How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for Attaining Salvation?

[Guest guest]

I am in search of devotee of God by true & heartfelt sentiments which is rarebut is somewhere -Gita 7(19).

God is easily attainable-Gita 8(14) by thinking/remembering-Gita 4(11). Mymessage is how can I think of God & remember God by true sentiments so that ican get salvation at the end at least as per Gita 8(5).

pawan kumar singhalRam Ram-------------------------------NEW POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Pawanjee! Truth is God is in Search of God. The moment God thinks God is to be searched, failure is certain as only God exists (Vasudev: NO sarvam). that's all God can say to God.

Sarvottam

-----------------

 

Yearning, HIS Gift ..............The Agony, so Joyous, !!!

Aaj Prabhu

Kuchhh ghat jaye

Kahaa sunaa ik ho jaye

Suna suna sa

Kahaa kahaa saa

Ik sangeet kee gunjan

Iktaa mein

Ik prem kaa ihsaas ban jaye

Ik Gunjan, Govinda

Tera apna pyaar

Shabd kho jayen

Ik gehree nistabdhta kee awaaz

Shabd goonj uthen

Ik sulgati huee chaah kee pukar

Aur jhuki nazron se nari sharmaye

Sahmee saanson mein narinder kho jae

Miln ka dard kuchh aisa ban jae

Kho Jaye nari, mit jaye, mar jae

Aur

Bus tu hee tu ho

Gaataa hua

Suntaa hua

Muskaata hua

Astitva

Bus tu hee ho, mere Govinda

Apnee narinderta mein magan

Tu hee tu ho !

Bus tum hee !

Tu

Tum !

Aur Tu !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

This Moment Now...... This moment Now, Beloved Lord Let Blossoms of Love flower in the Being May speech and hearing their twoness shed ! The hearing not just the hearing The entreaty not just a Prayer Their Music lovingly reverbrating In the embrace of Union Just silence, just Love ........... The Sound of No Sound caressing Thy slave as your gift of Love Words disappearing in Silence of Being Only the sound-less sound singing as AUM The Silence then choosing to flower as words Yearning for Silence again Eyes closed in ecstasy of surrender The warm Breath of yearning in nari... To Life eternal awakening And, in the Joy of Death of nariness At thy lotus feet dancing. And Nought else but Thee, Lord Be Thou the singing Minstrel… And the thirsting songbird too In blissful gratitude waltzing In the downpour from Existence Ever and ever as Narinder-ness, May thou as thy own Desire live, O Krishna ! Thou Thee Thine Be the Celebration Divine !

AUM

 

narinder bhandari

 

-------------------------------

 

My Pranaams.

 

Some people are lucky to be born into homes of parents that love God. We should remember this and do action that would make us be blessed to be born of such parents. As is stated in Chapter 6--- 40 --42.Prahalada Maharaja loved Bhagwaan before he was even born, that can happen if we have parents who expose us to love of Bhagwaan from before birth. My baby brother was not even walking or talking and loved Lord Shiva. As soon as his eyes opened he would crawl down the bed and crawled to the puja room. There he would put all the flowers and other puja items on Mahadeva.Then he'd sit and clap his hands in joy. My brother became the Pujari of our Mandir when my Dad passed away.

A few months ago, while in our puja room this same brother passed away--- he had the murti of Maha Visnu in his hands.At first I thought that he had just fainted so I held him and started to chant mantras and Mom sprinkled Tulsi water on his face. Then I started to chant the name of Narayana in his ears. I chanted every mantra I could remember and while we were driving to the hospital we were chanting and praying. He was already gone when the doctor saw him.

 

So how do we think of God so that we can remember Him when we draw our last breath? I don't know if my brother knew he was dying. Dad was driving home when he closed his eyes and left his body. Mom was with him alone and she chanted and did her part. From their lives, I can tell you what they did ---- sewa, serve people selflessly, love God, teach others how to love God by being an example themselves. Praying together as a family, be loving to those around you first and then extend it to others. This is how they were and that is how they left their bodies. Even though my brother is the youngest of us siblings, he would say that he is always ready when Bhagwaan is ready for him and my Father used to say the same thing. My Father was 52 when he left and Brother in his 30's. Are we ready and prepared when He is ready for us? When we have nothing to fear and is ready to go to Him-- whenever He is ready for us we will remember Him at the end too as is declared in Chapter 8--5.

 

Itna to karna Swami, jab praan tan se nikle

When the life breath leaves this body, grant me this favour Master

Govinda naam lekara,tab praan tan se nikle

Let me die with the name of Govinda as the life leaves my body.

 

Sincerely,

Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

 

--------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

So how is one to remember Bhagwaan at their last breath? How? We could be the worst of sinners, yet at the very last breath if Bhagwaan is remembered.. He has guaranteed us that we will attain HIM !!! How extra-ordinary ! What a special favor ! A special concession! He has granted us this special grace... only out of His compassion !... now the SECRET ,,,, HOW ????

Swamiji has made is simple for us - VASUDEVA.... There is NONE OTHER!!! NO ONE ELSE !!! DOOSERO NE KOYI !!!

Now how can your mind not be in Bhagwaan? Wherever your mind goes, your thoughts go, your senses go, there HE IS....... There HE IS ! when there IS only Bhagwaan (Giridhar Gopal, The Beloved), where else will your mind be at the last breath?...The ONE that has manifested in MANY, where will He be able to hide? It is all Vasudeva! Because He has said so in Gita 7:19 - VASUDEVA SARVAM. In Gita 6:30 too, He makes it crystal clear... He who sees Me in all, and sees all in Me, for him, I AM NEVER OUT OF SIGHT. Just like when there is snow everywhere, then where can the snow hide? Even if there is snow hidden behind snow, only snow will be seen. Similarly when everything is a manifestation of God's divine form, then how can God hide? Whatever we see, think, taste, smell, feel, whatever... IS ONLY HIM! Where can HE hide? Now can the last thoughts be anything other than Him, our Beloved One?

Pawanji and all sadhaks, do you all get this, what Gitaji, Saints, Swamiji has revealed to us? This is an extra-ordinary thing! Swamiji said it is VILAKSHAN ! Now is there any doubt about our attaining God? Anyone that is unclear about this?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------------

AUM

One-ness, where nought was but itself

Did in it's desire for expression

Manifest itself as the soundless sound

The sound of AUM

 

AUM, the seven notes singing in silence

AUM, the beauteous beholding of the inner eye

AUM, the honeyed delight of the Virgin tongue

AUM, the soft caress of the eternal Being

And the first fragrance of Non-being.

 

AUM, the One true expression of the Eternal Reality

That leads the Second back

To the Nothingness

Which is

Everything-ness.

 

AUM

 

 

one day, it was, that nari came to narinder ,

nothing unusual………. excitedly , he came………..

" narinder, narinder, narinder,

I have discovered the secret of joy ………….

Whenever you begin any thought ….do it with the utterance of `aum'

aum, silence, awareness of silence

Aum the soundless sound

and,

this utterance, narinder, you may utter

silently !!! "

and narinder said " Amen "

"amen", said narinder

And,………… for a moment there was nought but silence ............

time was no more ................

only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ...............

only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

And, yet another day, nari came to narinder , nothing new, of course ..............

" narinder, narinder, " he said excitedly " when ever you end a thought

whenever you end a thought, do it with the utterance of 'aum.......'

'aum', the soundless sound, Silence ........... awareness of silence

the joy of silence ..........

 

The Joy of Meditation

................ i tell you, narinder, this is the secret of remaining in Joy "

and narinder said " Amen "

for a moment there was nought but silence .... time was no more .... only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ............... only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

aum ...........narinder

------------

Please quote the verse from bhagavadgita as it is. Then explain in english. That what you have been doing allalong. I enjoy the gita verses a lot. Also the readers will be familiar with the holybook when you include the sanskrit verse( written in english). I admire you all for doing god's work.

iragavarapu

------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariAs regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Very clear reply of Vyas N B on the line of Swamiji is acceptable to me. I will try to accept affinity with God (Gita 15/7).I feel the grace of God(Gita 5/29) on 07.03.2009Ram Rampawan singhal --------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Please bear with me. As Sri Pratabji said that several births discouraging, it is true. Hope to attain realization may reduce or thought futile. But this is not my statement of attaining GOD in several births, but it is Sri Krishna` s in Bagavath Geetha. But in same Bagavath Geetha Sri Krishna also tells that if HE wishes HE can uplift one in the same birth. Contradictory statement of Bagavan. Here sadaks can completely rely upon the second statement of Bagavan and reach HIM straight away. Bagavan has said two methodsof reaching HIM. One right now. Another over several births. Sri Pratabji and Sri Vyasji will explain much better than me to Sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram Our inner sentiments (Bhaav) drive everything! Also our anubhava (experience/knowledge) tell us everything - the Truth (if we pay attention to it). We are experiencing abhaav (asat, perishability, changing, unreal) all the time, but choose to ignore our anubhava... If we give importance to our experience at this VERY MOMENT, liberation it shall be. Unfortunately, every thing we do is AGAINST our ANUBHAVA. We simply DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT our Anubhava. Gita clearly states - SELF cannot derive pleasure from ASAT (perishable)... yet entire life is dedicated to just doing that alone. (Gita 13:31).

Gita and Swamiji have made this PERFECTLY CLEAR - Till there is desire there is interest in the world. Once the desire goes, the interest goes. Once the interest goes - you become selfless. When you become selfless, your sorrows go, and once your sorrows go - you attain bliss (salvation, realization, benediction, moksha, Truth, God, Beloved, SatChitAnand). Whatever you may call this state. Therefore LEAVE THE DESIRE FOR ASAT. Simply DONOT GO AGAINST YOUR ANUBHAV NO MATTER WHAT, ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH. Where is the DOUBT now?

The recipe is clearly laid out. Simply FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS !!!!

But if you still do not want to follow the directions, continuing to add poison to the ingredients, then simply CALL OUT TO GOD FOR HELP!!! HEY NAATH ! HEY MERE NAATH ! HELP ME !

 

Only we humans have the ability to pay attention and respect our ANUBHAV(experience/knowledge). That is all there is to it!

Meera Das

Ram Ram

====================================

PRIOR POSTING

Time is just a thought which references a point in the past, and thought arise in ............

How True , Partap jee, how true ! what to do ....... ah.................... what should poor nari do..............? The natkhat is the Vasudeva Sarvam and Time is only a thought ................ no reality ! how impotent narinder becomes , while Krishna plays and plays ............ ah ! Beloved Krishna

In the game of twoness

You smile as One-ness.

And

In the bliss of one-ness

You dance as two-ness!

 

And, it seems to poor narinder

That

Only Loving is real; You and I false

You are false, Govinda, You are false

You do not exist, nor I

Only Love exists

But even so,

and narinder cannot help loving YOU !

When I say ‘I love You Govinda’, why do you smile?

Love is real

Love alone is real

And

In its mad dance of loving

It chooses to become for one moment

You , The Lord of Lords

And I, Your eternal plaything, your slave, your beloved

Pining and yearning for You

Ecstatically seeking oblivion

In Your look

In Your smile

In your touch.

 

Ah, Krishna ! You are NOT fair !

AUM

narinder

------------------------------

Ah, my friends, once narinder ventured to ask Krishna what Love is, and how to love God, who is Love !

"O Beloved,….. Love, the mystery, the mystery that you are Beloved, how can it ever be `known'! How can anyone ever know and understand it! Love is Un–knowable! You, my Beloved, are un-knowable. Only you know yourself by yourself… only you reveal to your own Self , the mystery of Love and Loving !"

And........... Thus Spake Krishna

"O narinder…. You can not know Love, but you can be Love, you can only Be. Be that Love. Be love. And, narinder, when you are Love, you `know' Love. You know what Love IS.

Ah ! Narinder, who wish to capture Love in words, let us share a moment … let us become Love, This Moment Now. The love, which is the opposite of `hate' is not what Love is . The love, which embraces hate, which co-exists along with `hate', is Being, is Love .

You can not know love ….. you cannot `do' love…. But you can feel Love. You can be Love. Love is not a `doing'.Love is a happening.Love is not a ' thought'...... thinking. Love is a feeling.

Love is your Being, your whole-ness, your crying need not to withhold anything from anyone, nor inflict anything on anyone.

A million words may be written about love. But if you have not felt it, you have not known it as your own Being-ness---------------you know nothing about Love! And, …. if you have felt it … felt it as your blood, bone and marrow, as your breath and consciousness, as your whole Being, as that, without which, you feel ` not alive'…. Then, narinder, you need no words, no affirmation, no proof, no knowledge…. You need no discussion, no analysis. Love is sufficient unto Love .

Ah ! Narinder…. You are love infinite. Infinite and choiceless; and you are the creator , sustainer and destroyer.Blessed by Love,you create in love. In Love, you sustain, and destroy too… in Love. All your doing, all your knowing , which in truth is of the nature of ` not –doing'… and `not – knowing, is nothing but Love. O nari, what indeed can be said of love! Only Love can know what love is! …….Not I …. not I … not I…. Love is `not I ' And yet, O narinder, Love and I, I and Love, are not –two. I indeed am Love!"

"Thank You, Beloved , thank you for leading Nari to Yourself for understanding of Love," This, now Narinder prays, "O Beloved….. lead me, O Lord, to the presence of those, who have known Love … who are love… who are Krishna … who you are ! Because, Govinda, my heart and soul are scorched by the heat of Love! And the fire can only be extinguished by the ambrosial showers of love from your Bhaktas, who have known Love, who are Love… who you yourself are! "

Jai Krishna, Jai Jai ! AUM

narinder

===================================================PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Let me reflect upon Vasudev Sathyanarainji's messages as discussed upon by various sadhaks, including by Shri Pratapji. Beautiful brain storming arguments. There are 2 things in substance. One- Bahunaa Janamnaamante (BG 7:19) and another who binds whom? Maya to Purusha or vice versa.

Vasudev Sathyanarainji is absolutely right. Pratapji is also not wrong. Yes after many many births ! After a long long series of lying into various wombs of different species of mothers- one gets ultimately the human life. We all have got it. For all of us this can be the LAST life- God is attained for all of us. We simply have to believe this fact. That is all.The moment you get human life- Paramatma is attained. (Prarabdha pahale racha, peechhe racha shareer- first our object has been finalised, later we got human body) You only have to realise that! Matter ends. In human life only, you can presume He is attained and realise that. (this can be, actually, the 'anta' -last- of all life forms, because the chain started from here only- from a human birth in the past).. Here only you can say - He is attained. NO WHERE ELSE ! There is no question of "when" ! Now !! In this very human birth and always/ever - so long we remain human ! How TIME comes in between ? What poor time has got to do with it? TIME has already turned in our favour as we got human birth.

As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Who else can leave it? Who else accepted it? Maya means- that which does not exist. Self means- that which exists. When Self exists and Maya does not exist, the deliberation has to begin and end with Self only. The acceptance was by us. The renunciation has to be by us. What poor non existent Maya has got anything to do with bondage? Maya has no capacity to bind us. It does not exist. We keep talking/thinking/ relying upon it through mind/time/ignorance type of webs. Where is Maya to bind us? Something must exist at first place to bind us !! Leave shelter of mind- you are free ! Where is bondage thereafter?

Hope the above answers the questions raised and the essence of delibreations. What can be the role of mind or time there?

I have not read full series of arguments (read today only, to the extent trail is there on my BB - full trail is not there). May be I missed something from beginning. Let me know if I have. I will clarify/amend.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,Pranams.In recent post, I started a story - tree is holding me, & left to be told some other time; I think this is a perfect place :-)A guru had 2 disciples - younge (Y) & older (O). Guru: I am going to die soon so tell me what will you do after I am gone. O: I'd continue my search for God following your teachings while remaining brahmachari (celibate). Y: I'd continue my search for God remaining in family as my parents would like. Guru blessed both but called O & requested to keep an eye on Y & died. Few years later O visited Y & was happy to see him doing sadhana while remaining married. Few years passed, O visited Y again, but the picture is different. Y is in the midst of maya with his wife and kids and has almost forgotten God. O reminded him of God & promise given to guru. Y promised to start his sadhana & next time when O comes, to join him in sanyas as his kids would have been settled. Few years later O came back to take Y for sanyas. Y said he can't leave now as his son's wife had delivered a baby (B) & no one takes better care of B then he. Let it grow a little, when B goes to school he will join O. Y understood the problem. Next day early morning Y heard someone is shouting for help. O ran outside, saw that O has hugged a tree tightly & shouting for help claiming that this tree is not letting him go. O claimed over n over that this tree is holding him so tight that despite of his trying he can't free himself! Y understood the message & left immediately with O for to complete his sadhana for God realization! We claim all the time that maya is holding us back but it is not true, we are holding on to maya and that's where the problem is. Nothing is wrong w/maya. Maya is as eternal as God himself but trying to catch hold of shadow is ignorance. As Swamiji has said - holding on requires efforts, letting go doesn't... No need to leave the house, no need to go anywhere, God is present everywhere so do your duty but in God conciousness w/o attachment, that's all. It is that simple. Baba always says - remain compassionately detached. Even though you leave your family & go to jungle, maya will follow you as you are carrying it in your head. humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----Dear Sadaks,Thus answered Sri Vyasji, ""Na me bhaktah pransyati? There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can deviate from HIS oath but not from the oath of HIS Bhakta"". I liked to hear from Vyasji though I knew it. Now who is Baktha? Defenition of Baktha?Slowly developing love (Desire for reading divine books, listening recorded divine lectures, meeting and spending time with Saadhus, sitting alone and craving for GOD) is one who is Baktha. Bagavan says, Kamiyartha Baktha, Prema Baktha, Niskama Prema Baktha. Only in Bakthi Marg, Bagavan takes over HIS Bakthas from start (Person who is desiring for GD0). In Sanyasa Marg or in Yog Marg Bagavan remains wittness, because in these 2 Margs Sanyasi or Yogi does have somewhere in a corner of his mind (Without his awareness) that he is Kartha for Sanyas or Yog. Bagavan said in Geetha that Sanyasi or Yogi fails several times before reaching HIM. Example: Sanakathis (Sri Bhramaji Manasa Puthras) fell pray to anger at doors of Vaikunt in cursing Jaya and Vijaya. But in case of Baktha behaving with Krodh/Kama/Loba etc HE takes care to rectify and make him realize. So many cases are there. Jai Sri krishnaB.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!One more point I want to share on Sathyanarayanji's post on Geeta saying "thatman does attain me in one of several births", so God is already attained butwhen is the question(time factor).If we look closely, that which we really are, Atman-Self-Consciousness nevertakes birth nor dies. Our ignorance as desires, latent tendencies-vaasanasacquired while in physical body forms subtle body(sanskaras) and it merges withcosmic subtle body or mass karmas of all beings upon death. It gets recycledthrough another body and ignorance continues its journey further until itrealizes its true nature in some human birth. So that which we truly are nevertakes re-birth. Thus by the time one realizes many births may have gone, butonly in ignorance, like in a dream! This is what I think Krishnaji may havemeant.Upon realizing Atman how does it matter how many births have gone? Again we saythis to emphasize the immediacy of the Realization. From the point of view ofmind, time is there, but time has not played any part in realization.How can it, it is not real. It is a simplistic and pragmatic assumptions. Evenan hour by clock time is experienced differently by different people, some findit too long when perceived boring, some find it too quick when perceivedinteresting! Time which is of Maya is flowing, and can never be experienced bymind. Thus what we call NOW is not mind's experience, it is mind's concept ofzero duration! Like in a dream we can experience whole life in few minutes, butupon waking up, there was no reality! So by saying it takes several births torealize we don't convey any value to those on the path of inquiry, on thecontrary it discourages.Besides, several births are only almost zero second to God, whose Grace bestowsRealization to those who are in fit to receive in His judgment!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------Dear sadaks,Sri Vyasji has given nice explanation to my query BG 9:31- Na me bhaktahpransyati? Thank you.B.Sathyanarayan------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, please accept my pranaam, you need not beg pardon! we areonly exchanging our understanding! Let us be in the spirit of oneness as yousaid and freely exchange!Let me do the best I can to clarify. "Does Maya bind us or we are binded byMaya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting ourselves intoMaya", you asked.Maya binds us as long as we don't inquire who we truly ARE! We consider us asbody-mind limited entity and it continues as long as we allow it to gounchecked! We do have freedom for this inquiry! We can be free of suchignorance, and stop Maya at individual level. However, if we don't exercise thisfreedom in this birth, we continue to live in ignorance of Maya! So, Maya haspower only if we give it to! Maya stays away from True Bhaktas you give examplesof many times! Those bent on inquiry are Bhaktas of TRUTH!Maya also refers to illusion at cosmic level, is universal for all of us! Forexample, rainbow is illusion in the sense seven colors are seen as magnificentbow(of Rama as some say) just from rain water and sunlight, or mirrage seen indesert etc etc. Even when we know the truth we continue to see Rainbow andmirrages, however, it cannot bind us anymore, on the contrary it is joy all theway.Stories in our puranas are to emphasize the importance of stepping out of Maya,and some dramatization always help in such stories. Narada has this big ego ofwinning Maya, so, he was fooled is one such example!When we look at the world and take objects as real, not knowing it as Ishwara,its reality, it is due to Maya principle, it is said. It means, Maya is not aproblem, but to consider it REAL is the ignorance! If Maya can end, it isappearance and not permanent, that which appears but is not, Permanent is THATwhich never ceases to be. BG 2:16.Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Shri HariI belong to God -I accepted it first of all. One could see who has gyan & othercould not see who has agyan. I and my-ness is main obstacle which i finddifficult to conquer to get peace(Gita 2.71). I am trying as sadhak.Ram Rampawan singhal------------------

NEW POSTING

Thank you all for your insights and co-operation. On having satsang withdevotees of Swamiji in Vrindavan (Shri Nawal Ram ji and consulting ShriRameshji Maharaj by telephone), I learned the following -

Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind's nature to bein constant search. Search of worldly matters and things or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically divert from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.

Jai Sri Krishnapawan singhal

-----

Hari Om

It is so divine to read message of Catherine to Sadhaks. Nothing more needs tobe done. Nothing more needs to be known. Nothing more needs to be got. Such isthe power in what she is practicing. You have caught the nerve of Satsanga-Sadhika Catherine. My pranaams to you.

Sathyanarainji ! Are you referring Sir to BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah pransyati?There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfallof His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) candeviate fron His oath but not from the oath of His Bhakta, viz Arjuna. It is aguarantee of highest order by Paramatma to the Sadhaks. If you turn towards Me ,you shall never fall thereafter ! Krishna had, before Mahabharat War had takenan oath that he shall not lift weapon in the war. When Bheesma Pitamah knew,then he took the oath that I will make Krishna lift the weapon. Krishna forgotabout His oath and ensured that Bhishma Pitamah's oath is protected and liftedthe wheel of a broken Ratha ( chariot) and ran after Bhisma. . Such is the God,Dear Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, you need not beg pardon. We are exchanging ourunderstanding on this wisdom platform! God is really playing by being us in ourroles, I am sure of this as you are! I am not attached to what I share withsadhakas, and never insist it is the only truth!It has and is helping me to go deep within to feel the hidden, invisiblePresence and put few words around it as if finger is pointing at Moon. Just asfinger cannot touch the moon, mind cannot conceive the Presence, SELF! This maysound like bad news. but the good news is: since Self is already what "I" is,ever attained! So "I" cannot attain "SELF", just as eyes cannot see eyes even asthey see everything. The Grace points to the eyes "my dear, the fact that yousee everything is the proof of your Being more than what you see, so stopsearching and just be!". The eyes heed and realize, not that they will seethemselves ever, but the need to see themselves disappear altogether! Mind ispointed the same truth "you cannot see God separate from you, You ARE IT!It is the same here, all attempts to attain Paramatman by "me", non existententity, stops. Then all notions, beliefs which are images in the mind of Godbeing separate from "me" drop away in this Realization!In that Realization, mind becomes quiet, peaceful on its own in which Glimpse ofAtman is natural. So, I don't entertain any ideas about separate God right atthe outset, not wait for Realization to happen!This is what I understand by Paramatman is already attained! Vasudeva Sarvamfrom the beginning!

Unfortunately mind comes back and claims that Glimpse(of God) to be his ownexperience, not realizing that it was absent when Glimpse was Present. Kabirjiputs this as "Either Hari or "me", both cannot be present on the path ofLOVE"(Prem gali ati sankari, tame na samay do................).The Grace by the way, takes the guise of Swamiji or like him or scripture ordevotion or Satsang with spiritual friends like thhis forum.So why don't we realize now? Realization is like glimpses, like lightening,flashes here and flashes there, in time frame from the point of mind, but notdue to time really! When someone realizes SELF, it has nothing to do withelapsed time, because suppose if the same one didn't realize then also timewould have elapsed, right? So time is not the independent variable in theequation at all, only understanding brings it! Understanding means Devotion orSelf-less Karmas or any combinations, but finally only Grace will do it! You canonly go to the Gateless Gate and wait, and the doors open when God wants it!This is the reason Saints say that you do sadhana, and in time You will realize.Time is just a thought which references a point in the past and thought arise inus such as "oh, it took 5 years to realize or change" etc etc. No one canexperience the time in chronological way(it is running river), we experienceonly interveals of time as thoughts only. Thought is psychological time,thoughts creates time(and space too)! see for yourself.Few more clarifications later!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--\------

PRIOR POSTING

I am devotee of God and have never had doubts of his existence. I attain Godthis way. I put in different places little post it notes, Please do not let meforget You even for a moment, I say He Naath, He Mere Naath, I think on Bagwaan,Paramatma and Vasudev Sarvam all times. I use prayer of Oh Father let me neverforget you even for a moment, oh Compassionate One, let Your sweet memory bealways with me.Oh kind hearted my Father, my Master there is no one else, let menot forget you even in my dreams,while walking, eating, sleeping let me onlythink of You.In whatever I do let me always think of You.Your sweet, sweetmemories ever remain.Please grace me with this remembrance.. whatever work thatis being done yet in my heart, in my mind there is only God. Please I lie atyour lotus feet entreating let not even a moment pass without me rememberingyou, let me think of you every second, HE NAATH HE MERE NAATH Let me neverforget, let me remember all times...

catherine

--------------------------------

Hari Om

Pawanji. Why you should consider some thing to be difficult to conquer? What isthe difficulty?

What is yours? A thing/body over which you have no independent control , canthat be yours? By what yardstick you consider some thing/body to be yours? Athing/body which was not yours in the past, not going to be yours in the future,at present also it is constantly drifting away from you, how that thing can beyours? Where is the difficulty in understanding this simple fact?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---Dear sadaks,I first beg pardon from Sri Pratabji. Sri Pratabji, Sri Vyasji, Sri Mikeji, andall those NAMES mentioned by Sri Vyasji are one of Paramathuma` s and notdifferant. Only names divides to produce sounds. Sri Pratabji, it is not me whoimplied on you. Where is you or me? We are one and the same as said by you.Sri Pratabji you have answered in your posting. That is, ""We make suchstatements as "until you realize Self or Paramatman, you are in Maya, bondage!But I say until you choose to remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Iknew you will precisely answer and only in that sense I requested you.One more clarification from sadaks on the above line,""until you choose toremain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Does Maya bind us or we arebinded by Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we gettingourselves into Maya" Some sadak has written about Naradhji getting monkey facebecause he said he won Maya. Maya has played with Paramathuma when HE decendedto earth as Badrinarayana, and with Bagavan Shiva and Maya lost & went back inshame.""Swamiji means what he said "Paramatman is already attained", is a statement offact we need to discover for ourselves!"" promtly said by SriPratabjiBagavan said in Geetha that line, ""Aneka Samshidayah-------". That man doesattain me in one of the several births."" which means that man alreadyattained, but when is the question (Time factor).Dear Sadaks, kindly enlighten me on the line starting with ""Name Baktha-----""said in Geetha. Please be precise in answer with a story example if possible.Namaste to Sri Pratabji and all other sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

 

--------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadak, (pawan singhal )Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind nature to be inconstant search. Search of worldly matters and things/ Or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically diverse from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Pratab Bhatt says, To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying salvation" or he maynot even need to ask. God would know all true Bhaktas' heartfelt desires formerging in Him."" But Swamiji saidGoswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and free me of desires, angerand faults'. Only `Give me your devotion as that alone will suffice.' 3rd March,2009, Tuesday Falgun Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Mangalvar

Sri Pratab I know he will have answer for SadhaksJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------------------------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Pratabji thus said so is absolutely correct, Thus salvation is what wealready are. If you remember Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, how canyou attain that which is attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is whatwe are, not we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.

Now the question comes from ordinary men. -1) I am fraud, doing all underhand dealings, I cheat people and bank or evennation, I know how bad I am. Sir, you are telling me that I already attainedParamathuma .2) Politician said, I know what I am doing and Sir you call me I attainedParamathuma. Don’t be kidding.3) Student said, I have to achieve so much in life Sir you say I attainedParamathuma.4) Householder said, I have to get my children married and see that they getsettled, don’t be joking I attained Paramathuma.

What Swamiji said was also correct. Then where came the difference?

Human alone is blessed with such a body and intellect that can discriminate goodand bad, body and the soul, jeeva and paramathuma. Now a boy is told that he isfit to become doctor. He studies hard and gets Degree as a doctor. He did notknow he can become doctor until told. He then studied well and became doctoronly on listening to advisor (Guru). So Swamiji shares the teachings of the Gitaand scriptures saying human has in built capacity and ability to attain God.Which means that one need not fear that he cannot attain GOD, as he has allprovisions to attain God. But human does not know this power within is there.Now take animals they don't have that power to attain God, except in exceptionalcases. Animals have to raise to human level to attain God. Referance; KapilaGeetha told by Bagavan to Deva Hoothi. Even devatas, Indra etc are to take humanbirth and get salvation says Vedas. This valuable life gift (Godliness) isattained, but unaware of the birth of a human birth gift obtained by passingthrough various birth from tree to animals. Misuse this birth and go back to aworm in a dust bin says Vivekachudamani. Narayana Batadri a famous sant ofGuruvayuralso wrote that the human body is invaluable gift, if misused one takesbirth as animals. Referance: Srimath Narayiniyam. Bagavan in Geetha also said,"Aneka Jalma Samshidayaha-----" Gyan is that you now accept that you are in aattained position of Paramathuma. Vig (Scientifically- Science of Creation) isapplied to Gyan and one becomes Vig Gyani where by he can never ever commitmistake after becoming so. A Gyani has committed mistake but Vig Gyani does not.Best Example: Adi Sankara was Gyani but his Gyan was incomplete, until BagavanShiva came in disguise as Chandala with 4 dogs in street of Kasi and gave VigGyan. Referance : Manisha Panchakam.

