And one other thing...

[Guest guest]

For me this website and forum are something that keeps me grounded

and keeps my eyes open to things i see; almost like a spidey sense

that goes off when i hear someone say " we should do this or

whatever " . The collective for me has alot of good things to offer,

but this website is like my other half( balance) so that i can alway

read and remind myself as to what sahajay yoga( the union not the

organizeation) is all about; thus keeping me focused( as best as can

be at this time) on where my efforts should be directed and so i

don't lose myself in any fanatacism or any such things to the point

where i cannot return. Like Violet has said, i should get my

spiritual nourishment here and get the physical help i need at the

collective. Thats what i am doing and plan to continue doing.

 

I thank you all and i always know that my collective( the online

one) is here and will be here if ever and whenever i need them; they

haven't let me down since :-)

 

Take care

 

Kyyan

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> , " semirafields "

> <semirafields> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Danny,

> > There are some things I'd like to say about your reply to Kyyan.

> > You have mentioned that it is necessary to go to the collective

> > regularly for progress.

> > I am experiencing severe problems with this because I find the

> > organisation to be involved in lies and coverups. Also, I'm

tired

> > of getting told about footsoaking, and hearing twisted versions

of

> > what I know to be otherwise.

> > I cannot understand why realised people are knowingly practising

> > deception, whereas even unrealised people can discern the

> > difference between truth and lies. The layers of pretence and di

> > dishonesty are repelling.

> > It is true that meditating in the collective is a very powerful

> > experience. However, this cannot be a reason to ignore the wrong

> > things that have been happening in the organisation.

> > If people in the SY organisation had any integrity at all, and

> > were sincere, all these troubling issues would be brought out

into

> > the open and faced up to. The fact that this has not been done,

> > and that there is resistance to people voicing honest and

sincere

> > opinions, is a mockery to the pursuit of Truth.

> >

> > Warmest regards, Semira

> >

> >

>

> Dear Semira and Kyyan and Violet,

>

> Since the 1987 speech those who have managed the organization have

> succeeded beyond all expectations in driving away seekers in every

> way possible. i never knew Shri Mataji did say all that i believed

> so strongly all these years. How then did management SYs hide this

> masterpiece for so long from so many?

>

> i totally agree with you that Kyyan should stay away from the

> collective. This is because nothing much has changed since 1987

when

> Shri Mataji was shocked:

>

> " I get reports from others, who say: " Your Sahaja Yogis are wicked

> people, because they say to people: `You are evil.' `You are

> possessed.' `You are this, you are that.' – They are very wicked

> people. "

>

> The rest of the speech is also true Kyyan. Nothing has changed

over

> the years. All i am sure is that things have gotten worse,

provided

> you understand what Semira is talking about. BTW, we are a

> collective here too and can provide you with the spiritual

> nourishment. Above all the benefits available here is that you

will

> at all times be reminded of the Truth, something that most

> management-controlled collectives have no conscience of upholding.

>

> And Violet, my pranaam for this fantastic puja speech. You have no

> idea how much i appreciate your work and dedication in bringing

> forth such gems that help all of us separate the wheat from the

> chaff. i definitely cannot do Her Work alone. We need more

> instruments like you and others to reach the critical mass sooner.

>

> Jai Shri Mataji,

>

>

> jagbir

>

>

> -------------------------------

>

> " On this point I have to say a few words. It's important. I have

to

> make a few points about the spontaneity aspect, which is quite

> interesting – the way people think spontaneity works.

>

> For example, with so many people, it's mostly the ego part, which

> says: " this is spontaneous " . Especially the very old Sahaja Yogis

> think they are authorities on spontaneity. Like we had some land

in

> Vaitharna. So one of the older ones went there and he said, " This

> land is vibrating, and this land is not vibrating. " So everybody

> accepted that: " Alright, alright, alright. " Then he said: " In this

> part of the land nobody should eat their food. " From where does

this

> knowledge come? I mean, eating food is not a sin, is it? As if it

> would be a sin, if you were eating food there!

>

> But religiously they'll follow: " A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H .... down

> to ....Z. " Then, again: " A, B, C.... " `Sahaja' Yoga has gone to

> such an extent, that I start thinking: " Now they have become

another

> group of fanatic Sahaja Yogis.... " But fanaticism is against

Sahaja

> Yoga. Absolutely.

>

> Now they'll ask, " How many times should we say this mantra? " Then

I

> say, " Zero times. " .... (Laughter) " How many drops of `ghee' should

> we put in our noses? Then I say, " A full jug. " .... (Laughter) " Oh,

I

> should not have gone from the left side, I should have gone from

the

> right side. " Then I would say, " just jump up, where you are. " ....

> (Laughter) You have to be like children. But people's ideas are so

> settled down in Sahaja Yoga, (even) now – in so few years. But

your

> ideas should not settle down. It's not 'sahaj'.... it's not

> spontaneous. " If you do it this way, then it is wrong. That way,

> then it's wrong " . Nothing of the kind. Nothing should be

> (theoretically) " wrong " for you people. If you do anything really

> wrong, your vibrations will be lost, finished. So, what is there

to

> be so cautious about?

>

> Like somebody said: " I don't want to look at this cigarette. " I

> said: " Why? " " Even looking at it is sinful! " he said. I

said: " When

> you look at it, what happens? " " Then I feel like smoking. " So I

> said: " Then you'd better smoke once and for all! "

(Laughter)....

> Or they'll say: " I cannot hold a wine bottle in my

> hand. " " Why? " " No, holding the wine bottle is sinful. " I mean,

you

> can swim in wine, (if you really want to)! (Laughter)

>

> So, this kind of understanding (and discrimination) should be

there.

