listening to the holy name from the lips of mayavadis

[Dark Warrior 0]

So what? Not everybody accepts Sri Chaitanya, in case you haven't noticed. And just to clarify, he is completely wrong here.

 

Learn sastra, and decide who speaks the truth. Blindly quoting translation after translation is all that you and Theist are capable of.

[cbrahma 0]

 

So what? Not everybody accepts Sri Chaitanya, in case you haven't noticed. And just to clarify, he is completely wrong here.

 

Learn sastra, and decide who speaks the truth. Blindly quoting translation after translation is all that you and Theist are capable of.

 

Your arrogance runs roughshod even over the Golden Avatar. Nice.

The leopard shows his spots.

[Dark Warrior 0]

Um, in case you haven't noticed, Sri Vaishnavas, Madhvas and associated sects do not consider Sri Chaitanya as an avatar of Krishna, or Achintya Bheda Abheda as true. We simply regard him as just another Vaishnava devotee.

 

Hopelessly behind, aren't you?

[cbrahma 0]

 

Um, in case you haven't noticed, Sri Vaishnavas, Madhvas and associated sects do not consider Sri Chaitanya as an avatar of Krishna, or Achintya Bheda Abheda as true. We simply regard him as just another Vaishnava devotee.

 

Hopelessly behind, aren't you?

 

My comment stands. - Stepping over the Golden Avatar - nice.

[Dark Warrior 0]

Haha..still don't understand? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is not the 'golden avatar' for Sri Vaishnavas or Tattvavadis. He was simply a normal Krishna devotee. Only Gaudiyas call him an avatar.

 

There are 6 different schools of thought in Vaishnavism. Sri Chaitanya's school is just one of those 6. No Sri Vaishnava will ever agree to a Gaudiya's views.

 

For instance, I respect Madhva. But he and Sri Ramanuja differed on Ananda Taratamya. I do not accept Madhva's view here. That's all.

 

cBrahma's incompetence and lack of comprehension is evident here.

[cbrahma 0]

 

Haha..still don't understand? Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is not the 'golden avatar' for Sri Vaishnavas or Tattvavadis. He was simply a normal Krishna devotee. Only Gaudiyas call him an avatar.

 

There are 6 different schools of thought in Vaishnavism. Sri Chaitanya's school is just one of those 6. No Sri Vaishnava will ever agree to a Gaudiya's views.

 

For instance, I respect Madhva. But he and Sri Ramanuja differed on Ananda Taratamya. I do not accept Madhva's view here. That's all.

 

cBrahma's incompetence and lack of comprehension is evident here.

 

The statement still stands. Don't lecture me. I know there are different types of Vaisnavas. Doesn't change a thing.

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

The statement still stands. Don't lecture me. I know there are different types of Vaisnavas. Doesn't change a thing.

 

Very good. Then, how can you say I am committing a 'sin' by saying Sri Chaitanya is wrong, when according to my school, he is not even an avatar?

 

Maybe cBrahma's atman was absent when Brahma the creator was handing out brains.

[cbrahma 0]

[yogesh 0]

 

Um, in case you haven't noticed, Sri Vaishnavas, Madhvas and associated sects do not consider Sri Chaitanya as an avatar of Krishna, or Achintya Bheda Abheda as true. We simply regard him as just another Vaishnava devotee.

 

Hopelessly behind, aren't you?

Of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu being an Avatar is found in the following Puranic Verses:

 

Adi-Puran and in the Narada Puran, the Supreme Person says:

 

aham eva dvija-srestho

nityam pracchanna-vigrahah

bhagavad-bhakta-rupena

lokam raksami sarvada

 

I shall advent in the form of a Brahmana devotee [aham eva dvija-srestho] and I shall hide my factual identity [prachanna vigrahah]. I shall deliver all the worlds [lokam raksami sarvada].

 

In the Upa-Puranas, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krishna speaks to Srila Vyasadeva:

 

aham eva kvacid brahman

sannyasa asramam asritah

hari bhaktim grahayami

kalau papa-hatan naran

 

O Brahmana, I occasionally take the Sannyas Asram [sannyasa asrama asritah] in an attempt to bring the fallen people of Kali Yuga to take up the path of Bhakti or devotional service to Lord Krishna [hari bhaktim grahayami].

