Puri priests up in arms against ISKCON The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy

[Vigraha]

Puri priests up in arms against ISKCON

 

Puri priests up in arms against ISKCON Ratha Yatra dates burn an effigy of the Founder/Acarya

The priests at Jagannath Temple here are again up in arms against the International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), which, despite facing flak from different quarters last year, is again likely to celebrate Rath Yatra on different dates at various places in the country.

A number of priests and cultural enthusiasts under the banner of Sri Jagannath Sena, a local cultural outfit, staged a demonstration in front of the world famous 12th century shrine on Tuesday protesting against the proposed untimely celebration of annual Rath Yatra by ISKCON authorities at different places, including New Delhi and Ludhiana. The angry priests even burnt the effigy of Srila Prabhupada, the Founder/Acharya of ISKCON. ISKCON is likely to observe Rath Yatra at different places in next couple of months, said some of the agitating priests.

“Time and again the ISKCON society is flouting our tradition and norms. Last year too they did not pay heed to our protests and went ahead with celebrating Rath Yatra on different dates at various places in the country,” said Priyadarshan Pattanaik, the national convener of the Sena.

“Even though Jagannath temples exist in every nook and cranny of the world, the Jagannath Temple at Puri is the real abode of Jagannath. And going by the age-old tradition, the annual Rath Yatra of the Lord is observed on asadha sukla dwitiya that falls in June and July in the Gregorian calendar,” Pattanaik maintained.

Expressing solidarity with the priests, Mayapurchandra dasa, a former ISKCON devotee from Italy said the Krishna followers should abide by the precept of Hindu religion and calendar. ” ISKCON should celebrate Rath Yatra on the same day as observed here. But burning the effigy of Prabhupada is condemnable,” Mayapurchandra said.

Priests reproached the Jagannath Temple administration for doing little to stop such practices by ISKCON. “The shrine authorities last time had promised to take legal action against the ISKCON authorities after the latter underplayed the warnings made by the former. But the Jagannath temple officials turned back from that promise. This bolstered ISKCON to observe Rath Yatra once again on different dates,” said an agitating priest, Somnath Khuntia.

Surprisingly, the temple Chief Administrator, Sailendra Narayan Sarangi, parried the issue saying “I have no idea about it”. He even did not reply whether he will take up the matter again with the ISKCON authorities. Temple PRO Laxmidhar Pujapanda said the Gajapati Dibyasingha Deb requested the ISKCON body to celebrate Rath Yatra on the same date, akin to Puri.

We encourage ISKCON leaders, all disciples and followers of Srila Prabhupada to immediately express their outrage via petitions and personal complaints to Puri Temple administrators and officials. Please direct your letters, faxes and phone calls to the following individuals.

Gajapati Maharaja Dibyasingha Deb Chairman, Sri Jagannath Temple Managing Committee Sri Nahar, Puri 752001 Phone 1: 91-674-2511166 Phone 2: 91-6752-222829 Fax: 91-674-513842

E-mail: gajapati@dte.vsnl.net.in Mr. Suresh Chandra Mohapatra, IAS Working Chairman Shri Jagannath Temple Office, Puri Phone 1: 91-6752-223002 Phone 2: 91-6752-222002 E-mail: jagannath@ori.nic.in

Mr. Bhaskar Jyoti Sarma, IAS Collector & Deputy Chief Administrator Shri Jagannath Temple Office, Puri. Phone (Office): 91-6752-222033 Phone (Residence): 91-6752-222034 Fax: 91-6752-223939 E-mail: dmpuri@ori.nic.in

Sailendra Narayan Sarangi Chief Administrator, Jagannatha Puri Temple E-mail: sarangis@ias.nic.in

In a related story from ‘The Hindu’:

Protest against proposed car festival by ISKCON

Staff Reporter, THE HINDU

Puri: A number of servitors of Jagannath Temple and cultural enthusiasts of Puri on Tuesday took to the street protesting the proposed car festival to be organised by International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) in New Delhi on November 23.

