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Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

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Dear Sadaks,

As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not

have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or

realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?

HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are

having them. What?

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

 

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.

2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..

3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the

extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas

4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.

5. Focus on subject at hand only.

6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address

etc) or personalize message to particular person

7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify

the posting.

8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-

sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

bracketed.

 

MODERATOR

Ram Ram

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

 

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!

 

Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !!

 

Narain ! Narain !!

 

Naarad N Maharishi

 

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride

which animals do not have."

 

Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a

convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior.

 

Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...

like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Namaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.

Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).

When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character.

 

There are the Divine properties:

Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3

 

There are the Demoniac properties:

Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4

No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.

Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21

Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.

Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:

Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes.

 

For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:

Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.

These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted.

 

And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:

These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.

The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme.

 

Ram Ram,

Deosaran Bisnath

-------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect.

 

Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts.

 

So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27

"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)".

 

Regards,

Bharathi

-----------------------

 

Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

-

Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana.

 

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------

-Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Priy sadhak

Paramatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.

Thanx

Raja Gurdasani

-------------------------------

 

Shree Hari Ram ram

Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?

Meera Das, Ram Ram

 

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Dear gita sadhakAs

 

A number of postings on this subject has come in.

 

Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result'

 

With this and all other advices, Arjun asked -

 

atha kEnam prayuktho/yam

pApam charati pUrusha :

anichchhannapi vArshNeya

balAdiva niyOjitha :

 

 

hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin.

 

[hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai]

 

(Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape.

 

The immediate reaction came from Krishna -

 

kAma Esha krodha Esha

rajOguNa samulbhava

mahASanO mahA pApma

vidhyEna miha vairiNa:

 

hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs.

 

This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on.

 

All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita.

 

We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God.

 

best wishes

vijayanji

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PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

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Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------

 

Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

---------------

Narain ! Narain !!

 

The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death.

 

I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times?

 

Narain ! Narain !!

 

Naarad N Maharshi

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Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

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-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

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Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Respected Vijayanji/Sadhakji,

 

Namaskar,

 

I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive.

 

My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God.

 

NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER?

 

Regards,

 

Ruchira

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Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well … why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering … but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed … nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities … put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth … youwill see …We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence … I agree … but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess … but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana

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-Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).

--PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

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Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise â€" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “ (My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura

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Ram Ram

 

Namaste Ruchiraji,

Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.

 

Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.

 

There are 2 reasons of anger

1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)

2. Someone plays with our ego

 

Make sure that you are not causing these 2.

 

If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.

 

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

 

>-----------

Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.

I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".

Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------

Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Respected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.

Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well … why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.

If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???

If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!

My dear friend, nobody is hindering … but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed … nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities … put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth … youwill see …

We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence … I agree … but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...

No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess … but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...

Resoects

Naga Narayana

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji.

Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.

Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.

This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.

Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".

Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.

Thank you for responding to my post.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

---------

Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

---------------

Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

-

Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

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-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

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Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Many wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!

How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji. Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

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-Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise â€" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “ (My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura

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Ram Ram

Namaste Ruchiraji,

Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.

Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.

There are 2 reasons of anger

1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)

2. Someone plays with our ego

Make sure that you are not causing these 2.

If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

>-----------

Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.

I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".

Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------

Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Respected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.

Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well … why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.

If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???

If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!

My dear friend, nobody is hindering … but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed … nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities … put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth … youwill see …

We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence … I agree … but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...

No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess … but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...

Resoects

Naga Narayana

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji.

Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.

Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.

This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.

Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".

Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.

Thank you for responding to my post.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

---------

Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

---------------

Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

-

Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira

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NEW POSTING

Shree Hari Ram Ram

I am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.

Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !

Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER !

IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.

Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.html

It is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htm

June 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m.

Meera Das Ram Ram

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Namaste

 

Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.

Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic.

 

Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling Children Parents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them.

 

However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development.

 

One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.

Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently.

 

When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us.

 

Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life.

 

Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood.

 

Ram Ram

Deosaran Bisnath

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Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.

ns ramaswamy

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Many wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!

How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.

What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?

So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?

Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.

When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

------------

Hari Om

Ruchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--

-Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.

Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

-------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise â€" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “ (My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura

--------------------------

Ram Ram

Namaste Ruchiraji,

Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.

Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.

There are 2 reasons of anger

1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)

2. Someone plays with our ego

Make sure that you are not causing these 2.

If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

>-----------

Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.

I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".

Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------

Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Respected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.

Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well … why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.

If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???

If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!

My dear friend, nobody is hindering … but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed … nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities … put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth … youwill see …

We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence … I agree … but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...

No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess … but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...

Resoects

Naga Narayana

------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji.

Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.

Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.

This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.

Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".

Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.

Thank you for responding to my post.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

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Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

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Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

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-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

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You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

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PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

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Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

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Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira

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NEW POSTING

shree hari:

ram ram.

we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.

kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

We are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram

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Shree Hari Ram Ram

I am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.

Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !

Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER !

IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.

Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.html

It is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htm

June 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing. Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling Children Parents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness. Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy

-------------------------- PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Many wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!

How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.

What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?

So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?

Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.

When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.

Meera Das

Ram Ram

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Hari Om

Ruchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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-Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.

Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise â€" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “ (My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura

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Ram Ram

Namaste Ruchiraji,

Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.

Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.

There are 2 reasons of anger

1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)

2. Someone plays with our ego

Make sure that you are not causing these 2.

If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.

Hare Krishna

Varun P. Paprunia

>-----------

Shree Hari-

Dear Ruchira,

You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.

I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".

Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor-----------

Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan -------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Respected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.

Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well … why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.

If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???

If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!

My dear friend, nobody is hindering … but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed … nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities … put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth … youwill see …

We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence … I agree … but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...

No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess … but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...

Resoects

Naga Narayana

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-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji.

Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.

Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.

This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.

Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".

Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.

Thank you for responding to my post.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

---------

Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan

---------------

Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.

""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.

Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -

Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Desire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo

-

Dear Sadaks,

..In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana.

"These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.

In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.

In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.

2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.

Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,

Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'

I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).

The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.

The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?

My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.

Bhagavad Gita: 15

The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived–Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment– (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion–attachment conquered–Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities–pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)

Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.

I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.

Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.

Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.

I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike

---PRIOR POSTINGNamaste

As many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,â€"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram, Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------

namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,

First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.

I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.

Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.

Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.

Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.

In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.

God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.

Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.

Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.

Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.

Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures Etc

I can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"

If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.

Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.

Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.

Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much love

from catherine andersen

-----------

-Shree Hari-

Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.

Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One–He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)

Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).

I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).

There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.

The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.

I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.

[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....

I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.

The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.

This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

--

You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:

1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.

2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.

3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.

4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.

5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.

6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.

7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.

I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.

Basudeb Sen---------------

"As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is a convenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....

Sushil Jain

------

PRIOR POSTING

Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation. Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems! It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree Hari Ram Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.

Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....

It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at:

sadhaka/message/2176

sadhaka/message/2177

Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------

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Shree Hari Ram Ram Sadhaks, as far as possible, please kindly REFRAIN FROM too much PRAISING OR any CONDEMNING of other sadhaks. Thank you, From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram --------------------- Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,

Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,

Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine

to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She

has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of

Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest

lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of

imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine

Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance"

you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection".

(renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest

issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'.

(acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special (

VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine

Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and

thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the

temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and

with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You

invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/

situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself-

"dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag)

affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you

become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there. Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states: '

I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like

anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj

tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O

Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ? This

is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately

used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ? Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan

Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna

"The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring

and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa

Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created

Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to

Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.

Further Sri

Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they

should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the

success in the spiritual path. The

answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use

on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji

Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get

in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and

HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.

Sri

kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi

made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No

body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.

Sri

Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all

we have to do is let go. If there wasn't

a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my

anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion.

 

---------------

Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in

Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan

Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine

day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get

angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant

Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse.

Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha"

with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says,

"Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.

---------------

 

my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand

shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need

to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the

God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing

on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha'

philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and

follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond

sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so,

wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you

follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying

to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at

all. this is my humble opinion.

 

Regards,

Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best.

"S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE ! Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA. Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram Many wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji. Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram ------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ram Just like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ? Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge. Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam" If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam Ram Swamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ? Meera DasRam Ram -------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram Ram Please kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgement and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you, From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram ---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGHari OmUltimately,

everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate

from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why?

Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made

full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential.

Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things

which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited

things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to

fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should

not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them

is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B --Priy sadhak

Its difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.

Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?

That makes some sense.

Thanx

raja gurdasaniDear Sadhak

God has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in

Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human

birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do

good actions then you have chance to come to me.

If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.

From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence

for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God

ten you can easily control anger

Thanks

TRuly yours

S S Bhatt --NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and

critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions,

anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !

Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought -

effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in

the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere

(possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere

along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of

your nature crept into our social consciousness. The idea is

not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them

constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy

and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become

desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into

God consciousness.Hypothetically

- Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual

thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ?

Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife

wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is

busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !" Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go. If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best. "S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram RamPlease kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgement and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you, From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGIt is not about getting rid of Anger or any other emotion for that matter at all.

In fact, emotions have a role to play.

 

What is important is that we develop awareness and remain aware of these emotions

all the time. Just by being aware of these emotions as these start....dissolves them.

 

It may look absurd but that is the truth. Just by being aware,

all emotions including anger get dissolved at once. Nothing more has to

be done for getting rid of them........these are gone as soon as you

are aware....

 

Each emotion as it rises gives out a signal at feelings level

through our bodies. All we have to do is be aware....of this and pick

up the signal. .........this process of being aware, picking us the

signal at feelings level,......tells you that the direction is wrong or

right...... If feelings are of frustation, uneasiness, irritation,

sadness....etc.......(negative in short), then we get a message that it

is wrong and as soon as we are aware of this, emotions

dissolve/vanish.....

 

The important understanding behind this is

that we want to be happy all the time, we want happiness from whatever

we do....that is our aim beyond aim in whatever we do and want.....

 

This does not mean that the situation that is making us

emotional/angry has not to be dealt with. It only means that we must

handle all situation by keeping our happiness and peace.... This leads to an interesting definition of PAAPA and PUNYA........ Anything we do with happiness is PUNYA and rest is all PAAPA

 

So, start reading the signals our bodies give and be aware.....that we want happiness....all the times....and that we can be happy in adverse situations too....

 

Best wishes to all...

Sushil Jain------------------Hari OmWelcome Sadhak Dev Maharaj ! Here are my parawise observations on the subject.(Part reply)Q

Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ?

These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !A

Because these thoughts end up in strengthening my attachment with the

world. These thoughts create "desires" which are obstacles in my path

of emancipation viz in the very purpose for which the human birth has

been given to me. These thoughts thus play a role of my enemy and I am

justified in throwing them away, if necessary, even forcibly/by doing

sadhana and I should be firm in this respect. Anger causes

delusion, from delusion arises confusion of memory , from confusion of

memory grows loss of discrimnation, and from loss of discrimination, I

get ruined. Hence I want to get rid of anger. This entire process of

getting angry to ruin, starts with thoughts referred by you and with

similar thoughts about worldly people/things/activities !Thoughts >> Sankalpa >> Desire >> non fulfilment of desire >>anger >>delusion >>confusion of memory >>loss of discrimination>> FALL !Thoughts >> Sankalpa>>Desire>>fulfilment of desire>> greed >>delusion >>confusion of memory >> loss of discrimination >> FALL ! God

has not given these "thoughts" ! These are not natural also. These

originate out of our "mine-ness" with mind/world and stick with us only

when we pay respect to these thoughts. God has given us a machine

called mind. It is up to us to make good or misutilization of the same.

The purpose of God classifying humans ( all living forms) into males

and females is to continue with Creation. There are norms in that

respect. We should know and respect them.Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadaks,

Desire is a tool to use for welfare of whole world/whole country/whole family.

Bagavan desire to incarnate and save Adhram (injustice) and bring in Dhrarm

(Justice). Was it not Bagavan desire to protect Pandavas and destroy Duryodhan

and his supporters. Why should HE take much strain to teach Geetha? �Bagavan Sri Krishna or Sri Rama had desires

NOT for THEMSELVES but for others.

Anger:: Did not Bagavan take chariot wheel towards Bheesma? Did not Bagavan

tell Arjuna to send arrows on Karn while he was lifting his chariot stuck in

cracked earth? Did not Bagavan took Nurshima Avathar to make the word of

Prahalad true that Bagavan exits in pillar (Achetan (inert) says sadaks ) is

pillar inert- Bagavan not there) Anger was used for Baktha as one sadak said.

Jealous:: This is required to aid Adharmic (unrightious) person, so that he

digs his own grave. Nicely said in Bible: "Man who lives by sword will die

by sword". This quality is very important for wrong doers. So it is given

to them. (human)

 

Sri Dev Maharaj said was very logical and accepted by

sastras. Desire Etc we either use excessively or against sastras. Most men

force their wives for their conveniences, which is wrong desire. But if wife

and husband mutually agree on a dharmic desire, it is right. Sometimes desires

are to be sacrificed for sake of parents, friends, relatives, neighbors, duty binding.

Choose to be sanyasin before marriage to be desireless. Budha, Tukaram, Sri

Ragavendar, got married, but gave child to their wives and knew that to continue

desire will lead to worldliness, took consent from wife and became saints. �Use desire etc for Vairag was correct. Desire purely

(not expecting something) to reach divinity. This animals cannot use in

general, except in very rare case, like Sant Gynaneswar had talking Buffalo as

his Guru. Buffalo Samadhi is there or Gajendra the elephant. But see numerous

saints in south india.

But we use desire etc crudely and

excessively.

Some sadaks say surrender. It is true, if you are prepared

without least desire to live and having Gyan that death may come anytime.

Srimath Bagavath says, if desire, anger etc not rooted in mind and left then

and there and not carried over next hour, (like small children do) it does not

affect a person. Since those are carried for long time developing Vasana,

causes obstruction to reach Bagavan

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmUltimately, everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why? Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential. Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--Priy sadhakIts difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?That makes some sense.Thanxraja gurdasaniDear SadhakGod has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do good actions then you have chance to come to me.If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God ten you can easily control angerThanksTRuly yoursS S Bhatt--NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose ! Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !" Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go.If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best."S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram RamPlease kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgement and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you,From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER?Regards,Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGShree Hari Ram Ram Is the anger that you want to get rid off in you???? But Gita clearly states that you are neither the mind nor the intellect, therefore the anger is not in you. Self is entirely apart from Mind/Intellect. Swamiji gives an amazing example....If dog expresses anger about something then what difference does it make to you? The way our relationship is with dog's mind and intellect similarly our relationship should be with our "so called" mind / intellect. Now why don't you

worry about the anger in dog's mind-intellect? This is because you have not accepted the dog's mind-intellect as your own. The point here is that to accept mind-intellect as your own and that the anger is in you, is the main mistake. How very amazing is this point... Swamiji has freed us from all worries, all fears, all doubts, all regrets, so effortlessly by this very simple INSIGHT / revelation. Let us know if you have any more doubts on this topic. Meera Das, Ram Ram Ruchira jee,

 

Anger cannot be gotten rid of .This is the True answer .

Sushil Jain has given the answer.................if an answer you want.

 

If the Truth is

realized....you move into the domain of the self that

you are ................ there the whole play of emotions and

sentiments ( including anger ) only serve the play of the Self. the self

remains untouched .This is the state that all Yogis seek. This is also

called Death of the self unto the Self, or self-realization .

 

Even so, do keep trying various ways

suggested by dear sadhaks. The world thrives on trying ,on Hope. The

Drama goes on and on.... and this is the the Joy of Life .This

is Life. At some point of Life ,the true question,the only true

Question............" who am I , who keeps trying and trying,and keeps

sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing........................who

am I ??? "

 

This question becomes the paramount longing. Every situation is turned into this search. This becomes THE SADHNA

..... This becomes your

Meditation,while your life is lived in accordance with the guidance of

the Shastras .