 

In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Person says:

 

kalina dakyamananam

paritranaya tanu-bhrtam

janma prathama sandhyayam

karisyami dvijatisu

 

In the first part [prathama sandhya] of the age of Kali, I will come among the brahmanas [karisyami dvijatisu] to save the fallen souls, [paritranaya tanu-bhrtam] who are being burned by the troubles of the age of Kali [kalina dahyamananam].

 

In the Garuda-Purana, the Supreme Lord says:

 

aham purno bhavisyami

yuga-sandhyau visesatah

mayapure navadvipe

bhavisyami sachi sutah

 

I will take birth as the son of Sachi [bhavisyami sachi sutah], in Navadvip-Mayapur [mayapure navadvipe]. I will come in my complete spiritual form in the first part of Kali-Yuga.

 

In the Matsya-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead says:

 

mundo gaurah su-dirghangas

tri-srotas-tira-sambhavah

dayaluh kirtana-grahi

bhavisyami kalau-yuge

 

In the age of Kali, I shall advent [bhavisyami kalau yuge] where the three rivers meet [tri-srotas-tira-sambhavah]. I shall have a shaven head [mundah]. I shall have a golden complexion [gaurah]. I will be very kind and always chant the holy name of Krishna [dayaloh kirtana-grahi].

 

In the Vayu-Purana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead states:

 

suddho gaurah-su-dirghango

ganga-tira-samudbhavah

dayaluh-kirtana-grahi

bhavisyami kalau yuge

 

In the age of Kali-Yuga, I shall come [bhavisyami kalau yuge] in a place on the bank of the Ganges [ganga-tira-samudbhavah]. I will be very pure [suddhah], have a golden complexion [gaurah], and be very tall [su-dirghangah] and chant the holy names of Krishna.

 

These are just some of the quotes I could give you more:

 

So please come out of the Dark and bask in the golden radiation from Gauranga Mahaprabhu (Golden Avatar) the most mercyfull of all Avatars.

 

Hare Krsna/Krishna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[bija 0]

atharva-vede (Third Kanda, Brahma-vibhaga)

ito 'ham krita-sannyaso 'vatarishyami sa-guno nirvedo nishkamo bhu-girbanas tira-stho 'lakanandayah kalau catuh-sahasrabdhopari panca-sahasrabhyantare gaura-varno dirghangah sarva-lakshana-yukta isvara-prarthito nija-rasasvado bhakta-rupo misrakhyo vidita-yogah syam.

In the Atharva Veda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself says:

"Towards the end of the period between four-thousand to five-thousand years in Kali-yuga, I will descend on the earth as Gauranga, a golden-complexioned saintly brahmana in a place by the Ganges' shore and later become the crest-jewel of all sannyasis, exhibiting all My transcendental qualities including supreme renunciation and complete detachment from material desires. In the form of Lord Gauranga, I will display all the thirty-two bodily symptoms of a great personality with my arms extending to my knees. I will become my own devotee, very advanced in bhakti-yoga and teach the worship of Lord Krishna (Myself) by the chanting of My own holy names and relishing the mellows of My own devotional service. At that time only My most confidential devotees will be able to understand Me."

narada-pancaratre

bhakti-priyo bhakti-data, damodara ibhas-patih;

indra-darpa-haro 'nanto, nityananda-cid-atmakah.

In the Narada-pancaratra, Bala-Krishna-sahasra-nama-stotra, it is said:

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead is known by the names Nityananda, Bhakti-priya, Bhakti-data, Damodara, Ibhas-pati, Indra-darpa-hara, Ananta, Cid-atmaka,. ."

nrisimha-purane

satye daitya-kuladhi-nasa-samaye simhordhva-martyakritis

tretayam dasa-kandharam paribhavan rameti namakritih

gopalan paripalayan vraja-pure bharam haran dvapare

gaurangah priya-kirtanah kali-yuge chaitanya-nama prabhuh

In the Nrisimha Purana it is said:

"The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who appeared in Satya-yuga as Lord Nrisimhadeva in the form of half-man and half-lion to destroy Hiranyakasipu, the king of the demons, and who appeared in Treta-yuga as Lord Ramacandra to kill the great ten-headed demon Ravana, and who appeared in the Dvapara-yuga for protecting and maintaining the cowherd men and women of Vrindavana and removing the burden of the earth, will appear again in the Kali-yuga in a golden form. He will fully relish the chanting of His own holy names and His name will be Lord Gauranga."

kaleh prathama-sandhyayam, gaurango 'ham mahi-tale;

bhagirathi-tate ramye, bhavishyami saci-sutah.