They were enraged over untimely celebration of the festival. Servitors burnt effigy of Srila Prabhupada, the founder acharya of ISKCON. Shouting slogans against the organisers, these servitors threatened not to allow the ISKCON followers to Puri.

“Ratha Yatra is usually celebrated in the month of June and July. Since Puri is the real abode of Lord Jagannath, the festival timing should be followed by everyone in and outside the State. So celebrating Ratha Yatra on an unscheduled date is anti-Hindu,” said Priyadarshan Patnaik, national convenor of Jagannath Sena, a local outfit.

The State government and the Jagannath Temple Administration (JTA) should take action against ISKCON authorities and prevent organisers at New Delhi from celebrating the Rath Yatra. Reacting to the development JTA’s public relation officer Laxmidhar Pujapanda said Dibyasingh Dev, scion of Puri Royal family, had requested other State government not to allow celebration of Car Festival on any unscheduled date. Despite the protest last year, ISKCON had celebrated the car festival in New Delhi. It had evoked sharp reactions among servitors and other die-hard followers of Jagannath cult.

However, Bhubaneswar unit of ISKCON had disassociated from the whole controversy. Chief of ISKCON, Bhubaneswar Golak Mohapatra said, “we are not part of the decision taken at New Delhi. We will follow the rituals of Jagannath Temple at Puri. We have even passed a resolution to this effect.”

Dear Gajapati Maharaja Dibyasingha Deb,

My respects to you. Jaya Jagannatha!

My name is Danavir Goswami, a member of ISKCON and disciple of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

You may recall that a few years ago I organized the tour of Druze leaders that journeyed from Israel to Jagannatha Puri to meet you. They enjoyed their visit very much.

I have heard that under your jurisdiction an effigy of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was recently burned by those claiming to be followers of Lord Jagannatha. I find it almost unbelievable.

Millions of persons around the world, such as myself, had never heard of Lord Jagannatha before Srila Prabhupada and his ISKCON movement brought the Rathayatra Chariot festivals to our cities. Now we worship Lord Jagannatha, Baladeva and Subhadra with great devotion and love.

Srila Prabhupada was a great devotee of Lord Jagannatha in modern history—how then could such a saintly person’s image be defamed in Puri itself?

I do not suspect that you were a party to the effigy burning, however since this great atrocity has taken place under your supervision, I urge you to use your powers to the fullest extent to punish those who are responsible for the act. The world awaits your decision and action so that this heinous act is rectified.

May Lord Jagannatha guide you and empower you to take the correct action in this matter. I will be very thankful to hear it and see it so that such a demoniac action is never performed again in Jagannatha Puri.

Wishing you well,

Danavir Goswami

(Rupanuga Vedic College Inaugural President)

Rupanuga Vedic College/Polestar

5201 Paseo, Kansas City, Missouri 64110

Tel: (407)413-9406, Fax: (816) 924-5640, Mob: (407) 407-575-7187

E-mail: danavir.goswami@pamho.net Website: www.rvc.edu

Skype: DanavirGoswami

Hare Krsna,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.

In addition to the above numbers i have got the mobile number of the secretary of Gajapati Maharaj, Mr. Mohanty (00 91 94337315541). I called him up and showed my displeasure of whatever happened in Puri. You can call him up also. He also gave the fax number of the committee office (91 6752 220100). You can additionally fax on this number also apart from the above numbers.

Time to rise for Prabhupada.

your lowly servant,

vibhava krsna das.

by vibhavakrsna das on November 15th, 2008

This can be turned into a positive opportunity to glorify Srila Prabhupada. If we organize a large group of devotees from all over India to travel to Jagganath Puri and have continuous Hari Nam it would surely attract attention of the media. Also leading life members could approach the media as well a their local politicians to protest this affront to Srila Prabhupada and his Iskcon movement.