 

By and By , all gets understood. And,This understanding means ........ expressing your understanding in action. Love Blossoms . To this Love,anger bows; it surrenders, it becomes Love's slave !

 

When the Self is known, all is known. All gets accomplished by the Self ! By itself!

 

Seeking the Blessings of the Knowers of

Truth is the way. Being in the company of the Sages and Saints is the

Way.

 

Nanak Says :

"There are so many Siddhas, seekers, Yogis, wandering pilgrims, spiritual teachers and good people. In meeting them, I chant the Lord's Praises, and then, my mind serves Him.

|| 3 || Paper and salt, protected by ghee, remain untouched by water,

as the lotus remains unaffected in water. Those who meet with such

devotees, O servant Nanak - what can death do to them? "

 

Narinder can see beautiful flowers

blossoming in the self you are .......................... blessings of

all the buddhas be with you......

 

Aum

narinder bhandari----------------------------Hari Om

Sadhak Devji Maharaj. Continuing replies

to your Qs:

Q Think for a second if you

have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD

! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able

to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by

teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the

ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.

Ans. No ! Devji Maharaj !! In fact, you are DEAD when you have ego. In

fact, ego , is inert (jad). Ego is affinity with the inert, hence affinity with

DEAD. Affinity with non existent ! Therefore ACTUALLY reverse is scenario. (

Peculiar is this world, isn’t it?) World does not exist at all. Egolessness or

desirelessness or thoughtlessness does not make you DEAD, but make you

“sentient†( chetan ), which you actually are. Your this view that without ego

a human cannot function is totally erroneous. In fact real “functioning†comes

only upon your shedding the ego. Where is the Q of going to a cave? Does not

mind, body, intellect, ego remain with you there also? You are right, that this

type of interpretation ( which you have taken, not which you presume Saints

and Sages/ Scriptures have taken) is NOT AT ALL intended by teachers of old.

Hence you must get rid of this view point. When you are equanimous, you don’t

have ego ! Ego is of two kinds. One- I EXIST â€" pure and simple. This is not to

be dropped. You cant drop it. No body wants you to drop it. Neither Gita nor

Scriptures , no one ! Two- Second type of ego consists of “me†and “mine†with

reference to the world. It consists of “likings and dislikings†towards the

world. This ego MUST GO ! Rather from this ego â€" the WORLD ( inert/prakruti)

part MUST GO !

Hence while I EXIST remains always, but beyond that from “me and mine

towards the world “ is changed/purified/eliminated. A Bhakti Yogi CHANGES me

and mine ( Only God is mine , nothing else is mine), . A Karma Yogi PURIFIES

me and mine ( I don’t have to do anything for myself). A Jnana Yogi ELIMINATES

me and mine ( I dont do anything). All three eliminate ultimately the WORLD’s

AFFINITY stationed in EGO .

Please ask Questions unhesitantly. I shall be pleased to clarify.

THINK: Had it not been possible to be egoless , would Gitaji have recommended

us to be so?

Balance later.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B --- Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?

 

The TRUTH is UN-KNOWABLE !!!!The simple truth of Being; Expressed simply as a silent affirmation , “ I am †Inexpressible and un-understandable does become ------------- The tedious quest of the Mind ! And the endless Search begins ! Into the truth of Truth ! Karma… Bhakti… Gyana….. Tapa and Japa All searching futile, all seeking frustration ; All ‘doing’, a tedium All 'knowing', a myth ; ............Tired and listless,at last ............. The Search drops! And Lo ! The simple truth of Being; Lies bare and ever revealed The self indeed is Annatta; The Not-self , verily the self ! The two are; In truth, not â€"two ! The ‘I am’ rises as the song; The 'I am’ flowers as the dance The I am , indeed, is the blossom; That is karma; That is Bhakti ; That is Gyana ; That is Japa and Tapa Is the Joy of Silence , Whence all disappear unto the Truth The simple truth of Being Ever known,yet Un-knowable !!

AUM

narinder --PRIOR POSTINGIt is not about getting rid of Anger or any other emotion for that matter at all. In fact, emotions have a role to play. What is important is that we develop awareness and remain aware of these emotionsall the time. Just by being aware of these emotions as these start....dissolves them. It may look absurd but that is the truth. Just by being aware, all emotions including anger get dissolved at once. Nothing more has to be done for getting rid of them........these are gone as soon as you are aware.... Each emotion as it rises gives out a signal at feelings level through our bodies. All we have to do is be aware....of this and pick up the signal. .........this process of being aware, picking us the signal at feelings level,......tells you that the direction is wrong or right...... If feelings are of frustration, uneasiness, irritation, sadness....etc.......(negative in short), then we get a message that it is wrong and as soon as we are aware of this, emotions dissolve/vanish..... The important understanding behind this is that we want to be happy all the time, we want happiness from whatever we do....that is our aim beyond aim in whatever we do and want..... This does not mean that the situation that is making us emotional/angry has not to be dealt with. It only means that we must handle all situation by keeping our happiness and peace.... This leads to an interesting definition of PAAPA and PUNYA........ Anything we do with happiness is PUNYA and rest is all PAAPA So, start reading the signals our bodies give and be aware.....that we want happiness....all the times....and that we can be happy in adverse situations too.... Best wishes to all...Sushil Jain------------------Hari OmWelcome Sadhak Dev Maharaj ! Here are my parawise observations on the subject.(Part reply)Q Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !A Because these thoughts end up in strengthening my attachment with the world. These thoughts create "desires" which are obstacles in my path of emancipation viz in the very purpose for which the human birth has been given to me. These thoughts thus play a role of my enemy and I am justified in throwing them away, if necessary, even forcibly/by doing sadhana and I should be firm in this respect.Anger causes delusion, from delusion arises confusion of memory , from confusion of memory grows loss of discrimination, and from loss of discrimination, I get ruined. Hence I want to get rid of anger. This entire process of getting angry to ruin, starts with thoughts referred by you and with similar thoughts about worldly people/things/activities !Thoughts >> Sankalpa >> Desire >> non fulfilment of desire >>anger >>delusion >>confusion of memory >>loss of discrimination>> FALL !Thoughts >> Sankalpa>>Desire>>fulfilment of desire>> greed >>delusion >>confusion of memory >> loss of discrimination >> FALL !God has not given these "thoughts" ! These are not natural also. These originate out of our "mine-ness" with mind/world and stick with us only when we pay respect to these thoughts. God has given us a machine called mind. It is up to us to make good or misutilization of the same. The purpose of God classifying humans ( all living forms) into males and females is to continue with Creation. There are norms in that respect. We should know and respect them.Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadaks,Desire is a tool to use for welfare of whole world/whole country/whole family. Bagavan desire to incarnate and save Adhram (injustice) and bring in Dhrarm (Justice). Was it not Bagavan desire to protect Pandavas and destroy Duryodhan and his supporters. Why should HE take much strain to teach Geetha? �Bagavan Sri Krishna or Sri Rama had desires NOT for THEMSELVES but for others.Anger:: Did not Bagavan take chariot wheel towards Bheesma? Did not Bagavan tell Arjuna to send arrows on Karn while he was lifting his chariot stuck in cracked earth? Did not Bagavan took Nurshima Avathar to make the word of Prahalad true that Bagavan exits in pillar (Achetan (inert) says sadaks ) is pillar inert- Bagavan not there) Anger was used for Baktha as one sadak said.Jealous:: This is required to aid Adharmic (unrightious) person, so that he digs his own grave. Nicely said in Bible: "Man who lives by sword will die by sword". This quality is very important for wrong doers. So it is given to them. (human)Sri Dev Maharaj said was very logical and accepted by sastras. Desire Etc we either use excessively or against sastras. Most men force their wives for their conveniences, which is wrong desire. But if wife and husband mutually agree on a dharmic desire, it is right. Sometimes desires are to be sacrificed for sake of parents, friends, relatives, neighbors, duty binding. Choose to be sanyasin before marriage to be desireless. Budha, Tukaram, Sri Ragavendar, got married, but gave child to their wives and knew that to continue desire will lead to worldliness, took consent from wife and became saints. �Use desire etc for Vairag was correct. Desire purely (not expecting something) to reach divinity. This animals cannot use in general, except in very rare case, like Sant Gynaneswar had talking Buffalo as his Guru. Buffalo Samadhi is there or Gajendra the elephant. But see numerous saints in south india.But we use desire etc crudely and excessively.Some sadaks say surrender. It is true, if you are prepared without least desire to live and having Gyan that death may come anytime. Srimath Bagavath says, if desire, anger etc not rooted in mind and left then and there and not carried over next hour, (like small children do) it does not affect a person. Since those are carried for long time developing Vasana, causes obstruction to reach BagavanJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmUltimately, everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why? Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential. Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--Priy sadhakIts difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?That makes some sense.Thanxraja gurdasaniDear SadhakGod has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do good actions then you have chance to come to me.If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God ten you can easily control angerThanksTRuly yoursS S Bhatt--NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose ! Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !"Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go.If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best."S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram RamPlease kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgment and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you,From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER?Regards,Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGHare KrishnaDear Devji,The Ego is only "sense of I" but it is not the "I" (self). The trouble comes when you assume "sense of I" is "real I". Many

times this Ego will get manifested as pride, arrogance, desire etc.. and a feeling

of seperation with the rest of the beings will be felt.If the

Ego gets "hurt" (for example you have pride about yourself (self

importance) and due to whatever reason if someone crosses your way,

knowingly or unknowingly do against your expectation) then you will

start singing the song!! This is "anger". Two things essentially

happens when you are angry. One you forget who you are, second you

forget who is the other person is. See the very "sense of I" you tried

to preserve becomes "senseless I"!! This is what the scriptures say as

"delusion" and now this Ego is just an "Illution".. The

delusion will lead you to complete ruin (ruin of intelligence, memory,

knowledge, sanity..everything- Ref Bhagavath Gita 2.62-63). It is an illusion because it never

existed in the first place. As Swamiji says "'Egoism' (sense

of I) really does not exist in the Self, it is merely assumed in the

Self. If it had really existed, we could not have been free from egoism

and Bhagavaan (the Lord) would have also not told us to be free from

egoism".Humbly

 

Venu Gopal-----------------------------Narain ! Narain !!

 

Ego has often been described in the Scriptures to be a ghost. It

does not exist but still it controls a human's entire karma. Similarly

these angers, jeolosies, these habits DO NOT EXIST . We presume it to

be existing. Hence Param Shraddheya Swamiji insists ALWAYS that please

do not accept it. But unfortunately not only we accept them in us, we

also feel that we can assign some role in the movie that we ( actually

mind) are playing in a fantasy land- "Castles in the

Air" . Rehabilitation is a must for such castle builders. Yogis do not

seek to play and expect that whole lot of emotions (anger) etc will

play a supporting role and Yogi with his all might remain untouched

like lotus in water. The fact is that Yogi is already playing in the

hands of these emotions. His duty is now to get rid of them. He can not

make even an attempt to do that, if he believes that these things

cannot be relinquished. THIS IS JNANA !

 

Narain ! Narain !!

 

Naarad N Maharishi--Radhey ! Radhey !!

 

Certainly, the SELF is stainless ! The very association with Gunas

makes this Sahaj Sukhraasi stoop to the level of slave. The goal of

human life is to rise above them. Even a subtle thought that these

Gunas will be like puppets in the hands of Self is..... representatrive

of ego. This is very dangerous approach. By love or hate , a

relationship is a relationship. Sadhaks should be very cautious on

these fronts. Dog has come into home, it shall go away. Never try to

make it a pet and presume that you shall ever be able to master it. You

cant .... because it changes ! It is the very tool through which you

operate. SHUN IT ! Straight away.... Simply dont accept it in you....

matter ends. I agree with Miraji , the very talk about it is

unnecessary. To think that Self is playing a drama and these creatures

like anger, jeolosy will have a role to play- is riding the tiger.

This is "concession" granted to Gunas, a respect , a

recognition to them apparently by SELF but actually by MIND.. Read

carefully what Swamiji writes. READ ! READ !! READ !!!! O Divine

Sadhaks. Never in your dreams think that you will be able to control

these Gunas. You can not. There is no provision made for it. If you do

so - End Result: " KHUD NAACHE SAPERA" - the snake catcher will start

dancing on the tunes of snake. In fact, now also he is dancing on the

tunes of mind only. He is presuming that he is making the snake dance.

 

Radhey ! Radhey !!

 

Nisha Chatterji---Jai Shree Krishna

 

The statement that "anger cant be relinquished ' or "you cant get

rid of it" is totally incorrect. At least two dozen verses of Holy Gita

alone will get proved wrong , if one agrees with this statement. As

Miraji Dass stated these Gunas belong to Prakruti, mind, intellect,

body, ego...... but not to self. In the domain of Self , in the home of

SELF they are like dogs entering.. These dogs do not become owners of

home. Refer BG 14:22 ! Rising above them should be our goal, but making

them support us in the play of SELF is rather too much of a hope. SELF

must understand that this very dependence on them is called

BONDAGE. Self must realise that it is because of association with them

only the chains of birth and death arise. It is fundamental knowledge.

Thanks Miraji Dass ! We can only keep repeating, repeating and

repeating.

 

