Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " > <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " > > <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > It's easy to change the future. Just think it > differently. )))) > > > > > > G.R.R.: I totally agree with you Al. I guess I'm smokin what > > > you're smokin. (smile) > > > To acknowledge this is toooo simple. People want something far > > > more complicated, like say, the future doesn't exist or nothing > is > > > real, etc. etc. etc. Intense distractions that ultimately move > > them > > > away from simplicity. Choice, change and experience so > > > Source/Origin can have experience wherewith to " know " Itself or > > it's > > > capabilities is far too Non-complex for people to accept. But, > > Al, > > > you have reached what all the Masters finally understand. And > > then > > > they toss all the endless debate and discussion and questions > > about > > > reality vs non-reality out the window and go on to the task of > > > experiencing. If anyone actually understands that they can > think > > > and choose differently then they release the ego/victim helpless > > > role and become <gasp> the master, and for all of people's talk, > > in > > > the end most don't really want it. It's toooooooo simple. > They'd > > > rather have complicated mind stuff. Change, think, choose --> > > that's > > > how this planet earth was brought into experience. And y'all > > think > > > the laws that hold it and choose the laws that hold it into > motion > > > otherwise it would vanish. Reality then doesn't become the > > pounding > > > question,,,but rather,,,experience in master state. And isn't > > that > > > why most of the people are " seeking " ? To become the guru, self- > > > realization, and enlightened? They want to master their > > > experience. The situation is that you've put out so much > > > intellectual mind stuff that when you do hit on a simple truth > > > behind human experience people pass it over already expecting > more > > > of the same. You've thrown out dirt, dirt, dirt and then a > > diamond, > > > so people pass over the diamond responding in habit. > > > > GRR: well, actually you're not really changing the future, you're > > changing the present. > > GRR: And it can be done. It's done all the time. You're a living > testament of the experience irregardless of weather it's an illusion > or a non-illusion. Experience doesn't ask if it's illusion or non- > illusion. It just experiences, which is why you're here > experiencing this dual/non-dual/duel experience. More often this > change/choice/experience is done subconsciously rather than > consciously, but then that's another topic that has been discussed - > conscious vs unconscious. And for those who get hung up on the > endless debate of weather or not the experience is " real " are so > focused on that they forget that they are having a very interesting > experience in the present. Oh....ok........let's change the present....yeah...change the present into something more beneficial. It's soooooo simple.......We're gonna change the present into something that it already isn't...... I'm changin it......I can feel it changing......yup...I think i did it........ toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 3/16/05 6:27:55 PM, cptc@w... writes: > > > > Oh....ok........let's change the present....yeah...change the present into > > something more > > beneficial. > > > > It's soooooo simple.......We're gonna change the present into something that > > it already > > isn't...... > > > > > > I'm changin it......I can feel it changing......yup...I think i did > > it........ > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Now that's funny. I'm laughing inside my present box. Well....since your box is inside of my box....and I have a pretty good handle on changing this present thing........let me know if you need anything. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Seems you smoke to much dope, Anders. > > > > > > > Big W, leave AL alone! > > Can't you see, he's > > just adorable and sweet > > and harmless. ;-) > > > > ~freyja > > > He is harmless.......... only if you see the lunacy of his proposition. > > > > toombaru Let me explain this change of future. The thinking mind creates a future by doing its best to extrapolate the past. Therefore at any given moment the 'true' future for the thinking mind is its best estimations about what the future will be like. Thus, changing this prediction would make it not the best prediction, thereby degrading it from the sanest view to some form of lunacy. In this you are correct toombaru, but there is another possibility, another way to change the future, and that is to keep ones best estimations about the future intact, but loosen up one's clinging to these estimations, to think more softly, in degrees, instead of the mechanical ON/OFF nature the thinking mind often is trapped in. Adapt a fuzzy logic approach instead of binary logic. The first approach to see a degree in thought is to notice that there is a difference between being fully present in the moment and thinking about the future. If you can flow between presence in the moment and thoughts about the future, then you are no longer trapped totally in your own future. Then you have one foot in the present moment and one foot in thinking. And you can gradually flow between (a) 100% presence 0% thought, and (b) 1% presence 99% thought. Choice, then, becomes enhanced with the ability to choose to how large extent I want to experience thought; I can then turn up the volume of thought and also turn down the volume of thought. Right now I lack the capability to adjust the volume knob of thought, it is simply stuck in an ON-mode with a fixed set high volume. :-) /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 17, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 3/16/05 6:27:55 PM, cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > Oh....ok........let's change the present....yeah...change the present into > > > something more > > > beneficial. > > > > > > It's soooooo simple.......We're gonna change the present into something that > > > it already > > > isn't...... > > > > > > > > > I'm changin it......I can feel it changing......yup...I think i did > > > it........ > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Now that's funny. I'm laughing inside my present box. > > > > > Well....since your box is inside of my box....and I have a pretty good handle on changing > this present thing........let me know if you need anything. > > > toombaru G: No, you don't sound like you have a good handle on changing at all. You misunderstand by saying that you're going to change the present into something it already isn't. And, more beneficial is relevent to whether or not you're actually enjoying the experience you now are experiencing in this present. Are you enjoying your experience? If not then change it. You overcomplicate everything. No wonder you think you're in a prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/16/05 6:27:55 PM, cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > > Oh....ok........let's change the present....yeah...change the > present into > > > > something more > > > > beneficial. > > > > > > > > It's soooooo simple.......We're gonna change the present into > something that > > > > it already > > > > isn't...... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm changin it......I can feel it changing......yup...I think > i did > > > > it........ > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Now that's funny. I'm laughing inside my present box. > > > > > > > > > > Well....since your box is inside of my box....and I have a pretty > good handle on changing > > this present thing........let me know if you need anything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > G: No, you don't sound like you have a good handle on changing at > all. You misunderstand by saying that you're going to change the > present into something it already isn't. And, more beneficial is > relevent to whether or not you're actually enjoying the experience > you now are experiencing in this present. The self is never privy to the present.........it knows only of the past....... Are you enjoying your > experience? The life lived through this one ......is as perfect as one can imagine. If not then change it. I have no reason.....and no tools...to change it. You overcomplicate everything. agreed > No wonder you think you're in a prison. All " yous " are in prison. ...........doin time. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 toombaru2004 <cptc wrote: Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 3/16/05 6:27:55 PM, cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > > Oh....ok........let's change the present....yeah...change the > present into > > > > something more > > > > beneficial. > > > > > > > > It's soooooo simple.......We're gonna change the present into > something that > > > > it already > > > > isn't...... > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm changin it......I can feel it changing......yup...I think > i did > > > > it........ > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Now that's funny. I'm laughing inside my present box. > > > > > > > > > > Well....since your box is inside of my box....and I have a pretty > good handle on changing > > this present thing........let me know if you need anything. > > > > > > toombaru > > > G: No, you don't sound like you have a good handle on changing at > all. You misunderstand by saying that you're going to change the > present into something it already isn't. And, more beneficial is > relevent to whether or not you're actually enjoying the experience > you now are experiencing in this present. The self is never privy to the present.........it knows only of the past....... Are you enjoying your > experience? The life lived through this one ......is as perfect as one can imagine. If not then change it. I have no reason.....and no tools...to change it. You overcomplicate everything. agreed > No wonder you think you're in a prison. All " yous " are in prison. ...........doin time. ...TIME....Time for Tea with I and Me, ....Said the One that thought it was Free. (Juss playin folks!) Anyone care to add more lines? BillyW toombaru Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >All " yous " are in prison. >..........doin time. Yes... as long as you believe in such things... S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >All " yous " are in prison. > >..........doin time. > > Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > S. The " you " is the belief in such things. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 T: >All " yous " are in prison. >..........doin time. S: >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... T: >The " you " is the belief in such things. S: Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > T: > >All " yous " are in prison. > >..........doin time. > > S: > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > T: > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > S: > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > S. f. Sometimes the more you try to stop believing in something, the more you can't stop believing in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > T: > >All " yous " are in prison. > >..........doin time. > > S: > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > T: > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > S: > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > S. All beliefs are about things.......all things are within the prison. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > T: > > >All " yous " are in prison. > > >..........doin time. > > > > S: > > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > > > T: > > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > > > S: > > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > > > S. > > > f. Sometimes the more you try to stop believing > in something, the more you can't stop > believing in it. Very true. And not only sometimes! I had the same thought when I wrote my sentence. But I wanted to stay in the brief Toombarus style!!! I feel: stopping beliefs is grace. They simply drop when the light of understanding falls on them. Somehow, on its inevitable course, cutting through darkness... Greetings Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > T: > > >All " yous " are in prison. > > >..........doin time. > > > > S: > > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > > > T: > > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > > > S: > > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > > > S. > > > >All beliefs are about things.......all things are within the prison. There is no prison. S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > T: > > > >All " yous " are in prison. > > > >..........doin time. > > > > > > S: > > > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > > > > > T: > > > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > > > > > S: > > > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > > > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > > > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > > > > > S. > > > > > > > >All beliefs are about things.......all things are within the prison. > > There is no prison. It is built of beliefs.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " > <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > T: > > > >All " yous " are in prison. > > > >..........doin time. > > > > > > S: > > > >Yes... as long as you believe in such things... > > > > > > T: > > > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > > > > > S: > > > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > > > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > > > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > > > > > S. > > > > > > f. Sometimes the more you try to stop believing > > in something, the more you can't stop > > believing in it. > > Very true. And not only sometimes! I had the same thought when I wrote > my sentence. But I wanted to stay in the brief Toombarus style!!! > f. Toom now has a brief style? And here I thought they just made boxer shorts. > I feel: stopping beliefs is grace. They simply drop when the light of > understanding falls on them. Somehow, on its inevitable course, > cutting through darkness... > f. 'stopping beliefs is grace' is that the same as grace is stopping beliefs? greetings > Greetings > Stefan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 19, 2005 > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > S: > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > S. >All beliefs are about things.......all things are within the prison. another belief. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemant bhai " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > >The " you " is the belief in such things. > > > > S: > > Only as long as the " you " believes in such things. Try it out, see > > what happens to " you " if " you " stop to believe in a prison, in > > harmfulness, in guarding... and all those things... > > > > S. > > >All beliefs are about things.......all things are within the prison. > > another belief. Turtles..................all the way down. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