I wish I was there in India to help. Don’t let this opportunity pass to make everyone know that we are all loyal to Srila Prabhupada and won’t tolerate this insult to our Founder Acarya

Imagine if an effigy of the prophet Mohammad was burned. What kind of reaction would we expect from his followers?

 

The following is by Pusta Krishna das

Dear Suresh Chandra Mahapatra, Dandavats. I was very saddened to hear the envious behaviour of some of the pandas which led to the burning of the form of His DIvine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad in front of the Jagannath Temple.

 

By every standard, he was Lord Nityananda and Lord Chaitanya-devas personal emissary in this era of the Kali Yuga. The acts of your underlings therefore mark a most regrettable time. We know that Sri Jagannath will protect His beloved bhaktas.

 

Such position is beyond appointment by any other people, who might profess closeness or proximity to the absolute Truth. The Truth rather will descend in His own way, at His own time, and cannot be stopped by any type of human politics.

Thus, I expect a rather severe reaction to come to those unfortunate souls who have participated in these acts, or who have supported them passively. It is the end of an era of dignity for the sevaites of the Holy Jagannath Temple in Puri.

 

Throughout the world, the glories of Lord Jagannath have been proclaimed by ISKCON through the will of Srila Prabhupad. The first Rathayatra in the west was in San Francisco Golden Gate Park in 1967 and has taken place each year since then. I participated in the first Rathayatra in South Africa, and in many similar celebrations throughout the world.

 

I led the kirtan of the Hare Krishna Mahamantra in July 1976 when the first Rathayatra went down the Fifth Avenue in New York City with Srila Prabhupad present which proclaimed the grand success of Srila Prabhupad’s preaching work in the West.

Lord Jagannath has graced Trafalgar Square in London and every major venue in the world. How can the pandas fail to see how the millions of Krishna bhaktas throughout the world have served Lord Jagannath so sweetly, affectionately, and sincerely?

 

Never mind what day of the year, northern or southern hemisphere… how amazing all of this is by the grace of Srila Prabhupad! Who could fail to appreciate this? Only a stone-hearted person, that is who. Woe unto the misguided? Now, once one has offended a great vaishnava, there is only one way to amend this state, as exemplified by the example of Durvasa Muni and Ambarish Maharaj in the Puranas.

One must go to the offended person and beg his forgiveness. Since Srila Prabhupad is now in Goloka Vrindaban with Sri Sri Radha Krishna, Baladeva and the eternal family of Sri Krishna, I suggest the final method for purging of false pride from the pandas and the faithful servitors of Lord Jagannath. Open the doors of the Jagannath Temple once and for all to bhaktas and visitors from around the world.

 

Allow Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s family of devotee’s entry to have darshan of Lord Jagannath, Subhadra, and Baladeva. This can be the only way to appease His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, and to alleviate the envy that has overwhelmed the hearts of many pandas. This is no game. The very survival of devotion of these pandas rests upon this decision… otherwise they are doomed to be chased by Sri Sudarshan Chakra of Lord VIshnu, and will not be able to hide in any place, even Vaikuntha.

Otherwise, the world family of devotees must consider you and your fellow pandas as being quite irrelevant and a disturbance to the progressive path of bhakti.

 

We are not dependent upon entry into the divine darshan hall of Sri Jagannath-deva for our bhakti to proceed, as we are all followers of the mood of Sri Chaitanyadeva who taught that service in separation is superior to union. Rather, the bhakti creeper of the pandas is now at risk of being cut-off thoroughly by maha-vaishnava-aparadha.

The prayers of such pandas cannot reach to Lord Jagannath Who will be deaf to such blasphemy, and the chanting to and decoration of the Lord’s form will not please such Lord who claims that there is no one more dear in this world than one who teaches saranagati to the bhaktas… His Divine Grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad is foremost amongst such contemporaries.