Swami Rupesh Kumar----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari Ram RamIs the anger that you want to get rid off in you???? But Gita clearly states that you are neither the mind nor the intellect, therefore the anger is not in you. Self is entirely apart from Mind/Intellect. Swamiji gives an amazing example....If dog expresses anger about something then what difference does it make to you? The way our relationship is with dog's mind and intellect similarly our relationship should be with our "so called" mind / intellect. Now why don't youworry about the anger in dog's mind-intellect? This is because you have not accepted the dog's mind-intellect as your own. The point here is that to accept mind-intellect as your own and that the anger is in you, is the main mistake. How very amazing is this point... Swamiji has freed us from all worries, all fears, all doubts, all regrets, so effortlessly by this very simple INSIGHT / revelation. Let us know if you have any more doubts on this topic. Meera Das, Ram Ram Ruchira jee, Anger cannot be gotten rid of .This is the True answer .Sushil Jain has given the answer.................if an answer you want. If the Truth is realized....you move into the domain of the self that you are ................ there the whole play of emotions and sentiments ( including anger ) only serve the play of the Self. the self remains untouched .This is the state that all Yogis seek. This is also called Death of the self unto the Self, or self-realization . Even so, do keep trying various ways suggested by dear sadhaks. The world thrives on trying ,on Hope. The Drama goes on and on.... and this is the the Joy of Life .This is Life. At some point of Life ,the true question,the only true Question............" who am I , who keeps trying and trying,and keeps sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing........................who am I ??? " This question becomes the paramount longing. Every situation is turned into this search. This becomes THE SADHNA .... This becomes your Meditation,while your life is lived in accordance with the guidance of the Shastras . By and By , all gets understood. And,This understanding means ........ expressing your understanding in action. Love Blossoms . To this Love,anger bows; it surrenders, it becomes Love's slave ! When the Self is known, all is known. All gets accomplished by the Self ! By itself! Seeking the Blessings of the Knowers of Truth is the way. Being in the company of the Sages and Saints is the Way. Nanak Says :"There are so many Siddhas, seekers, Yogis, wandering pilgrims, spiritual teachers and good people. In meeting them, I chant the Lord's Praises, and then, my mind serves Him. || 3 || Paper and salt, protected by ghee, remain untouched by water, as the lotus remains unaffected in water. Those who meet with such devotees, O servant Nanak - what can death do to them? " Narinder can see beautiful flowers blossoming in the self you are .......................... blessings of all the buddhas be with you...... Aumnarinder bhandari----------------------------Hari OmSadhak Devji Maharaj. Continuing replies to your Qs:Q Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.Ans. No ! Devji Maharaj !! In fact, you are DEAD when you have ego. In fact, ego , is inert (jad). Ego is affinity with the inert, hence affinity with DEAD. Affinity with non existent ! Therefore ACTUALLY reverse is scenario. ( Peculiar is this world, isn’t it?) World does not exist at all. Egolessness or desirelessness or thoughtlessness does not make you DEAD, but make you “sentient†( chetan ), which you actually are. Your this view that without ego a human cannot function is totally erroneous. In fact real “functioning†comes only upon your shedding the ego. Where is the Q of going to a cave? Does not mind, body, intellect, ego remain with you there also? You are right, that this type of interpretation ( which you have taken, not which you presume Saints and Sages/ Scriptures have taken) is NOT AT ALL intended by teachers of old. Hence you must get rid of this view point. When you are equanimous, you don’t have ego ! Ego is of two kinds. One- I EXIST â€" pure and simple. This is not to be dropped. You cant drop it. No body wants you to drop it. Neither Gita nor Scriptures , no one ! Two- Second type of ego consists of “me†and “mine†with reference to the world. It consists of “likings and dislikings†towards the world. This ego MUST GO ! Rather from this ego â€" the WORLD ( inert/prakruti) part MUST GO !Hence while I EXIST remains always, but beyond that from “me and mine towards the world “ is changed/purified/eliminated. A Bhakti Yogi CHANGES me and mine ( Only God is mine , nothing else is mine), . A Karma Yogi PURIFIES me and mine ( I don’t have to do anything for myself). A Jnana Yogi ELIMINATES me and mine ( I dont do anything). All three eliminate ultimately the WORLD’s AFFINITY stationed in EGO .Please ask Questions unhesitantly. I shall be pleased to clarify. THINK: Had it not been possible to be egoless , would Gitaji have recommended us to be so?Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--- Desires, emotions, anger all things given why? The TRUTH is UN-KNOWABLE !!!!The simple truth of Being; Expressed simply as a silent affirmation , “ I am â€Inexpressible and un-understandable does become -------------The tedious quest of the Mind !And the endless Search begins ! Into the truth of Truth !Karma… Bhakti… Gyana….. Tapa and JapaAll searching futile, all seeking frustration ; All ‘doing’, a tediumAll 'knowing', a myth ; ............Tired and listless,at last .............The Search drops! And Lo !The simple truth of Being; Lies bare and ever revealedThe self indeed is Annatta; The Not-self , verily the self !The two are; In truth, not â€"two !The ‘I am’ rises as the song; The 'I am’ flowers as the danceThe I am , indeed, is the blossom; That is karma; That is Bhakti ; That is Gyana ; That is Japa and TapaIs the Joy of Silence ,Whence all disappear unto the TruthThe simple truth of BeingEver known,yet Un-knowable !!AUMnarinder--PRIOR POSTINGIt is not about getting rid of Anger or any other emotion for that matter at all.In fact, emotions have a role to play. What is important is that we develop awareness and remain aware of these emotionsall the time. Just by being aware of these emotions as these start....dissolves them. It may look absurd but that is the truth. Just by being aware, all emotions including anger get dissolved at once. Nothing more has to be done for getting rid of them........these are gone as soon as you are aware.... Each emotion as it rises gives out a signal at feelings level through our bodies. All we have to do is be aware....of this and pick up the signal. .........this process of being aware, picking us the signal at feelings level,......tells you that the direction is wrong or right...... If feelings are of frustration, uneasiness, irritation, sadness....etc.......(negative in short), then we get a message that it is wrong and as soon as we are aware of this, emotions dissolve/vanish..... The important understanding behind this is that we want to be happy all the time, we want happiness from whatever we do....that is our aim beyond aim in whatever we do and want..... This does not mean that the situation that is making us emotional/angry has not to be dealt with. It only means that we must handle all situation by keeping our happiness and peace.... This leads to an interesting definition of PAAPA and PUNYA........ Anything we do with happiness is PUNYA and rest is all PAAPA So, start reading the signals our bodies give and be aware.....that we want happiness....all the times....and that we can be happy in adverse situations too.... Best wishes to all...Sushil Jain------------------Hari OmWelcome Sadhak Dev Maharaj ! Here are my parawise observations on the subject.(Part reply)Q Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !A Because these thoughts end up in strengthening my attachment with the world. These thoughts create "desires" which are obstacles in my path of emancipation viz in the very purpose for which the human birth has been given to me. These thoughts thus play a role of my enemy and I am justified in throwing them away, if necessary, even forcibly/by doing sadhana and I should be firm in this respect.Anger causes delusion, from delusion arises confusion of memory , from confusion of memory grows loss of discrimination, and from loss of discrimination, I get ruined. Hence I want to get rid of anger. This entire process of getting angry to ruin, starts with thoughts referred by you and with similar thoughts about worldly people/things/activities !Thoughts >> Sankalpa >> Desire >> non fulfilment of desire >>anger >>delusion >>confusion of memory >>loss of discrimination>> FALL !Thoughts >> Sankalpa>>Desire>>fulfilment of desire>> greed >>delusion >>confusion of memory >> loss of discrimination >> FALL !God has not given these "thoughts" ! These are not natural also. These originate out of our "mine-ness" with mind/world and stick with us only when we pay respect to these thoughts. God has given us a machine called mind. It is up to us to make good or misutilization of the same. The purpose of God classifying humans ( all living forms) into males and females is to continue with Creation. There are norms in that respect. We should know and respect them.Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadaks,Desire is a tool to use for welfare of whole world/whole country/whole family. Bagavan desire to incarnate and save Adhram (injustice) and bring in Dhrarm (Justice). Was it not Bagavan desire to protect Pandavas and destroy Duryodhan and his supporters. Why should HE take much strain to teach Geetha? �Bagavan Sri Krishna or Sri Rama had desires NOT for THEMSELVES but for others.Anger:: Did not Bagavan take chariot wheel towards Bheesma? Did not Bagavan tell Arjuna to send arrows on Karn while he was lifting his chariot stuck in cracked earth? Did not Bagavan took Nurshima Avathar to make the word of Prahalad true that Bagavan exits in pillar (Achetan (inert) says sadaks ) is pillar inert- Bagavan not there) Anger was used for Baktha as one sadak said.Jealous:: This is required to aid Adharmic (unrightious) person, so that he digs his own grave. Nicely said in Bible: "Man who lives by sword will die by sword". This quality is very important for wrong doers. So it is given to them. (human)Sri Dev Maharaj said was very logical and accepted by sastras. Desire Etc we either use excessively or against sastras. Most men force their wives for their conveniences, which is wrong desire. But if wife and husband mutually agree on a dharmic desire, it is right. Sometimes desires are to be sacrificed for sake of parents, friends, relatives, neighbors, duty binding. Choose to be sanyasin before marriage to be desireless. Budha, Tukaram, Sri Ragavendar, got married, but gave child to their wives and knew that to continue desire will lead to worldliness, took consent from wife and became saints. �Use desire etc for Vairag was correct. Desire purely (not expecting something) to reach divinity. This animals cannot use in general, except in very rare case, like Sant Gynaneswar had talking Buffalo as his Guru. Buffalo Samadhi is there or Gajendra the elephant. But see numerous saints in south india.But we use desire etc crudely and excessively.Some sadaks say surrender. It is true, if you are prepared without least desire to live and having Gyan that death may come anytime. Srimath Bagavath says, if desire, anger etc not rooted in mind and left then and there and not carried over next hour, (like small children do) it does not affect a person. Since those are carried for long time developing Vasana, causes obstruction to reach BagavanJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmUltimately, everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why? Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential. Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--Priy sadhakIts difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?That makes some sense.Thanxraja gurdasaniDear SadhakGod has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do good actions then you have chance to come to me.If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God ten you can easily control angerThanksTRuly yoursS S Bhatt--NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose ! Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !"Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go.If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best."S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram RamPlease kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgment and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you,From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER?Regards,Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGHari OmAmazing ! Incredible! Unbelievable ! The affinity is too thick. Master (SELF) becomes the slave; and slaves (BODY,MIND,INTELLECT,EGO) become the master !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-----Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira Namaskar,I would like to give you some practical examples on how to deal with anger.My immediate boss of yesteryear came storming in, and yelled, "You have nothingbut contempt for my authority",(a misunderstanding), I took a step back, put myhands in my pocket, and said "I have contempt for no one", (true).The other day someone backed into my car, damaged my rear end, he was at fault,but technically we were both at fault unless one can prove otherwise. I got outof my car, he came to me a little red in the face, I looked at him, opened myarms palms upward, and simply said,"What can I say, nothing to be said", justgot on with taking details.Anger is a monster of the Ego, don't think I am saying I am a really cool dude,but I have learned to 'leave my sword over the mantle piece' as it were. Only bythe love of 'The Divine Beloved', can I do this.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (K)---------------------Hari OmSuperb message by Venu Gopalji ! Consider the following:'Two

things essentially happens when you are angry. One you forget who you

are, second you forget who is the other person is. See the very "sense

of I" you tried to preserve becomes "senseless I"!! This is what the

scriptures say as "delusion".'Right you are , Sir ! Thanks. Indeed, you forget "I" when angry. Great observation.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

