Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > > > be an > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > ways as > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > neither > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > mind or > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > You believe that you exist. > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > t. Thinking about thinking is not the same as seeing thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > thoughts > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > > be an > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > same. So it > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > ways as > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > neither > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > mind or > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > t. > > > Hi Toom, > > What is the standard that you use to determine what is not true? > > How did you make that statement? > > Lewis Belief and knowledge are different. Knowledge can be applied to the reactions that occur within physicality.....(the measureable world).......Beliefs are assumptions concerning things immaterial...and by defintiton are all untrue.... Can you tell me of one of your philosophical beliefs that is true? t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary conflict > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a major > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > natural state. > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in > relation to time. > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. AL: You're in a feedback loop. How can a feedback loop escape itself when outside it's dynamic it doesn't exist? Too many beliefs! Too many beliefs! They can not help you, only pacify you. You want help? Stop pacifying yourself with beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that > your > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > appears to > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > > ways as > > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > > neither > > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > > mind or > > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in > certain > > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > them dim > > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > > > You believe that you exist. > > > > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > > > > t. > > Thinking about thinking is not the same as seeing thinking. When was the last time you were able to see your own thinking?........ Thinking that you can see thinking... is only another thought. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary > conflict > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a > major > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > natural state. > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in > > relation to time. > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > AL: > You're in a feedback loop. > How can a feedback loop escape itself when outside it's dynamic it > doesn't exist? > > Too many beliefs! > Too many beliefs! > They can not help you, only pacify you. > You want help? > Stop pacifying yourself with beliefs. When the importance of thoughts fall away, the importance of beliefs also fall away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > > > " enlightenment " .......and > > > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it > > could > > > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you > > > please tell us > > > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be > > > encouraged......and > > > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary conflict > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a major > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > natural state. > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in > > relation to time. > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > > > That's an interesting.......belief. > > > but........I'm sorry.......It's not true. > > > t. Hahahaha. You're sad because you don't feel a lightness to mind and body, a bright and easy clarity of perception and a harmony withing your entire being. Perhaps you're not walking the walk of life two inches above ground. Neither am I. Yet it's just a question of time. The inner conflict cannot last. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > .... > > When was the last time you were able to see your own thinking?........ > > Thinking that you can see thinking... is only another thought. > > > toombaru Go from thinking to feeling emotions and other sensations. Then from the awareness of emotions to simultaneously observe thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > appears to > > > > be an > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > ways as > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > neither > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > mind or > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > them dim > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > You believe that you exist. > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > t. Hi Toom, What is thought? What is knowing? Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > > > > " enlightenment " .......and > > > > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it > > > could > > > > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you > > > > please tell us > > > > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be > > > > encouraged......and > > > > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary > conflict > > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a > major > > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > > natural state. > > > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in > > > relation to time. > > > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > That's an interesting.......belief. > > > > > > but........I'm sorry.......It's not true. > > > > > > t. > > Hahahaha. You're sad because you don't feel a lightness to mind and > body, a bright and easy clarity of perception and a harmony withing > your entire being. Perhaps you're not walking the walk of life two > inches above ground. Neither am I. Yet it's just a question of time. > The inner conflict cannot last. indeed...nothing lasts. t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > ... > > > > When was the last time you were able to see your own thinking?........ > > > > Thinking that you can see thinking... is only another thought. > > > > > > toombaru > > Go from thinking to feeling emotions and other sensations. Then from > the awareness of emotions to simultaneously observe thinking. ......and what do you think would happen .......if I were able to do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > > appears to > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > > ways as > > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > > neither > > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > > mind or > > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > > them dim > > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > > > You believe that you exist. > > > > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > > > > t. > > > Hi Toom, > > What is thought? > > What is knowing? > > Lewis Lewis......I really don'k know what you mean bu the word " is " If you could help me out here...we could....perhaps resolve this issue. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > > > > > " enlightenment " .......and > > > > > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it > > > > could > > > > > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you > > > > > please tell us > > > > > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be > > > > > encouraged......and > > > > > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary > > conflict > > > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a > > major > > > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > > > natural state. > > > > > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in > > > > relation to time. > > > > > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's an interesting.......belief. > > > > > > > > > but........I'm sorry.......It's not true. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > Hahahaha. You're sad because you don't feel a lightness to mind and > > body, a bright and easy clarity of perception and a harmony withing > > your entire being. Perhaps you're not walking the walk of life two > > inches above ground. Neither am I. Yet it's just a question of time. > > The inner conflict cannot last. > > > indeed...nothing lasts. > > t Yet, consciousness is eternal (I think). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > When was the last time you were able to see your own thinking?........ > > > > > > Thinking that you can see thinking... is only another thought. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Go from thinking to feeling emotions and other sensations. Then from > > the awareness of emotions to simultaneously observe thinking. > > > > .....and what do you think would happen .......if I were able to do that? You would be able to see your thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel > that your > > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't > be the > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > > > > > > " enlightenment " .......and > > > > > > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to > which it > > > > > could > > > > > > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a > thing.....could you > > > > > > please tell us > > > > > > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how > it can be > > > > > > encouraged......and > > > > > > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary > > > conflict > > > > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a > > > major > > > > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > > > > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > > > > natural state. > > > > > > > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > > > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of > thinking in > > > > > relation to time. > > > > > > > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's an interesting.......belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > but........I'm sorry.......It's not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > Hahahaha. You're sad because you don't feel a lightness to mind and > > > body, a bright and easy clarity of perception and a harmony withing > > > your entire being. Perhaps you're not walking the walk of life two > > > inches above ground. Neither am I. Yet it's just a question of time. > > > The inner conflict cannot last. > > > > > > indeed...nothing lasts. > > > > t > > Yet, consciousness is eternal (I think). Consciousness like to think it is eternal...... t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > > > appears to > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > > > ways as > > > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > > > neither > > > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > > > mind or > > > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > > > them dim > > > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > > > > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > > > > > You believe that you exist. > > > > > > > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > Hi Toom, > > > > What is thought? > > > > What is knowing? > > > > Lewis > > > > > Lewis......I really don'k know what you mean bu the word " is " > > > > If you could help me out here...we could....perhaps resolve this issue. > > > t. Must I explain everything. ))))))) The word " is " exists. This word exists as the illusionary concept-binding concept. Don't you know anything?!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > When was the last time you were able to see your own > thinking?........ > > > > > > > > Thinking that you can see thinking... is only another thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Go from thinking to feeling emotions and other sensations. Then from > > > the awareness of emotions to simultaneously observe thinking. > > > > > > > > .....and what do you think would happen .......if I were able to do > that? > > You would be able to see your thinking. Oh.....I think.....I just saw....................no..........that was a bird.........hummmmmmm.......I " m gonna try what you said.......I'll get back to ya.. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > > <cptc@w...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel > > that your > > > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't > > be the > > > > > > first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > > > > > > > " enlightenment " .......and > > > > > > > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to > > which it > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a > > thing.....could you > > > > > > > please tell us > > > > > > > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how > > it can be > > > > > > > encouraged......and > > > > > > > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary > > > > conflict > > > > > > > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a > > > > major > > > > > > > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > > > > > > > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is exactly what enlightenment is. > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the > > > > > > natural state. > > > > > > > > > > > > The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be > > > > > > encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of > > thinking in > > > > > > relation to time. > > > > > > > > > > > > After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's an interesting.......belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but........I'm sorry.......It's not true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > Hahahaha. You're sad because you don't feel a lightness to mind and > > > > body, a bright and easy clarity of perception and a harmony withing > > > > your entire being. Perhaps you're not walking the walk of life two > > > > inches above ground. Neither am I. Yet it's just a question of time. > > > > The inner conflict cannot last. > > > > > > > > > indeed...nothing lasts. > > > > > > t > > > > Yet, consciousness is eternal (I think). > > > > Consciousness like to think it is eternal...... > > t. Yes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Lewis......I really don'k know what you mean bu the word " is " > > > > > > > > If you could help me out here...we could....perhaps resolve this issue. > > > > > > t. > > Must I explain everything. ))))))) The word " is " exists. This word > exists as the illusionary concept-binding concept. Don't you know > anything?!!!! Must I explain EVERYTHING!!!!! Clip the unneccessary parts, and the essential remains. Clip the unneccessary parts, and the essential remains. You're only seeing trees today, AL, look >>over there<<, there's a forest over there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel > that your > > > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > > > > appears to > > > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that > thought is the > > > > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite > number of > > > > > ways as > > > > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not > important, > > > > > neither > > > > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a > non-thinking > > > > > mind or > > > > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely > free from > > > > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear > in certain > > > > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of > making > > > > them dim > > > > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... > > > > > > > > You know that electricity can hurt you......... > > > > > > > > You believe that you exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > Knowing and believing....create different worlds. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > Hi Toom, > > > > > > What is thought? > > > > > > What is knowing? > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Lewis......I really don'k know what you mean bu the word " is " > > > > > > > > If you could help me out here...we could....perhaps resolve this issue. > > > > > > t. > > Must I explain everything. ))))))) The word " is " exists. This word > exists as the illusionary concept-binding concept. Don't you know > anything?!!!! Why is it that things need to be bound? Why can't they just be free? Free like the wind.......is a bird bound to the sky?.........is a fish bound to the river? well....I quess they really are............. but why? why? .................................................................................\ ... Oh......I'm back now......how long was I out? t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > indeed...nothing lasts. > > > > t > > Yet, consciousness is eternal (I think). Eternity has nothing whatsoever to do with lasting forever, nor lasting at all -- even a millisecond. Therefore nothing exists in it, not even consciousness. And therefore, nothing is absent or lacking from it, whatsoever. -- Dan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Lewis......I really don'k know what you mean bu the word " is " > > > > > > > > > > > > If you could help me out here...we could....perhaps resolve this > issue. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > Must I explain everything. ))))))) The word " is " exists. This word > > exists as the illusionary concept-binding concept. Don't you know > > anything?!!!! > > > Must I explain EVERYTHING!!!!! > Clip the unneccessary parts, and the essential remains. > Clip the unneccessary parts, and the essential remains. > > You're only seeing trees today, AL, look >>over there<<, there's a > forest over there. I see what you mean, almost. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > .... > > Why is it that things need to be bound? > > > Why can't they just be free? > > Free like the wind.......is a bird bound to the sky?.........is a fish bound to the river? > > > well....I quess they really are............. > > but why? > > > why? > > .................................................................................\ ... > Oh......I'm back now......how long was I out? > > > t. I don't think you were out. A chick cannot return to being inside a shell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > Why is it that things need to be bound? > > > > > > Why can't they just be free? > > > > Free like the wind.......is a bird bound to the sky?.........is a > fish bound to the river? > > > > > > well....I quess they really are............. > > > > but why? > > > > > > why? > > > > > .................................................................................\ ... > > Oh......I'm back now......how long was I out? > > > > > > t. > > I don't think you were out. A chick cannot return to being inside a shell. Why?......................Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > appears to > > > > be an > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > > ways as > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > > neither > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > > mind or > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > them dim > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > Hi Toom, > > > > What is the standard that you use to determine what is not true? > > > > How did you make that statement? > > > > Lewis > > > > > Belief and knowledge are different. > > Knowledge can be applied to the reactions that occur within > physicality.....(the > measureable world).......Beliefs are assumptions concerning things > immaterial...and by > defintiton are all untrue.... > > Can you tell me of one of your philosophical beliefs that is true? > > > > t. Hi Toom, What is knowledge? Is belief different than knowledge? How so? One can apply beliefs of immaterial things to reactions that " occur within physicality. " This is done every day all day. The sun rises in the east is a belief as you will see below that is used by millions of people everyday. Toom, what definition is that which makes " immaterial " belief or assumptions all untrue? And what is physicality and immaterial? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any belief, philosophical or other, as well as all assumptions and knowledge can be: true false Both true and false Neither true nor false or other Depends on the context I suppose, Toom. In some context it is taken as true, in others false, in others both true and false and in some cases neither true nor false. For example, there is the belief that the sun rises. Is this not a belief in terms of the physicality you mentioned above? And is this belief not applied by millions of farmers throughout the world, not to mention all the uses this belief has for business, war, ritual etc.? The Sun rises in the east (I can see it with my own eyes everyday and so can all others with seeing eyes.) The Sun does not rise in the east (Science shows how this is an optical illusion based on the earth's horizon and its rotation on its axis) The Sun both rises and does not rises in the east (Well, a farmer with an understanding of basic astronomy and some satellite photos will accept this as well as most people who do so, even though few could write four coherent paragraphs on how the optical illusion occurs and whether or not it can ever be escaped. The Sun neither rises nor does not rises in the east (From the perspective the sun and solar system there is neither rising or not rising, the word itself is inappropriate). Which one shall be chosen, Tom? All of them can be true, and all of them can be false, each outcome depending on the context and assumptions held at the moment in which it is applied. It appears that to assert one over the other for all time leads to confusion. So there is no need for statements of " truth " or " falsity " at all. Both truth and falsity in Nagarjuna's term are empty, without an inherent essence and therefore indefinable alone. This is the ole' dependent origination, Toom. Therefore, for your question cannot be answered as stated with only one limited option. For answer will be false or true or both or neither depending on what assumptions will be held when viewing the answer. That is why your assumption is somewhat lopsided and therefore questioned to bring it to balance to see the other sides to be free from certainty and attachment to that which is impermanent. This is one way to explain, Toom, Buddha's and Nagarjuna's way. And there are other ways to explain the same thing, without invoking the tetralemma and dependent origination. Finding those other ways is important not for any liberation but for...... It will do well to explore if knowledge and belief are different. It is not certain from here as you can imagine. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > > appears to > > > > > be an > > > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > > > same. So it > > > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > > > > ways as > > > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > > > > neither > > > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > > > > mind or > > > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making > > them dim > > > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > Hi Toom, > > > > > > What is the standard that you use to determine what is not true? > > > > > > How did you make that statement? > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Belief and knowledge are different. > > > > Knowledge can be applied to the reactions that occur within > > physicality.....(the > > measureable world).......Beliefs are assumptions concerning things > > immaterial...and by > > defintiton are all untrue.... > > > > Can you tell me of one of your philosophical beliefs that is true? > > > > > > > > t. > > Hi Toom, > > What is knowledge? Is belief different than knowledge? How so? > > One can apply beliefs of immaterial things to reactions that " occur > within physicality. " This is done every day all day. The sun rises in > the east is a belief as you will see below that is used by millions of > people everyday. > > Toom, what definition is that which makes " immaterial " belief or > assumptions all untrue? > > And what is physicality and immaterial? > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Any belief, philosophical or other, as well as all assumptions and > knowledge can be: > > true > false > Both true and false > Neither true nor false or > other > > Depends on the context I suppose, Toom. In some context it is taken as > true, in others false, in others both true and false and in some cases > neither true nor false. > > For example, there is the belief that the sun rises. Is this not a > belief in terms of the physicality you mentioned above? And is this > belief not applied by millions of farmers throughout the world, not to > mention all the uses this belief has for business, war, ritual etc.? > > The Sun rises in the east (I can see it with my own eyes everyday and so > can all others with seeing eyes.) > > The Sun does not rise in the east (Science shows how this is an optical > illusion based on the earth's horizon and its rotation on its axis) > > The Sun both rises and does not rises in the east (Well, a farmer with > an understanding of basic astronomy and some satellite photos will > accept this as well as most people who do so, even though few could > write four coherent paragraphs on how the optical illusion occurs and > whether or not it can ever be escaped. > > The Sun neither rises nor does not rises in the east (From the > perspective the sun and solar system there is neither rising or not > rising, the word itself is inappropriate). > > Which one shall be chosen, Tom? > > All of them can be true, and all of them can be false, each outcome > depending on the context and assumptions held at the moment in which it > is applied. It appears that to assert one over the other for all time > leads to confusion. So there is no need for statements of " truth " or > " falsity " at all. Both truth and falsity in Nagarjuna's term are empty, > without an inherent essence and therefore indefinable alone. This is the > ole' dependent origination, Toom. > > Therefore, for your question cannot be answered as stated with only one > limited option. For answer will be false or true or both or neither > depending on what assumptions will be held when viewing the answer. That > is why your assumption is somewhat lopsided and therefore questioned to > bring it to balance to see the other sides to be free from certainty and > attachment to that which is impermanent. > > This is one way to explain, Toom, Buddha's and Nagarjuna's way. And > there are other ways to explain the same thing, without invoking the > tetralemma and dependent origination. Finding those other ways is > important not for any liberation but for...... > > It will do well to explore if knowledge and belief are different. It is > not certain from here as you can imagine. > > > Lewis The word " CHECKMATE " rings in toombaru's ears as he slinks away from the table. " Damn that Lewis " .......he thinks to himself.... " If nothing else.....he is smart! " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