 

The choice is yours, bu t we shall carry on with our service to Sri Sri Guru Gauranga regardless of any decision by the panda sevaites of Sri Jagannath Temple. Rather, your devotion and its receipt by the Lord is at risk.

With respect for your position,

Pusta Krishna das Physician, Surgeon, and bhakta

 

The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy and arrogance!

 

What’s going on is obvious, the Puri Temple devotees and managers feel that ISKCON is taking over what they believe if their festival of Ratha-yatra. they are probably fearful that Lord Jagannath will be made more famous by ISKCON than their Puri festival (well, that already happened thanks to the humble causeless mercy of Srila Prabhupada.

To understand how the Puri pujaris and managers felt about the 'new ISKCON kid on the block', just look at some ISKCON Temples reaction when Gaudiya math Temples started in there area, some ISKCON Temples even 'patented' the name Hare Krishna so the Gaudiya math could not use the term 'Hare Krishnas'

The whole thing stinks of hypocrisy and arrogance!

 

I believe Bhakta Bob summed it all up 45 years ago, 'The times ar achanging'

The Puri Preists should be honoured ISKCON is spreading the glorious of Lord Jaganath and ISKCON should be honoured that the Gaudia math is spreading in the West because that is ALSO Srila Prabhupada's credit

[radha_das]

According to hindu calander, we must held every festival on the exact date and time which is mentioned in the scriptures.

 

In Puri every year, Temple organizes Jaggannath Rathyatra on the very particular day and time.

 

According to ISKCON members and gurus Rathyatra is the only chance when they do get together and collect fund on the name of KC.

 

Why dont you (ISKCON people) celebrate Janmastami any other day? Why dont you celebrate holi or diwali or Radhastami any other day? Why dont you celebrate Prabhupad disappearance thru out the year in the various cities?

Infact, once I personally went to Watford temple in UK. and ISKCON temple was celebrating Dusherra 5 days later. When I asked them. they said, "this time Dusheera came on working day. Not many people would have come, so we changed the date"

Are you runing the Temple of Lord? Where is the Gaudiya Mood (Bhaav)? If you guys say, you are the followers of SIX Goswamis and Seven Temples, do anyone from there break the rules? Temple should take care His Lord first because it is HIS residence. You are not allowed to changethe dates because devotees wont participate in the festival.

You guys are actually ruining our culture on the name of KC. You guys should read lawbooks of our Sanatan Dharma. If your Prabhupad did anything, it doesnt mean we should also follow him and change our scriptures' quotations and rules. He(prabhupad) was only the guru not the GOD.

 

Puri priests are right with their points. They are not stopping you. They just want you to celebrate Rathyatra on the same day and time (according to the scriptures)

[krisvyas]

Is "weekend" really the logic for the Rathayatra celebaration?

 

Did prabhupada really suggest to do the Rathayatra on different week ends in different parts of the world?

 

Looks like more of a convenience than a principle

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Today their complaint is ISKCON holds ratha yatra on the wrong day. Next their complaint will be that there should only be Panda priests serving Jagannatha in ISKCON temples, and untouchables shouldnt be allowed to have His darshan, as is "Jagannatha culture".

 

The fact is they are simply irrelevant people. They are best simply ignored.

 

Further, it should be noted that even India does not have a universal calendar. Different states celebrate festivals on different days, based on different calendars. The Kartik month of North India is one month before the Kartik month of south India. There are even differences in the calendars of Vaishnavas and Shaivites, and Sri Vaishnavas and north Indian vaishnavas.

 

So this illusion that there is an exact perfect date for all of India (what to speak of the world) is false.

 

ISKCON does not follow "panda culture" and ISKCON has no interest in following their culture in the future. ISKCON is the organization that has spread the worship of Lord Jagannatha throughout the world. They really don't need advice and guidance from ritualistic priests who have abused their powers for hundreds of years and have destroyed Hinduism (through untouchability, sati, devadasi, etc.)