-----------------------Hari OmDevji Maharaj ! Now your last Q ! 'The

idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them

constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy

and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become

desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God

consciousness. Hypothetically - Think about if one is married

and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who

may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be

very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife

commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual

thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring,

ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might

get it !" 'Your effort to "manage them and to use

them constructively" presumes your first accepting their association

with you. Hence as Nishaji Chatterji told elsewhere in this forum it is

"riding the tiger". Why you should do that? What constructive use you

can make of such emotions? Simply don't accept their presence in you

and you are even otherwise free. Why you should first commit error and

then plan management of the same? It is your mind speaking Devji

Maharaj- not soul.As regards "wife commiting adultery" - this Q

does not arise if you do your role with a pious intention. Who has

prevented you from indulging into physical union, provided it is as per

Dharma? If inspite of that, merely because you are walking on the path

of righteous conduct, she becomes infidel... What can you do? How does

that then affect you? You are not sinning. You have no control over

others? Do you have?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHare KrishnaDear Devji,The Ego is only "sense of I" but it is not the "I" (self).The trouble comes when you assume "sense of I" is "real I".Many times this Ego will get manifested as pride, arrogance, desire etc.. and a feeling of seperation with the rest of the beings will be felt.If the Ego gets "hurt" (for example you have pride about yourself (self importance) and due to whatever reason if someone crosses your way, knowingly or unknowingly do against your expectation) then you will start singing the song!! This is "anger". Two things essentially happens when you are angry. One you forget who you are, second you forget who is the other person is. See the very "sense of I" you tried to preserve becomes "senseless I"!! This is what the scriptures say as "delusion" and now this Ego is just an "Illution".. The delusion will lead you to complete ruin (ruin of intelligence, memory, knowledge, sanity..everything- Ref Bhagavath Gita 2.62-63). It is an illusion because it never existed in the first place. As Swamiji says "'Egoism' (sense of I) really does not exist in the Self, it is merely assumed in the Self. If it had really existed, we could not have been free from egoism and Bhagavaan (the Lord) would have also not told us to be free from egoism".HumblyVenu Gopal-----------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Ego has often been described in the Scriptures to be a ghost. It does not exist but still it controls a human's entire karma. Similarly these angers, jeolosies, these habits DO NOT EXIST . We presume it to be existing. Hence Param Shraddheya Swamiji insists ALWAYS that please do not accept it. But unfortunately not only we accept them in us, we also feel that we can assign some role in the movie that we ( actually mind) are playing in a fantasy land- "Castles in the Air" . Rehabilitation is a must for such castle builders. Yogis do not seek to play and expect that whole lot of emotions (anger) etc will play a supporting role and Yogi with his all might remain untouched like lotus in water. The fact is that Yogi is already playing in the hands of these emotions. His duty is now to get rid of them. He can not make even an attempt to do that, if he believes that these things cannot be relinquished. THIS IS JNANA ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi--Radhey ! Radhey !! Certainly, the SELF is stainless ! The very association with Gunas makes this Sahaj Sukhraasi stoop to the level of slave. The goal of human life is to rise above them. Even a subtle thought that these Gunas will be like puppets in the hands of Self is..... representatrive of ego. This is very dangerous approach. By love or hate , a relationship is a relationship. Sadhaks should be very cautious on these fronts. Dog has come into home, it shall go away. Never try to make it a pet and presume that you shall ever be able to master it. You cant .... because it changes ! It is the very tool through which you operate. SHUN IT ! Straight away.... Simply dont accept it in you.... matter ends. I agree with Miraji , the very talk about it is unnecessary. To think that Self is playing a drama and these creatures like anger, jeolosy will have a role to play- is riding the tiger. This is "concession" granted to Gunas, a respect , a recognition to them apparently by SELF but actually by MIND.. Read carefully what Swamiji writes. READ ! READ !! READ !!!! O Divine Sadhaks. Never in your dreams think that you will be able to control these Gunas. You can not. There is no provision made for it. If you do so - End Result: " KHUD NAACHE SAPERA" - the snake catcher will start dancing on the tunes of snake. In fact, now also he is dancing on the tunes of mind only. He is presuming that he is making the snake dance. Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji---Jai Shree Krishna The statement that "anger cant be relinquished ' or "you cant get rid of it" is totally incorrect. At least two dozen verses of Holy Gita alone will get proved wrong , if one agrees with this statement. As Miraji Dass stated these Gunas belong to Prakruti, mind, intellect, body, ego...... but not to self. In the domain of Self , in the home of SELF they are like dogs entering.. These dogs do not become owners of home. Refer BG 14:22 ! Rising above them should be our goal, but making them support us in the play of SELF is rather too much of a hope. SELF must understand that this very dependence on them is called BONDAGE. Self must realise that it is because of association with them only the chains of birth and death arise. It is fundamental knowledge. Thanks Miraji Dass ! We can only keep repeating, repeating and repeating. Swami Rupesh Kumar----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari Ram RamIs the anger that you want to get rid off in you???? But Gita clearly states that you are neither the mind nor the intellect, therefore the anger is not in you. Self is entirely apart from Mind/Intellect. Swamiji gives an amazing example....If dog expresses anger about something then what difference does it make to you? The way our relationship is with dog's mind and intellect similarly our relationship should be with our "so called" mind / intellect. Now why don't youworry about the anger in dog's mind-intellect? This is because you have not accepted the dog's mind-intellect as your own. The point here is that to accept mind-intellect as your own and that the anger is in you, is the main mistake.How very amazing is this point... Swamiji has freed us from all worries, all fears, all doubts, all regrets, so effortlessly by this very simple INSIGHT / revelation. Let us know if you have any more doubts on this topic.Meera Das, Ram RamRuchira jee, Anger cannot be gotten rid of .This is the True answer .Sushil Jain has given the answer.................if an answer you want. If the Truth is realized....you move into the domain of the self that you are ................ there the whole play of emotions and sentiments ( including anger ) only serve the play of the Self. the self remains untouched .This is the state that all Yogis seek. This is also called Death of the self unto the Self, or self-realization . Even so, do keep trying various ways suggested by dear sadhaks. The world thrives on trying ,on Hope. The Drama goes on and on.... and this is the the Joy of Life .This is Life. At some point of Life ,the true question,the only true Question............" who am I , who keeps trying and trying,and keeps sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing........................who am I ??? " This question becomes the paramount longing. Every situation is turned into this search. This becomes THE SADHNA .... This becomes your Meditation,while your life is lived in accordance with the guidance of the Shastras . By and By , all gets understood. And,This understanding means ........ expressing your understanding in action. Love Blossoms . To this Love,anger bows; it surrenders, it becomes Love's slave ! When the Self is known, all is known. All gets accomplished by the Self ! By itself! Seeking the Blessings of the Knowers of Truth is the way. Being in the company of the Sages and Saints is the Way. Nanak Says :"There are so many Siddhas, seekers, Yogis, wandering pilgrims, spiritual teachers and good people. In meeting them, I chant the Lord's Praises, and then, my mind serves Him. || 3 || Paper and salt, protected by ghee, remain untouched by water, as the lotus remains unaffected in water. Those who meet with such devotees, O servant Nanak - what can death do to them? " Narinder can see beautiful flowers blossoming in the self you are .......................... blessings of all the buddhas be with you...... Aumnarinder bhandari----------------------------Hari OmSadhak Devji Maharaj. Continuing replies to your Qs:Q Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.Ans. No ! Devji Maharaj !! In fact, you are DEAD when you have ego. In fact, ego , is inert (jad). Ego is affinity with the inert, hence affinity with DEAD. Affinity with non existent ! Therefore ACTUALLY reverse is scenario. ( Peculiar is this world, isn’t it?) World does not exist at all. Egolessness or desirelessness or thoughtlessness does not make you DEAD, but make you “sentient†( chetan ), which you actually are. Your this view that without ego a human cannot function is totally erroneous. In fact real “functioning†comes only upon your shedding the ego. Where is the Q of going to a cave? Does not mind, body, intellect, ego remain with you there also? You are right, that this type of interpretation ( which you have taken, not which you presume Saints and Sages/ Scriptures have taken) is NOT AT ALL intended by teachers of old. Hence you must get rid of this view point. When you are equanimous, you don’t have ego ! Ego is of two kinds. One- I EXIST â€" pure and simple. This is not to be dropped. You cant drop it. No body wants you to drop it. Neither Gita nor Scriptures , no one ! Two- Second type of ego consists of “me†and “mine†with reference to the world. It consists of “likings and dislikings†towards the world. This ego MUST GO ! Rather from this ego â€" the WORLD ( inert/prakruti) part MUST GO !Hence while I EXIST remains always, but beyond that from “me and mine towards the world “ is changed/purified/eliminated. A Bhakti Yogi CHANGES me and mine ( Only God is mine , nothing else is mine), . A Karma Yogi PURIFIES me and mine ( I don’t have to do anything for myself). A Jnana Yogi ELIMINATES me and mine ( I dont do anything). All three eliminate ultimately the WORLD’s AFFINITY stationed in EGO .Please ask Questions unhesitantly. I shall be pleased to clarify. THINK: Had it not been possible to be egoless , would Gitaji have recommended us to be so?Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--- Desires, emotions, anger all things given why? The TRUTH is UN-KNOWABLE !!!!The simple truth of Being; Expressed simply as a silent affirmation , “ I am â€Inexpressible and un-understandable does become -------------The tedious quest of the Mind !And the endless Search begins ! Into the truth of Truth !Karma… Bhakti… Gyana….. Tapa and JapaAll searching futile, all seeking frustration ; All ‘doing’, a tediumAll 'knowing', a myth ; ............Tired and listless,at last .............The Search drops! And Lo !The simple truth of Being; Lies bare and ever revealedThe self indeed is Annatta; The Not-self , verily the self !The two are; In truth, not â€"two !The ‘I am’ rises as the song; The 'I am’ flowers as the danceThe I am , indeed, is the blossom;That is karma; That is Bhakti ; That is Gyana ; That is Japa and TapaIs the Joy of Silence ,Whence all disappear unto the TruthThe simple truth of BeingEver known,yet Un-knowable !!AUMnarinder--PRIOR POSTINGIt is not about getting rid of Anger or any other emotion for that matter at all.In fact, emotions have a role to play. What is important is that we develop awareness and remain aware of these emotionsall the time. Just by being aware of these emotions as these start....dissolves them. It may look absurd but that is the truth. Just by being aware, all emotions including anger get dissolved at once. Nothing more has to be done for getting rid of them........these are gone as soon as you are aware.... Each emotion as it rises gives out a signal at feelings level through our bodies. All we have to do is be aware....of this and pick up the signal. .........this process of being aware, picking us the signal at feelings level,......tells you that the direction is wrong or right...... If feelings are of frustration, uneasiness, irritation, sadness....etc.......(negative in short), then we get a message that it is wrong and as soon as we are aware of this, emotions dissolve/vanish..... The important understanding behind this is that we want to be happy all the time, we want happiness from whatever we do....that is our aim beyond aim in whatever we do and want..... This does not mean that the situation that is making us emotional/angry has not to be dealt with. It only means that we must handle all situation by keeping our happiness and peace.... This leads to an interesting definition of PAAPA and PUNYA........ Anything we do with happiness is PUNYA and rest is all PAAPA So, start reading the signals our bodies give and be aware.....that we want happiness....all the times....and that we can be happy in adverse situations too.... Best wishes to all...Sushil Jain------------------Hari OmWelcome Sadhak Dev Maharaj ! Here are my parawise observations on the subject.(Part reply)Q Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !A Because these thoughts end up in strengthening my attachment with the world. These thoughts create "desires" which are obstacles in my path of emancipation viz in the very purpose for which the human birth has been given to me. These thoughts thus play a role of my enemy and I am justified in throwing them away, if necessary, even forcibly/by doing sadhana and I should be firm in this respect.Anger causes delusion, from delusion arises confusion of memory , from confusion of memory grows loss of discrimination, and from loss of discrimination, I get ruined. Hence I want to get rid of anger. This entire process of getting angry to ruin, starts with thoughts referred by you and with similar thoughts about worldly people/things/activities !Thoughts >> Sankalpa >> Desire >> non fulfilment of desire >>anger >>delusion >>confusion of memory >>loss of discrimination>> FALL !Thoughts >> Sankalpa>>Desire>>fulfilment of desire>> greed >>delusion >>confusion of memory >> loss of discrimination >> FALL !God has not given these "thoughts" ! These are not natural also. These originate out of our "mine-ness" with mind/world and stick with us only when we pay respect to these thoughts. God has given us a machine called mind. It is up to us to make good or misutilization of the same. The purpose of God classifying humans ( all living forms) into males and females is to continue with Creation. There are norms in that respect. We should know and respect them.Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadaks,Desire is a tool to use for welfare of whole world/whole country/whole family. Bagavan desire to incarnate and save Adhram (injustice) and bring in Dhrarm (Justice). Was it not Bagavan desire to protect Pandavas and destroy Duryodhan and his supporters. Why should HE take much strain to teach Geetha? �Bagavan Sri Krishna or Sri Rama had desires NOT for THEMSELVES but for others.Anger:: Did not Bagavan take chariot wheel towards Bheesma? Did not Bagavan tell Arjuna to send arrows on Karn while he was lifting his chariot stuck in cracked earth? Did not Bagavan took Nurshima Avathar to make the word of Prahalad true that Bagavan exits in pillar (Achetan (inert) says sadaks ) is pillar inert- Bagavan not there) Anger was used for Baktha as one sadak said.Jealous:: This is required to aid Adharmic (unrightious) person, so that he digs his own grave. Nicely said in Bible: "Man who lives by sword will die by sword". This quality is very important for wrong doers. So it is given to them. (human)Sri Dev Maharaj said was very logical and accepted by sastras. Desire Etc we either use excessively or against sastras. Most men force their wives for their conveniences, which is wrong desire. But if wife and husband mutually agree on a dharmic desire, it is right. Sometimes desires are to be sacrificed for sake of parents, friends, relatives, neighbors, duty binding. Choose to be sanyasin before marriage to be desireless. Budha, Tukaram, Sri Ragavendar, got married, but gave child to their wives and knew that to continue desire will lead to worldliness, took consent from wife and became saints. �Use desire etc for Vairag was correct. Desire purely (not expecting something) to reach divinity. This animals cannot use in general, except in very rare case, like Sant Gynaneswar had talking Buffalo as his Guru. Buffalo Samadhi is there or Gajendra the elephant. But see numerous saints in south india.But we use desire etc crudely and excessively.Some sadaks say surrender. It is true, if you are prepared without least desire to live and having Gyan that death may come anytime. Srimath Bagavath says, if desire, anger etc not rooted in mind and left then and there and not carried over next hour, (like small children do) it does not affect a person. Since those are carried for long time developing Vasana, causes obstruction to reach BagavanJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmUltimately, everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why? Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential. Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--Priy sadhakIts difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?That makes some sense.Thanxraja gurdasaniDear SadhakGod has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do good actions then you have chance to come to me.If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God ten you can easily control angerThanksTRuly yoursS S Bhatt--NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose ! Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !"Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go.If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best."S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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Shree Hari Ram RamPlease kindly REFRAIN FROM CONDEMNING any sadhaks. It is difficult for us to screen every posting, and we trust you all to use proper judgment and RESPECT all sadhaks. Thank you,From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram---------------------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation or realisation. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans? HE is very benovolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we are having them. What?B.SathyanarayanNEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER?Regards,Ruchira-------------------------NEW POSTINGJai Shree Krishnayes as humans we are

given sensual desires to rise above them.We have ego,anger, fear.worry,

jealousy. If we do not rise above them and have pride and desires for

sensual pleasure and/or for worldly accumulation of wealth we denigrate

and degrade Self. Desire and sin continues and pride along with it to

degrade us.Anger is a passion that blinds one to see truly what are the

fruitages of its aftermath with wars and fighting and non cohesiveness

among mankind. Why my brothers and sisters? Are we not better than this

to abstain from what is degrading to us? When one has these emotions of

negativity, sensual desires, anger one forgets Paramaatma, one forgets

Vasudev Sarvam. Why have an affinity for sensual pleasure when there

should be no likes/dwesh? What is useful in anger? What has been of no

use to us but to use it as a stepping stone to grow to the peace that

is all encompassing.I pray God never let us forget you, let all my

brothers and sisters grow closer to you every day and help us all in

rising in love for you and rising in love for all of mankindcatherine

(to get rid of anger pray please never let me forget you even for a

moment,my Bhagwaan, sometimes through tears, sometimes by fasting as we

all stumble at times)catherine andersen---------

dear swami rupesh kumar jee,

 

what you say is true....................

 

but then, what narinder said is in no way different from what what you say..........please re-read the whole message

( The first sentence not isolated, but in the context of what follows

as elaboration of understanding )and find that what narinder and you

are speaking the same essence , in different words ,and from a

different point of the vision in the Kaleidoscope.

 

Only when the self is known,when

Mind is no more Mind , then a state is reached,when anger as it is

understood by all of us,dies. Now,all sentiments and emotions become

only a Play of the Self, to serve the Lord's overall design.The Self

remains untouched.

 

Each shaloka of Bhagvada Geetha is

true ................. and holds a lesson (Siksha) for a particular

Sadhak at a particular point in his spiritual journey. And ,as a

sadhaka evolves, he imbibes the Siksha into his intuitive conduct in

action. He is now ready for the next step. As he climbs the ladder of

spirituality,the previous step, having served its purpose, becomes ( in

a way ) redundent.The next becomes his action and understanding .

Finally comes a stage,when with just One more Step, the Sadhak remains

a Sadhak no more................ he becomes a Siddha....... he becomes

enlightened . Ignorance is no more . All questions drop. He now beams

his light for the others to move out of their self-created darkness or

ignorance.

 

No step was ever ' untrue' or not needed. Each was important only at a particular period of time .

And yet, many of the shalokas ,isolated from the context ,in which they appear,could be wrongly interpreted by the MInd.

Only when the self is known, does one

begin to understand the true context of the words of the scriptures. It

is then the words themselves reveal the true meaning. This

Self-Realisation is what each one of us is aiming at. And it is the

enlightened , who competently guide each person ,one to one. Hence

,the importance of being in touch with an enlightened master.The

enlightened master keeps untying the knots of ignorance in the

sishya,knot by knot. He enables the Sishya to understand each nuance of

Life that Excistence presents in the Totality of the Play, and ,thus,

become enlightened.

narinder feels happy that Rupesh jee shares with us his thoughts and light.Thank you.