Sri Pratabji wrote that "Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa. .....Karishyetavachanam.. .."I remember my true Self now Lord, I will do what you say".

So every human needs Sri Krishna. the Guru to say these, then he will say, Iremember my true self until then he is in maya.

Sadaks, body is a vital tool to attain Paramathuma. Bhramaji was jealous inheaven when he saw Sri Krishna eating along with his friends in Vridavan, onefeeding each other. He thought what a gift to be a child in Vrindavan along withSri Krishna. My post is useless. Devas and devathas where still more jealous andit would have best to be a calf or cow there rather than in this Bog lok wastingtime.

Sadaks we are blessed to be in human form on earth to the extent to serve SriKrishna in Pooja, in making Mala, in giving HIM fruits, in prostrating at hisfeet, in singing HIS songs, in seeing HIM blissfully. This NO ONE else in 13Loks can do. Referance : Sants of Panderpur, Shenayi, Chota Mela, Sakubai etc.and also written in Gyanapaana of the great sant who flew to Vaikunt by PuspakaViman in 1650 at Malapuram in public view Sant Sri Poothanam.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------False asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti) Said Sri pawan singhal.How many times happiness came and gone?. How many times unhappiness came andgone? It will come and go, so be aware of this truth.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariI accept Gita 7(19) that God is everywhere and in everything but Ican not realise God due to lack of understanding of Gita 18(48) & false asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti).I am trying to make relationship with self but in vain. Other way isonly to meet the devotee of God in physical form as guided in Gita 4(34). I realise swamiji as Giani -Gita 4(34) & take benefit tillassociation with Him. Now I am trying those benefit through group that is insant satsang. I have already requested tosadhakas of this group but in vain.I believe in association of great soul in physical form to getspiritual guidance as I feel with Swamiji at Rishikesh & Kolkatta.Please assist me to meet divine sadhaka & other realised greatsoul/Giani/devotee of God

pawan singhalRam Ram----------------------------NEW POSTING

Shri HariLonging is by the Self is answer of my question as explained byMeera Das. I request to Sh. Meera Das & all sadhaks please explainHow it will happen? I can only pray to God. I am helpless.Ram Rampawan singhal

------------------------

Shree HariRam Ram

Here are simple, clear and very easy words spoken in Hindi bySwamiji -

"Sabse pehle sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hoon. Ek baar saralhriday se dridhta poorvak sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hihoon. Jab aap bhagwaan ke ho to aapko unki smriti ke liye kuch karnahi nahin padega. Aapki har kriya unki pooja hogi."

Meager attempt at translating these simple words -

"First of all, accept that I am Bhagwaan's (I belong to God). Justonce, with a simple, straight forward heart, accept with a firmconviction, that I am only Bhagwaan's (I belong to only God). Whenyou become Bhagwaan's then you will have to do absolutely nothingfor His rememberance. All your activities will become His worship."

Now the Panchamrit (Five Golden Principles) just happens on it'sown -1) I am only God's2) I reside in His kingdom only3) I do His work (good and auspicious) only4) I receive only His prasad (blessing/offering)5) With the prasad received from Him, I serve only His family.

Now what will cause you to forgot Bhagwaan (God)? When you becomesomeone's do you have to remember you belong to them? Do you haveto recite at night I belong to Him, I belong to Him, I belong toHim? Do you have to study to remind yourself, since I belong to myBeloved, I must cook and do other work for Him? Do you have toremind yourself that since I belong to Him, I must take care of Hischildren? and so on?

Become Bhagwaan's (God's) ONLY ONCE !!!! .... says Swamiji... Magicfollows... undoubtedly.

Meera DasRam Ram

---------------------------

In India we are lucky to have amongst us God realised souls who areshowing others the path to salvation. These gurus by shunningworldly comforts and possessions are showing us the way. Once werealise that every thing that we see is maya or illusion and thatthe only truth is the Soul or Atma within each of us whose only goalis to unite with the Parmatma, we can attain salvation. What we aretoday is the result of our past karmas but we can control what wewill become through through the result of our present karmas. So ifwe follow the right path of sewa or helping others, satsang orseeking the company of good people, sadhna or spiritual practicesand dhyan or meditation to connect with our Soul then we will be onthe right path.Hari Shanker Deo--------------------------

Thank You Narinder Bhandariji. I bow to YOU and The Krishnarejoicing your Rejoice.

Respects.

Naga Narayana----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,One says Salvation/Mukthi is always there. Another point said thatyou that Sat Chit and Anandham. Then why one has to suffer? Becausereason

1) One knows not to tell lies, but says- Mind level.2) One knows drinking alcohol is wrong, but drinks -Body level.3) One knows that he has to Sadhana, but does not do, intellectlevel.

These 3 are called Trikarna Sudhi (Clealiness of body mind andintellect) How to achieve it? By guidance - God/Guru. SalvationMukthi is there, but one is not living in it as the qualities arenot there. A person with eye sight is unable to read. But then heneeds spectacles. So the body, mind and intellect is not in form, itis spoilt. He needs Gyan (Spectacle) to see within (Athuman) hisswaroop.He gets from Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh. Until then he does notrealize that he is easily reachable to God/Salvation/Mukthi. That iswhy without Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh he undergoes birth afterbirth. The man who obtained Gyan knows preyty well that his Swaroopis itself divine and because of curtain of Maya he lost valuablelife time.What is wrong in learning from the saint's teachings? In fact theirteaching are there for one to follow. Otherwise those historiescould not have been written. In fact it is easy to follow a saintpath to reach God faster. Saints showed easy methods that could makeone realize.There were so many disciples who followed the instructions of theirGuru and obtained Mukthi. Example: Sant Ekanath. In Kaliyug it isdifficult for man to read scriptures/Sanskrit Etc and then know thepath. In Srimath Bagavath says in Kaliyug Namasankeerthan is enoughto get liberated. Each yuga Dharma is there in Scripts. If someonetells me easy and quick and fast way to reach Badrinath, what iswrong in following his advise. So are Bakthas who guides us. Just bypresenting a flower Mala daily with faith and love to God a saint(Vishnu Chithar) says it will pave path to Vaikunt. It seems easybut if one tries that somewhere or other he fails in timely pooja orloose a day without, or gets stuck to some business or occupied in afamily function Etc. So sincerity, faith, love towards God settingaside even a great need of family produces realization. Sadaks, manyof us go temple say certain day Friday/Saterday. How punctual are we?

Hiranyakasipu and Prahald had argument where is GOD. Prahald said HEis everywhere. His father asked is HE in this pillar. Prahaladsays, "Drusyate" (Yes I see God). His father says "Nah Durshyate" (Ican not see HIM). Why? One has Gyan the other has Agyan. ThoughParamathuma there , one could see and other could not see. Most ofus are still in Agyan. Here Guru was Prahalad who showed GOd andHiranyakasipu obtained Mukthi.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Dear Pawanji, Swamiji has said that such experience of the presenceof God, the rememberance of God, your Beloved One by truesentiments, is only possible by one's own Self. Not by mind/intellect and not by trying to remember. It is only when thislonging is by the Self, that it happens on it's own simply,naturally, and involuntarily (Swabhavik). Swamiji says this is soinnate that it happens even in one's sleep. Rather it happensnaturally all the time. Intense attachment and longing for God -round the clock. It is not about "doing" but simply "being". Itsimply and naturally "IS". Absolutely nothing has to be done toremember our Beloved One.

Just like when our Beloved is going to arrive by train, and we havenot seen him for a long time and we are waiting at the railwaystation for Him, and we feel the anxiety, the longing - When will myBeloved come? When will I see Him? How much longer will it be beforeour eyes meet? This anticipation, this longing is so intense thatone simply cannot wait even a moment. It is consuming ! Just thatone thought.. when will I see my Beloved!

Just like when we are intensely thirsty and are consumed with thethought of a sip of water. Do you have such enthusiasm? Such drive?Such Zeal? Such Intensity? Such Sentiments to meet Your Beloved One,God? - asks Swamiji

Meera DasRam Ram

-----------------------------

Krishna and His song

The Heart,

In longing pain

Cries out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

The Soul rejoices.

 

The Mind

In love's ecstasy

Bows at the feet of the Beloved

The Soul rejoices.

 

And Krishna smiles,

The flute rising to his lips.

Ah! The symphony of the soundless sound,

Where

The seven disappear into the Light of lights

Where

Time disappears into Timelessness

 

And

The Heart,

In longing's pain

Keeps Crying out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

And

Thence comes the Lords song of songs

The Bhagavad geetha, ah !

To assuage the hearts pain

And, the Minds thirst for Knowledge, and Light

aum

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Pawanji ! You have received sterling in sights in response to yourQs, the last one from Mira Dassji. Truth and only truth is there inher last message to you. If you just "accept" with a simple heartwhat she has so eloquently recommended to you, your search gets overeffortlessly, then and there !! Where can Paramatma hide when youstart with goal of BG 7:19? Can ice hidden behind ice ever remainhidden?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Dear Sadhak,Why think to achieve salvation at the "end" ? It cannot be a futuregoal. It is HERE and NOW as stated by sadhak Narinderji.Only effort needed is to be present Here and Now with a deep longingto reach HIM. Now is the eternity zone. All spiritual practices likebreath control, name chanting, mala japa etc leads sadhak to remainin present moment.The whole world is nothing but an illusion, a web of our thinkingmind. When a sadhak practices living in here and now, he is out ofthe grip of his thinking mind and all doing becomes happenings."Sarva Dharma Paritjya, mamekam sharanam vrij"Gitaji. when sadhaksurrender to Krishna, he accept every moment As IT IS and remainssubmerged in the ocean of Love, Bliss and Peace.with Love,a sadhikaSadhna Karigar

Shri HariI am asking question due to my nature-Gita 5(14) & Gita 2(7) butbefore Gita 18(73) & because I know the truth-everything belongs toBhagwan, the essence, I say this but I do not believe the truth, theessence as i say in prayer written by Swami Shri RamsukhdasjiMaharaj.Meera Das & Pratap Bhatt has explained after Gita 18(73)Ram Ram------------------------------

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Swamiji incessantly, relentlessly, persistently spokeabout "Vasudeva Sarvam"(All is God) in the final years in His mortal body. He repeated thismany times- PLEASE READ CAREFUL AND ACCEPT IMMEDIATELY! If there is noquestions ordoubts, then PLEASE ACCEPT RIGHT NOW!

Swamiji said -Whatever is perceived with mind, speech, sight and other senses isonly God.Accept this immediately. The active, inactive, conscious, matter,[born of egg,sweat and sprouting from earth] - all are God and nothing else. Goodor bad,wicked or virtuous, all are God. There is nothing else besides God.He whowishes to attain God should accept this fact. As Shri JaydayaljiGoyandka usedto say that "Whatever is seen is God's divine form and whatever isexperiencedand activities undertaken is His divine play/pastime (lila).

If you are very serious about your question, if you believe in Gita4:11 (thathowever a devotee worships Me, so do I approach them) and have anardent andintense longing to find the answer to this question, it does notmatter if it isat the end of life or not, SIMPLY FROM NOW ONWARDS - EVERYTHING YOUSEE ISBHAGWAAN'S SWAROOP (God's Divine Form) AND EVERYTHING YOUEXPERIENCE/DO IS HISLILA (Divine Play/Pastime).

Now if a devotee worship Bhagwaan in this manner, where canBhagwaanji HIDE?Tell me one place he will not be? Tell me how at the end of thislife, end ofthis human body, He will not be there as Yamdoot (God of Death)?Tell me whereyou will need to go searching for this rare Devotee of God by true & heartfeltsentiments? If your sentiments are true and heartfelt, can you notaccept whatGita says and what Swamiji says that Bhagwaan (Vasudeva) iseverywhere, ineverything, in all that you see, think, feel, do, experience andmore, becausethere is only "Vasudeva" and this is clearly stated in the Gita 7:19and throughout the Gita in Chapter 11 and more!

Do you have any further questions or doubts? Please bring them out!

Meera DasRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sri Pawan kumar

I remember the words of a man who is an ardent devotee of SriRamana. He used to say 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVENIF YOU DO NOT THINK OF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE.

Please contemplate on that

vrsarma podury

PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delayingsalvation" or he may not even need to ask. God would know all trueBhaktas' heartfelt desires for merging in Him.What I mean is the when you are in love with God, unconditionally,you wouldn't want to make loving Him as a means to the end(salvation). Such love or remembering God constantly is in itselfthe means and end, without duality even though on-lookers may feelBhagwaan and Bhakta as separate.I consider salvation as Moksha or liberation from a false senseof "me", non existent ego and establishment in Atman our true Self.Thus salvation is what we already are. If you remember Swamiji saysParamatma is already attained, how can you attain that whihc isattained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what we are, notwe will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.In attaining anything there is duality of someone who attains andsomething to be attained, not the case here in this Bhakti (lovingdevotion).Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa......Karishye tavachanam...."I remember my true Self now Lord, will do what you say".One lives free of "me" as Sat-Chit-Ananda only.In salavation no individual entity survives, it is livingimpersonally, as Intelligence, Love, Peace, Steadfastness! Karmasare done when needed without doer!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,I am remember the boon of Kunti in Mahabharat.She requested LordKrishna to keep them in poverty so that she can remember almightyGod.Still however we should keep that spirit and in spite of alltroubles and our condition we should never avoid offering prayers atleast or twice.We should learn as to hoe to prayer.Please refer tomy book on 'Prayers of all Religions of the world. This is what IfeelTruly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

--------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Sree Pratabji, Kindly bear with me for my mistake. Your goodnesssaid-- say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he havetime to ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living inSalvation?. Baktha is in constant thought of GOD that is why he hasfull time to askGOD why that HE is delaying salvation. Worldly man partly with Godhas time to ask GOD for his desires to be fullfilled one after theother until death. Such man Geetha has said Kamiyartha Baktha, whomGOD gives him long rope fulfilling his desires one after other, GODhoping he will become Jignasu. That hope of GOD is benovolence. Onceagain pardon me if I am wrong and enlighten me.

Salvation is that I thought is attained stage, not living insalvation. Salvation is to be attained and not living in it. Meanstrying for salvation. Once salvation is attained there is nodesires. You are very right Sir.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------

God is available only when we become His and remember His Gloriesand His name many times continuously, then and then we will feel Hispresence within your hearts. He will be seen but his presence willbe felt. This is how Mirabai, Narsinh Mehta and Chaitainya MahaPrabhu realized God.This is what I feel everyday while offering prayers

Truly yoursS S Bhatt

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadak,You are searching GOD outside you . Outside you HE exists, but inVeerat Roop. Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youRproblem ends.B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------Thanks.Believe and love God because Gita 5(29) verdict as explainedby Raja Gurdasani & Kamlesh KumarPawan SinghalRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sadhaks ,The question , in some way, is related to a desire to walk the Pathof a true sadhka . Some thoughts that blossomed from within on twodifferent points of time , are given below. Both are related .

In fewest words, The Path of a sadhak , could perhaps, be stated asfollows :

1.We are what we are , at this point of Time. It could never havebeen ( and , can never be )otherwise .

2.When the Self is Known, all is Known. It is not that all answersare available ( The field of Knowledge is so vast); itis ...that..... all Questions drop....... whatever needs to be knownat a particular point of Time ( always Herenow) is made available toThe Knower of the Self by Existence .

3. Living now is no more ' living in the Time'( Past and Future). Itis always in your own ' presence' ( awareness) in the Here now.Spontaneous living sans Fear , Pain, and delusion.

4.The sense of Doership disappears .

5.Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.

6.Words become Fewer, and they flower from your Silence (Peacefulness ! ) And, They are purposeful. They have Power ( power-----not as the world understands, but the power of God and Love......to transform the seeker ).

7. The Whole Process ( walking the Path ) is for Oneself. If, wewere already Enlightened .............. we shall pass the Test ( weshall Know) by the joy of conduct ...... ( The Conduct is theTest ).Generally, it is , and will be, in accordance with the basicprinciples shown ( given ) by the Knowers of Truth. We shall remainBlissful, and Peaceful .

8. The True Seeker yearns for the Truth, his/ her own Being , withthe intensity of HERENOW. THe Desire is to end all words . Theshortest Way.No prolonging. Minimum Discussion. No argument. No imposition ofones own Concepts. Acceptance of everyone's Being ( SEE 1 Above ),respecting others' Being, respecting his/ her own being .

9. and finally.......( although, one could go on....... ) The way toLight is not through ' acquisition of new knowledge, but yourwillingness to drop your Knowledge ( concepts/ conditionings).Anything that is born, has to die. True Love, True knowledge, Truthof Being, is Unborn, Unchanging and , therefore, Undying. It isalready present in YOU, You are already That .

ah ! what more to say and how ? ( already too many words !! )

-------------For Spiritual Seekers longing for the divine mystical union withthat great Void , we call Existence, Nature, or God :

1. The longing for God is Existence Gift to the Seekers on thesacred Path of love and Light.

2. This longing one day, culminates in Grace, and the personalexperience ( knowing) of the Un-knowable

3. The paradox of Action ( effort) and Grace gets resolved in thatexperience.

4. That resolution of the paradox is the state of being, where˜doing is˜ doing nevermore where all becomes a happenning Graceand yet, there is no running away from doing what needs being done.there is NO running away, because you are not into doing any morerunning away cannot happen. all happens as it happens. ExistencesPlay , with narinder-ness in total acceptance of it a part ofExistential Play and Doing

5.TILL THAT HAPPENS. Doing, much Doing is the Way.. and it is theKnowers of Truth that guide us into attitudes and conduct to strivefor Bhagvada geetha gives to the seeker, the threefold practise of ˜Karma-yoga action , surrendering the fruit to the Lord),Bhakti (devotion) and Gyana ( Knowledge of the True ) . All the scripturesspeak nothing else they speak and shriek, in love of the seekingheart,what is the Way , of the Karma and Dharma

6.The final test of ˜having arrived is your conduct and who is tojudge the conduct ? you, yourself , of course ! it is the movementof the self , for the self; and it is the self , which chooses todie to the self , to realise the Self.

the last thought that comes to the mind is . that the self, when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.

Narinder bhandari

AUM----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is just to answer Sathyanarayanji's observations on my previouspost!I say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have time toask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in Salvation?

I say this to emphasize "remembering God and not expectinganything", just unconditional love for God goes a long way.No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead to anhilationof "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger, jealousy, etc) haveno footing. "me" is ignorance who thrives on shadripus(6 enemies)!Such Bhaktas don't say they are in salvation but we can ceratinlysay they are, to pay our respect!Even if Bhaktas like Kabirji and Prahladji asked something from God,it still is alright to just keep rememebring God without expecting,isn't it? Gita teaches us too. Each of Bhaktas may have differentapproaches to teach us to be true Bhaktas. We have to be inspired bysuch Bhaktas, not necessarily copy them. They are all unique intheir own way is the proof of different expressions of the sametruth.Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Q: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for AttainingSalvation?

Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! There are nosentiments - rather no emotions of any sort - there either.Remembering The God is another myth.

Then it remains a puzzle, why such a natural reality is not felt?!Why can't we even remember That when it is claimed to be ever-present?! What is the problem??!! The reason is the imbibed cataractin terms of our wrong notions (ignorance) and corrupt attitude(inertia). Just like the vison becomes clear on the removal of itshinderance, our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed. Sadhana is the process of removal of theignorance and inertia that cloud our existence, perception andexperience limiting us to imagine everything within these domains.Our dependence on these mechanisms of existence makes us insist fortheir approval for everything - even The God. The dependence is sostrong and opaque that we can't even dream of any alternative.Hence the insistence, if there is any reality, it should be revealedhere!

Unfortunately, finite cannot withold the infinite! The Upanishadsmake it very clear:

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

The Absolute cannot be approached by any relative media such aslistening, thinking, discussion, talking, etc. irrespective of theself-proclaimed excellence in the same. All perceived objects aswell as ideas remain finite within the limited perception itself.Therefore, The Truth remains oblivious to the cognition as far asthere is insistence for seeing everything through the lens ofcognition only. As natural to a lense, it can capture only what itsees and can transmit only what it can. In fact, what is transmittedmay not even resemble the original often thanks to its spatialboundaries, color filtering and refractional distortions. The imagesensed within and the object attempted to be sensed remain alien toeach other thanks to the opaqueness in the very cognitive system.Therefore, any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional reality isfutile in the first place.

But, the ever-present reality should be theoretically the easiest tobe attained … in fact it is already there even without any effort ofseeking! Then what is the difficulty? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.The ever-attained is ever-ready for a seeker if he/she ever couldjust escape the clutches of self-woven fish-net of desires and fearscocooned within opaque shell of ignorance and inertia. If one couldjust drop the dependence on these, THAT is naturally THERE for everyone!

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanumswaam ||

Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT which isThe You before your birth, at your birth, through your life, at yourdeath, and after your death. If you let yourself be … THAT revealsitself within and around.

Ramana Maharshi puts his brilliant depth of appreciation beautifully:

Ulladalad ull unarv ullado?Ulla porul ullal ara ullatte ulladaal.Ullam enum ulla porul ullal evan?Ullatte ullabadi ullade ullal unar ||

I beg Maharshi's pardon as I am tempted to give its Kannadaequivalent in my limited understanding, in case any could benefitfrom,

Iralaarada ola-iruvu iruvudentu?Ola-arivu olage nintu hora baaradu.Horabaarada ola-iruvanu porevudentu?Ola-iruvanu aritu iruva arive nija.

Grossly, it means,

How can there be a sense of existence without something beingwithin?The being within remains "as is" NOT seeking anything.How to attain the one within that seeks nothing? and, who can everattain That?Understand that you can attain the one within by just being withinseeking nothing.

Swami Ramsukhdasji lays out a clear strategy to develop the strengthwithin to turn our focus from our conceived world to The Reality inhis revelation on "Bhagavattattva" (Sadhan Sudha Sindhu):

1. Purify the Bahih Karana (extrinsic awareness) to develop AntahKarana (intrinsic awareness).2. Filter the Antah Karana to extract Viveka Drishti (innateawareness).3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to remain in The Tattva … The Absolute(That is often called Tattva Drishti or Salvation etc.)

I have never seen such out-spoken and clear-cut strategy in thisregard elsewhere so far. I recommend everyone to study The Nectar hegenerously pours out for everyone of us with care. FYI, it is beingcurrently circulated.

Respects.

Naga Narayana------------------------------Hari Om

Pawanji ! You "become" of Paramatma ! Just As: Without any practicea wife "becomes" of her husband. Accept firmly once with a simpleheart: I am of the God, only God is mine.

Once you do that Bhajan has started unceasingly in you. The "karta"(doer/thinker/ego) has become of God, now all the karmas have becomeGodly- naturally. The real Bhajan/remembering/thinking about God isthat which "happens" effortlessly and which is not "done" .

Look at the status today. We "have to" think/remember about God,while thinking/remembering about the world "happens automatically".

Why? Because at "subtle ego level" we continue to be of world. Hencethoughts about the world are automatic. While remaining of the worldonly , we want to remember/think about God- hence we experienceproblems in concentrating.

CHANGE YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" ! Thereuponbhajan will be automatic and remembering about the world will "haveto be done"!

As simple as that !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Thanks to all. I want to know sixteen powers which given by God sothat we can do many good things in life and we will be happy asposting by Shri Shankerprasad S. Bhatt.I agree God is doing most vital actions of our life withoutinterruption & without any noise also without showing any ehsan.I have to renounce desire-Gita 2(47), I concluded from the postingof all sadhakRam Ram

pawan singhal--------------------------------Shree HariRam RamPawanji, kindly post "sixteen powers by God" as separate question.From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakIn my view & experience I suggest please realise god work in everylittle bit of action happening in & around U.Like heart beat. Think who is doing it?Like breathing.Like digesting whatever u eat & nourishment of ur body.Can U do all this?Then it is proved that god is doing most vital actions of our lifewithout interruption and without any noise. also without showing anyehsan.Doesnt it make u believe & love god?If yes love moreif no ask urself why why u are so ehsan faramosh.Sorry if I hurt U.I didnt mean it.thanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation? THUS said Sri Pratab.Bakthas at various levels asked Bagavan to help in distress andasked HIM to liberate him from this world. There are numerable songswere Bakthas were asking with GOD, to liberate one from the 6enemies (^ bad Gunas -Kama, Krodh etc). Even Prahalad who was withSri Vishnu all the time, sang so. Kabir did so. Though they werehighly elevated souls why they sang so? Because they never left anatom of thought any part of their life that they are already insalvation. This thought they knew is Ego in disguise which is nottracable.But if one understood he is already in salvation, he becomes dumb.Behaves like Pagal Baba, never cares to even dress, never cares forfood. Those great men we recognised them as "Chitta Braman", (metalyhandicap). We are accustomed in seeing world, so to our eyes theywill be Pagal. But after their disappearence we build temples.

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Pawan Kumar ji,I am inspired by God to write to you on the subject.Love is God.God is Love.Love allServe all.See God in every creation of God. God in you is the God in everyone.Serve every creation of God is the purpose of every human who isgiven this blessed Birth.Think GoodSee GoodHear GoodDo Good.

Every moment / breath of life in you is the blessing of God , sothank God for giving you an opportunity to serve HIM by serving HIScreation.

By doing this you will realize the and attain Salvation. Choice iswith you but to do this you always need the blessings of thatSupreme. and HE who will inspire you and guide you the path ofsalvation. Do your Good Karma and leave the fruit of that unto HIMto decide.

It is like you wish to win a lottery but never bought the ticket.

One need to have a strong determination and go step by step anddrop by drop you can fill the ocean.

I apologize, if I hurt your feelings in any wayWith Warmest Regards and Ever Flowing Eternal LoveKAMLESH KUMARHELP EVER HURT NEVERLOVE ALL SERVE ALLHAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

Kamlesh Kumar------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Q: How can I get salvation at least at the end?Answer( to me at least): By not expecting salvation! When "I" whoexpect salvation or whatever, and salvation itself are seen to beone and the same, salvation has happened.In otherwords, I and desired object are understood to be the same,duality of subject object ceases and all struggles to desireanything vanishes, leaving God only, experienced as Peace, Love,Beauty, Harmony, Joy!Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?It is only by constantly desiring one pushes away the object ofdesire!when expectations or desires including that of Moksha end, "I" alsoend at the same time, not later!See the truth of this statement, and start living, stop expecting!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Dear Sadak,pawan kumar singha. Very simple. If your basic duties are over andif you want to quit worldly life, then it is surely possible.Bagavan has very clearly said in Geetha, "Aninya Chitayayome", meansconstant thought on ME, that soul I (Bagavan) takes over. Yourresponsibility in search of HIM ceases, but on the other hand HISresponsibility takes over.This also Bagavan has said in Geetha, that by HIS sankalp HE willliberate HIS baktha in same birth.Totally dedicate everything to Bagavan by Pooja, Bhajan, makinggarlands for Bhagavan, growing fruits for Bhagwaan, listeningscriptures/puranas Etc, learning vedic way of life in food, sleepand practice, washing cloths for Bhagavan, cleaning temple, lightinglamps, looking at HIM with love and affection, saying Japa walkingaround HIM (Idol), just pronouncing Govinda, Madhava, Sri KrishanayaVasudevaya Mukundhaya Namo Namo as one walks around garden. In allmoments to dedicate everything to Bagavan, B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------Dear Sadhak,

Every one should have knowledge of how he or she got this form ofhuman being after many turns of birth and death in 8.4 milliondifferent forms of births. If we know we will always remember Himbecause we are obligated to Him

Secondly if we know that after giving human birth God gave us somesixteen divine powers so that we can do many good things in life andwe will be happy.Shankerprasad S Bhatt

----------------------------We can do sewa, satsang, sadhna and meditation which spiritualpractices will definitely lead us in the right direction.Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------------------SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS- Love is God. God is Love. Love all. Serve all.See God in All. God in you is the God in All.Serve All.Think Good. See Good. Hear Good. Do Good. Leave the Fruit to Him.Every breath is blessing of God, so thank God for his blessing toserve His creation! Thus, realize and attain Salvation. Choice isyours, but by His blessings, inspiration, guidance you will attain.- "Aninya Chitayayome", means constant thought on ME, that soul I(Bagavan) takes over. By HIS sankalp HE will liberate HIS baktha insame birth. In all moments to dedicate everything to Bhagavan.- Can get salvation, by not expecting salvation'- by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of desire!- all struggles to desire anything vanishes, leaving God only,experienced as Peace, Love, Beauty, Harmony, Joy!- Bhakta constantly remembers God, loosing himself, thus living inSalvation. Does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?- god is doing most vital actions of our life without interruptionand without any noise. also without showing any ehsan.- after human birth in 8.4 million different life forms... we areeternally obligated to Bhagwaan- Our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed.- Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! finite cannotwithold the infinite! Any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptionalreality is futile in the first place. what is the difficulty inrealizing that which is ever-present? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT.Remain "as is" NOT seeking anything. Simply be!Approach: 1) Purify the extrinsic awareness; Filter the intrinsicawareness to extract Viveka Drishti 3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti toremain in The Tattva … The Absolute- Become of "Paramatma", then bhajan starts unceasingly, the 'karta'has become of God. Our problem is that at "subtle ego level" wecontinue to be of world, hence thoughts of world are automatic.Change YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" !- remembering God and not expecting anything, just unconditionallove for God. No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) leadto anhilation of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger,jealousy, etc) have no footing.- Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR problem ends.- all Questions drop - whatever needs to be known is known.- living in the present, Now and here.- sense of Doership disappears- Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.- Words become Fewer- True Seeker yearns for the Truth, HERENOW. No prolonging. MinimumDiscussion. No argument. No imposition. Acceptance of everyone'sBeing ( SEE 1 Above ),- and finally... drop all Knowledge- longing for God is Existence Gift- for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to die to theself , torealise the Self. when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.- 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINKOF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE

-------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

[Guest guest]

I am in search of devotee of God by true & heartfelt sentiments which is rarebut is somewhere -Gita 7(19).