In the Padma Purana, the Supreme Lord affirms:

"In the first sandhya of Kali-yuga, I will appear as Gauranga on the earth in a beautiful place by the shore of the Ganges. I will become the son of Sacidevi and My complexion will be golden."

[bija 0]

[7] svetasvataropanishadi (3.12)

mahan prabhur vai purushah sattvasyaisha pravartakah

su-nirmalam imam praptim isano jyotir avyayah

In the Svetasvatara Upanishad it is said:

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead who is supreme enjoyer is indeed Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who promulgates the transcendental platform of pure goodness through the process of hari-nama-sankirtana. This Supreme Lord is the source of all spiritual purity. Just to be in touch with Him is to be in contact with the indestructible brahmajyoti.”

[8] chandogyopanishadi (Eighth Chapter)

harih om. atha yad idam asmin brahmapure daharam pundarikam vesma daharo ’sminn antarakasas tasmin yad-antas tad anveshtavyam tad vava vijijnasitavyam iti.

In the Chandogya Upanishad 8.1.1, Navadvipa (the abode of Lord Chaitanya) is hinted as the city of Brahmapura:

Hari. Om. In the very heart of this spiritual city (brahmapura) is a lotus abode (vesma). The internal part of that abode should be sought. This is the part one should desire to understand.

[Comment: The verse is furthur explained by Thakura Bhaktivinoda as follows:

atra brahma-puram nama pundarikam yad ucyate

tad evashta-dalam padma-sannibham puram adbhutam

In the Chandogya Upanishad, that place is a transcendental spiritual city (brahmapura) which is surrounded by a wonderful eight-petal lotus flower where each petal represents an island.”

tan-madhye daharam sakshat mayapuram itiryate

tatra vesma bhagavatas chaitanyasya paratmanah

tasmin yas tv antarakaso hy antar-dvipah sa ucyate

In the center of that eight-petalled lotus-city is the ninth island (whorl of the lotus) called Antardvipa, and in the heart of Antardvipa is Shridhama Mayapur (Yogapitha), which is directly the abode of Lord Shri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

[bija 0]

The most important Shri Chaitanya Upanishad—Atharva Veda comprises of the following 19 verses:

SRI CAITANYA UPANIShAD

(i) atha pippaladah samit-panir bhagavantam brahmanam upasanno. bhagavan me subham kim atra cakshasveti.

Carrying firewood in his hands, Pippalada humbly approached his supremely powerful father, Lord Brahma, and asked: “O my Lord, please instruct me on how I may attain an auspicious life.”

(ii) sa hovaca.

bhuya eva tapasa brahmacaryena sasvad ramasva mano vaseti.

Lord Brahma replied: “Be satisfied by always remaining celibate and performing austerities and very carefully control the activities of the mind.”

(iii) sa tatha bhutva bhuya enam upasadyaha.

bhagavan kalau papac channah prajah katham mucyerann iti.

Pippalada followed these instructions, and after having become pure in his own heart and mind, he again approached his father and asked: “O my Lord, please tell me how the living entities in Kali-yuga, who are completely covered by sin, may be delivered.”

(iv) ko va devata ko va mantro bruhiti.

“Which form of the Lord should be the object of their worship, and what mantra should they chant in order to become delivered? Kindly inform me.”

(v) sa hovaca rahasyam te vadishyami.

jahnavi-tire navadvipe golokakhye dhamni govindo dvi-bhujo gaurah sarvatma maha-purusho mahatma maha-yogi tri-gunatitah sattva-rupo bhaktim loke kasyatiti. tad ete sloka bhavanti.