 

In summary, anyone who thinks there is something called a "Hindu calendar" needs to educate themselves about the various calendars of India and their histories.

[Kulapavana]

Iskcon devotees think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha!

Puri temple priests think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha!

 

Genuine competition of the eager servants or just an ego trip? Hard to tell... we will judge by the results. Will the service increase? Will more people be inspired to serve Lord Jagannatha?

 

Lord Caitanya did not organize harinama protests to get Haridasa Thakura admitted to the Puri Temple - He praised Thakura's humility. Maybe that is the real lesson: humility. Iskcon very often comes across as arrogant. Maybe this is another lesson from Krsna to teach us more humility. IMHO Iskcon leaders should sit down with the Puri pandas and work out a mutually acceptable compromise. Just like Lord Chaitanya an Kazi. He convinced Kazi with His humility, thoughtfulnes, wisdom, and kindness. It is not just a story - it is an instruction to be followed by all His followers.

 

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[Amlesh]

 

Iskcon devotees think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha!

Puri temple priests think: We are better servants of Lord Jagannatha!

 

Genuine competition of the eager servants or just an ego trip? Hard to tell... we will judge by the results. Will the service increase? Will more people be inspired to serve Lord Jagannatha?

 

Lord Caitanya did not organize harinama protests to get Haridasa Thakura admitted to the Puri Temple - He praised Thakura's humility. Maybe that is the real lesson: humility. Iskcon very often comes across as arrogant. Maybe this is another lesson from Krsna to teach us more humility. IMHO Iskcon leaders should sit down with the Puri pandas and work out a mutually acceptable compromise. Just like Lord Chaitanya an Kazi. He convinced Kazi with His humility, thoughtfulnes, wisdom, and kindness. It is not just a story - it is an instruction to be followed by all His followers.

 

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Words of Wisdom.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Iskcon very often comes across as arrogant. Maybe this is another lesson from Krsna to teach us more humility. IMHO Iskcon leaders should sit down with the Puri pandas and work out a mutually acceptable compromise.

I don't see burning the image of a saint as a lesson from Krishna to make us tolerate that offense. In fact I really dont consider humility to be the tolerance of a saints image being burnt. Humilty is defined differently in the scriptures I read, and duty is likewise defined differently. Tolerating offenses to others is really the opposite of humilty, it is more like cowardice, and by remaining silent we become guilty of that offense.

 

If someone comes and beats your neighbhor with a stick, its pretty easy to "tolerate" that and hide, the hard thing is to stand up and help that person.

 

The Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu never states that we should become humble by tolerating offenses to our saints.

 

In fact in the history of India, this is the first time the image of a saint has ever been burnt. It has never happened in the history. What this shows is that Kali Yuga has managed to increase its influence on the world.

[Kulapavana]

 

I don't see burning the image of a saint as a lesson from Krishna to make us tolerate that offense. In fact I really dont consider humility to be the tolerance of a saints image being burnt. Humilty is defined differently in the scriptures I read, and duty is likewise defined differently. Tolerating offenses to others is really the opposite of humilty, it is more like cowardice, and by remaining silent we become guilty of that offense.

 

 

So what would you do? Hang someone? Remember the story of Jagai and Madhai?

 

In the scriptures you can find verses to justify all kinds of responses in this situation, but ultimately you have to do what is most likely to generate a beneficial outcome.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Since you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava, you should follow Rupa Goswami's advice in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu regarding what to do when a Vaishnava is offended. He gives several options based on our qualifications and abilities, none of which are "tolerate the offense to a Vaishnava and consider it a lesson in humility from Lord Krishna."

 

Your memory of the story of Jagai and Madhai seems to be a little faulty. The story is specifically about an offense to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offense and consider it a lesson in humilty fom Lord Krishna". Rather Lord Caitanya wanted to punish the offenders severely. Only the person who is offended has the right to forgive the offender. None of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada. It is not within our rights to tolerate it, forgive them for it, or remain humble about it. Why? Because it wasnt an offense to us. We can only tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offenses. We have no right to tolerate someone else's sufferings, hardships or offenses.