God is easily attainable-Gita 8(14) by thinking/remembering-Gita 4(11). Mymessage is how can I think of God & remember God by true sentiments so that ican get salvation at the end at least as per Gita 8(5).

pawan kumar singhalRam Ram-------------------------------NEW POSTING

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sadaks,

One who are unable to follow Swamiji Ramsukji profound message, can slowly practice the below said and Swamiji message will come true.

One of the 12 Vaishavite sants (Alwars) said to Bagavan,"' "Oh Bagavan, there are too many strings (Kama, Krodh, Madha, Ego Etc) attacking me and I am unable to concentrate on YOU, be benevolent to remember this sinner atleast during my last breath. My body, mind, and thoughts will obstruct me during my last days, but YOU OH Bagavan please remember me at that time. YOU can remember me, but I cannot and do anything. Please treat this prayer as my advance booking for my last breath when may be my throat will be choked with Kapaa ( cold) unable to call YOU."" This is preliminary thought any Sadak can Do.Your misbehaviour/thoughts/actions just let it be. Have FAITH in Bagavan that HE can take care. That faith is enough for HIM to save you.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

 

--------------------------

-Shree Hari-Dear Pawan,Reflecting on that which Meera Das Ji has written, I will ask this question.Have you ever been in the presence of soul you dearly love? You are not talkingyou are in silence, maybe watching the sunset, or ducks swimming in a pond,whatever, and you are bathed in a silent aura of love?It is like that you see. As I sit here and type this, I feel the presence of'The Beloved'. How can I not, he is my Beloved, my Father, my Companion, It isimpossible not to be with HIM.Pawan my friend listen to your Heart.With Respect and Divine Love,Mike (Keenor).

--------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To think of God and to say all these things is fine.

But if you want to think of God at the last moment,

and want to say his / her name, it dwells on one premise----

how would you know when is your last moment ?

 

All this is possible only if one thinks of your most favorite

( Ishta devataa ) either all the time, or most of the time, and

are willing to offer all your karmas to Him / Her, or perform

them in his / her name.

 

Even more importantly, this should happen as if its your second

nature. Only then will you think of Him / Her all the time and its only

then we shall reach that position.

 

Yet again, all actions should be done in his / her name, without any

attachment to getting Salvation. If all thoughts are to leave, the thought

of salvation can be an impediment. So, the performance of all karmas in

his / her name, without attachment to that name, is the only solution !!!

 

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

------------------------Nandaji,Thanks for sharing the wonderful personal experience. Yes, Govinda naamlekara,tab praan tan se nikle ... beautiful ...Respects.Naga Narayana.

================================================

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari:

Ram Ram Pawanjee! Truth is God is in Search of God. The moment God thinks God is to be searched, failure is certain as only God exists (Vasudev: NO sarvam). that's all God can say to God.

Sarvottam

-----------------

Yearning, HIS Gift ..............The Agony, so Joyous, !!!

Aaj Prabhu

Kuchhh ghat jaye

Kahaa sunaa ik ho jaye

Suna suna sa

Kahaa kahaa saa

Ik sangeet kee gunjan

Iktaa mein

Ik prem kaa ihsaas ban jaye

Ik Gunjan, Govinda

Tera apna pyaar

Shabd kho jayen

Ik gehree nistabdhta kee awaaz

Shabd goonj uthen

Ik sulgati huee chaah kee pukar

Aur jhuki nazron se nari sharmaye

Sahmee saanson mein narinder kho jae

Miln ka dard kuchh aisa ban jae

Kho Jaye nari, mit jaye, mar jae

Aur

Bus tu hee tu ho

Gaataa hua

Suntaa hua

Muskaata hua

Astitva

Bus tu hee ho, mere Govinda

Apnee narinderta mein magan

Tu hee tu ho !

Bus tum hee !

Tu

Tum !

Aur Tu !!

This Moment Now......

This moment Now, Beloved Lord Let Blossoms of Love flower in the Being May speech and hearing their twoness shed !

The hearing not just the hearing The entreaty not just a Prayer Their Music lovingly reverbrating In the embrace of Union Just silence, just Love ...........

The Sound of No Sound caressing Thy slave as your gift of Love Words disappearing in Silence of Being Only the sound-less sound singing as AUM The Silence then choosing to flower as words Yearning for Silence again

Eyes closed in ecstasy of surrender The warm Breath of yearning in nari... To Life eternal awakening And, in the Joy of Death of nariness At thy lotus feet dancing.

And Nought else but Thee, Lord Be Thou the singing Minstrel… And the thirsting songbird too In blissful gratitude waltzing In the downpour from Existence

Ever and ever as Narinder-ness, May thou as thy own Desire live, O Krishna ! Thou Thee Thine Be the Celebration Divine !

 

AUM narinder bhandari

-------------------------------

My Pranaams.

Some people are lucky to be born into homes of parents that love God. We should remember this and do action that would make us be blessed to be born of such parents. As is stated in Chapter 6--- 40 --42.Prahalada Maharaja loved Bhagwaan before he was even born, that can happen if we have parents who expose us to love of Bhagwaan from before birth. My baby brother was not even walking or talking and loved Lord Shiva. As soon as his eyes opened he would crawl down the bed and crawled to the puja room. There he would put all the flowers and other puja items on Mahadeva.Then he'd sit and clap his hands in joy. My brother became the Pujari of our Mandir when my Dad passed away.

A few months ago, while in our puja room this same brother passed away--- he had the murti of Maha Visnu in his hands.At first I thought that he had just fainted so I held him and started to chant mantras and Mom sprinkled Tulsi water on his face. Then I started to chant the name of Narayana in his ears. I chanted every mantra I could remember and while we were driving to the hospital we were chanting and praying. He was already gone when the doctor saw him.

So how do we think of God so that we can remember Him when we draw our last breath? I don't know if my brother knew he was dying. Dad was driving home when he closed his eyes and left his body. Mom was with him alone and she chanted and did her part. From their lives, I can tell you what they did ---- sewa, serve people selflessly, love God, teach others how to love God by being an example themselves. Praying together as a family, be loving to those around you first and then extend it to others. This is how they were and that is how they left their bodies. Even though my brother is the youngest of us siblings, he would say that he is always ready when Bhagwaan is ready for him and my Father used to say the same thing. My Father was 52 when he left and Brother in his 30's. Are we ready and prepared when He is ready for us? When we have nothing to fear and is ready to go to Him-- whenever He is ready for us we will remember Him at the end too as is declared in Chapter 8--5.

Itna to karna Swami, jab praan tan se nikle

When the life breath leaves this body, grant me this favour Master Govinda naam lekara,tab praan tan se nikle

Let me die with the name of Govinda as the life leaves my body.

Sincerely,

Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

--------------------------

 

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

So how is one to remember Bhagwaan at their last breath? How? We could be the worst of sinners, yet at the very last breath if Bhagwaan is remembered.. He has guaranteed us that we will attain HIM !!! How extra-ordinary ! What a special favor ! A special concession! He has granted us this special grace... only out of His compassion !... now the SECRET ,,,, HOW ????

Swamiji has made is simple for us - VASUDEVA.... There is NONE OTHER!!! NO ONE ELSE !!! DOOSERO NE KOYI !!!

Now how can your mind not be in Bhagwaan? Wherever your mind goes, your thoughts go, your senses go, there HE IS....... There HE IS ! when there IS only Bhagwaan (Giridhar Gopal, The Beloved), where else will your mind be at the last breath?...The ONE that has manifested in MANY, where will He be able to hide? It is all Vasudeva! Because He has said so in Gita 7:19 - VASUDEVA SARVAM. In Gita 6:30 too, He makes it crystal clear... He who sees Me in all, and sees all in Me, for him, I AM NEVER OUT OF SIGHT. Just like when there is snow everywhere, then where can the snow hide? Even if there is snow hidden behind snow, only snow will be seen. Similarly when everything is a manifestation of God's divine form, then how can God hide? Whatever we see, think, taste, smell, feel, whatever... IS ONLY HIM! Where can HE hide? Now can the last thoughts be anything other than Him, our Beloved One?

Pawanji and all sadhaks, do you all get this, what Gitaji, Saints, Swamiji has revealed to us? This is an extra-ordinary thing! Swamiji said it is VILAKSHAN ! Now is there any doubt about our attaining God? Anyone that is unclear about this?

Meera Das

Ram Ram

-------------

AUM

One-ness, where nought was but itself

Did in it's desire for expression

Manifest itself as the soundless sound

The sound of AUM

 

AUM, the seven notes singing in silence

AUM, the beauteous beholding of the inner eye

AUM, the honeyed delight of the Virgin tongue

AUM, the soft caress of the eternal Being

And the first fragrance of Non-being.

 

AUM, the One true expression of the Eternal Reality

That leads the Second back

To the Nothingness

Which is

Everything-ness.

 

AUM

 

 

one day, it was, that nari came to narinder ,

nothing unusual………. excitedly , he came………..

" narinder, narinder, narinder,

I have discovered the secret of joy ………….

Whenever you begin any thought ….do it with the utterance of `aum'

aum, silence, awareness of silence

Aum the soundless sound

and,

this utterance, narinder, you may utter

silently !!! "

and narinder said " Amen "

"amen", said narinder

And,………… for a moment there was nought but silence ............

time was no more ................

only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ...............

only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

And, yet another day, nari came to narinder , nothing new, of course ..............

" narinder, narinder, " he said excitedly " when ever you end a thought

whenever you end a thought, do it with the utterance of 'aum.......'

'aum', the soundless sound, Silence ........... awareness of silence

the joy of silence ..........

 

The Joy of Meditation

................ i tell you, narinder, this is the secret of remaining in Joy "

and narinder said " Amen "

for a moment there was nought but silence .... time was no more .... only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ............... only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

aum ...........narinder

------------

Please quote the verse from bhagavadgita as it is. Then explain in english. That what you have been doing allalong. I enjoy the gita verses a lot. Also the readers will be familiar with the holybook when you include the sanskrit verse( written in english). I admire you all for doing god's work.

iragavarapu

------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariAs regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Very clear reply of Vyas N B on the line of Swamiji is acceptable to me. I will try to accept affinity with God (Gita 15/7).I feel the grace of God(Gita 5/29) on 07.03.2009Ram Rampawan singhal --------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Please bear with me. As Sri Pratabji said that several births discouraging, it is true. Hope to attain realization may reduce or thought futile. But this is not my statement of attaining GOD in several births, but it is Sri Krishna` s in Bagavath Geetha. But in same Bagavath Geetha Sri Krishna also tells that if HE wishes HE can uplift one in the same birth. Contradictory statement of Bagavan. Here sadaks can completely rely upon the second statement of Bagavan and reach HIM straight away. Bagavan has said two methodsof reaching HIM. One right now. Another over several births. Sri Pratabji and Sri Vyasji will explain much better than me to Sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram Our inner sentiments (Bhaav) drive everything! Also our anubhava (experience/knowledge) tell us everything - the Truth (if we pay attention to it). We are experiencing abhaav (asat, perishability, changing, unreal) all the time, but choose to ignore our anubhava... If we give importance to our experience at this VERY MOMENT, liberation it shall be. Unfortunately, every thing we do is AGAINST our ANUBHAVA. We simply DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT our Anubhava. Gita clearly states - SELF cannot derive pleasure from ASAT (perishable)... yet entire life is dedicated to just doing that alone. (Gita 13:31).

Gita and Swamiji have made this PERFECTLY CLEAR - Till there is desire there is interest in the world. Once the desire goes, the interest goes. Once the interest goes - you become selfless. When you become selfless, your sorrows go, and once your sorrows go - you attain bliss (salvation, realization, benediction, moksha, Truth, God, Beloved, SatChitAnand). Whatever you may call this state. Therefore LEAVE THE DESIRE FOR ASAT. Simply DONOT GO AGAINST YOUR ANUBHAV NO MATTER WHAT, ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH. Where is the DOUBT now?

The recipe is clearly laid out. Simply FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS !!!!

But if you still do not want to follow the directions, continuing to add poison to the ingredients, then simply CALL OUT TO GOD FOR HELP!!! HEY NAATH ! HEY MERE NAATH ! HELP ME !

 

Only we humans have the ability to pay attention and respect our ANUBHAV(experience/knowledge). That is all there is to it!

Meera Das

Ram Ram

====================================

PRIOR POSTING

Time is just a thought which references a point in the past, and thought arise in ............

How True , Partap jee, how true ! what to do ....... ah.................... what should poor nari do..............? The natkhat is the Vasudeva Sarvam and Time is only a thought ................ no reality ! how impotent narinder becomes , while Krishna plays and plays ............ ah ! Beloved Krishna

In the game of twoness

You smile as One-ness.

And

In the bliss of one-ness

You dance as two-ness!

 

And, it seems to poor narinder

That

Only Loving is real; You and I false

You are false, Govinda, You are false

You do not exist, nor I

Only Love exists

But even so,

and narinder cannot help loving YOU !

When I say ‘I love You Govinda’, why do you smile?

Love is real

Love alone is real

And

In its mad dance of loving

It chooses to become for one moment

You , The Lord of Lords

And I, Your eternal plaything, your slave, your beloved

Pining and yearning for You

Ecstatically seeking oblivion

In Your look

In Your smile

In your touch.

 

Ah, Krishna ! You are NOT fair !

AUM

narinder

------------------------------

Ah, my friends, once narinder ventured to ask Krishna what Love is, and how to love God, who is Love !

"O Beloved,….. Love, the mystery, the mystery that you are Beloved, how can it ever be `known'! How can anyone ever know and understand it! Love is Un–knowable! You, my Beloved, are un-knowable. Only you know yourself by yourself… only you reveal to your own Self , the mystery of Love and Loving !"

And........... Thus Spake Krishna

"O narinder…. You can not know Love, but you can be Love, you can only Be. Be that Love. Be love. And, narinder, when you are Love, you `know' Love. You know what Love IS.

Ah ! Narinder, who wish to capture Love in words, let us share a moment … let us become Love, This Moment Now. The love, which is the opposite of `hate' is not what Love is . The love, which embraces hate, which co-exists along with `hate', is Being, is Love .

You can not know love ….. you cannot `do' love…. But you can feel Love. You can be Love. Love is not a `doing'.Love is a happening.Love is not a ' thought'...... thinking. Love is a feeling.

Love is your Being, your whole-ness, your crying need not to withhold anything from anyone, nor inflict anything on anyone.

A million words may be written about love. But if you have not felt it, you have not known it as your own Being-ness---------------you know nothing about Love! And, …. if you have felt it … felt it as your blood, bone and marrow, as your breath and consciousness, as your whole Being, as that, without which, you feel ` not alive'…. Then, narinder, you need no words, no affirmation, no proof, no knowledge…. You need no discussion, no analysis. Love is sufficient unto Love .

Ah ! Narinder…. You are love infinite. Infinite and choiceless; and you are the creator , sustainer and destroyer.Blessed by Love,you create in love. In Love, you sustain, and destroy too… in Love. All your doing, all your knowing , which in truth is of the nature of ` not –doing'… and `not – knowing, is nothing but Love. O nari, what indeed can be said of love! Only Love can know what love is! …….Not I …. not I … not I…. Love is `not I ' And yet, O narinder, Love and I, I and Love, are not –two. I indeed am Love!"

"Thank You, Beloved , thank you for leading Nari to Yourself for understanding of Love," This, now Narinder prays, "O Beloved….. lead me, O Lord, to the presence of those, who have known Love … who are love… who are Krishna … who you are ! Because, Govinda, my heart and soul are scorched by the heat of Love! And the fire can only be extinguished by the ambrosial showers of love from your Bhaktas, who have known Love, who are Love… who you yourself are! "

Jai Krishna, Jai Jai ! AUM

narinder

===================================================PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Let me reflect upon Vasudev Sathyanarainji's messages as discussed upon by various sadhaks, including by Shri Pratapji. Beautiful brain storming arguments. There are 2 things in substance. One- Bahunaa Janamnaamante (BG 7:19) and another who binds whom? Maya to Purusha or vice versa.

Vasudev Sathyanarainji is absolutely right. Pratapji is also not wrong. Yes after many many births ! After a long long series of lying into various wombs of different species of mothers- one gets ultimately the human life. We all have got it. For all of us this can be the LAST life- God is attained for all of us. We simply have to believe this fact. That is all.The moment you get human life- Paramatma is attained. (Prarabdha pahale racha, peechhe racha shareer- first our object has been finalised, later we got human body) You only have to realise that! Matter ends. In human life only, you can presume He is attained and realise that. (this can be, actually, the 'anta' -last- of all life forms, because the chain started from here only- from a human birth in the past).. Here only you can say - He is attained. NO WHERE ELSE ! There is no question of "when" ! Now !! In this very human birth and always/ever - so long we remain human ! How TIME comes in between ? What poor time has got to do with it? TIME has already turned in our favour as we got human birth.

As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Who else can leave it? Who else accepted it? Maya means- that which does not exist. Self means- that which exists. When Self exists and Maya does not exist, the deliberation has to begin and end with Self only. The acceptance was by us. The renunciation has to be by us. What poor non existent Maya has got anything to do with bondage? Maya has no capacity to bind us. It does not exist. We keep talking/thinking/ relying upon it through mind/time/ignorance type of webs. Where is Maya to bind us? Something must exist at first place to bind us !! Leave shelter of mind- you are free ! Where is bondage thereafter?

Hope the above answers the questions raised and the essence of delibreations. What can be the role of mind or time there?

I have not read full series of arguments (read today only, to the extent trail is there on my BB - full trail is not there). May be I missed something from beginning. Let me know if I have. I will clarify/amend.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,Pranams.In recent post, I started a story - tree is holding me, & left to be told some other time; I think this is a perfect place :-)A guru had 2 disciples - younge (Y) & older (O). Guru: I am going to die soon so tell me what will you do after I am gone. O: I'd continue my search for God following your teachings while remaining brahmachari (celibate). Y: I'd continue my search for God remaining in family as my parents would like. Guru blessed both but called O & requested to keep an eye on Y & died. Few years later O visited Y & was happy to see him doing sadhana while remaining married. Few years passed, O visited Y again, but the picture is different. Y is in the midst of maya with his wife and kids and has almost forgotten God. O reminded him of God & promise given to guru. Y promised to start his sadhana & next time when O comes, to join him in sanyas as his kids would have been settled. Few years later O came back to take Y for sanyas. Y said he can't leave now as his son's wife had delivered a baby (B) & no one takes better care of B then he. Let it grow a little, when B goes to school he will join O. Y understood the problem. Next day early morning Y heard someone is shouting for help. O ran outside, saw that O has hugged a tree tightly & shouting for help claiming that this tree is not letting him go. O claimed over n over that this tree is holding him so tight that despite of his trying he can't free himself! Y understood the message & left immediately with O for to complete his sadhana for God realization! We claim all the time that maya is holding us back but it is not true, we are holding on to maya and that's where the problem is. Nothing is wrong w/maya. Maya is as eternal as God himself but trying to catch hold of shadow is ignorance. As Swamiji has said - holding on requires efforts, letting go doesn't... No need to leave the house, no need to go anywhere, God is present everywhere so do your duty but in God conciousness w/o attachment, that's all. It is that simple. Baba always says - remain compassionately detached. Even though you leave your family & go to jungle, maya will follow you as you are carrying it in your head. humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----Dear Sadaks,Thus answered Sri Vyasji, ""Na me bhaktah pransyati? There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can deviate from HIS oath but not from the oath of HIS Bhakta"". I liked to hear from Vyasji though I knew it. Now who is Baktha? Defenition of Baktha?Slowly developing love (Desire for reading divine books, listening recorded divine lectures, meeting and spending time with Saadhus, sitting alone and craving for GOD) is one who is Baktha. Bagavan says, Kamiyartha Baktha, Prema Baktha, Niskama Prema Baktha. Only in Bakthi Marg, Bagavan takes over HIS Bakthas from start (Person who is desiring for GD0). In Sanyasa Marg or in Yog Marg Bagavan remains wittness, because in these 2 Margs Sanyasi or Yogi does have somewhere in a corner of his mind (Without his awareness) that he is Kartha for Sanyas or Yog. Bagavan said in Geetha that Sanyasi or Yogi fails several times before reaching HIM. Example: Sanakathis (Sri Bhramaji Manasa Puthras) fell pray to anger at doors of Vaikunt in cursing Jaya and Vijaya. But in case of Baktha behaving with Krodh/Kama/Loba etc HE takes care to rectify and make him realize. So many cases are there. Jai Sri krishnaB.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!One more point I want to share on Sathyanarayanji's post on Geeta saying "thatman does attain me in one of several births", so God is already attained butwhen is the question(time factor).If we look closely, that which we really are, Atman-Self-Consciousness nevertakes birth nor dies. Our ignorance as desires, latent tendencies-vaasanasacquired while in physical body forms subtle body(sanskaras) and it merges withcosmic subtle body or mass karmas of all beings upon death. It gets recycledthrough another body and ignorance continues its journey further until itrealizes its true nature in some human birth. So that which we truly are nevertakes re-birth. Thus by the time one realizes many births may have gone, butonly in ignorance, like in a dream! This is what I think Krishnaji may havemeant.Upon realizing Atman how does it matter how many births have gone? Again we saythis to emphasize the immediacy of the Realization. From the point of view ofmind, time is there, but time has not played any part in realization.How can it, it is not real. It is a simplistic and pragmatic assumptions. Evenan hour by clock time is experienced differently by different people, some findit too long when perceived boring, some find it too quick when perceivedinteresting! Time which is of Maya is flowing, and can never be experienced bymind. Thus what we call NOW is not mind's experience, it is mind's concept ofzero duration! Like in a dream we can experience whole life in few minutes, butupon waking up, there was no reality! So by saying it takes several births torealize we don't convey any value to those on the path of inquiry, on thecontrary it discourages.Besides, several births are only almost zero second to God, whose Grace bestowsRealization to those who are in fit to receive in His judgment!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------Dear sadaks,Sri Vyasji has given nice explanation to my query BG 9:31- Na me bhaktahpransyati? Thank you.B.Sathyanarayan------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, please accept my pranaam, you need not beg pardon! we areonly exchanging our understanding! Let us be in the spirit of oneness as yousaid and freely exchange!Let me do the best I can to clarify. "Does Maya bind us or we are binded byMaya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting ourselves intoMaya", you asked.Maya binds us as long as we don't inquire who we truly ARE! We consider us asbody-mind limited entity and it continues as long as we allow it to gounchecked! We do have freedom for this inquiry! We can be free of suchignorance, and stop Maya at individual level. However, if we don't exercise thisfreedom in this birth, we continue to live in ignorance of Maya! So, Maya haspower only if we give it to! Maya stays away from True Bhaktas you give examplesof many times! Those bent on inquiry are Bhaktas of TRUTH!Maya also refers to illusion at cosmic level, is universal for all of us! Forexample, rainbow is illusion in the sense seven colors are seen as magnificentbow(of Rama as some say) just from rain water and sunlight, or mirrage seen indesert etc etc. Even when we know the truth we continue to see Rainbow andmirrages, however, it cannot bind us anymore, on the contrary it is joy all theway.Stories in our puranas are to emphasize the importance of stepping out of Maya,and some dramatization always help in such stories. Narada has this big ego ofwinning Maya, so, he was fooled is one such example!When we look at the world and take objects as real, not knowing it as Ishwara,its reality, it is due to Maya principle, it is said. It means, Maya is not aproblem, but to consider it REAL is the ignorance! If Maya can end, it isappearance and not permanent, that which appears but is not, Permanent is THATwhich never ceases to be. BG 2:16.Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Shri HariI belong to God -I accepted it first of all. One could see who has gyan & othercould not see who has agyan. I and my-ness is main obstacle which i finddifficult to conquer to get peace(Gita 2.71). I am trying as sadhak.Ram Rampawan singhal------------------

NEW POSTING

Thank you all for your insights and co-operation. On having satsang withdevotees of Swamiji in Vrindavan (Shri Nawal Ram ji and consulting ShriRameshji Maharaj by telephone), I learned the following -

Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind's nature to bein constant search. Search of worldly matters and things or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically divert from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.

Jai Sri Krishnapawan singhal

-----

Hari Om

It is so divine to read message of Catherine to Sadhaks. Nothing more needs tobe done. Nothing more needs to be known. Nothing more needs to be got. Such isthe power in what she is practicing. You have caught the nerve of Satsanga-Sadhika Catherine. My pranaams to you.

Sathyanarainji ! Are you referring Sir to BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah pransyati?There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfallof His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) candeviate fron His oath but not from the oath of His Bhakta, viz Arjuna. It is aguarantee of highest order by Paramatma to the Sadhaks. If you turn towards Me ,you shall never fall thereafter ! Krishna had, before Mahabharat War had takenan oath that he shall not lift weapon in the war. When Bheesma Pitamah knew,then he took the oath that I will make Krishna lift the weapon. Krishna forgotabout His oath and ensured that Bhishma Pitamah's oath is protected and liftedthe wheel of a broken Ratha ( chariot) and ran after Bhisma. . Such is the God,Dear Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, you need not beg pardon. We are exchanging ourunderstanding on this wisdom platform! God is really playing by being us in ourroles, I am sure of this as you are! I am not attached to what I share withsadhakas, and never insist it is the only truth!It has and is helping me to go deep within to feel the hidden, invisiblePresence and put few words around it as if finger is pointing at Moon. Just asfinger cannot touch the moon, mind cannot conceive the Presence, SELF! This maysound like bad news. but the good news is: since Self is already what "I" is,ever attained! So "I" cannot attain "SELF", just as eyes cannot see eyes even asthey see everything. The Grace points to the eyes "my dear, the fact that yousee everything is the proof of your Being more than what you see, so stopsearching and just be!". The eyes heed and realize, not that they will seethemselves ever, but the need to see themselves disappear altogether! Mind ispointed the same truth "you cannot see God separate from you, You ARE IT!It is the same here, all attempts to attain Paramatman by "me", non existententity, stops. Then all notions, beliefs which are images in the mind of Godbeing separate from "me" drop away in this Realization!In that Realization, mind becomes quiet, peaceful on its own in which Glimpse ofAtman is natural. So, I don't entertain any ideas about separate God right atthe outset, not wait for Realization to happen!This is what I understand by Paramatman is already attained! Vasudeva Sarvamfrom the beginning!

Unfortunately mind comes back and claims that Glimpse(of God) to be his ownexperience, not realizing that it was absent when Glimpse was Present. Kabirjiputs this as "Either Hari or "me", both cannot be present on the path ofLOVE"(Prem gali ati sankari, tame na samay do................).The Grace by the way, takes the guise of Swamiji or like him or scripture ordevotion or Satsang with spiritual friends like thhis forum.So why don't we realize now? Realization is like glimpses, like lightening,flashes here and flashes there, in time frame from the point of mind, but notdue to time really! When someone realizes SELF, it has nothing to do withelapsed time, because suppose if the same one didn't realize then also timewould have elapsed, right? So time is not the independent variable in theequation at all, only understanding brings it! Understanding means Devotion orSelf-less Karmas or any combinations, but finally only Grace will do it! You canonly go to the Gateless Gate and wait, and the doors open when God wants it!This is the reason Saints say that you do sadhana, and in time You will realize.Time is just a thought which references a point in the past and thought arise inus such as "oh, it took 5 years to realize or change" etc etc. No one canexperience the time in chronological way(it is running river), we experienceonly interveals of time as thoughts only. Thought is psychological time,thoughts creates time(and space too)! see for yourself.Few more clarifications later!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--\------

PRIOR POSTING

I am devotee of God and have never had doubts of his existence. I attain Godthis way. I put in different places little post it notes, Please do not let meforget You even for a moment, I say He Naath, He Mere Naath, I think on Bagwaan,Paramatma and Vasudev Sarvam all times. I use prayer of Oh Father let me neverforget you even for a moment, oh Compassionate One, let Your sweet memory bealways with me.Oh kind hearted my Father, my Master there is no one else, let menot forget you even in my dreams,while walking, eating, sleeping let me onlythink of You.In whatever I do let me always think of You.Your sweet, sweetmemories ever remain.Please grace me with this remembrance.. whatever work thatis being done yet in my heart, in my mind there is only God. Please I lie atyour lotus feet entreating let not even a moment pass without me rememberingyou, let me think of you every second, HE NAATH HE MERE NAATH Let me neverforget, let me remember all times...

catherine

--------------------------------

Hari Om

Pawanji. Why you should consider some thing to be difficult to conquer? What isthe difficulty?