Lord Brahma replied: “Listen carefully, for I shall give you a very confidential description of what will happen in the Kali-yuga. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda who is the all-pervading Supersoul residing in the hearts of all living entities, who is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the master of all mystics and the supreme enjoyer, who is beyond the touch of the three modes of material nature and whose form is transcendental, will appear again in the Kali age. Appearing as His own greatest devotee, the Lord will assume a two-armed form with a golden complexion in His abode of Goloka Vrindavana manifested on the bank of the Ganges at Navadvipa, West Bengal. He will disseminate pure devotional service in the whole world. I will now describe this incarnation of the Lord in the following verses.”

[bija 0]

There is much more references here...what to say of the philosophical truth of Lord Gauranga as an avatara as taught by the acaryas such as Sri Rupa...

 

Nityananda Gauranga in the Vedas - click here

 

 

Why GaurangaKrishna: The most deepest, intimate, esoteric and confidential form of Lord Krishna is the divine form of Lord Gauranga. In this form, He Himself tries to fulfill His desires which are innermost in His heart of understanding Shrimati Radha's pure love for Him. So even though Lord Krishna and Lord Gauranga are one and the same Person, still Lord Krishna becomes even more perfectly complete when He accepts the golden form of Lord Gauranga imbued with Shrimati Radha's love. There is no other thing as important to Him than His pastimes with His own pleasure potency Shrimati Radha. Thus, there is nothing more important to Him than His acceptance of the golden form of Lord Gaura with Shrimati Radha's mood and complexion. Therefore, when we say Lord Gauranga Krishna or Lord Gaura Krishna or Lord Gaura Hari or Lord Krishna Chaitanya, we please Him even more than by saying Lord Krishna, Lord Hari etc. because we remind Him of His most intimate desires, exchanges and pastimes which are the most important to Him. "Lord Gauranga Krishna" literally means the golden-limbed Radha-bhavi Lord Krishna. Thus it is an even more complete representation of the Absolute Truth which includes His hladini shakti Shrimati Radharani.

 

Stating Gauranga Krishna is not a rasabhasa or an improper mixing of mellows. It has been used to address the Lord by His Associates and Acharyas. His Name of Gaura Hari was given to Him by His eternal associates in Navadvipa during His birth and His Sannyasa Name of Shri Krishna Chaitanya was announced from the sky to His sannyasa guru Shrila Keshava Bharati. Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada used His Name of "Gaura Krishna" very often and he would sign his letters with "In the service of Gaura Krishna", in the end. (srila gurudeva)

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

There is much more references here

...what to say of the philosophical truth of Lord Gauranga as an avatara as taught by the acaryas such as Sri Rupa...

 

None of those references are authentic, or can be found. You must understand that I respect Sri Chaitanya as a great devotee, but his avatarhood is strictly a Gaudiya belief. These references are not in scripture, but have been fashioned by his devotees.

 

I could similarly argue about the Philosophical truth of Sri Ramanuja as an avatara. In fact, Sri Ramanuja was also golden in color, was always accompanied by his associates (700 sanyasis and 12000 grihastas) and had the name of the Lord on His lips (Om Namo Narayanaya & Prabandham). Sri Vaishnavas believe he is Adi Sesha, but that it simply restricted to our own sastra like Divya Prabandham, etc.

 

We don't ask anybody else to believe Sri Ramanuja's divinity.

[bija 0]

 

We don't ask anybody else to believe Sri Ramanuja's divinity. by bija

Yes. But the simple hearted Gaudiya never lowers the station of Sri Ramanuja (or christ) in any one's eyes. Such demeaning is possibly vaisnava aparadha (or opening a door for others to commit such). Such great souls and compassionate messengers of God are the founders of your sampradaya and a movement that has guided many toward the path of God (christianity). You can tell a tree by its fruit!

 

Whereas I have seen in your posts no respect for Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, or respect for the faith (often fledgling) of the Gaudiya who rests his surrender there. Or I have not seen your ability so much, to nurture the simple faith of the Gaudiya that Gauranga is God. But rather a immaturity in this regard.

 

Then again none of us are perfect (I am not)...so there is room for all things in this world. It is easy to be the critic, but takes much greater intelligence to see the divine purpose of all things even in the darkest corners. And even the Divine Purpose of why Sri Krsna has expressed (and allowed in His master plan) the ability to be called Gauranga (Sri Sri Radha-Krsna combined).