[Amlesh]

 

Since you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava, you should follow Rupa Goswami's advice in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu regarding what to do when a Vaishnava is offended. He gives several options based on our qualifications and abilities, none of which are "tolerate the offense to a Vaishnava and consider it a lesson in humility from Lord Krishna."

 

Your memory of the story of Jagai and Madhai seems to be a little faulty. The story is specifically about an offense to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offense and consider it a lesson in humilty fom Lord Krishna". Rather Lord Caitanya wanted to punish the offenders severely. Only the person who is offended has the right to forgive the offender. None of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada. It is not within our rights to tolerate it, forgive them for it, or remain humble about it. Why? Because it wasnt an offense to us. We can only tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offenses. We have no right to tolerate someone else's sufferings, hardships or offenses.

I guess, Jahnava is right.

The only thing however one need to take care of is the approach to remedy such issues.

If such thing is tolerated now, then it can become a habitual issue and seeing my Guru humiliated as such, pains me.

Though I myself is against punishing but I know that more diplomatic and human approach are there to stop such narrow thinking and practice.

However, it does not really mean that Iskcon is all WHITE in that issue...

 

The preoccupying stuff is respect for the great seers of God who once graced this Earth... remember, they don't come again these people for us to beg him pardon nor it is easy to go there to seek the same.

 

Jai Sri Ram.

[Kulapavana]

 

Your memory of the story of Jagai and Madhai seems to be a little faulty. The story is specifically about an offense to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offense and consider it a lesson in humilty fom Lord Krishna". Rather Lord Caitanya wanted to punish the offenders severely. Only the person who is offended has the right to forgive the offender.

 

I thought that the central teaching of this story was that Lord Caitanya did not appear in order to punish the wicked, but to show them mercy. That is what adi-guru Lord Nityananda was teaching.

 

I did not say anywhere that such offenses should be tolerated without doing anything about it. But WHAT we do about it is a measure of our intelligence and spiritual vision. What I suggested is one of the appropriate actions from BRS: to sit down with an offender and convince them of their error in judgement.

[theist]

Convince the offender he is wrong by philosophy and reason. Failing that cut his tongue out. Can't do that then leave the presence of such offenders running with hands over your ears.

 

It's 'pie in the sky' to think you can convince such religious fanatics of any mistake they may make.

 

Can't cut out their tongues or chop off their hands or head either.

 

So that leaves staying away from them. Boycott the Puri temple. Of course there will be those idiots that think Lord Jagannatha is more present in that temple than anywere else and tolerating such a mammoth offense to His devotee is worth it to try and get in there. May their spiritual quest 'Rest in Peace'.

[theist]

.

[theist]

TRANSLATION SB 4.4.17

Satī continued: If one hears an irresponsible person blaspheme the master and controller of religion, one should block his ears and go away if unable to punish him. But if one is able to kill, then one should by force cut out the blasphemer’s tongue and kill the offender, and after that one should give up his own life.

 

