Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, politicians, gurus, > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer programmers, > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill it in T ad > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > toombaru > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. ........from the surface. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, politicians, gurus, > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > programmers, > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill it in T ad > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > .......from the surface. > > > > t. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be imagined. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, politicians, gurus, > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > programmers, > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill it in T ad > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > t. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > imagined. > > Lewis A hand cannot dissect itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, politicians, gurus, > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > > programmers, > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill it in > T ad > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > > imagined. > > > > Lewis > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, Toombaru, a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get " complicated " due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder during the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the right hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) 9 or 10 hours later, T. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, politicians, gurus, > > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > > > programmers, > > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill it in > > T ad > > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > > > imagined. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, Toombaru, > a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter > condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would > perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left > hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get " complicated " > due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological > conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will > come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder during > the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the right > hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) > > 9 or 10 hours later, T. > > Lewis And.........the supposed self...... Can it dissect its self? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, > politicians, gurus, > > > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > > > > programmers, > > > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill > it in > > > T ad > > > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > > > > imagined. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, Toombaru, > > a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter > > condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would > > perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left > > hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get " complicated " > > due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological > > conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will > > come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder during > > the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the right > > hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) > > > > 9 or 10 hours later, T. > > > > Lewis > > > > And.........the supposed self...... > > Can it dissect its self? > > > > > toombaru ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The supposed self? Do you mean a firmly believed in self or a conjectural or rhetorical self or an absolute illusory one or the false (vs true) one, the socially constructed one, the true self, the Atman, the Buddha-nature, the psyche, Neshamah, the daemon, Brahman, the cloaked self, the convenient self, the Holy Spirit, I Am, the still small voice, the Yechidah.....? Please bring the " supposed self " concept into greater focus. Some of these selves may attempt to dissect themselves phenomenally, others cannot or will not. Which one of these or another is closest to the " supposed self " mentioned? Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, > > politicians, gurus, > > > > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > > > > > programmers, > > > > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill > > it in > > > > T ad > > > > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > > > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > > > > > imagined. > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, Toombaru, > > > a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter > > > condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would > > > perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left > > > hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get " complicated " > > > due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological > > > conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will > > > come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder during > > > the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the right > > > hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) > > > > > > 9 or 10 hours later, T. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > And.........the supposed self...... > > > > Can it dissect its self? > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > The supposed self? Do you mean a firmly believed in self or a > conjectural or rhetorical self or an absolute illusory one or the false > (vs true) one, the socially constructed one, the true self, the Atman, > the Buddha-nature, the psyche, Neshamah, the daemon, Brahman, the > cloaked self, the convenient self, the Holy Spirit, I Am, the still > small voice, the Yechidah.....? Please bring the " supposed self " concept > into greater focus. Some of these selves may attempt to dissect > themselves phenomenally, others cannot or will not. Which one of these > or another is closest to the " supposed self " mentioned? > > Lewis The supposed autonomous self......the ego.......the identified entity.....the me.... t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, > > > politicians, gurus, > > > > > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, computer > > > > > > > programmers, > > > > > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, .....fill > > > it in > > > > > T ad > > > > > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night come > > > > > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it appears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > > > > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So it can be > > > > > > imagined. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, Toombaru, > > > > a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter > > > > condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would > > > > perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left > > > > hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get " complicated " > > > > due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological > > > > conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will > > > > come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder during > > > > the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the right > > > > hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) > > > > > > > > 9 or 10 hours later, T. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > And.........the supposed self...... > > > > > > Can it dissect its self? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > The supposed self? Do you mean a firmly believed in self or a > > conjectural or rhetorical self or an absolute illusory one or the false > > (vs true) one, the socially constructed one, the true self, the Atman, > > the Buddha-nature, the psyche, Neshamah, the daemon, Brahman, the > > cloaked self, the convenient self, the Holy Spirit, I Am, the still > > small voice, the Yechidah.....? Please bring the " supposed self " concept > > into greater focus. Some of these selves may attempt to dissect > > themselves phenomenally, others cannot or will not. Which one of these > > or another is closest to the " supposed self " mentioned? > > > > Lewis > > > The supposed autonomous self......the ego.......the identified entity.....the me.... > > All selves....no matter how exalted...or lowly.....are illusory. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > > > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusions as phenomena or as concept are useful. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To whom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Magicians, artists, intellectuals, mystics, > > > politicians, gurus, > > > > > > > > > > messiahs, kids, parents, devotees, philosophers, > computer > > > > > > > programmers, > > > > > > > > > > plastic surgeons, photographers, novelists, > .....fill > > > it in > > > > > T ad > > > > > > > > > > infinitum. There is no mouse to catch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did all of the people in your dream last night > come > > > > > > > > > from..........where did they go? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The right hand is equally veined as the left. So it > appears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .......from the surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. Dissection while there is still blood flow would be more > > > > > > informative but rather complicated, messy and painful. So > it can be > > > > > > imagined. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A hand cannot dissect itself. > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > In this case, as it was mentioned above, there are two hands, > Toombaru, > > > > a more dexterous left hand and less dexterous right hand. The latter > > > > condition was not mentioned previously. Anyway, the left hand would > > > > perform the dissection on the right but when switching from the left > > > > hand to the right to dissect the left hand this could get > " complicated " > > > > due to the messy, painful and other anatomical and physiological > > > > conditions that results from investigatory dissection (the pain will > > > > come from the awkward positioning of the hand, arm and shoulder > during > > > > the dissection. A local anesthetic could be administered to the > right > > > > hand and therefore there should be no pain there)..... :-) > > > > > > > > 9 or 10 hours later, T. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > And.........the supposed self...... > > > > > > Can it dissect its self? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > The supposed self? Do you mean a firmly believed in self or a > > conjectural or rhetorical self or an absolute illusory one or the false > > (vs true) one, the socially constructed one, the true self, the Atman, > > the Buddha-nature, the psyche, Neshamah, the daemon, Brahman, the > > cloaked self, the convenient self, the Holy Spirit, I Am, the still > > small voice, the Yechidah.....? Please bring the " supposed self " concept > > into greater focus. Some of these selves may attempt to dissect > > themselves phenomenally, others cannot or will not. Which one of these > > or another is closest to the " supposed self " mentioned? > > > > Lewis > > > The supposed autonomous self......the ego.......the identified > entity.....the me.... > > > t. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The supposed autonomous self......the ego.......the identified > entity.....the me.... can just be wiped away with a simple answer. It is an illusion so there can be no dissection. A more refined discussion requires more conceptual information. For example, the concept ego rarely functions as a single identified entity. There are sub-egos that can be integrated with one that phenomenally appears to be the main identified one, " me " or " I " or " Lewis. " These sub-egos may appear discontuiuously under certain conditions (violation of personal or social standards, failure, listening to conscience, the appearance of guilt or anxiety) or be completedly separated from the main one. Remember Chris Sizemore, the woman with 22 distinct personalities who was made famous by the movie " The Three Faces of Eve? " Many experiences with " God " or " I AM " for example are responsive mental constructions that appear under the conditions specified by the main ego during prayer and answer dialogues, meditation, contemplation, meditation, recollection, and ecstasy. What is mentioned above is vague and appears as something unitary in concept, when experience teaches such is not so by any means. And so.......leave it or open it up? Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > atagrasin wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Atagrasin, > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that there is only silence, passive awareness, > > > > > > and observation in > > > > > > Unitary Perception, what is next? > > > > When questioning stop,silence happens,when silence happens then, > > > > who wants to know? > > > > Atagrasin > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > No one. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Unitary perception is a contradiction in terms.......there could be no > > such thing. > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Percepts are usually defined as a basic component in the formation of a > concept, an immediate unanalyzable private object of sensation, a > discrete representation of what is perceived such as " red " that may be > seen atop a " vehicle. " So the term, unexplained or described, is > misleading in that the term implies unification of discrete perceptions, > a distinctly egotist effort and one doomed to create illusions. > > However, unitary perception is a " goal-less being " or a " form of > silence " that encourages goal-less attention and, in being this and > living this, there is the complete suspension of the formation discrete > perceptions and thoughts and complete silence. In this sense it is akin > to what is spoken about in this forum. But, because Feldman Gonzalez is > an activist in the Krishnamurti tradition, then the original post about > it here was to encourage transformative action in the world in addition > to dialogue. > > Nevertheless, Dr. Feldman Gonzalez makes it possible for this stated > description to be misunderstood by seeking egos because of the use of > dualistic language and by pointing to the brain and mind as the medium > and mechanism through which this is practiced. > > So, the term and these other ideas makes it possible for unitary > perception to be easily misconstrued by egos seeking enlightenment to > mean that " they " must hold off during observation, be silent internally > so that the whole is perceived " as it is " not as " i " want or wish. This > cannot be achieved by the mind or brain. The visual system and the mind > simply adds what it notices in attention, one perception, then another, > then another, then another, and if an ego allows this to continue there > may be a sense that one is getting the whole by refusing to halt a > continuous line of gradually accruing and integrating perceptions and > thoughts. But such an ego achievement yields only illusions. > > Dr. Feldman Gonzalez describes as much, realizes it, but has yet to > refine the language and and description of the experience of non-duality > so that ego readers are directed to more carefully towards " their " > dissipation. > > Taken positively, unitary perception is meditation Krishnamurti style > (Krishnamurti: Be a light to yourself. Stop procrastination. Throw away > the content of consciousness. There has to be pure consciousness, pure > awareness, pure listening) that is couched in modern language with > activist intentions in the background. Unitary perception is founded in > the work of Krishnamurti and is a neologism adopted by Dr. Feldman > Gonzalez during a conversation with Krishnamurti (See > www.unitaryperception.org/writings.htm " My Dialogues with Krishnamurti > 1975-1986, pp. 11, 8). > > It can be said that all ideas, concepts, labels, mental constructions, > etc. are unreal. Unitary perception is a mental construction and and an > idea. Therefore, unitary perception is unreal. > > As Toombaru simply says " there could be no such thing. " > > Logic has its uses in the world of duality, but it is simply a tool or a > toy for communication between egos in that world. > > Postings are written ideas. They too are unreal. So why post > unrealities, is it not a waste of time? In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling breeds fear. /AL > > Since there are so many egos still existing, the postings, unitary > perception and other unrealities found here and there will find welcome > homes and will or will not be used in one way or another...... > They are used for.....well, whatever ego allows the mind to do with > them,.....to convince, to guide, to share, to help, to create pain, to > confuse, to live, to dream, to change, to grow, to chastise, to > encourage, to wake up, to dissolve, to make money, to build status, to > be right, to be superior, to look down on others, to pity, to have > compassion, to show off, to demonstrate, to learn, to.....ad infinitum. > > Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > atagrasin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Atagrasin, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that there is only silence, passive awareness, > > > > > > > and observation in > > > > > > > Unitary Perception, what is next? > > > > > When questioning stop,silence happens,when silence happens > then, > > > > > who wants to know? > > > > > Atagrasin > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > No one. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unitary perception is a contradiction in terms.......there could > be no > > > such thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Percepts are usually defined as a basic component in the formation of a > > concept, an immediate unanalyzable private object of sensation, a > > discrete representation of what is perceived such as " red " that may be > > seen atop a " vehicle. " So the term, unexplained or described, is > > misleading in that the term implies unification of discrete > perceptions, > > a distinctly egotist effort and one doomed to create illusions. > > > > However, unitary perception is a " goal-less being " or a " form of > > silence " that encourages goal-less attention and, in being this and > > living this, there is the complete suspension of the formation discrete > > perceptions and thoughts and complete silence. In this sense it is akin > > to what is spoken about in this forum. But, because Feldman Gonzalez is > > an activist in the Krishnamurti tradition, then the original post about > > it here was to encourage transformative action in the world in addition > > to dialogue. > > > > Nevertheless, Dr. Feldman Gonzalez makes it possible for this stated > > description to be misunderstood by seeking egos because of the use of > > dualistic language and by pointing to the brain and mind as the medium > > and mechanism through which this is practiced. > > > > So, the term and these other ideas makes it possible for unitary > > perception to be easily misconstrued by egos seeking enlightenment to > > mean that " they " must hold off during observation, be silent