 

 

Why GaurangaKrishna: The most deepest, intimate, esoteric and confidential form of Lord Krishna is the divine form of Lord Gauranga. In this form, He Himself tries to fulfill His desires which are innermost in His heart of understanding Shrimati Radha's pure love for Him. So even though Lord Krishna and Lord Gauranga are one and the same Person, still Lord Krishna becomes even more perfectly complete when He accepts the golden form of Lord Gauranga imbued with Shrimati Radha's love. There is no other thing as important to Him than His pastimes with His own pleasure potency Shrimati Radha. Thus, there is nothing more important to Him than His acceptance of the golden form of Lord Gaura with Shrimati Radha's mood and complexion. Therefore, when we say Lord Gauranga Krishna or Lord Gaura Krishna or Lord Gaura Hari or Lord Krishna Chaitanya, we please Him even more than by saying Lord Krishna, Lord Hari etc. because we remind Him of His most intimate desires, exchanges and pastimes which are the most important to Him. "Lord Gauranga Krishna" literally means the golden-limbed Radha-bhavi Lord Krishna. Thus it is an even more complete representation of the Absolute Truth which includes His hladini shakti Shrimati Radharani.

 

Stating Gauranga Krishna is not a rasabhasa or an improper mixing of mellows. It has been used to address the Lord by His Associates and Acharyas. His Name of Gaura Hari was given to Him by His eternal associates in Navadvipa during His birth and His Sannyasa Name of Shri Krishna Chaitanya was announced from the sky to His sannyasa guru Shrila Keshava Bharati. Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada used His Name of "Gaura Krishna" very often and he would sign his letters with "In the service of Gaura Krishna", in the end. (srila gurudeva)

 

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

Yes. But the simple hearted Gaudiya never lowers the station of Sri Ramanuja (or christ) in any one's eyes

 

I'd like to know how many traditional Vaishnavas you have met, who have spoken of Jesus highly. There is no proof that Jesus was a Vaishnava, and that's that. So, please stop showing your immaturity in bringing this nonsense to traditional Vaishnavism.

 

Bhaktivinoda Thakura, ironically, did demean Sri Ramanuja and even Sri Madhva. According to him, Sri Chaitanya told them to keep some things secret and preach imperfect philosophies until the former himself came.

 

However, I have never disrespected Sri Chaitanya. His Krishna Bhakti, and the way he rescued many people from nastika matams during his time was certainly a great thing to do. The thing is, no Non-Gaudiya accepts his divinity.

 

In order to prove a founder's divinity, you will need to establish that his philosophy is the supreme purport of Veda and all other philosophies are inadequate. Debate is the only solution.

 

 

 

a movement that has guided many toward the path of God (christianity).

 

A religion that is based on personal experience, lacks knowledge of anaditva, of Lord Vishnu, etc. is a Nastika religion as per the definition of all Vaishnavas.

 

Mahavira, the jain teacher was more non-violent and compassionate than even Vaishnavas. We don't glorify him as a great teacher.

[bija 0]

 

In order to prove a founder's divinity, you will need to establish that his philosophy is the supreme purport of Veda and all other philosophies are inadequate. by dark

No. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu never desired to prove religion such as Islam was inadequate...but instead showed that bhakti is the essence of all religion...and that the goal is love of God. Therefore Sri Ramanuja was never inadequate (but bona-fide and exalted).

 

Similarly, the faith of a christian or muslim is not inadequate if they understand such truth. And like all of us...spiritual life is a progression...and an eternal journey. All souls are vaisnava...they just need to realize it (that is the truth of Sri Caitanya).

[bija 0]

 

I'd like to know how many traditional Vaishnavas you have met, who have spoken of Jesus highly. There is no proof that Jesus was a Vaishnava, and that's that. So, please stop showing your immaturity in bringing this nonsense to traditional Vaishnavism. by dark

 

I have met three through transcendenatl sound (vani): Sila Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and Srila Bhaktivinoda...who confirm by their deep realization of the essence of Sri Gauranga's divine mission, that Jesus was a simple hearted vaisnava.

 

And as you often say yourself dark, 'it does not matter if you accept this or not'. Why?

 

Because you are a Sri Vaisnava, and that is glorious in itself.

 

Hari Hari!