PURPORT

The argument offered by Satī is that a person who vilifies a great personality is the lowest of all creatures. But, by the same argument, Dakṣa could also defend himself by saying that since he was a Prajāpati, the master of many living creatures and one of the great officers of the great universal affairs, his position was so exalted that Satī should accept his good qualities instead of vilifying him. The answer to that argument is that Satī was not vilifying but defending. If possible she should have cut out Dakṣa’s tongue because he blasphemed Lord Śiva. In other words, since Lord Śiva is the protector of religion, a person who vilifies him should be killed at once, and after killing such a person, one should give up one’s life. That is the process, but because Dakṣa happened to be the father of Satī, she decided not to kill him but to give up her own life in order to compensate for the great sin she had committed by hearing blasphemy of Lord Śiva. The instruction set forth here in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that one should not tolerate at any cost the activities of a person who vilifies or blasphemes an authority. If one is a brāhmaṇa he should not give up his body because by doing so he would be responsible for killing a brāhmaṇa; therefore a brāhmaṇa should leave the place or block his ears so that he will not hear the blasphemy. If one happens to be a kṣatriya he has the power to punish any man; therefore a kṣatriya should at once cut out the tongue of the vilifier and kill him. But as far as the vaiśyas and śūdras are concerned, they should immediately give up their bodies. Satī decided to give up her body because she thought herself to be among the śūdras and vaiśyas. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (9.32), striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ. Women, laborers and the mercantile class are on the same level. Thus since it is recommended that vaiśyas and śūdras should immediately give up their bodies upon hearing blasphemy of an exalted person like Lord Śiva, she decided to give up her life.

[Kulapavana]

 

It's 'pie in the sky' to think you can convince such religious fanatics of any mistake they may make.

 

 

Like our movement does not have them (mistakes and fanatics)? Should people give up trying to reason with us because of that?

 

That is why the rational people should prevail by starting proper conflict resolution as soon as possible. A lot of people think a compromise is needed.

[krisvyas]

what is the reason ISKON celebrates the ratha yatra on different dates

 

is there any philosophical or religious or ISKON interpretation on following a different schedule

 

 

 

sv

[theist]

 

what is the reason ISKON celebrates the ratha yatra on different dates

 

is there any philosophical or religious or ISKON interpretation on following a different schedule

 

 

 

sv

 

A similar question is who appointed the Puri priests as sole authorities on the date for Ratha Yatra? Why exactly do they celebrate on the dates they do? Is it just traditon or is there some actual spiritual reasoning behind their objections?

[Deathless]

It seems to me that a truly spiritual group of people would not care on what day God is celebrated, as long as God is being celebrated. What a shame that these people cannot see beyond their sectarian and cultural differences.

[Deathless]

it is recommended that vaiśyas and śūdras should immediately give up their bodies upon hearing blasphemy of an exalted person like Lord Śiva

What a terrible suggestion!

[theist]

 

It seems to me that a truly spiritual group of people would not care on what day God is celebrated, as long as God is being celebrated. What a shame that these people cannot see beyond their sectarian and cultural differences.

 

Aumen

[theist]

 

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist

it is recommended that vaiśyas and śūdras should immediately give up their bodies upon hearing blasphemy of an exalted person like Lord Śiva

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> What a terrible suggestion!

 

Hearing vaisnava apardha`is far more terrible then death, Deathless.

 

Perhaps read the entire narrative of Sati quitting her body in the fourth canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam and see Prabhupada's comment in proper context then form your opinion.

[Xochitl]

 

Hearing vaisnava apardha`is far more terrible then death, Deathless.

 

Perhaps read the entire narrative of Sati quitting her body in the fourth canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam and see Prabhupada's comment in proper context then form your opinion.

I totally agree with you, unfortunately we aren't so advanced as to give up our lives and then there are others who think "giving up one's life" is irrelevant to our time. What I would like to say is this, why are the Puri pandas bullying ISKCON? We don't tell them what to do and when. I understand that there is a scriptural reference in regards to Ratha Yatra celebration, but I don't think that celebrations on separate dates should be regarded as "anti-Hindu" especially in India. What I see at these festivals are extremely fortunate souls taking Lord Jagannath's darshan, honoring prasadam and hearing His glorification; in most cases(especially in the West) these fortunate souls wouldn't otherwise be privy to any of these engagements. Everyone should appreciate this fact especially ISKCON devotees, so when anyone tries to criticize or reprimand us for such a minor offense to the Lord(if we can even call it that) we can easily and quickly neglect them. I don't think we should give these kinds of terrorists any power over us, simply because they are sticklers for rules. I firmly believe that Lord Jagannath is present in the western world just as much as, if not more than, Puri Dham. Otherwise, why would the Supreme Lord of the Universe make Himself visible in the West? Still to this day, when I hear or read the narration of Lord Jagannath's appearance in the west I get goosebumps. The Lord of the Universe, Sri Jagannath came all the way from Puri to America only by the love of His pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada and there is nothing they can do about it!