What is yours? A thing/body over which you have no independent control , canthat be yours? By what yardstick you consider some thing/body to be yours? Athing/body which was not yours in the past, not going to be yours in the future,at present also it is constantly drifting away from you, how that thing can beyours? Where is the difficulty in understanding this simple fact?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---Dear sadaks,I first beg pardon from Sri Pratabji. Sri Pratabji, Sri Vyasji, Sri Mikeji, andall those NAMES mentioned by Sri Vyasji are one of Paramathuma` s and notdifferant. Only names divides to produce sounds. Sri Pratabji, it is not me whoimplied on you. Where is you or me? We are one and the same as said by you.Sri Pratabji you have answered in your posting. That is, ""We make suchstatements as "until you realize Self or Paramatman, you are in Maya, bondage!But I say until you choose to remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Iknew you will precisely answer and only in that sense I requested you.One more clarification from sadaks on the above line,""until you choose toremain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Does Maya bind us or we arebinded by Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we gettingourselves into Maya" Some sadak has written about Naradhji getting monkey facebecause he said he won Maya. Maya has played with Paramathuma when HE decendedto earth as Badrinarayana, and with Bagavan Shiva and Maya lost & went back inshame.""Swamiji means what he said "Paramatman is already attained", is a statement offact we need to discover for ourselves!"" promtly said by SriPratabjiBagavan said in Geetha that line, ""Aneka Samshidayah-------". That man doesattain me in one of the several births."" which means that man alreadyattained, but when is the question (Time factor).Dear Sadaks, kindly enlighten me on the line starting with ""Name Baktha-----""said in Geetha. Please be precise in answer with a story example if possible.Namaste to Sri Pratabji and all other sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

 

--------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadak, (pawan singhal )Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind nature to be inconstant search. Search of worldly matters and things/ Or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically diverse from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Pratab Bhatt says, To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying salvation" or he maynot even need to ask. God would know all true Bhaktas' heartfelt desires formerging in Him."" But Swamiji saidGoswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and free me of desires, angerand faults'. Only `Give me your devotion as that alone will suffice.' 3rd March,2009, Tuesday Falgun Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Mangalvar

Sri Pratab I know he will have answer for SadhaksJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------------------------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Pratabji thus said so is absolutely correct, Thus salvation is what wealready are. If you remember Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, how canyou attain that which is attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is whatwe are, not we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.

Now the question comes from ordinary men. -1) I am fraud, doing all underhand dealings, I cheat people and bank or evennation, I know how bad I am. Sir, you are telling me that I already attainedParamathuma .2) Politician said, I know what I am doing and Sir you call me I attainedParamathuma. Don’t be kidding.3) Student said, I have to achieve so much in life Sir you say I attainedParamathuma.4) Householder said, I have to get my children married and see that they getsettled, don’t be joking I attained Paramathuma.

What Swamiji said was also correct. Then where came the difference?

Human alone is blessed with such a body and intellect that can discriminate goodand bad, body and the soul, jeeva and paramathuma. Now a boy is told that he isfit to become doctor. He studies hard and gets Degree as a doctor. He did notknow he can become doctor until told. He then studied well and became doctoronly on listening to advisor (Guru). So Swamiji shares the teachings of the Gitaand scriptures saying human has in built capacity and ability to attain God.Which means that one need not fear that he cannot attain GOD, as he has allprovisions to attain God. But human does not know this power within is there.Now take animals they don't have that power to attain God, except in exceptionalcases. Animals have to raise to human level to attain God. Referance; KapilaGeetha told by Bagavan to Deva Hoothi. Even devatas, Indra etc are to take humanbirth and get salvation says Vedas. This valuable life gift (Godliness) isattained, but unaware of the birth of a human birth gift obtained by passingthrough various birth from tree to animals. Misuse this birth and go back to aworm in a dust bin says Vivekachudamani. Narayana Batadri a famous sant ofGuruvayuralso wrote that the human body is invaluable gift, if misused one takesbirth as animals. Referance: Srimath Narayiniyam. Bagavan in Geetha also said,"Aneka Jalma Samshidayaha-----" Gyan is that you now accept that you are in aattained position of Paramathuma. Vig (Scientifically- Science of Creation) isapplied to Gyan and one becomes Vig Gyani where by he can never ever commitmistake after becoming so. A Gyani has committed mistake but Vig Gyani does not.Best Example: Adi Sankara was Gyani but his Gyan was incomplete, until BagavanShiva came in disguise as Chandala with 4 dogs in street of Kasi and gave VigGyan. Referance : Manisha Panchakam.

Sri Pratabji wrote that "Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa. .....Karishyetavachanam.. .."I remember my true Self now Lord, I will do what you say".

So every human needs Sri Krishna. the Guru to say these, then he will say, Iremember my true self until then he is in maya.

Sadaks, body is a vital tool to attain Paramathuma. Bhramaji was jealous inheaven when he saw Sri Krishna eating along with his friends in Vridavan, onefeeding each other. He thought what a gift to be a child in Vrindavan along withSri Krishna. My post is useless. Devas and devathas where still more jealous andit would have best to be a calf or cow there rather than in this Bog lok wastingtime.

Sadaks we are blessed to be in human form on earth to the extent to serve SriKrishna in Pooja, in making Mala, in giving HIM fruits, in prostrating at hisfeet, in singing HIS songs, in seeing HIM blissfully. This NO ONE else in 13Loks can do. Referance : Sants of Panderpur, Shenayi, Chota Mela, Sakubai etc.and also written in Gyanapaana of the great sant who flew to Vaikunt by PuspakaViman in 1650 at Malapuram in public view Sant Sri Poothanam.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------False asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti) Said Sri pawan singhal.How many times happiness came and gone?. How many times unhappiness came andgone? It will come and go, so be aware of this truth.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariI accept Gita 7(19) that God is everywhere and in everything but Ican not realise God due to lack of understanding of Gita 18(48) & false asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti).I am trying to make relationship with self but in vain. Other way isonly to meet the devotee of God in physical form as guided in Gita 4(34). I realise swamiji as Giani -Gita 4(34) & take benefit tillassociation with Him. Now I am trying those benefit through group that is insant satsang. I have already requested tosadhakas of this group but in vain.I believe in association of great soul in physical form to getspiritual guidance as I feel with Swamiji at Rishikesh & Kolkatta.Please assist me to meet divine sadhaka & other realised greatsoul/Giani/devotee of God

pawan singhalRam Ram----------------------------NEW POSTING

Shri HariLonging is by the Self is answer of my question as explained byMeera Das. I request to Sh. Meera Das & all sadhaks please explainHow it will happen? I can only pray to God. I am helpless.Ram Rampawan singhal

------------------------

Shree HariRam Ram

Here are simple, clear and very easy words spoken in Hindi bySwamiji -

"Sabse pehle sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hoon. Ek baar saralhriday se dridhta poorvak sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hihoon. Jab aap bhagwaan ke ho to aapko unki smriti ke liye kuch karnahi nahin padega. Aapki har kriya unki pooja hogi."

Meager attempt at translating these simple words -

"First of all, accept that I am Bhagwaan's (I belong to God). Justonce, with a simple, straight forward heart, accept with a firmconviction, that I am only Bhagwaan's (I belong to only God). Whenyou become Bhagwaan's then you will have to do absolutely nothingfor His rememberance. All your activities will become His worship."

Now the Panchamrit (Five Golden Principles) just happens on it'sown -1) I am only God's2) I reside in His kingdom only3) I do His work (good and auspicious) only4) I receive only His prasad (blessing/offering)5) With the prasad received from Him, I serve only His family.

Now what will cause you to forgot Bhagwaan (God)? When you becomesomeone's do you have to remember you belong to them? Do you haveto recite at night I belong to Him, I belong to Him, I belong toHim? Do you have to study to remind yourself, since I belong to myBeloved, I must cook and do other work for Him? Do you have toremind yourself that since I belong to Him, I must take care of Hischildren? and so on?

Become Bhagwaan's (God's) ONLY ONCE !!!! .... says Swamiji... Magicfollows... undoubtedly.

Meera DasRam Ram

---------------------------

In India we are lucky to have amongst us God realised souls who areshowing others the path to salvation. These gurus by shunningworldly comforts and possessions are showing us the way. Once werealise that every thing that we see is maya or illusion and thatthe only truth is the Soul or Atma within each of us whose only goalis to unite with the Parmatma, we can attain salvation. What we aretoday is the result of our past karmas but we can control what wewill become through through the result of our present karmas. So ifwe follow the right path of sewa or helping others, satsang orseeking the company of good people, sadhna or spiritual practicesand dhyan or meditation to connect with our Soul then we will be onthe right path.Hari Shanker Deo--------------------------

Thank You Narinder Bhandariji. I bow to YOU and The Krishnarejoicing your Rejoice.

Respects.

Naga Narayana----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,One says Salvation/Mukthi is always there. Another point said thatyou that Sat Chit and Anandham. Then why one has to suffer? Becausereason

1) One knows not to tell lies, but says- Mind level.2) One knows drinking alcohol is wrong, but drinks -Body level.3) One knows that he has to Sadhana, but does not do, intellectlevel.

These 3 are called Trikarna Sudhi (Clealiness of body mind andintellect) How to achieve it? By guidance - God/Guru. SalvationMukthi is there, but one is not living in it as the qualities arenot there. A person with eye sight is unable to read. But then heneeds spectacles. So the body, mind and intellect is not in form, itis spoilt. He needs Gyan (Spectacle) to see within (Athuman) hisswaroop.He gets from Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh. Until then he does notrealize that he is easily reachable to God/Salvation/Mukthi. That iswhy without Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh he undergoes birth afterbirth. The man who obtained Gyan knows preyty well that his Swaroopis itself divine and because of curtain of Maya he lost valuablelife time.What is wrong in learning from the saint's teachings? In fact theirteaching are there for one to follow. Otherwise those historiescould not have been written. In fact it is easy to follow a saintpath to reach God faster. Saints showed easy methods that could makeone realize.There were so many disciples who followed the instructions of theirGuru and obtained Mukthi. Example: Sant Ekanath. In Kaliyug it isdifficult for man to read scriptures/Sanskrit Etc and then know thepath. In Srimath Bagavath says in Kaliyug Namasankeerthan is enoughto get liberated. Each yuga Dharma is there in Scripts. If someonetells me easy and quick and fast way to reach Badrinath, what iswrong in following his advise. So are Bakthas who guides us. Just bypresenting a flower Mala daily with faith and love to God a saint(Vishnu Chithar) says it will pave path to Vaikunt. It seems easybut if one tries that somewhere or other he fails in timely pooja orloose a day without, or gets stuck to some business or occupied in afamily function Etc. So sincerity, faith, love towards God settingaside even a great need of family produces realization. Sadaks, manyof us go temple say certain day Friday/Saterday. How punctual are we?

Hiranyakasipu and Prahald had argument where is GOD. Prahald said HEis everywhere. His father asked is HE in this pillar. Prahaladsays, "Drusyate" (Yes I see God). His father says "Nah Durshyate" (Ican not see HIM). Why? One has Gyan the other has Agyan. ThoughParamathuma there , one could see and other could not see. Most ofus are still in Agyan. Here Guru was Prahalad who showed GOd andHiranyakasipu obtained Mukthi.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Dear Pawanji, Swamiji has said that such experience of the presenceof God, the rememberance of God, your Beloved One by truesentiments, is only possible by one's own Self. Not by mind/intellect and not by trying to remember. It is only when thislonging is by the Self, that it happens on it's own simply,naturally, and involuntarily (Swabhavik). Swamiji says this is soinnate that it happens even in one's sleep. Rather it happensnaturally all the time. Intense attachment and longing for God -round the clock. It is not about "doing" but simply "being". Itsimply and naturally "IS". Absolutely nothing has to be done toremember our Beloved One.

Just like when our Beloved is going to arrive by train, and we havenot seen him for a long time and we are waiting at the railwaystation for Him, and we feel the anxiety, the longing - When will myBeloved come? When will I see Him? How much longer will it be beforeour eyes meet? This anticipation, this longing is so intense thatone simply cannot wait even a moment. It is consuming ! Just thatone thought.. when will I see my Beloved!

Just like when we are intensely thirsty and are consumed with thethought of a sip of water. Do you have such enthusiasm? Such drive?Such Zeal? Such Intensity? Such Sentiments to meet Your Beloved One,God? - asks Swamiji

Meera DasRam Ram

-----------------------------

Krishna and His song

The Heart,

In longing pain

Cries out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

The Soul rejoices.

 

The Mind

In love's ecstasy

Bows at the feet of the Beloved

The Soul rejoices.

 

And Krishna smiles,

The flute rising to his lips.

Ah! The symphony of the soundless sound,

Where

The seven disappear into the Light of lights

Where

Time disappears into Timelessness

 

And

The Heart,

In longing's pain

Keeps Crying out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

And

Thence comes the Lords song of songs

The Bhagavad geetha, ah !

To assuage the hearts pain

And, the Minds thirst for Knowledge, and Light

aum

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Pawanji ! You have received sterling in sights in response to yourQs, the last one from Mira Dassji. Truth and only truth is there inher last message to you. If you just "accept" with a simple heartwhat she has so eloquently recommended to you, your search gets overeffortlessly, then and there !! Where can Paramatma hide when youstart with goal of BG 7:19? Can ice hidden behind ice ever remainhidden?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Dear Sadhak,Why think to achieve salvation at the "end" ? It cannot be a futuregoal. It is HERE and NOW as stated by sadhak Narinderji.Only effort needed is to be present Here and Now with a deep longingto reach HIM. Now is the eternity zone. All spiritual practices likebreath control, name chanting, mala japa etc leads sadhak to remainin present moment.The whole world is nothing but an illusion, a web of our thinkingmind. When a sadhak practices living in here and now, he is out ofthe grip of his thinking mind and all doing becomes happenings."Sarva Dharma Paritjya, mamekam sharanam vrij"Gitaji. when sadhaksurrender to Krishna, he accept every moment As IT IS and remainssubmerged in the ocean of Love, Bliss and Peace.with Love,a sadhikaSadhna Karigar

Shri HariI am asking question due to my nature-Gita 5(14) & Gita 2(7) butbefore Gita 18(73) & because I know the truth-everything belongs toBhagwan, the essence, I say this but I do not believe the truth, theessence as i say in prayer written by Swami Shri RamsukhdasjiMaharaj.Meera Das & Pratap Bhatt has explained after Gita 18(73)Ram Ram------------------------------

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Swamiji incessantly, relentlessly, persistently spokeabout "Vasudeva Sarvam"(All is God) in the final years in His mortal body. He repeated thismany times- PLEASE READ CAREFUL AND ACCEPT IMMEDIATELY! If there is noquestions ordoubts, then PLEASE ACCEPT RIGHT NOW!

Swamiji said -Whatever is perceived with mind, speech, sight and other senses isonly God.Accept this immediately. The active, inactive, conscious, matter,[born of egg,sweat and sprouting from earth] - all are God and nothing else. Goodor bad,wicked or virtuous, all are God. There is nothing else besides God.He whowishes to attain God should accept this fact. As Shri JaydayaljiGoyandka usedto say that "Whatever is seen is God's divine form and whatever isexperiencedand activities undertaken is His divine play/pastime (lila).

If you are very serious about your question, if you believe in Gita4:11 (thathowever a devotee worships Me, so do I approach them) and have anardent andintense longing to find the answer to this question, it does notmatter if it isat the end of life or not, SIMPLY FROM NOW ONWARDS - EVERYTHING YOUSEE ISBHAGWAAN'S SWAROOP (God's Divine Form) AND EVERYTHING YOUEXPERIENCE/DO IS HISLILA (Divine Play/Pastime).

Now if a devotee worship Bhagwaan in this manner, where canBhagwaanji HIDE?Tell me one place he will not be? Tell me how at the end of thislife, end ofthis human body, He will not be there as Yamdoot (God of Death)?Tell me whereyou will need to go searching for this rare Devotee of God by true & heartfeltsentiments? If your sentiments are true and heartfelt, can you notaccept whatGita says and what Swamiji says that Bhagwaan (Vasudeva) iseverywhere, ineverything, in all that you see, think, feel, do, experience andmore, becausethere is only "Vasudeva" and this is clearly stated in the Gita 7:19and throughout the Gita in Chapter 11 and more!

Do you have any further questions or doubts? Please bring them out!

Meera DasRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sri Pawan kumar

I remember the words of a man who is an ardent devotee of SriRamana. He used to say 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVENIF YOU DO NOT THINK OF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE.

Please contemplate on that

vrsarma podury

PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delayingsalvation" or he may not even need to ask. God would know all trueBhaktas' heartfelt desires for merging in Him.What I mean is the when you are in love with God, unconditionally,you wouldn't want to make loving Him as a means to the end(salvation). Such love or remembering God constantly is in itselfthe means and end, without duality even though on-lookers may feelBhagwaan and Bhakta as separate.I consider salvation as Moksha or liberation from a false senseof "me", non existent ego and establishment in Atman our true Self.Thus salvation is what we already are. If you remember Swamiji saysParamatma is already attained, how can you attain that whihc isattained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what we are, notwe will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.In attaining anything there is duality of someone who attains andsomething to be attained, not the case here in this Bhakti (lovingdevotion).Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa......Karishye tavachanam...."I remember my true Self now Lord, will do what you say".One lives free of "me" as Sat-Chit-Ananda only.In salavation no individual entity survives, it is livingimpersonally, as Intelligence, Love, Peace, Steadfastness! Karmasare done when needed without doer!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,I am remember the boon of Kunti in Mahabharat.She requested LordKrishna to keep them in poverty so that she can remember almightyGod.Still however we should keep that spirit and in spite of alltroubles and our condition we should never avoid offering prayers atleast or twice.We should learn as to hoe to prayer.Please refer tomy book on 'Prayers of all Religions of the world. This is what IfeelTruly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

--------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Sree Pratabji, Kindly bear with me for my mistake. Your goodnesssaid-- say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he havetime to ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living inSalvation?. Baktha is in constant thought of GOD that is why he hasfull time to askGOD why that HE is delaying salvation. Worldly man partly with Godhas time to ask GOD for his desires to be fullfilled one after theother until death. Such man Geetha has said Kamiyartha Baktha, whomGOD gives him long rope fulfilling his desires one after other, GODhoping he will become Jignasu. That hope of GOD is benovolence. Onceagain pardon me if I am wrong and enlighten me.

Salvation is that I thought is attained stage, not living insalvation. Salvation is to be attained and not living in it. Meanstrying for salvation. Once salvation is attained there is nodesires. You are very right Sir.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------

God is available only when we become His and remember His Gloriesand His name many times continuously, then and then we will feel Hispresence within your hearts. He will be seen but his presence willbe felt. This is how Mirabai, Narsinh Mehta and Chaitainya MahaPrabhu realized God.This is what I feel everyday while offering prayers

Truly yoursS S Bhatt

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadak,You are searching GOD outside you . Outside you HE exists, but inVeerat Roop. Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youRproblem ends.B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------Thanks.Believe and love God because Gita 5(29) verdict as explainedby Raja Gurdasani & Kamlesh KumarPawan SinghalRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sadhaks ,The question , in some way, is related to a desire to walk the Pathof a true sadhka . Some thoughts that blossomed from within on twodifferent points of time , are given below. Both are related .

In fewest words, The Path of a sadhak , could perhaps, be stated asfollows :

1.We are what we are , at this point of Time. It could never havebeen ( and , can never be )otherwise .

2.When the Self is Known, all is Known. It is not that all answersare available ( The field of Knowledge is so vast); itis ...that..... all Questions drop....... whatever needs to be knownat a particular point of Time ( always Herenow) is made available toThe Knower of the Self by Existence .

3. Living now is no more ' living in the Time'( Past and Future). Itis always in your own ' presence' ( awareness) in the Here now.Spontaneous living sans Fear , Pain, and delusion.

4.The sense of Doership disappears .

5.Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.

6.Words become Fewer, and they flower from your Silence (Peacefulness ! ) And, They are purposeful. They have Power ( power-----not as the world understands, but the power of God and Love......to transform the seeker ).

7. The Whole Process ( walking the Path ) is for Oneself. If, wewere already Enlightened .............. we shall pass the Test ( weshall Know) by the joy of conduct ...... ( The Conduct is theTest ).Generally, it is , and will be, in accordance with the basicprinciples shown ( given ) by the Knowers of Truth. We shall remainBlissful, and Peaceful .

8. The True Seeker yearns for the Truth, his/ her own Being , withthe intensity of HERENOW. THe Desire is to end all words . Theshortest Way.No prolonging. Minimum Discussion. No argument. No imposition ofones own Concepts. Acceptance of everyone's Being ( SEE 1 Above ),respecting others' Being, respecting his/ her own being .

9. and finally.......( although, one could go on....... ) The way toLight is not through ' acquisition of new knowledge, but yourwillingness to drop your Knowledge ( concepts/ conditionings).Anything that is born, has to die. True Love, True knowledge, Truthof Being, is Unborn, Unchanging and , therefore, Undying. It isalready present in YOU, You are already That .

ah ! what more to say and how ? ( already too many words !! )

-------------For Spiritual Seekers longing for the divine mystical union withthat great Void , we call Existence, Nature, or God :

1. The longing for God is Existence Gift to the Seekers on thesacred Path of love and Light.

2. This longing one day, culminates in Grace, and the personalexperience ( knowing) of the Un-knowable

3. The paradox of Action ( effort) and Grace gets resolved in thatexperience.

4. That resolution of the paradox is the state of being, where˜doing is˜ doing nevermore where all becomes a happenning Graceand yet, there is no running away from doing what needs being done.there is NO running away, because you are not into doing any morerunning away cannot happen. all happens as it happens. ExistencesPlay , with narinder-ness in total acceptance of it a part ofExistential Play and Doing

5.TILL THAT HAPPENS. Doing, much Doing is the Way.. and it is theKnowers of Truth that guide us into attitudes and conduct to strivefor Bhagvada geetha gives to the seeker, the threefold practise of ˜Karma-yoga action , surrendering the fruit to the Lord),Bhakti (devotion) and Gyana ( Knowledge of the True ) . All the scripturesspeak nothing else they speak and shriek, in love of the seekingheart,what is the Way , of the Karma and Dharma

6.The final test of ˜having arrived is your conduct and who is tojudge the conduct ? you, yourself , of course ! it is the movementof the self , for the self; and it is the self , which chooses todie to the self , to realise the Self.

the last thought that comes to the mind is . that the self, when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.

Narinder bhandari

AUM----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is just to answer Sathyanarayanji's observations on my previouspost!I say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have time toask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in Salvation?

I say this to emphasize "remembering God and not expectinganything", just unconditional love for God goes a long way.No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead to anhilationof "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger, jealousy, etc) haveno footing. "me" is ignorance who thrives on shadripus(6 enemies)!Such Bhaktas don't say they are in salvation but we can ceratinlysay they are, to pay our respect!Even if Bhaktas like Kabirji and Prahladji asked something from God,it still is alright to just keep rememebring God without expecting,isn't it? Gita teaches us too. Each of Bhaktas may have differentapproaches to teach us to be true Bhaktas. We have to be inspired bysuch Bhaktas, not necessarily copy them. They are all unique intheir own way is the proof of different expressions of the sametruth.Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Q: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for AttainingSalvation?

Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! There are nosentiments - rather no emotions of any sort - there either.Remembering The God is another myth.

Then it remains a puzzle, why such a natural reality is not felt?!Why can't we even remember That when it is claimed to be ever-present?! What is the problem??!! The reason is the imbibed cataractin terms of our wrong notions (ignorance) and corrupt attitude(inertia). Just like the vison becomes clear on the removal of itshinderance, our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed. Sadhana is the process of removal of theignorance and inertia that cloud our existence, perception andexperience limiting us to imagine everything within these domains.Our dependence on these mechanisms of existence makes us insist fortheir approval for everything - even The God. The dependence is sostrong and opaque that we can't even dream of any alternative.Hence the insistence, if there is any reality, it should be revealedhere!

Unfortunately, finite cannot withold the infinite! The Upanishadsmake it very clear:

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

The Absolute cannot be approached by any relative media such aslistening, thinking, discussion, talking, etc. irrespective of theself-proclaimed excellence in the same. All perceived objects aswell as ideas remain finite within the limited perception itself.Therefore, The Truth remains oblivious to the cognition as far asthere is insistence for seeing everything through the lens ofcognition only. As natural to a lense, it can capture only what itsees and can transmit only what it can. In fact, what is transmittedmay not even resemble the original often thanks to its spatialboundaries, color filtering and refractional distortions. The imagesensed within and the object attempted to be sensed remain alien toeach other thanks to the opaqueness in the very cognitive system.Therefore, any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional reality isfutile in the first place.

But, the ever-present reality should be theoretically the easiest tobe attained … in fact it is already there even without any effort ofseeking! Then what is the difficulty? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.The ever-attained is ever-ready for a seeker if he/she ever couldjust escape the clutches of self-woven fish-net of desires and fearscocooned within opaque shell of ignorance and inertia. If one couldjust drop the dependence on these, THAT is naturally THERE for everyone!

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanumswaam ||

Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT which isThe You before your birth, at your birth, through your life, at yourdeath, and after your death. If you let yourself be … THAT revealsitself within and around.

Ramana Maharshi puts his brilliant depth of appreciation beautifully:

Ulladalad ull unarv ullado?Ulla porul ullal ara ullatte ulladaal.Ullam enum ulla porul ullal evan?Ullatte ullabadi ullade ullal unar ||

I beg Maharshi's pardon as I am tempted to give its Kannadaequivalent in my limited understanding, in case any could benefitfrom,

Iralaarada ola-iruvu iruvudentu?Ola-arivu olage nintu hora baaradu.Horabaarada ola-iruvanu porevudentu?Ola-iruvanu aritu iruva arive nija.

Grossly, it means,

How can there be a sense of existence without something beingwithin?The being within remains "as is" NOT seeking anything.How to attain the one within that seeks nothing? and, who can everattain That?Understand that you can attain the one within by just being withinseeking nothing.

Swami Ramsukhdasji lays out a clear strategy to develop the strengthwithin to turn our focus from our conceived world to The Reality inhis revelation on "Bhagavattattva" (Sadhan Sudha Sindhu):

1. Purify the Bahih Karana (extrinsic awareness) to develop AntahKarana (intrinsic awareness).2. Filter the Antah Karana to extract Viveka Drishti (innateawareness).3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to remain in The Tattva … The Absolute(That is often called Tattva Drishti or Salvation etc.)

I have never seen such out-spoken and clear-cut strategy in thisregard elsewhere so far. I recommend everyone to study The Nectar hegenerously pours out for everyone of us with care. FYI, it is beingcurrently circulated.

Respects.

Naga Narayana------------------------------Hari Om

Pawanji ! You "become" of Paramatma ! Just As: Without any practicea wife "becomes" of her husband. Accept firmly once with a simpleheart: I am of the God, only God is mine.

Once you do that Bhajan has started unceasingly in you. The "karta"(doer/thinker/ego) has become of God, now all the karmas have becomeGodly- naturally. The real Bhajan/remembering/thinking about God isthat which "happens" effortlessly and which is not "done" .

Look at the status today. We "have to" think/remember about God,while thinking/remembering about the world "happens automatically".

Why? Because at "subtle ego level" we continue to be of world. Hencethoughts about the world are automatic. While remaining of the worldonly , we want to remember/think about God- hence we experienceproblems in concentrating.

CHANGE YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" ! Thereuponbhajan will be automatic and remembering about the world will "haveto be done"!

As simple as that !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Thanks to all. I want to know sixteen powers which given by God sothat we can do many good things in life and we will be happy asposting by Shri Shankerprasad S. Bhatt.I agree God is doing most vital actions of our life withoutinterruption & without any noise also without showing any ehsan.I have to renounce desire-Gita 2(47), I concluded from the postingof all sadhakRam Ram

pawan singhal--------------------------------Shree HariRam RamPawanji, kindly post "sixteen powers by God" as separate question.From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakIn my view & experience I suggest please realise god work in everylittle bit of action happening in & around U.Like heart beat. Think who is doing it?Like breathing.Like digesting whatever u eat & nourishment of ur body.Can U do all this?Then it is proved that god is doing most vital actions of our lifewithout interruption and without any noise. also without showing anyehsan.Doesnt it make u believe & love god?If yes love moreif no ask urself why why u are so ehsan faramosh.Sorry if I hurt U.I didnt mean it.thanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation? THUS said Sri Pratab.Bakthas at various levels asked Bagavan to help in distress andasked HIM to liberate him from this world. There are numerable songswere Bakthas were asking with GOD, to liberate one from the 6enemies (^ bad Gunas -Kama, Krodh etc). Even Prahalad who was withSri Vishnu all the time, sang so. Kabir did so. Though they werehighly elevated souls why they sang so? Because they never left anatom of thought any part of their life that they are already insalvation. This thought they knew is Ego in disguise which is nottracable.But if one understood he is already in salvation, he becomes dumb.Behaves like Pagal Baba, never cares to even dress, never cares forfood. Those great men we recognised them as "Chitta Braman", (metalyhandicap). We are accustomed in seeing world, so to our eyes theywill be Pagal. But after their disappearence we build temples.

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Pawan Kumar ji,I am inspired by God to write to you on the subject.Love is God.God is Love.Love allServe all.See God in every creation of God. God in you is the God in everyone.Serve every creation of God is the purpose of every human who isgiven this blessed Birth.Think GoodSee GoodHear GoodDo Good.

Every moment / breath of life in you is the blessing of God , sothank God for giving you an opportunity to serve HIM by serving HIScreation.

By doing this you will realize the and attain Salvation. Choice iswith you but to do this you always need the blessings of thatSupreme. and HE who will inspire you and guide you the path ofsalvation. Do your Good Karma and leave the fruit of that unto HIMto decide.

It is like you wish to win a lottery but never bought the ticket.

One need to have a strong determination and go step by step anddrop by drop you can fill the ocean.

