts have never > been put together. They have focussed on the twigs and not seen the > forest because the forces manipulating global society have no wish for > us to know the truth that will set us free. " > > http://www.bridgeoflove.com/ > > The above text is about the book " Infinite Love is the Only Truth > _Everything_ Else is Illusion " by David Icke. Mad as his theories may > seem, I find this particular description to be very similar to my idea > of Maya. Physical reality is not solid and has no substance other than > what the One Consciousness makes it appear to have. Interestingly, > this view is also similar to Nisargadatta's description of reality. > > al. > > I will delve further into this. > > Have you seen the film " Matrix " ? If not, get thee to video store and rent, > some interesting stuff. > > Another interesting observation: I belong to many 'spiritually' oriented groups. There is a network of nonduality.....arriving in perfect 'time' and each seems to address what the other either started or left off. This is absolutely fascinating and one can not dismiss the perfection.... > > Consciousness is comprised of every element 'in' consciousness existing in/as that very self-sameness. > > The consciousness of a tree, exists as a tree with the qualities of 'treeness'. etc. 'Inside' the matrix/virtual reality. > > a. > I have the Matrix collection on DVD, the one where Ken Wilber and Dr. Cornel West are commenting on the films. Really interesting stuff. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > what is an " event " ? when did it start and end? what were the spatial > > limits for it? your memory thinks of name-form and causality. > > > > these are the traps of name and form. since the boundaries are in the > > mind, the limits of the effects are also in the mind. > > > > there is the thing about scale. most likely you cannot affect the > > faraway galaxies in any measureable way - maybe for your good. > > Our inability to trace an origin for any separate event is an evidence > for the interconnected nature of reality. This means also that we > cannot trace the origin of free will. Everything is one single event, > which is not even an event. Reality just _is_. > IMO, this means either that there is no free will, or that it is a very privileged state where one is able to change the state of the universe, like god. in pop physics the universe branches everytime we make a choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > what is an " event " ? when did it start and end? what were the spatial > > > limits for it? your memory thinks of name-form and causality. > > > > > > these are the traps of name and form. since the boundaries are in the > > > mind, the limits of the effects are also in the mind. > > > > > > there is the thing about scale. most likely you cannot affect the > > > faraway galaxies in any measureable way - maybe for your good. > > > > Our inability to trace an origin for any separate event is an evidence > > for the interconnected nature of reality. This means also that we > > cannot trace the origin of free will. Everything is one single event, > > which is not even an event. Reality just _is_. > > > > IMO, this means either that there is no free will, or that it is a > very privileged state where one is able to change the state of the > universe, like god. > > in pop physics the universe branches everytime we make a choice. But you can't branch alone as a separate entity. With every branch you take, you have to take all the particles in the universe with you. That's a pretty heavy task. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > what is an " event " ? when did it start and end? what were the > spatial > > > > limits for it? your memory thinks of name-form and causality. > > > > > > > > these are the traps of name and form. since the boundaries are > in the > > > > mind, the limits of the effects are also in the mind. > > > > > > > > there is the thing about scale. most likely you cannot affect the > > > > faraway galaxies in any measureable way - maybe for your good. > > > > > > Our inability to trace an origin for any separate event is an evidence > > > for the interconnected nature of reality. This means also that we > > > cannot trace the origin of free will. Everything is one single event, > > > which is not even an event. Reality just _is_. > > > > > > > IMO, this means either that there is no free will, or that it is a > > very privileged state where one is able to change the state of the > > universe, like god. > > > > in pop physics the universe branches everytime we make a choice. > > But you can't branch alone as a separate entity. With every branch you > take, you have to take all the particles in the universe with you. > That's a pretty heavy task. > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a _big_ boat and we affect each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 26, 2005 -- > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > _big_ boat and we affect each other. In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM Re: Thoughtless state -- > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > _big_ boat and we affect each other. In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? toombaru i am, I am not a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > -- > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > toombaru > > i am, I am not > > a. > > > No Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 AM Re: Thoughtless state Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > -- > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > toombaru > > i am, I am not > > a. > > > No ** Yes (yes always includes a/the 'No') a. If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 AM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > toombaru2004 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > -- > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > i am, I am not > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > No > > The questiion was about the relative " maturity " of thoughts concerning things spiritual. ......ultimately about the relative realness of conceptual " objects " . Is Cinderella more real then Snow White? ....is any thought about something that does not exist more or less " mature " then any other statement? The statement " I am " or I am not " are speculations of a pseudo-entity.....out of which the dream of separation emerges and spins ......for a while. toombaru > > > > > ** > > > > Yes > > (yes always includes a/the 'No') > > > a. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:01 AM Re: Thoughtless state Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 AM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > toombaru2004 > > Nisargadatta > > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > -- > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > i am, I am not > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > No > > The questiion was about the relative " maturity " of thoughts concerning things spiritual. .....ultimately about the relative realness of conceptual " objects " . Is Cinderella more real then Snow White? ...is any thought about something that does not exist more or less " mature " then any other statement? The statement " I am " or I am not " are speculations of a pseudo-entity.....out of which the dream of separation emerges and spins ......for a while. toombaru toombaru is an alternative to anna as anna is an alternative to toombaru identities are 'switched' at birth, upon reflection and in the seeing of so-called identities as the identities are so-called Being seen. a. > > > > > ** > > > > Yes > > (yes always includes a/the 'No') > > > a. > > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:01 AM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > toombaru2004 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 AM > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2004 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > i am, I am not > > > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > The questiion was about the relative " maturity " of thoughts concerning things spiritual. > > .....ultimately about the relative realness of conceptual " objects " . > > > Is Cinderella more real then Snow White? > > ...is any thought about something that does not exist more or less " mature " then any other statement? > > The statement " I am " or I am not " > are speculations of a pseudo-entity.....out of which the dream of separation emerges and spins ......for a while. > > toombaru > > > > toombaru is an alternative to anna > > as anna is an alternative to toombaru > > identities are 'switched' at birth, upon reflection and in the seeing of so-called identities as the identities are so-called Being seen. > > a. Identities are identities..... " They " can no more see " Being " then the " people " in your dream last night can see " you " . toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:56 AM Re: Thoughtless state Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:01 AM > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > toombaru2004 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:23 AM > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2004 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:22 PM > > > Re: Thoughtless state > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > i am, I am not > > > > > > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > The questiion was about the relative " maturity " of thoughts concerning things spiritual. > > .....ultimately about the relative realness of conceptual " objects " . > > > Is Cinderella more real then Snow White? > > ...is any thought about something that does not exist more or less " mature " then any other statement? > > The statement " I am " or I am not " > are speculations of a pseudo-entity.....out of which the dream of separation emerges and spins ......for a while. > > toombaru > > > > toombaru is an alternative to anna > > as anna is an alternative to toombaru > > identities are 'switched' at birth, upon reflection and in the seeing of so-called identities as the identities are so-called Being seen. > > a. Identities are identities..... " They " can no more see " Being " then the " people " in your dream last night can see " you " . toombaru and, ONCE the identities of stage-presence are seen thru (as there Never Was a stage-presence_ it does not matter 'Who' sees There IS Only SEEING... a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > -- > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > my guiding light is love. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 27, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > -- > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > my guiding light is love. No .....It's not. Your guiding light is self survival. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > -- > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > my guiding light is love. > > > > No .....It's not. > > Your guiding light is self survival. > that is obvious. I exist to satisfy primordial desires, one of which happens to be love. love of existence is natural. what is yours? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my guiding light is love. > > > > > > > > No .....It's not. > > > > Your guiding light is self survival. > > > > that is obvious. I exist to satisfy primordial desires, one of which > happens to be love. love of existence is natural. > > what is yours? The self here...........is not able to get a really good look at itself.....:-) It's always one two hundredth of a second behind its self....LOL It has absolutely no idea what's going on. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. this is a > > > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my guiding light is love. > > > > > > > > > > > > No .....It's not. > > > > > > Your guiding light is self survival. > > > > > > > that is obvious. I exist to satisfy primordial desires, one of which > > happens to be love. love of existence is natural. > > > > what is yours? > > > > > The self here...........is not able to get a really good look at itself.....:-) > > > > It's always one two hundredth of a second behind its self....LOL > > > It has absolutely no idea what's going on. > how does it know what is going in other people's minds? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > > > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > that's why individual enlightenment is an immature idea. > this is a > > > > > > > _big_ boat and we affect each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In any matter spiritual......can you think of a " mature " idea? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my guiding light is love. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No .....It's not. > > > > > > > > Your guiding light is self survival. > > > > > > > > > > that is obvious. I exist to satisfy primordial desires, one of which > > > happens to be love. love of existence is natural. > > > > > > what is yours? > > > > > > > > > > The self here...........is not able to get a really good look at > itself.....:-) > > > > > > > > It's always one two hundredth of a second behind its self....LOL > > > > > > It has absolutely no idea what's going on. > > > > how does it know what is going in other people's minds? Mind is a river.......that flows into itself. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
