Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts are no longer imortant. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > are no longer imortant. > > /AL I mean important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Enlightenment is an important thought. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > are no longer important. > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > Werner I see by your statement that you have not reached enlightenment, or that you are pulling my leg. The menu is not the dinner. The word 'enlightenment' is a pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) I can here but to remind you of what Eckhart Tolle said: the analysis of [spiritual] pointers is pointless. /AL > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > are no longer important. > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 anders_lindman wrote: > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > are no longer imortant. > > /AL Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to be an infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the same. So it appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as important, not important, both important and not important, neither important nor not important and so on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > are no longer imortant. > > > > /AL > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to be an > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the same. So it > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > important nor not important and so on. Only by the thinking mind. ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to be an > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the same. So it > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > important nor not important and so on. > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > ------ > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Anders, you know this haiku ?: Dark night, water reflects moon, now moon is gone, no moon, no water ... Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > > > Werner > > I see by your statement that you have not reached enlightenment, or > that you are pulling my leg. The menu is not the dinner. The word > 'enlightenment' is a pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, > and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) > > I can here but to remind you of what Eckhart Tolle said: the analysis > of [spiritual] pointers is pointless. > > /AL > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > > are no longer important. > > > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > > > Werner > > I see by your statement that you have not reached enlightenment, or > that you are pulling my leg. I see by YOUR statement that you have not reached " it " either, or your leg is being pulled by the moon. > The menu is not the dinner. The word 'enlightenment' is a > pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, > and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) > /AL " To even one time mistake the moon for a finger is a million times more costly than visa versa. " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to be an > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the same. So it > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or > is that an oxymoron? > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim as ordinary thinking does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > Anders, you know this haiku ?: > > Dark night, > water reflects moon, > now moon is gone, > no moon, no water ... > > Werner Now I do. What does it mean? > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I see by your statement that you have not reached enlightenment, or > > that you are pulling my leg. The menu is not the dinner. The word > > 'enlightenment' is a pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, > > and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) > > > > I can here but to remind you of what Eckhart Tolle said: the > analysis > > of [spiritual] pointers is pointless. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > thoughts > > > > are no longer important. > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I see by your statement that you have not reached enlightenment, or > > that you are pulling my leg. > > I see by YOUR statement that you have not reached " it " either, or > your leg is being pulled by the moon. The thinking mind has a very heavy momentum built up during million of years. It will not go away easily. But eventually inner conflict will be replaced by peace. > > > > > The menu is not the dinner. The word 'enlightenment' is a > > pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, > > and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) > > /AL > > > " To even one time mistake the moon for a finger is a million times > more costly than visa versa. " I don't understand what that mean. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > thoughts > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > be an > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > same. So it > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > as ordinary thinking does. Anders, does that appear as experienced described or belief recounted? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > thoughts > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > be an > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > same. So it > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > Anders, does that appear as experienced described or belief recounted? Today I can see my thinking as one chunk with pain stuck to it. I don't know if I can be free from it. Maybe, just maybe, that kind of painful thinking is not needed! /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > are no longer imortant. > > /AL No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the first. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > are no longer imortant. > > > > /AL > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the first. > > > toombaru Do you know that, or do you believe that? /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > thoughts > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > be an > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > same. So it > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > as ordinary thinking does. Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is an important thought. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > I see by your statement that you have not reached > enlightenment, or > > > > that you are pulling my leg. > > > > > > I see by YOUR statement that you have not reached " it " either, or > > > your leg is being pulled by the moon. > > > > The thinking mind has a very heavy momentum built up during million > of > > years. It will not go away easily. But eventually inner conflict > will > > be replaced by peace. > > > AL: eventually inner conflict will be replaced with death. That's it. > You want peace, or the " absence of inner conflict " ? Kill yourself. I am about to. (not physical death mind you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The menu is not the dinner. The word 'enlightenment' is a > > > > pointer. I am trying to point to the moon here, > > > > and all you are doing is pulling my leg! ;-) > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > " To even one time mistake the moon for a finger is a million > > > times more costly than visa versa. " > > > > I don't understand what that mean. > > Then, for you, it has no meaning. > Do you comprehend the concept of mistaking the finger for the moon? > Give yourself one >>clear<< example... The finger and the moon are one. > > > > > (How about, thinking you're talking about the features of > enlightenment, AS THOUGH those features can even be discerned and > discussed, which they can't... THAT is mistaking the talk about the > thing for the thing.) > > Now, reverse it. > > (Believing you have " found out " - that the moon is made of green > cheese - because you can talk about moons and cheese, is mistaking > the thing, for the talk about the thing.) > > This is the fate of poets, and philosophers (well, most of them.) Only the falling away of thinking as something important will lead to enlightenment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > thoughts > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > be an > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > same. So it > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of ways as > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, neither > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking mind or > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > t. We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > thoughts > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what > appears to > > > be an > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > same. So it > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number > of ways as > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not > important, neither > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > mind or > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > Anders, does that appear as experienced described or belief recounted? > > Today I can see my thinking as one chunk with pain stuck to it. I > don't know if I can be free from it. Maybe, just maybe, that kind of > painful thinking is not needed! > > /AL Ok. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your thoughts > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the first. > > > > > > toombaru > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? Well.........since there could be no such a thing as " enlightenment " .......and even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it could happen............I guess....I know it. Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you please tell us exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be encouraged......and what happens after it occurs? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > thoughts > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > be an > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > same. So it > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > ways as > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > neither > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > mind or > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > t. Hi Toom, What is the standard that you use to determine what is not true? How did you make that statement? Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > thoughts > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the first. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as " enlightenment " .......and > even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it could > happen............I guess....I know it. Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you please tell us > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be encouraged......and > what happens after it occurs? > > > toombaru Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary conflict between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a major factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become fluid........for enlightenment to happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > > thoughts > > > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment is a something that is defined in what appears to > > > be an > > > > > > infinite number of ways and it appears that thought is the > > > same. So it > > > > > > appears that thought could be seen in an infinite number of > ways as > > > > > > important, not important, both important and not important, > neither > > > > > > important nor not important and so on. > > > > > > > > > > Only by the thinking mind. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. and to follow, does it appear that there is a non-thinking > mind or > > > > is that an oxymoron? > > > > > > > > > > I believe there is a state of mind that is completely free from > > > thoughts as the default state; where thoughts only appear in certain > > > situations which enhances those experiences instead of making them dim > > > as ordinary thinking does. > > > > > > > > Mind accumulates many beliefs...........none of which are true. > > > > > > t. > > We can begin to see all thinking as beliefs. Thought cannot see itself........cannot capture itself......... You know that electricity can hurt you......... You believe that you exist. Knowing and believing....create different worlds. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted January 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Enlightenment can come to you only when you feel that your > > thoughts > > > > > are no longer imortant. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one has ever become enlightened......and you won't be the first. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Do you know that, or do you believe that? > > > > > > > > Well.........since there could be no such a thing as > " enlightenment " .......and > > even if there were...........there could be no entity to which it could > > happen............I guess....I know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you seem to believe that there such a thing.....could you > please tell us > > exactly what it is...to whom it supposedly happens...how it can be > encouraged......and > > what happens after it occurs? > > > > > > toombaru > > Enlightenment is the natural falling away of the illusionary conflict > between a " me " and " the rest of the world " . Thinking, which is a major > factor upholding this illusion......must soften.......become > fluid........for enlightenment to happen. That is exactly what enlightenment is. Enlightenment will eventually happen to everyone, for it is the natural state. The process of dismantling the illusion of separation can be encouraged by starting to directly distrust all form of thinking in relation to time. After enlightenment there is peace and clarity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