I apologize, if I hurt your feelings in any wayWith Warmest Regards and Ever Flowing Eternal LoveKAMLESH KUMARHELP EVER HURT NEVERLOVE ALL SERVE ALLHAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

Kamlesh Kumar------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Q: How can I get salvation at least at the end?Answer( to me at least): By not expecting salvation! When "I" whoexpect salvation or whatever, and salvation itself are seen to beone and the same, salvation has happened.In otherwords, I and desired object are understood to be the same,duality of subject object ceases and all struggles to desireanything vanishes, leaving God only, experienced as Peace, Love,Beauty, Harmony, Joy!Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?It is only by constantly desiring one pushes away the object ofdesire!when expectations or desires including that of Moksha end, "I" alsoend at the same time, not later!See the truth of this statement, and start living, stop expecting!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Dear Sadak,pawan kumar singha. Very simple. If your basic duties are over andif you want to quit worldly life, then it is surely possible.Bagavan has very clearly said in Geetha, "Aninya Chitayayome", meansconstant thought on ME, that soul I (Bagavan) takes over. Yourresponsibility in search of HIM ceases, but on the other hand HISresponsibility takes over.This also Bagavan has said in Geetha, that by HIS sankalp HE willliberate HIS baktha in same birth.Totally dedicate everything to Bagavan by Pooja, Bhajan, makinggarlands for Bhagavan, growing fruits for Bhagwaan, listeningscriptures/puranas Etc, learning vedic way of life in food, sleepand practice, washing cloths for Bhagavan, cleaning temple, lightinglamps, looking at HIM with love and affection, saying Japa walkingaround HIM (Idol), just pronouncing Govinda, Madhava, Sri KrishanayaVasudevaya Mukundhaya Namo Namo as one walks around garden. In allmoments to dedicate everything to Bagavan, B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------Dear Sadhak,

Every one should have knowledge of how he or she got this form ofhuman being after many turns of birth and death in 8.4 milliondifferent forms of births. If we know we will always remember Himbecause we are obligated to Him

Secondly if we know that after giving human birth God gave us somesixteen divine powers so that we can do many good things in life andwe will be happy.Shankerprasad S Bhatt

----------------------------We can do sewa, satsang, sadhna and meditation which spiritualpractices will definitely lead us in the right direction.Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------------------SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS- Love is God. God is Love. Love all. Serve all.See God in All. God in you is the God in All.Serve All.Think Good. See Good. Hear Good. Do Good. Leave the Fruit to Him.Every breath is blessing of God, so thank God for his blessing toserve His creation! Thus, realize and attain Salvation. Choice isyours, but by His blessings, inspiration, guidance you will attain.- "Aninya Chitayayome", means constant thought on ME, that soul I(Bagavan) takes over. By HIS sankalp HE will liberate HIS baktha insame birth. In all moments to dedicate everything to Bhagavan.- Can get salvation, by not expecting salvation'- by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of desire!- all struggles to desire anything vanishes, leaving God only,experienced as Peace, Love, Beauty, Harmony, Joy!- Bhakta constantly remembers God, loosing himself, thus living inSalvation. Does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?- god is doing most vital actions of our life without interruptionand without any noise. also without showing any ehsan.- after human birth in 8.4 million different life forms... we areeternally obligated to Bhagwaan- Our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed.- Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! finite cannotwithold the infinite! Any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptionalreality is futile in the first place. what is the difficulty inrealizing that which is ever-present? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT.Remain "as is" NOT seeking anything. Simply be!Approach: 1) Purify the extrinsic awareness; Filter the intrinsicawareness to extract Viveka Drishti 3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti toremain in The Tattva … The Absolute- Become of "Paramatma", then bhajan starts unceasingly, the 'karta'has become of God. Our problem is that at "subtle ego level" wecontinue to be of world, hence thoughts of world are automatic.Change YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" !- remembering God and not expecting anything, just unconditionallove for God. No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) leadto anhilation of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger,jealousy, etc) have no footing.- Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR problem ends.- all Questions drop - whatever needs to be known is known.- living in the present, Now and here.- sense of Doership disappears- Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.- Words become Fewer- True Seeker yearns for the Truth, HERENOW. No prolonging. MinimumDiscussion. No argument. No imposition. Acceptance of everyone'sBeing ( SEE 1 Above ),- and finally... drop all Knowledge- longing for God is Existence Gift- for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to die to theself , torealise the Self. when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.- 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINKOF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE

-------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

[Guest guest]

I am in search of devotee of God by true & heartfelt sentiments which is rarebut is somewhere -Gita 7(19).

God is easily attainable-Gita 8(14) by thinking/remembering-Gita 4(11). Mymessage is how can I think of God & remember God by true sentiments so that ican get salvation at the end at least as per Gita 8(5).

pawan kumar singhalRam Ram-------------------------------NEW POSTING

Hari OmHere is sharing a personal experience.I carry this desire of remembering God at the last moment. So I developed a habit- taking God's name whenever I yawn, or there are hiccups (hichaki) or whenever any bad thought comes in the mind or whenever any sudden pain is there in the body. This I did for a long time ( for 2o years now) and now it spontaneously occurs. But this did not work. Once I fell in the bathroom fall. It was sudden and from my mouth spontaneously came the words " O Maa" ! That made me worried. Incidentally, within 2/3 days of that I heard Swamiji pravachan and there he narrated story of parrot which keeps uttering "Raam Raam Raam" but when the cat comes, it forgets and starts saying "tain tain tain" !! I have rarely seen people remembering God at the last moment. They are either scared or still worried about world after them, what will happen to those who remain behind. Even cancer patients, I saw them worrying about their wives and children. Deep inside, the importance of world causes that. Hence change of Ego is warrantedThe best way, as always, has come from Miraji Dass. Practice of Vasudev Sarvam. "Becoming of God" ( firm acceptance that only God is mine ) is essential for that. Change of very ego from worldly to divine is a MUST. Gita is very strict. It wants you to remember Him always. Swamiji made it easy by giving us a method to do that- Become of God by firm acceptance. Change your very ego.Jai Shree KrishnaVyas N B

.......................................... I am the syllable OM, ,...................................................

______________________ ( Bhagvada Geetha CH, 9/ Sh 17 )

OM

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

The soundless sound The wordless word.... Silence... Silence

The womb of all words that lead us into its own Being....silence !

As also plays the game of words

That lead us away from Itself... it's own Being

Into the vastness of the Brahamand !

Love it is ......

that choicelessly gives us.... The freedom to choose

And keeps on playing the Game .... till we choose Love

to enter the portals of Love divine ! Itself

Silence ..... Being

Om

The soundless sound divine !

Narinder Bhandari

-------------------------------

The Song of Love

The song of Love ... Is an unending Melody

It's roots lie in the Joy of the song ... And the harping on the Strings

Is the Gift Divine .... The Grace of the Guru.

The song has you in thrall, narinder ! It is not your singing.

The dancing of your feet is the Bliss of the song

It is not your dancing.

To the breath of Krishna bows narinder

For, His breath indeed is that song.

And, to the Silent Song of Govinda,

Nari's feet tap in rhythm ..... While the clap of one hand

Reverberates in the universe...... As the soundless sound of OM !

AUM

 

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------

Dear Moderator and other learned Sadhaks,

 

Acres of romantic charm but meaningless blank verses holds waters for a pure egoistic who is just a slave of words. Poetry / quotes used to simplify the path of self-realisation is understandable but anything beyond is questionable ....

 

I come across many learned persons who express in flowery language about absolute truth no centre, no periphery, no radius, all one, etc etc. by borrowing from great masters, but only intellectually to impress others which may be of limited benefit for persons like us who are not interested in advertisements of mineral waters/cold drinks, but want to quench our thirst. No menu please, give us water.

 

I request briefness and with few lucid lines according to Gita and its great interpreters. Misinterpreteing the Gita-teachings to suite one's own ways will not be beneficial to the masses who may be lead astray.

 

My purpose is that this is not a forum where one will vomit one's personal fancies and whims by putting on the false "detached-from-the-ego" mask. If these kinds of posts are encouraged, this would be akin to "burning others houses to bake one's potatoes". Here, it implies, devaluing the Gita and its great seers-preachers-implementers to decorate one's own ego.

 

I am sending this mail in the interest of this forum, and not against any individual. Let us stick to the Gita and its relevance to our life. Please understand the goodwill. For realized souls "silence is deep as eternity and speech is shallow as time".

 

In the interest of all, let us stick to the holy book and its related topics.

Regards,

Suresh C Sharma

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariAs regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Very clear reply of Vyas N B on the line of Swamiji is acceptable to me. I will try to accept affinity with God (Gita 15/7).I feel the grace of God(Gita 5/29) on 07.03.2009Ram Rampawan singhal --------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Please bear with me. As Sri Pratabji said that several births discouraging, it is true. Hope to attain realization may reduce or thought futile. But this is not my statement of attaining GOD in several births, but it is Sri Krishna` s in Bagavath Geetha. But in same Bagavath Geetha Sri Krishna also tells that if HE wishes HE can uplift one in the same birth. Contradictory statement of Bagavan. Here sadaks can completely rely upon the second statement of Bagavan and reach HIM straight away. Bagavan has said two methodsof reaching HIM. One right now. Another over several births. Sri Pratabji and Sri Vyasji will explain much better than me to Sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram Our inner sentiments (Bhaav) drive everything! Also our anubhava (experience/knowledge) tell us everything - the Truth (if we pay attention to it). We are experiencing abhaav (asat, perishability, changing, unreal) all the time, but choose to ignore our anubhava... If we give importance to our experience at this VERY MOMENT, liberation it shall be. Unfortunately, every thing we do is AGAINST our ANUBHAVA. We simply DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT our Anubhava. Gita clearly states - SELF cannot derive pleasure from ASAT (perishable)... yet entire life is dedicated to just doing that alone. (Gita 13:31).

Gita and Swamiji have made this PERFECTLY CLEAR - Till there is desire there is interest in the world. Once the desire goes, the interest goes. Once the interest goes - you become selfless. When you become selfless, your sorrows go, and once your sorrows go - you attain bliss (salvation, realization, benediction, moksha, Truth, God, Beloved, SatChitAnand). Whatever you may call this state. Therefore LEAVE THE DESIRE FOR ASAT. Simply DONOT GO AGAINST YOUR ANUBHAV NO MATTER WHAT, ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH. Where is the DOUBT now?

The recipe is clearly laid out. Simply FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS !!!!

But if you still do not want to follow the directions, continuing to add poison to the ingredients, then simply CALL OUT TO GOD FOR HELP!!! HEY NAATH ! HEY MERE NAATH ! HELP ME !

 

Only we humans have the ability to pay attention and respect our ANUBHAV(experience/knowledge). That is all there is to it!

Meera Das

Ram Ram

====================================

PRIOR POSTING

Time is just a thought which references a point in the past, and thought arise in ............

How True , Partap jee, how true ! what to do ....... ah.................... what should poor nari do..............? The natkhat is the Vasudeva Sarvam and Time is only a thought ................ no reality ! how impotent narinder becomes , while Krishna plays and plays ............ ah ! Beloved Krishna

In the game of twoness

You smile as One-ness.

And

In the bliss of one-ness

You dance as two-ness!

 

And, it seems to poor narinder

That

Only Loving is real; You and I false

You are false, Govinda, You are false

You do not exist, nor I

Only Love exists

But even so,

and narinder cannot help loving YOU !

When I say ‘I love You Govinda’, why do you smile?

Love is real

Love alone is real

And

In its mad dance of loving

It chooses to become for one moment

You , The Lord of Lords

And I, Your eternal plaything, your slave, your beloved

Pining and yearning for You

Ecstatically seeking oblivion

In Your look

In Your smile

In your touch.

 

Ah, Krishna ! You are NOT fair !

AUM

narinder

------------------------------

Ah, my friends, once narinder ventured to ask Krishna what Love is, and how to love God, who is Love !

"O Beloved,….. Love, the mystery, the mystery that you are Beloved, how can it ever be `known'! How can anyone ever know and understand it! Love is Un–knowable! You, my Beloved, are un-knowable. Only you know yourself by yourself… only you reveal to your own Self , the mystery of Love and Loving !"

And........... Thus Spake Krishna

"O narinder…. You can not know Love, but you can be Love, you can only Be. Be that Love. Be love. And, narinder, when you are Love, you `know' Love. You know what Love IS.

Ah ! Narinder, who wish to capture Love in words, let us share a moment … let us become Love, This Moment Now. The love, which is the opposite of `hate' is not what Love is . The love, which embraces hate, which co-exists along with `hate', is Being, is Love .

You can not know love ….. you cannot `do' love…. But you can feel Love. You can be Love. Love is not a `doing'.Love is a happening.Love is not a ' thought'...... thinking. Love is a feeling.

Love is your Being, your whole-ness, your crying need not to withhold anything from anyone, nor inflict anything on anyone.

A million words may be written about love. But if you have not felt it, you have not known it as your own Being-ness---------------you know nothing about Love! And, …. if you have felt it … felt it as your blood, bone and marrow, as your breath and consciousness, as your whole Being, as that, without which, you feel ` not alive'…. Then, narinder, you need no words, no affirmation, no proof, no knowledge…. You need no discussion, no analysis. Love is sufficient unto Love .

Ah ! Narinder…. You are love infinite. Infinite and choiceless; and you are the creator , sustainer and destroyer.Blessed by Love,you create in love. In Love, you sustain, and destroy too… in Love. All your doing, all your knowing , which in truth is of the nature of ` not –doing'… and `not – knowing, is nothing but Love. O nari, what indeed can be said of love! Only Love can know what love is! …….Not I …. not I … not I…. Love is `not I ' And yet, O narinder, Love and I, I and Love, are not –two. I indeed am Love!"

"Thank You, Beloved , thank you for leading Nari to Yourself for understanding of Love," This, now Narinder prays, "O Beloved….. lead me, O Lord, to the presence of those, who have known Love … who are love… who are Krishna … who you are ! Because, Govinda, my heart and soul are scorched by the heat of Love! And the fire can only be extinguished by the ambrosial showers of love from your Bhaktas, who have known Love, who are Love… who you yourself are! "

Jai Krishna, Jai Jai ! AUM

narinder

===================================================PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Let me reflect upon Vasudev Sathyanarainji's messages as discussed upon by various sadhaks, including by Shri Pratapji. Beautiful brain storming arguments. There are 2 things in substance. One- Bahunaa Janamnaamante (BG 7:19) and another who binds whom? Maya to Purusha or vice versa.

Vasudev Sathyanarainji is absolutely right. Pratapji is also not wrong. Yes after many many births ! After a long long series of lying into various wombs of different species of mothers- one gets ultimately the human life. We all have got it. For all of us this can be the LAST life- God is attained for all of us. We simply have to believe this fact. That is all.The moment you get human life- Paramatma is attained. (Prarabdha pahale racha, peechhe racha shareer- first our object has been finalised, later we got human body) You only have to realise that! Matter ends. In human life only, you can presume He is attained and realise that. (this can be, actually, the 'anta' -last- of all life forms, because the chain started from here only- from a human birth in the past).. Here only you can say - He is attained. NO WHERE ELSE ! There is no question of "when" ! Now !! In this very human birth and always/ever - so long we remain human ! How TIME comes in between ? What poor time has got to do with it? TIME has already turned in our favour as we got human birth.

As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Who else can leave it? Who else accepted it? Maya means- that which does not exist. Self means- that which exists. When Self exists and Maya does not exist, the deliberation has to begin and end with Self only. The acceptance was by us. The renunciation has to be by us. What poor non existent Maya has got anything to do with bondage? Maya has no capacity to bind us. It does not exist. We keep talking/thinking/ relying upon it through mind/time/ignorance type of webs. Where is Maya to bind us? Something must exist at first place to bind us !! Leave shelter of mind- you are free ! Where is bondage thereafter?

Hope the above answers the questions raised and the essence of delibreations. What can be the role of mind or time there?

I have not read full series of arguments (read today only, to the extent trail is there on my BB - full trail is not there). May be I missed something from beginning. Let me know if I have. I will clarify/amend.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,Pranams.In recent post, I started a story - tree is holding me, & left to be told some other time; I think this is a perfect place :-)A guru had 2 disciples - younge (Y) & older (O). Guru: I am going to die soon so tell me what will you do after I am gone. O: I'd continue my search for God following your teachings while remaining brahmachari (celibate). Y: I'd continue my search for God remaining in family as my parents would like. Guru blessed both but called O & requested to keep an eye on Y & died. Few years later O visited Y & was happy to see him doing sadhana while remaining married. Few years passed, O visited Y again, but the picture is different. Y is in the midst of maya with his wife and kids and has almost forgotten God. O reminded him of God & promise given to guru. Y promised to start his sadhana & next time when O comes, to join him in sanyas as his kids would have been settled. Few years later O came back to take Y for sanyas. Y said he can't leave now as his son's wife had delivered a baby (B) & no one takes better care of B then he. Let it grow a little, when B goes to school he will join O. Y understood the problem. Next day early morning Y heard someone is shouting for help. O ran outside, saw that O has hugged a tree tightly & shouting for help claiming that this tree is not letting him go. O claimed over n over that this tree is holding him so tight that despite of his trying he can't free himself! Y understood the message & left immediately with O for to complete his sadhana for God realization! We claim all the time that maya is holding us back but it is not true, we are holding on to maya and that's where the problem is. Nothing is wrong w/maya. Maya is as eternal as God himself but trying to catch hold of shadow is ignorance. As Swamiji has said - holding on requires efforts, letting go doesn't... No need to leave the house, no need to go anywhere, God is present everywhere so do your duty but in God conciousness w/o attachment, that's all. It is that simple. Baba always says - remain compassionately detached. Even though you leave your family & go to jungle, maya will follow you as you are carrying it in your head. humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----Dear Sadaks,Thus answered Sri Vyasji, ""Na me bhaktah pransyati? There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can deviate from HIS oath but not from the oath of HIS Bhakta"". I liked to hear from Vyasji though I knew it. Now who is Baktha? Defenition of Baktha?Slowly developing love (Desire for reading divine books, listening recorded divine lectures, meeting and spending time with Saadhus, sitting alone and craving for GOD) is one who is Baktha. Bagavan says, Kamiyartha Baktha, Prema Baktha, Niskama Prema Baktha. Only in Bakthi Marg, Bagavan takes over HIS Bakthas from start (Person who is desiring for GD0). In Sanyasa Marg or in Yog Marg Bagavan remains wittness, because in these 2 Margs Sanyasi or Yogi does have somewhere in a corner of his mind (Without his awareness) that he is Kartha for Sanyas or Yog. Bagavan said in Geetha that Sanyasi or Yogi fails several times before reaching HIM. Example: Sanakathis (Sri Bhramaji Manasa Puthras) fell pray to anger at doors of Vaikunt in cursing Jaya and Vijaya. But in case of Baktha behaving with Krodh/Kama/Loba etc HE takes care to rectify and make him realize. So many cases are there. Jai Sri krishnaB.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!One more point I want to share on Sathyanarayanji's post on Geeta saying "thatman does attain me in one of several births", so God is already attained butwhen is the question(time factor).If we look closely, that which we really are, Atman-Self-Consciousness nevertakes birth nor dies. Our ignorance as desires, latent tendencies-vaasanasacquired while in physical body forms subtle body(sanskaras) and it merges withcosmic subtle body or mass karmas of all beings upon death. It gets recycledthrough another body and ignorance continues its journey further until itrealizes its true nature in some human birth. So that which we truly are nevertakes re-birth. Thus by the time one realizes many births may have gone, butonly in ignorance, like in a dream! This is what I think Krishnaji may havemeant.Upon realizing Atman how does it matter how many births have gone? Again we saythis to emphasize the immediacy of the Realization. From the point of view ofmind, time is there, but time has not played any part in realization.How can it, it is not real. It is a simplistic and pragmatic assumptions. Evenan hour by clock time is experienced differently by different people, some findit too long when perceived boring, some find it too quick when perceivedinteresting! Time which is of Maya is flowing, and can never be experienced bymind. Thus what we call NOW is not mind's experience, it is mind's concept ofzero duration! Like in a dream we can experience whole life in few minutes, butupon waking up, there was no reality! So by saying it takes several births torealize we don't convey any value to those on the path of inquiry, on thecontrary it discourages.Besides, several births are only almost zero second to God, whose Grace bestowsRealization to those who are in fit to receive in His judgment!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------Dear sadaks,Sri Vyasji has given nice explanation to my query BG 9:31- Na me bhaktahpransyati? Thank you.B.Sathyanarayan------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, please accept my pranaam, you need not beg pardon! we areonly exchanging our understanding! Let us be in the spirit of oneness as yousaid and freely exchange!Let me do the best I can to clarify. "Does Maya bind us or we are binded byMaya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting ourselves intoMaya", you asked.Maya binds us as long as we don't inquire who we truly ARE! We consider us asbody-mind limited entity and it continues as long as we allow it to gounchecked! We do have freedom for this inquiry! We can be free of suchignorance, and stop Maya at individual level. However, if we don't exercise thisfreedom in this birth, we continue to live in ignorance of Maya! So, Maya haspower only if we give it to! Maya stays away from True Bhaktas you give examplesof many times! Those bent on inquiry are Bhaktas of TRUTH!Maya also refers to illusion at cosmic level, is universal for all of us! Forexample, rainbow is illusion in the sense seven colors are seen as magnificentbow(of Rama as some say) just from rain water and sunlight, or mirrage seen indesert etc etc. Even when we know the truth we continue to see Rainbow andmirrages, however, it cannot bind us anymore, on the contrary it is joy all theway.Stories in our puranas are to emphasize the importance of stepping out of Maya,and some dramatization always help in such stories. Narada has this big ego ofwinning Maya, so, he was fooled is one such example!When we look at the world and take objects as real, not knowing it as Ishwara,its reality, it is due to Maya principle, it is said. It means, Maya is not aproblem, but to consider it REAL is the ignorance! If Maya can end, it isappearance and not permanent, that which appears but is not, Permanent is THATwhich never ceases to be. BG 2:16.Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Shri HariI belong to God -I accepted it first of all. One could see who has gyan & othercould not see who has agyan. I and my-ness is main obstacle which i finddifficult to conquer to get peace(Gita 2.71). I am trying as sadhak.Ram Rampawan singhal------------------

NEW POSTING

Thank you all for your insights and co-operation. On having satsang withdevotees of Swamiji in Vrindavan (Shri Nawal Ram ji and consulting ShriRameshji Maharaj by telephone), I learned the following -

Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind's nature to bein constant search. Search of worldly matters and things or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically divert from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.

Jai Sri Krishnapawan singhal

-----

Hari Om

It is so divine to read message of Catherine to Sadhaks. Nothing more needs tobe done. Nothing more needs to be known. Nothing more needs to be got. Such isthe power in what she is practicing. You have caught the nerve of Satsanga-Sadhika Catherine. My pranaams to you.

Sathyanarainji ! Are you referring Sir to BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah pransyati?There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfallof His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) candeviate fron His oath but not from the oath of His Bhakta, viz Arjuna. It is aguarantee of highest order by Paramatma to the Sadhaks. If you turn towards Me ,you shall never fall thereafter ! Krishna had, before Mahabharat War had takenan oath that he shall not lift weapon in the war. When Bheesma Pitamah knew,then he took the oath that I will make Krishna lift the weapon. Krishna forgotabout His oath and ensured that Bhishma Pitamah's oath is protected and liftedthe wheel of a broken Ratha ( chariot) and ran after Bhisma. . Such is the God,Dear Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, you need not beg pardon. We are exchanging ourunderstanding on this wisdom platform! God is really playing by being us in ourroles, I am sure of this as you are! I am not attached to what I share withsadhakas, and never insist it is the only truth!It has and is helping me to go deep within to feel the hidden, invisiblePresence and put few words around it as if finger is pointing at Moon. Just asfinger cannot touch the moon, mind cannot conceive the Presence, SELF! This maysound like bad news. but the good news is: since Self is already what "I" is,ever attained! So "I" cannot attain "SELF", just as eyes cannot see eyes even asthey see everything. The Grace points to the eyes "my dear, the fact that yousee everything is the proof of your Being more than what you see, so stopsearching and just be!". The eyes heed and realize, not that they will seethemselves ever, but the need to see themselves disappear altogether! Mind ispointed the same truth "you cannot see God separate from you, You ARE IT!It is the same here, all attempts to attain Paramatman by "me", non existententity, stops. Then all notions, beliefs which are images in the mind of Godbeing separate from "me" drop away in this Realization!In that Realization, mind becomes quiet, peaceful on its own in which Glimpse ofAtman is natural. So, I don't entertain any ideas about separate God right atthe outset, not wait for Realization to happen!This is what I understand by Paramatman is already attained! Vasudeva Sarvamfrom the beginning!

Unfortunately mind comes back and claims that Glimpse(of God) to be his ownexperience, not realizing that it was absent when Glimpse was Present. Kabirjiputs this as "Either Hari or "me", both cannot be present on the path ofLOVE"(Prem gali ati sankari, tame na samay do................).The Grace by the way, takes the guise of Swamiji or like him or scripture ordevotion or Satsang with spiritual friends like thhis forum.So why don't we realize now? Realization is like glimpses, like lightening,flashes here and flashes there, in time frame from the point of mind, but notdue to time really! When someone realizes SELF, it has nothing to do withelapsed time, because suppose if the same one didn't realize then also timewould have elapsed, right? So time is not the independent variable in theequation at all, only understanding brings it! Understanding means Devotion orSelf-less Karmas or any combinations, but finally only Grace will do it! You canonly go to the Gateless Gate and wait, and the doors open when God wants it!This is the reason Saints say that you do sadhana, and in time You will realize.Time is just a thought which references a point in the past and thought arise inus such as "oh, it took 5 years to realize or change" etc etc. No one canexperience the time in chronological way(it is running river), we experienceonly interveals of time as thoughts only. Thought is psychological time,thoughts creates time(and space too)! see for yourself.Few more clarifications later!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--\------

PRIOR POSTING

I am devotee of God and have never had doubts of his existence. I attain Godthis way. I put in different places little post it notes, Please do not let meforget You even for a moment, I say He Naath, He Mere Naath, I think on Bagwaan,Paramatma and Vasudev Sarvam all times. I use prayer of Oh Father let me neverforget you even for a moment, oh Compassionate One, let Your sweet memory bealways with me.Oh kind hearted my Father, my Master there is no one else, let menot forget you even in my dreams,while walking, eating, sleeping let me onlythink of You.In whatever I do let me always think of You.Your sweet, sweetmemories ever remain.Please grace me with this remembrance.. whatever work thatis being done yet in my heart, in my mind there is only God. Please I lie atyour lotus feet entreating let not even a moment pass without me rememberingyou, let me think of you every second, HE NAATH HE MERE NAATH Let me neverforget, let me remember all times...

catherine

--------------------------------

Hari Om

Pawanji. Why you should consider some thing to be difficult to conquer? What isthe difficulty?

What is yours? A thing/body over which you have no independent control , canthat be yours? By what yardstick you consider some thing/body to be yours? Athing/body which was not yours in the past, not going to be yours in the future,at present also it is constantly drifting away from you, how that thing can beyours? Where is the difficulty in understanding this simple fact?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---Dear sadaks,I first beg pardon from Sri Pratabji. Sri Pratabji, Sri Vyasji, Sri Mikeji, andall those NAMES mentioned by Sri Vyasji are one of Paramathuma` s and notdifferant. Only names divides to produce sounds. Sri Pratabji, it is not me whoimplied on you. Where is you or me? We are one and the same as said by you.Sri Pratabji you have answered in your posting. That is, ""We make suchstatements as "until you realize Self or Paramatman, you are in Maya, bondage!But I say until you choose to remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Iknew you will precisely answer and only in that sense I requested you.One more clarification from sadaks on the above line,""until you choose toremain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Does Maya bind us or we arebinded by Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we gettingourselves into Maya" Some sadak has written about Naradhji getting monkey facebecause he said he won Maya. Maya has played with Paramathuma when HE decendedto earth as Badrinarayana, and with Bagavan Shiva and Maya lost & went back inshame.""Swamiji means what he said "Paramatman is already attained", is a statement offact we need to discover for ourselves!"" promtly said by SriPratabjiBagavan said in Geetha that line, ""Aneka Samshidayah-------". That man doesattain me in one of the several births."" which means that man alreadyattained, but when is the question (Time factor).Dear Sadaks, kindly enlighten me on the line starting with ""Name Baktha-----""said in Geetha. Please be precise in answer with a story example if possible.Namaste to Sri Pratabji and all other sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

 

--------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadak, (pawan singhal )Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind nature to be inconstant search. Search of worldly matters and things/ Or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically diverse from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Pratab Bhatt says, To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying salvation" or he maynot even need to ask. God would know all true Bhaktas' heartfelt desires formerging in Him."" But Swamiji saidGoswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and free me of desires, angerand faults'. Only `Give me your devotion as that alone will suffice.' 3rd March,2009, Tuesday Falgun Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Mangalvar

Sri Pratab I know he will have answer for SadhaksJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------------------------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Pratabji thus said so is absolutely correct, Thus salvation is what wealready are. If you remember Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, how canyou attain that which is attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is whatwe are, not we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.

Now the question comes from ordinary men. -1) I am fraud, doing all underhand dealings, I cheat people and bank or evennation, I know how bad I am. Sir, you are telling me that I already attainedParamathuma .2) Politician said, I know what I am doing and Sir you call me I attainedParamathuma. Don’t be kidding.3) Student said, I have to achieve so much in life Sir you say I attainedParamathuma.4) Householder said, I have to get my children married and see that they getsettled, don’t be joking I attained Paramathuma.

What Swamiji said was also correct. Then where came the difference?

Human alone is blessed with such a body and intellect that can discriminate goodand bad, body and the soul, jeeva and paramathuma. Now a boy is told that he isfit to become doctor. He studies hard and gets Degree as a doctor. He did notknow he can become doctor until told. He then studied well and became doctoronly on listening to advisor (Guru). So Swamiji shares the teachings of the Gitaand scriptures saying human has in built capacity and ability to attain God.Which means that one need not fear that he cannot attain GOD, as he has allprovisions to attain God. But human does not know this power within is there.Now take animals they don't have that power to attain God, except in exceptionalcases. Animals have to raise to human level to attain God. Referance; KapilaGeetha told by Bagavan to Deva Hoothi. Even devatas, Indra etc are to take humanbirth and get salvation says Vedas. This valuable life gift (Godliness) isattained, but unaware of the birth of a human birth gift obtained by passingthrough various birth from tree to animals. Misuse this birth and go back to aworm in a dust bin says Vivekachudamani. Narayana Batadri a famous sant ofGuruvayuralso wrote that the human body is invaluable gift, if misused one takesbirth as animals. Referance: Srimath Narayiniyam. Bagavan in Geetha also said,"Aneka Jalma Samshidayaha-----" Gyan is that you now accept that you are in aattained position of Paramathuma. Vig (Scientifically- Science of Creation) isapplied to Gyan and one becomes Vig Gyani where by he can never ever commitmistake after becoming so. A Gyani has committed mistake but Vig Gyani does not.Best Example: Adi Sankara was Gyani but his Gyan was incomplete, until BagavanShiva came in disguise as Chandala with 4 dogs in street of Kasi and gave VigGyan. Referance : Manisha Panchakam.