> Though I have always said: " If I say one thing, you tend to cling

on

> to it (exclusively), so I always say the other side of it too. " So

> don't " stick on " to anything. Sahaja Yoga is not for " sticking on "

> to something. For example, somebody who had learnt certain lessons

> about Sahaja Yoga at the beginning, say certain mantras that they

> had learnt, and still today they are sticking on to the same

stage.

> No, no, no, no! You have to go ahead. (Sahaja Yoga is a process of

> growth), just a staircase (a series of steps for going up ever

> higher). So, don't get stuck at a particular point. We have had so

> many such cases here. People get really `out-worn', as they say,

> (like a coat you should have discarded ages ago). They'll go on

> telling you so many nonsensical ideas that they learnt at the

> beginning: " You see, you do like this, then this happens, etc. "

>

> First of all: Don't give ideas to others. That's the thing. If you

> decide: " We won't give ideas about what is wrong with the other

> person, " half of your job is done. Because in reality you don't

have

> to do any job – just as I don't.

>

> People have become so fanatical in their `knowledge' that even to

> new people they'll say: " You are a bhoot! " And, instead of trying

to

> help them, they'll say: " let them get on with it. " I get reports

> from others, who say: " Your Sahaja Yogis are wicked people,

because

> they say to people: `You are evil.' `You are possessed.' `You are

> this, you are that.' – They are very wicked people. " .... I'm

really

> shocked to hear that about Sahaja Yogis. How can they be wicked

and,

> for example, if somebody is suffering from something and they

`phone

> and tell them: " Oh, you'd better get on with it, it is good for

> you. " That's not the way.

>

> We have to be not only humble, but very tactful and sweet to new

> people, if you want more people to come in. But, if you have

decided

> not to have any more – because then we'd have to put up another

> marquee – then I have nothing more to say. But, if you want others

> to come in, then it's important that you talk to them in a very

> sweet and beautiful language, in a way they'll understand.

Rudeness,

> arrogance and showing off are of no use.

>

> One should understand: `Sahaja Yoga' is when you are in complete

> enjoyment about it, when you are totally immersed in that

> temperament.

>

> Where is the time to remember how many times you ought to give

> a 'bandhan' to yourself? What is the need to give a `bandhan' to

> yourself? Now, it's all a joke for you. Or it should be. A little

> child has to suck the milk from the bottle all right, because it

has

> no teeth. But what about you people having that kind of a baby

> thing? This is very childish and shows no growth at all.

>

> Sahaja Yogis must grow within. There should no longer be anyone

> regarded as `immature' Sahaja Yogis. I would say a `mature Sahaja

> Yogi' is one who can combine many, many different things together,

> (who is flexible and discriminating), but with all the beautiful,

> fine dividing lines, (the `maryadas',) maintained. (You must

> be 'diplomatic, with an adaptable and varied response according to

> the situation).

>

> But you cannot do it the other way round. For example, if you say,

> (regardless of the situation): " Now I'll be sweet and then I'll be

> angry, now I'll be like this, then I'll be like that. " It will be

a

> hotch-potch. It's a funny personality you will be. Suddenly you

get

> angry, like this and then like that. People will think you are

> doing " Bharata Natyam " (classical dance) or something, like that –

> showing all your moods! In five minutes you are showing ten

> different moods (regardless of the needs of the moment).

>

> This flexible response comes from growth within you. So we'll have

> to have our growth. And for our growth, let us be silent within.

Let

> us not react to others: " This person is this, that person is

that. "

> What about yourself? "

>

> And then there are other things you do. For example, I tell

somebody

> that he has a certain problem. So, that person immediately goes to

a

> second person: " You see, Mother told me that you too have this

> problem, you'd better look after it. " I didn't tell that person. I

> told you. Keep it to yourself.

>

> So.... " Mother Says " is to be given up. Absolutely. If Mother has

> to " say " , She'll say it. Why should you communicate, why should

you

> say? I never asked you to say that to others!

>

> Understanding Sahaja Yoga is very simple, extremely simple, when

you

> understand one thing: You have to have your Innocence

intact. " Now,

> how can we get to Innocence? " people will say. How to get to

> Innocence is a vicious circle. How to get to Innocence? We have to

> get to Innocence: through what? Your ego or superego? How will you

> get to Innocence?….

>

> (Shri Mataji interrupts Her talk and addresses some Sahaja Yogis

who

> are mechanically raising their Kundalinis, just as they've

> been 'told' to do. " Mother says…. " Don't raise your Kundalinis!

I

> mean, I'm sitting just here before you, and yet people are doing

> that. What's this? I'm sitting here and so your Kundalinis are

> (spontaneously) up there, at the top of your head. What are you

> raising?)

>

> Now, `how to manage to get to your Innocence?' is the problem.

Very

> simple it is. In the beginning I said: " Let your Guru reside in

your

> heart. " And yet, people ask: " How can we manage? " Why are they

> asking such a simple question? Let MOTHER manage. " Mother is

> managing me. " Keep it at that, and your right side will clear.

Your

> left side will clear when you say, " Nobody can manage me, but

Mother

> can manage me! " The two things together. Then things will work

out.

> Thank God you have somebody like Me sitting here so that you can

say

> that (with such confidence). Think of those who never had anyone

to

> tell them or to be in the presence of one who could say, " I can

> manage this " , or " You can manage that. " That's how you can balance

> yourself. (i.e. By saying both: " Nobody can manage me, " for the

left

> side and: " Mother can manage me, " for the right side).

>

> Allow your Kundalini to grow. Everything works out.

>

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> Guru Puja, Shudy Camps Park House

> 12 July, 1987

>