internally > > so that the whole is perceived " as it is " not as " i " want or wish. This > > cannot be achieved by the mind or brain. The visual system and the mind > > simply adds what it notices in attention, one perception, then another, > > then another, then another, and if an ego allows this to continue there > > may be a sense that one is getting the whole by refusing to halt a > > continuous line of gradually accruing and integrating perceptions and > > thoughts. But such an ego achievement yields only illusions. > > > > Dr. Feldman Gonzalez describes as much, realizes it, but has yet to > > refine the language and and description of the experience of > non-duality > > so that ego readers are directed to more carefully towards " their " > > dissipation. > > > > Taken positively, unitary perception is meditation Krishnamurti style > > (Krishnamurti: Be a light to yourself. Stop procrastination. Throw away > > the content of consciousness. There has to be pure consciousness, pure > > awareness, pure listening) that is couched in modern language with > > activist intentions in the background. Unitary perception is founded in > > the work of Krishnamurti and is a neologism adopted by Dr. Feldman > > Gonzalez during a conversation with Krishnamurti (See > > www.unitaryperception.org/writings.htm " My Dialogues with Krishnamurti > > 1975-1986, pp. 11, 8). > > > > It can be said that all ideas, concepts, labels, mental constructions, > > etc. are unreal. Unitary perception is a mental construction and and an > > idea. Therefore, unitary perception is unreal. > > > > As Toombaru simply says " there could be no such thing. " > > > > Logic has its uses in the world of duality, but it is simply a tool > or a > > toy for communication between egos in that world. > > > > Postings are written ideas. They too are unreal. So why post > > unrealities, is it not a waste of time? > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > breeds fear. > > /AL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. Lewis > > > > > Since there are so many egos still existing, the postings, unitary > > perception and other unrealities found here and there will find welcome > > homes and will or will not be used in one way or another...... > > They are used for.....well, whatever ego allows the mind to do with > > them,.....to convince, to guide, to share, to help, to create pain, to > > confuse, to live, to dream, to change, to grow, to chastise, to > > encourage, to wake up, to dissolve, to make money, to build status, to > > be right, to be superior, to look down on others, to pity, to have > > compassion, to show off, to demonstrate, to learn, to.....ad infinitum. > > > > Lewis > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > .... > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > breeds fear. > > > > /AL > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > Lewis > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: rhetorical question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Toombaru: > > The supposed autonomous self......the ego.......the identified entity.....the me.... > > > All selves....no matter how exalted...or lowly.....are illusory. **************************************** Toombaru man, ha ha ha! The sage man.|! I like you !!! :0)I already told you that hein! Yes you see clearly my friend all you said in your last postings are correct. But don't forget to dance your lovely zombee jamboree once and a while! ha ha ha! But who will read this posting I'm sending you? I know it won't be toombaru. All I know is that it is going top be read. You are going to read it! ha ha ha! Love, Odysseus, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 anders_lindman wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > ... > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > /AL > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > Lewis > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > rhetorical question. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the paragraph that followed. No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation into Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 -- > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > breeds fear. > It is not time passing that causes the nervous feeling....It is the knowledge that time is running out.... Thr fear of death...of not being.....is the mother of all fears. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > rhetorical question. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the > paragraph that followed. > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation into > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > Lewis Horrible knots! I want the flow of being feel like a stream of warm honey of peace running through my mind and body. Do you know how I can untie those knots? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > -- > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > breeds fear. > > > > > > It is not time passing that causes the nervous feeling....It is the knowledge that time is running out.... > > Thr fear of death...of not being.....is the mother of all fears. > > > > t. Time running out _is_ the nervous feeling of time passing. Let the now be your home and watch time flow in a peaceful stillness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > rhetorical question. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the > paragraph that followed. > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation into > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > Lewis There is no entity that exists outside of the fear. The " self " could not be emotionally attached to itself..... t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only > one space. > > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that > time can be > > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's > fear, > > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a > very strong > > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous > feeling > > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > > rhetorical question. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the > > paragraph that followed. > > > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation > into > > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > > > > Lewis > > Horrible knots! I want the flow of being feel like a stream of warm > honey of peace running through my mind and body. Do you know how I can > untie those knots? If they were real knots.....you could simply untie them...:-) t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > -- > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > > It is not time passing that causes the nervous feeling....It is the > knowledge that time is running out.... > > > > Thr fear of death...of not being.....is the mother of all fears. > > > > > > > > t. > > Time running out _is_ the nervous feeling of time passing. Let the now > be your home and watch time flow in a peaceful stillness. The mind lives only in the past......it will never experience the now. t. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 toombaru2004 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one > space. > > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time > can be > > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's > fear, > > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very > strong > > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous > feeling > > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > > rhetorical question. > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the > > paragraph that followed. > > > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation into > > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > > > > Lewis > > There is no entity that exists outside of the fear. > > The " self " could not be emotionally attached to itself..... > > > t. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ T., an " ego " or " self, " when not seen as unitary concept or singular existential phenomena of unified structure, can be attached to all or parts of the ego's myriad manifestations or have interactive relations with " sub-egos " all of which are responsive mental constructions. Witness the experience of " conscience. " This " illusory reality " is very common. Here is an example. An " ego " over a period of time is formed from infancy and comes to adhere to personal and social moral and ethical standards to be true and right and therefore builds all the rationalities and reasons and justifications why this must be so and establishes the authorities in one way another upon which it stands and attempts to acts in accordance with these standards. This " building up " results in a " keeper-ego " a keeper of the standards that monitors ego's behavior and sends out anxiety and fear if ego comes to close to a violation. This sub-ego may be nice or nasty or somewhere in between and may assume the position of God, or good angel or judge, or accuser or evil spirit or devil depending on all sorts of ego input and experience. So there is " ego, " an " overseeing ego " and a " keeper-ego " of some type and then the building up of the " good ego " based on the actions performed in accordance with those standards adhered to. If the " good ego " violates these standards often enough, a " bad ego " emerges. Now there are four (or more) " entities " or parts of " overseeing ego. " The more violations committed the " more bad " or more " evil " the ego. The " good ego " who did not do this violation is then dealt with by the " keeper ego " who may judge, chastise, accuse, or abuse the " good ego " saying how could you let this happen nicely to horribly while suggesting solutions. The " bad ego " may laugh at this depending on how bad and strong it is. The " keeper ego " may then go after the " bad ego " and certainly other people will go after the " bad ego " and the " good ego " to get them in line. But the " good ego " may be listening to it all more than the " bad one. " A distraught " good ego " may also try to control or attack the " bad ego, " damning it and trying to control it through penance, prayer, positive thinking, Jesus, God, meditation, asceticism and the " bad ego " does the same and may attack all the other " egos " or pull all action in its direction. " God " and " Jesus " and " I am " and gurus and avatars and arhats and bodhisattvas and all the host of perfect entities are also built up and begin appearing in the mind helping to quell the discomfort. It can get pretty busy for some. Such are the illusory entities or tendencies of mind associated with the experience of " conscience " endured by so many. In this case, " ego " can be emotionally attached to itself (its myriad forms) by encouraging the " good ego " to be strong and supporting it with affection and concern. The " good ego " feels good and feels grateful and tries to be more good. The " overseeing ego " and " good ego " can be attached to the " bad ego " through disdain, disgust, fear, hatred, etc. (all very strong emotions that are relational) of its evil ways and by regularly attempting to suppress and repress its expression. The " overseeing " and " good " egos may cherishes the " keeper ego " by providing it with more " ammunition " to fight evil by reading scriptures and sacred texts and self-help books and receiving psychotherapies, joining groups of like-minded persons and attempt to protect the whole kit and caboodle by keeping secret the existence of the " bad ego " or altering the " facts " or hiding its deeds while doing good deeds and relating to God and Jesus and the sacred and enlightened ones and the caring ones. Such ego diversity and the many forms ego may manifest or develop in just this one example is the bane of the seeking ego that learns that to be free itself from such " insanity " as it is experienced it must rid itself of itself. This is an impossibility, since the ego is a concept and an illusion and has no consciousness to do such an action. Ego cannot see ego for ego is " blind, " a mind creation, a mind product, an object. That which is " sees " and works through the egos and sub-egos all, using whatever is available to allow its expression to be unencumbered. The " blind ego " seeking " enlightenment, " that is, a safe haven from itself, is actually " what is " moving steadily to complete unencumbered expression. So when the " blind ego " lapses every now and then in its endless wanderings and ponderings, " what is " fills the openings. The ego delights in such occurrences and tries to capture it, multiply it, solidify it, and so on only to fail continuously. When the lapses increase in duration, " what is " is able to be as it is more and more since all egos are " seen. " When seen, egos are transformed into uninfluential, identity less and content less phenomena. These multiple responsive, illusory entities, tendencies, forms, etc. can be conceptually reduced to a single " me " or " ego. " But experientially for neophytes this often is not the case. It is a little more messy and confusing. For adepts still not beyond ego tendencies and forms, a single ego is identifiable, usually an " onion layered one " that is peeled layer by layer to finally see " no thing. " When ego is fully " seen " there is.... Lewis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one > > space. > > > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time > > can be > > > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's > > fear, > > > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very > > strong > > > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous > > feeling > > > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not wasting > > > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > > > rhetorical question. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > > > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > > > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > > > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > > > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed in the > > > paragraph that followed. > > > > > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > > > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > > > > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > > > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily sensation into > > > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > > > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > There is no entity that exists outside of the fear. > > > > The " self " could not be emotionally attached to itself..... > > > > > > t. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > T., an " ego " or " self, " when not seen as unitary concept or singular > existential phenomena of unified structure, can be attached to all or > parts of the ego's myriad manifestations or have interactive relations > with " sub-egos " all of which are responsive mental constructions. > Witness the experience of " conscience. " > > This " illusory reality " is very common. Here is an example. An " ego " > over a period of time is formed from infancy and comes to adhere to > personal and social moral and ethical standards to be true and right and > therefore builds all the rationalities and reasons and justifications > why this must be so and establishes the authorities in one way another > upon which it stands and attempts to acts in accordance with these > standards. > > This " building up " results in a " keeper-ego " a keeper of the standards > that monitors ego's behavior and sends out anxiety and fear if ego comes > to close to a violation. This sub-ego may be nice or nasty or somewhere > in between and may assume the position of God, or good angel or judge, > or accuser or evil spirit or devil depending on all sorts of ego input > and experience. So there is " ego, " an " overseeing ego " and a > " keeper-ego " of some type and then the building up of the " good ego " > based on the actions performed in accordance with those standards > adhered to. > > If the " good ego " violates these standards often enough, a " bad ego " > emerges. Now there are four (or more) " entities " or parts of " overseeing > ego. " The more violations committed the " more bad " or more " evil " the > ego. The " good ego " who did not do this violation is then dealt with by > the " keeper ego " who may judge, chastise, accuse, or abuse the " good > ego " saying how could you let this happen nicely to horribly while > suggesting solutions. The " bad ego " may laugh at this depending on how > bad and strong it is. The " keeper ego " may then go after the " bad ego " > and certainly other people will go after the " bad ego " and the " good > ego " to get them in line. But the " good ego " may be listening to it all > more than the " bad one. " A distraught " good ego " may also try to control > or attack the " bad ego, " damning it and trying to control it through > penance, prayer, positive thinking, Jesus, God, meditation, asceticism > and the " bad ego " does the same and may attack all the other " egos " or > pull all action in its direction. " God " and " Jesus " and " I am " and gurus > and avatars and arhats and bodhisattvas and all the host of perfect > entities are also built up and begin appearing in the mind helping to > quell the discomfort. It can get pretty busy for some. > > Such are the illusory entities or tendencies of mind associated with the > experience of " conscience " endured by so many. > > In this case, " ego " can be emotionally attached to itself (its myriad > forms) by encouraging the " good ego " to be strong and supporting it with > affection and concern. The " good ego " feels good and feels grateful and > tries to be more good. The " overseeing ego " and " good ego " can be > attached to the " bad ego " through disdain, disgust, fear, hatred, etc. > (all very strong emotions that are relational) of its evil ways and by > regularly attempting to suppress and repress its expression. The > " overseeing " and " good " egos may cherishes the " keeper ego " by providing > it with more " ammunition " to fight evil by reading scriptures and sacred > texts and self-help books and receiving psychotherapies, joining groups > of like-minded persons and attempt to protect the whole kit and caboodle > by keeping secret the existence of the " bad ego " or altering the > " facts " or hiding its deeds while doing good deeds and relating to God > and Jesus and the sacred and enlightened ones and the caring ones. > > Such ego diversity and the many forms ego may manifest or develop in > just this one example is the bane of the seeking ego that learns that to > be free itself from such " insanity " as it is experienced it must rid > itself of itself. This is an impossibility, since the ego is a concept > and an illusion and has no consciousness to do such an action. Ego > cannot see ego for ego is " blind, " a mind creation, a mind product, an > object. > > That which is " sees " and works through the egos and sub-egos all, using > whatever is available to allow its expression to be unencumbered. > The " blind ego " seeking " enlightenment, " that is, a safe haven from > itself, is actually " what is " moving steadily to complete unencumbered > expression. So when the " blind ego " lapses every now and then in its > endless wanderings and ponderings, " what is " fills the openings. The ego > delights in such occurrences and tries to capture it, multiply it, > solidify it, and so on only to fail continuously. When the lapses > increase in duration, " what is " is able to be as it is more and more > since all egos are " seen. " When seen, egos are transformed into > uninfluential, identity less and content less phenomena. > > These multiple responsive, illusory entities, tendencies, forms, etc. > can