Sri Pratabji wrote that "Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa. .....Karishyetavachanam.. .."I remember my true Self now Lord, I will do what you say".

So every human needs Sri Krishna. the Guru to say these, then he will say, Iremember my true self until then he is in maya.

Sadaks, body is a vital tool to attain Paramathuma. Bhramaji was jealous inheaven when he saw Sri Krishna eating along with his friends in Vridavan, onefeeding each other. He thought what a gift to be a child in Vrindavan along withSri Krishna. My post is useless. Devas and devathas where still more jealous andit would have best to be a calf or cow there rather than in this Bog lok wastingtime.

Sadaks we are blessed to be in human form on earth to the extent to serve SriKrishna in Pooja, in making Mala, in giving HIM fruits, in prostrating at hisfeet, in singing HIS songs, in seeing HIM blissfully. This NO ONE else in 13Loks can do. Referance : Sants of Panderpur, Shenayi, Chota Mela, Sakubai etc.and also written in Gyanapaana of the great sant who flew to Vaikunt by PuspakaViman in 1650 at Malapuram in public view Sant Sri Poothanam.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------False asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti) Said Sri pawan singhal.How many times happiness came and gone?. How many times unhappiness came andgone? It will come and go, so be aware of this truth.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariI accept Gita 7(19) that God is everywhere and in everything but Ican not realise God due to lack of understanding of Gita 18(48) & false asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti).I am trying to make relationship with self but in vain. Other way isonly to meet the devotee of God in physical form as guided in Gita 4(34). I realise swamiji as Giani -Gita 4(34) & take benefit tillassociation with Him. Now I am trying those benefit through group that is insant satsang. I have already requested tosadhakas of this group but in vain.I believe in association of great soul in physical form to getspiritual guidance as I feel with Swamiji at Rishikesh & Kolkatta.Please assist me to meet divine sadhaka & other realised greatsoul/Giani/devotee of God

pawan singhalRam Ram----------------------------NEW POSTING

Shri HariLonging is by the Self is answer of my question as explained byMeera Das. I request to Sh. Meera Das & all sadhaks please explainHow it will happen? I can only pray to God. I am helpless.Ram Rampawan singhal

------------------------

Shree HariRam Ram

Here are simple, clear and very easy words spoken in Hindi bySwamiji -

"Sabse pehle sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hoon. Ek baar saralhriday se dridhta poorvak sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hihoon. Jab aap bhagwaan ke ho to aapko unki smriti ke liye kuch karnahi nahin padega. Aapki har kriya unki pooja hogi."

Meager attempt at translating these simple words -

"First of all, accept that I am Bhagwaan's (I belong to God). Justonce, with a simple, straight forward heart, accept with a firmconviction, that I am only Bhagwaan's (I belong to only God). Whenyou become Bhagwaan's then you will have to do absolutely nothingfor His rememberance. All your activities will become His worship."

Now the Panchamrit (Five Golden Principles) just happens on it'sown -1) I am only God's2) I reside in His kingdom only3) I do His work (good and auspicious) only4) I receive only His prasad (blessing/offering)5) With the prasad received from Him, I serve only His family.

Now what will cause you to forgot Bhagwaan (God)? When you becomesomeone's do you have to remember you belong to them? Do you haveto recite at night I belong to Him, I belong to Him, I belong toHim? Do you have to study to remind yourself, since I belong to myBeloved, I must cook and do other work for Him? Do you have toremind yourself that since I belong to Him, I must take care of Hischildren? and so on?

Become Bhagwaan's (God's) ONLY ONCE !!!! .... says Swamiji... Magicfollows... undoubtedly.

Meera DasRam Ram

---------------------------

In India we are lucky to have amongst us God realised souls who areshowing others the path to salvation. These gurus by shunningworldly comforts and possessions are showing us the way. Once werealise that every thing that we see is maya or illusion and thatthe only truth is the Soul or Atma within each of us whose only goalis to unite with the Parmatma, we can attain salvation. What we aretoday is the result of our past karmas but we can control what wewill become through through the result of our present karmas. So ifwe follow the right path of sewa or helping others, satsang orseeking the company of good people, sadhna or spiritual practicesand dhyan or meditation to connect with our Soul then we will be onthe right path.Hari Shanker Deo--------------------------

Thank You Narinder Bhandariji. I bow to YOU and The Krishnarejoicing your Rejoice.

Respects.

Naga Narayana----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,One says Salvation/Mukthi is always there. Another point said thatyou that Sat Chit and Anandham. Then why one has to suffer? Becausereason

1) One knows not to tell lies, but says- Mind level.2) One knows drinking alcohol is wrong, but drinks -Body level.3) One knows that he has to Sadhana, but does not do, intellectlevel.

These 3 are called Trikarna Sudhi (Clealiness of body mind andintellect) How to achieve it? By guidance - God/Guru. SalvationMukthi is there, but one is not living in it as the qualities arenot there. A person with eye sight is unable to read. But then heneeds spectacles. So the body, mind and intellect is not in form, itis spoilt. He needs Gyan (Spectacle) to see within (Athuman) hisswaroop.He gets from Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh. Until then he does notrealize that he is easily reachable to God/Salvation/Mukthi. That iswhy without Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh he undergoes birth afterbirth. The man who obtained Gyan knows preyty well that his Swaroopis itself divine and because of curtain of Maya he lost valuablelife time.What is wrong in learning from the saint's teachings? In fact theirteaching are there for one to follow. Otherwise those historiescould not have been written. In fact it is easy to follow a saintpath to reach God faster. Saints showed easy methods that could makeone realize.There were so many disciples who followed the instructions of theirGuru and obtained Mukthi. Example: Sant Ekanath. In Kaliyug it isdifficult for man to read scriptures/Sanskrit Etc and then know thepath. In Srimath Bagavath says in Kaliyug Namasankeerthan is enoughto get liberated. Each yuga Dharma is there in Scripts. If someonetells me easy and quick and fast way to reach Badrinath, what iswrong in following his advise. So are Bakthas who guides us. Just bypresenting a flower Mala daily with faith and love to God a saint(Vishnu Chithar) says it will pave path to Vaikunt. It seems easybut if one tries that somewhere or other he fails in timely pooja orloose a day without, or gets stuck to some business or occupied in afamily function Etc. So sincerity, faith, love towards God settingaside even a great need of family produces realization. Sadaks, manyof us go temple say certain day Friday/Saterday. How punctual are we?

Hiranyakasipu and Prahald had argument where is GOD. Prahald said HEis everywhere. His father asked is HE in this pillar. Prahaladsays, "Drusyate" (Yes I see God). His father says "Nah Durshyate" (Ican not see HIM). Why? One has Gyan the other has Agyan. ThoughParamathuma there , one could see and other could not see. Most ofus are still in Agyan. Here Guru was Prahalad who showed GOd andHiranyakasipu obtained Mukthi.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Dear Pawanji, Swamiji has said that such experience of the presenceof God, the rememberance of God, your Beloved One by truesentiments, is only possible by one's own Self. Not by mind/intellect and not by trying to remember. It is only when thislonging is by the Self, that it happens on it's own simply,naturally, and involuntarily (Swabhavik). Swamiji says this is soinnate that it happens even in one's sleep. Rather it happensnaturally all the time. Intense attachment and longing for God -round the clock. It is not about "doing" but simply "being". Itsimply and naturally "IS". Absolutely nothing has to be done toremember our Beloved One.

Just like when our Beloved is going to arrive by train, and we havenot seen him for a long time and we are waiting at the railwaystation for Him, and we feel the anxiety, the longing - When will myBeloved come? When will I see Him? How much longer will it be beforeour eyes meet? This anticipation, this longing is so intense thatone simply cannot wait even a moment. It is consuming ! Just thatone thought.. when will I see my Beloved!

Just like when we are intensely thirsty and are consumed with thethought of a sip of water. Do you have such enthusiasm? Such drive?Such Zeal? Such Intensity? Such Sentiments to meet Your Beloved One,God? - asks Swamiji

Meera DasRam Ram

-----------------------------

Krishna and His song

The Heart,

In longing pain

Cries out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

The Soul rejoices.

 

The Mind

In love's ecstasy

Bows at the feet of the Beloved

The Soul rejoices.

 

And Krishna smiles,

The flute rising to his lips.

Ah! The symphony of the soundless sound,

Where

The seven disappear into the Light of lights

Where

Time disappears into Timelessness

 

And

The Heart,

In longing's pain

Keeps Crying out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

And

Thence comes the Lords song of songs

The Bhagavad geetha, ah !

To assuage the hearts pain

And, the Minds thirst for Knowledge, and Light

aum

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Pawanji ! You have received sterling in sights in response to yourQs, the last one from Mira Dassji. Truth and only truth is there inher last message to you. If you just "accept" with a simple heartwhat she has so eloquently recommended to you, your search gets overeffortlessly, then and there !! Where can Paramatma hide when youstart with goal of BG 7:19? Can ice hidden behind ice ever remainhidden?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Dear Sadhak,Why think to achieve salvation at the "end" ? It cannot be a futuregoal. It is HERE and NOW as stated by sadhak Narinderji.Only effort needed is to be present Here and Now with a deep longingto reach HIM. Now is the eternity zone. All spiritual practices likebreath control, name chanting, mala japa etc leads sadhak to remainin present moment.The whole world is nothing but an illusion, a web of our thinkingmind. When a sadhak practices living in here and now, he is out ofthe grip of his thinking mind and all doing becomes happenings."Sarva Dharma Paritjya, mamekam sharanam vrij"Gitaji. when sadhaksurrender to Krishna, he accept every moment As IT IS and remainssubmerged in the ocean of Love, Bliss and Peace.with Love,a sadhikaSadhna Karigar

Shri HariI am asking question due to my nature-Gita 5(14) & Gita 2(7) butbefore Gita 18(73) & because I know the truth-everything belongs toBhagwan, the essence, I say this but I do not believe the truth, theessence as i say in prayer written by Swami Shri RamsukhdasjiMaharaj.Meera Das & Pratap Bhatt has explained after Gita 18(73)Ram Ram------------------------------

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Swamiji incessantly, relentlessly, persistently spokeabout "Vasudeva Sarvam"(All is God) in the final years in His mortal body. He repeated thismany times- PLEASE READ CAREFUL AND ACCEPT IMMEDIATELY! If there is noquestions ordoubts, then PLEASE ACCEPT RIGHT NOW!

Swamiji said -Whatever is perceived with mind, speech, sight and other senses isonly God.Accept this immediately. The active, inactive, conscious, matter,[born of egg,sweat and sprouting from earth] - all are God and nothing else. Goodor bad,wicked or virtuous, all are God. There is nothing else besides God.He whowishes to attain God should accept this fact. As Shri JaydayaljiGoyandka usedto say that "Whatever is seen is God's divine form and whatever isexperiencedand activities undertaken is His divine play/pastime (lila).

If you are very serious about your question, if you believe in Gita4:11 (thathowever a devotee worships Me, so do I approach them) and have anardent andintense longing to find the answer to this question, it does notmatter if it isat the end of life or not, SIMPLY FROM NOW ONWARDS - EVERYTHING YOUSEE ISBHAGWAAN'S SWAROOP (God's Divine Form) AND EVERYTHING YOUEXPERIENCE/DO IS HISLILA (Divine Play/Pastime).

Now if a devotee worship Bhagwaan in this manner, where canBhagwaanji HIDE?Tell me one place he will not be? Tell me how at the end of thislife, end ofthis human body, He will not be there as Yamdoot (God of Death)?Tell me whereyou will need to go searching for this rare Devotee of God by true & heartfeltsentiments? If your sentiments are true and heartfelt, can you notaccept whatGita says and what Swamiji says that Bhagwaan (Vasudeva) iseverywhere, ineverything, in all that you see, think, feel, do, experience andmore, becausethere is only "Vasudeva" and this is clearly stated in the Gita 7:19and throughout the Gita in Chapter 11 and more!

Do you have any further questions or doubts? Please bring them out!

Meera DasRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sri Pawan kumar

I remember the words of a man who is an ardent devotee of SriRamana. He used to say 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVENIF YOU DO NOT THINK OF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE.

Please contemplate on that

vrsarma podury

PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delayingsalvation" or he may not even need to ask. God would know all trueBhaktas' heartfelt desires for merging in Him.What I mean is the when you are in love with God, unconditionally,you wouldn't want to make loving Him as a means to the end(salvation). Such love or remembering God constantly is in itselfthe means and end, without duality even though on-lookers may feelBhagwaan and Bhakta as separate.I consider salvation as Moksha or liberation from a false senseof "me", non existent ego and establishment in Atman our true Self.Thus salvation is what we already are. If you remember Swamiji saysParamatma is already attained, how can you attain that whihc isattained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what we are, notwe will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.In attaining anything there is duality of someone who attains andsomething to be attained, not the case here in this Bhakti (lovingdevotion).Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa......Karishye tavachanam...."I remember my true Self now Lord, will do what you say".One lives free of "me" as Sat-Chit-Ananda only.In salavation no individual entity survives, it is livingimpersonally, as Intelligence, Love, Peace, Steadfastness! Karmasare done when needed without doer!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,I am remember the boon of Kunti in Mahabharat.She requested LordKrishna to keep them in poverty so that she can remember almightyGod.Still however we should keep that spirit and in spite of alltroubles and our condition we should never avoid offering prayers atleast or twice.We should learn as to hoe to prayer.Please refer tomy book on 'Prayers of all Religions of the world. This is what IfeelTruly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

--------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Sree Pratabji, Kindly bear with me for my mistake. Your goodnesssaid-- say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he havetime to ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living inSalvation?. Baktha is in constant thought of GOD that is why he hasfull time to askGOD why that HE is delaying salvation. Worldly man partly with Godhas time to ask GOD for his desires to be fullfilled one after theother until death. Such man Geetha has said Kamiyartha Baktha, whomGOD gives him long rope fulfilling his desires one after other, GODhoping he will become Jignasu. That hope of GOD is benovolence. Onceagain pardon me if I am wrong and enlighten me.

Salvation is that I thought is attained stage, not living insalvation. Salvation is to be attained and not living in it. Meanstrying for salvation. Once salvation is attained there is nodesires. You are very right Sir.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------

God is available only when we become His and remember His Gloriesand His name many times continuously, then and then we will feel Hispresence within your hearts. He will be seen but his presence willbe felt. This is how Mirabai, Narsinh Mehta and Chaitainya MahaPrabhu realized God.This is what I feel everyday while offering prayers

Truly yoursS S Bhatt

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadak,You are searching GOD outside you . Outside you HE exists, but inVeerat Roop. Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youRproblem ends.B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------Thanks.Believe and love God because Gita 5(29) verdict as explainedby Raja Gurdasani & Kamlesh KumarPawan SinghalRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sadhaks ,The question , in some way, is related to a desire to walk the Pathof a true sadhka . Some thoughts that blossomed from within on twodifferent points of time , are given below. Both are related .

In fewest words, The Path of a sadhak , could perhaps, be stated asfollows :

1.We are what we are , at this point of Time. It could never havebeen ( and , can never be )otherwise .

2.When the Self is Known, all is Known. It is not that all answersare available ( The field of Knowledge is so vast); itis ...that..... all Questions drop....... whatever needs to be knownat a particular point of Time ( always Herenow) is made available toThe Knower of the Self by Existence .

3. Living now is no more ' living in the Time'( Past and Future). Itis always in your own ' presence' ( awareness) in the Here now.Spontaneous living sans Fear , Pain, and delusion.

4.The sense of Doership disappears .

5.Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.

6.Words become Fewer, and they flower from your Silence (Peacefulness ! ) And, They are purposeful. They have Power ( power-----not as the world understands, but the power of God and Love......to transform the seeker ).

7. The Whole Process ( walking the Path ) is for Oneself. If, wewere already Enlightened .............. we shall pass the Test ( weshall Know) by the joy of conduct ...... ( The Conduct is theTest ).Generally, it is , and will be, in accordance with the basicprinciples shown ( given ) by the Knowers of Truth. We shall remainBlissful, and Peaceful .

8. The True Seeker yearns for the Truth, his/ her own Being , withthe intensity of HERENOW. THe Desire is to end all words . Theshortest Way.No prolonging. Minimum Discussion. No argument. No imposition ofones own Concepts. Acceptance of everyone's Being ( SEE 1 Above ),respecting others' Being, respecting his/ her own being .

9. and finally.......( although, one could go on....... ) The way toLight is not through ' acquisition of new knowledge, but yourwillingness to drop your Knowledge ( concepts/ conditionings).Anything that is born, has to die. True Love, True knowledge, Truthof Being, is Unborn, Unchanging and , therefore, Undying. It isalready present in YOU, You are already That .

ah ! what more to say and how ? ( already too many words !! )

-------------For Spiritual Seekers longing for the divine mystical union withthat great Void , we call Existence, Nature, or God :

1. The longing for God is Existence Gift to the Seekers on thesacred Path of love and Light.

2. This longing one day, culminates in Grace, and the personalexperience ( knowing) of the Un-knowable

3. The paradox of Action ( effort) and Grace gets resolved in thatexperience.

4. That resolution of the paradox is the state of being, where˜doing is˜ doing nevermore where all becomes a happenning Graceand yet, there is no running away from doing what needs being done.there is NO running away, because you are not into doing any morerunning away cannot happen. all happens as it happens. ExistencesPlay , with narinder-ness in total acceptance of it a part ofExistential Play and Doing

5.TILL THAT HAPPENS. Doing, much Doing is the Way.. and it is theKnowers of Truth that guide us into attitudes and conduct to strivefor Bhagvada geetha gives to the seeker, the threefold practise of ˜Karma-yoga action , surrendering the fruit to the Lord),Bhakti (devotion) and Gyana ( Knowledge of the True ) . All the scripturesspeak nothing else they speak and shriek, in love of the seekingheart,what is the Way , of the Karma and Dharma

6.The final test of ˜having arrived is your conduct and who is tojudge the conduct ? you, yourself , of course ! it is the movementof the self , for the self; and it is the self , which chooses todie to the self , to realise the Self.

the last thought that comes to the mind is . that the self, when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.

Narinder bhandari

AUM----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is just to answer Sathyanarayanji's observations on my previouspost!I say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have time toask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in Salvation?

I say this to emphasize "remembering God and not expectinganything", just unconditional love for God goes a long way.No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead to anhilationof "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger, jealousy, etc) haveno footing. "me" is ignorance who thrives on shadripus(6 enemies)!Such Bhaktas don't say they are in salvation but we can ceratinlysay they are, to pay our respect!Even if Bhaktas like Kabirji and Prahladji asked something from God,it still is alright to just keep rememebring God without expecting,isn't it? Gita teaches us too. Each of Bhaktas may have differentapproaches to teach us to be true Bhaktas. We have to be inspired bysuch Bhaktas, not necessarily copy them. They are all unique intheir own way is the proof of different expressions of the sametruth.Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Q: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for AttainingSalvation?

Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! There are nosentiments - rather no emotions of any sort - there either.Remembering The God is another myth.

Then it remains a puzzle, why such a natural reality is not felt?!Why can't we even remember That when it is claimed to be ever-present?! What is the problem??!! The reason is the imbibed cataractin terms of our wrong notions (ignorance) and corrupt attitude(inertia). Just like the vison becomes clear on the removal of itshinderance, our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed. Sadhana is the process of removal of theignorance and inertia that cloud our existence, perception andexperience limiting us to imagine everything within these domains.Our dependence on these mechanisms of existence makes us insist fortheir approval for everything - even The God. The dependence is sostrong and opaque that we can't even dream of any alternative.Hence the insistence, if there is any reality, it should be revealedhere!

Unfortunately, finite cannot withold the infinite! The Upanishadsmake it very clear:

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

The Absolute cannot be approached by any relative media such aslistening, thinking, discussion, talking, etc. irrespective of theself-proclaimed excellence in the same. All perceived objects aswell as ideas remain finite within the limited perception itself.Therefore, The Truth remains oblivious to the cognition as far asthere is insistence for seeing everything through the lens ofcognition only. As natural to a lense, it can capture only what itsees and can transmit only what it can. In fact, what is transmittedmay not even resemble the original often thanks to its spatialboundaries, color filtering and refractional distortions. The imagesensed within and the object attempted to be sensed remain alien toeach other thanks to the opaqueness in the very cognitive system.Therefore, any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional reality isfutile in the first place.

But, the ever-present reality should be theoretically the easiest tobe attained … in fact it is already there even without any effort ofseeking! Then what is the difficulty? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.The ever-attained is ever-ready for a seeker if he/she ever couldjust escape the clutches of self-woven fish-net of desires and fearscocooned within opaque shell of ignorance and inertia. If one couldjust drop the dependence on these, THAT is naturally THERE for everyone!

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanumswaam ||

Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT which isThe You before your birth, at your birth, through your life, at yourdeath, and after your death. If you let yourself be … THAT revealsitself within and around.

Ramana Maharshi puts his brilliant depth of appreciation beautifully:

Ulladalad ull unarv ullado?Ulla porul ullal ara ullatte ulladaal.Ullam enum ulla porul ullal evan?Ullatte ullabadi ullade ullal unar ||

I beg Maharshi's pardon as I am tempted to give its Kannadaequivalent in my limited understanding, in case any could benefitfrom,

Iralaarada ola-iruvu iruvudentu?Ola-arivu olage nintu hora baaradu.Horabaarada ola-iruvanu porevudentu?Ola-iruvanu aritu iruva arive nija.

Grossly, it means,

How can there be a sense of existence without something beingwithin?The being within remains "as is" NOT seeking anything.How to attain the one within that seeks nothing? and, who can everattain That?Understand that you can attain the one within by just being withinseeking nothing.

Swami Ramsukhdasji lays out a clear strategy to develop the strengthwithin to turn our focus from our conceived world to The Reality inhis revelation on "Bhagavattattva" (Sadhan Sudha Sindhu):

1. Purify the Bahih Karana (extrinsic awareness) to develop AntahKarana (intrinsic awareness).2. Filter the Antah Karana to extract Viveka Drishti (innateawareness).3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to remain in The Tattva … The Absolute(That is often called Tattva Drishti or Salvation etc.)

I have never seen such out-spoken and clear-cut strategy in thisregard elsewhere so far. I recommend everyone to study The Nectar hegenerously pours out for everyone of us with care. FYI, it is beingcurrently circulated.

Respects.

Naga Narayana------------------------------Hari Om

Pawanji ! You "become" of Paramatma ! Just As: Without any practicea wife "becomes" of her husband. Accept firmly once with a simpleheart: I am of the God, only God is mine.

Once you do that Bhajan has started unceasingly in you. The "karta"(doer/thinker/ego) has become of God, now all the karmas have becomeGodly- naturally. The real Bhajan/remembering/thinking about God isthat which "happens" effortlessly and which is not "done" .

Look at the status today. We "have to" think/remember about God,while thinking/remembering about the world "happens automatically".

Why? Because at "subtle ego level" we continue to be of world. Hencethoughts about the world are automatic. While remaining of the worldonly , we want to remember/think about God- hence we experienceproblems in concentrating.

CHANGE YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" ! Thereuponbhajan will be automatic and remembering about the world will "haveto be done"!

As simple as that !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Thanks to all. I want to know sixteen powers which given by God sothat we can do many good things in life and we will be happy asposting by Shri Shankerprasad S. Bhatt.I agree God is doing most vital actions of our life withoutinterruption & without any noise also without showing any ehsan.I have to renounce desire-Gita 2(47), I concluded from the postingof all sadhakRam Ram

pawan singhal--------------------------------Shree HariRam RamPawanji, kindly post "sixteen powers by God" as separate question.From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakIn my view & experience I suggest please realise god work in everylittle bit of action happening in & around U.Like heart beat. Think who is doing it?Like breathing.Like digesting whatever u eat & nourishment of ur body.Can U do all this?Then it is proved that god is doing most vital actions of our lifewithout interruption and without any noise. also without showing anyehsan.Doesnt it make u believe & love god?If yes love moreif no ask urself why why u are so ehsan faramosh.Sorry if I hurt U.I didnt mean it.thanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation? THUS said Sri Pratab.Bakthas at various levels asked Bagavan to help in distress andasked HIM to liberate him from this world. There are numerable songswere Bakthas were asking with GOD, to liberate one from the 6enemies (^ bad Gunas -Kama, Krodh etc). Even Prahalad who was withSri Vishnu all the time, sang so. Kabir did so. Though they werehighly elevated souls why they sang so? Because they never left anatom of thought any part of their life that they are already insalvation. This thought they knew is Ego in disguise which is nottracable.But if one understood he is already in salvation, he becomes dumb.Behaves like Pagal Baba, never cares to even dress, never cares forfood. Those great men we recognised them as "Chitta Braman", (metalyhandicap). We are accustomed in seeing world, so to our eyes theywill be Pagal. But after their disappearence we build temples.

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Pawan Kumar ji,I am inspired by God to write to you on the subject.Love is God.God is Love.Love allServe all.See God in every creation of God. God in you is the God in everyone.Serve every creation of God is the purpose of every human who isgiven this blessed Birth.Think GoodSee GoodHear GoodDo Good.

Every moment / breath of life in you is the blessing of God , sothank God for giving you an opportunity to serve HIM by serving HIScreation.

By doing this you will realize the and attain Salvation. Choice iswith you but to do this you always need the blessings of thatSupreme. and HE who will inspire you and guide you the path ofsalvation. Do your Good Karma and leave the fruit of that unto HIMto decide.

It is like you wish to win a lottery but never bought the ticket.

One need to have a strong determination and go step by step anddrop by drop you can fill the ocean.

I apologize, if I hurt your feelings in any wayWith Warmest Regards and Ever Flowing Eternal LoveKAMLESH KUMARHELP EVER HURT NEVERLOVE ALL SERVE ALLHAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

Kamlesh Kumar------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Q: How can I get salvation at least at the end?Answer( to me at least): By not expecting salvation! When "I" whoexpect salvation or whatever, and salvation itself are seen to beone and the same, salvation has happened.In otherwords, I and desired object are understood to be the same,duality of subject object ceases and all struggles to desireanything vanishes, leaving God only, experienced as Peace, Love,Beauty, Harmony, Joy!Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?It is only by constantly desiring one pushes away the object ofdesire!when expectations or desires including that of Moksha end, "I" alsoend at the same time, not later!See the truth of this statement, and start living, stop expecting!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Dear Sadak,pawan kumar singha. Very simple. If your basic duties are over andif you want to quit worldly life, then it is surely possible.Bagavan has very clearly said in Geetha, "Aninya Chitayayome", meansconstant thought on ME, that soul I (Bagavan) takes over. Yourresponsibility in search of HIM ceases, but on the other hand HISresponsibility takes over.This also Bagavan has said in Geetha, that by HIS sankalp HE willliberate HIS baktha in same birth.Totally dedicate everything to Bagavan by Pooja, Bhajan, makinggarlands for Bhagavan, growing fruits for Bhagwaan, listeningscriptures/puranas Etc, learning vedic way of life in food, sleepand practice, washing cloths for Bhagavan, cleaning temple, lightinglamps, looking at HIM with love and affection, saying Japa walkingaround HIM (Idol), just pronouncing Govinda, Madhava, Sri KrishanayaVasudevaya Mukundhaya Namo Namo as one walks around garden. In allmoments to dedicate everything to Bagavan, B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------Dear Sadhak,

Every one should have knowledge of how he or she got this form ofhuman being after many turns of birth and death in 8.4 milliondifferent forms of births. If we know we will always remember Himbecause we are obligated to Him

Secondly if we know that after giving human birth God gave us somesixteen divine powers so that we can do many good things in life andwe will be happy.Shankerprasad S Bhatt

----------------------------We can do sewa, satsang, sadhna and meditation which spiritualpractices will definitely lead us in the right direction.Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------------------SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS- Love is God. God is Love. Love all. Serve all.See God in All. God in you is the God in All.Serve All.Think Good. See Good. Hear Good. Do Good. Leave the Fruit to Him.Every breath is blessing of God, so thank God for his blessing toserve His creation! Thus, realize and attain Salvation. Choice isyours, but by His blessings, inspiration, guidance you will attain.- "Aninya Chitayayome", means constant thought on ME, that soul I(Bagavan) takes over. By HIS sankalp HE will liberate HIS baktha insame birth. In all moments to dedicate everything to Bhagavan.- Can get salvation, by not expecting salvation'- by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of desire!- all struggles to desire anything vanishes, leaving God only,experienced as Peace, Love, Beauty, Harmony, Joy!- Bhakta constantly remembers God, loosing himself, thus living inSalvation. Does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?- god is doing most vital actions of our life without interruptionand without any noise. also without showing any ehsan.- after human birth in 8.4 million different life forms... we areeternally obligated to Bhagwaan- Our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed.- Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! finite cannotwithold the infinite! Any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptionalreality is futile in the first place. what is the difficulty inrealizing that which is ever-present? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT.Remain "as is" NOT seeking anything. Simply be!Approach: 1) Purify the extrinsic awareness; Filter the intrinsicawareness to extract Viveka Drishti 3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti toremain in The Tattva … The Absolute- Become of "Paramatma", then bhajan starts unceasingly, the 'karta'has become of God. Our problem is that at "subtle ego level" wecontinue to be of world, hence thoughts of world are automatic.Change YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" !- remembering God and not expecting anything, just unconditionallove for God. No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) leadto anhilation of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger,jealousy, etc) have no footing.- Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR problem ends.- all Questions drop - whatever needs to be known is known.- living in the present, Now and here.- sense of Doership disappears- Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.- Words become Fewer- True Seeker yearns for the Truth, HERENOW. No prolonging. MinimumDiscussion. No argument. No imposition. Acceptance of everyone'sBeing ( SEE 1 Above ),- and finally... drop all Knowledge- longing for God is Existence Gift- for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to die to theself , torealise the Self. when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.- 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINKOF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE

-------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -

 

[Guest guest]

I am in search of devotee of God by true & heartfelt sentiments which is rarebut is somewhere -Gita 7(19).