AUM

narinder==================================PRIOR POSTINGHari OmAmazing ! Incredible! Unbelievable ! The affinity is too thick. Master (SELF) becomes the slave; and slaves (BODY,MIND,INTELLECT,EGO) become the master !!Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-----Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira Namaskar,I would like to give you some practical examples on how to deal with anger.My immediate boss of yesteryear came storming in, and yelled, "You have nothingbut contempt for my authority",(a misunderstanding), I took a step back, put myhands in my pocket, and said "I have contempt for no one", (true).The other day someone backed into my car, damaged my rear end, he was at fault,but technically we were both at fault unless one can prove otherwise. I got outof my car, he came to me a little red in the face, I looked at him, opened myarms palms upward, and simply said,"What can I say, nothing to be said", justgot on with taking details.Anger is a monster of the Ego, don't think I am saying I am a really cool dude,but I have learned to 'leave my sword over the mantle piece' as it were. Only bythe love of 'The Divine Beloved', can I do this.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (K)---------------------Hari OmSuperb message by Venu Gopalji ! Consider the following:'Two things essentially happens when you are angry. One you forget who you are, second you forget who is the other person is. See the very "sense of I" you tried to preserve becomes "senseless I"!! This is what the scriptures say as "delusion".'Right you are , Sir ! Thanks. Indeed, you forget "I" when angry. Great observation.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-----------------------Hari OmDevji Maharaj ! Now your last Q !'The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !" 'Your effort to "manage them and to use them constructively" presumes your first accepting their association with you. Hence as Nishaji Chatterji told elsewhere in this forum it is "riding the tiger". Why you should do that? What constructive use you can make of such emotions? Simply don't accept their presence in you and you are even otherwise free. Why you should first commit error and then plan management of the same? It is your mind speaking Devji Maharaj- not soul.As regards "wife commiting adultery" - this Q does not arise if you do your role with a pious intention. Who has prevented you from indulging into physical union, provided it is as per Dharma? If inspite of that, merely because you are walking on the path of righteous conduct, she becomes infidel... What can you do? How does that then affect you? You are not sinning. You have no control over others? Do you have?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHare KrishnaDear Devji,The Ego is only "sense of I" but it is not the "I" (self).The trouble comes when you assume "sense of I" is "real I".Many times this Ego will get manifested as pride, arrogance, desire etc.. and a feeling of seperation with the rest of the beings will be felt.If the Ego gets "hurt" (for example you have pride about yourself (self importance) and due to whatever reason if someone crosses your way, knowingly or unknowingly do against your expectation) then you will start singing the song!! This is "anger". Two things essentially happens when you are angry. One you forget who you are, second you forget who is the other person is. See the very "sense of I" you tried to preserve becomes "senseless I"!! This is what the scriptures say as "delusion" and now this Ego is just an "Illution".. The delusion will lead you to complete ruin (ruin of intelligence, memory, knowledge, sanity..everything- Ref Bhagavath Gita 2.62-63). It is an illusion because it never existed in the first place. As Swamiji says "'Egoism' (sense of I) really does not exist in the Self, it is merely assumed in the Self. If it had really existed, we could not have been free from egoism and Bhagavaan (the Lord) would have also not told us to be free from egoism".HumblyVenu Gopal-----------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Ego has often been described in the Scriptures to be a ghost. It does not exist but still it controls a human's entire karma. Similarly these angers, jeolosies, these habits DO NOT EXIST . We presume it to be existing. Hence Param Shraddheya Swamiji insists ALWAYS that please do not accept it. But unfortunately not only we accept them in us, we also feel that we can assign some role in the movie that we ( actually mind) are playing in a fantasy land- "Castles in the Air" . Rehabilitation is a must for such castle builders. Yogis do not seek to play and expect that whole lot of emotions (anger) etc will play a supporting role and Yogi with his all might remain untouched like lotus in water. The fact is that Yogi is already playing in the hands of these emotions. His duty is now to get rid of them. He can not make even an attempt to do that, if he believes that these things cannot be relinquished. THIS IS JNANA ! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharishi--Radhey ! Radhey !! Certainly, the SELF is stainless ! The very association with Gunas makes this Sahaj Sukhraasi stoop to the level of slave. The goal of human life is to rise above them. Even a subtle thought that these Gunas will be like puppets in the hands of Self is..... representatrive of ego. This is very dangerous approach. By love or hate , a relationship is a relationship. Sadhaks should be very cautious on these fronts. Dog has come into home, it shall go away. Never try to make it a pet and presume that you shall ever be able to master it. You cant .... because it changes ! It is the very tool through which you operate. SHUN IT ! Straight away.... Simply dont accept it in you.... matter ends. I agree with Miraji , the very talk about it is unnecessary. To think that Self is playing a drama and these creatures like anger, jeolosy will have a role to play- is riding the tiger. This is "concession" granted to Gunas, a respect , a recognition to them apparently by SELF but actually by MIND.. Read carefully what Swamiji writes. READ ! READ !! READ !!!! O Divine Sadhaks. Never in your dreams think that you will be able to control these Gunas. You can not. There is no provision made for it. If you do so - End Result: " KHUD NAACHE SAPERA" - the snake catcher will start dancing on the tunes of snake. In fact, now also he is dancing on the tunes of mind only. He is presuming that he is making the snake dance. Radhey ! Radhey !! Nisha Chatterji---Jai Shree Krishna The statement that "anger cant be relinquished ' or "you cant get rid of it" is totally incorrect. At least two dozen verses of Holy Gita alone will get proved wrong , if one agrees with this statement. As Miraji Dass stated these Gunas belong to Prakruti, mind, intellect, body, ego...... but not to self. In the domain of Self , in the home of SELF they are like dogs entering.. These dogs do not become owners of home. Refer BG 14:22 ! Rising above them should be our goal, but making them support us in the play of SELF is rather too much of a hope. SELF must understand that this very dependence on them is called BONDAGE. Self must realise that it is because of association with them only the chains of birth and death arise. It is fundamental knowledge. Thanks Miraji Dass ! We can only keep repeating, repeating and repeating. Swami Rupesh Kumar----------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari Ram RamIs the anger that you want to get rid off in you???? But Gita clearly states that you are neither the mind nor the intellect, therefore the anger is not in you. Self is entirely apart from Mind/Intellect. Swamiji gives an amazing example....If dog expresses anger about something then what difference does it make to you? The way our relationship is with dog's mind and intellect similarly our relationship should be with our "so called" mind / intellect. Now why don't youworry about the anger in dog's mind-intellect? This is because you have not accepted the dog's mind-intellect as your own. The point here is that to accept mind-intellect as your own and that the anger is in you, is the main mistake.How very amazing is this point... Swamiji has freed us from all worries, all fears, all doubts, all regrets, so effortlessly by this very simple INSIGHT / revelation. Let us know if you have any more doubts on this topic.Meera Das, Ram RamRuchira jee, Anger cannot be gotten rid of .This is the True answer .Sushil Jain has given the answer.................if an answer you want. If the Truth is realized....you move into the domain of the self that you are ................ there the whole play of emotions and sentiments ( including anger ) only serve the play of the Self. the self remains untouched .This is the state that all Yogis seek. This is also called Death of the self unto the Self, or self-realization . Even so, do keep trying various ways suggested by dear sadhaks. The world thrives on trying ,on Hope. The Drama goes on and on.... and this is the the Joy of Life .This is Life. At some point of Life ,the true question,the only true Question............" who am I , who keeps trying and trying,and keeps sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing........................who am I ??? " This question becomes the paramount longing. Every situation is turned into this search. This becomes THE SADHNA .... This becomes your Meditation,while your life is lived in accordance with the guidance of the Shastras . By and By , all gets understood. And,This understanding means ........ expressing your understanding in action. Love Blossoms . To this Love,anger bows; it surrenders, it becomes Love's slave ! When the Self is known, all is known. All gets accomplished by the Self ! By itself! Seeking the Blessings of the Knowers of Truth is the way. Being in the company of the Sages and Saints is the Way. Nanak Says :"There are so many Siddhas, seekers, Yogis, wandering pilgrims, spiritual teachers and good people. In meeting them, I chant the Lord's Praises, and then, my mind serves Him. || 3 || Paper and salt, protected by ghee, remain untouched by water, as the lotus remains unaffected in water. Those who meet with such devotees, O servant Nanak - what can death do to them? " Narinder can see beautiful flowers blossoming in the self you are .......................... blessings of all the buddhas be with you...... Aumnarinder bhandari----------------------------Hari OmSadhak Devji Maharaj. Continuing replies to your Qs:Q Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.Ans. No ! Devji Maharaj !! In fact, you are DEAD when you have ego. In fact, ego , is inert (jad). Ego is affinity with the inert, hence affinity with DEAD. Affinity with non existent ! Therefore ACTUALLY reverse is scenario. ( Peculiar is this world, isn’t it?) World does not exist at all. Egolessness or desirelessness or thoughtlessness does not make you DEAD, but make you “sentient†( chetan ), which you actually are. Your this view that without ego a human cannot function is totally erroneous. In fact real “functioning†comes only upon your shedding the ego. Where is the Q of going to a cave? Does not mind, body, intellect, ego remain with you there also? You are right, that this type of interpretation ( which you have taken, not which you presume Saints and Sages/ Scriptures have taken) is NOT AT ALL intended by teachers of old. Hence you must get rid of this view point. When you are equanimous, you don’t have ego ! Ego is of two kinds. One- I EXIST �" pure and simple. This is not to be dropped. You cant drop it. No body wants you to drop it. Neither Gita nor Scriptures , no one ! Two- Second type of ego consists of “me†and “mine†with reference to the world. It consists of “likings and dislikings†towards the world. This ego MUST GO ! Rather from this ego �" the WORLD ( inert/prakruti) part MUST GO !Hence while I EXIST remains always, but beyond that from “me and mine towards the world “ is changed/purified/eliminated. A Bhakti Yogi CHANGES me and mine ( Only God is mine , nothing else is mine), . A Karma Yogi PURIFIES me and mine ( I don’t have to do anything for myself). A Jnana Yogi ELIMINATES me and mine ( I dont do anything). All three eliminate ultimately the WORLD’s AFFINITY stationed in EGO .Please ask Questions unhesitantly. I shall be pleased to clarify. THINK: Had it not been possible to be egoless , would Gitaji have recommended us to be so?Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--- Desires, emotions, anger all things given why? The TRUTH is UN-KNOWABLE !!!!The simple truth of Being; Expressed simply as a silent affirmation , “ I am â€Inexpressible and un-understandable does become -------------The tedious quest of the Mind !And the endless Search begins ! Into the truth of Truth !Karma… Bhakti… Gyana….. Tapa and JapaAll searching futile, all seeking frustration ; All ‘doing’, a tediumAll 'knowing', a myth ; ............Tired and listless,at last .............The Search drops! And Lo !The simple truth of Being; Lies bare and ever revealedThe self indeed is Annatta; The Not-self , verily the self !The two are; In truth, not �"two !The ‘I am’ rises as the song; The 'I am’ flowers as the danceThe I am , indeed, is the blossom;That is karma; That is Bhakti ; That is Gyana ; That is Japa and TapaIs the Joy of Silence ,Whence all disappear unto the TruthThe simple truth of BeingEver known,yet Un-knowable !!AUMnarinder--PRIOR POSTINGIt is not about getting rid of Anger or any other emotion for that matter at all.In fact, emotions have a role to play. What is important is that we develop awareness and remain aware of these emotionsall the time. Just by being aware of these emotions as these start....dissolves them. It may look absurd but that is the truth. Just by being aware, all emotions including anger get dissolved at once. Nothing more has to be done for getting rid of them........these are gone as soon as you are aware.... Each emotion as it rises gives out a signal at feelings level through our bodies. All we have to do is be aware....of this and pick up the signal. .........this process of being aware, picking us the signal at feelings level,......tells you that the direction is wrong or right...... If feelings are of frustration, uneasiness, irritation, sadness....etc.......(negative in short), then we get a message that it is wrong and as soon as we are aware of this, emotions dissolve/vanish..... The important understanding behind this is that we want to be happy all the time, we want happiness from whatever we do....that is our aim beyond aim in whatever we do and want..... This does not mean that the situation that is making us emotional/angry has not to be dealt with. It only means that we must handle all situation by keeping our happiness and peace.... This leads to an interesting definition of PAAPA and PUNYA........ Anything we do with happiness is PUNYA and rest is all PAAPA So, start reading the signals our bodies give and be aware.....that we want happiness....all the times....and that we can be happy in adverse situations too.... Best wishes to all...Sushil Jain------------------Hari OmWelcome Sadhak Dev Maharaj ! Here are my parawise observations on the subject.(Part reply)Q Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose !A Because these thoughts end up in strengthening my attachment with the world. These thoughts create "desires" which are obstacles in my path of emancipation viz in the very purpose for which the human birth has been given to me. These thoughts thus play a role of my enemy and I am justified in throwing them away, if necessary, even forcibly/by doing sadhana and I should be firm in this respect.Anger causes delusion, from delusion arises confusion of memory , from confusion of memory grows loss of discrimination, and from loss of discrimination, I get ruined. Hence I want to get rid of anger. This entire process of getting angry to ruin, starts with thoughts referred by you and with similar thoughts about worldly people/things/activities !Thoughts >> Sankalpa >> Desire >> non fulfilment of desire >>anger >>delusion >>confusion of memory >>loss of discrimination>> FALL !Thoughts >> Sankalpa>>Desire>>fulfilment of desire>> greed >>delusion >>confusion of memory >> loss of discrimination >> FALL !God has not given these "thoughts" ! These are not natural also. These originate out of our "mine-ness" with mind/world and stick with us only when we pay respect to these thoughts. God has given us a machine called mind. It is up to us to make good or misutilization of the same. The purpose of God classifying humans ( all living forms) into males and females is to continue with Creation. There are norms in that respect. We should know and respect them.Balance later.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------Dear Sadaks,Desire is a tool to use for welfare of whole world/whole country/whole family. Bagavan desire to incarnate and save Adhram (injustice) and bring in Dhrarm (Justice). Was it not Bagavan desire to protect Pandavas and destroy Duryodhan and his supporters. Why should HE take much strain to teach Geetha? �Bagavan Sri Krishna or Sri Rama had desires NOT for THEMSELVES but for others.Anger:: Did not Bagavan take chariot wheel towards Bheesma? Did not Bagavan tell Arjuna to send arrows on Karn while he was lifting his chariot stuck in cracked earth? Did not Bagavan took Nurshima Avathar to make the word of Prahalad true that Bagavan exits in pillar (Achetan (inert) says sadaks ) is pillar inert- Bagavan not there) Anger was used for Baktha as one sadak said.Jealous:: This is required to aid Adharmic (unrightious) person, so that he digs his own grave. Nicely said in Bible: "Man who lives by sword will die by sword". This quality is very important for wrong doers. So it is given to them. (human)Sri Dev Maharaj said was very logical and accepted by sastras. Desire Etc we either use excessively or against sastras. Most men force their wives for their conveniences, which is wrong desire. But if wife and husband mutually agree on a dharmic desire, it is right. Sometimes desires are to be sacrificed for sake of parents, friends, relatives, neighbors, duty binding. Choose to be sanyasin before marriage to be desireless. Budha, Tukaram, Sri Ragavendar, got married, but gave child to their wives and knew that to continue desire will lead to worldliness, took consent from wife and became saints. �Use desire etc for Vairag was correct. Desire purely (not expecting something) to reach divinity. This animals cannot use in general, except in very rare case, like Sant Gynaneswar had talking Buffalo as his Guru. Buffalo Samadhi is there or Gajendra the elephant. But see numerous saints in south india.But we use desire etc crudely and excessively.Some sadaks say surrender. It is true, if you are prepared without least desire to live and having Gyan that death may come anytime. Srimath Bagavath says, if desire, anger etc not rooted in mind and left then and there and not carried over next hour, (like small children do) it does not affect a person. Since those are carried for long time developing Vasana, causes obstruction to reach BagavanJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGHari OmUltimately, everything including sattwik, rajasic and tamasic attributes emanate from Him only. But still a classification thereof is warranted . Why? Because "Self" has been made devoid of them. Prakruti has been made full of them. "Disconnection" of "Self" with Prakruti is essential. Hence, There are things which should be avoided, and there are things which should be adopted. There are allowed as well as prohibited things, inspite of all emanating from Paramatma. Sadhak's job is not to fall in the trap of what is obstacle. "Tayorna vashmagachhet" We should not get swayed by them. The methodology of not getting swayed by them is "non-acceptance" of them in you. As simple as that !Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B--Priy sadhakIts difficult in pradtical but practice makes it.Whenever we get angry we must think If i were in the other person's shoes what would I be thinking?That makes some sense.Thanxraja gurdasaniDear SadhakGod has given good qualities and evil qualities narrated in Chapter XVI of Bhagavata Gita. Please note when God gave this human birth ,at that God has told us to follow good conduct of life ,and do good actions then you have chance to come to me.If we can control anger by using our mind properly then we can control anger By spiritual observances we can control anger.From my points of view if we meditate regularly,observe silence for more time,if we do malas on a specific mantra and have faith in God ten you can easily control angerThanksTRuly yoursS S Bhatt--NamasteI want you to think about this very seriously and critically. Why do you want to get rid of sexual thoughts, emotions, anger etc ? These are natural and God gave them to you for a purpose ! Think for a second if you have no ego, no emotion, no thought - effectively you would be DEAD ! You would not be able to function in the real world, you might be able to exist in a cave somewhere (possibly). This is not what was intended by teachers of old, somewhere along the line this idea that you have to kill the ego and get rid of your nature crept into our social consciousness.The idea is not to get rid of them but to manage them and to use them constructively in transforming yourself into a higher state of energy and consciousness ( this is vairagya). To kill the ego is to become desireless which is useful only for being absorbed into God consciousness.Hypothetically - Think about if one is married and wants to get rid of sexual thoughts, what happens to the wife who may have sexual desires ? Shouldn't one get a divorce ( this would be very unfair to your wife wouldn't it ? ) ? What about if the wife commits adultery while one is busily trying to get rid of sexual thoughts ? We need to think very carefully about what we are desiring, ever hear the saying " Be careful of what you pray for you just might get it !"Dev Maharaj----------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected all Sadakas,Namaskar and thanks to you all for your valuable advices. I shall definitely try them and will come to you.Thanks again and regards,Ruchira------------------------------Hari OmIt is so divine to find our Miraji Dass taking on the Qs with surgical precision. She has never been less than perfect nor irrelevant. That is touch of Swamiji. In Swamiji's writings too you NEVER find even the slightest lack of clarity or even confusion or controversy what to talk of imperfection or untruth. My pranaams to her.Indeed, Divine Sadhaks, it is all game of "acceptance" ! It is only by "acceptance" you adopt the world,(and faults) and it is by "rejection". (renunciation/ Tyaag) you can go back to your originality. In latest issue of Kalyaan Magazine Swamiji said that the "words 'sveekriti'. (acceptance) and 'asveekriti'. (rejection/tyaag) appear very special ( VILAKSHAN) to me " !It is all magic of acceptance, Divine Sadhaks. You accept affinity with the world , you become 'bound' and thereupon the properties of 'dukhalayam' haunt you non stop- the temporariness, the rise, setting, birth, death, getting, loosing and with those waves come naturally anger, greed, pride, jeolosy etc . You invariably lose peace and are sorrowful in all the circumstances/ situations. You accept affinity with God, you become Divine yourself- "dukhalayam" gets converted into "Vasudev Sarvam" ! You reject (tyaag) affinity with the world, you become "liberated" and instantly you become "peaceful" - not a trace of sorrow anywhere there.Hence don't accept faults in yourself and they vanish in thin air ! As simple as that !In above referred article in Kalyaan Magazine, Swamiji states:' I am of God' after this acceptance if you see any 'vikaar" (fault like anger, pride, etc) in yourself call out to God and say - "Jaayegi laaj tihari Nath mero kaa bigadego" - You shall lose shame (respect) , O Nath(Lord)! What shall I lose ?This is "VILAKSHAN". (special/typical- a very frequently and affectionately used word by Swamiji in His discourses)- isn't it Divine Sadhaks ?Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B-------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Madan Kaura said in his posting:,The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here.". Swamy Veda Vyas (Vyasa Roopaya Vishnuve) Srimath Bagavath 2nd Skandha says, Bagavan has created Rajas-Tamas-Satva and mixed them in certain proportions, later handed over to Bhramaji to commence creation. So Rajas was given by Bagavan.Further Sri Madan said,: Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. The answer is that he gave with example on Bagavan Vital. So anger is tool to use on ourself when our thoughts divulge from Paramathuma. He also said, Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda. The 3 Karmas are controlled by Paramathuma and HE is the giver of Pala for them says Vedas.Sri kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam, anger etc are not given by GOD. God in prakurthi made them. We aquire them based on our Karmas which are controlled by God. No body really speaking wants to accept them, but then how it does not leave us.Sri Meera Das,said, We become trapped!!! all we have to do is let go.If there wasn't a trap we won't get trapped. Since I am unable to let go, I have to use my anger on me and strengthen my desire totally on God.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------Namsthe mr.satyanarayana ji, for your reply on my comments: this is my humble opinion. ---------------Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas.Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time,in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe" . Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.--------------- my humble opinion is: it may be good to understand shastras,restrictions by shastras/vedas ,satsang,guru etc ..but we need to eventually understand by own on 'analysis and understand' of the God/Supreme. Regarding Adi Shankaraa teaching: you are mainly focusing on advaitha philosophy. Some people may understand based on 'dvaitha' philosophy. We need to eventually go beyond all these preachings and follow the path what your heart feels. we even need to go beyond sastras/vedas/scriptures/even discussions/ to understand Supreme. so, wither you surrender your actions or u surrender yourself, either you follow adviatha,or either you follow dvaitha, the only thing is trying to understand that 'nothing moves with the power of that SUPREME' at all. this is my humble opinion. Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear Sadak,u have ask how to work on anger, simply accept that u have anger andobserve next time when u are getting angry and notice that your temperis rising ,when u are able to do that u will notice slowly your angeris reducing . it might take some time or more but one should not giveup.hope u overcome it and wish u all the best."S. R Amin"PRIOR POSTINGshree hari:ram ram.we aren't given desire, anger, jealousy, pride by God. if we don't accept these 'vikar' (changes/modifications) are in us, they won't affect us. that's all. {swamijee in 'nirdoshataakaa anubhava in Sahaj Saadhanaa pages 1 to 6}.kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam------Shree Hari Ram RamWe are "ishvar ansh .... amal, sahaj sukh raashi." Self is already flawless. Swamiji.,... gives the example of monkey.. who puts both his hands in a peanut bowl (with narrow head). The monkey grabs the peanuts with both hands and is stuck, unable to get his hands out of the narrow head. We too have grabbed on to desires, emotions, anger, wants, family, possessions, knowledge, position, name, fame, talent, organizations, etc etc........ and do not want to "let go of" release them.... We become trapped!!! Nothing is given to us... We want to hold on to something that is not in us, not ours and not us "Self" Just like the monkey. All the monkey has to do is release the peanuts from his hands and he is free !!!! We too ! all we have to do is let go (i.e. do not accept them in us) the desires, anger, jealousy, pride etc.....SIMPLY RELEASE THEM (DO NOT ACCEPT THEM IN YOU)! Meera Das, Ram Ram------------------------- -Shree Hari Ram RamI am sorry that this response is unrelated to the questions... but I could not help it.Swamiji's final discourse while on earth was about "DESIRES". He clearly said - HAVE NO DESIRES what so ever - NONE !Not of Enjoyment, Not of Moksha, Not of LOVE, Not of Bhakti (devotion), nor ANY OTHER ! IF YOU DESIRE NOTHING, THEN YOU WILL BE SITUATED (ESTABLISHED) IN PARAMATMA ALONE. WHEN EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO DESIRE? It is because we desire the world, therefore we are in the world. When there is no desires, then we will be in PARAMATMA.Those who can read Hindi, I would highly recommend you reading and contemplating on his final message while on earth... it is located at: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/eksantkivasiyat/main.htmlIt is on pages 14 and 15. You can also hear it in his own voice at:http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijicontent/11-2004_06-2005/cdrom/html/samagra.htmJune 30, 2005 at 11:00 a.m. Meera DasRam Ram ----Namaste Anger and Frustration result from failure to get what we want or to influence others into our beliefs, ideas, and philosophies. In the case of children, it is not because a child is born with anger or any other emotion; no, it is because of the child's upbringing.Children must not be spoilt and pampered or else we risk them growing into adulthood, still possessing the same attitudes and behavioral traits, thus unable to function and interface properly with others. Here is useful advice on this topic. Learned Self-Reliance - The Negative Effects of Spoiling ChildrenParents are moved by instinct to love, nurture, and provide for their offspring. Because our children are so much a part of us, we want to see them blissfully happy. Also, our own desire to be liked, materialist pressures, and a fervent wish that our children have everything we lacked as youngsters can prompt us to spoil them. However, while it might seem that buying your child expensive gifts will give them fond memories of childhood or that you can heal your emotional wounds by doting on your sons and daughters, you may be unconsciously interfering with your children's evolutional development. One of the most precious gifts you can grant your children is the true independence they gain when they learn to earn what they covet and become stewards of their own happiness.Try allowing your children to experience life to the fullest. Let them work and earn what they want. When the time comes for them to go to college and enter the workforce, you will havethe confidence that yo! u have raised a child that can both enter and contribute to society confidently. When children are not afforded the opportunity to explore self-reliance, to understand that with possession comes price, and to fulfill their own needs, they develop a sense of entitlement that blinds them to the necessity of hard work and the needs of others. We may spoil children because giving them gifts is pleasurable. Or we may want to avoid conflict out of fear that our children won't love us. Yet children who are given acceptance, love, and affection in abundance are often kinder, more charitable, and more responsible than those whose parents accede to their every material demand. They develop a strong sense of self that stretches beyond possessions and the approval of their peers, and as adults they understand that each individual is responsible for building the life they desire. If you find yourself giving in to your child's every whim, ask yourself why. You may discover that you are trying to answer for what you feel is lacking in your own life. Rearing your children to respect the value of money and self-sufficiency as they grow from infants to young adults is a challenging but rewarding process. It can be difficult to watch a child struggle to meet a personal goal yet wonderful to be by their side as they achieve it. Your choice not to spoil your children will bless you with more opportunities to show them understanding and compassion and to be fully present with them as they journey toward adulthood. Ram RamDeosaran Bisnath-------------------------Respected Sadhak ji, Thank you for sending me your messages of Gita and other Hindu Thoughts.We believe that Hindu rennaisance period has started, in spite of the psuedo-secular government, education system, media etc. I am 83 plus, and i do not have much time left to serve Bharatha Matha. But there are many young ones who would take care of our Mother. But we are surrounded by enemies and many millions are inside. India suffered for two tousand years. We hope that we would survive the present crisis.ns ramaswamy--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam RamMany wonderful points covered by several sadhaks along with Gita reference.. thank you !!!How to overcome Anger - this posting is a summary from Swamiji's book - "ART OF LIVING" by Swami Ramsukhdasji.Now the question is how to overcome anger? First think of how anger sprouts? According to the Gita, anger sprouts forth from desire. Men generally think that desire means the wish to gain money, property, material wealth etc. This is also desire, but the real desire is things should be favorable to us, they should happen our way. If things are not favorable to our will, our likes, we get angry.What right have we to get our desire satisfied by others without reciprocity? Let us not insist on getting our desires satisfied. The main reason for wanting to get our desires fulfilled, is our pride, a feeling of superiority. If we truly want peace, let us root out our pride because it is at the root of all demoniac traits. All the other demoniac traits of Kaliyuga such as anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy, fraud and hypocracy etc. depend on pride. Pride is where all of these malicious traits originate. So if we do not renounce pride, how can anger be overcome?So, what is the method to root out your pride? Simply speaking, those who disobey us and don't do as we wish, are helping us in rooting out our pride. While those who do as we wish, strengthen our pride. So in earnesty, those that disobey us, are actually our well-wishers. Therefore, if we want our welfare, it is beneficial for us that others do not do exactly as we wish. These individuals are helpful well-wishers in removing our pride. Though they intentionally are not wanting to remove our pride or do good to us, yet their disobedience, is weakening and removing our pride. Do we want our welfare and benediction? or do we want a downfall or boost in our evil tendencies?Gita says "Dambho darpobhmaanacsh krodha." (Gita 16:4). "Pretentious pride, conceit, arrogance, anger, harshness and ignorance arise in one born of demoniac nature." (Gita 16:4). Therefore those who disobey you are bringing forth divine virtues in you.When pride subsides, anger will automatically subside.Meera DasRam Ram------------Hari OmRuchiraji ! Children don't learn by giving "discourses" or by "talks". They learn by your "conduct". They have fantastic capacity of "observing". Hence if you want your daughter to shed anger, NEVER show anger or appear angry when she is around. Also, ensure children don't nurture inside them too many "desires". Fulfill them before they "arise", if possible. Say "no" politely but firmly to any "unreasonable" demands. Don't let desires to get rooted, get unfulfilled and thus let the same manifest by way of anger. Give without their demanding to the extent you can, what is necessary.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B---Shree Hari-Dear Ruchira,I think Sri Sathyanarayanji is on to something, steering away from Rajisticfoods definitely is good advice. Also consider this, when Gitaji was pennedthere was not the plethora of of chemical artificial abominations that arepassed off as food these days, good food often ruined.Take ice cream a lot of people enjoy ice cream, check the contents go for purity(no additives), get a book or look on the web, about food additives and theiraffects, it will make your hair stand on end.If you have the resources get your daughter checked out for food allergies, andperhaps also her hormones.An example; when my son was young he was found to be allergic to some foodadditives. One of my grandsons cannot be allowed to consume a certain worldwidegroup of beverages, if he sneaks some, the family know, he rapidly becomes hyperactive.Just a line of thought triggered by Brother Sathyanarayanji comments.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree Hari || Ram Ram || Dear Sathyanarayanaji, thanks for the question! Many good responses have been posted already, for the most part there seems to be general agreement among all that God did not give these to us, these are part of Prakriti (nature). Of course, everything is pervaded by God, in that sense these too are under His regime. These emotions neither are ours nor given to us by God since their intensity or degree always changes, they can also be eliminated, if they were ours we would not able to get rid of them. Desire and anger have become part of our nature (Swabhva) due to samskaras (impressions) accumulated from previous births. With the lack of awareness and the lack of satsang here in this life, we have assumed they are a permanent part of us and do not know how to deal with them. Gitaji proclaims beautifully in verses 2-62 & 63, step by step, how the anger arises, the exact sequence is given - "Brooding on the objects of the senses, man develops attachment to them; from attachment comes desire; from unfulfilled desire anger sprouts forth; from anger proceeds delusion ... memory loss,. . loss of reason ...leading to the fall of man." Also in Gitaji verse 3-36, Arjuna is asking "But, by what man is compelled to commit sin, as if driven by force, even against his will, O Varsneya (Krishna)?" The answer to 3-36 is given in 3-37 by Lord Krishna "The desire born of the mode of passion (Rajas), is anger, all devouring and most sinful. Know this to be the enemy here." This is clear that the desire is the root cause of anger. Swamiji Maharaj explained this point in many of his discourses that the things we get in life, are due to Prarabhda, when combined with the desire and the required effort, if one of these three is missing, we cannot get the object. So desire by itself does not serve any purpose. Yes, the effort should be made only considering this as a duty without any expectation of fruit because the fruit of the actions is beset with factors beyond our control (Gitaji: 2-47). Now, looking from another perspective, desire and anger are not always negative, they can be useful when used as a tool for constructive purposes in a controlled manner, for example, to reprimand a child or even an adult. But the anger should subside right after that moment. Also, to make it more effective, anger when followed by a softer emotion will work like a charm! Admittedly desire and anger are difficult to control but they should be directed towards God, then they become very powerful tools for the success in the spiritual path. Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansji used to say, another day has gone by, O Mother, why have you not appeared in front of me? I can't wait any longer! Another one, Naamdev got angry with Lord Bithala, “since you are not drinking the milk I offered, I am going break my head," Lord Bithala had to appear right then, keeping His promise �" “na me bhaktah pranasyati “(My devotee never perishes, Gitaji 9-31). (Good reference - Swami Ramsukhdasji's work in Hindi "Jivan Upyogi Parbachan"page 107, "Krodha par vijay kaise Ho") || Ram Ram || Humble regards,Madan Kaura--------------------------Ram RamNamaste Ruchiraji,Meditation is too big a deal for your daughter to accept it. Make her read spiritual books or ask her to read it to you. Initially it would be tough to dive in spirituality. It would be easy if she reads characters of devotees, saints and avatars. She would easily be able to understand it. When the interest is aroused give her books which give specific instructions to lead a spiritual life. Gitapress (www.gitapress.org) publishes many such books at subsidized prices. Books are also available in English.Or you can also listen to pravachans (free) on www.swamiramsukhdasji.org in hindi. If you like them and you think that your daughter would be able to digest them then also make her listen. If she speaks english, some interesting topics are covered and available at www.swamiramsukhdasji.net.There are 2 reasons of anger1. Whatever doesn't happen according to our wishes (Gita 3/37)2. Someone plays with our egoMake sure that you are not causing these 2.If your daughter ever wants approaches you and asks for some guidance to control her anger then tell her to IMMERSE herself in reading spiritual books (or listening pravachan) for atleast 30-45 minutes. After that tell her to compare her mental state to that of before reading/listening. I bet she will note a difference. Even you can try it out.Hare KrishnaVarun P. Paprunia>-----------Shree Hari- Dear Ruchira,You can't get your daughter to meditate, but you can meditate!I will explain; do not go into her territory, learn to create an invisible shield of tranquility about yourself, fierce anger has an energy of its own, do NOT let it penetrate into you.I was taught a very useful tool, and that is to return the aggression, back to the source, with the mind set of,"You do have problems don't you".Watch the fire go out, as you quietly observe the tantrum.Then repeat your request.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike Keenor-----------Dear Sadak Ruchira,Your daughter food makes her so. She definitely eats hot and masala foods. Sri Krishna says about food in Geetha. Gently says that her health is getting affected to extent to have ulcer. Slowly give vegatables, fruits, ice cream, etc.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------PRIOR POSTINGRespected Vijayanji/Sadhakji, Namaskar, I read what your have said and also agree. But these days, the children are very aggressive. My daughter at the age of 15+, often gets very angry. I cannot say that she is a bad girl. But why Sir? I think, this is neither good for her health nor for her future. People tell me ask her to do meditation. I could not make her do that. We cannot leave these anger to God. NEW QUESTION : Kindly give me some simple ways to get rid of ANGER? Regards, Ruchira---------Desires, emotions, anger all things given why?I would not agree that we really understand the statement, "God has given usdesire, anger, jealousy, pride etc." as much as we do not accept any statementsuch as, "God has given us body, mind, home, family, etc." either.Whatever is undesirable - it should be the act of that fellow. Who? I have noclue! Some god!!Whatever is desirable - well � why am I here? It is my act!!This is the "clever ignorance" we harbor to imbibe false identities on ourselvesas well as God.If we really understand that "things are given to us", we would not raise suchquestions of convenience to start with. If I know for sure that something isgiven to me, what holds me back from accepting that it is not mine, and whatdifficulty can I have in giving it away? If I know for sure that something isharmful, what foolishness holds me back from throwing it away?? If I reallyunderstand the essence of "things given to me", what on earth is hindering me tohail the truth with open heart, "Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam yatkincha jagatyaamjagat" ???If I truly understand that whatever I claim to be mine is nothing but aninsignificant residue of the world released as a residue by Him, what in thegalaxy is stopping me to appreciate the fact that, "Ucchishtaajjajjire tasmaatdivi devaa divi shritaah"?! What stupidity in the universe is halting me tomarch ahead to hail the reality that, "Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa maa gridhahkasya sviddhanam" for my own benefit??!! What is the problem of receiving theabundant benevolence showered perpetually on me with absolute wisdom andhumility if I really had the intelligence that I boast of???!!!My dear friend, nobody is hindering � but, ourselves. There is unnecessary hypeon superiority of human birth over the animals. What we seem to possess inexcess is verily "IGNORANT INTELLIGENCE" indeed � nothing but the unstoppablegrowth of Taamasic Rajas that we have nurtured over lives in the name ofevolution ... if our "intelligence" has increased, so is our "ignorance".Because, all the intelligence that we seem to have gathered in the name ofevolution is the exponential increase in the same animal qualities such asgreed, lust, anger, pride, etc. Do not tell me that animals do not possess thesequalities � put your hand onto the piece of meet in a hungry dog's mouth � youwill see �We seem to have gathered quite a bit of intelligence � I agree � but, thestupidity that surpasses this intelligence is that we always apply theintelligence only for nurturing and harvesting the same animal qualities -greed, lust, anger, etc. Kash, we would apply this "wisdom" of ours to grow outof our animal instincts ... then there is some hope ... Kritam Smara ... KratoSmara ... Kritam Smara ... recall what are done exactly the way they are done... recall the doer, understand exactly how you are not doing anything at all... recall again how everything is done on their own as they should have been... Kash, we realize this to get out of the clutches of our coveted animalinstincts at the depths of our hearts ...No hope till I believe that I have acquired whatever I believe to possess � but,nothing remains once I realize that I could not acquire anything at all, I cannever do such a fete in my lives, and that I need not attempt to acquireanything as the results has no relevance to me to start with ... till then, Ihave no choice but to entertain my animal instincts as they are ... lust, greed,anger, pride, ... and what not ...ResoectsNaga Narayana-------------------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji.Wrt:"I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artisticinterpretation)", I agree with you comment, while I am typing this I am smiling,I should of used the word APPROVE.Now regarding the 'Serpent', I, over the years have pondered 'The Serpent'.Here below are extracts from Wikipedia, I often find it a useful generalreference, there are 2,620,000 results for 'The Serpent' on Google.I have long concluded that the UV rays caused the rapid shortening of life onearth, and mankind lived to an enormous ages in ancient times. I believe theserays were once filtered out by a water mantle.The serpent is a vast and universal symbol, and I will follow your references toLord Siva, I have seen some comment about Lord Siva, and the Serpent before, buthave not paid great attention to it.This I believe this is a vast subject, primordial indeed, and cannot be simplyput into a box, my statements are questions always.Wikipedia.Hindu and Buddhist mythology:Main article: Naga (mythology)N & #257;ga (Sanskrit: & #2344; & #2366; & #2327;) is the Sanskrit and P & #257;li wordfor a deity or class of entity or being, taking the form of a very large snake,found in Hinduism and Buddhism. The use of the term n & #257;ga is oftenambiguous, as the word may also refer, in similar contexts, to one of severalhuman tribes known as or nicknamed "N & #257;gas"; to elephants; and to ordinarysnakes, particularly the King Cobra and the Indian Cobra, the latter of which isstill called n & #257;g in Hindi and other languages of India. A female n & #257;gais a n & #257;g & #299;. The Snake primarily represents rebirth, death andmortality, due to its casting of its skin and being symbolically "reborn".Judaic and Christian: symbolism Adam, Eve, and the (female) Serpent at the entrance to Notre DameCathedral in Paris. Medieval Christian art often depicted the Edenic Serpent asa woman, thus both emphasizing the Serpent's seductiveness as well as itsrelationship to Eve. (This connection might be due do the influence of Lilith,as well.) Several early Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria andEusebius of Caesarea, interpreted the Hebrew "Heva" as not only the name of Eve,but in its aspirated form as "female serpent."In the Hebrew Bible (the Tanach) of Judaism, the serpent (Hebrew nahash & #1504; & #1495; & #1513;) in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise offorbidden knowledge, and denying her mortality would be a result. Though notinitially identified with Satan (adversary) in the Book of Genesis, the serpentis later cursed as an adversary of Eve's offspring.Thank you for responding to my post.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--PRIOR POSTINGDear sadhaks,Sri Raja Gurdasani said: about children wearing uniform. Absolutely right. With one uniform (body) we wear and come to school (earth) get dirty. But how the child (jeeva) gets rid of dirt? By undergoing sufferings. Again another uniform. Bajagovindam-Jananapi Maranam- Punarapi Jananam.Sri Meera Doss said: Sun come light dispels. Exactly true. But Sun (Gyana does not come) and ignorance prevails.My posting was only for people doing Sadhana and having stumbling blocks.Sri Vijayanji Said: God created good and bad. First of all God created only Good. Bad came out while Bhramaji churning good. Please read posting on Srimath Bagavath Skandh 2. It is Bhramaji software that records sins and virtue. One has the freedom to do Bad certainly at human birth level. Whether one shuns it to God or on others or on reasons best known to him (like why God created me like this), the soft wear will only load the file in one` s own account. Bagavan said in Geetha that one days after several hundreds of births & deaths the jeeva reaches ME. That is doing Bad longer time to reach.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---------Dear Sadaks,As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do nothave. Mostly we discuss that these elements are obstacle for liberation orrealization. But why Paramathuma has bestowed these evil qualities upon humans?HE is very benevolent which we are sure. There is important reason that we arehaving them. What?B.Sathyanarayan---------------Narain ! Narain !! The name Narain is pious irrespective of what is stated in Vedas. In Kaliyuga only the name is enough. Hence going into the discussion on this is not desirable. Any name is the name of God - Vasudeva Sarvam. Your Bhava (inner sentiment) is basic and of relevance here. Narain ! Narain !! It was the bhava of Ajamila that got him benediction, not how he pronounced the name of his son at the time of death. I agree with Mike Keenor and would like to go a step further. ONLY ANIMALS have desire, anger,jeolosy,pride etc. A human is not at all supposed to have such traits AT ALL. It is only when a human forgets that this life form is " YOG YONI" and not "BHOG YONI" and accordingly he/she hankers after "bhog and sangrah" ( enjoyment of sensory pleasures and hoarding of worldly things) that he/she falls from the level of a HUMAN, becomes de facto an animal, and all the qualities stated by Shri Sathyanarainji come into play. Hence his statement that Desires, emotions, anger etc is not prevalent in animals and is prevalent in humans is NOT CORRECT. Oh! How angry a bull or a serpent becomes at times? Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N Maharshi-----------Dear Sadaks,Sri Mikeji said,""I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation)''''. Sir, see how Raaga and Devsha (likes and dislikes which Bagavan said) plays on you.""The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos"" this is said in different concept.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation? Again the serpent said to swallow SUN while eclipse. Means the poison (symbol of snake) that depicts as ultraviolet rays comes on earth at that time. In fact exposing ourself to it at that time can cause cancer. The same snake is on Bagavan Shiva neck. Here different concept. If human body grows it is said as Deham, but if shrinks it is said as Sarreer. Sir, Buddhi is propelled by Karmas. Buddhi is not cause for death or birth. Karmas is cause. Once karmas reduces to least the buddhi becomes ineffective and only Maanas (intellect)witnesses everything around.Kindly bear with me in my mistakes.B.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGPriy sadhakParamatama hasnt given these qualities, rather we have collected fom our long journey of JAMANAS, which we have to get rid off. Like a child wearing clean uniform goes to school, but when he returns the uniform get dirty & he has to get rid of it.ThanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------------- Shree Hari Ram ramJust like when the Sun comes out, there can not be darkness. Similarly when sight is on the pure Self, when one remains established in Self (i.e. disassociated with the world/body) , there cannot be anger, desires, emotions etc. All these are neither in the Self, nor in Paramatma...nor are they given to us by Paramamta... all these are only perceived to be in us (Self) due to accepting affinity / associating with the world / body (prakriti). If we accept no affinity with the world, how can there be any desires, anger etc ?Meera Das, Ram Ram -Dear gita sadhakAs A number of postings on this subject has come in. Lord Krishna gave so many advises to Arjun. Krishna also told that 'as human being you are free to do the karma but I am the giver of its result' With this and all other advices, Arjun asked - atha kEnam prayuktho/yampApam charati pUrusha :anichchhannapi vArshNeyabalAdiva niyOjitha : hE bhagawan - even though the human beings do not wish to do any sinful acts, it is with whose inspiration, with whose force, the people, as compulsion, are doing the sin. [hE bhagawan - jo manushya, voh nahi chAhtE bhi, kiska bolnepar hai, kiska prerNA se, kiska niyOg se hai, yeh manushya pAp karm karthA hai] (Arjun thought that since Krishna told him that all the results of karma are being given by god and God is everywhere - in the vyshti and samashti - what ever bad karma or sinful acts I do, the blame can be put on the head of Krishna) and escape. The immediate reaction came from Krishna - kAma Esha krodha EsharajOguNa samulbhavamahASanO mahA pApmavidhyEna miha vairiNa: hE arjun - it is your kAma (Desires) and it is your krodhA (Anger) that leads you to do all the karmAs. This two SlokAs in the Gita gives answer to all the queries related to all his desire, anger, jealousy, pride and so on. All these things could be there in human beings but what are all these, what are good in it, what are bad in it, how to overcome the badness of it, what is the benefit of overcoming it, all such advices are filled in Gita. We say that God himself is saying that I created this universe with good and bad. So what is wrong in my doing the bad things. This is - I am finding out a way to escape from my responsibility and put the blame on God. best wishesvijayanji--------------------------PRIOR POSTINGDesire, anger, jealousy , pride are not our true nature. Our truenature is love, goodness, helping others, being happy and makingothers happy. So when we indulge in negative emotions and actions, weare going against our true nature. There is something called theconscience in each one of us which immediately warns us when we aredoing something wrong. It is not as if we don't know the merit of ouractions or karmas. As humans we have the unique capacity of vivek ordiscrimination which animals don't have. So if even after that weindulge in bad karmas under the influence of negative emotions then wewill have to go through endless and painful cycles of births anddeaths before attaining moksha, mukti or liberation which is the onlypurpose of our existence on this earth.Hari Shanker Deo-Dear Sadaks,.In Reply to Sri Deosaran Bisnath ;; modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3. Please note the line "one born for a divine state". What does it mean. Having done enormous sadana in previous birth he gets such a birth as a phala (fruit) for his sadhana."These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only" Those TOTALLY abstained from Sadana, Bakthi, Pooja etc gets birth as Asura. Here also the BAD Karmas of that Jeeva put that Jeeva in next birth as Asura.In both cases the Karma were not surrendered. Bhagavan said with clarity in Bakthi yog.In reply to Sri Bharathi: 1)"" Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti,"" Yes part of Apara Prakriti and Prakrithi. But NOT of Supreme Bhraman Paramathuma. These said by you, happenings are due to the creator Bhramaji only.2)""So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way,''''.Desires etc are to be removed from conscience level. That is why we are born. You cannot surrender THOSE to God but surrender yourself to GOD. Then HE make change in life pattern to join Sat Sangh, to join holy people, to get sastras-puranas to be heard, ultimately sends Guru.Yes those are normal for ordinary man, but has restriction by shastras & Vedas. Example: Wife and Husband cannot indulge in pleasures in day time, in Ekadasi, in Dwadasi, in Poornima day (As it is auspicious to Bhagavan Sathyanarayan Vratha), on No moon day, on Pradosh day, and such divine day or time. One should not drink water by left hand. One can never get angry even by looks ( Gyaneswari Script of Bagavath Geetha by Sant Gnaneswar). But anger can be shown at levels of affectionate abuse. Example: Bhagavan in Geetha calls humans praying demi Gods as "Moodha" with love on them why they are doing so. Bhaja Govindam says, "Moodhamathe". Adi Sankara calls due to Kaaruniyam that why you are stupid. Do Bajan on Govinda.Sadhaks as long as we use desires etc in ordinary man level and atleast leave them then and there, then those does not become Vasana. Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan----------------Shree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,Your quote:'Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns.Apple is desire that by looks it entices.'I agree, (don't like apple, medieval European artistic interpretation).The tree of life is easy to understand, the Supreme Eternal, the Root of theCosmos.The Serpent. I take it a step further. It is an ancient symbol of death andrebirth. Buddhi, is that the cause of incarnation?My understanding of The Tree of Knowledge of good and evil, is well summed upwith the paste below.Bhagavad Gita: 15The Holy Lord said:There is th' eternal AshwatthaWith roots above, branches below,The sacred hymns, the leaves; he whoKnows it, is a Veda-knower. (1)Below, above, spread its branches,Nourished by the gunas; its budsAre sense-objects; and in the worldBelow its roots give rise to acts. (2)This its form is not here perceived�Its end, origin, existence.Having cut this firm-rooted treeWith the axe of non-attachment� (3)Then that goal is to be sought for,Which, attained, they never return:"In that Primeval Purusha,Fount of actions, I seek refuge." (4)Without pride, [delusion�attachment conquered�Dwelling in the Supreme Self, without desires,Freed from the dualities�pleasure and pain-]The un-deluded reach that eternal Goal. (5)Notice my bracketed section of verse 4 wrt to 'Tree of Knowledge of Good andEvil', remember my original comment Duality is the fruit of This tree.I have known several highly spiritual souls. Now one was a revered Lama, whohad followers from all over the world.I heard from those who were close to him,(he was their Guru),that if any of themsaid/did any thing wrong, he never got angry, or shout, Geish La would gentlyand firmly give them a Dhama class, it could last several hours.Another soul I knew, I only once heard his voice go up an octave in anger,"Br*** you are not listening !", then he relaxed and was calm.Mostly we can deal with anger, it stems from ego, by getting some control overego, will reduce,anger, jealousy, pride.I have owned animals, worked part time as a youth on a farm, and lived manyyears in the country. Anger, jealousy, pride, as far as I can tell exist in theanimal kingdom; you show too much affection to one of two or more dogs and watchwhat happens, 'jealousy'. Some horses are very bad tempered, had me running formy life.If there are any animal trainers or vets among Sadhaks, it would be interestingto hear their viewpoint.