be conceptually reduced to a single " me " or " ego. " But > experientially for neophytes this often is not the case. It is a little > more messy and confusing. For adepts still not beyond ego tendencies > and forms, a single ego is identifiable, usually an " onion layered one " > that is peeled layer by layer to finally see " no thing. " When ego is > fully " seen " there is.... > > Lewis Well.......That's a very good description of something that doesn't even exist. I once knew a man that became obsessed with his own shadow....He spent endless hours describing it...... toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > -- > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one space. > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time can be > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's fear, > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very strong > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous feeling > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not time passing that causes the nervous feeling....It is the > > knowledge that time is running out.... > > > > > > Thr fear of death...of not being.....is the mother of all fears. > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > Time running out _is_ the nervous feeling of time passing. Let the now > > be your home and watch time flow in a peaceful stillness. > > > > The mind lives only in the past......it will never experience the now. > > > t. I can live in the now, because I have free will. /AL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only one > space. > > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that time > can be > > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. It's > fear, > > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting time? > > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a very > strong > > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your entire > > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous > feeling > > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not time passing that causes the nervous feeling....It is the > > > knowledge that time is running out.... > > > > > > > > Thr fear of death...of not being.....is the mother of all fears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > Time running out _is_ the nervous feeling of time passing. Let the now > > > be your home and watch time flow in a peaceful stillness. > > > > > > > > The mind lives only in the past......it will never experience the now. > > > > > > t. > > I can live in the now, because I have free will. > > /AL Can you tell me what free will is? toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > toombaru2004 wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess > > <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Unitary Perception there is no time, Feldman says. Only > > one > > > > space. > > > > > > > > Waste time? In Unitary Perception? LOL! :-) The idea that > > time > > > > can be > > > > > > > > wasted is, I believe, the hallmark of a fragmented mind. > > It's > > > > fear, > > > > > > > > isn't it? Living a whole life being anxious about wasting > > time? > > > > > > > > Hahaha. Wasting time is only an _idea_ in the mind, and a > > very > > > > strong > > > > > > > > and persistent idea it is. This idea can be felt in your > > entire > > > > > > > > body/mind as a nervous feeling of time passing. This nervous > > > > feeling > > > > > > > > breeds fear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > Rhetorical Question. Nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can live an entire life not wasting time. We can also live an > > > > > > entire life wasting time. A mystic may say: wasting time? not > > wasting > > > > > > time? What's the difference? That, I believe, is what you mean: > > > > > > rhetorical question. > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > A rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (to > > > > > illicit pondering, controversy, sense of ignorance) and no answer is > > > > > expected. The intended effect was to direct attention on the act of > > > > > posting that is done by " no one " and that such posting has its uses, > > > > > practical or other, for egos seeking. This was clearly expressed > > in the > > > > > paragraph that followed. > > > > > > > > > > No mysticism or cloaking here, Anders, just a plain ole post in > > > > > dualistic language talking about " illusory realities. " > > > > > > > > > > Fear, by the way, is based not only in thought but also in affective > > > > > attachments that coagulate thought and emotion and bodily > > sensation into > > > > > Gordian knots or plugs that impede the flow of being. Fear is basic > > > > > evidence of emotional attachment to self and self-centeredness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > There is no entity that exists outside of the fear. > > > > > > > > The " self " could not be emotionally attached to itself..... > > > > > > > > > > > > t. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > T., an " ego " or " self, " when not seen as unitary concept or singular > > > existential phenomena of unified structure, can be attached to all or > > > parts of the ego's myriad manifestations or have interactive relations > > > with " sub-egos " all of which are responsive mental constructions. > > > Witness the experience of " conscience. " > > > > > > This " illusory reality " is very common. Here is an example. An " ego " > > > over a period of time is formed from infancy and comes to adhere to > > > personal and social moral and ethical standards to be true and right and > > > therefore builds all the rationalities and reasons and justifications > > > why this must be so and establishes the authorities in one way another > > > upon which it stands and attempts to acts in accordance with these > > > standards. > > > > > > This " building up " results in a " keeper-ego " a keeper of the standards > > > that monitors ego's behavior and sends out anxiety and fear if ego comes > > > to close to a violation. This sub-ego may be nice or nasty or somewhere > > > in between and may assume the position of God, or good angel or judge, > > > or accuser or evil spirit or devil depending on all sorts of ego input > > > and experience. So there is " ego, " an " overseeing ego " and a > > > " keeper-ego " of some type and then the building up of the " good ego " > > > based on the actions performed in accordance with those standards > > > adhered to. > > > > > > If the " good ego " violates these standards often enough, a " bad ego " > > > emerges. Now there