God is easily attainable-Gita 8(14) by thinking/remembering-Gita 4(11). Mymessage is how can I think of God & remember God by true sentiments so that ican get salvation at the end at least as per Gita 8(5).

pawan kumar singhalRam Ram-------------------------------NEW POSTING

 

 

 

 

 

Shree Hari

 

|| Ram Ram ||

 

Dear all

While many good reflections and thoughts have been constantly flowing from many evolved souls on this wonderful forum relating to many topics but at times some responses tend to be not quite to the point.

 

I very much appreciate Mr. Suresh Sharma's suggestion that questions as well as the responses to the questions should be precise, to the point and always keeping in mind - "What specifically is being asked"? The Gita-talk Moderators have requested of us to follow the Guide-lines, to articulate our responses always keeping Gitaji in the center of our thoughts, referring to a Gitaji Verse(s) related to the topic and not to build our responses so much on our personal opinions.

 

On the subject question, Mr. Vyasji, Meeraji and others have already commented very eloquently. There are many verses in Gitaji, related to this topic, for example -

"Whatever being there is glorious, prosperous or powerful, know that to have sprung from a spark of My splendor (Gitaji:10-41).

 

Wherever the mind goes, think God is there because there is no place where He is not, so where is the place for God to hide? (Ref: Gitaji: 6-30; 7-7; 7 /12-16; 7-19; 9/16-19)

 

Also in Ramcharitmanas - In Ayodhya Kandha, Lord Rama goes to Rishi Balmiki's Ashrama (126-1), Lord Rama asks:

"Aba jaha rahura ayasu hoi, muni udabegu na pavai koi"

Now, I intend to go whereever you command me to go and where no sages may feel disturbed.

 

Risht replies (Doha 127):

puchehu mohi ki rahau kaha main puchata sakucau |

jaha na hohu taha dehu kahi tumhahi dekhavau thau ||

 

"You ask me: Where should I take up my residence?" But I ask You with diffidence: tell me in the first the place where You are not; then alone I can show You a suitable place."

 

Then Rishi describes in detail - in whose heart God resides!.

 

|| Ram Ram ||

Humble pranam,Madan Kaura

 

OM

 

ah, Suresh Sharma Jee,

 

The Bhagvada Geetha .................. is The Song Celestial, is nought but Poetry ...................... Krishna's song of Love.

 

All the Upanishads are nothing but Poetry........... poems in blank verse .............

 

The Guru Grantha Sahib, the holy book of the Sikhs is Poetry. 1436 pages of sacred Poetry ...........Nanak sang and sang all his life , accompanied by two minstrels, Bala and Mardana ............... in the language that the masses understood at that time ........... and his hymns touched the hearts of millions........ and they were inspired to become his Sikhs. Sikh only means Sishya, one, who is willing to learn ....................

 

Poetry flows out of the silence of Samadhi, true Silence ........... Silence that is not a word, that just IS.

 

The highest thoughts , which have touched the hearts of millions have been nothing but Poetry.

 

All the Bhaktas have sung songs in Mystic ecstasy . Kabir, Ravidas, Farid, Namdev, Tukadev, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu,Surdas, Meera , The Sufi saints ................

 

Life is nothing but Poetry. To understand this Poem of Life , all humanity lives as it lives, each according to his/ her Swabhava, Swadharma, and inner being ...............

And, Then Saints and Sages sing songs showing us the Way ........................ but , due to the movement of Time and Space, necessarily very very few are touched by the songs.And then, God appears as the Guru to explain to all, in words and similies as each would understand ...................

One thing narinder's mind cannot fathom. So much knowledge , Total Knowledge, is available to humanity today , and the Consciousness is so highly evolved , it is an enlightened age....... then, why is it that so few, come to realise the self. Could it be that the evolved and intelligent Mind is itself the eclipsing factor ????

 

Bhagvada Geetha shows us the way. Revered Swami Ramsukhdas jees words could not have been more full of Love and Light . Of the thousands , who come in contact with him,and his enlightened words, one perchance, will become The Swami................. and it would be him/ her, who decides to weigh himself/ herself in the Swami's words of Wisdom instead of judging the whole humanity around him/ her but forgetting himself/ herself !!!

 

And when the self is known ...... all is known ................... no more Doing, no more Knowing ............. the Knower of Truth does not Know ! Only Krishna Knows, Only Krishna is the doer. BUT, Krishna is he/ she now. Krishna Himself shines as knowledge, as Love, as understanding, and also the doer in him/ her.

 

Thank you for your thoughts Suresh jee,

 

Love and Blessings from one, who truly knows very little ................. but is constantly touched by the great Silence ,

 

AUM

 

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------

 

 

as narinder read the beauteous messages from the sadhakas,

 

messages flowing from their loving hearts

 

narinder's eyes shut by themselves, and the Mind moved in prayer to Kanha's feet ................

 

only to hear the Beloved say ............

 

" The Moment is Now, narinder

 

the Moment has come

 

die, narinder, die ................

 

die to the Mind ...........

 

Meditate, narinder meditate,

 

Meditation is the death you seek

 

Meditation is the eternal Now

 

in which , birth is no more birth, nor death, death any more

 

Meditation is One-ness, Silence , Love

 

and Love is Me, Me, ME "

 

AUM

 

narinder Bhandari

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree HariAs regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Very clear reply of Vyas N B on the line of Swamiji is acceptable to me. I will try to accept affinity with God (Gita 15/7).I feel the grace of God(Gita 5/29) on 07.03.2009Ram Rampawan singhal --------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Please bear with me. As Sri Pratabji said that several births discouraging, it is true. Hope to attain realization may reduce or thought futile. But this is not my statement of attaining GOD in several births, but it is Sri Krishna` s in Bagavath Geetha. But in same Bagavath Geetha Sri Krishna also tells that if HE wishes HE can uplift one in the same birth. Contradictory statement of Bagavan. Here sadaks can completely rely upon the second statement of Bagavan and reach HIM straight away. Bagavan has said two methodsof reaching HIM. One right now. Another over several births. Sri Pratabji and Sri Vyasji will explain much better than me to Sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------Shree Hari Ram Ram Our inner sentiments (Bhaav) drive everything! Also our anubhava (experience/knowledge) tell us everything - the Truth (if we pay attention to it). We are experiencing abhaav (asat, perishability, changing, unreal) all the time, but choose to ignore our anubhava... If we give importance to our experience at this VERY MOMENT, liberation it shall be. Unfortunately, every thing we do is AGAINST our ANUBHAVA. We simply DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT our Anubhava. Gita clearly states - SELF cannot derive pleasure from ASAT (perishable)... yet entire life is dedicated to just doing that alone. (Gita 13:31).

Gita and Swamiji have made this PERFECTLY CLEAR - Till there is desire there is interest in the world. Once the desire goes, the interest goes. Once the interest goes - you become selfless. When you become selfless, your sorrows go, and once your sorrows go - you attain bliss (salvation, realization, benediction, moksha, Truth, God, Beloved, SatChitAnand). Whatever you may call this state. Therefore LEAVE THE DESIRE FOR ASAT. Simply DONOT GO AGAINST YOUR ANUBHAV NO MATTER WHAT, ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH. Where is the DOUBT now?

The recipe is clearly laid out. Simply FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS !!!!

But if you still do not want to follow the directions, continuing to add poison to the ingredients, then simply CALL OUT TO GOD FOR HELP!!! HEY NAATH ! HEY MERE NAATH ! HELP ME !

 

Only we humans have the ability to pay attention and respect our ANUBHAV(experience/knowledge). That is all there is to it!

Meera Das

Ram Ram

====================================

PRIOR POSTING

Time is just a thought which references a point in the past, and thought arise in ............

How True , Partap jee, how true ! what to do ....... ah.................... what should poor nari do..............? The natkhat is the Vasudeva Sarvam and Time is only a thought ................ no reality ! how impotent narinder becomes , while Krishna plays and plays ............ ah ! Beloved Krishna

In the game of twoness

You smile as One-ness.

And

In the bliss of one-ness

You dance as two-ness!

 

And, it seems to poor narinder

That

Only Loving is real; You and I false

You are false, Govinda, You are false

You do not exist, nor I

Only Love exists

But even so,

and narinder cannot help loving YOU !

When I say ‘I love You Govinda’, why do you smile?

Love is real

Love alone is real

And

In its mad dance of loving

It chooses to become for one moment

You , The Lord of Lords

And I, Your eternal plaything, your slave, your beloved

Pining and yearning for You

Ecstatically seeking oblivion

In Your look

In Your smile

In your touch.

 

Ah, Krishna ! You are NOT fair !

AUM

narinder

------------------------------

Ah, my friends, once narinder ventured to ask Krishna what Love is, and how to love God, who is Love !

"O Beloved,….. Love, the mystery, the mystery that you are Beloved, how can it ever be `known'! How can anyone ever know and understand it! Love is Un–knowable! You, my Beloved, are un-knowable. Only you know yourself by yourself… only you reveal to your own Self , the mystery of Love and Loving !"

And........... Thus Spake Krishna

"O narinder…. You can not know Love, but you can be Love, you can only Be. Be that Love. Be love. And, narinder, when you are Love, you `know' Love. You know what Love IS.

Ah ! Narinder, who wish to capture Love in words, let us share a moment … let us become Love, This Moment Now. The love, which is the opposite of `hate' is not what Love is . The love, which embraces hate, which co-exists along with `hate', is Being, is Love .

You can not know love ….. you cannot `do' love…. But you can feel Love. You can be Love. Love is not a `doing'.Love is a happening.Love is not a ' thought'...... thinking. Love is a feeling.

Love is your Being, your whole-ness, your crying need not to withhold anything from anyone, nor inflict anything on anyone.

A million words may be written about love. But if you have not felt it, you have not known it as your own Being-ness---------------you know nothing about Love! And, …. if you have felt it … felt it as your blood, bone and marrow, as your breath and consciousness, as your whole Being, as that, without which, you feel ` not alive'…. Then, narinder, you need no words, no affirmation, no proof, no knowledge…. You need no discussion, no analysis. Love is sufficient unto Love .

Ah ! Narinder…. You are love infinite. Infinite and choiceless; and you are the creator , sustainer and destroyer.Blessed by Love,you create in love. In Love, you sustain, and destroy too… in Love. All your doing, all your knowing , which in truth is of the nature of ` not –doing'… and `not – knowing, is nothing but Love. O nari, what indeed can be said of love! Only Love can know what love is! …….Not I …. not I … not I…. Love is `not I ' And yet, O narinder, Love and I, I and Love, are not –two. I indeed am Love!"

"Thank You, Beloved , thank you for leading Nari to Yourself for understanding of Love," This, now Narinder prays, "O Beloved….. lead me, O Lord, to the presence of those, who have known Love … who are love… who are Krishna … who you are ! Because, Govinda, my heart and soul are scorched by the heat of Love! And the fire can only be extinguished by the ambrosial showers of love from your Bhaktas, who have known Love, who are Love… who you yourself are! "

Jai Krishna, Jai Jai ! AUM

narinder

===================================================PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Let me reflect upon Vasudev Sathyanarainji's messages as discussed upon by various sadhaks, including by Shri Pratapji. Beautiful brain storming arguments. There are 2 things in substance. One- Bahunaa Janamnaamante (BG 7:19) and another who binds whom? Maya to Purusha or vice versa.

Vasudev Sathyanarainji is absolutely right. Pratapji is also not wrong. Yes after many many births ! After a long long series of lying into various wombs of different species of mothers- one gets ultimately the human life. We all have got it. For all of us this can be the LAST life- God is attained for all of us. We simply have to believe this fact. That is all.The moment you get human life- Paramatma is attained. (Prarabdha pahale racha, peechhe racha shareer- first our object has been finalised, later we got human body) You only have to realise that! Matter ends. In human life only, you can presume He is attained and realise that. (this can be, actually, the 'anta' -last- of all life forms, because the chain started from here only- from a human birth in the past).. Here only you can say - He is attained. NO WHERE ELSE ! There is no question of "when" ! Now !! In this very human birth and always/ever - so long we remain human ! How TIME comes in between ? What poor time has got to do with it? TIME has already turned in our favour as we got human birth.

As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Who else can leave it? Who else accepted it? Maya means- that which does not exist. Self means- that which exists. When Self exists and Maya does not exist, the deliberation has to begin and end with Self only. The acceptance was by us. The renunciation has to be by us. What poor non existent Maya has got anything to do with bondage? Maya has no capacity to bind us. It does not exist. We keep talking/thinking/ relying upon it through mind/time/ignorance type of webs. Where is Maya to bind us? Something must exist at first place to bind us !! Leave shelter of mind- you are free ! Where is bondage thereafter?

Hope the above answers the questions raised and the essence of delibreations. What can be the role of mind or time there?

I have not read full series of arguments (read today only, to the extent trail is there on my BB - full trail is not there). May be I missed something from beginning. Let me know if I have. I will clarify/amend.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------

Loving Divine,Pranams.In recent post, I started a story - tree is holding me, & left to be told some other time; I think this is a perfect place :-)A guru had 2 disciples - younge (Y) & older (O). Guru: I am going to die soon so tell me what will you do after I am gone. O: I'd continue my search for God following your teachings while remaining brahmachari (celibate). Y: I'd continue my search for God remaining in family as my parents would like. Guru blessed both but called O & requested to keep an eye on Y & died. Few years later O visited Y & was happy to see him doing sadhana while remaining married. Few years passed, O visited Y again, but the picture is different. Y is in the midst of maya with his wife and kids and has almost forgotten God. O reminded him of God & promise given to guru. Y promised to start his sadhana & next time when O comes, to join him in sanyas as his kids would have been settled. Few years later O came back to take Y for sanyas. Y said he can't leave now as his son's wife had delivered a baby (B) & no one takes better care of B then he. Let it grow a little, when B goes to school he will join O. Y understood the problem. Next day early morning Y heard someone is shouting for help. O ran outside, saw that O has hugged a tree tightly & shouting for help claiming that this tree is not letting him go. O claimed over n over that this tree is holding him so tight that despite of his trying he can't free himself! Y understood the message & left immediately with O for to complete his sadhana for God realization! We claim all the time that maya is holding us back but it is not true, we are holding on to maya and that's where the problem is. Nothing is wrong w/maya. Maya is as eternal as God himself but trying to catch hold of shadow is ignorance. As Swamiji has said - holding on requires efforts, letting go doesn't... No need to leave the house, no need to go anywhere, God is present everywhere so do your duty but in God conciousness w/o attachment, that's all. It is that simple. Baba always says - remain compassionately detached. Even though you leave your family & go to jungle, maya will follow you as you are carrying it in your head. humble regards,always at Thy Holy FeetManjula Patel----Dear Sadaks,Thus answered Sri Vyasji, ""Na me bhaktah pransyati? There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can deviate from HIS oath but not from the oath of HIS Bhakta"". I liked to hear from Vyasji though I knew it. Now who is Baktha? Defenition of Baktha?Slowly developing love (Desire for reading divine books, listening recorded divine lectures, meeting and spending time with Saadhus, sitting alone and craving for GOD) is one who is Baktha. Bagavan says, Kamiyartha Baktha, Prema Baktha, Niskama Prema Baktha. Only in Bakthi Marg, Bagavan takes over HIS Bakthas from start (Person who is desiring for GD0). In Sanyasa Marg or in Yog Marg Bagavan remains wittness, because in these 2 Margs Sanyasi or Yogi does have somewhere in a corner of his mind (Without his awareness) that he is Kartha for Sanyas or Yog. Bagavan said in Geetha that Sanyasi or Yogi fails several times before reaching HIM. Example: Sanakathis (Sri Bhramaji Manasa Puthras) fell pray to anger at doors of Vaikunt in cursing Jaya and Vijaya. But in case of Baktha behaving with Krodh/Kama/Loba etc HE takes care to rectify and make him realize. So many cases are there. Jai Sri krishnaB.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!One more point I want to share on Sathyanarayanji's post on Geeta saying "thatman does attain me in one of several births", so God is already attained butwhen is the question(time factor).If we look closely, that which we really are, Atman-Self-Consciousness nevertakes birth nor dies. Our ignorance as desires, latent tendencies-vaasanasacquired while in physical body forms subtle body(sanskaras) and it merges withcosmic subtle body or mass karmas of all beings upon death. It gets recycledthrough another body and ignorance continues its journey further until itrealizes its true nature in some human birth. So that which we truly are nevertakes re-birth. Thus by the time one realizes many births may have gone, butonly in ignorance, like in a dream! This is what I think Krishnaji may havemeant.Upon realizing Atman how does it matter how many births have gone? Again we saythis to emphasize the immediacy of the Realization. From the point of view ofmind, time is there, but time has not played any part in realization.How can it, it is not real. It is a simplistic and pragmatic assumptions. Evenan hour by clock time is experienced differently by different people, some findit too long when perceived boring, some find it too quick when perceivedinteresting! Time which is of Maya is flowing, and can never be experienced bymind. Thus what we call NOW is not mind's experience, it is mind's concept ofzero duration! Like in a dream we can experience whole life in few minutes, butupon waking up, there was no reality! So by saying it takes several births torealize we don't convey any value to those on the path of inquiry, on thecontrary it discourages.Besides, several births are only almost zero second to God, whose Grace bestowsRealization to those who are in fit to receive in His judgment!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt------------------------Dear sadaks,Sri Vyasji has given nice explanation to my query BG 9:31- Na me bhaktahpransyati? Thank you.B.Sathyanarayan------------------------Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, please accept my pranaam, you need not beg pardon! we areonly exchanging our understanding! Let us be in the spirit of oneness as yousaid and freely exchange!Let me do the best I can to clarify. "Does Maya bind us or we are binded byMaya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting ourselves intoMaya", you asked.Maya binds us as long as we don't inquire who we truly ARE! We consider us asbody-mind limited entity and it continues as long as we allow it to gounchecked! We do have freedom for this inquiry! We can be free of suchignorance, and stop Maya at individual level. However, if we don't exercise thisfreedom in this birth, we continue to live in ignorance of Maya! So, Maya haspower only if we give it to! Maya stays away from True Bhaktas you give examplesof many times! Those bent on inquiry are Bhaktas of TRUTH!Maya also refers to illusion at cosmic level, is universal for all of us! Forexample, rainbow is illusion in the sense seven colors are seen as magnificentbow(of Rama as some say) just from rain water and sunlight, or mirrage seen indesert etc etc. Even when we know the truth we continue to see Rainbow andmirrages, however, it cannot bind us anymore, on the contrary it is joy all theway.Stories in our puranas are to emphasize the importance of stepping out of Maya,and some dramatization always help in such stories. Narada has this big ego ofwinning Maya, so, he was fooled is one such example!When we look at the world and take objects as real, not knowing it as Ishwara,its reality, it is due to Maya principle, it is said. It means, Maya is not aproblem, but to consider it REAL is the ignorance! If Maya can end, it isappearance and not permanent, that which appears but is not, Permanent is THATwhich never ceases to be. BG 2:16.Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Shri HariI belong to God -I accepted it first of all. One could see who has gyan & othercould not see who has agyan. I and my-ness is main obstacle which i finddifficult to conquer to get peace(Gita 2.71). I am trying as sadhak.Ram Rampawan singhal------------------

NEW POSTING

Thank you all for your insights and co-operation. On having satsang withdevotees of Swamiji in Vrindavan (Shri Nawal Ram ji and consulting ShriRameshji Maharaj by telephone), I learned the following -

Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind's nature to bein constant search. Search of worldly matters and things or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically divert from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.

Jai Sri Krishnapawan singhal

-----

Hari Om

It is so divine to read message of Catherine to Sadhaks. Nothing more needs tobe done. Nothing more needs to be known. Nothing more needs to be got. Such isthe power in what she is practicing. You have caught the nerve of Satsanga-Sadhika Catherine. My pranaams to you.

Sathyanarainji ! Are you referring Sir to BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah pransyati?There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfallof His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) candeviate fron His oath but not from the oath of His Bhakta, viz Arjuna. It is aguarantee of highest order by Paramatma to the Sadhaks. If you turn towards Me ,you shall never fall thereafter ! Krishna had, before Mahabharat War had takenan oath that he shall not lift weapon in the war. When Bheesma Pitamah knew,then he took the oath that I will make Krishna lift the weapon. Krishna forgotabout His oath and ensured that Bhishma Pitamah's oath is protected and liftedthe wheel of a broken Ratha ( chariot) and ran after Bhisma. . Such is the God,Dear Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Dear Sathyanarayanji, you need not beg pardon. We are exchanging ourunderstanding on this wisdom platform! God is really playing by being us in ourroles, I am sure of this as you are! I am not attached to what I share withsadhakas, and never insist it is the only truth!It has and is helping me to go deep within to feel the hidden, invisiblePresence and put few words around it as if finger is pointing at Moon. Just asfinger cannot touch the moon, mind cannot conceive the Presence, SELF! This maysound like bad news. but the good news is: since Self is already what "I" is,ever attained! So "I" cannot attain "SELF", just as eyes cannot see eyes even asthey see everything. The Grace points to the eyes "my dear, the fact that yousee everything is the proof of your Being more than what you see, so stopsearching and just be!". The eyes heed and realize, not that they will seethemselves ever, but the need to see themselves disappear altogether! Mind ispointed the same truth "you cannot see God separate from you, You ARE IT!It is the same here, all attempts to attain Paramatman by "me", non existententity, stops. Then all notions, beliefs which are images in the mind of Godbeing separate from "me" drop away in this Realization!In that Realization, mind becomes quiet, peaceful on its own in which Glimpse ofAtman is natural. So, I don't entertain any ideas about separate God right atthe outset, not wait for Realization to happen!This is what I understand by Paramatman is already attained! Vasudeva Sarvamfrom the beginning!

Unfortunately mind comes back and claims that Glimpse(of God) to be his ownexperience, not realizing that it was absent when Glimpse was Present. Kabirjiputs this as "Either Hari or "me", both cannot be present on the path ofLOVE"(Prem gali ati sankari, tame na samay do................).The Grace by the way, takes the guise of Swamiji or like him or scripture ordevotion or Satsang with spiritual friends like thhis forum.So why don't we realize now? Realization is like glimpses, like lightening,flashes here and flashes there, in time frame from the point of mind, but notdue to time really! When someone realizes SELF, it has nothing to do withelapsed time, because suppose if the same one didn't realize then also timewould have elapsed, right? So time is not the independent variable in theequation at all, only understanding brings it! Understanding means Devotion orSelf-less Karmas or any combinations, but finally only Grace will do it! You canonly go to the Gateless Gate and wait, and the doors open when God wants it!This is the reason Saints say that you do sadhana, and in time You will realize.Time is just a thought which references a point in the past and thought arise inus such as "oh, it took 5 years to realize or change" etc etc. No one canexperience the time in chronological way(it is running river), we experienceonly interveals of time as thoughts only. Thought is psychological time,thoughts creates time(and space too)! see for yourself.Few more clarifications later!Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt--\------

PRIOR POSTING

I am devotee of God and have never had doubts of his existence. I attain Godthis way. I put in different places little post it notes, Please do not let meforget You even for a moment, I say He Naath, He Mere Naath, I think on Bagwaan,Paramatma and Vasudev Sarvam all times. I use prayer of Oh Father let me neverforget you even for a moment, oh Compassionate One, let Your sweet memory bealways with me.Oh kind hearted my Father, my Master there is no one else, let menot forget you even in my dreams,while walking, eating, sleeping let me onlythink of You.In whatever I do let me always think of You.Your sweet, sweetmemories ever remain.Please grace me with this remembrance.. whatever work thatis being done yet in my heart, in my mind there is only God. Please I lie atyour lotus feet entreating let not even a moment pass without me rememberingyou, let me think of you every second, HE NAATH HE MERE NAATH Let me neverforget, let me remember all times...

catherine

--------------------------------

Hari Om

Pawanji. Why you should consider some thing to be difficult to conquer? What isthe difficulty?

What is yours? A thing/body over which you have no independent control , canthat be yours? By what yardstick you consider some thing/body to be yours? Athing/body which was not yours in the past, not going to be yours in the future,at present also it is constantly drifting away from you, how that thing can beyours? Where is the difficulty in understanding this simple fact?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B---Dear sadaks,I first beg pardon from Sri Pratabji. Sri Pratabji, Sri Vyasji, Sri Mikeji, andall those NAMES mentioned by Sri Vyasji are one of Paramathuma` s and notdifferant. Only names divides to produce sounds. Sri Pratabji, it is not me whoimplied on you. Where is you or me? We are one and the same as said by you.Sri Pratabji you have answered in your posting. That is, ""We make suchstatements as "until you realize Self or Paramatman, you are in Maya, bondage!But I say until you choose to remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Iknew you will precisely answer and only in that sense I requested you.One more clarification from sadaks on the above line,""until you choose toremain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Does Maya bind us or we arebinded by Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we gettingourselves into Maya" Some sadak has written about Naradhji getting monkey facebecause he said he won Maya. Maya has played with Paramathuma when HE decendedto earth as Badrinarayana, and with Bagavan Shiva and Maya lost & went back inshame.""Swamiji means what he said "Paramatman is already attained", is a statement offact we need to discover for ourselves!"" promtly said by SriPratabjiBagavan said in Geetha that line, ""Aneka Samshidayah-------". That man doesattain me in one of the several births."" which means that man alreadyattained, but when is the question (Time factor).Dear Sadaks, kindly enlighten me on the line starting with ""Name Baktha-----""said in Geetha. Please be precise in answer with a story example if possible.Namaste to Sri Pratabji and all other sadaks.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

 

--------------------PRIOR POSTINGDear sadak, (pawan singhal )Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind nature to be inconstant search. Search of worldly matters and things/ Or Search of divinity.Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly onworldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce youractivity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind willautomatically diverse from world to divinity to great extent. Once retiredrenounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takesplace. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan--------------------------------Dear Sadaks,Sri Pratab Bhatt says, To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying salvation" or he maynot even need to ask. God would know all true Bhaktas' heartfelt desires formerging in Him."" But Swamiji saidGoswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and free me of desires, angerand faults'. Only `Give me your devotion as that alone will suffice.' 3rd March,2009, Tuesday Falgun Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Mangalvar

Sri Pratab I know he will have answer for SadhaksJai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan------------------------------Dear Sadaks,

Sri Pratabji thus said so is absolutely correct, Thus salvation is what wealready are. If you remember Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, how canyou attain that which is attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is whatwe are, not we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.

Now the question comes from ordinary men. -1) I am fraud, doing all underhand dealings, I cheat people and bank or evennation, I know how bad I am. Sir, you are telling me that I already attainedParamathuma .2) Politician said, I know what I am doing and Sir you call me I attainedParamathuma. Don’t be kidding.3) Student said, I have to achieve so much in life Sir you say I attainedParamathuma.4) Householder said, I have to get my children married and see that they getsettled, don’t be joking I attained Paramathuma.

What Swamiji said was also correct. Then where came the difference?

Human alone is blessed with such a body and intellect that can discriminate goodand bad, body and the soul, jeeva and paramathuma. Now a boy is told that he isfit to become doctor. He studies hard and gets Degree as a doctor. He did notknow he can become doctor until told. He then studied well and became doctoronly on listening to advisor (Guru). So Swamiji shares the teachings of the Gitaand scriptures saying human has in built capacity and ability to attain God.Which means that one need not fear that he cannot attain GOD, as he has allprovisions to attain God. But human does not know this power within is there.Now take animals they don't have that power to attain God, except in exceptionalcases. Animals have to raise to human level to attain God. Referance; KapilaGeetha told by Bagavan to Deva Hoothi. Even devatas, Indra etc are to take humanbirth and get salvation says Vedas. This valuable life gift (Godliness) isattained, but unaware of the birth of a human birth gift obtained by passingthrough various birth from tree to animals. Misuse this birth and go back to aworm in a dust bin says Vivekachudamani. Narayana Batadri a famous sant ofGuruvayuralso wrote that the human body is invaluable gift, if misused one takesbirth as animals. Referance: Srimath Narayiniyam. Bagavan in Geetha also said,"Aneka Jalma Samshidayaha-----" Gyan is that you now accept that you are in aattained position of Paramathuma. Vig (Scientifically- Science of Creation) isapplied to Gyan and one becomes Vig Gyani where by he can never ever commitmistake after becoming so. A Gyani has committed mistake but Vig Gyani does not.Best Example: Adi Sankara was Gyani but his Gyan was incomplete, until BagavanShiva came in disguise as Chandala with 4 dogs in street of Kasi and gave VigGyan. Referance : Manisha Panchakam.

Sri Pratabji wrote that "Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa. .....Karishyetavachanam.. .."I remember my true Self now Lord, I will do what you say".

So every human needs Sri Krishna. the Guru to say these, then he will say, Iremember my true self until then he is in maya.

Sadaks, body is a vital tool to attain Paramathuma. Bhramaji was jealous inheaven when he saw Sri Krishna eating along with his friends in Vridavan, onefeeding each other. He thought what a gift to be a child in Vrindavan along withSri Krishna. My post is useless. Devas and devathas where still more jealous andit would have best to be a calf or cow there rather than in this Bog lok wastingtime.

Sadaks we are blessed to be in human form on earth to the extent to serve SriKrishna in Pooja, in making Mala, in giving HIM fruits, in prostrating at hisfeet, in singing HIS songs, in seeing HIM blissfully. This NO ONE else in 13Loks can do. Referance : Sants of Panderpur, Shenayi, Chota Mela, Sakubai etc.and also written in Gyanapaana of the great sant who flew to Vaikunt by PuspakaViman in 1650 at Malapuram in public view Sant Sri Poothanam.