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

No. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu never desired to prove religion such as Islam was inadequate

 

I am stating the basic Vedantic premise. If you want to prove your founder is Krishna, you must then accept that whatever he says will never contradict Vedas. So, logically, if you prove his philosophy to be the supreme purport, his divinity is accepted.

 

First of all, Sri Chaitanya never said 'Love of God is all that matters'. The Bhagavad Gita clearly denounces the notion that 'all paths are same'.

 

Sri Chaitanya said, 'Love of Krishna is all that matters'. Otherwise, a straight question - can you tell me what was the need for Vaishnavas to debate with a personal god-loving sect like the Shaivas?

 

Krishna is god of all, but all religions do not become authentic by default. There are certain rules and regulations prescribed in the sastras for bhaktas to follow. Christianity, Islam and other abrahamic/pagan/egyptian/greek religions violate every one of them.

 

This means, unless it can be conclusively proved that Jesus was referring to Vishnu as 'god' and not Shiva, Allah, Yahweh, etc...you cannot say Christianity is an authentic path.

 

 

I have met three through transcendenatl sound (vani): Sila Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and Srila Bhaktivinoda.

 

A great bhakta does not necessarily have the most perfect philsophy. That is why I have patiently explained - Always verify your guru's words with sastra.

 

Srila Prabhupada says - Worship Krishna. Perfect, according to Vedas.

 

Srila Prabhupada says - Worship Jesus. Not true according to Vedas, so reject this. But of course, retain your bhakti to Srila Prabhupada because of his status, despite this deviation from Vedanta.

[bija 0]

 

Sri Chaitanya said, 'Love of Krishna is all that matters'. Otherwise, a straight question - can you tell me what was the need for Vaishnavas to debate with a personal god-loving sect like the Shaivas? by dark

A linear definition or graph is never adequate to desribe the Absolute Truth. The spiritual universe of the Gaudiya contains all, just as the Summum Bonum does.

 

The Gaudiya accepts Sri Krsna as the Supreme Personality...because of the sweetness of the rasa the devotee feels in that relationship. Such debate is very different from the mundane religionists argument, when he says...my God is the greatest, my understanding of God is the greatest. And a linear or graph presentation.

 

You should read Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrta - click here by Santana Goswami, to understand a master approach as to why the Gaudiya accepts sweetness as the highest rasa. And also to view the inclusive grand cosmology where worshippers of Narayana, Shiva and other manifestation of God, are all fully satisfied in their chosen (eternal) rasa. For they have each realized their original, true nature. Where the devotee finds fullest satisfaction...there she remains (in the conception of highest truth). In the Absolute Truth mundane relativity is of maya.

 

Sweetness has been described in their heart felt self as the highest...because of the sweetness. A devotee will never minimize another fully realized devotees rasa. But they have chosen to use gradation to practically show the simple beauty of madhurya. That is the only reason (while in this world) they have chosen to use relative terms. In this material world words fall short of the Glory of Truth!

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

A linear definition or graph is never adequate to desribe the Absolute Truth. The the universe of the Gaudiya contains all, just as the Summum Bonum does.

 

Similarly, a Madhva would say his sampradaya contains all, a Ramanujite would say his sampradaya contains all, etc. Although we are all Vaishnavas, all of our philosophies cannot be correct simultaneously.

 

Hence, follow Vyasa's injunction, 'Inquire into the Absolute' and debate. It is healthy. Coming from an abrahamic background, where things are accepted based on 'personal experience' an 'faith', you do not understand that tradition of polemics in Vedanta. Destroy false knowledge.

 

 

The Gaudiya accepts Sri Krsna as the Supreme Personality...because of the sweetness of the rasa the devotee feels in that relationship.

 

Good. Where does Jesus come into this? If Theist, you or cBrahma did this truly, renouncing other Abrahamic nonsense, I wouldn't be arguing with you.

 

What proof that Christianity was founded by a Krishna bhakta? Why couldn't Jesus have been an advaitin who was simply talking about Saguna Brahman worship? Or a Shaivite? Or a Shakta?

 

And Vaishnava acharyas (Gaudiyas included) have condemned Shaivism, Shaktism, Advaita, etc. as invalid. Dangerous to assume Jesus was a Vaishnava in the absence of proof.