are four (or more) " entities " or parts of " overseeing > > > ego. " The more violations committed the " more bad " or more " evil " the > > > ego. The " good ego " who did not do this violation is then dealt with by > > > the " keeper ego " who may judge, chastise, accuse, or abuse the " good > > > ego " saying how could you let this happen nicely to horribly while > > > suggesting solutions. The " bad ego " may laugh at this depending on how > > > bad and strong it is. The " keeper ego " may then go after the " bad ego " > > > and certainly other people will go after the " bad ego " and the " good > > > ego " to get them in line. But the " good ego " may be listening to it all > > > more than the " bad one. " A distraught " good ego " may also try to control > > > or attack the " bad ego, " damning it and trying to control it through > > > penance, prayer, positive thinking, Jesus, God, meditation, asceticism > > > and the " bad ego " does the same and may attack all the other " egos " or > > > pull all action in its direction. " God " and " Jesus " and " I am " and gurus > > > and avatars and arhats and bodhisattvas and all the host of perfect > > > entities are also built up and begin appearing in the mind helping to > > > quell the discomfort. It can get pretty busy for some. > > > > > > Such are the illusory entities or tendencies of mind associated with the > > > experience of " conscience " endured by so many. > > > > > > In this case, " ego " can be emotionally attached to itself (its myriad > > > forms) by encouraging the " good ego " to be strong and supporting it with > > > affection and concern. The " good ego " feels good and feels grateful and > > > tries to be more good. The " overseeing ego " and " good ego " can be > > > attached to the " bad ego " through disdain, disgust, fear, hatred, etc. > > > (all very strong emotions that are relational) of its evil ways and by > > > regularly attempting to suppress and repress its expression. The > > > " overseeing " and " good " egos may cherishes the " keeper ego " by providing > > > it with more " ammunition " to fight evil by reading scriptures and sacred > > > texts and self-help books and receiving psychotherapies, joining groups > > > of like-minded persons and attempt to protect the whole kit and caboodle > > > by keeping secret the existence of the " bad ego " or altering the > > > " facts " or hiding its deeds while doing good deeds and relating to God > > > and Jesus and the sacred and enlightened ones and the caring ones. > > > > > > Such ego diversity and the many forms ego may manifest or develop in > > > just this one example is the bane of the seeking ego that learns that to > > > be free itself from such " insanity " as it is experienced it must rid > > > itself of itself. This is an impossibility, since the ego is a concept > > > and an illusion and has no consciousness to do such an action. Ego > > > cannot see ego for ego is " blind, " a mind creation, a mind product, an > > > object. > > > > > > That which is " sees " and works through the egos and sub-egos all, using > > > whatever is available to allow its expression to be unencumbered. > > > The " blind ego " seeking " enlightenment, " that is, a safe haven from > > > itself, is actually " what is " moving steadily to complete unencumbered > > > expression. So when the " blind ego " lapses every now and then in its > > > endless wanderings and ponderings, " what is " fills the openings. The ego > > > delights in such occurrences and tries to capture it, multiply it, > > > solidify it, and so on only to fail continuously. When the lapses > > > increase in duration, " what is " is able to be as it is more and more > > > since all egos are " seen. " When seen, egos are transformed into > > > uninfluential, identity less and content less phenomena. > > > > > > These multiple responsive, illusory entities, tendencies, forms, etc. > > > can be conceptually reduced to a single " me " or " ego. " But > > > experientially for neophytes this often is not the case. It is a little > > > more messy and confusing. For adepts still not beyond ego tendencies > > > and forms, a single ego is identifiable, usually an " onion layered one " > > > that is peeled layer by layer to finally see " no thing. " When ego is > > > fully " seen " there is.... > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Well.......That's a very good description of something that doesn't even > > exist. > > > > > > I once knew a man that became obsessed with his own shadow....He spent > > endless hours describing it...... > > > > > > toombaru > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Was reading it a pleasure, Toombaru? The description was based on years > of anecdotal evidence. The descriptions were gathered by asking for > metaphors of one's mind. In one instance, the description was quite > simple. There was a silent judge and two lawyers and a watcher of the > three. The two lawyers, one described as negative and evil and the other > as positive and good, were at each other over every little event or > condition. Sometimes the good one won the argument, sometimes the the > evil one won. The judge said nothing most of the time and only > interefered when the two lawyers were deadlocked. In those moments the > judge would give his suggestion and the watcher would decide to act > sometimes in the favor of the evil lawyer and sometimes in the favor of > the good lawyer. His testimony was that actions following the order of > the judge turned out best and compromises made by the watcher for siding > with either the good or evil lawyer turned out less than happy. > > These descriptions are common. Illusions? Most certainly. > > What is a metaphor for the mind in Toombaru, the mind used to post and > to do things with like eating and walking and reading and going to the > bathroom. Do you experience illusions, Toombaru? These are not > rhetorical questions. There is real interest. You forgot.......This mind is convinced that mind can never see itself....never catch even the most fleeting glimpse of its ever changing...surging.......swirling.....unknowableness. It is forever behind itself.....left in the dust and debris. Mind cannot find itself within itself............ toombaru > > As for shadows and the like, the illusions of the world, they are for > playing, for enjoyment. Playing is enjoyable is it not, Toombaru. :-) > Odysseus likes to play. Hey Odysseus, catch an illusion and taste its > sweetness......Haahahahahahahaha! > > > Lewis Alas.....the water in a mirage...will never quench your thirst. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