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------False asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti) Said Sri pawan singhal.How many times happiness came and gone?. How many times unhappiness came andgone? It will come and go, so be aware of this truth.Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariI accept Gita 7(19) that God is everywhere and in everything but Ican not realise God due to lack of understanding of Gita 18(48) & false asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things thatcome & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti).I am trying to make relationship with self but in vain. Other way isonly to meet the devotee of God in physical form as guided in Gita 4(34). I realise swamiji as Giani -Gita 4(34) & take benefit tillassociation with Him. Now I am trying those benefit through group that is insant satsang. I have already requested tosadhakas of this group but in vain.I believe in association of great soul in physical form to getspiritual guidance as I feel with Swamiji at Rishikesh & Kolkatta.Please assist me to meet divine sadhaka & other realised greatsoul/Giani/devotee of God

pawan singhalRam Ram----------------------------NEW POSTING

Shri HariLonging is by the Self is answer of my question as explained byMeera Das. I request to Sh. Meera Das & all sadhaks please explainHow it will happen? I can only pray to God. I am helpless.Ram Rampawan singhal

------------------------

Shree HariRam Ram

Here are simple, clear and very easy words spoken in Hindi bySwamiji -

"Sabse pehle sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hoon. Ek baar saralhriday se dridhta poorvak sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hihoon. Jab aap bhagwaan ke ho to aapko unki smriti ke liye kuch karnahi nahin padega. Aapki har kriya unki pooja hogi."

Meager attempt at translating these simple words -

"First of all, accept that I am Bhagwaan's (I belong to God). Justonce, with a simple, straight forward heart, accept with a firmconviction, that I am only Bhagwaan's (I belong to only God). Whenyou become Bhagwaan's then you will have to do absolutely nothingfor His rememberance. All your activities will become His worship."

Now the Panchamrit (Five Golden Principles) just happens on it'sown -1) I am only God's2) I reside in His kingdom only3) I do His work (good and auspicious) only4) I receive only His prasad (blessing/offering)5) With the prasad received from Him, I serve only His family.

Now what will cause you to forgot Bhagwaan (God)? When you becomesomeone's do you have to remember you belong to them? Do you haveto recite at night I belong to Him, I belong to Him, I belong toHim? Do you have to study to remind yourself, since I belong to myBeloved, I must cook and do other work for Him? Do you have toremind yourself that since I belong to Him, I must take care of Hischildren? and so on?

Become Bhagwaan's (God's) ONLY ONCE !!!! .... says Swamiji... Magicfollows... undoubtedly.

Meera DasRam Ram

---------------------------

In India we are lucky to have amongst us God realised souls who areshowing others the path to salvation. These gurus by shunningworldly comforts and possessions are showing us the way. Once werealise that every thing that we see is maya or illusion and thatthe only truth is the Soul or Atma within each of us whose only goalis to unite with the Parmatma, we can attain salvation. What we aretoday is the result of our past karmas but we can control what wewill become through through the result of our present karmas. So ifwe follow the right path of sewa or helping others, satsang orseeking the company of good people, sadhna or spiritual practicesand dhyan or meditation to connect with our Soul then we will be onthe right path.Hari Shanker Deo--------------------------

Thank You Narinder Bhandariji. I bow to YOU and The Krishnarejoicing your Rejoice.

Respects.

Naga Narayana----------------------------

Dear Sadaks,One says Salvation/Mukthi is always there. Another point said thatyou that Sat Chit and Anandham. Then why one has to suffer? Becausereason

1) One knows not to tell lies, but says- Mind level.2) One knows drinking alcohol is wrong, but drinks -Body level.3) One knows that he has to Sadhana, but does not do, intellectlevel.

These 3 are called Trikarna Sudhi (Clealiness of body mind andintellect) How to achieve it? By guidance - God/Guru. SalvationMukthi is there, but one is not living in it as the qualities arenot there. A person with eye sight is unable to read. But then heneeds spectacles. So the body, mind and intellect is not in form, itis spoilt. He needs Gyan (Spectacle) to see within (Athuman) hisswaroop.He gets from Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh. Until then he does notrealize that he is easily reachable to God/Salvation/Mukthi. That iswhy without Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh he undergoes birth afterbirth. The man who obtained Gyan knows preyty well that his Swaroopis itself divine and because of curtain of Maya he lost valuablelife time.What is wrong in learning from the saint's teachings? In fact theirteaching are there for one to follow. Otherwise those historiescould not have been written. In fact it is easy to follow a saintpath to reach God faster. Saints showed easy methods that could makeone realize.There were so many disciples who followed the instructions of theirGuru and obtained Mukthi. Example: Sant Ekanath. In Kaliyug it isdifficult for man to read scriptures/Sanskrit Etc and then know thepath. In Srimath Bagavath says in Kaliyug Namasankeerthan is enoughto get liberated. Each yuga Dharma is there in Scripts. If someonetells me easy and quick and fast way to reach Badrinath, what iswrong in following his advise. So are Bakthas who guides us. Just bypresenting a flower Mala daily with faith and love to God a saint(Vishnu Chithar) says it will pave path to Vaikunt. It seems easybut if one tries that somewhere or other he fails in timely pooja orloose a day without, or gets stuck to some business or occupied in afamily function Etc. So sincerity, faith, love towards God settingaside even a great need of family produces realization. Sadaks, manyof us go temple say certain day Friday/Saterday. How punctual are we?

Hiranyakasipu and Prahald had argument where is GOD. Prahald said HEis everywhere. His father asked is HE in this pillar. Prahaladsays, "Drusyate" (Yes I see God). His father says "Nah Durshyate" (Ican not see HIM). Why? One has Gyan the other has Agyan. ThoughParamathuma there , one could see and other could not see. Most ofus are still in Agyan. Here Guru was Prahalad who showed GOd andHiranyakasipu obtained Mukthi.

Jai Sri KrishnaB.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------

PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Dear Pawanji, Swamiji has said that such experience of the presenceof God, the rememberance of God, your Beloved One by truesentiments, is only possible by one's own Self. Not by mind/intellect and not by trying to remember. It is only when thislonging is by the Self, that it happens on it's own simply,naturally, and involuntarily (Swabhavik). Swamiji says this is soinnate that it happens even in one's sleep. Rather it happensnaturally all the time. Intense attachment and longing for God -round the clock. It is not about "doing" but simply "being". Itsimply and naturally "IS". Absolutely nothing has to be done toremember our Beloved One.

Just like when our Beloved is going to arrive by train, and we havenot seen him for a long time and we are waiting at the railwaystation for Him, and we feel the anxiety, the longing - When will myBeloved come? When will I see Him? How much longer will it be beforeour eyes meet? This anticipation, this longing is so intense thatone simply cannot wait even a moment. It is consuming ! Just thatone thought.. when will I see my Beloved!

Just like when we are intensely thirsty and are consumed with thethought of a sip of water. Do you have such enthusiasm? Such drive?Such Zeal? Such Intensity? Such Sentiments to meet Your Beloved One,God? - asks Swamiji

Meera DasRam Ram

-----------------------------

Krishna and His song

The Heart,

In longing pain

Cries out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

The Soul rejoices.

 

The Mind

In love's ecstasy

Bows at the feet of the Beloved

The Soul rejoices.

 

And Krishna smiles,

The flute rising to his lips.

Ah! The symphony of the soundless sound,

Where

The seven disappear into the Light of lights

Where

Time disappears into Timelessness

 

And

The Heart,

In longing's pain

Keeps Crying out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

And

Thence comes the Lords song of songs

The Bhagavad geetha, ah !

To assuage the hearts pain

And, the Minds thirst for Knowledge, and Light

aum

narinder bhandari

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Pawanji ! You have received sterling in sights in response to yourQs, the last one from Mira Dassji. Truth and only truth is there inher last message to you. If you just "accept" with a simple heartwhat she has so eloquently recommended to you, your search gets overeffortlessly, then and there !! Where can Paramatma hide when youstart with goal of BG 7:19? Can ice hidden behind ice ever remainhidden?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Dear Sadhak,Why think to achieve salvation at the "end" ? It cannot be a futuregoal. It is HERE and NOW as stated by sadhak Narinderji.Only effort needed is to be present Here and Now with a deep longingto reach HIM. Now is the eternity zone. All spiritual practices likebreath control, name chanting, mala japa etc leads sadhak to remainin present moment.The whole world is nothing but an illusion, a web of our thinkingmind. When a sadhak practices living in here and now, he is out ofthe grip of his thinking mind and all doing becomes happenings."Sarva Dharma Paritjya, mamekam sharanam vrij"Gitaji. when sadhaksurrender to Krishna, he accept every moment As IT IS and remainssubmerged in the ocean of Love, Bliss and Peace.with Love,a sadhikaSadhna Karigar

Shri HariI am asking question due to my nature-Gita 5(14) & Gita 2(7) butbefore Gita 18(73) & because I know the truth-everything belongs toBhagwan, the essence, I say this but I do not believe the truth, theessence as i say in prayer written by Swami Shri RamsukhdasjiMaharaj.Meera Das & Pratap Bhatt has explained after Gita 18(73)Ram Ram------------------------------

 

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTINGShree HariRam Ram

Swamiji incessantly, relentlessly, persistently spokeabout "Vasudeva Sarvam"(All is God) in the final years in His mortal body. He repeated thismany times- PLEASE READ CAREFUL AND ACCEPT IMMEDIATELY! If there is noquestions ordoubts, then PLEASE ACCEPT RIGHT NOW!

Swamiji said -Whatever is perceived with mind, speech, sight and other senses isonly God.Accept this immediately. The active, inactive, conscious, matter,[born of egg,sweat and sprouting from earth] - all are God and nothing else. Goodor bad,wicked or virtuous, all are God. There is nothing else besides God.He whowishes to attain God should accept this fact. As Shri JaydayaljiGoyandka usedto say that "Whatever is seen is God's divine form and whatever isexperiencedand activities undertaken is His divine play/pastime (lila).

If you are very serious about your question, if you believe in Gita4:11 (thathowever a devotee worships Me, so do I approach them) and have anardent andintense longing to find the answer to this question, it does notmatter if it isat the end of life or not, SIMPLY FROM NOW ONWARDS - EVERYTHING YOUSEE ISBHAGWAAN'S SWAROOP (God's Divine Form) AND EVERYTHING YOUEXPERIENCE/DO IS HISLILA (Divine Play/Pastime).

Now if a devotee worship Bhagwaan in this manner, where canBhagwaanji HIDE?Tell me one place he will not be? Tell me how at the end of thislife, end ofthis human body, He will not be there as Yamdoot (God of Death)?Tell me whereyou will need to go searching for this rare Devotee of God by true & heartfeltsentiments? If your sentiments are true and heartfelt, can you notaccept whatGita says and what Swamiji says that Bhagwaan (Vasudeva) iseverywhere, ineverything, in all that you see, think, feel, do, experience andmore, becausethere is only "Vasudeva" and this is clearly stated in the Gita 7:19and throughout the Gita in Chapter 11 and more!

Do you have any further questions or doubts? Please bring them out!

Meera DasRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sri Pawan kumar

I remember the words of a man who is an ardent devotee of SriRamana. He used to say 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVENIF YOU DO NOT THINK OF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE.

Please contemplate on that

vrsarma podury

PRIOR POSTINGDear Sadhakas, Namaste!To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delayingsalvation" or he may not even need to ask. God would know all trueBhaktas' heartfelt desires for merging in Him.What I mean is the when you are in love with God, unconditionally,you wouldn't want to make loving Him as a means to the end(salvation). Such love or remembering God constantly is in itselfthe means and end, without duality even though on-lookers may feelBhagwaan and Bhakta as separate.I consider salvation as Moksha or liberation from a false senseof "me", non existent ego and establishment in Atman our true Self.Thus salvation is what we already are. If you remember Swamiji saysParamatma is already attained, how can you attain that whihc isattained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what we are, notwe will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, notattaining.In attaining anything there is duality of someone who attains andsomething to be attained, not the case here in this Bhakti (lovingdevotion).Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa......Karishye tavachanam...."I remember my true Self now Lord, will do what you say".One lives free of "me" as Sat-Chit-Ananda only.In salavation no individual entity survives, it is livingimpersonally, as Intelligence, Love, Peace, Steadfastness! Karmasare done when needed without doer!Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,I am remember the boon of Kunti in Mahabharat.She requested LordKrishna to keep them in poverty so that she can remember almightyGod.Still however we should keep that spirit and in spite of alltroubles and our condition we should never avoid offering prayers atleast or twice.We should learn as to hoe to prayer.Please refer tomy book on 'Prayers of all Religions of the world. This is what IfeelTruly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt

--------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Sree Pratabji, Kindly bear with me for my mistake. Your goodnesssaid-- say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he havetime to ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living inSalvation?. Baktha is in constant thought of GOD that is why he hasfull time to askGOD why that HE is delaying salvation. Worldly man partly with Godhas time to ask GOD for his desires to be fullfilled one after theother until death. Such man Geetha has said Kamiyartha Baktha, whomGOD gives him long rope fulfilling his desires one after other, GODhoping he will become Jignasu. That hope of GOD is benovolence. Onceagain pardon me if I am wrong and enlighten me.

Salvation is that I thought is attained stage, not living insalvation. Salvation is to be attained and not living in it. Meanstrying for salvation. Once salvation is attained there is nodesires. You are very right Sir.B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------

God is available only when we become His and remember His Gloriesand His name many times continuously, then and then we will feel Hispresence within your hearts. He will be seen but his presence willbe felt. This is how Mirabai, Narsinh Mehta and Chaitainya MahaPrabhu realized God.This is what I feel everyday while offering prayers

Truly yoursS S Bhatt

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadak,You are searching GOD outside you . Outside you HE exists, but inVeerat Roop. Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youRproblem ends.B.Sathyanarayan-----------------------------Thanks.Believe and love God because Gita 5(29) verdict as explainedby Raja Gurdasani & Kamlesh KumarPawan SinghalRam Ram-------------------------------Dear Sadhaks ,The question , in some way, is related to a desire to walk the Pathof a true sadhka . Some thoughts that blossomed from within on twodifferent points of time , are given below. Both are related .

In fewest words, The Path of a sadhak , could perhaps, be stated asfollows :

1.We are what we are , at this point of Time. It could never havebeen ( and , can never be )otherwise .

2.When the Self is Known, all is Known. It is not that all answersare available ( The field of Knowledge is so vast); itis ...that..... all Questions drop....... whatever needs to be knownat a particular point of Time ( always Herenow) is made available toThe Knower of the Self by Existence .

3. Living now is no more ' living in the Time'( Past and Future). Itis always in your own ' presence' ( awareness) in the Here now.Spontaneous living sans Fear , Pain, and delusion.

4.The sense of Doership disappears .

5.Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.

6.Words become Fewer, and they flower from your Silence (Peacefulness ! ) And, They are purposeful. They have Power ( power-----not as the world understands, but the power of God and Love......to transform the seeker ).

7. The Whole Process ( walking the Path ) is for Oneself. If, wewere already Enlightened .............. we shall pass the Test ( weshall Know) by the joy of conduct ...... ( The Conduct is theTest ).Generally, it is , and will be, in accordance with the basicprinciples shown ( given ) by the Knowers of Truth. We shall remainBlissful, and Peaceful .

8. The True Seeker yearns for the Truth, his/ her own Being , withthe intensity of HERENOW. THe Desire is to end all words . Theshortest Way.No prolonging. Minimum Discussion. No argument. No imposition ofones own Concepts. Acceptance of everyone's Being ( SEE 1 Above ),respecting others' Being, respecting his/ her own being .

9. and finally.......( although, one could go on....... ) The way toLight is not through ' acquisition of new knowledge, but yourwillingness to drop your Knowledge ( concepts/ conditionings).Anything that is born, has to die. True Love, True knowledge, Truthof Being, is Unborn, Unchanging and , therefore, Undying. It isalready present in YOU, You are already That .

ah ! what more to say and how ? ( already too many words !! )

-------------For Spiritual Seekers longing for the divine mystical union withthat great Void , we call Existence, Nature, or God :

1. The longing for God is Existence Gift to the Seekers on thesacred Path of love and Light.

2. This longing one day, culminates in Grace, and the personalexperience ( knowing) of the Un-knowable

3. The paradox of Action ( effort) and Grace gets resolved in thatexperience.

4. That resolution of the paradox is the state of being, where˜doing is˜ doing nevermore where all becomes a happenning Graceand yet, there is no running away from doing what needs being done.there is NO running away, because you are not into doing any morerunning away cannot happen. all happens as it happens. ExistencesPlay , with narinder-ness in total acceptance of it a part ofExistential Play and Doing

5.TILL THAT HAPPENS. Doing, much Doing is the Way.. and it is theKnowers of Truth that guide us into attitudes and conduct to strivefor Bhagvada geetha gives to the seeker, the threefold practise of ˜Karma-yoga action , surrendering the fruit to the Lord),Bhakti (devotion) and Gyana ( Knowledge of the True ) . All the scripturesspeak nothing else they speak and shriek, in love of the seekingheart,what is the Way , of the Karma and Dharma

6.The final test of ˜having arrived is your conduct and who is tojudge the conduct ? you, yourself , of course ! it is the movementof the self , for the self; and it is the self , which chooses todie to the self , to realise the Self.

the last thought that comes to the mind is . that the self, when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.

Narinder bhandari

AUM----------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!This is just to answer Sathyanarayanji's observations on my previouspost!I say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have time toask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in Salvation?

I say this to emphasize "remembering God and not expectinganything", just unconditional love for God goes a long way.No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead to anhilationof "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger, jealousy, etc) haveno footing. "me" is ignorance who thrives on shadripus(6 enemies)!Such Bhaktas don't say they are in salvation but we can ceratinlysay they are, to pay our respect!Even if Bhaktas like Kabirji and Prahladji asked something from God,it still is alright to just keep rememebring God without expecting,isn't it? Gita teaches us too. Each of Bhaktas may have differentapproaches to teach us to be true Bhaktas. We have to be inspired bysuch Bhaktas, not necessarily copy them. They are all unique intheir own way is the proof of different expressions of the sametruth.Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------PRIOR POSTING

Q: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for AttainingSalvation?

Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! There are nosentiments - rather no emotions of any sort - there either.Remembering The God is another myth.

Then it remains a puzzle, why such a natural reality is not felt?!Why can't we even remember That when it is claimed to be ever-present?! What is the problem??!! The reason is the imbibed cataractin terms of our wrong notions (ignorance) and corrupt attitude(inertia). Just like the vison becomes clear on the removal of itshinderance, our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed. Sadhana is the process of removal of theignorance and inertia that cloud our existence, perception andexperience limiting us to imagine everything within these domains.Our dependence on these mechanisms of existence makes us insist fortheir approval for everything - even The God. The dependence is sostrong and opaque that we can't even dream of any alternative.Hence the insistence, if there is any reality, it should be revealedhere!

Unfortunately, finite cannot withold the infinite! The Upanishadsmake it very clear:

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

The Absolute cannot be approached by any relative media such aslistening, thinking, discussion, talking, etc. irrespective of theself-proclaimed excellence in the same. All perceived objects aswell as ideas remain finite within the limited perception itself.Therefore, The Truth remains oblivious to the cognition as far asthere is insistence for seeing everything through the lens ofcognition only. As natural to a lense, it can capture only what itsees and can transmit only what it can. In fact, what is transmittedmay not even resemble the original often thanks to its spatialboundaries, color filtering and refractional distortions. The imagesensed within and the object attempted to be sensed remain alien toeach other thanks to the opaqueness in the very cognitive system.Therefore, any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional reality isfutile in the first place.

But, the ever-present reality should be theoretically the easiest tobe attained … in fact it is already there even without any effort ofseeking! Then what is the difficulty? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.The ever-attained is ever-ready for a seeker if he/she ever couldjust escape the clutches of self-woven fish-net of desires and fearscocooned within opaque shell of ignorance and inertia. If one couldjust drop the dependence on these, THAT is naturally THERE for everyone!

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanumswaam ||

Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT which isThe You before your birth, at your birth, through your life, at yourdeath, and after your death. If you let yourself be … THAT revealsitself within and around.

Ramana Maharshi puts his brilliant depth of appreciation beautifully:

Ulladalad ull unarv ullado?Ulla porul ullal ara ullatte ulladaal.Ullam enum ulla porul ullal evan?Ullatte ullabadi ullade ullal unar ||

I beg Maharshi's pardon as I am tempted to give its Kannadaequivalent in my limited understanding, in case any could benefitfrom,

Iralaarada ola-iruvu iruvudentu?Ola-arivu olage nintu hora baaradu.Horabaarada ola-iruvanu porevudentu?Ola-iruvanu aritu iruva arive nija.

Grossly, it means,

How can there be a sense of existence without something beingwithin?The being within remains "as is" NOT seeking anything.How to attain the one within that seeks nothing? and, who can everattain That?Understand that you can attain the one within by just being withinseeking nothing.

Swami Ramsukhdasji lays out a clear strategy to develop the strengthwithin to turn our focus from our conceived world to The Reality inhis revelation on "Bhagavattattva" (Sadhan Sudha Sindhu):

1. Purify the Bahih Karana (extrinsic awareness) to develop AntahKarana (intrinsic awareness).2. Filter the Antah Karana to extract Viveka Drishti (innateawareness).3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to remain in The Tattva … The Absolute(That is often called Tattva Drishti or Salvation etc.)

I have never seen such out-spoken and clear-cut strategy in thisregard elsewhere so far. I recommend everyone to study The Nectar hegenerously pours out for everyone of us with care. FYI, it is beingcurrently circulated.

Respects.

Naga Narayana------------------------------Hari Om

Pawanji ! You "become" of Paramatma ! Just As: Without any practicea wife "becomes" of her husband. Accept firmly once with a simpleheart: I am of the God, only God is mine.

Once you do that Bhajan has started unceasingly in you. The "karta"(doer/thinker/ego) has become of God, now all the karmas have becomeGodly- naturally. The real Bhajan/remembering/thinking about God isthat which "happens" effortlessly and which is not "done" .

Look at the status today. We "have to" think/remember about God,while thinking/remembering about the world "happens automatically".

Why? Because at "subtle ego level" we continue to be of world. Hencethoughts about the world are automatic. While remaining of the worldonly , we want to remember/think about God- hence we experienceproblems in concentrating.

CHANGE YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" ! Thereuponbhajan will be automatic and remembering about the world will "haveto be done"!

As simple as that !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B------------------------------Thanks to all. I want to know sixteen powers which given by God sothat we can do many good things in life and we will be happy asposting by Shri Shankerprasad S. Bhatt.I agree God is doing most vital actions of our life withoutinterruption & without any noise also without showing any ehsan.I have to renounce desire-Gita 2(47), I concluded from the postingof all sadhakRam Ram

pawan singhal--------------------------------Shree HariRam RamPawanji, kindly post "sixteen powers by God" as separate question.From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

PRIOR POSTING

Priy sadhakIn my view & experience I suggest please realise god work in everylittle bit of action happening in & around U.Like heart beat. Think who is doing it?Like breathing.Like digesting whatever u eat & nourishment of ur body.Can U do all this?Then it is proved that god is doing most vital actions of our lifewithout interruption and without any noise. also without showing anyehsan.Doesnt it make u believe & love god?If yes love moreif no ask urself why why u are so ehsan faramosh.Sorry if I hurt U.I didnt mean it.thanxRaja Gurdasani------------------------

Dear Sadaks,Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation? THUS said Sri Pratab.Bakthas at various levels asked Bagavan to help in distress andasked HIM to liberate him from this world. There are numerable songswere Bakthas were asking with GOD, to liberate one from the 6enemies (^ bad Gunas -Kama, Krodh etc). Even Prahalad who was withSri Vishnu all the time, sang so. Kabir did so. Though they werehighly elevated souls why they sang so? Because they never left anatom of thought any part of their life that they are already insalvation. This thought they knew is Ego in disguise which is nottracable.But if one understood he is already in salvation, he becomes dumb.Behaves like Pagal Baba, never cares to even dress, never cares forfood. Those great men we recognised them as "Chitta Braman", (metalyhandicap). We are accustomed in seeing world, so to our eyes theywill be Pagal. But after their disappearence we build temples.

B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Pawan Kumar ji,I am inspired by God to write to you on the subject.Love is God.God is Love.Love allServe all.See God in every creation of God. God in you is the God in everyone.Serve every creation of God is the purpose of every human who isgiven this blessed Birth.Think GoodSee GoodHear GoodDo Good.

Every moment / breath of life in you is the blessing of God , sothank God for giving you an opportunity to serve HIM by serving HIScreation.

By doing this you will realize the and attain Salvation. Choice iswith you but to do this you always need the blessings of thatSupreme. and HE who will inspire you and guide you the path ofsalvation. Do your Good Karma and leave the fruit of that unto HIMto decide.

It is like you wish to win a lottery but never bought the ticket.

One need to have a strong determination and go step by step anddrop by drop you can fill the ocean.

I apologize, if I hurt your feelings in any wayWith Warmest Regards and Ever Flowing Eternal LoveKAMLESH KUMARHELP EVER HURT NEVERLOVE ALL SERVE ALLHAVE A NICE AND A BEAUTIFUL GOD BLESSED DAY

Kamlesh Kumar------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!Q: How can I get salvation at least at the end?Answer( to me at least): By not expecting salvation! When "I" whoexpect salvation or whatever, and salvation itself are seen to beone and the same, salvation has happened.In otherwords, I and desired object are understood to be the same,duality of subject object ceases and all struggles to desireanything vanishes, leaving God only, experienced as Peace, Love,Beauty, Harmony, Joy!Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks ofGod, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?It is only by constantly desiring one pushes away the object ofdesire!when expectations or desires including that of Moksha end, "I" alsoend at the same time, not later!See the truth of this statement, and start living, stop expecting!Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------

Dear Sadak,pawan kumar singha. Very simple. If your basic duties are over andif you want to quit worldly life, then it is surely possible.Bagavan has very clearly said in Geetha, "Aninya Chitayayome", meansconstant thought on ME, that soul I (Bagavan) takes over. Yourresponsibility in search of HIM ceases, but on the other hand HISresponsibility takes over.This also Bagavan has said in Geetha, that by HIS sankalp HE willliberate HIS baktha in same birth.Totally dedicate everything to Bagavan by Pooja, Bhajan, makinggarlands for Bhagavan, growing fruits for Bhagwaan, listeningscriptures/puranas Etc, learning vedic way of life in food, sleepand practice, washing cloths for Bhagavan, cleaning temple, lightinglamps, looking at HIM with love and affection, saying Japa walkingaround HIM (Idol), just pronouncing Govinda, Madhava, Sri KrishanayaVasudevaya Mukundhaya Namo Namo as one walks around garden. In allmoments to dedicate everything to Bagavan, B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------Dear Sadhak,

Every one should have knowledge of how he or she got this form ofhuman being after many turns of birth and death in 8.4 milliondifferent forms of births. If we know we will always remember Himbecause we are obligated to Him

Secondly if we know that after giving human birth God gave us somesixteen divine powers so that we can do many good things in life andwe will be happy.Shankerprasad S Bhatt

----------------------------We can do sewa, satsang, sadhna and meditation which spiritualpractices will definitely lead us in the right direction.Hari Shanker Deo

-------------------------------SUMMARY OF SADHAK POSTINGS- Love is God. God is Love. Love all. Serve all.See God in All. God in you is the God in All.Serve All.Think Good. See Good. Hear Good. Do Good. Leave the Fruit to Him.Every breath is blessing of God, so thank God for his blessing toserve His creation! Thus, realize and attain Salvation. Choice isyours, but by His blessings, inspiration, guidance you will attain.- "Aninya Chitayayome", means constant thought on ME, that soul I(Bagavan) takes over. By HIS sankalp HE will liberate HIS baktha insame birth. In all moments to dedicate everything to Bhagavan.- Can get salvation, by not expecting salvation'- by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of desire!- all struggles to desire anything vanishes, leaving God only,experienced as Peace, Love, Beauty, Harmony, Joy!- Bhakta constantly remembers God, loosing himself, thus living inSalvation. Does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not livealready in Salvation?- god is doing most vital actions of our life without interruptionand without any noise. also without showing any ehsan.- after human birth in 8.4 million different life forms... we areeternally obligated to Bhagwaan- Our experience becomes transparent when the ignoranceand inertia are removed.- Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not beattained, nor can it be attained by any effort! finite cannotwithold the infinite! Any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptionalreality is futile in the first place. what is the difficulty inrealizing that which is ever-present? The difficulty is theinsistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. Theinsistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … justperceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT.Remain "as is" NOT seeking anything. Simply be!Approach: 1) Purify the extrinsic awareness; Filter the intrinsicawareness to extract Viveka Drishti 3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti toremain in The Tattva … The Absolute- Become of "Paramatma", then bhajan starts unceasingly, the 'karta'has become of God. Our problem is that at "subtle ego level" wecontinue to be of world, hence thoughts of world are automatic.Change YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" !- remembering God and not expecting anything, just unconditionallove for God. No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) leadto anhilation of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger,jealousy, etc) have no footing.- Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR problem ends.- all Questions drop - whatever needs to be known is known.- living in the present, Now and here.- sense of Doership disappears- Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows tothe Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussionis only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.- Words become Fewer- True Seeker yearns for the Truth, HERENOW. No prolonging. MinimumDiscussion. No argument. No imposition. Acceptance of everyone'sBeing ( SEE 1 Above ),- and finally... drop all Knowledge- longing for God is Existence Gift- for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to die to theself , torealise the Self. when itarrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,knows now , that he does not know.- 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVEN IF YOU DO NOT THINKOF HIM IT IS ALSO HIS GRACE

-------------------------

GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to theextent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.5. Focus on subject at hand only.6. Do not include links to the other sites.7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).8. Do not personalize message9. All responses may not be posted.10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATORRam Ram------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: Subscribe: - Unsubscribe: -