 

 

Such debate is very different from the mundane religionists argument, when he says...my God is the greatest, my understanding of God is the greatest. And a linear or graph presentation.

 

Krishna Himself says, 'I am greater than Shiva', which is a blow to Shaivites, as Shiva is 'their god' and Krishna is 'our god'.

 

So, again I ask you this question - are you aware of the tradition of debate in Vedanta?

 

 

You should read Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrta - click here by Santana Goswami, to understand a master approach as to why the Gaudiya accepts sweetness as the highest rasa. And also to view the inclusive grand cosmology where worshippers of Narayana, Shiva and other manifestation of God, are all fully satisfied in their chosen (eternal) rasa. For they have each realized their original, true nature.

 

Narayana is Krishna, and non-different from Him. Shiva is a Jivatma as per the teachings of Sri Ramanuja, Sri Madhva.

 

Worship of Shiva leads only to better births. Worship of Krishna/Narayana leads to moksha. Vaishnavas have always maintained this distinction.

 

Vedas unambiguously teach that Narayana is the highest Brahman, and hence to say Narayana is a 'plenary expansion'...well, that is just a Gaudiya teaching.

 

Once again, provide sastric pramanas to show your point and not sampradayic works.

[bija 0]

 

Similarly, a Madhva would say his sampradaya contains all, a Ramanujite would say his sampradaya contains all, etc. Although we are all Vaishnavas, all of our philosophies cannot be correct simultaneously. by dark

 

Yes they can Prabhu.

[bija 0]

Debate prabhu is your qualification...due to the good fortune of being born in the sacred land of the ganga. I was not raised with such an exalted heritage...and am not qualified as you are. In this area your sastric knowledge is vast...and I am your servant.

[Dark Warrior 0]

 

Yes they can Prabhu.

 

Once again, blatant ignorance of facts, prabhu.

 

Sri Ramanujacharya says there is no gradation of souls. Sri Madhva says Gradation exists.

 

Sastras are very clear in that there is only one solution. The path to right knowledge is like walking on a razor's edge.

 

That is why debates have been going on. There cannot be multiple philosophies in Vedas, or multiple religions that lead to same goal. Although Vaishnavism in general is correct, and any sampradaya can lead to moksha, only ONE philosophy is enshrined in Vedas.

 

Try to understand.

 

 

Debate prabhu is your qualification...due to the good fortune of being born in the sacred land of the ganga. I was not raised with such an exalted heritage...or am not qualified. In this area your sastric knowledge is vast...and I am your servant.

 

Sarcasm ill befits you. First off, I was born in Dubai, not India. Despite being an Indian. Secondly, India is sanctified because of its tapas, and because of the Lord's avatars. An American Vaishnava will get moksha, for that matter.

 

So, there is no talk of being 'unqualified'. Make the effort, learn the scripture. Then you will realise that there is but one path to the goal, and that is Hari Bhakti. Any religion which doesn't accept or acknowledge Vishnu will not lead to Moksha.

 

Of course, this is just what ALL true Vaishnavas believe. You are free to reject Vaishnavism altogether and say you are a Universalist. Vishnu won't mind.

[bija 0]

 

Where does Jesus come into this? by dark

 

Jesus: Dynamic or Static?

Christian: Do you think that Jesus had awareness of Krsna as the Personality of Godhead?

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: When his inner attainment is most closely detected, then we are

bound to say that in the course of his eternal life, there is some possibility of his achieving

Krsna.

Christian: I don't understand.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Is Jesus stagnant or progressive? Where he has reached, is that finished

forever, or is he dynamic?

Christian: Christians will say that he has full knowledge.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: So, is he stagnant there, finally fixed? Is that Jesus' position? Do the

bishops say that his position is final? Does he have a progressive life? Or is Jesus alone barred

from making further progress? Is he a member of the dynamic world? Or the stagnant world? So,

this is the nature of the infinite. Being finite, we are going to deal with the infinite? That is our

ludicrous tendency. It is ludicrous for us to deal with the infinite. Why is Krsna considered to be

the Absolute Truth? This you should inquire about in a scientific way, step by step. As I have

recommended, you should go on reading about that in the Sri Krsna Samhita, and the Brhad

Bhagavatamrta. You should try to follow very minutely the dynamic development of theism as it

is presented there.