[theist]

They burned Srila Prabhupada in effigy. That means if his "physical" body were present they would have burned that. They are demons and there is no force that could case me to attend a puja to Lord Jagannatha conducted by them.

 

There is no need for westerners to try and force their presence upon them and enter their temple. Lord Jagannaha means Lord of the universe. He is present everywhere already.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Since you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava, you should follow Rupa Goswami's advice in Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu regarding what to do when a Vaishnava is offended. He gives several options based on our qualifications and abilities, none of which are "tolerate the offense to a Vaishnava and consider it a lesson in humility from Lord Krishna."

 

Your memory of the story of Jagai and Madhai seems to be a little faulty. The story is specifically about an offense to a Vaishnava, and Lord Caitanya's response was not to "tolerate that offense and consider it a lesson in humilty fom Lord Krishna". Rather Lord Caitanya wanted to punish the offenders severely. Only the person who is offended has the right to forgive the offender. None of us have the right to forgive the offenders who have offended Srila Prabhupada. It is not within our rights to tolerate it, forgive them for it, or remain humble about it. Why? Because it wasnt an offense to us. We can only tolerate our own sufferings, hardships and offenses. We have no right to tolerate someone else's sufferings, hardships or offenses.

 

You understanding greatly inspire me to tell my deep supressed secrets. As the 12th initiated disciple of Prabhupada in meathead paradise (Australia) four years before you were born.

Your understanding is brilliant and you are way more advanced than so many Prabhupada disciples including me. Ramai Swami who at one point I greatly loved (wanted to serve) but he and the fools like Subabhati, treated me so coldly impersonally that I want to kill myself, but instead I JUST Walked AWAY.

Frankly l loved originally loved Ranai Swami in a devotional way, but to him I was just porn and a object to be patronized and treated as a no body that greatly effected my self esteem

Abimanu dasa and Sri Prahlad I greatly admired and even though we did some of the most well known preaching on Australian Television, radio and newspapers, my mental illness, low self esteem and patronizing treatment fro devotee like RAMAI, and Sabo, did not really help.

Here I was in charge of a bunch of Gurukuli kids and just allowed free rain.

They all new my short comings, but still allowed things to go on saying ‘no-one can do what you do’

What I’m about to write here is tho first time I have faced something that happened to me in 1972, Woke up one mooring and an American devote, very well known, was orally interfering with me. It freaked me out and only through recent psychiatric therapy was I able to face that I had considered an advanced devotee personal servant of Prabhupada to do such a thing.

Psychologically this greatly scared me and I only told one devotee, whom this American devotee had also did the same thing to, D sometime later committed suicide due to being so embarrassed about what had happened. I was 18 (joined at 17) at the time and D***** was only 15, Prabhupada’s youngest initiate.

Now you can all laugh at my honesty that screwed my devotional life up with confusion – we were only kids back then

[Deathless]

 

Hearing vaisnava apardha`is far more terrible then death, Deathless.

 

Perhaps read the entire narrative of Sati quitting her body in the fourth canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam and see Prabhupada's comment in proper context then form your opinion.

What does Sati Devi dying for her husband have to do with Vaishyas and Shudras needing to kill themselves upon hearing an offense against one of Vishnu's worshipers? I get that you believe Shiva is a Vaishnava, and Sati Devi killed herself upon hearing him insulted, but I don't think Shiva or Vishnu want Vaishyas and Shudras to kill themselves when they happen to be in the vicinity of someone insulting a Vaishnava's choice of wardrobe or a goofy haircut.