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike---PRIOR POSTINGNamasteAs many learned Sadhaks have pointed out, Bhagavan did not 'give' us these demoniac qualities. It is the mind of man that imparts goodness or badness to the activities of Nature, and this happens because man disassociates himself from Nature.Nature's forces impinge upon all forms of manifestation. These forces are neither good nor evil by themselves, they are neutral. They receive their character of being good or bad through the impress which the human mind puts on them. These are forces of Light and forces of Darkness or described by some as Daivi Sampatti (divine qualities) and Asuri Sampatti (demonaic qualities).When these forces pass through a mind that is serene and tranquil then they assume a character of goodness; but the same forces when they pass through a mind that is impure and selfish, then they become dark and evil in their character. There are the Divine properties:Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in knowledge and Yoga; almsgiving, control of the senses, Yajna, reading of the Shâstras, austerity, uprightness; Non-injury, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, tranquility, absence of calumny, compassion to beings, un-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; Boldness, forgiveness, fortitude, purity, absence of hatred, absence of pride; these belong to one born for a divine state, O descendant of Bharata. GEETA 16: 1 to 3 There are the Demoniac properties:Ostentation, arrogance and self-conceit, anger as also harshness and ignorance, belong to one who is born, O Pârtha, for an Asurika state. GEETA 16:4No one is born of divine or demoniac nature; rather these endowments are of the mind and therefore belongs to one's personal heredity and constitute one's psychological heredity.Triple is this gate of hell, destructive of the self,�"lust, anger and greed; therefore one should forsake these three. GEETA 16:21Lust, Hate and Greed are corrupting factors of the mind. Lust is an attachment; hate is repulsion, the opposite to Lust; Greed is possession; Greed gives birth to lust and hate.Bhagavan tell us in GEETA Chapter 2:62 and 63 how attachment and anger are formed:Thinking of objects, attachment to them is formed in a man. From attachment longing, and from longing anger grows. From anger comes delusion, and from delusion loss of memory. From loss of memory comes the ruin of discrimination, and from the ruin of discrimination he perishes. For more information, see Chapter 14 for the Three Gunas, including Verse 5:Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas, these Gunas, O mighty-armed, born of Prakriti, bind fast in the body the indestructible embodied one.These Three modes are the attributes of the mind; each Guna or attribute produces in the mind an attachment or addiction because the very act of perception becomes distorted. And all of Chapter 17 including these verses:These malicious and cruel evil doers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.The man who has got beyond these three gates of darkness, O son of Kunti, practises what is good for himself, and thus goes to the Goal Supreme. Ram Ram,Deosaran Bisnath-------------------------namasthe mr.satyanarayan ji,This is my humble opinion for your question. Whatever we have for example: desires/emotions/anger/even our body/even our thoughts...everything is part of Prakriti, that is also a part of the Supreme. Nothing in this world moves/happens without that power of God. we (humans/animals/animate/inanimates) only dance to the tune of that Supreme and based on our knowledge, we do and ask many questions about liberation/etc/ect. Its only for our peace of mind(again, wanting the peace of mind too ..the thought does not even occur without the power of that Supreme), we think of trying to surrender ourselves and all of our actions which eventually makes us feel calm and peace in our hearts. So, if we feel (again based on our own knowledge) that these things desires/emotions/anger are obstacles, then we can surrender those to God and if we feel that these things are normal of a ordinary human being, then we try to enjoy them...either way, it does not matter. God is the master controller in every moment of every situation and everyone's life. Just we can see His grace in whatever is given to us by surrendering all pleasure or pain onto that God. I remember this verse: 9.27"Whatever I do, Whatever I eat, Whatever I offer as oblation to sacred fire, Whatever I bestow as a gift, whatever I do as a charity, I offer onto You (Supreme)". Regards,Bharathi-----------------------Dear sadhaks,First I wish to suggest that word Narain is not acceptable in Veda. Narayana or Naranayah or Sriman Narayanaya is specified in scripts. Besides the meaning for Narayana has got a high impact pronouncing it properly. Please give me meaning of Narain so that I may be enlightened. I can see small fraction of the hidden anger in Sri Naradji writings with many question marks (??). The devotion on Sriman Narayana makes him write so. I can also see his love for GOD. Also please note Sri Naradhji saying on Swamiji, ""we can become desire less. Why we can be desire less? "" The word CAN is pivot pin. If one is desire less he sits silent waiting Bagavan call.I can see deep knowledge in Sri Pratabji postings. He has read my earlier postings. So he knows that I will answer. He has patience, compassion, quest for knowledge.Sadaks, please tell me that desire, anger, jealousy, pride is it all your belongings? Then from where you got them? Why the same are Not in animals? Do you have ability to bring them in you? If so, how come one is very soft and another is temperamental? One conquers desire where as other immersed in desire. The human body is made of similar organs, but why they act differently? Lion nature we are sure. Deer nature we are sure. Snake nature we are sure. The 5 elements fire, air etc nature we are sure. But human nature we are uncertain. The previous Karmas, Vasanas may be it makes that difference. But who is the giver of Karma Palas? Is it not Sri Maha Vishnu. Is HE not taking care to see that our Karma Palas work without mistake. We cannot change our Karma Palas, but GOD can. Once Tukaram Sant came acroos a divine lady with tears in her eyes. She said that she is being abused for not bearing a child even after her marriage 15 years ago. Sant said he will find out reason from Sri Krishna (Panduranga). Sant put the matter with Sri Krishna. Bagavan said her previous Karmas are that she cannot bear child. Sant conveyed this to her. Few months later Sant saw her with a child on her hip. Sant enquired whether she adopted any child. Lady said that it is her child. Sant in dismay ran to Sri Panduragaand question HIM. Bagavan said that what HE said was true. Sant asked then how come she has a child. Bagavan said that there came a sant like him (Tukaram) Sri Vadhiraja Swami to whom she gave Curd rice daily during his sat Sangh. On the last day the Swamiji gave Prasad and told her to share with her children. The lady in tears told Swamiji that she has no chidren. The swamiji took saffron mixed rice and blessed her that she may bear a child. So I (Sri Krishna) said that to upkeep MY baktha` s pratigniya I (Bagavan) had to change entire solar system by fraction to benefit the lady with a child. Bagavan said to Sant Tukaram, "You could have also blessed the lady like that and I could have given the lady a child. But you sant you only asked me question whether she has child or not. I have only answered your question". Sant felt his faith still to develop.Om Namo Narayanaya is called Astakshara Mantra. Om Nama Shivaya is called Panchakshara Mantra. Om Namo Bagavathe Vasudevayah is called Duadhashi Mantra. No one can reduce or add pronouncement to it. Dear Sadaks, some of us say RAM RAM. Please pronounce as RAMA RAMA in soft divine and slow process. One can feel in Antheryami (Inner Self) that it soothing than saying Ram Ram. Kindly bear with me if I am at mistake. Besides in sloka that Bagavan Shiva says, "Sri RAMA RAMA Ramethi---". Not Ram Ram. Iscon/Sants say, "Hare Rama Hare Rama----". King Dasaratha in Srimath Ramayan clearly said that king called in his, "RAMA RAMA''. Besides the importance of letter "A" is there. Om sadaks know that it is A U M, where A is first letter. A is also first letter in many languages as Aa. A is also called Akaram. Removing A in RAMA or Krishna (Last letter A in divine Nama) is considered wrong. Also in Nama Sankeerthan, `' Kesavaya , Govindidha, Mukutha, etc letter A ends.Now coming to Sri Naradhji posting.In Srimath Bagavath Puram 2cd Skandha it is said, the following.God took Prakurthi and changed to Maha. From Maha came Agangkar. Agankar made as 3 parts, Sativika Agagkar, Rajasa Agagkar and Tamasa Agagkar. From Satvika Agagkar came 5 Indriyas, 5 Karmendriyam, 5 Gynanedriyams and Maanas. From Tamasa Agagkar came Pancha Boothas and Pancha Tanmantras (Sabdha-Sparisa etc) All in total 24 Thatuvas.Then Bagavan made Panchikaran. HE took Pritvi made 2 parts, left one part as it is and then divided the other half into 4 parts. Similarly HE took Tathuvas divided into 2 parts, left one half untouched and divided other half into 4 parts. So on dividing into parts leaving one half untouched and the other half into 4 parts. Then HE mixed the 4 parts with the one another4 parts and made Saarrer (Divine Body) took Athuma and placed in it. That was Bhrama created from Nabi (Ambalical cord depicted on which Bhrama sits on Lotus) of Bagavan. Then Bagavan lay in Yoga Nithra in Sheerabgi (Vaikunt) Upto to this creation is called Samasti Sristi (Samasti Creation). The from Bhrama came Vesti Sristi which again Bhramaji made into 2 Sristi called, Athdwaraka Sristi and Satdwaraka Sristi. Please bear with me for this long explanation.Now Sadaks decide from where came our Gunas.Use desire to reach Bagavan like sants. Use Anger-on your body as it sways you here and there.Jealousy on seeing other person who progressed in divinity. All leads to Bagavan. But we use them for comforts, pleasures EtcI can quote many examples, but for now only one on jealousy. 2 very great Shivite sants, Thirugynana Sambadthar and Thirunavukarasar. They happen to meet at a village temple which could NOT opened due to a curse. They were requested by people to open. One sant sang many lines and the temple door opened. People requested the other sant to sing and close it and there after they will continue with the temple. Other sant sang only 4 lines the door closed. First saint fell fainted. Later the 2 sants opened talk. One said that after so many lines Bagavan Shiva opened the temple doors. But (To other) when you sang 4 lines door closed. Your Bakthui is more matured than mine. The other said, "No swamiji Bagavan liked your long song so he was in Trans in listening to your songs. But where as my 4 lines was not so sweet so Bagavan closed the door immediately''. Temple known as "Thirumarai Kaadu" presently known as "Vedaruniyam"If Moderator permits then I shall post where all Sri Krishna used HIS anger, desire etc and so in Sri Rama.Once again pardon me if I have said wrong some where.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan -------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Sushil Jain posting: Animals do have legs, monkeys have hands etc. They also have desire to eat , to indulge etc. They also have anger when disturbed. But all their anger etc are left over then and there. NOT CARRIED OVER FOR DAYS.Sri Mikeji posting: The serpent is thoughts from Buddhi that twists and turns. Apple is desire that by looks it entices.Sri Catherine posting: Bagavan taught Geetha from his mouth (Very Auspicious) to Arjuna. When Abimanyu died Arjuna behaved ordinary like man. Again Arjuna got very angry on his elder brother Yudhistra who abused Arjuna` s Gandeep (Bow and Arrow) much after the war closed. Arjuna wanted to hurt Yudhistra for that. But Dharma kep him aloof with anger. Sri Krishna interfered and solved the problem. Here also he behaved as ordinary man after hearing Geetha. But Sadaks, One thing we can NOTE is that when we fall for anger, desire, Jealousy, if Sri Krishna is by our side they become null and void, as in the case of Arjuna. Arjuna is famous for promises and fails and our Bagavan had to make Arjuna succeed in his promises.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan---PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhaks,There is wonderful passage by Swamijee in last chapter of "God Is Everything" Chapter 7 on How to Remove Fickleness of Mind.I concur with Pratap Bhatt that Bhagwaan is love, compassion, peace and grace and is all good.Swamijee spoke of a child that died, a son, and how the father was regularly reminded of his sons demise and mourns him. Others come who visit and remind him of good remembrances of son and the women lament on the one who has passed away. All such words reopen the wounds and increase the grief for a long time.And so remembrance of passion, anger, fear, would be tantamount to deepening of a wound with extending remembrance.(Gita 2/16)"That which is not can not be as it is and that which cannot be as if it is not" With much lovefrom catherine andersenShree Hari-Sri Sathyanarayanji,I asked a similar question some time back, I thank you for the opportunity torevisit this vexing question.Consider this paste:Bhagavad Gita 13:Since seeing the Lord equallyExisting ev'rywhere in all,He injures not the Self by Self,Then goes unto the Supreme Goal. (28)The one who truly sees is heWho sees that all actions are doneSolely by Prakriti alone,And that the Self is actionless. (29)He sees the sep'rate existenceOf all inherent in the One,And their expansion from That One�He then becomes one with Brahman. (30)Now if one takes the inverse of the Shlokas above. That! Sets the scene as itwere for all the points you mentioned.(Desire, anger, jealousy).I have often thought deeply on the allegorical myth of the Garden of Eden. Irealized that there was a sudden change in humanity, at several levels.Firstly there was a turning away from the Tree of Life, the immortal connectionwith the 'Father', to the way of knowledge of 'Good and Evil', disconnectingfrom the oneness of the 'Supreme', into duality,(not of God).There then was the obvious next change the new form, human more or less as weknow it.The Adam Man was no ordinary man, before His fall.I have often wrestled with the Serpent, (in more than one way).Now you will have take my word for this, I actually was thinking about theSerpents place in the myth, and was about to write this comment, when up poppeda new email.[sadhaka] Greatness of Satsang (Apr 18, 2009) ...Similarly we confront this world. Attachment-aversion, desire, anger, lustetc. are the venomous bites of this world. When we go for satsang (antidote) andlisten to discourses then the effect of the poison is reduced....I bow to that, thank you Swamiji, it all makes sense to me.The way I see it we are attached to the World, not to the Supreme.This is the best I can come up with at this point of time.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).--You have a valid, interesting question. But if you explore yourself you will find the interesting answer yourself. I may suggest only that you consider the following:1. Had God not given desire, anger, jealosy, pride to all, there would not have been mankind. That people have these qualities in varying proportions and degrees that we can observe the various facets of mankind and the progress of civilization through innovations, inventions and exploration to make materialprogress would not have taken place.2. God is benevolent to all and cannot discriminate against so called evil qualities like desire, anger, jealosy, pride . He is fair to all qualities including honesty, love, sacrifice, humulity.3. God creation is so fair: the one with desire anger, jealousy and pride can engage in transient enjoyment of pleasure and associated transient suffering or one can sacrifice desire and ego to enjoy permanent peace. There is this trade off humans make.4. God is not perturbed by whatever happens, so he may not be perturbed about the existence of good and evil. However, He listens to those who sincerely and earnestly pray to Him completely forgetting the Worldly affairs.5. If man does not have the tase of evil, he may not be able to appreciate the good.6. In God created universe, despite the varying quality combinations of different people, they are the same: originate from God, with God dwelling in their hearts whether or not one likes or dislikes, resting in God. Thebenevolence of God is in the creation of diversity in unity.7. God is unique and one manifest in many. No person is created the same as another - that is measure of benevolence.I am sure you will find out your answer in your own way.Basudeb Sen--------------- "As humans we all are given desire, anger, jealosy, pride which animals do not have." Most humbly, it is to be noted that the second part of statement is aconvenient assumption by us humans.....to declare ourselves superior. Animals do have limitations - no hands, no legs, no speaking power, ...like us.....because their bodies are different .....but the Self......part is the same.....Sushil Jain------PRIOR POSTINGNamaste, Dear Sadhakas!Dear Sathyanarayanji is initiating dialogues on why Bhagwaan has given/bestowed on us the evil qualities such as anger, jealousy, desire, pride etc! I am sure Sathyanarayanji knows some good reasons.In my understanding, though, Bhagwaan has not bestowed anything that is evil, He cannot as He is Love, Compassion, Peace, Grace. As such, He is known to have bestowed that which is absolutely good for us. For example, Desire is powerful energy and if/when managed/guided, within the bounds of Dharma, and Artha(livelihoods), and in an Impersonal ways, it is benovalent, leading ultimately to Moksha-liberation.Only "Personal" desires are problematics. "Person" is itself a big problem!Evility manifests from human beings only in ignorance of not knowing that they are not "individual-egos", and thus, evility is taken by humans, not given by God, so it seems!It can be also seen that "personal desire" is the root of fear, anger, jealousy, pride, and other negative emotions. If the root desire is turned toward God, then all of a sudden the desire becomes impersonal and nourishes the tree of good qualities. This may be the reason for giving us "desires"!namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------------Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sathyanarainji ! You are saying this ? Naraina gave you anger, desires, emotions ?? Paahi Murare ! Paahi Murare !! Bhoondi kare so Raamji, Chokhi karoon so main " ? ( Bad things happen due to God, good things happen due to me) . These things arise in you due to your OWN stupidity. Narain does not bestow it upon us. Can He ? Is He so cruel ?? Narain ! Narain !! Narain ! Narain !! Naarad N MaharishiShree HariRam RamSwamiji has explained this beautifully in "Salvation of Mankind" (Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke liye). He says - we can become desireless. Why we can be desireless? Because we are desireless.Therefore nothing of this sort was bestowed by Paramatma on us.....We are desireless, we are free of all emotions, we are free of all anger.....It is better if Sadhaks take the time to read Chapter 6 of Manav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye... This was also posted in sadhak daily posting.... at: sadhaka/message/2176sadhaka/message/2177Being "Ishvar Ansh, ... Chetan, AMAL..........." Surely there cannot be any flaws in us? Therefore where is the question of anyone giving these to us ?Meera DasRam Ram-------GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, addressetc) or personalize message to particular person7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modifythe posting.8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English wordbracketed.MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

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